The History of Image Comics (So Much Damage) | Part 3: Trouble in Paradise | SYFY WIRE
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- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2017
- With Image having taken the comics industry by storm in the early 90s, troubles and tensions amongst the founders led to a period of turmoil. Until the undead stepped into help.
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More About Image Comics: Image Comics is an American comic book publisher. It was founded in 1992 by several high-profile illustrators as a venue where comics creators could publish their material without giving up the copyrights to the characters they created, as creator-owned properties. It was immediately successful, and remains one of the largest comic book publishers in North America. Its output was originally dominated by superhero and fantasy series from the studios of the Image partners, but now includes comics in many genres by numerous independent creators. Its best-known series include Spawn, Savage Dragon, Witchblade, The Darkness, Invincible, The Walking Dead, Saga, and Chew.
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I love Valentino's call to open Image to stories which weren't superhero comics. It was a wonderful decision.
It made image what it is today imo. The walking dead and saga are the biggest examples of this.
I want a movie based on these guys journey and creation of Image Comics. Like The Social Network
Optimatt Prime great idea! But let’s hope someone like director David Fincher takes charge of it.
No thanks. The Social Network was built on bullshit. They'd end up twisting the facts like in The Social Network.
Steven Yuen as Jim Lee
Will Poulter as Rob Liefeld
Ben Barnes as Todd MacFarlane
Jordan Peters that would be great, let's hope someone makes the movie
DAMN great idea!
Dude they are like a literal rock band. They have a couple #1 hits for the first few years then they break up to start their own thing.
It's astounding how "speculators" don't understand that a comic that sells a million copies ends up with 900,000 of them in bargain bins within a few years.
Alright, if theres ever a bopic about this event, we can all agree mathew mcconuaghey as todd mcfarlane right?
Omg yes
right on!
@@aliendude2875
Daniel Dae Kim and Josh Holloway (both from Lost) would look good as Jim Lee and Marc Silvestri. David Fincher would direct the movie!
And you just get sense that McConuaghey would be TOTALLY game for it too!
P.S. And he’d act the FUCK out of it too! I can already see how he’d play it.
charger23us: No. Wrong. Bale Begins would play him
Why is it when they show Todd’s interview segments it feels like dude is behind a glass wall lol. Is this prison? Lol
🤣🤣
FINALLY an interview with Erik Larsen, longest running creator/writer/artist (on a full color book) for Savage Dragon.
isnt that spawn?
That would be quite an achievement if it wasn't dogsh*t.
this is my 3rd time watching this series. its so good
Todd, on Spawn's film adaptation: "we were ahead of the curve"
sure. it's not like The Crow came out 3 years earlier, or anything.
And the Superman Movie in 1978.
And the batman movie in 89
RIP Michael Turner :'(
It's really sad he died so young. Michael Turner is one of the greatest comicbook artists and creators ever, pure talent and everyone says how nice he was.
Simon I had the honor of meeting him! And he was beyond nice to meet and talk too.he is my favorite artist to this day and I have two original sketches by him they are my holy grails.I will be doing a tribute video to him in July showing books my sketches and a few stories.So if your interested in that please give me a sub!
Mike was the first artist who got popular exclusively from Image Comics. Witchblade and Fathom. Amazing at drawing eyes. Met him at a convention, he signed everything I gave him and he showed me how he drew eyes and I asked him about some scenes I liked in Witchblade. I actually think he was better at drawing fantasy characters like Witchblade, Fathom, Soulfire and Darkness over the traditional superheroes. I thought his Marvel/DC art was good, just not as good as his Image stuff. His prime was Witchblade 4-25, I still hold it as one of my all time favorite interior art
He died? Holy shit rip
He died the day before i met my idol still to this day i wonder what if
This is the problem with most business-minded people, they're impatient and can't seem to think more than a couple years ahead. People bought #1 issues and what? Expected that they'd be rare and valuable 2 years later? Early Superman comics are rare and valuable because they're how old? 50 years roughly? Business-minded people can't think past sales within a year, and that's perhaps the biggest problem with businesses life expectancy.
It was shortsighted of course. Original Action Comics were rare because the books were considered lightweight and disposable. People would buy them, read them, and toss them out. The few fluke books that anybody saved became valuable much later. By the 1980s, people started buying #1 issues with hope that they'd be valuable someday, but the kind of people who would want these enough to pay money were the same people who'd already bought them when new. For collectibles to beco,e valuable, most of them have to be thrown away.
It's this idiotuc "startup" mentality.
This would actually make a good movie.
i wish they made documentaries about image nowadays, the comics are much better now
I loved the early stuff when I was a kid. But I much more prefer series like Madman, Saga, Monstress and Paper Girls to anything from the beginning.
Dante Crottogini careful there is a lot of sad people that will be triggered by your preference.
You should check out the Image panel that was posted online. It’s the founders (Minus Jim Lee) telling stories and talking about Image. It was fuckin hilarious!
I agree, the revival of the Prophet comics were really awesome!
Deadly Class, Black Science, Kickass, Invincible, The Walking Dead, Velvet, such good stuuf
There is enough blame to go around for the comic collapse, including the greed of collectors.
Totally, lets not forget Marvel's acquisition of Heroes World in 94. That's the reason why Diamond is a monopoly today.
Zero Cool +
And the reason comic shops take all of the financial risks of the comics industry. I have a friend who owns a comics shop. They are required to purchase a set number of each Marvel title every order. Marvel produces something like 76 titles a month. If their customers only buy 50 of those titles, they still have to order a set number of the other 26 even if they never sale. And none of the companies have a return policy. So if a book doesn't sale, the comics shop eats the loss, not the comics publisher.
Another thing. The sales numbers Marvel posts are sales to comic shops, not to actual fans/readers. That's how Marvel's sales, projections, and stocks are falsely inflated. Take away the mandatory order amounts and the Marvel Comics division (the movies are a separate entity) would fold within a reporting quarter. Half of those 76 monthly titles sale 10,000 to 20,000 copies a month. Not the hundreds of thousands to millions that Marvel and Image sold in the 90's. And those are locked in guaranteed sales. Marvel has the local shops over a barrel - buy our entire line or don't sell any Marvel at all.
Maybe some enterprising young filmmaker would make a documentary exposing the dark underbelly of the comics industry. Show how ruthless these companies really are. The comic shops I know are resorting to other avenues besides back issues sales just to stay afloat, like being an internet cafe, coffee shop, selling souvenirs, collectibles, etc. It's a shame.
Big difference between collectors and speculators.
James Ooten : If I owned a Comic Shop, I would in that case sell DC & IMAGE Comic Books! So screw sjw marvel. They're done anyway, cuz now Disney is pimping them quite well via the movie industry. Same with Music, nowadays. If you wanna hear Great Music, don't listen to the radio. Also, if I had a Restaurant / Club Bar, I would never play fake mumble (c)rappers & talentless autotune singers. I'd rather play NEW EDITION & WU-TANG! Maybe someday???? 👌😜✌
@lemisanthrope well, even back in 93 or so i saw people hoarding and saving because collectors got in everyones ear about "one day that comic will be worth $10,000!".. So they saturated the market. That was the beginning.
Wow this documentary kinda shows that although short term its a great way to get rich for the artists & creators. Without a central leader, human nature is going to tear everything down within a few years. 7 different personalities trying to hold everything together is like a Band with 7 members. It's so hard for them to stay together and this is worse because each member is an island unto himself.
And what has happened with Wildstorm since Lee sold it to DC? They pretty much buried it.
They bought it to get him, not because it was any good.
I think the collapse started with the 1-800 call in number for the death of Robin. After those sales, publishers were willing to do ANYTHING, including terrible art, bad stories and multiple/worthless covers leading to the death of the biggest superhero, Superman. At that point it was just like the baseball card industry: too much product, not enough quality and readers expecting two million copies of a $2 comic to be worth millions someday. The industry still hasn’t recovered or learned their lessons. God bless 80’s and early 90’s comics.
Seems like Valentino was the real visionary at image despite not having the best books early on.
Smart move by Jim Lee to sell to dc though.
The only series I personally really liked from Image was Shadow Hawk. It felt like Valentino had a more developed story than the rest of the artists.
Spawn Animated Series...YEP!!
It was amazing
4:36 "it did not go over well with everyone at image" it didn't go over well with anyone because "heroes reborn" was the absolute worst
There's still a ton of variants being released for titles and hardly a way to know about them ahead of time until they're released or on eBay. Those are the ones that are worth anything these days and when they try and sell those variants at a much higher markup on release date is such a joy killer for a regular fan. Now all of a sudden you need to have a hefty bank account to purchase these limited run variants that only one store on the opposite coast is carrying. Definitely killed my join of collecting and is why I stopped.
I like how I'm waiting for the video to play and an ad comes on for DC doing Death of Superman AGAIN in an animated movie and the first thing Jim Valentino mentions is DC killing Superman. What a weird night.
The story of Image's formative years would make a really interesting book if done well.
marc silverster is cool
Who else wants a documentary on theories about the brotherhood of them
Wildcats was my favorite image comic
2:06 - actually DC started it. Image did it way, way more. DC started it. Image went nuts. Marvel went bust.
Now Marvel are riding high. All image have as a long lived success - The Walking Dead.
The only problem Image had... Rob Liefeld.
Rob Liefelds Captain America was just a tragic joke.
*4:40* It was tough for folks like Todd McFarlane - who put their money where there mouth was and have been successful.
You can understand the concerns and sadness of Todd and the others at Image is that they had their partners moving to the competition.
I still have two copies of Lee's Wildcats number 1
loved witchblade comics , yeah i even enjoyed the tv series
The Voice of Overtkill in the animated Series and his oneliners...
Perfect !!!
- But I will be keeping the Heart... -
Tony : ..eh...Why...?
- Dinner....
Jim Lee selling Wildstorm to DC, was a bad move, except for Lee and his bank account
Wow, I didn't know that. I stopped collecting Image comics in the late 90s but still kept collecting stuff from Dreamwave and eventually IDW. Still, I guess he probably realized that there wasn't much else he could do creatively with the characters and since the market has imploded significantly, it was the best thing to do. Still, at least he got to create some cool characters that he could call his own for quite a few years but can still revisit if he wanted to.
Which is petty much what matters.
If anything jim lee was the smarter of them all lol besides a former image guy takes control of dc n todd mcfarlane his own company ' I see that a win win. ,
Either Rob Liefeld has a sinus infection or the dude is snorting lines before interviews.
I noticed a Starslayer issue in there; at no time was it ever published by Image. Mike Grell did publish Shaman's Tears and Maggie the Cat there; but, not Starslayer. That was published at Pacific and First Comics, with a reprint of the original 7 issues reprinted by Valiant's Windjammer imprint.
Also, Lady Death in part 2. Did Image ever have anything to do with her?
Rob Liefeld should really tone down the cocaine...
They told you with the name of their company that pictures were way more important than words.
I always remember the Witchblade tv series
...and it NEVER gets the props it deserves, whether people liked it or not (it was a hit n miss show quality wise) Indie comic based, female led... applause to all involved. i have a soft spot for it as someone who worked in the industry at the time.
what have we heard recently ? "Wonder Woman WONDER WOMAN!"
Film ? Sure. But she's NOT the only female character to do her own show / film.
...but people have selective memories and media will be media and always be selective in the Story/ narrative they present.
Anyone remember Birds Of Prey t.v series ?
I never watched it, but I could check it out one day.
I do. Ian Nottingham was a freaking beast. While the show was hit-and-miss, it was still entertaining that first season. Sadly, the quality nosedived the second season, which wasn’t helped by having a leading lady who was an alcoholic (I remember seeing her on Politically Incorrect one time, and you could tell she was drunk off her ass. Bill noticed it, too, and basically ignored her the rest of the show).
Witchblade self destructed due to Yancy Butler's substance abuse issues. It produced only 24 episodes. It did not have 3 seasons on two networks or a history that stretched back over 50 years, or was part of other media and merchandising. That is why you hear Wonder Woman, not Witchblade. And no, you don't hear Birds of Prey as it was cancelled midway through its first, rather poor season. By contrast, the Sci-Fi Channel's Black Scorpion produced 22, low budget episodes; but, you don't hear about it, either.
Hey, yeah I'm looking for that. Series made me start getting the comic
Can't wait for the new SPAWN. It's gonna be dope.
"About a year into it, the books started shipping kind of late..." Subtract roughly a year, and you're closer to the truth. Only a few books came out anywhere near on-schedule from the start. How long did it take for Portacio to produce anything at all?
Well, they cover the Portacio part in the previous videos. That was due to his sister's bad health and I think death. But yeah, right from the start the books were always off schedule. I think that was was hurt them the most. I was 12-13 at the time and in my prime comic-book collecting years. I absolutely loved Image comics, but never knowing when to expect new issues really soured me on them. If only they could have waited a bit longer, maybe made sure they had a system in place and even a couple issues ready to go. It's fun to think about what could have been.
the legendary brotherhood of backstabbing at the first opportunity!
What about the Maxx ?
Makes me glad I recently snagged Powers vol. 1, Issues 1, 3, 4 and 5, for a buck apiece. 😀
Michael Turner? Fantastic artist.
Great video
Love darker image still got my wildcats number 1 and spawn,youngblood 1.
Can someone explain if it was really a legality thing in regards to the voting, or just that voting could create conflict amongst the remaining stakeholders.
I had no idea Dave Grohl drew comics.
HTSoon you forgot Danny Devito and Matt Damon
They should bring back which blade as a tv show
@"we were all crazy back then".
You're only human Marc! It was a frenzy time
So sad Powers didnt make it as a show
Same. I enjoyed what they did for the most part.
Didn't Sony make a TV show out of it?
Yeah, that's what we're referring to. By "make it" @JokerL1000 means it didn't become popular and didn't make it past season 2. It's an idiom.
There is a Powers tv series on the PlayStation streaming service. The first season and maybe the second is out on Dvd.
So agreed, they always cancel the good shows with massive potential and keep the crap ones on TV instead!
Why is there a Starslayer and Lady Death comic pictured in the mix? They were not Image.
I like how the guys at Image didn't want to exist in a competitive environment. They all just wanted to be the next Marvel and holding other artists under their thumbs. I don't blame them, but they ignorant of it.
the return of Superman was very good story ....
Honestly, and I'm not sure where this stands amongst the (geek) community because I've never really talked to old heads about this, but I much preferred the Death of Superman arc. It drew me in at least with the weight of the events from Superman's perspective. He was desperate in saving everyone with everything in his being; he was the only hope Earth had in stopping Doomsday. Tbh it's the only time I've enjoyed reading Superman because he truly felt human (to me) in that story as opposed to this all powerful god
I used to loooooooove Image. Wish their was a Pitt movie.
image is stillpretty good my guy
Shoutout to foodone!!
Legendary
ooooo my childhood
and I love Larsen for Being Erik Larsen... Superman comment. XD haha
What about Michael Turner..??
Its and sad and a pity Gen 13 wasn't shown in there with the other Image Comic animations. But then again it was owned by Jim Lee who took his Wildstorm Imprint from Image over to DC comics. Had Jim Lee not moved until much later on, Gen 13 would've also been mentioned in there. Even if its under the Wildstorm banner it originally got started out at Image however. I feel Gen 13's unfairly left out here for some odd reason! Anybody else feel the same way?!
I always felt Gen 13 had the most originality and the best chance to make it as a film. I was on vacation once and went into some dollar store to get a replacement pair of sunglasses. On a novel rack I found 3 Gen 13 novels, which I snatched up. I never was able to get a consistent run of Gen 13, but I'm proud to have added those novels to my collection.
I know right, no mention of Gen13 and J Scott Campbell, in this documentary.
10:57
Prom night!
Rob is the special one
Jesus Christ. MARTIN SHEEN was in the Spawn movie? I must have repressed the memory...
Just like his victims
Am I the only one who thinks Mark Sylvestri kinda looks like Dave Lombardo from Slayer?????
You'd think with all their success after Marvel, they'd of been no cracks at Image, very sad.
What happened to Travis Charist?
Seems like he has trouble doing comics nowadays. He is know to be a VERY slow artist. Last time I heard from him he was assigned to do a Metabarons graphic novel with very generous, long deadlines, but even so he screwed up and was fired. Very sad.
Thanks
Freak force and storm watch was the only two books I've read from image o can't forget wildcats
Mr. untamed I really liked Wildcats.
Casey Pierre-louis me too favorite cartoon as a kid .but I just don't understand why people trashed these comic books ? Everything wasn't great but everything in marvel and DC wasn't great also.
The 90s was bad for the big 2 in my opinion an these comic's brought some new fan's over in my opinion.
Casey Pierre-louis alot of stuff he came back with from Cali we was getting like real late then it's not too many comic books shops in my area so I would lose my mind when come to my house or he would show me at recess.say bro I miss them days I swear
I think everything is gonna go digital, this generation don't even read news papers so its would make sense for not to many shops being around anymore, I wish that their did have a live action Wildcats movies though the stories with them an wildstorm was so towards the big screen.
I like image
I have never seen witchblade the tv show. I seen the anime but witchblade the anime is based off of the tv show in 2001 and 2002. Wow.
back in 93 or so i saw people hoarding and saving and suckimg up all kinds of comics because collectors got in everyones ear about "one day that comic will be worth $10,000!".. So they saturated the market. That was the beginning. All all those high gloss cheap variant covers . The shops were no longer us kids it was guys in suits and older people clearing the shelves...and the companys hyping EVERY SINGLE new release. Dead.
cool
Marvel poluting the water as always. 💆🏻
11:00 BIGGEST UNANSWERED QUESTION: where were their prom dates?
Still hope for a witchblade movie without the flashing lights during every transformation. Make it indie.
Witchblade bomb
Powers was great, but I liked Kabuki even better.
@Dee Vee I believe you are confusing Kabuki with Shi. Kabuki was from David Mack. Shi was from Billy Tucci.
Shoulda made mire spawn
Keanu reeves= Marc silvestri
Matthew mcconuaghey= todd mcfarlane
Tom cruise= rob liefeld
Jason statham= Erik Larsen
Danny devito= Jim Valentine
This is the second comment I've seen about McConaughey as McFarlane, and I don't understand it. I don't see it at all. John Turturro is Todd McFarlane. I mean they look like they could be brothers, almost identical twins.
Comics are not what they used to be. They were meant to be read and then tossed. Now, they are too expensive.
9:04 Spawn 1997 "We were ahead of the Super Hero curve with the movie" Batman 1989 Tim Burton "LOLWUT"
Lol yeah that movie did not age well, horrible CGI , I just watch it for nostalgia. If it’s true about the Reboot , Jamie Foxx will ruin it
The movies. Tv save comics
Why is Rob so pink
Wait what? Spawn was a surprise hit? Is this story produced by MacFarlane? A hit would imply good reviews, making a big profit and the studio green lighting a second movie.
Leifeld's Heroes Reborn Captain America was the worst thing I've ever seen in comics lol whatta crapfest that was!
Lol
Was Spawn really a success though? It made barely made over 50 million
Much of this is hilarious at best. Not once is the fact that their comics were dumb, poorly written, often poorly drawn and sometimes ripped off altogether addressed as a true critical point (maybe interview someone who was critical of them at the time...?). Their refusing the blame for the speculative bubble is preposterous: who started publishing five number ones per month and selling them as collector's items? Plus, portraying the Wildcats and Savage Dragons cartoons or the Witchblade TV series as successes is really a manipulation of events (even tho the Spawn one was very good).
It is mentioned in passing. Still, I think that towards the end of this video they bring up the move away from superhero comics being the core focus. Which, indirectly, led to more varied topics and better writing quality.
J G Yes that is covered. Still, no one has the courage to admit that 70% of early Image was utter rubbish.
Thats not fair. Marvel has a lot of the blame for the speculative boom. Just in this doc you have 3 good examples. Xmen n1, x force n1 , spiderman n1 (stand alone).
Theirs at least made sense. They were a new brand (brands) should they have started in n5? Malibu comics also started because of the sucess of Image and they seem to have released some neat and well put together stuff.
And I get it. Leifeld release a lot of n1s that werent consistant, and some of the others did a bit too. But they were being more consistant and trying to create regular series.
They were just starting, no real writters or editors. THey were making a lot of money and Jim Lee at least , was bringing new talent but they were still "small" just a handfull of people trying to make new Universes (except shadowline/non line). The other lines had "main" books that were more consistant and some other new stuff but thats normal. They werent all working on the same company, it was mini companies, you cant expect a Marvel or Dc level of doing things. And the begining had a lot of poorly written comics, but thats expected from "image" they were more artists. They got better at it by mid 90s .
Do you want think they should have said "me and that guy and that guy were awfull " And if you did even Jim Lee made the "feet " joke. Image is an important company and excelent concept in a terribly managed industry even more back then. They were young , artists (not the writting kind most) and released a fair number of new comics (most). Yes they had some pretty bad comics but so did the other companies. They just had a lot of good ones so on average it seems worse. And the documentary is about Image What it meant andwhy it happend its not a review of the work. They clearly know , at least now and at least some that a lot of it wasntvery good. They comment the pouches and they comment the feet and muscles . More good came out then bad , in a big big way.
Francesco Birsa Alessandri actually they did mention it. It was in the first video i think. They say why their over the top artstyle was so important: its because the writing was definatly Not the thing that drew people in. (Which is hilariously honest.)
Apart from that this whole documentary was rather neutral about the quality. All they say is what happend: successfull sales, TV and movie representation (which is a success) etc.
But i agree they really kinda ignore that thematic, also it was a pretty important thing, especially for the 7.
"who started publishing five number ones per month and selling them as collector's items?" This was covered in the documentary as well as the points brought up by others. It was Marvel, then DC that started it.
Know it's heresy but I always avoided buying a comic with a J Lee cover or art. I guess growing up on artwork in 2000AD in the 1980's spoiled me.
2000AD in the 1980s rocked my world. Gorgeous artwork and great creators!
@Dee Vee , yeah, he must be talking about Jae Lee who did the super cool gory style which may not be everyones taste. Jim Lee is the absolute master and epitome of good comic book art.
God I hate bendis’ voice
Same , he lost his mind, he’s such a Sjw dummy
The Spawn film was NOT a hit. At best, it was a moderate financial success, and a critical disaster.
The Spawn movie was not good. I've never rewatched it.
Jim Valentino turned down my comic idea...(ENTITIES). Jim Valentino was just as bad as Tom Defalco at Marvel he turned me down as an artist for Marvel... I could draw just as good as any of the fabulous 7 at Image
I want a movie based on these guys journey and creation of Image Comics. Like The Social Network