Love Karate, practiced a little when I was a kid with my older brother. Although I'm a Judoka now and love judo, I want to train karate again in the future, so I can become a more complete martial artist.
Additionally when Jigoro Kano visited Okinawa, he met with Kenwa Mabuni. Sensei Mabuni was giving a demonstration and Sensei Kano stated something like: For your profound knowledge you immediately deserve the rank of Yon-Dan in Judo.
@ idk, I used to compete in American mma for 7yrs and I think kudo would be entertaining to Americans, but the economic power structures of american capitalism would prevent it from easily gaining footing. I've shown sumo matches to american friends that don't even watch wrestling/grappling sports and they've loved it, it's alot like American football 🏈, if one linebacker from each team came at each other off the grid line with tremendous skill. Sumo just can't easily slide into competition economically against seated American federations of wrestling.
@Forza è onore I love combat sambo too. the reason I like kudo is because it's the closest to old school karate in competition, even enshi karate competitions have weakened since the mid 90s. And I disagree, kudo is very entertaining and could easily pick up a fan base in the US if the system of corporate control over industry in the us weren't so extreme and the evolution of the sport will natural bring in a more lateral field of talent. Most early UFC fighters were less skilled than today's higher ranking kudo fighters.
Fantastic! Its a shame throwing is sometimes neglected in modern karate. Funakoshi the founder of shotokan demonstrates several throws in his early books including osoto gari, ankle picks, tosses etc.
I noticed that a lot of karate dojos have hard floors or roll-out mats and maybe a few crash pads for practicing throws sparingly. Practicing throws regularly requires a particularly robust mat setup that can get expensive. I guess that could be a factor.
I like the idea, but there's a lot of misconceptions here, this is not regular Karate. These Karate videos are actually from Daido Juku Kudo, a mix of Kyokushin Karate and Judo created in 80s by Sensei Azuma Takashi, black belt in both arts. So basically these techniques are all Judo and not traditional Karate.
@@georgelucas6923 Thanks Mate. I was indeed about to make the same comment. If I may add, Kudo evolved from Kyokushin having in mind that Kyokushin Karate curriculum did not include significant part of grappling or throwing. Yet many of first generation Kyokyshin Karatekas were trained in Judo as well. So at first it did not make much sense to teach it . If you look especially at the first kyokushin open tournaments and the fights between small and big guys, the small guys only win when they grapple ! Other point, when you look at karate styles like uechi ryu or goju ryu you can seen that the grappling part (at least standing) is very present in their curriculum. But nagewasa is very limited.
I don't believe there should be a "VS" between Kodokan Judo and Shotokan Karate. I believe they are more like brothers, having somewhat blended through cross training when Funikoshi Shihan taught at the Kodokan. They each contain similar and in some cases identical techniques that when viewed independently would be labeled either Judo Waza or Karatedo Waza depending on whether you're talking to a Judoka or Karateka. Another great video from Chadi, comme d'habitude.
Oh please. Don't try to mix up judo and shotokan karate. Firstly, there is not really any atemi-waza in judo anymore, and the one that used to be there sucked. Secondly, Shotokan karate is probably the silliest martial art I ever tried. It kind of reminds me of th Prussian forces in the 19th century that where very good at marching, but didn't know how to shoot. It is not even physically challenging, not to mention the utterly stupid Ippon power punch. Judo is/was a real martial art. Shotokan karate is McDojo.
@Zeek Banistor I don't care if you take offense. A style that relies on extremely static movement (like18th century marching Prussian soldiers, but worse), and thinks it is a good idea to let one hand hang by the hip instead of protecting the face and body,, should be ridiculed. Let's not even mention that you think you can block strikes a la "wax on-wax-off" and don't understand that you have to push your body weight into the strike or kick. It's not my problem that you picked a silly style. Although I think many styles of karate are like this. Kuykushin seem okey.
I love this video. Im from a Goju Ryu club that also trains knockdown, and we do incorporate throws and grappling in the system in kumite. I do think that doing Kodokan Judo alongside it has significantly upped my Karate game.
Sometimes your biggest weakness can become your biggest strength. Take, for example, the story of one 10-year-old boy who decided to study judo despite the fact that he had lost his left arm in a devastating car accident. The boy began lessons with an old Japanese judo master. The boy was doing well, so he couldn't understand why, after three months of training the master had taught him only one move. "Sensei," the boy finally said, "Shouldn't I be learning more moves?" "This is the only move you know, but this is the only move you'll ever need to know," the sensei replied. Not quite understanding, but believing in his teacher, the boy kept training. Several months later, the sensei took the boy to his first tournament. Surprising himself, the boy easily won his first two matches. The third match proved to be more difficult, but after some time, his opponent became impatient and charged; the boy deftly used his one move to win the match. Still amazed by his success, the boy was now in the finals. This time, his opponent was bigger, stronger, and more experienced. For a while, the boy appeared to be overmatched. Concerned that the boy might get hurt, the referee called a time-out. He was about to stop the match when the sensei intervened. "No," the sensei insisted, "Let him continue." Soon after the match resumed, his opponent made a critical mistake: he dropped his guard. Instantly, the boy used his move to pin him. The boy had won the match and the tournament. He was the champion. On the way home, the boy and sensei reviewed every move in each and every match. Then the boy summoned the courage to ask what was really on his mind. "Sensei, how did I win the tournament with only one move?" "You won for two reasons," the sensei answered. "First, you've almost mastered one of the most difficult throws in all of judo. And second, the only known defence for that move is for your opponent to grab your left arm." The boy's biggest weakness had become his biggest strength. who is the boy and his master. what is the move? what are the key points to mastering it? i have 2 arms i just really liked the story. im sure there are a few throws that if you mastered would be very hard to counter. even if it was very hard to learn. it would be worth it since almost nobody would even resemble a skill level being able to counter it. unless they did a similar thing. so there would be almost 0 chance you would ever have to worry about it and if you did it would be such a great fight and you would learn so so much from it.
Chadi, dropping knowledge again a great video, I had my doubts about Karate but this video cleared up and cleared out the fogginess about the art of Karate , still love my Jujitsu and Judo but appreciate this insight 👍
@RobertL Not sure what you mean by "you people" since I've never even practiced Kyokushin. In fact when my son gets old enough, I'm taking him to learn judo even though there's a Kyokushin dojo that's closer (although that's partially because the Kyokushin place has an older age bar). I did a little western boxing in university which was great except for getting brain cells killed. Which is your preferred striking art?
The term "Kumite" used in Karate describing free sparring means grappling hands in Japanese, I wonder what the old Kumite looked like compared to the new sport styles you see in Europe and America with the striking part of Karate emphasised rather than the whole art being taught, maybe to differentiate from Judo or to simplify the training who knows.
Hugo Stiglitz If you look at Motobu Choki’s Kumite you can see he uses a lot of holding techniques and close range fighting. Same with Uechi Ryu, they use a lot of gripping techniques with the hands.
@@ninthkaikan1544 wado ryu is also famous for having many jujutsu techniques. Basically all the styles feature a lot of grappling, wheter individual schools practice it or not is irrelevant. This guy doesn't know what he is talking about tbh
Spot on. Throws are neglected in American modern karate-do to simplify training and keeping it more striking based. Traditional Okinawan karate is huge on throwing, but that's because they are keen to studying all aspects of karate
What I find as one of the most interesting things, is to find nage waza within karate Kata. A lot are disguised as strikes or "blocks". But if you follow the sequences of movements when applied with another body in the way, they become much more than just one technique.
@@Chadi I have always had an interest in Goju ryu but the only dojo is a 2 hour drive away. I've been studying the katas during this covid quarantine but wonder if it is realistic to study the art if I could only make it to the dojo 2 times a month. Plus I'm 53 now and not getting any younger.
Never tried karate, but have experience is combat sambo, and Judo so it's interesting to see the similarities between it the three despite being "separate" arts🤔
@@regalisexa3869 I get what you're saying but when you think about it in the end it's just fighting. So when you see similarities i think it's because they all reached the conclusion that a particular technique is the most effective way to an oponnent and/or avoid damage to yourself. With that approach it would be weirder if there weren't common points at all.
Hi Chadi. I think the video of Karate you choose is from Kudo. (I can recognise one of the senseis). It is a hybrid style ( Karate with grappeling techniques). I think the idea of the video is correct. Traditional Karate has a grappeling side but not very used like judo don't use atemi-waza striking techniques. There is a karate expert called patrick mccarthy who has done a good work about the ground techniques in karate and even made like a syllabus of all basic ground techniques in one serie.
A great comparison of take-down techniques in karate & judo. I wish more karate schools trained these techniques.... I've trained at several different karate clubs over the last half a dozen years but sadly very few of them even practice the "karate style" throws.
Another amazing video! I've read an article in martial way that there are some crossovers during there time. Like Mas Oyama studied judo before the kyokushin thing, and Masahiko Kimura also studied goju ryu under Nei Chu So. I wonder if all of that were true? 🤔
Wow. I agree with Kimura. Osoto gari is my favorite throw as well. Yes karate is primarily a striking art. But they teach throws as well. When I was about ten, I was training in karate and I had trouble with another kid on the playground. We were playing basketball and a dispute broke out over a call. I attempted to walk away and the guy grabbed me from behind. I threw him over my shoulder and he landed in a heap, on the concrete pavement. OUCH. Thank you for the video Chadi. I like it when you discuss multiple throws. Keep it up!
The problem with karate is that you have so many styles and all of them emphasize something different. On the other hand, judo is under one roof martial art. Also in karate, you practice way more katas than the actual application of the katas (bunkais). Judo practices its techniques in a combat form setting, and judo techniques can actually be applied in real combat. Those of karate cannot, most their techniques. Why? bc in karate you expect to block a punch and then proceed with the fancy technique. In judo, you don't expect to block or grab anything but you go and make it happen by grabbing your opponent, throw him to the ground and do some newaza. In my experience (black belt of shito ryu), there's nothing in karate like judo. Judo is a much better form of self-defense. karate is a great fitness program where you think you're pretty dangerous. Thanks.
Most fancy technique is not actually fancy. Most of the time it will be block punch/grab opponent and punch and throw. That is the basis of most karate bunkai. I also train in shito-ryu and my sensei is also a judo 5th dan so that might be why but if you get a legit school you will find a lot of judo-esque throws and takedowns in the kata. I would recommend you watch some Ian Abernethy videos (practicalkatabunkai)
@@SereneJudo Congratulations! Glad you ran away from that fake form of martial art. You really didn't waste time if compared with me. I spent 6 years doing and believing in karate, but no more. Now, I want to do judo which is the art I wanted to do since I was a kid but could't enter any judo dojo at that time. Judo is the most legit martial art in history. Don't give up and keep practicing.
@@TNTTestificate Even within shito ryu karate there're various styles: hayashi ha, shito kai, Saito, etc. It's all bullshit. If I were you, I'd drop karate immediately and focus in something tangible and believible like judo, tested in war times, in the cage, at the street, do I need to go on? Also, in kata you don't do any throws, you don't even think you're doing it. kata is not for combat but for fitness like aerobicc, teawbo, running, any of that stuff.
@@Renku07 I also did Karate as well. My style was Seido. I was at the third level (yellow belt). I feel the same way you feel. You get promoted on how well you do Katas, not on how you can apply the moves as in the case of Judo. It's obvious that you will fight the way you train. I also like Muay Thai, because you have to get in the ring and actually fight and get a feel of your opponent. Resistance is very necessary when training. This is another reason I don't believe in grappling dummies.
I study both ,shuri ryu karate and judo...and there is a lot grappling hidden techniques in Karate what it looks like block with low stance ,in reality you are doing sweep and throw we call it GoShinDo...
Thank you chadi!didnt have to ask you delivered.karate in itself has multiple styles with a diferent focus on grappling.in short karate grappling focuses on suporting the striking/negating oposing striking.
Even tho these scenes are from Kudo, karate does have a lot of take downs and grappling, but nobody sees it. We got Ippon seoi nage( heian/pinan godan), te guruma (kanku dai), fireman's carry (Jitte), morote gari (Bassai Dai), ude hishigi te gatame(Jion and maybe on Kanku Dai) and it's all there, but people don't see it because modern karate is middle to long range. The kata contains grappling techniques, but if nobody does grappling (in most of the cases, in karate) they don't see it. GREAT VIDEO, man!!!!
I was wondering if in the future you could cover the throws found in full contact karate such as Kyokushin Kai, Seidokan, and Ashihara. I remover watching them go from strikes to a judo style throws. I have no idea if it’s true but I heard a story that they actually tried to make pro judo in a actual wrestling ring. I think Semmy Schilt flight but there was a Karate thing he won that was like MMA with a bubble headgear. I think this was another style of karate that allowed throws.
it can be that techniques have similarities because there are certain ways to outbalance, throw or sweep that can be done in certain ways no matter what a person will do. It is the purpose of the similar techniques that makes it different like when in judo the purpose is to take down an opponent to the ground so ground fight technique and concept will be applied; in Karate the throw is to outbalance the opponent to let it fall to the ground so that it can not fight or defend efficiently against kicks and other strike.
I think it's the same with atemi waza, some strikes in Judo can be compared with strikes in Karate. I'm starting to believe that techniques are not credited but discovered in this day in age. Martial arts seems to be funny in that regard.
Most of the Karate scenes here are from Kudo Karate. I love Kudo Karate so much. Another thing about the Ura Nage is that I think it can be used in Judo especially if the opponent is trying to reach for a high collar grip. Or if someone tries to go for the Georgian grip. That Ura nage would be perfect in those scenarios.
I never realised they were this throws in common. Would have useful to me in match with a muai thai guy who broke me with his knee kicks lol. I have seen also go ju ryu karate videos with some throws that looks like aikido throws (Uchi Kaiten Nage, Tenchi Nage).
Grappling has always been present in Goju Ryu, Okinawan Goju Ryu at least. However, the focus is striking the opponent to ''soften'' them so you can take them down and finish them. If they fall because of striking, even better.
@@Chadi ok I thought daki wakare was more of a twisting action rather than a lifting one but I'm no Judoka, only a BJJ guy who wishes he could do Judo. Either way I like the karate variation, it's one of the few takedowns I can pull off in rolls.
another great video Chadi !. ..I have old karate friends who have certain grips and throws to their reportiore in kumite . it is surprising how many win using O soto gari and de ashi barai , because it is very fast and difficult to counter attack . keep up the good work ! :) - cheers !
Although the video is from a particular school that focuses a lot on throws, the original complete karate-do system includes take downs, leg sweeps, etc. Unfortunately many studios have been focusing strictly on competition, which allows a severely limited number of these techniques, which unfortunately has created a number of instructors who never familiarized with throws, but any instructor I have encountered with 35 years of experience or more, practice and teach o-goshi, ippon seoi nage, tomoe nage, etc.
@@Chadi Competition rules are restrictive, true. But I was taught "this is competition, this is real fight" I was lucky enough to be taught by instructors who cared about passing the entire art to us, not just the sports part.
If you watch old Okinawan karate practice there are lots of techniques to tumble an opponent followed by strikes or strike followed by a technique to tumble the opponent. I think in Okinawan karate, tumbling to the ground an opponent is to make the opponent can not fight efficiently while the one standing can strike the downed opponent with kicks and running around the helpless opponent while striking him. in karate the ground fighting technique is different the defender is in sideways to protect its groin area while kicking. In MMA they can sit with their groin open since it is prohibited to hit the groin.
Can you consider karate as an Okinawan koryu jujutsu? This being said, imagine taking a karate school and categorizing the ryuha techniques using judo categories, ie Atemiwaza(the most frequent) Nagewaza (like in this video) Shimewaza (few but they exist) Katamewaza (the categories of the school's variations of each joinlock, example of a scenario:- is it under udegatame or hizagatame etc) Osaekomi(though from my observation, this category has very limited variations in the oldschool karate ryuha) I don't think Okinawan budoka and Japanese budoka were extremely different, just different in preference of technique. Remember Okinawan sumo is an ancestor to karate just like Japanese sumo is an ancestor to jujutsu and judo
Really a nice video! One can clearly see how much effort you put into your videos. So: alone for this both thumbs up! Only nitpick i have for this video: in Karate Uke is the defender and Tori is the attacker. Uke is used for the defender because he/she receives the attack of the aggressor. One thing about Karate today, that disturbs me a lot: The fact that so many Karateka have appearently no clue about grappling and the numerous throwing techniques that are part of Karate. Instead many focus only on the stuff you see on tournaments. This is very sad, if you ask me. But it lifts me up to see that a non-Karateka knows this. Many modern Karateka should feel ashamed by the fact that a non-Karateka knows more about their art than they themselves. On the other hand: it is not rare to find a master of Karate and he/she also happens to hold a Dan-degree in Judo as well. E.g. Tetsuhiko Asai. He was a Ku-Dan Karateka (posthumusly promoted to 10th Dan) and he also had Ni-Dan in Judo. My own master is a Ku-Dan in Karate, Hachi-Dan in Yamanni-Ryu and he also has Dan degrees in Judo and Kendo too. Again: Well done, Chadi!
This is very evident in karate combat . There are a lot of fantastic throws , arguably more than most judo bouts in recent years, plus they don’t have the ridiculous rules the ijf introduced which banned some of the greatest throws in judo
Hello Chadi! Big Fan of your videos. I´m a Karateka and Judoka from Venezuela. You should check Funakoshi Gichin's throws that is real Karate throws adapted from Judo.
Ashi-barai in Karate has many applications for offence and defence, as well as unique counters to it, like using the momentum from an opponent's de-ashi-barai to hook kick him to the head. Ashi-barai in Karate (from my experience) only score if followed up with a punch or kick. Technically, it's not the sweep that scores, it's the follow-up strike. Often the goal is to break your opponent's balance (kuzushi) and concentration to set up a punch or kick. I have a black belt in Shotokan Karate (1988), so my perspective is from my experience. Karate is a term used very loosely, and most of it is weak these days. Then again, judo used to be much tougher than it is today. I remember the hardness of real tatami! (Straw packed mats.) SHOTOKAN Art Of War shows some good karate footage, for anyone interested.
I think the video of karate ( with half sleeves) is Kudo which is a hybrid style karate with grappeling techniques. (I know that in traditional karate styles there are grappeling techniques...)
The difference between Judo a martial way/sport and Karate meant to be a civilian self defence. Is that in throwing techniques is that in one you are not trying to hurt the opponent in the other you are. The karate throws mean that you shouldn't give your assailant an opening as you try to up-end him, maybe hit him first ... again a difference in approach
For everybody who is interested in the NAGE WAZA of Karate. There is the book Karate do- Kyohan by Gichin Funakoshi (the father of modern (Shotokan-) Karate as big of a figure like Kano for us Judoka) which is avaible on most bookstores and online plattforms. In chapter 6 Nage-Waza you can clearly see that Karate has it own "versions" so to speak of the standard judo thros. Osoto Gari is f.e. called Byo-bu Daoshi Folding scren topple. The detailed instructions suspects that this was developed in the system and not imported For further details you could also check out Iain Abernathys videos on Karates 9 throws. Just type it in youtube Because in the end of athe day. A good throw is a good throw. Osu. Keep training!
This bloke Iain Abernathy I mentioned even did a similar video as you maybe it is interesting seing somebodys perspective from "the other side" on the subject: ruclips.net/video/ZEeZ-0bjS0c/видео.html
From a non competition point of view the synthesis of Judo and Karate makes sense. Smashing someone in the head to soften them up saves a lot of work and improves the odds. I watched a video by Jesse Enkamp and if memory serve me correctly the Okinawas developed Karate as a complete system. Then it was butchered for marketing purposes. Kudo looks like a great art and makes sense.
This is fascinating.. that even Karate has grappling techniques.. so in reality it wasn't the Gracies that 'invented' ground fighting.. it's just that all other martial arts forgot that grappling is also important to focus on. So if anything, The Gracies were late to the party.
they have not forgotten ... former JUDO guest by injury Bill "Superfoot" Wallace The Gracie UFC Conspiracy: ruclips.net/video/I_tMkWoUN18/видео.html bonus, good interview Fighting IQ Is Superior To Power and Speed • Ft. Bill Wallace ruclips.net/video/kC_tSu79tZY/видео.html a reminder that Gracie do not have a monopoly ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=gracie+hunter Kazushi Sakuraba WIKIPEDIA: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazushi_Sakuraba
Ryan Dartez 100% correct. I did Judo 40 years ago as a teen and we did a lot of groundwork. When we fought we continued to the ground. As l understand it the Japanese instructor who initially taught the Gracies was a judoka. So bjj is essentially judo. The main difference is that over time they've come to focus almost exclusively on groundwork and they've retained things like leglocks which were included in the old pre wwii judo.
@@ThePsychoguy my country's Judo Federation hosts a Newaza competition each year. But BJJ clubs can attend only if they are affiliated (AKA pay each year for nothing).
Personally grappling is the best. To me it is way more practical to me for two reasons. 1: in self defense it is stronger legally than hitting your opponent. Though I believe if SD is an interest you should have a solid striking “in case”. Plus it good to know what getting hit is like. 2: Judo in particular has better advantages. You get a guy off balance you have taken his “power”. You limit his ability to move, grab and less power in his hits. It is almost like you are in a bubble where you make the decisions. Once you have taken his power he is yours. Also if you were just a striker only it is “toe to toe”, better odds of injury, your opponent is able to move, bob, weave and hit with full power. I miss Judo soon hopefully we will become one again
Buen Video!!! Creo que ambas disciplinas son maravillosas, pero combinadas crean sinergia!!! Casualidad que las fuerzas especiales de casi todo el mundo las incluyan en CQB!!!. Éxitos!!!!
When you do, I would also recommend looking at Enshin Karate. Kancho Joko Ninomiya, who was a student under Ashihara and Oyama, originally studied judo. The Sabaki tournament he hosts allows certain types of throws in competition. Enshin has increased emphasis on takedowns in recent years.
I have black belts in Shotokan Karate as well as Kodokan Judo. I don't really view it as one against the other. Fighting is fighting, they are different parts of the whole as I see it.
Why didn't you talk about the 9 throws of funakoshi? Those throws were pretty unique compared to judo techniques. Traditional karate has so much unique takedowns.👍
i am not sure about this video. i mean,karate has several styles, with several ways to use a technique,while judo has maybe 2 styles,but is always judo and the way to use a technique is the same. for example,ashi barai shown in the video in used probably by a kyokushinkai karateka,a contact karate style, while the same technique shown by a shotakan karateka would be different because shotokan is not a contact style
nage waza and atemi is exactly the same thing, there is no difference. in fact as you can see at 7,50 there is an irimi nage, a throw which is at once also a strike, which brings aikido more close to karate than judo, if we exclude Mifune and Kano.
I watched the video and feel there is way too much judo put into the mix. Not only is Karate closer to Aikido, it is probably more of an early jiu jitsu style that has a lot of striking as an emphasis. This explains why Funakoshi Sensei thought Otsuki Sensei had studied the Ryu kyu arts previously on their first encounter. Funakoshi Sensei brought over 15 kata c. 1925. It is important to copy the movements as closely as possible to the kata. It is muscle memory. Much of Shotokan has been stylized and sporterized since the late 1930's. They changed many movements to make them safer to practice and look pretty. But the version 1.0 is there. Likewise, judo came into being by cleaning up some of the old jiu jitsu techniques.
Things can change. I just don't understand why not considering the all history in the evolution, and just telling the modern evolution, forgetting all the rest.
I study s.k.i.f and kase ha karate both sensei Kanazawa and sensei Kase were high level Judokas . Check out Patrick McCarthy grate karate historian. More judo in karate and more karate in judo i think?
I come from a region where the study of karate is exclusively striking. However, whenever I got into a confrontation, I would freeze whenever someone grabbed me, due to my lack of knowledge in grappling. Thus began my journey in the study of jujutsu
@RobertL Unfortunately I live in a country where they look down upon fighting arts, and the only fighting styles available are karate, tkd and boxing. There is only one bjj gym in the whole country and it's so expensive that you've gotta b a rich kid and have the interest to do it. Furthermore, cross-training was extremely looked down upon. I saw ufc 3 months into training and it really opened my eyes. Personally I got good at striking because of my karate training, kumite competitions, also cross sparring with like-minded boxers and tkd guys. Plus I've gotten into a few serious fights here and there (not that I'm proud, but I've faired well in them). But whenever i'd get into a clinching situation at first I wouldn't know how to handle the fight. I started incorporating a leg sweep (learned from kata, of all places!) and I became good at it. I saw a window that most of my opponents weren't seeing and I decided to practice in the clinching range. Later, we got the internet and I discovered judo. I thought to myself "wow, these moves could really level up my game!" and I started researching grappling. But since I had no one to train with, I had to learn them during actual application, which is easier said than done. Fortunately I got the opportunity do my masters degree London for two years, and the first thing I did was look for a jiu-jitsu gym! It did wonders for my ground game 😊. They had guys training for mma, so they had non-grappling sparring sessions, of which I also participated in to test my striking. But still learning grappling was the main objective in this gym. I went back to home (and back to the local would-be assailants, lol) but I was better prepared. Im not saying I'm an excellent fighter, my main aim in training martial arts is to be better prepared for fighting situations. My striking is good, but now im better educated on the ground than my would-be assailants. And in the words of Rickson Gracie, 95% of fights end up on the ground (my striking's got the other 5% covered)
@RobertL I don't have an official belt ranking but iv beaten black belts in kumite competitions in my youth. And nowadays I can't join a fighting gym coz of their dogmatic training. So I train with my sister in law in the park. I show her stuff like boxing blocks instead of the traditional karate blocks, adding takedowns and clinch striking. People ask "what's that you're training?" I tell them modern karate but I train the stuff that works.
Chito-Ryu Karate-do = Traditional Okinawan Karate (i.e. Naha-te, Shuri-te and Tomari-te) + Judo/Ju-Jutsu. Proficiency in many different throws and joint locks are a major requirement in this style. "Kudo" is another... a mixture of Kyushokin and Judo.
I have to disagree here. You have taken Kyukoshin to prove show the throws are being used. Kyukoshin is modern Karate with a curriculum from 1950s-60s that finalized it's curriculum to include throws from judo to get past Siamese boxing and it's sweeps during the early challenge matches of the 1960s. A more appropriate comparison would have been taking the bunkai of an Okinawan art but you will realise that Okinawan arts seldom hint at anything more than sweeps and trips and are widely different in application from the mainland arts. Some people try to interpret some of these bunkai as throws that look similar to Judo but they are mostly a bit of a stretch of imagination and modern day interpretation. Okinawans and Japanese weren't exactly the friendliest to each other and Tote was practiced more to defend against the Samurai so it has little exchange with the Samurai arts. Most influences of Japanese terminologies like atemi Waza, Nage Waza, tachi Waza came after the Meiji era and sometimes much later.
If I was going to compare similar techniques from Judo and a karate, I think I would be comparing self-defense Judo to Karate, not sport Judo. This really doesn’t make tell us much.
Love how you mention judo has atemi waza. Judo is not just a sport! Judo has strikes, leg grabs , small joint and knee manipulation. Kata guruma, te guruma and kibusu were my favorite techniques oh but you can't teach them try them in randori...B's!
I dislike the titles like “Judo vs. Karate” or “Wrestling vs. Aikido” or “Boxing vs. Muai Thai”. It is always a fighter A against fighter B, and of course, everything depends on the agreed rules. Sometimes fighter practicing Judo will defeat fighter practicing Karate, and in some other case the outcome will be different. It mainly depends on the skill of the fighter, and only slightly on the art he or she is practicing.
What you show here as Karate is Kyokushin! Oyama had a black belt in Judo and incorporated it. There is even ne waza in Kyokushin. So you dont show distinct Karate throws here but just Judo that get incorporated in a special style of Karate. You often have these rude mistakes in your claims.
While karate has almost all the strikes catalogued like open hand strike, closed hand, fore arm strike, kicks like mavashi etc. and combines striking with grappling it lacks key stuff like punches to the head, they are pretty much open to head strikes which makes them easy targets and no real passive defence training , also most moves haven't got natural combination movement in them and they lack mid section movement, range control and the footwork of boxing. Their grappling moves and submissions are very little and Ofc not so technical as in judo. Karate also have a lot of ancient types of training which is cool but again not enough. I can mostly accept it as a knowledge encyclopedia of fighting and training and use it to learn some stuff but not so much as an alive combat system good for modern self defense.
@@Chadi Let's talk about it! A karate form is a specific set of movements with a beginning and an end like you show in the video, training this way assumes that the opponent will always do the same thing, the answer will be the same and with the same result , unfortunately battle is chaotic so after you do the first part of the form chain then the reaction can be different thus the result will be different and uncontrollable, this can happen in any part of the form, by breaking down the form to let's say the strike used and the throw used you can actively choose the answer depending on the momentum. What Rikson Gracie talk about invisible ju jitsu is about accurately breaking down the muscles used from any technique to counter your opponents reaction to the detail which is not tought by karate forms. The varieties of the techniques, reactions and movements even to the detail of small muscles are so many that karate is just not enough to teach you how to combine striking and grappling . Katas and forms is a story already told, learn to write and create your own story man!
@@Chadi Yes they do, but with no head punches training you lose half of the striking skillset that's not good as a mainly striking art, I can see karateka trying to evolve though and I give them that , I have also seen honorable mentions of karateka out there that are actually good fighters but that's a bit rare I am afraid. I hope they keep the good elements of the art and evolve to keep their cultural aspect high.
uuuugh we knoe karate and judo has its pro's and con's. We are in 2020 people and you sre still comparing which one may be the best or better - all in unrealistic scenarios. Rather show how they can complement each other and give us something valuable to learn.
For some reason every time I watch your channel I feel like throwing. haha. You might like the Tai Ki Budo Kai guys: ruclips.net/video/YmWsGstY0wg/видео.html
There are so many styles of karate. Shotokan,Tang Soo do, Goju ryu, Shito ryu, Budokan,and of course kyokushin. Karate is a good martial art because it is easy to learn and just about anyone can do it and become proficient in it after several years of hard work.
I disagree with the comparison. I studied judo from Japanese 4th dans, reaching Shodan. I also learnt judo from a Korean 5th Dan Judo (Yudo) instructor who also taught Tang Soo Do. I next studied Shaolin Temple Boxing 5 Ancestors which was reported to have influenced Okinawa-te. Next I learned Taekwondo (Odo-Kwan) and Hapkido from a 7th Dan Taekwondo master who was a Korean Army captain. (Odo-Kwan is influenced by Shotokan) I reached 2nd Dan in Taekwondo and was his assistant instructor. No, the training and techniques are different fundamentally. Only similarities are personal applications by individual practitioners who may have dabbled in both arts. No pure karate practitioner would be able to throw me (I have never been successfully throw in judo free-fighting over 5 years). I have also trained and matched off with Karatekas frequently. However, being from judo as well as Hapkido, I can easily throw a Taekwondo practitioner if that is “allowed” in any match off. It’s an individual application not endemic to either style but Taekwondo and most kicking styles are conceptually vulnerable to a good judoka.You fight the way you train and the training is different. My Korean Judo instructor said it best- Karate and Judo develop different type of muscles in the trainee. You can’t be good in both.
Love Karate, practiced a little when I was a kid with my older brother. Although I'm a Judoka now and love judo, I want to train karate again in the future, so I can become a more complete martial artist.
Great video! History shows that Kano was a mentor to Funakoshi (Shotokan) and Masahiko Kimura and Mas Oyama (Kyokushin) trained together!
Exactly!
Additionally when Jigoro Kano visited Okinawa, he met with Kenwa Mabuni. Sensei Mabuni was giving a demonstration and Sensei Kano stated something like: For your profound knowledge you immediately deserve the rank of Yon-Dan in Judo.
Noticing A lot more karate in the west embracing Tegumi / grappling, through study of the Bubishi / Wu Bei Zhi. I like it.
It's fascinating
Now I have more words to look up.
The bubishi is awesome for someone who wants to stay mainly karate but also loves throwing techniques
I would love to see kudo competition take off in the US.
It's fascinating
@ idk, I used to compete in American mma for 7yrs and I think kudo would be entertaining to Americans, but the economic power structures of american capitalism would prevent it from easily gaining footing. I've shown sumo matches to american friends that don't even watch wrestling/grappling sports and they've loved it, it's alot like American football 🏈, if one linebacker from each team came at each other off the grid line with tremendous skill. Sumo just can't easily slide into competition economically against seated American federations of wrestling.
@Forza è onore I love combat sambo too. the reason I like kudo is because it's the closest to old school karate in competition, even enshi karate competitions have weakened since the mid 90s. And I disagree, kudo is very entertaining and could easily pick up a fan base in the US if the system of corporate control over industry in the us weren't so extreme and the evolution of the sport will natural bring in a more lateral field of talent. Most early UFC fighters were less skilled than today's higher ranking kudo fighters.
In karate we use stikes to unbalance the other person, which then makes the throw easier to execute.
@@rustyshackleford735 Americans could well be a Sumo powerhouse.
Just look how many fat people they have ! 😬🤙🏼
Fantastic! Its a shame throwing is sometimes neglected in modern karate. Funakoshi the founder of shotokan demonstrates several throws in his early books including osoto gari, ankle picks, tosses etc.
Thank you James
I noticed that a lot of karate dojos have hard floors or roll-out mats and maybe a few crash pads for practicing throws sparingly. Practicing throws regularly requires a particularly robust mat setup that can get expensive. I guess that could be a factor.
I like the idea, but there's a lot of misconceptions here, this is not regular Karate. These Karate videos are actually from Daido Juku Kudo, a mix of Kyokushin Karate and Judo created in 80s by Sensei Azuma Takashi, black belt in both arts. So basically these techniques are all Judo and not traditional Karate.
Very interesting thanks 🙏
Thank You Sir.
Thank you Sir for clearing it out
No problem man, your work is great.
@@georgelucas6923 Thanks Mate. I was indeed about to make the same comment. If I may add, Kudo evolved from Kyokushin having in mind that Kyokushin Karate curriculum did not include significant part of grappling or throwing. Yet many of first generation Kyokyshin Karatekas were trained in Judo as well. So at first it did not make much sense to teach it . If you look especially at the first kyokushin open tournaments and the fights between small and big guys, the small guys only win when they grapple !
Other point, when you look at karate styles like uechi ryu or goju ryu you can seen that the grappling part (at least standing) is very present in their curriculum. But nagewasa is very limited.
I don't believe there should be a "VS" between Kodokan Judo and Shotokan Karate. I believe they are more like brothers, having somewhat blended through cross training when Funikoshi Shihan taught at the Kodokan. They each contain similar and in some cases identical techniques that when viewed independently would be labeled either Judo Waza or Karatedo Waza depending on whether you're talking to a Judoka or Karateka. Another great video from Chadi, comme d'habitude.
Merci beaucoup
Oh please. Don't try to mix up judo and shotokan karate. Firstly, there is not really any atemi-waza in judo anymore, and the one that used to be there sucked. Secondly, Shotokan karate is probably the silliest martial art I ever tried. It kind of reminds me of th Prussian forces in the 19th century that where very good at marching, but didn't know how to shoot. It is not even physically challenging, not to mention the utterly stupid Ippon power punch.
Judo is/was a real martial art. Shotokan karate is McDojo.
@Zeek Banistor I don't care if you take offense. A style that relies on extremely static movement (like18th century marching Prussian soldiers, but worse), and thinks it is a good idea to let one hand hang by the hip instead of protecting the face and body,, should be ridiculed.
Let's not even mention that you think you can block strikes a la "wax on-wax-off" and don't understand that you have to push your body weight into the strike or kick. It's not my problem that you picked a silly style. Although I think many styles of karate are like this. Kuykushin seem okey.
@@henrikg1388 Judo seems to rely heavily on grabbing clothing. What if the guy isn't wearing a shirt and is sweaty then what?
Finally a video featuring karate.Man you are amazing
Thank you Michael
Chadi No.Thank you!
I love this video. Im from a Goju Ryu club that also trains knockdown, and we do incorporate throws and grappling in the system in kumite. I do think that doing Kodokan Judo alongside it has significantly upped my Karate game.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing
Sometimes your biggest weakness can become your biggest strength. Take, for example, the story of one 10-year-old boy who decided to study judo despite the fact that he had lost his left arm in a devastating car accident.
The boy began lessons with an old Japanese judo master. The boy was doing well, so he couldn't understand why, after three months of training the master had taught him only one move.
"Sensei," the boy finally said, "Shouldn't I be learning more moves?"
"This is the only move you know, but this is the only move you'll ever need to know," the sensei replied.
Not quite understanding, but believing in his teacher, the boy kept training.
Several months later, the sensei took the boy to his first tournament. Surprising himself, the boy easily won his first two matches. The third match proved to be more difficult, but after some time, his opponent became impatient and charged; the boy deftly used his one move to win the match. Still amazed by his success, the boy was now in the finals.
This time, his opponent was bigger, stronger, and more experienced. For a while, the boy appeared to be overmatched. Concerned that the boy might get hurt, the referee called a time-out. He was about to stop the match when the sensei intervened.
"No," the sensei insisted, "Let him continue."
Soon after the match resumed, his opponent made a critical mistake: he dropped his guard. Instantly, the boy used his move to pin him. The boy had won the match and the tournament. He was the champion.
On the way home, the boy and sensei reviewed every move in each and every match. Then the boy summoned the courage to ask what was really on his mind.
"Sensei, how did I win the tournament with only one move?"
"You won for two reasons," the sensei answered. "First, you've almost mastered one of the most difficult throws in all of judo. And second, the only known defence for that move is for your opponent to grab your left arm."
The boy's biggest weakness had become his biggest strength.
who is the boy and his master. what is the move? what are the key points to mastering it? i have 2 arms i just really liked the story. im sure there are a few throws that if you mastered would be very hard to counter. even if it was very hard to learn. it would be worth it since almost nobody would even resemble a skill level being able to counter it. unless they did a similar thing. so there would be almost 0 chance you would ever have to worry about it and if you did it would be such a great fight and you would learn so so much from it.
Oh my God that story always makes me cry
dalton damm man just hacked lol. No left arm means no defence for the opponent against that move. But damn a beautiful story though.
Chadi, dropping knowledge again a great video, I had my doubts about Karate but this video cleared up and cleared out the fogginess about the art of Karate , still love my Jujitsu and Judo but appreciate this insight 👍
Thank you so much
You should do a study of Kudo primarily based on Kyokushin mixed with Judo, also Nippon Kempo a similar hybrid style with Karate and Judo techniques.
I think the video is from Kudo style.
Will do
Getting a black belt in judo was hardest for me
Congratulations
I hope to some day. It is very hard.
@RobertL Michael Jai White is also a joke?
@RobertL Not sure what you mean by "you people" since I've never even practiced Kyokushin. In fact when my son gets old enough, I'm taking him to learn judo even though there's a Kyokushin dojo that's closer (although that's partially because the Kyokushin place has an older age bar). I did a little western boxing in university which was great except for getting brain cells killed. Which is your preferred striking art?
The term "Kumite" used in Karate describing free sparring means grappling hands in Japanese, I wonder what the old Kumite looked like compared to the new sport styles you see in Europe and America with the striking part of Karate emphasised rather than the whole art being taught, maybe to differentiate from Judo or to simplify the training who knows.
It had more grappling I'm sure
There would be a lot more grappling. If you want to see what old karate grappling looked like look at "tegumi" which is basically karate grappling
Hugo Stiglitz If you look at Motobu Choki’s Kumite you can see he uses a lot of holding techniques and close range fighting. Same with Uechi Ryu, they use a lot of gripping techniques with the hands.
@@ninthkaikan1544 wado ryu is also famous for having many jujutsu techniques. Basically all the styles feature a lot of grappling, wheter individual schools practice it or not is irrelevant. This guy doesn't know what he is talking about tbh
Spot on. Throws are neglected in American modern karate-do to simplify training and keeping it more striking based. Traditional Okinawan karate is huge on throwing, but that's because they are keen to studying all aspects of karate
Awesome comparison!
I'm a goju-ryu karateka and practice all these throws... Kani basami is another throw that i use.
Fantastic video! I did learn some of these growing up in the US and doing karate. Thankful for a dojo that did some of that!
What I find as one of the most interesting things, is to find nage waza within karate Kata.
A lot are disguised as strikes or "blocks". But if you follow the sequences of movements when applied with another body in the way, they become much more than just one technique.
Great video and knowledge. I did Danzan ryu for many years and judo . Wish I had an Okinawan art around where I live.
Hope you find one
@@Chadi I have always had an interest in Goju ryu but the only dojo is a 2 hour drive away. I've been studying the katas during this covid quarantine but wonder if it is realistic to study the art if I could only make it to the dojo 2 times a month. Plus I'm 53 now and not getting any younger.
I study both. Judo and wado ryu karate, so I love this video
Is it true that wadu karate consists of both shotokan and jujutsu?
@@majdikamal1389 Wado ryu is its own style and separate from Shotokan. Perhaps they look similar to the untrained person.
Never tried karate, but have experience is combat sambo, and Judo so it's interesting to see the similarities between it the three despite being "separate" arts🤔
@@regalisexa3869 I get what you're saying but when you think about it in the end it's just fighting. So when you see similarities i think it's because they all reached the conclusion that a particular technique is the most effective way to an oponnent and/or avoid damage to yourself. With that approach it would be weirder if there weren't common points at all.
I had the honor of training under Hironori Ohtsuka Shihan for a short time when he came to the United States. What a thrill !
Hi Chadi.
I think the video of Karate you choose is from Kudo. (I can recognise one of the senseis).
It is a hybrid style ( Karate with grappeling techniques).
I think the idea of the video is correct. Traditional Karate has a grappeling side but not very used like judo don't use atemi-waza striking techniques.
There is a karate expert called patrick mccarthy who has done a good work about the ground techniques in karate and even made like a syllabus of all basic ground techniques in one serie.
Thank you will check it out
A great comparison of take-down techniques in karate & judo. I wish more karate schools trained these techniques.... I've trained at several different karate clubs over the last half a dozen years but sadly very few of them even practice the "karate style" throws.
Another amazing video! I've read an article in martial way that there are some crossovers during there time. Like Mas Oyama studied judo before the kyokushin thing, and Masahiko Kimura also studied goju ryu under Nei Chu So. I wonder if all of that were true? 🤔
I think it's true
@@Chadi Would you fight these masters in a Kendo match? 😆
Wow. I agree with Kimura. Osoto gari is my favorite throw as well. Yes karate is primarily a striking art. But they teach throws as well. When I was about ten, I was training in karate and I had trouble with another kid on the playground. We were playing basketball and a dispute broke out over a call. I attempted to walk away and the guy grabbed me from behind. I threw him over my shoulder and he landed in a heap, on the concrete pavement. OUCH. Thank you for the video Chadi. I like it when you discuss multiple throws. Keep it up!
Thank you Wendell stay safe
Great video! For some reason i follow judo channels even though i'm a karateka myself. So this was quite refreshing to see.
Glad it was refreshing
The problem with karate is that you have so many styles and all of them emphasize something different. On the other hand, judo is under one roof martial art. Also in karate, you practice way more katas than the actual application of the katas (bunkais). Judo practices its techniques in a combat form setting, and judo techniques can actually be applied in real combat. Those of karate cannot, most their techniques. Why? bc in karate you expect to block a punch and then proceed with the fancy technique. In judo, you don't expect to block or grab anything but you go and make it happen by grabbing your opponent, throw him to the ground and do some newaza. In my experience (black belt of shito ryu), there's nothing in karate like judo. Judo is a much better form of self-defense. karate is a great fitness program where you think you're pretty dangerous. Thanks.
I don't know much about Karate i just took a look at throws
Most fancy technique is not actually fancy. Most of the time it will be block punch/grab opponent and punch and throw. That is the basis of most karate bunkai. I also train in shito-ryu and my sensei is also a judo 5th dan so that might be why but if you get a legit school you will find a lot of judo-esque throws and takedowns in the kata. I would recommend you watch some Ian Abernethy videos (practicalkatabunkai)
@@SereneJudo Congratulations! Glad you ran away from that fake form of martial art. You really didn't waste time if compared with me. I spent 6 years doing and believing in karate, but no more. Now, I want to do judo which is the art I wanted to do since I was a kid but could't enter any judo dojo at that time. Judo is the most legit martial art in history. Don't give up and keep practicing.
@@TNTTestificate Even within shito ryu karate there're various styles: hayashi ha, shito kai, Saito, etc. It's all bullshit. If I were you, I'd drop karate immediately and focus in something tangible and believible like judo, tested in war times, in the cage, at the street, do I need to go on? Also, in kata you don't do any throws, you don't even think you're doing it. kata is not for combat but for fitness like aerobicc, teawbo, running, any of that stuff.
@@Renku07 I also did Karate as well. My style was Seido. I was at the third level (yellow belt). I feel the same way you feel. You get promoted on how well you do Katas, not on how you can apply the moves as in the case of Judo. It's obvious that you will fight the way you train. I also like Muay Thai, because you have to get in the ring and actually fight and get a feel of your opponent. Resistance is very necessary when training. This is another reason I don't believe in grappling dummies.
Another very good post with good honest comparison not downing either side.
Thank you Michael
Ashi Harai feint, is what karate have in Tekki Shodan (Neihanchi shodan)
I study both ,shuri ryu karate and judo...and there is a lot grappling hidden techniques in Karate what it looks like block with low stance ,in reality you are doing sweep and throw we call it GoShinDo...
please check my channel the interpretation of Wunsu in advance level
Will do
Very important material for the growth of karatekas and judokas
Thank you
Thank you chadi!didnt have to ask you delivered.karate in itself has multiple styles with a diferent focus on grappling.in short karate grappling focuses on suporting the striking/negating oposing striking.
Thank you Ruben
Even tho these scenes are from Kudo, karate does have a lot of take downs and grappling, but nobody sees it. We got Ippon seoi nage( heian/pinan godan), te guruma (kanku dai), fireman's carry (Jitte), morote gari (Bassai Dai), ude hishigi te gatame(Jion and maybe on Kanku Dai) and it's all there, but people don't see it because modern karate is middle to long range. The kata contains grappling techniques, but if nobody does grappling (in most of the cases, in karate) they don't see it. GREAT VIDEO, man!!!!
Thank you so much Wesley
I was wondering if in the future you could cover the throws found in full contact karate such as Kyokushin Kai, Seidokan, and Ashihara. I remover watching them go from strikes to a judo style throws. I have no idea if it’s true but I heard a story that they actually tried to make pro judo in a actual wrestling ring. I think Semmy Schilt flight but there was a Karate thing he won that was like MMA with a bubble headgear. I think this was another style of karate that allowed throws.
I'll see what i can do
Thank you!!! If not all good brother. Keep the great work!!!
@@jonsavate thank you
it can be that techniques have similarities because there are certain ways to outbalance, throw or sweep that can be done in certain ways no matter what a person will do. It is the purpose of the similar techniques that makes it different like when in judo the purpose is to take down an opponent to the ground so ground fight technique and concept will be applied; in Karate the throw is to outbalance the opponent to let it fall to the ground so that it can not fight or defend efficiently against kicks and other strike.
I agree
I think it's the same with atemi waza, some strikes in Judo can be compared with strikes in Karate. I'm starting to believe that techniques are not credited but discovered in this day in age. Martial arts seems to be funny in that regard.
Agreed
Most of the Karate scenes here are from Kudo Karate. I love Kudo Karate so much.
Another thing about the Ura Nage is that I think it can be used in Judo especially if the opponent is trying to reach for a high collar grip. Or if someone tries to go for the Georgian grip. That Ura nage would be perfect in those scenarios.
Exactly
I never realised they were this throws in common. Would have useful to me in match with a muai thai guy who broke me with his knee kicks lol. I have seen also go ju ryu karate videos with some throws that looks like aikido throws (Uchi Kaiten Nage, Tenchi Nage).
Grappling has always been present in Goju Ryu, Okinawan Goju Ryu at least. However, the focus is striking the opponent to ''soften'' them so you can take them down and finish them. If they fall because of striking, even better.
I've often wondered if that is still a tani otoshi when it's executed from a rear body lock? In some cases it look like daki wakare.
Daki wakare you lift up
@@Chadi ok I thought daki wakare was more of a twisting action rather than a lifting one but I'm no Judoka, only a BJJ guy who wishes he could do Judo. Either way I like the karate variation, it's one of the few takedowns I can pull off in rolls.
another great video Chadi !. ..I have old karate friends who have certain grips and throws to their reportiore in kumite . it is surprising how many win using O soto gari and de ashi barai , because it is very fast and difficult to counter attack . keep up the good work ! :) - cheers !
Thank you
Although the video is from a particular school that focuses a lot on throws, the original complete karate-do system includes take downs, leg sweeps, etc. Unfortunately many studios have been focusing strictly on competition, which allows a severely limited number of these techniques, which unfortunately has created a number of instructors who never familiarized with throws, but any instructor I have encountered with 35 years of experience or more, practice and teach o-goshi, ippon seoi nage, tomoe nage, etc.
A lot of arts rules are restricting
@@Chadi Competition rules are restrictive, true. But I was taught "this is competition, this is real fight" I was lucky enough to be taught by instructors who cared about passing the entire art to us, not just the sports part.
You might want to have a look at the videos of the karate fights of Rafael Aghayev. He merges karate with judo really well.
Will do
If you watch old Okinawan karate practice there are lots of techniques to tumble an opponent followed by strikes or strike followed by a technique to tumble the opponent. I think in Okinawan karate, tumbling to the ground an opponent is to make the opponent can not fight efficiently while the one standing can strike the downed opponent with kicks and running around the helpless opponent while striking him. in karate the ground fighting technique is different the defender is in sideways to protect its groin area while kicking. In MMA they can sit with their groin open since it is prohibited to hit the groin.
Great video!!
Great video! I'm curious, what's the video that you used for the karate throws? I'd be interested in watching it on its own if possible
ruclips.net/video/0IZZEf78QAQ/видео.html
Can you consider karate as an Okinawan koryu jujutsu? This being said, imagine taking a karate school and categorizing the ryuha techniques using judo categories, ie
Atemiwaza(the most frequent)
Nagewaza (like in this video)
Shimewaza (few but they exist)
Katamewaza (the categories of the school's variations of each joinlock, example of a scenario:- is it under udegatame or hizagatame etc)
Osaekomi(though from my observation, this category has very limited variations in the oldschool karate ryuha)
I don't think Okinawan budoka and Japanese budoka were extremely different, just different in preference of technique. Remember Okinawan sumo is an ancestor to karate just like Japanese sumo is an ancestor to jujutsu and judo
That's actually a great idea and would make Karate incredibly effective for the streets and to transition into MMA
Really a nice video! One can clearly see how much effort you put into your videos. So: alone for this both thumbs up!
Only nitpick i have for this video: in Karate Uke is the defender and Tori is the attacker. Uke is used for the defender because he/she receives the attack of the aggressor.
One thing about Karate today, that disturbs me a lot: The fact that so many Karateka have appearently no clue about grappling and the numerous throwing techniques that are part of Karate. Instead many focus only on the stuff you see on tournaments. This is very sad, if you ask me. But it lifts me up to see that a non-Karateka knows this. Many modern Karateka should feel ashamed by the fact that a non-Karateka knows more about their art than they themselves.
On the other hand: it is not rare to find a master of Karate and he/she also happens to hold a Dan-degree in Judo as well. E.g. Tetsuhiko Asai. He was a Ku-Dan Karateka (posthumusly promoted to 10th Dan) and he also had Ni-Dan in Judo. My own master is a Ku-Dan in Karate, Hachi-Dan in Yamanni-Ryu and he also has Dan degrees in Judo and Kendo too.
Again: Well done, Chadi!
This is very evident in karate combat . There are a lot of fantastic throws , arguably more than most judo bouts in recent years, plus they don’t have the ridiculous rules the ijf introduced which banned some of the greatest throws in judo
Outstanding! Thank you!
I appreciate it
Ayyy this is gonna be good!
Hope you enjoyed it
Hello Chadi! Big Fan of your videos.
I´m a Karateka and Judoka from Venezuela.
You should check Funakoshi Gichin's throws that is real Karate throws adapted from Judo.
Will do
0:40 The Heian Shodan has a zenkutsu shift to kiba dachi I have never seen before.
Ashihara Kara Te focuses heavily on evasive Taisabaki. It blends well with Judo.
Indeed
Ashi-barai in Karate has many applications for offence and defence, as well as unique counters to it, like using the momentum from an opponent's de-ashi-barai to hook kick him to the head.
Ashi-barai in Karate (from my experience) only score if followed up with a punch or kick. Technically, it's not the sweep that scores, it's the follow-up strike. Often the goal is to break your opponent's balance (kuzushi) and concentration to set up a punch or kick.
I have a black belt in Shotokan Karate (1988), so my perspective is from my experience. Karate is a term used very loosely, and most of it is weak these days. Then again, judo used to be much tougher than it is today. I remember the hardness of real tatami! (Straw packed mats.)
SHOTOKAN Art Of War shows some good karate footage, for anyone interested.
Thank you for your insight! I find karate's approach fascinating
@@Chadi Thank you for the videos!
I think you would be interested in Val Mijailovic's Karate Sweeps videos. You should check them out on RUclips.
@@marty6522 will do
Nice video :)
Great video. But what style of karate is the One in this video?
I think the video of karate ( with half sleeves) is Kudo which is a hybrid style karate with grappeling techniques.
(I know that in traditional karate styles there are grappeling techniques...)
Kudo
The difference between Judo a martial way/sport and Karate meant to be a civilian self defence. Is that in throwing techniques is that in one you are not trying to hurt the opponent in the other you are. The karate throws mean that you shouldn't give your assailant an opening as you try to up-end him, maybe hit him first ... again a difference in approach
They approach them differently yes
Kudo in Toronto, Canada is now live. Dm me for more info. Oss
Thank you
For everybody who is interested in the NAGE WAZA of Karate. There is the book Karate do- Kyohan by Gichin Funakoshi (the father of modern (Shotokan-) Karate as big of a figure like Kano for us Judoka) which is avaible on most bookstores and online plattforms.
In chapter 6 Nage-Waza you can clearly see that Karate has it own "versions" so to speak of the standard judo thros. Osoto Gari is f.e. called Byo-bu Daoshi Folding scren topple. The detailed instructions suspects that this was developed in the system and not imported
For further details you could also check out Iain Abernathys videos on Karates 9 throws. Just type it in youtube
Because in the end of athe day. A good throw is a good throw.
Osu. Keep training!
Thank you
Sorry I correct the video was:
Practical Kata Bunkai: Some Karate Throws
This bloke Iain Abernathy I mentioned even did a similar video as you maybe it is interesting seing somebodys perspective from "the other side" on the subject:
ruclips.net/video/ZEeZ-0bjS0c/видео.html
From a non competition point of view the synthesis of Judo and Karate makes sense. Smashing someone in the head to soften them up saves a lot of work and improves the odds.
I watched a video by Jesse Enkamp and if memory serve me correctly the Okinawas developed Karate as a complete system. Then it was butchered for marketing purposes.
Kudo looks like a great art and makes sense.
Very nice techniques!
Indeed
This is fascinating.. that even Karate has grappling techniques.. so in reality it wasn't the Gracies that 'invented' ground fighting.. it's just that all other martial arts forgot that grappling is also important to focus on.
So if anything, The Gracies were late to the party.
Early Judo had more ground techniques. Look up Kosen Judo, it's like Judo+BJJ.
BJJ = Basically Just Judo lol
they have not forgotten ...
former JUDO guest by injury
Bill "Superfoot" Wallace
The Gracie UFC Conspiracy:
ruclips.net/video/I_tMkWoUN18/видео.html
bonus, good interview
Fighting IQ Is Superior To Power and Speed • Ft. Bill Wallace
ruclips.net/video/kC_tSu79tZY/видео.html
a reminder that Gracie do not have a monopoly
ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=gracie+hunter
Kazushi Sakuraba WIKIPEDIA:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazushi_Sakuraba
Ryan Dartez 100% correct. I did Judo 40 years ago as a teen and we did a lot of groundwork. When we fought we continued to the ground. As l understand it the Japanese instructor who initially taught the Gracies was a judoka. So bjj is essentially judo. The main difference is that over time they've come to focus almost exclusively on groundwork and they've retained things like leglocks which were included in the old pre wwii judo.
@@ThePsychoguy my country's Judo Federation hosts a Newaza competition each year. But BJJ clubs can attend only if they are affiliated (AKA pay each year for nothing).
Personally grappling is the best. To me it is way more practical to me for two reasons.
1: in self defense it is stronger legally than hitting your opponent. Though I believe if SD is an interest you should have a solid striking “in case”. Plus it good to know what getting hit is like.
2: Judo in particular has better advantages. You get a guy off balance you have taken his “power”. You limit his ability to move, grab and less power in his hits. It is almost like you are in a bubble where you make the decisions. Once you have taken his power he is yours. Also if you were just a striker only it is “toe to toe”, better odds of injury, your opponent is able to move, bob, weave and hit with full power.
I miss Judo soon hopefully we will become one again
100%
Buen Video!!! Creo que ambas disciplinas son maravillosas, pero combinadas crean sinergia!!! Casualidad que las fuerzas especiales de casi todo el mundo las incluyan en CQB!!!. Éxitos!!!!
Gracias Mario
Ashihara Karate has a good mix of striking and throwing. There's also Kyokushin Budokai, which has ground fighting too.
Will check it out
When you do, I would also recommend looking at Enshin Karate. Kancho Joko Ninomiya, who was a student under Ashihara and Oyama, originally studied judo. The Sabaki tournament he hosts allows certain types of throws in competition. Enshin has increased emphasis on takedowns in recent years.
@@daremo6381 thank you
I have black belts in Shotokan Karate as well as Kodokan Judo. I don't really view it as one against the other. Fighting is fighting, they are different parts of the whole as I see it.
It's a comparison not one against the other
Fantastic it's very much like my karate throws
Awesome
Thanks for following through with my request
You're welcome
Why didn't you talk about the 9 throws of funakoshi? Those throws were pretty unique compared to judo techniques. Traditional karate has so much unique takedowns.👍
You're right i should have
What happened? Did I get censored for trashing Shotokan Karate?
What do you mean?
@@Chadi I wrote a comment that disappeared. Could be just a technical glitch, and if you say you had nothing to do with it, that's good enough for me.
i am not sure about this video. i mean,karate has several styles, with several ways to use a technique,while judo has maybe 2 styles,but is always judo and the way to use a technique is the same. for example,ashi barai shown in the video in used probably by a kyokushinkai karateka,a contact karate style, while the same technique shown by a shotakan karateka would be different because shotokan is not a contact style
shotokan is a style not a "tournament rule".
I'm not an expert on Karate to be honest i just showed the similar throws and how they approached them differently
Hidehiko Yoshida vs. Masaaki Satake
ruclips.net/video/wrdzqx4HrJ8/видео.html
nage waza and atemi is exactly the same thing, there is no difference. in fact as you can see at 7,50 there is an irimi nage, a throw which is at once also a strike, which brings aikido more close to karate than judo, if we exclude Mifune and Kano.
I watched the video and feel there is way too much judo put into the mix. Not only is Karate
closer to Aikido, it is probably more of an early jiu jitsu style that has a lot of striking as an emphasis. This explains why Funakoshi Sensei thought Otsuki Sensei had studied the Ryu kyu arts previously on their first encounter.
Funakoshi Sensei brought over 15 kata c. 1925. It is important to copy the movements as closely
as possible to the kata. It is muscle memory. Much of Shotokan has been stylized and sporterized since the late 1930's. They changed many movements to make them safer to practice and look pretty. But the version 1.0 is there. Likewise, judo came into being by cleaning up some of the old jiu jitsu techniques.
Things can change.
I just don't understand why not considering the all history in the evolution, and just telling the modern evolution, forgetting all the rest.
I study s.k.i.f and kase ha karate both sensei Kanazawa and sensei Kase were high level Judokas .
Check out Patrick McCarthy grate karate historian.
More judo in karate and more karate in judo i think?
Will do
I come from a region where the study of karate is exclusively striking. However, whenever I got into a confrontation, I would freeze whenever someone grabbed me, due to my lack of knowledge in grappling. Thus began my journey in the study of jujutsu
@RobertL
Unfortunately I live in a country where they look down upon fighting arts, and the only fighting styles available are karate, tkd and boxing. There is only one bjj gym in the whole country and it's so expensive that you've gotta b a rich kid and have the interest to do it. Furthermore, cross-training was extremely looked down upon. I saw ufc 3 months into training and it really opened my eyes. Personally I got good at striking because of my karate training, kumite competitions, also cross sparring with like-minded boxers and tkd guys. Plus I've gotten into a few serious fights here and there (not that I'm proud, but I've faired well in them).
But whenever i'd get into a clinching situation at first I wouldn't know how to handle the fight. I started incorporating a leg sweep (learned from kata, of all places!) and I became good at it. I saw a window that most of my opponents weren't seeing and I decided to practice in the clinching range.
Later, we got the internet and I discovered judo. I thought to myself "wow, these moves could really level up my game!" and I started researching grappling. But since I had no one to train with, I had to learn them during actual application, which is easier said than done.
Fortunately I got the opportunity do my masters degree London for two years, and the first thing I did was look for a jiu-jitsu gym! It did wonders for my ground game 😊. They had guys training for mma, so they had non-grappling sparring sessions, of which I also participated in to test my striking. But still learning grappling was the main objective in this gym.
I went back to home (and back to the local would-be assailants, lol) but I was better prepared. Im not saying I'm an excellent fighter, my main aim in training martial arts is to be better prepared for fighting situations. My striking is good, but now im better educated on the ground than my would-be assailants. And in the words of Rickson Gracie, 95% of fights end up on the ground (my striking's got the other 5% covered)
@RobertL
I don't have an official belt ranking but iv beaten black belts in kumite competitions in my youth. And nowadays I can't join a fighting gym coz of their dogmatic training. So I train with my sister in law in the park. I show her stuff like boxing blocks instead of the traditional karate blocks, adding takedowns and clinch striking. People ask "what's that you're training?" I tell them modern karate but I train the stuff that works.
Nage waza and Ne Waza typically feature more often in Okinawan karate styles, than mainland Japanese styles, in my experience.
Thank you for sharing
Waza you talking about?
Отличный ролик.
Chito-Ryu Karate-do = Traditional Okinawan Karate (i.e. Naha-te, Shuri-te and Tomari-te) + Judo/Ju-Jutsu. Proficiency in many different throws and joint locks are a major requirement in this style.
"Kudo" is another... a mixture of Kyushokin and Judo.
Thank you
I have to disagree here. You have taken Kyukoshin to prove show the throws are being used. Kyukoshin is modern Karate with a curriculum from 1950s-60s that finalized it's curriculum to include throws from judo to get past Siamese boxing and it's sweeps during the early challenge matches of the 1960s.
A more appropriate comparison would have been taking the bunkai of an Okinawan art but you will realise that Okinawan arts seldom hint at anything more than sweeps and trips and are widely different in application from the mainland arts. Some people try to interpret some of these bunkai as throws that look similar to Judo but they are mostly a bit of a stretch of imagination and modern day interpretation. Okinawans and Japanese weren't exactly the friendliest to each other and Tote was practiced more to defend against the Samurai so it has little exchange with the Samurai arts. Most influences of Japanese terminologies like atemi Waza, Nage Waza, tachi Waza came after the Meiji era and sometimes much later.
Thank you for clearing it up
So, karate took these throws from judo???
Some
the karate here is not traditional karate but Daidojuku kudo
Present. 👍🙏.
If I was going to compare similar techniques from Judo and a karate, I think I would be comparing self-defense Judo to Karate, not sport Judo. This really doesn’t make tell us much.
Love how you mention judo has atemi waza. Judo is not just a sport! Judo has strikes, leg grabs , small joint and knee manipulation. Kata guruma, te guruma and kibusu were my favorite techniques oh but you can't teach them try them in randori...B's!
I dislike the titles like “Judo vs. Karate” or “Wrestling vs. Aikido” or “Boxing vs. Muai Thai”. It is always a fighter A against fighter B, and of course, everything depends on the agreed rules. Sometimes fighter practicing Judo will defeat fighter practicing Karate, and in some other case the outcome will be different. It mainly depends on the skill of the fighter, and only slightly on the art he or she is practicing.
Vs means comparisons not a battle
What you show here as Karate is Kyokushin! Oyama had a black belt in Judo and incorporated it. There is even ne waza in Kyokushin. So you dont show distinct Karate throws here but just Judo that get incorporated in a special style of Karate. You often have these rude mistakes in your claims.
kudo??... if karates roots are in China then Shouai jiao fit best to karate :)
Shuai jiao soon
While karate has almost all the strikes catalogued like open hand strike, closed hand, fore arm strike, kicks like mavashi etc. and combines striking with grappling it lacks key stuff like punches to the head, they are pretty much open to head strikes which makes them easy targets and no real passive defence training , also most moves haven't got natural combination movement in them and they lack mid section movement, range control and the footwork of boxing. Their grappling moves and submissions are very little and Ofc not so technical as in judo. Karate also have a lot of ancient types of training which is cool but again not enough. I can mostly accept it as a knowledge encyclopedia of fighting and training and use it to learn some stuff but not so much as an alive combat system good for modern self defense.
Karate has a great ability of combining the world of grappling and striking
@@Chadi Let's talk about it! A karate form is a specific set of movements with a beginning and an end like you show in the video, training this way assumes that the opponent will always do the same thing, the answer will be the same and with the same result , unfortunately battle is chaotic so after you do the first part of the form chain then the reaction can be different thus the result will be different and uncontrollable, this can happen in any part of the form, by breaking down the form to let's say the strike used and the throw used you can actively choose the answer depending on the momentum. What Rikson Gracie talk about invisible ju jitsu is about accurately breaking down the muscles used from any technique to counter your opponents reaction to the detail which is not tought by karate forms. The varieties of the techniques, reactions and movements even to the detail of small muscles are so many that karate is just not enough to teach you how to combine striking and grappling . Katas and forms is a story already told, learn to write and create your own story man!
@@nikolaosmandamandiotis8970 yes i agree but they do spar and polish their techniques judo has kata and Randori as well
@@Chadi Yes they do, but with no head punches training you lose half of the striking skillset that's not good as a mainly striking art, I can see karateka trying to evolve though and I give them that , I have also seen honorable mentions of karateka out there that are actually good fighters but that's a bit rare I am afraid. I hope they keep the good elements of the art and evolve to keep their cultural aspect high.
You're better off training boxing for three months, than doing any style of karate for five years.
uuuugh we knoe karate and judo has its pro's and con's. We are in 2020 people and you sre still comparing which one may be the best or better - all in unrealistic scenarios. Rather show how they can complement each other and give us something valuable to learn.
If you want to explore this comparison, here is a very good exploration from the karate perspective.
ruclips.net/video/ZEeZ-0bjS0c/видео.html
Thank you
❤
didier lupo bunkai u tube is amazing the real karate
For some reason every time I watch your channel I feel like throwing. haha.
You might like the Tai Ki Budo Kai guys: ruclips.net/video/YmWsGstY0wg/видео.html
I'm glad i can inspire you to throw, just don't hurt people
Osu👍
🤙🏻
I bjj and shotokan.
Good combo
@@Chadi thank you
Okinawa is real karate is complete system not japan its mostly striking
Thanks for sharing
There are so many styles of karate. Shotokan,Tang Soo do, Goju ryu, Shito ryu, Budokan,and of course kyokushin. Karate is a good martial art because it is easy to learn and just about anyone can do it and become proficient in it after several years of hard work.
Karate is great
I disagree with the comparison. I studied judo from Japanese 4th dans, reaching Shodan. I also learnt judo from a Korean 5th Dan Judo (Yudo) instructor who also taught Tang Soo Do. I next studied Shaolin Temple Boxing 5 Ancestors which was reported to have influenced Okinawa-te. Next I learned Taekwondo (Odo-Kwan) and Hapkido from a 7th Dan Taekwondo master who was a Korean Army captain. (Odo-Kwan is influenced by Shotokan) I reached 2nd Dan in Taekwondo and was his assistant instructor. No, the training and techniques are different fundamentally. Only similarities are personal applications by individual practitioners who may have dabbled in both arts. No pure karate practitioner would be able to throw me (I have never been successfully throw in judo free-fighting over 5 years). I have also trained and matched off with Karatekas frequently. However, being from judo as well as Hapkido, I can easily throw a Taekwondo practitioner if that is “allowed” in any match off. It’s an individual application not endemic to either style but Taekwondo and most kicking styles are conceptually vulnerable to a good judoka.You fight the way you train and the training is different. My Korean Judo instructor said it best- Karate and Judo develop different type of muscles in the trainee. You can’t be good in both.
Karate is a joke