The secret to folding in No Limit Hold'em: When to let go
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
- Learn when to properly fold and why through this call in NL Hold'em.
To access a free lesson on "5th Street Chicken" mentioned at 6:49 click here: bit.ly/FREE-LESSON-5TH-ST-CHI...
0:00 - Intro
0:33 - Preflop
1:28 - Flop
4:02 - Turn
6:49 - "5th Street Chicken"
8:30 - River
13:03 - Hero Decision
13:09 - BB Reveal
14:08 - CO Reveal
Checkout our latest Crush Live Poker Free Training videos and podcasts here: bit.ly/FREE-CLP-TRAINING
To submit a hand for consideration for the call-in show read instructions here: crushlivepoker.com/support#fa....
Join the CLP Discord community and follow our socials:
► / discord
► / crushlivepoker
► / crushlivepoker
► / crushlivepoker 
Игры
![Gunna - one of wun [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w_JtBYqMgk8/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm surprised bart glazed over the fact villain snap jams on such a dynamic for changing River. The number one tale as old as Time bluff tell
True on that but the fact that he’s raising turn while the other guy is already all in is such a massive punt if he’s bluffing. I don’t think it’s right to assume the villain is that big of a blockhead although he was. Live reads are good in close spots but I don’t think this is close. (Even tho the result said otherwise)
I'm glad we finally got to the psychological breakdown of the villain and why he may be shoving this river, it's incredibly relevant. I also don't think he gave two seconds thought to the main pot all in since it was only 440.
Another case of the snap jam on the board changing river being a bluff. still the most reliable timing tell in live poker.
Nice call!
This one was really tough for me. I've heard Bart say he's not a big believer in live tells, but also just came from a video of him making a call with queen high with a live tell on turn. At any rate, I like hero's call here. There is a lot I can say about it, but it starts with the river snap jam on a nut changing river. How many videos are on this channel where that's been a bluff? I could also point out that when complexity is added, there is no "long run". That's a long explanation but briefly it's just a figment of human imagination. The weird part of the reveal is that the all in short villain is showing excitement over a straight as opposed to a flush. So that live tell was wrong, but it worked for hero. I thought the same as caller described the action - if V2 has a flush & I [hero] have the Kh, then how many flushes does V1 have. We also had the live tell of V1 being frustrated & losing & re-buying. I also thought V1 not raising flop was key. How much A5 or 22 does he have then? 55 gets way cut down by turn. Is V1 raising a flush draw on turn with a player all in & the board pairing?
Anyways, I did not think this was a crazy river call by hero.
My immediate reaction is snap fold.
But not a lot hands actually make sense for V.
Boats/quads that decides to slow play their set/two pair on the flop despite it being a draw heavy board but then decide to fast play when they make the nuts/near nuts on the turn?
Flushes that decided not to semi-bluff their draw on the flop but semi-bluff turn when they could be drawing dead?
4x that somehow call a huge raise next to act preflop and a huge bet on the flop?
5x that isn’t scared of boats/flushes/4x on the river and also decides to call the big raises/bets preflop and on the flop?
Against a straightforward player it’s still a snap fold, but with the description of V I’d say it’s closer than initially thought.
V's turn raise is repping 5x, and the most likely 5x combos would seem to be 54 or 53 - middle pair with a straight draw. 54 is a straight on the river, and 53 is a boat. On flops like this, I'd rather semi-bluff with a draw on a nut-changing turn, where I can rep a stronger hand that just improved, rather than raise on the flop, where my opponent is going to 3B a lot of AX hands on this wet board, because I can't have many very strong hands. If we raise turn IP and hero calls, he's going to check a lot of rivers. He might be trapping with a boat, but that's the risk of playing draws on paired boards.
@@1vailchris 54s and 53s are only 4 combos. If you give V a ton of flush draws then I guess he has a solid amount of value hands.
But on the other if you’re giving V 53s and 54s after preflop and flop action we’re saying he’s quite a loose player.
Probably still a losing call I think against almost all Vs.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj this discussion is interesting because of the wide divide in opinions. Some of us are saying this is a loose call with AK, because we're losing to all of V's thick value, and V doesn't have very many bluffs on the river, as played. Others are saying this is an easy call, because so many opponents will bluff on this runout, with a wide range, apparently including middling pairs.
This hand is off the rails when hero raises 7.5x pre and gets two callers, especially the BB with the CO still in the hand. Someone in the comments said the BB's (and I assume CO's) call is indicative of middling pairs, which is why they say AK is a call.
What is the thick value for V here, that gets played as a raise on the turn and a jam on the river? The most obvious thick value I could see playing that way would be 54 or 53, but I don't see those hands calling a 7.5x pre-flop raise, unless the game is just super-loose. If we don't give V those 54 or 53 combos (and if not, then we can also rule out 52, a flopped 2P and turned boat), and we think A5/A2/55/22 are raising flop (I would raise those hands, almost 100% of the time), then the only thick value V can have on the river becomes suited hands that raised turn as a semi-bluff (QX hearts and 64 hearts), and made their flush on the river (which seem like reasonable calls pre-flop and reasonable semi-bluffs on the turn).
So we're folding AK here because we're losing to flushes that semi-bluffed turn, or folding because we think V has a hand he shouldn't have called with pre-flop (54, 53, 52, 64), or might have slow-played something on the flop (A5/A2/55/22). If we call, it's because we think V is calling pre with all his middling pairs, and is going to start a bluff by raising with them on the turn, and then will continue that bluff by jamming river, or we think V is jamming with total air, because he's an idiot.
I don't think I'm ever calling a 7.5x open with 54/53/52/64 suited in the BB, with the CO still to act behind me. I'd think it depends on the stack sizes, which would have to be either super-deep or super-short, nothing in-between. But if I did call with those hands for some reason, I'm probably going to call the flop with 54 and 53, raise with 52, and call with 6h4h. I'm raising with all of those hands on this turn, either for value with 5x, or as a semi-bluff with 64 hearts.
I would probably call pre with some Qx suited hands and some middling pairs, like 77/88, but I'm folding middling pairs on the turn, when I haven't improved. I'm never turning 66-88 into a bluff here. But I'm sometimes going to be starting a bluff with QX of hearts, when the board pairs the middle card, because that's a card I can credibly rep, maybe, if my pre-flop calling range includes 54 or 53, as unlikely as that seems. I'd be more likely to do it if I think my opponent is bluffing too often, and folding his weaker top-pair hands to raises at a high frequency, but not 3B'ing my raise too often.
So, if I'm V here, my turn raise is either for value with 54/53, or a semi-bluff with a heart draw, but I don't need to bluff river with my heart draws, because I made my flush. As V, I'm going to have a lot more flushes here than boats or straights, and if my turn raise gets called, I'm probably not jamming river with too many of those flushes, when my opponent could have a boat. I'm jamming with my 5x boats, obviously, because I'm blocking hero's A5 combos, but probably only betting with QJ/QT/Q9 hearts, and only some of the time, because they block hero from having KQ/KJ/KT/K9 of hearts.
So, if we think V's pre-flop call / flop-call / turn-raise / river-jam range includes 4 combos of 53 and 54, and maybe 4 combos of Qx hearts (QJ/QT/Q9/Q8 - and possibly more), and 64 hearts, then AK is obviously a fold, because we lose to all of them.
But if people are calling with AK, because they think opponents are going to be bluffing here with middling pairs, or even "any two cards", then what are we folding? If hero's open range is 99-AA, AKo, KQs (hearts in this case), and the better suited aces (AQ/AJ/AT/A5), all of those should call, because they're all beating all of V's air-ball bluffs and all those middling pairs (66-88), and a good chunk of V's value.
Like you, my immediate thought was this is a snap fold with AK. My initial thoughts on this hand were that if I were the V here, my only logical bluffs on the turn are hands that are improved to a flush on the river, so they're no longer bluffs, and that's why I'd fold AK in hero's spot. And if I'm folding AK because I think V doesn't have any bluffs on this runout, I'm folding almost my entire opening range, and only calling with AA and A5, which is just six combos, and probably KQ of hearts, for 1 more combo. But if we're only calling V's jam with 7 combos of top/2nd boats and the nut flush, opponents can liberally bluff us with a lot of hands we beat.
To me this comes down to what V thinks our opening range is pre-flop (and most V's aren't going to give us credit for too many boats or flushes on this runout), what we think V's calling range is pre-flop (how loose are these guys?), and whether or not we think V is capable of bluffing with air on this runout, when we raise pre, c-bet flop, and bet-call turn after BB calls flop and CO jams, then BB raises our turn bet. Not too many opponents are going to jam river as a bluff after we take this line, and call their turn raise.
The conditions for a call here would seem to rely on us thinking V is capable of understanding our pre-flop opening range doesn't include many very strong hands that can call their river jam, and thus V would be capable of bluffing the river with worse pairs (the two conditions combined), or they're just idiots who are going to raise turn and jam river with any two cards. The conditions for folding rely on us thinking that V is capable of calling pre with a wide range, but not capable of turning a worse hand into a bluff on this runout.
It's hard for me to credit any opponent as being capable of BOTH calling pre with hands like 54 and 53, AND being able to turn middling pairs into a bluff on this runout. I'd think an opponent who calls pre with 54 or 53 is more likely to bluff with air than a middling pair. An opponent would have to be extremely good to reason their way to bluffing with a middling pair because they think we'll fold all but 7 combos in our pre-flop opening range. My thinking would be that they either made a terrible call pre with 54 or 53, and got lucky with this runout, or they made a terrible bluff on turn AND river with total air, or maybe they're some sort of genius doing this with a worse 1P, or they made a reasonable pre-flop call and semi-bluff on the turn with a draw that got there on the river.
Calling with AK comes down to how often we think V's are making terrible (or genius) bluffs on both turn and river, after we take this line. The problem with calling here is that it requires V to be an idiot who doesn't think or a genius who also gives us credit for only calling with a narrow sliver of our open range. When our call relies on V being at one or the other extreme end of the player intelligence scale, it's a hero call, and it's going to lose more often than it wins, I think.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj sorry for the super-long post above. The TL;DR is that depending on how we view this hand, our calling range on the river is either going to be super-narrow, with just top/2nd boats (AA/A5) or nut flushes (KX of hearts), or super-wide. My thinking is that most opponents aren't going to have many bluffs on this runout after we call their turn raise, so our calling range should be super-narrow, and AK is a fold.
But a lot of the comments (and the caller here) apparently think we can call down super-wide, and AK is a call, because a lot of opponents are going to be bluffing here with all sorts of hands. My problem with that reasoning is that for V to be bluffing here, he's either got to be a total idiot hoping we fold a hand they wouldn't (like AK), or a super-genius who is also giving us credit for being able to fold a huge chunk of our pre-flop opening range (including AK). The rest of the population is going to have way more thick-value here (5x, straights and flushes) than bluffs, I think, which is why I think we can comfortably fold AK.
@@1vailchris I think my feeling is that V has less thick value that just happily shoves the river than I initially thought.
Most V’s still won’t have any bluffs though so it’s a snap fold. They’ve got to be either tilted or a maniac to consider calling.
Thanks
Question for all the people commenting that this is a call with AKo, because V has a lot of bluffs: if you're calling with AKo here, what hands in your pre-flop opening range are you folding?
Just giving hero the "standard" pre-flop opening range of 99-AA, AKs/AKo, AQs/AQo, the better suited aces (AJ/AT/A2-A5), and KQs (in this case, hearts), everything in that range beats all of V's bluffs. So if you're calling with AK, are you calling with the rest of your range, and if not, what are you folding? Why fold anything in your pre-flop opening range, if you think V is turning every middling pair and a bunch of air-ball nonsense into bluffs with his turn raise and river jam?
AK happened to win here. But our opening range has enough better hands in it that we don't need to make a hero call. We have AA/A5s for boats. We have KQ for a flush. Sure, that's only 7 combos, but if we hero-call with AKo, then logically, it would seem that we're calling with our entire opening range. But if so, what value hands are we beating here?
If it's a loose game, where people are calling 7.5x pre-flop opens from the SB and finding these outlandish bluffs by raising turn with middling pairs or total air, V could show up here with a lot of value hands we wouldn't expect, like A4, 54, 53, and 64, and we're just lighting money on fire hero-calling with AKo. If it's a tight game where people aren't calling those big pre-flop raises or continuing post-flop with garbage, then V wouldn't be jamming the river as a bluff, because all his logical semi-bluffs on the turn are made flushes on the river, and we're just lighting money on fire hero-calling with AKo.
This call with AK is only profitable in a super-loose game, and only if opponents are so tilted they're making insane plays like raising turn and jamming river with middling pairs or total air.
Very tough spot to hero call. We're losing to 22, 33, any 4x, any 5x, and a few over-played flush draws that got there. Hard to think even a tilted V is going to frustration shove with weaker 1P hands. It sounded like hero thought the CO made the flush on the river, leading him to call, but CO didn't have the flush, and BB could still have a lot of hands that lose to a flush but still beat hero. As soft as the game sounds, playing with fish who go on tilt seems like it would create a ton of variance because of spots like this one.
"Saved by Stupidity" is what I like to call it. Low stakes is filled with this but if you find the rite game, it's worth putting up with it. I drive 1.5 hours to the room I play at.
@@danielmeuler2877 Who was stupid here? Hero or villain? I think jamming 77 on this river is insane, but it would have gotten a fold from a lot of good players with better but not good enough hands. Hero calling with AK seems pretty loose, and his reasoning having to do with CO seems to have been wrong, but it worked out for him.
@@1vailchrisI was commenting on the very last thing 1vailchris was saying. Not the hand Bart broke down. Basically people on Tilt doing dumb shit at the lower stakes and them getting rewarded for bad plays.
@@danielmeuler2877 Oh, so you wanted to remind me of why I swear I'm going to quit playing poker every few weeks? Why do you hate me, bro?
@1vailchris I was just agreeing low stakes makes it easier for Vilins to play like Donks and their bad plays to often are rewarded. No hate from this direction. We are in the same Boat trying to Slay these Fish.
Bart, when and where can we see you playing high stakes poker? Are there opportunities to see you with Daniel Negreanu, Justin Bonomo, Tom Dwan, Phil Ivey, Garrett Adelstein and others of that level? Thanks!
Couple things : 1 - villain can be overvaluing AQ with q hearts, 2 - some villains who play side pots lose all logic and will focus on remaking guys off of their hand to be “hero’s” or something. 3 - some 5’s will check back and we hold the nut flush K hearts so we block a lot of flushes. 4 - his boat hands would have all been slow played and not many villains would wanna slow play with the flush draw out there and a side pot going on.
We know the all-in player likely has a flush because of the live tell. Hero has the K and the A is on the board and the all-in player has some of the hearts. There are just not that many strong flushes left for opponent to have. Yet with the flush coming in, hands like trips have a hard time making a big bet.
If you think opponent has any big bluffs at all, this seems a fairly likely place for one.
Wait what happened to the CO at the end 🤔🤔folded (how did I miss it)
Hometown St Petersburgian here
@5:40 thank you; finally; I hear over and over again durrr durrr no one ever bluffs into a dry side pot
Obviously Bart is really good and knows very well what he's talking about, but it's funny how often he ends up, as in this video, just completely baffled by the reveal of villain's cards, just goes to show how absolutey random low stakes play can be sometimes.
I've learned that if you play at lower stakes you kinda got to take Bart's advice with a grain of salt. His advice imo is much better for middle to high middle stakes poker.
I played in a game like this a couple weeks back. Dude called my 3-bet pre with 53 of diamonds then jams the flop with a gutter when I had AK of Diamond with the top. In most cases I at least take a moment to think but I snap called. Paraphrasing the action here of course but I don’t know what’s been up as of late. Games just have become so bizarre overall. People might as well be lighting money on fire and throwing it on the table. I haven’t attempted to play 2/5 in a minute as 1/2 and 1/3 have been the most profitable games for me lately.
I don't know if it is that bad of a call by Hero. I mean Hero did go 7.5x pre and BB next to act calls that, isn't that generally middle pp heavy? If anything couldn't villain also just have weaker A's here and be overvaluing their hand?
I would think if V has A5 they would have raised immediately on the flop due to flush draws present. Even at this level most people are going to fold 22 pre to the action, unless they are a station or maniac. I think on turn V can only have 56s and that is probably stretching it a little bit with the action.
So by the river, we really only lose to 1 combo of 55, if you want to give them full combos of 44, and maybe some flushes. But the Ah on board and Kh in your hand severely limits their possible flush holdings. And now you beat all weaker A's and bluffs, with only 680 behind into a pot 2.1k already. I'm calling most of the time.
It seems like you're trying to apply rational logic to a hand involving multiple players acting irrationally. Hero's 7.5x preflop raise should fold out most, if not all the hands that could take BB or CO's line post-flop, but this seems like a game where players are super-wide with their pre-flop continue ranges, and just clicking buttons post-flop.
Hero bets a little more than 2/3 pot on flop. I'd think most 2P and sets would want to raise on this wet board, where hero can continue with a lot of Ax combos. There shouldn't be very many combo draws (6h4h/6h3h) that call pre. With the Kh in hero's hand, there aren't many flush draw combos that will want to continue here, so the most likely flatting range for V would be some 5x combo with a draw, most likely 54, or possibly 53.
When V raises turn, that's what he's repping - 5x, most likely 54 or 53, that makes the wheel or a boat on the river. But if we think V might have been raising turn with some bluffs, like 6h4h or QhXh, those hands got there on the river.
CO jamming a short stack on the flop with top pair and an inside straight draw isn't terrible, but I don't think we can put a lot of middling pairs in V's range when V calls flop, raises turn, and hero calls. Hero's going to have some boats, flushes and straights here, and rarely worse than AQ for value.
Jamming with any middling pair, or even a weaker AX is insane. But hero's call is pretty loose, even with the Kh in his hand. It only makes money when V is wildly stabbing on both turn and river, which is rare, even for opponents on tilt.
On turn would be all in or fold
What a wildly atrocious raise on the turn.
I would call here. I don't see a flush draw raising the turn. Villain is repping 5 x or a bluff. Maybe 1-3 its just a snap fold, but in general I call with AK.
I dunno. What hand is raising the turn? In my experience, people over slow play. He's trying to get a fold. Me, if I thin Villanova has me beat I'm folding to the raise. If I think he's bluffing, I call the raise and the river. That river changes nothing regarding Vs raise. Some players are agro. It's a tough spot. But vs bad players who are capable of crazy stuff like this, I just can't fold. Especially when he instantly shoves on such a connected river.
On paper this does look like a fold, for sure,BUT! bc the main pot is so small compared to the side pot, i think someone could consider making the hero call against a tilted BB who's down 1K ......
A snap jam on a nut changing river is usually a sign of weakness.
I mean technically the nut changes to 24hh but does either the Hero or Main Villain turn up with that after the preflop action?
The full house is out there on the turn, anecdotally I think players who raise the turn with a boat / quads in the position are likely to snap jam any river.
@@ajback2917I think the point here is that on the turn AK is still a somewhat strong hand for hero. And 5x (like 65s) would be a very strong hand.
Whereas by the river not only does the flush come in, but any 4x makes a straight meaning Ax hands and even 5x hands have to be somewhat hesitant.
Even flushes and 4x have to be a bit worried about the possibility of boats/quads. And boats/quads have to consider that Ax hands are much less likely to call.
So there’s very few value hands that would just snap jam river.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj 53 is a value hand that might snap jam river, because of the tension of flopping middle pair with a weak kicker, the excitement of turning trips combined with the fear of flushes and straights coming in, followed by the sudden appearance of a miracle 3 that makes a boat while also completing both flush and straight draws. But it's the only hand I can think of that has that sort of massive change in circumstances on every street. A5 is probably raising flop, and all the draws that come in might take a moment to consider whether or not hero has a better hand.
Usually, but not always, and as much as Bart loves this tell, I'm leery of over-relying on it. Sometimes a snap jam is a sign that the river card was one our opponent was hoping to see, either because it made their hand, or they think it improved our hand to a second-best hand that will snap call an all-in jam, or it's a safe card for their hand, which they now feel confident jamming.
Villain seemingly has no bluffs in range is what looks like, but hand reading a little deeper , hero is able to make the call. Intersting spot.Nice call, Gotta know your villains ..
Sounds like a calling station
I don't really understand why you would call this one in? Bart tries his best to do some poker analysis, then Hero makes a comment at the end saying these players are so bad they are basically clicking buttons and not thinking about the game at any level, then makes a call that is nonsensical. He can't even offer up some possible bluffs to talk through. I can only really see the motivation for calling in to brag about how soft his game is and that he got lucky.
I've had one of my all time biggest winning sessions in this game, and all I did was make over pairs and top pairs, no coolers.
Nice. It’s rare. You are living the dream being able to find a game like that.
Now tell everybody about your home game a few weeks later where you threw your chip rack across the room.
@@stevenundisclosed6091
Lololol
No comment 🤣
I live 20 minutes away from Derby Lane. It is a terrible poker room. That $1/$3 game takes $7 +$3 out of every pot over $50. I will never pay there again.
👽👍🏾
That is why you have to people read.
iono i was leaning towards a fold on the river
Also villain snap jams its a timing tell at these stakes. FH will think to take abit of time and act weak
I wouldn’t say that this hand is an outlier in 1/3
Certainly, it is an exploitative call
Yep. Lighting money on fire.
I had a huge leak in making way too many stupid river calls, and this is definitely a stupid river call.
I find that most of my hero calls on the river end up being wrong. The only exceptions are against good, thinking players who are capable of making some logical plays. Against nits and fish, it's just so rarely profitable to take a stand without a stronger hand.
@@1vailchris Really against fish I really have no problem and against" better players" I still have no problem and shitty no skill bricks (nits) theres no point to call them since they dont play poker it plays them and are as transparent as possible and just as easy as the others to deal with. If fish are are giving you a run for your money unless you got some super strong hand, sounds like you're the fish bud who happens to be a nit which as you can see my description I wrote of a nit i wrote above fits you perfectly. Since nits are usually nits because they lack any type of problem solving skill
@@fdgfg764 What are you talking about? You clearly misunderstood my comment. Fish aren't giving me problems at all, because I don't make hero calls against them when they're so clearly betting with a nutted hand that should have folded on an earlier street, but called and got there on the river. You have no idea how I play or what my results are.
A lot of live players will bluff dry side pots because they’re just there to win hands not money
And because they're terrible.
What are the logical bluffs on turn and river in this hand?
The caller should have gone allin on the river with the Kh in his hand
What would that accomplish? Are you expecting 5x/4x to fold?
Flushes and boats/quads obviously just snap call.
usually when your playing a session with someone for even as little as an hour you can tell if someone is capable of having a hand that makes zero sense in this spot. Normal hand and range analysis goes out the window vs whales like that.
I like Derby but the Rake is ridiculous. 1/3 with 1500 Max buyin. And there are plenty of players there out to left field. There it is profitable to be 80% exploit and 20% fundemental or GTO..
It’s a good game and you’re part of the reason, buddy. Sorry. But I can’t imagine me not folding “the turn” (that’s my edit I made a spelling mistake) and showing just my ace like I had a bad kicker to get him to show… don’t know how it ends but I’m assuming your call was to say “how could I get away from this”…. How do you not get away from this my friend?
Hell there’s a side pot… you’re gonna see either way… but I’ve had still shown just my ace
After the obvious fold
The look on barts face at the 12:30 markish was my look the whole hand… pick a better spot… congrats. I’d love to play in this game
95% of the time that has to be a fold..
if this guy had a read... then it definitely influenced the process, so kudos for "sniffing" that out..
me.. i cant think this guy is pushing anything but flush or straight,, WITH no other read.. which he had..
So it’s just like you said then? Villain knew he was losing to AK but was beating the short stack all in. So he thought he could rep a strong hand and get you to fold AK. But some guys are too reckless to know that they can’t rep anything reasonable. Like, you called a sb squeezer from the bb next door. He’s not gonna give you credit for any two pairs in this spot. So just leave it alone. Some players try to say ohhhh that’s exactly why he should think I have a hand lol. It’s like psychological levelling entitlement. No dude he’s just not gonna give you credit for two pairs that turned into boats. Maybe 22. But that’s legit 3 combos. Just leave it alone.
Some people try to rep hands for the sake of it but the other guy isn’t gonna believe you anyways.
but he wasnt beating shortstack the guy was a drooler like you. Shortsta had an A you manchild
@@fdgfg764 yeah I know but he THOUGHT he was beating short stack. “I put hero on an A so it’s unlikely the SS has an A”. The side pot was getting bigger so that’s why he kept bluffing like a drooler. I’m just saying what was possibly going through villains mind and why he did what he did.
The action on the turn makes the main pot irrelevant in the villains mind. Now he’s playing for the side pot because it’s growing. He puts hero on AK and is trying to get hero to fold it. He probably think hero checks AA. so he’s trying to fold AK out now.
The side pot got bigger.
I'm not sure V knew he was beating the CO's all-in. In fact, he wasn't. He was behind the CO with A4. When CO jams flop over hero's c-bet and V's call, V should consider that CO has some weak Ace. At best, V might have been trying to get hero to fold a better pair, given the turn/river action and runout. To be fair, V's line may be insane with 77, but hero didn't snap call, and Bart and a lot of others here in the comments said we'd fold AK here. If we're folding AK, I'd assume we're also folding 88-KK.
V isn't repping 2P. His turn raise is repping 5x for value, most likely 54 or 53 (both with an inside straight draw), that either makes a straight or a boat on the river. His logical turn semi-bluffs would all be flush draws that also got there. Because all of the logical bluffs on the turn got there on the river, and we're losing to all of V's value hands, many of us think this is just a fold with AK.
But apparently a lot of commenters think this is a good runout for V to bluff with almost any hand, including middling pairs like 77, I guess because the runout is "scary" for a hand like AK or any big pairs, because those hands are losing to boats, flushes, straights, and trips. I'm not sure how smart it is to bluff with middling pairs here, but I'd think 66 with the 6h would be better than 77, since 66 has some chance to improve on the flop, and blocks some of the value hands opponents might have on the river, like 65 and 64.
@@1vailchris the CO is SHORT all in and could easily still have 33 or 44 or some combo draws which there are a lot of. theres some pair and straight draws he could have. he was 2nd to call after the BB and could have thought if he calls the button will call also so he could have a light holding preflop. there's tons of hands the CO short stack could have that the BB beats with 77. the BB created a situation here where he didnt want to bail and he had to blast off.
the problem in this hand, like i said, is that BB is not reasonably repping anything that beats AK. he could still believe and could be right that he is ahead of the SS all in, although he was ultimately wrong, and that's why he did what he did
This is NOT an easy call. Because the turn is very underbluffed since there is a guy all in already. But there are a few elements that make this call possible.
1- When villain raises turn his value is trips or better. But in this scenario I would say trips are much more likely than a FH. A FH or quads might just call and trap, also more combos of trips if this guy is tilted and playing loose.
2- A flush draw should NEVER be bluffing this, because the side pot is just so dry and you are way behind any value that the all in guy has and you can also be drawing dead against one of your opponents.
3- Once the flush hits, V's bet can no longer be a 5, so most of the value combos on the turn are gone. He only has flushes and FH's. And both of these hands could have easily played different on the turn (FH call to trap, flush call because is not strong enough to bluff).
4- You are probably never winning both pots as the Hero, but you are getting a very good price on the side which against a tilted villain taking a weird line is going to show up with a lot of bluffs. So if I had enough time to think I would also call.
I agree V's turn raise is more likely to be 5x than a boat or quads, not just because those stronger hands will slow-play sometimes, but also because 2P or sets will want to raise this flop a lot, to charge hero for his draws.
I disagree a flush draw would never bluff this turn. Other than strong flush draws, most of V's continue range is going to be 5x, most likely 54 or 53, middle pair with a wheel draw, so the 5 is a good turn card to start a bluff, in case your flush bricks, and because your opponent might fold a better flush draw when your raise is repping trips at a minimum.
Because we can bluff the 5 on the turn with some flush draws, or bet the 5 for value with 54 or 53, we still have some combos for value, in that 54 is now a straight and 53 is a boat, and our flush draws all got there.
When CO appears to like the river card, hero is definitely losing the main pot. It's debatable how good a price he's getting on the side-pot, even with a tilted V. Sure, V could be frustration-shoving with something insane, but if he's tilted, he might call a 7.5x pre-flop open with 54, 53, and a lot of two-heart combos that could be played this way.
I took a similar line in a hand recently, flatting the PFR V's flop c-bet and raising his turn barrel with 5s6s on a board of Ks2s4h5c - 2nd pair with an inside straight-draw, and a flush draw that might not be any good if I made it. My raise was repping 6s3s, A3, 54, or 55, hoping my opponent would fold all his better flush draws without the As. It's a line where I can't have many value combos, but also can't have many bluffs. If my opponent 3B's, I have to fold, but he might check to me on a lot of rivers, and if he's got AK or just an A, and the river is an off-suit 3, 5, or 6, I'm going to stack him.
I see people do precisely this with AQ not an infrequent amount, just for value thinking they have the best hand.
Jamming AQ makes more sense than jamming 77. AQ is beating more of hero's range, whereas 77 isn't beating anything other than 66
@@1vailchris Lol. I don't think the jam was for value at that point :D
@@jayl3305 Obviously V jamming 77 here was a bluff. But even with AQ, it's still a terrible play in situations like this, where checking back is an option, and makes me wonder if the people doing it really understood if they were value-betting or bluffing. If your opponent jammed AQ here, would you automatically think they were doing it for value?
@@1vailchrisI’d say jamming AQ is worse than 77.
Unless you know hero has a ton of Ax in range and is such a station that they’ll call down with all of them.
Common knowledge does not work. You just have to go for it in many cases.
This almost seemed like a brag post about a guy making a hero call than anything interesting imo..
If I am hero, I wouldn't think twice because to me it's a snap fold river. There's no doubt I will be shouting in my heart "You son of the richest, bluff me with some non-sensical hand".
The hero has the King of hearts. Couldn't he have like king queen of hearts? I do like the way the hero analyzed the hand and said I think he's on tilt. Everybody wants to wait till they get the nuts to get into a pot with the maniac and you're just losing value.
Giving the villain way too much credit for understanding how all in dynamics work, I've had people in my games shove all in with stone bluffs to win side pots of nothing compared to the main pot
To the peeps that think poker is all luck. Uhhhhhh damn
At that level a whole lot of things they do make zero sense..
You made a decision based on the reaction and information given from an opponent all in. Ugh
This is still a bad call regardless of result
“If he has a set all the money is getting in and he’s gonna win” is not what winning players say
Uh, he didn't say he always goes broke against sets. But he's got top top against a bad, tilted opponent. Folding under most circumstances is awful.
I'm sorry, but alot of these hands are off the rails. I play $200NL and 500NL online on a regular basis, and.....WOW
The difference in play is massive. Alot of these live game call in hands are wild, absolutely sub-optimal.
Terrible bluff with 77, Terrible call with AK off, lol......sounds like live games are "alive" and will print, print, print 💰
why would anyone play online cash games its all total nits and bots? 😂
@@lloydchristmas1086 what's your point. I could same the same thing about a casino or card room.
The point is, online players are fundamentally better. It's great practice.
It's funny you laugh at online cash play, what is your point ?
@@pauleklund5298online games there is a lot of collusion. You could he playing against 5 guys sharing cards. Never mind virtually everyone using RTA. Plus bots who will exploit everyone of your leaks. 200NL online games are way tougher than 1500 buying live games
@@pauleklund5298 I play live..ive played online and its horrendously boring full of nits compared to live. I said bots because Ive read articles saying you can purchase bots for poker playing online and you can. Good luck at the tables.
@@pauleklund5298 You're making it sound much more impressive than it really is when you say fundamentally better lol. Average live player is like a 1 or a 2 out of 10 and average online player is like 1 or 2 OR 3 out of 10. The only reason this seems off the walls is because a literal who drunk can walk in and play instantly when they're out or get a fucking tickle to go play poker randomly when they havent played in a months and sit down with 1k because they got money. Online anything is always going to have a heavier filter and filter more of the crowd.
This is a fairly easy call. Many players will bluff this board.
Not with a side pot buddy makes no sense but it’s live poker
@@gobirds90i22 Because it’s a side pot. Makes no sense without it.
Players bluff the river with this type of board. This guy called the flop light, then bluffed the turn and the river.
What are the logical bluffs here, when every straight draw and flush draw got there, and the board is paired? How many people are just jamming here with total air, or some middling pair?
@@1vailchrisThat would be quite a long list.
Stupid and just terrible etiquette to say what the caller said in the intro about a public poker room on a public video. Also its just asinine to call in about this hand. Terrible scenario for analysis.
This caller is so bad. Literally just got glued to ak and couldnt fold and then tried to justify and clearly his player reads are terrible if he had to look at him lol and his body reads are extra shit if he got nothing other than he was a statue and had to look at someone else who gave him the wrong tell but it ended up working out ? lol . dumb luck. .. Either way bud keep making those calls with AK please. You are why poker is profitable.
You're probably just as bad of a player, but you are right.😂