Maybe you could try to get a speedrunner as co-commentator for the next speedrunners tierlist, as I feel that a second opinion could lead to some interesting discussion about things like the "ease of play/DPS"-Ratio of some weapons.
Actually, SNS can actually go toe to toe with Bow on Kushala runs, due to Kushala's low stagger values on it's head. If you land a perfect rush, you can completely staggerlock it
I'm just saying along with his flight, his wind aura makes it near impossible to get good hits in with melee plus it negates most ranged weapons damaga, stickies however will do same damage regardless and you have range to not deal with wind aura, also any tips for sns, it's one of the only 3 weapons for me I don't have a 100 hunts with, specifically how you do perfect rush without the slinger burst
Another problem is how powerful shield mods on hbg are. Using the lance for its defence is not worth it because the hbg has a easier to use and just as powerful shield plus a damage output larger than most weapons.
Depends on how well you know your weapon and the monster, if you know how to deal with the monster you dont need defensive skills at all. With that said, you should play whatever you like playing and people clearly are doing that, since HBG isn't the most popular weapon. There's no point crying over how much damage it does when it is the best for speedruns, it isn't affecting casual play all that much.
Cheer Up lad, HH users are unique and like unicorns!! You are very special! So dont be sad. As a GS, HBG, LBG, Bow, CB, Hammer and LS user myself I always love to see a HH user on my team, You do damage and buff everyone and heal as well, I lov to see 2050 Attack or more on my GS and like 1250+ defense thx to you guys. I'm currently MR 911/HR 999 I play on ps4, if You play on ps4 we should go hunting. You can add me: infernimusmugen cheers lad!!!
The main things I would change for lance given in the order I care about it. 1) Guard up activates immediately with power guard 2) Holding power guard for the current guard up window (around 2 seconds) activates a new lance damage and/or stun buff which powers up X number of hits 3) guard poke does not drop guard (already the case for slinger burst) 4) flinch free lvl 1 while guarding or attacking 5) challenger mantle only breaks when you take an unblocked hit (currently breaks via large chip damage or when your teammates damage the monster). Reduce duration to around 60 seconds.
I think Guard up should be built into both gun lance and lance. Lance is already such a low dps and defensive weapon and on top of that you need a shit load of defensive skills.
Agreed. They should be far and above the most defensive weapons. They should also resist tripping by other players by a large margin. These 2 things would make the damage of these weapons more consistent at least.
KhoiKO no one is expected to do perfect DPS with a chosen weapon but using people who have maxed out the potential of a weapon to see if its in a good place isn’t bad.
@@kingkobra4910 That may be true but the fact still stands that lance is also in the bottom tier of popularity. I vouch for more raw damage but I would already be happy with build in flinch free 1 for lance and gunlance.
as a Glaive-main I'd like to see some serious damage buffs to it. it's all fun jumping around etc. but losing all that sharpness in a glimpse, dealing mediocre damage and depending on those stupid buffs is just too much. It is especially useless in Safi Siege. Switched to Bow and Dual Blades if I need to get shit done. Still with a sadface as I completed vanilla and iceborne stories with the Glaive
I don't even mind Lance's underwhelming damage, but it also sucks that you often take chip damage and there is a handful of unblockable attacks that even guard up doesn't help with.
@@devildante9 Lance should have guard 2-4 or something by default, the same goes for GL but 1 point lower since it actually does respectable damage. Guard up by default would also make sense since you already have way less mobility than with most other shielded weapons.
I made a post about this on the steam forums, and the basic responses I got were either to all unblockables using the 10 frames that the lance hops give you, or to reposition using guard dash. Why they assumed I don't do that, i don't know, but there it is. My post was about giving lance a buff, and as you said, it doesn't even need to be a damage upgrade. but if I'm running guard 5, guard up, and defense boost 7, I should be damn near immune to all damage in my power guard (which actually causes you to take more damage than a basic guard, which is completely backwards, and should be reversed) Then the offset of offense would be worth it. But why would I waste time trying to dodge like a dual blades user to kill rajang while using lance's low dps, when I could just go another weapon that has longer s, more mobility, and more damage? I don't see it changing though.
I believe these are Freestyle records. Please put out a comparison for TA rules, which emphasizes flexibility and damage uptime rather than just raw output. The biggest offender here is Greatsword, which only looks so good because of constant disables being available for freestyle runs.
To be fair I think a Freestyle tier list is a lot more useful to the average player, since in normal play you'll use everything you have instead of limiting yourself By the way I was wondering, from what I heard the SA and DBs should have the highest theoretical dps (unless it's just a rumor) - but then why aren't they higher on the list? Constant disables should help them output the most damage, right?
I think now this late in the game is safe to say how much of a mistake clutch claw and the tenderize mechanic were: the only light weapons that get good clear times together with the "heavy" ones are LBG, which pretty much has only stickies and can ignore claw completely or SnS and DB which got 1 hit tenderizing moves. Bow is a separated case given how strong it is, so all the downtime you have to soften with it is compensated by how much damage it does, but LS and IG are the ones who suffered most from having to slap the monster 3 times to soften, specially because these are weapons that already have ramping up time (LS getting to red gauge and IG collecting kinsects) which hurts even more it's clear times. A complete mistake.
The weapons that are low tend to have fundamental mechanical issues that make them under perform. Giving them better weapons doesn't fix that - it just shoehorns builds. They need to address the mechanics/mvs to allow them to compete - like they did with SnS. Un-nerfing the elemental scaling of IG and Lance will probably help those weapons a bit. Getting Elemental Airborne back as well could be awesome (either via a MR set or Deco). I feel like lance needs a good finisher move for downed monsters. For HH my only real suggestion would be to make the song buffs scale based on party size. This would allow HH to buff itself significantly when solo without affecting the group utility.
Hunting horn could have some evasion options while playing songs which not makes you loses notes, imagine dancing in battlefield constantly evading and counter encoring song by song cause the monster is relentless xD
As a gs main, a good set up could potentially stun lock a monster due to the shear power of TCS. But apply that to the HBG, that consistent high DPS. I wont wonder why.
"holding onto its 13th place" 🤣 I've mained Insect Glaive for a while and whomever said they don't output damage is crazy. Though, I haven't used them much in Iceborne because I've been broadening my weapon repertoire. I might be a little biased here because I've been using it since its inception.
GS has been in the upper echelons of melee weapons for pretty much the entire franchise - its design tradeoff of damage over mobility means it generally boasts above average dps compared to other weapons and its mobility issues can be reduced with good positioning and monster knowledge, which speedrunners obviously have in spades. It's rare to not see it near the top when it comes to melee performance.
IG is currently left behind by the dev team. Why is the wounding from the air not a one shot wound like they did with SnS and DB ? It's exactly the same deal than with SnS: not accurate, and you have to commit. Moreover you still keep the option to aim to wound to get slinger ammos and boost your kinsect. Speaking of kinsect, it's currently a no brainer and this is why all IG players chose the same one; bad blunt options, elements are garbage. The damage of the IG is just not good; we simply have only one option: aim to do the spining move at quick as possible, as it is the only valuable damage attack we have besides the new air attack, which remains situational. I played IG hundred of hours, when trying the new SnS, I was wondering why 2 slashes of this tiny sword were almost as good as my IG with red buff. It makes no sense, and the devs should rework the weapon a bit because it's really a great one to play.
IG has better reach. Visuals doesn't matter to damage(though definitely needs a buff for the effort of collecting monster sweat). Vault is also a reliable defensive tool. The only problem with the IG is definitely tenderizing. I'm sure playing it would be smoother if give the same claw treatment like with SnS and you'll now have a better reason to jump other than dodging some attacks and gap closing.
@@cypherusuh Lol no. GS still has the crown when it comes to DPS when target isn't moving. I'm not bias cause I'm am SnS main with 3000 on it quests and I only use GS on Safi. I've tested the DPS a lot of times.
Bowguns are the best in general play too not just speedruns. If you're not playing Bow at near speedrun level, your gonna lose out to an Elemental LBG easily. DB needs trap locking to spam their dance to compete and GS needs well timed openings. Overall, it's because of their dmg, consistency and versatility which puts the guns on top.
I want to see a change to counter claw. Make the latched on attack a quick shield bash that does some KO damage and draws monster attention. That would give it some great team utility. Personally I love buffing utility over raw damage.
I love the lance so much. Makes me sad to see it so low. It just needs something more to boost it up, like inherent guard up or full i-frames on the claw counter, not just super armor.
The weapons are really not balance. Let's take HBG as an example. It's fairly easy to use and less risky especially if you are in Multiplayer but is one of the OP weapons. Now let's take Lance which is harder to use and riskier just to have a decent hunt time. It doesn't reward the Hunter for using a high difficulty weapon even when mastered. I wish Capcom give more thoughts on balancing weapons. They could always do balance changes every week just to make the hunts fair.
@@golgorothbloodoforyx noone is saying lance is the hardest weapon in the game, just that HBG is much easier to play yet does significantly more damage which seems counter intuitive. typically video games reward players for doing a task that is harder with bigger numbers
After 800 hunts with the LS I switched to the SnS after the perfect rush PC buffs and I’ll never look back. I love being having a tool for every situation and the DPS is just bananas now.
I feel like they need to give the lance a standard combo rework. I know people love their pokes but god damnit as someone who loves shields/lances/tanks it’s just so damn boring to use! Give the lance some bread and butter pizzazz, everything else about it is fantastic.
@@victoryvillain1471 lance poke is as bread and butter as bread and butter can go, and its been like that since the beginning of time. they kinda buffed counter poke, I think. it deals huge stagger damage. they also increased the damage of charge run thingy
Lance is a solid weapon but adding a high damage combo or buffing offensive guard to last significantly longer would be really nice. Also giving Lance's built in minds eye after activating offensive guard would be nice or just innately buffing the base damage for all Lance's by 5-10% would be dope.
Horn does not need a buff dude. Horn is theoretically the best weapon to have in a full party. It counts for approximately 1.8 hunters because of its attack up XL.
Savage is pretty easy with gunlance. Evade extender 3 does the job of moving your otherwise slow ass out of dragon AOEs and pin hitboxes... Find safety behind his leg/under his tail during the cloud and shell shell shell shell shell
I sometimes forget most people run long shelling. I guess I need to specify that I run full burst. Normal GL has way too many long openings for Jho to absolutely destroy.
Ya have to realize the reason HBG,Bow, and LBG are so strong. They require the most investment to play (especially bow) correctly. The decos and elemental set ups required to play ranged weapons are rough to get. Melee can fake it till they make in most cases
Um.... For the bow I agree, but for the lbg and hbg.... no, it's actually the complete opposite All you need is the Nargacuga set bonus, which is super easy armor to craft, then you spam.... I've played hundreds of hunts with charge blade, but when it's serious time, I switch to my brachy sticky lbg I've used probably 20-30 times and breeze my way through anything. I hate how brain-dead yet OP bowguns are with basically no effort, investment my a$$
Rather than a damage buff I'd much prefer a way to add or augment the songs on the hunting horns, some horns are really good in terms of damage, but missing key songs like echo wave, def up L, atk up L, etc narrowing the pool of legitimately viable options
Great, SnS with its Perfect Rush already has fuckton of damage. And now it can one hit tenderize as well. Add in the built-in mobility and utility, we get the arguably best melee weapon in the game. What's the point in using other melee weapons anymore especially the heavy ones?
Greatsword and dual blades are its only competition, all the other melee weapons just can't compete. Its actually really sad how like 5 out of the 14 weapons are just grossly better then the other ones
The challenger mantel change could even be reliant on the sheath state of your weapon, and give it a 12second window after sheathing where the durability effects remain so they can heal without worrying about catching a stray hit and outright losing the mantle.
One of the few lance mains here. They need to give power guard guard up as soon as you enter the stance, not 2 seconds later. Also a 5 percent raw damage buff would be great. Lastly they need to find a use for the shield bash on this weapon. It has potential for utility but as of now serves almost no purpose. Thanks capcom!
I don't understand why the lance doesn't have a shield combo, it doesn't make any sense. Sowrd and shield has loads of combo's, get's more combo's. Lance got a claw counter that doesn't work on a lot of abilities, a quite often just ends in you taking more damage.
Thank you for your ending comments about the lance, one of the joys in playing this game is that all weapons were supposed to be equally viable against monsters, I remember back in the first monster Hunter when lance was awesome at stun locking with well timed pokes to the head and it was awesome . I simply cannot understand why as a lance fan, I should have to use another weapon to fight certain monsters. It makes no sense that lance was awesome against Xenojiva but when he grows up I am almost useless, Meanwhile the best weapons get better on every update. I have a safi blast lance fully upgraded and yes it is awesome, but compared to others at a similar level it is still vastly sub par. WTF is Capcom doing here? I don't want to master another fucking weapon, I don't have the fucking time, BUFF THE MOTHER FUCKING LANCE PLEASE.
vcvinny0721 What I really want to know myself is the average consistent dps of the lance and other weapons rather than they’re pure dps stats. The speedrun results show that the lance is the worst in dps compared to all other weapons, but I don’t believe that’s the best way to evaluate the weapons. Speedruns aim to do the perfect hunt with calculated stuns, weapon counters, and monster attacks, but this differs greatly from normal “free-lance” hunts. These hunts are usually unpredictable leaving lots of room for error and vulnerability for hunters at any skilly level. These are the hunts I want to know and judge each weapon on, how well and effective each one is from new players, experienced players, and professional players POV. The reason I love the lance so much is for it’s ability to consistent in any of these runs, being able to easily stick to the monster the whole fight if you’re skilled enough with the block timings and movement options. If you’re using a great sword and is able to pull off a true charge slash every single time, then it’s going to completely destroy the lance in dps. But you can never truely rely on doing that every hunt, you’re going to be knocked about, or may not be even given the chance or opportunity to charge a true charge slash, let alone hitting it. Unfortunately though there isn’t going to be an easy way to obtain that data :c unless a good part of the community came together, or a small group were extremely dedicated, I don’t think we’ll be able to get any solid info on consistent dps across all the weapons. As it is, I think the lance is in a good spot despite its comparatively bad pure dps, it makes up for it with its consistent dps and surprising flexibility.
@@lasbela5472 I agreed with you until you said that the lance is in a " good spot " but then maybe you are right, however " good " is the enemy of " GREAT " in my book and I want to be great like the HBG, greatsword, hammer, hell let me at least get close to at least one of the gunlance types, let's say normal. I am sorry but the numbers ,and not just these in the video, but all numbers show that the lance as much as we love it, is under performing. Be real, don't excuse it because you enjoy the gameplay, all lance users do, we play it in spite of its short comings. Give us something ,damnit, whether it be more agro, easier part break like the GS, just give us some damn thing. I will say it again for all lance users," Capcom, BUFF THE MOTHER FUCKING LANCE "
@@pipipermusic Yeah I can agree with that, unfortunately its kind of the trade off of trying to make the lance fit it's theme of "elegant gentleman's weapon." With that focus on the theme, it's face value just seems extremely boring and unexciting with it's (although consistent) small damage numbers and uneventful move set. My problem with changing the lance is that it may destroy/ruin it's original theme of "elegant gentleman's weapon" if not handled correctly. I'm afraid that (although I doubt that they'd add any) new moves to the lance could dilute it's core gameplay style of flexible guard points. Capcom could just boost the damage, but it could turn out that it was already doing fairly well dps wise in non-speedrun hunts compared to all other weapons, and a damage buff might just make the weapon too strong... however a little itch tells me that's not going to be the case xD but we never know without the data. I believe if they were to buff the lance, it would have to centre around it's theme and core gameplay appeal and theme, being it's shield flexibility. I thought the offensive guard decoration/skills was an amazing feature for the lance kit, buffing the lances damage with it's gimmick rewarding you for playing the lance well and more aggressively. More changes relating to perfectly timed shield counters would be fantastic, maybe having a charge metre that fills up for every attack you block, with it being charged more for "perfect counters." Or maybe even having more move set options after certain blocks, whether it be a lunging block, a normal block, a counter block, or the safe super block. One thing I do wish they alter about the lance is the Guard Up skill you gain from super blocking after 2-3 seconds. You can never rely on this for most unblock-able attacks with the time frame it gives you, and I wish it would grant you Guard Up just from simply using super block. I feel like this fits in perfectly with lance's major focus on its shield and theme, while also giving an extra lvl2 gem slot to fill into their builds. Super guard is also probably lance least aggressive move and usually isn't used much by myself unless I screw up or need to re-position, so having the Guard Up skill trigger instantly would give extra utility (and a higher skill ceiling/Extra thing to learn) in deflecting those quick unblock-able attacks. Unfortunately for the lance you really need to love it's primary gameplay moveset or its going to end up being extremely disappointing. I for one love it the way it is and personally wouldn't mind it not being changed. However, most people can recognise its major short comings and I would be more than happy for added mechanics or changes to be made to it, assuming that it doesn't stray too much from the weapons original intent.
Tastes vary, but using a longsword feels like playing the game in a very dynamic way, while special scope spread or using stickes feels like glitching the game.
My only problem is this isnt the TA list and I believe the TA rules are way more flexible when it comes to speedruning and considers more than just raw damage output. You should cross reference this with the TA teirlist
I'm a new player here and pick up lance for start weapon. Why I choose it? 1. I don't know shiet about this game and monster attack pattern. 2. I want to survive even when I'm not doing damage. (At least learn monster pattern) 3. Stabbing every monster butthole! 4. I know they're not damaging as any other weapon. 5. Get carried! That's why I think lance should be a good beginner weapon. if I dont know anything, raise your shield and learn slowly.
very happy that the scores were explained thoroughly this time around rather than guesswork, gives a LOT more context to how good some weapons are or aren't.
What i would like to see changed for Hunting Horn is that they combine Selfimprovement with Attack up L so Hunting Horn will always have Attack up L which hopefully makes more Hunting Horns viable since Attack up L is a necessity and any HH without it is kinda bad, especially in Multiplayer. And when all HH have it they can be more creative with other buffs because it was always in the way and limited the possibilites.
This might not have anything to do with speed running but the idea of buffing mantles seem good for weapons. I was thinking of weapon class bonuses when paired with particular mantles. Challenger mantle could last 50% longer and won't get used up till the time expires or the user gets hit 3 times if you're using the lance or gunlance. Impact mantle could have while being used with hunting horn or hammer if you ko a monster their stun values won't increase and things like that.
I mean weapons like for example Longsword, which does require you to build up your damage first by building spirit meters tend to not do as good in speedruns compared to weapons ike Greatsword, HBG etc. which can pretty much go all out right from the beginning. I'm not sure about this, but I guess that might be the reason why IG, LS etc. are not doing great on Speedrun Tier lists.
Also, lance got the least changes in iceborne and I feel this caused most talented players passing it by. I would like to see the lance go back to the pre iceborne element damage
ITV: Gameconomist speculates about the crawl weapons, acts surprised about HBG's domination of cheesing (for like, the 5th or 6th game in a row,) and claims to what CAPCOM should or should not be doing with a dataset that he wildly speculates about the meaning of. He then continues his episodic whine about the Lance, which in practice he never manages to shortstop the charge for the 3-hits into an uppoke combo, instead he just charges and misses the ending shot most of the time. But when people point this out, he opens up his Guildcard and says "nuh uh, I have a whole bunch of Lance hunts." Like that changes the 3 second input habit- because charging through people trying to finish the quest is much more fun amirite?
In his defense, not even the devs seem to know about the shortstop charge combo. In the recent "Iceborne - Lance" trailer, they didn't use it once. watch?v=WzDuCGxtd2I Really puts a lot of the Iceborne lance changes into perspective, they don't seem to have anyone on their team that plays the lance extensively, or at least enough to realize it could at least use some QoL.
I agree despite his time spent on the weapon he doesnt seem to use it very well but i still think he has a point about the lance could use some buffs. Maybe giving it guard up easier, or a way to aggro the monster or just more damage or QOL. Lance is super fun imo just could use a little help compared to the other weapons that have been given plenty of help as it is
Gunlance has fallen because the dps is basically the same from iceborne base, since long is still used in some speedruns, hopefully since raging brachy brought so much to other playstiles it should rise in the next months
So i played bow through the whole standard game, then longsword through iceborne. I never went for them cause of any statistics from speedrunners or popularity. But seeing this list makes me intrested about testing other weapons.
Lance has a high damage uptime on the boss. Speedrunners have a high damage uptime regardless of what they play. HOWEVER especialy in multiplayer most weapons (excluding lance) will have to sheat, dodge, heal, run away or what not. Lance will not xD Lance maintains a high damage uptime on the boss. I'm not gonna say it maintains speedrun damage uptime but it sure as hell is able to stick to the monster like glue if played properly. You got to take that into account when looking at posible buffs to the weapon.
the average score and average rank are exactly the same thing except one goes up and one goes down you could even say the score also gives the same result you have 3 columns that all provide the same information
I am really surprised by hammer being so low on the list. Also, wtf insect glaive? What is the impetus to use that needlessly overcomplicated of a weapon if the damage is garbage as well? Everything from hammer down likely needs looked at as underperforming. Although if brachy wasn't included in these results, gunlance potentially could be moving up.
@@fahimrahman7675 man I like the idea of insect glaive but it's just dual blades but aerial. It doesn't have that oomf that long sword sns or hammer have. I wish it did cus I like how it looks
Guii Some context: I started the series with generations and insect Glaive was one of the weapons I was intrigued in but didn’t have the materials to make it work (the insect was really hard to make viable because all the good bugs were endgame). I finally made the transition from Greatsword to IG and have been in love with it ever since. I love bugs and the aerial style made it so fucking stylish, zipping around the map and dishing out a lot of damage, so it did definitely have some oomf back then. In world, they nerfed it to the ground and I still don’t know why since they already nerfed it in generations in comparison to 4U. It’s the main reason why I think Capcom hates the IG. If it had better motion values, aerial wasn’t abysmal and the bug buffs were like what it was before it definitely would be closer to what I think IG should be, a stylish, fluid and powerful weapon.
Guii I think in Iceborne they did make some improvements, the descending thrust is so sexy and amazing for dodging and repositioning. It’s also pretty powerful, only being beat by the tornado slash. Most people ignore it because the people are just averse to aerial IG play, but the IG speedrunners like Pochi (who you should definitely check out) use it really effectively for stunning runs. There’s also the fact that kinsects are buffed but people ignore the bugs for some reason. The descending thrust auto marks the monster so bug management is easier. But although I think that iceborne IG is much better than world IG, the motion values still suck so it means little. I pray that IG gets the sword and shield treatment and gets a massive damage buff somehow. They can add all the gimmicks they want but if the moves aren’t inherently strong, it’s not gonna compete with the heavy hitters.
HBG is the least enjoyable weapon in the game for me. Yet it's such easy mode it's makes encounters a joke. I can only imagine those who like playing it are having a blast. Longsword will always be the most played cause foresight slash is fun and satisfying. Even if it does mediocre damage it is fun for general play. I wish more melee weapons had a counter like that and a perfect rush style combo that SnS has(not necessarily damage wise but timing on inputs required).
@@Malakith I just wish lbg got some love. yea we got stickies, but other than that, there is no reason to not run either hbg or bow as they do what lg tries to do but better. Not to mention our special ammo is very situational and in all honesty, is very boring to use. It does damage but it lacks impact and feels more like a chore than anything. raw lbg outside the use of stickies is actual hot garbage, slicing is actually useless, and elemental shot's do mediocre damage due to how they and the elemental hitzones work. So while stickies are mindless and boring, it's the only thing us lbg mains get...
The hammer is the most skewed in my opinion. No idea how these speedrunners us it as if you use evade decos you can stay power charged a lot longer and even avoid getting hit. If your getting hit more often your not going to deal more damage. Add to the fact depending on the terrain or monster I use it differently. If a monster is always airborne I keep doing the jump attack move off a ledge and either mount it or straight up knock it down, the jump attack deco helps as well does 30percent more damage. If there's a slope forget about it. Just one sliding deco adds 30percent affinity and if you know what your doing you can be harder to hit when performing the move. I should try one of these speed runs. I always play with other people never really tried to get best times. For me it's all about mounting and not dying at all.
É demorado produzir dano com ele quando comparamos com outras armas, o movimento bang é um bom exemplo, muito forte mas você não tem atalhos pra chegar nele.
True. However, as an lbg main may I point out that sticky ammo is the only thing lbg gets. Bow can do element and status better than lbg. Hbg does every raw shot better than lbg and can also run status if desired. Hbg get's clust which, even after the heavy nerf, is still an effective option. Slicing doesn't even function properly anymore ( can't cut tails ). The land mines suck. They do damage but they are very situational and feel more like a chore rather than a cool new thing to use. They are very boring. So while sticky lbg is brain dead and stupid, Capcom and the mh team have made it so that sticky lbg is the only way for lbg to become it's own gun, rather than just a lesser hbg or bow. Also don't even bring up evading reload to me.
clutch claw ruined the meta for weapons melee weapons with high burst get better times because knock downs are so easy now thats why lance is below hunting horn doesnt mean an average player would be faster with hh over lance
It's simple... All lance mains jumped to HBG with shield mods. It's a huge leap in DPS, without too much of a change in playstyle Still, I'm glad to see the Swaxe pulling decent numbers, it's such a fun weapon to use...
here's my issue with looking at lists like these. each weapons plays different and has a niche role they it tries to fulfill. this game isn't necessarily just about taking down the monster as fast as you can. it's about taking down the monster period, or in the way you want to achieve that. a Lance takes down a monster by steadily and repeatedly dealing small chips of damage while others have to back out while it's attacking (which means for burst damage during downs that speed runners take advantage of, it's losing that battle). hunting horns thrive at buffing teammates for multi-player, meaning during just single play speed running of course it's not being as beneficial to what that weapon is aiming for. those are just two examples. i understand this list is good to look at for speed running reasons, but i don't think it should be a viable option to look at how each weapon is doing independently at what it is aiming to do. if this game was solely just about speed running, yes it would be. but i thankfully (at least thankfully in my opinion) it's not. but regardless, everyone should play how they want. (-obligatorily said to avoid people getting butt hurt)
bowguns being as strong as they are is kinda justified my boy. you are immobile, take more damage than melee players and it's not particularly fun to play with bowguns. it's essentially just "throw rocks until monster is dead". melee users at least have an interesting moveset to watch. us bowguns users...well...we're here for the damage. that's it.
Raging brachy does so much damage(multi hit explosions) that I still die with Lance guard(guard 5 and guard up btw), only way to survive raging brachy explosions is with power guard
Vils yea, while HBG with 3x shield mods and guard 5 can just chill next to Brachy and tank explosions all day. I love HBG but man it’s shield shouldn’t blatantly be stronger than a lance shield...
Well actually as long as you have health augments on your Lance you should be able to negate the chip entirely assuming your countering, plus you straight up avoid the explosions with gaurd dashes
I use both hammer and HH and to be honest HH is better overall. It's spin2win attack does so much damage and with a good build AND attack up XL it's just a beast. I love hammer's spinning attack but HH is just a better version of the hammer overall just less flashy,its also much more versatile as you could play support or offensive and you're still godlike if you know what you're doing!
One thing i don't get: The TA wiki rules. Those runs follow the rules, but there isn't a category for an open run? A lot of battle styles depends on mantles or other stuff (Switch axe infinite zero sum for instance). And why those rules? Who benefits from it?
This site records all types of runs, not just TA, if you look at the top runs for most weapons, most aren't following ta rules, TA is for an extra challenge and that wiki leaderboard
Brought to you by: iceborne.seiken.io/
The super crazy powerful Heavy Bowgun: ruclips.net/video/_mcrzM9YK1U/видео.html
Any way to find similar website with speedruns? It’s closed already :(
Maybe you could try to get a speedrunner as co-commentator for the next speedrunners tierlist, as I feel that a second opinion could lead to some interesting discussion about things like the "ease of play/DPS"-Ratio of some weapons.
Yes x2
I would really enjoy this too.
Yesx3
Yes
cantaperme sir?
Happy Birthday Gameconomist!
SnS master race: good dps, best utility. There isn't a single bad matchup for SnS, except for Kushala but we don't talk about that annoying bastard.
The only answer to that thing is STICKiES
@@wreckingball6600 Shut up... Master race is talking
Actually, SNS can actually go toe to toe with Bow on Kushala runs, due to Kushala's low stagger values on it's head. If you land a perfect rush, you can completely staggerlock it
@@prawn1717 He still is a pain in the ass for casual/average hunts.
I'm just saying along with his flight, his wind aura makes it near impossible to get good hits in with melee plus it negates most ranged weapons damaga, stickies however will do same damage regardless and you have range to not deal with wind aura, also any tips for sns, it's one of the only 3 weapons for me I don't have a 100 hunts with, specifically how you do perfect rush without the slinger burst
Another problem is how powerful shield mods on hbg are. Using the lance for its defence is not worth it because the hbg has a easier to use and just as powerful shield plus a damage output larger than most weapons.
Shield is mostly not used in speedrunning tho. I personally not use it for casual play cause it's boring. Positioning and rolling is much of exciting
For speed runs you mod 4 Close Range and Special Scope
Juan Cito my point was just to show how the HBG is superior both in offense and defense compared to almost every other weapon.
Paulo Ramos but when picking defense your offense is still more powerful than a speedrunner set for half the weapons in the game
Depends on how well you know your weapon and the monster, if you know how to deal with the monster you dont need defensive skills at all. With that said, you should play whatever you like playing and people clearly are doing that, since HBG isn't the most popular weapon. There's no point crying over how much damage it does when it is the best for speedruns, it isn't affecting casual play all that much.
As a lance and Hunting Horn main this list makes me sad :(
Strong agree.
Hunting Horns unite!
Why, did you think it was putting up strong numbers? Really?
@@andybui1904 Not really, but I had a sliver of hope that maybe one of them wouldn't be dead last.
Cheer Up lad, HH users are unique and like unicorns!! You are very special! So dont be sad. As a GS, HBG, LBG, Bow, CB, Hammer and LS user myself I always love to see a HH user on my team, You do damage and buff everyone and heal as well, I lov to see 2050 Attack or more on my GS and like 1250+ defense thx to you guys. I'm currently MR 911/HR 999 I play on ps4, if You play on ps4 we should go hunting. You can add me: infernimusmugen cheers lad!!!
The main things I would change for lance given in the order I care about it.
1) Guard up activates immediately with power guard
2) Holding power guard for the current guard up window (around 2 seconds) activates a new lance damage and/or stun buff which powers up X number of hits
3) guard poke does not drop guard (already the case for slinger burst)
4) flinch free lvl 1 while guarding or attacking
5) challenger mantle only breaks when you take an unblocked hit (currently breaks via large chip damage or when your teammates damage the monster). Reduce duration to around 60 seconds.
challenger mantle would be dope. but it'll also buff any weapon that evade, such as LS, bow, SnS
I think Guard up should be built into both gun lance and lance. Lance is already such a low dps and defensive weapon and on top of that you need a shit load of defensive skills.
Stop looking at speed runners to determine (YOUR) DpS.
Agreed. They should be far and above the most defensive weapons. They should also resist tripping by other players by a large margin. These 2 things would make the damage of these weapons more consistent at least.
I mean, lance already has guard up on power stance, gunlance just gets fucked i guess
KhoiKO no one is expected to do perfect DPS with a chosen weapon but using people who have maxed out the potential of a weapon to see if its in a good place isn’t bad.
@@kingkobra4910 That may be true but the fact still stands that lance is also in the bottom tier of popularity. I vouch for more raw damage but I would already be happy with build in flinch free 1 for lance and gunlance.
as a Glaive-main I'd like to see some serious damage buffs to it. it's all fun jumping around etc. but losing all that sharpness in a glimpse, dealing mediocre damage and depending on those stupid buffs is just too much. It is especially useless in Safi Siege. Switched to Bow and Dual Blades if I need to get shit done. Still with a sadface as I completed vanilla and iceborne stories with the Glaive
Ive always been saying that the AIRBORNE JEWEL SHOULD WORK WITH INSECT GLAIVE. I just want that jewel to work with the IG because it just makes sense
I just started using HBG, it makes my noob builds feel like I’m speed running.
I don't even mind Lance's underwhelming damage, but it also sucks that you often take chip damage and there is a handful of unblockable attacks that even guard up doesn't help with.
@@devildante9 ;(
There is not a real advantage using lance. It should be but it’s not
@@devildante9
Lance should have guard 2-4 or something by default, the same goes for GL but 1 point lower since it actually does respectable damage. Guard up by default would also make sense since you already have way less mobility than with most other shielded weapons.
I made a post about this on the steam forums, and the basic responses I got were either to all unblockables using the 10 frames that the lance hops give you, or to reposition using guard dash. Why they assumed I don't do that, i don't know, but there it is.
My post was about giving lance a buff, and as you said, it doesn't even need to be a damage upgrade. but if I'm running guard 5, guard up, and defense boost 7, I should be damn near immune to all damage in my power guard (which actually causes you to take more damage than a basic guard, which is completely backwards, and should be reversed) Then the offset of offense would be worth it. But why would I waste time trying to dodge like a dual blades user to kill rajang while using lance's low dps, when I could just go another weapon that has longer s, more mobility, and more damage?
I don't see it changing though.
Powerguard imo should have built in guard up as well
I believe these are Freestyle records. Please put out a comparison for TA rules, which emphasizes flexibility and damage uptime rather than just raw output. The biggest offender here is Greatsword, which only looks so good because of constant disables being available for freestyle runs.
also SnS is pretty boosted here.
To be fair I think a Freestyle tier list is a lot more useful to the average player, since in normal play you'll use everything you have instead of limiting yourself
By the way I was wondering, from what I heard the SA and DBs should have the highest theoretical dps (unless it's just a rumor) - but then why aren't they higher on the list? Constant disables should help them output the most damage, right?
@@anti-macro sadly freestyle also encourages exploits
I wish they'd buff insect glaive by allowing the airborne jewel to work for ig when theyre helicopter-ing
I think now this late in the game is safe to say how much of a mistake clutch claw and the tenderize mechanic were: the only light weapons that get good clear times together with the "heavy" ones are LBG, which pretty much has only stickies and can ignore claw completely or SnS and DB which got 1 hit tenderizing moves. Bow is a separated case given how strong it is, so all the downtime you have to soften with it is compensated by how much damage it does, but LS and IG are the ones who suffered most from having to slap the monster 3 times to soften, specially because these are weapons that already have ramping up time (LS getting to red gauge and IG collecting kinsects) which hurts even more it's clear times. A complete mistake.
The weapons that are low tend to have fundamental mechanical issues that make them under perform. Giving them better weapons doesn't fix that - it just shoehorns builds. They need to address the mechanics/mvs to allow them to compete - like they did with SnS.
Un-nerfing the elemental scaling of IG and Lance will probably help those weapons a bit. Getting Elemental Airborne back as well could be awesome (either via a MR set or Deco). I feel like lance needs a good finisher move for downed monsters.
For HH my only real suggestion would be to make the song buffs scale based on party size. This would allow HH to buff itself significantly when solo without affecting the group utility.
Hunting horn could have some evasion options while playing songs which not makes you loses notes, imagine dancing in battlefield constantly evading and counter encoring song by song cause the monster is relentless xD
As a gs main, a good set up could potentially stun lock a monster due to the shear power of TCS. But apply that to the HBG, that consistent high DPS. I wont wonder why.
"holding onto its 13th place" 🤣
I've mained Insect Glaive for a while and whomever said they don't output damage is crazy. Though, I haven't used them much in Iceborne because I've been broadening my weapon repertoire. I might be a little biased here because I've been using it since its inception.
My butterfly is crying
GS=best sword
Dodogama the dodge it’s not a good sword. It’s a great sword !
You could say that it's a...great sword...👉😎👉
GS has been in the upper echelons of melee weapons for pretty much the entire franchise - its design tradeoff of damage over mobility means it generally boasts above average dps compared to other weapons and its mobility issues can be reduced with good positioning and monster knowledge, which speedrunners obviously have in spades. It's rare to not see it near the top when it comes to melee performance.
@@anti-macro have u seen some sns speedrunns? they are nuts and they can beat gs in iceborn
@@Lyr00 you cant even call that shit a sword
IG is currently left behind by the dev team. Why is the wounding from the air not a one shot wound like they did with SnS and DB ? It's exactly the same deal than with SnS: not accurate, and you have to commit. Moreover you still keep the option to aim to wound to get slinger ammos and boost your kinsect.
Speaking of kinsect, it's currently a no brainer and this is why all IG players chose the same one; bad blunt options, elements are garbage.
The damage of the IG is just not good; we simply have only one option: aim to do the spining move at quick as possible, as it is the only valuable damage attack we have besides the new air attack, which remains situational.
I played IG hundred of hours, when trying the new SnS, I was wondering why 2 slashes of this tiny sword were almost as good as my IG with red buff.
It makes no sense, and the devs should rework the weapon a bit because it's really a great one to play.
Yea, IG needs a serious buff as well, such a shame that an unique weapon like this is left to the wayside.
IG has better reach. Visuals doesn't matter to damage(though definitely needs a buff for the effort of collecting monster sweat). Vault is also a reliable defensive tool. The only problem with the IG is definitely tenderizing. I'm sure playing it would be smoother if give the same claw treatment like with SnS and you'll now have a better reason to jump other than dodging some attacks and gap closing.
SnS perfect rush total damage is bigger than full GS combo lmao, and it only cost it ~70% of TCS combo time needed
@@cypherusuh Lol no. GS still has the crown when it comes to DPS when target isn't moving. I'm not bias cause I'm am SnS main with 3000 on it quests and I only use GS on Safi. I've tested the DPS a lot of times.
Bowguns are the best in general play too not just speedruns. If you're not playing Bow at near speedrun level, your gonna lose out to an Elemental LBG easily. DB needs trap locking to spam their dance to compete and GS needs well timed openings. Overall, it's because of their dmg, consistency and versatility which puts the guns on top.
I want to see a change to counter claw. Make the latched on attack a quick shield bash that does some KO damage and draws monster attention. That would give it some great team utility. Personally I love buffing utility over raw damage.
Switch axe movin up!!!
"It's still mid tier dude calm down"
SWAX IS A BEAST
I love the lance so much. Makes me sad to see it so low. It just needs something more to boost it up, like inherent guard up or full i-frames on the claw counter, not just super armor.
capcom hates lance and insect glaive with a passion
Raging brachy armor is going to shake this up a lot.
The weapons are really not balance. Let's take HBG as an example.
It's fairly easy to use and less risky especially if you are in Multiplayer but is one of the OP weapons.
Now let's take Lance which is harder to use and riskier just to have a decent hunt time. It doesn't reward the Hunter for using a high difficulty weapon even when mastered.
I wish Capcom give more thoughts on balancing weapons. They could always do balance changes every week just to make the hunts fair.
Lance is easy to use lmao, it’s just a hbg that does less damage.
@@golgorothbloodoforyx which is harder? hbg or lance? then read again.
Shumaki Zonon that doesn’t mean lance is harder to use lol. It’s straight easy mode, trust me. I have 7k hunts with lance. It’s pretty fucking easy...
Shumaki Zonon I’m fine where hunting horn is at... I’ll let people skip the divine power
@@golgorothbloodoforyx noone is saying lance is the hardest weapon in the game, just that HBG is much easier to play yet does significantly more damage which seems counter intuitive. typically video games reward players for doing a task that is harder with bigger numbers
That challenger mantle idea is pure gold
SnS gang rise up!
After 800 hunts with the LS I switched to the SnS after the perfect rush PC buffs and I’ll never look back. I love being having a tool for every situation and the DPS is just bananas now.
Seeing the lance just slightly poking behemoth is just sad... I hope the lance gets buffs
Happy Birthday! Love your videos!
HBG popularity doesnt match its power because its a very boring weapon to use. Majority of the community dont care about speedrunning.
Hbg is not boring
They should triple the damage for the lance - counter claw and counter thrust
I feel like they need to give the lance a standard combo rework. I know people love their pokes but god damnit as someone who loves shields/lances/tanks it’s just so damn boring to use! Give the lance some bread and butter pizzazz, everything else about it is fantastic.
@@victoryvillain1471 lance poke is as bread and butter as bread and butter can go, and its been like that since the beginning of time.
they kinda buffed counter poke, I think. it deals huge stagger damage.
they also increased the damage of charge run thingy
Lance is a solid weapon but adding a high damage combo or buffing offensive guard to last significantly longer would be really nice. Also giving Lance's built in minds eye after activating offensive guard would be nice or just innately buffing the base damage for all Lance's by 5-10% would be dope.
Horn does not need a buff dude. Horn is theoretically the best weapon to have in a full party. It counts for approximately 1.8 hunters because of its attack up XL.
Not everyone wants to play it in Multiplayer
also the spin2win move is hella strong
That solo alatreon sns 5:30 is frickin insane.
As a gunlance main, I understand why no one wants to run Savage Jho. The cola breath cloud just murders me every time.
Gunlance destroys Savage Jho. When it chargers shell for a stagger. dragon breath hop to the left or right to not get hit
@@churchofsatan2041 Agreed, wyrmstake procs and charged shells to the legs make Jho and most other monaters trip a lot.
Ew the angry vape pickle
Savage is pretty easy with gunlance. Evade extender 3 does the job of moving your otherwise slow ass out of dragon AOEs and pin hitboxes...
Find safety behind his leg/under his tail during the cloud and shell shell shell shell shell
I sometimes forget most people run long shelling. I guess I need to specify that I run full burst. Normal GL has way too many long openings for Jho to absolutely destroy.
Ya have to realize the reason HBG,Bow, and LBG are so strong. They require the most investment to play (especially bow) correctly. The decos and elemental set ups required to play ranged weapons are rough to get. Melee can fake it till they make in most cases
Um.... For the bow I agree, but for the lbg and hbg.... no, it's actually the complete opposite
All you need is the Nargacuga set bonus, which is super easy armor to craft, then you spam.... I've played hundreds of hunts with charge blade, but when it's serious time, I switch to my brachy sticky lbg I've used probably 20-30 times and breeze my way through anything. I hate how brain-dead yet OP bowguns are with basically no effort, investment my a$$
Rather than a damage buff I'd much prefer a way to add or augment the songs on the hunting horns, some horns are really good in terms of damage, but missing key songs like echo wave, def up L, atk up L, etc narrowing the pool of legitimately viable options
That Super Shotgun build is just straight up stupidly good both offense and defensive.
Insect Glaive gets no love.
Ikr very sad
No love for Dialla.
Fuck 'em. I still love Insect Glaive.
Great, SnS with its Perfect Rush already has fuckton of damage. And now it can one hit tenderize as well. Add in the built-in mobility and utility, we get the arguably best melee weapon in the game. What's the point in using other melee weapons anymore especially the heavy ones?
Greatsword and dual blades are its only competition, all the other melee weapons just can't compete. Its actually really sad how like 5 out of the 14 weapons are just grossly better then the other ones
The challenger mantel change could even be reliant on the sheath state of your weapon, and give it a 12second window after sheathing where the durability effects remain so they can heal without worrying about catching a stray hit and outright losing the mantle.
One of the few lance mains here. They need to give power guard guard up as soon as you enter the stance, not 2 seconds later. Also a 5 percent raw damage buff would be great. Lastly they need to find a use for the shield bash on this weapon. It has potential for utility but as of now serves almost no purpose. Thanks capcom!
Glad to see sns do so well now after the buffs.
Whats the background music btw?
I don't understand why the lance doesn't have a shield combo, it doesn't make any sense. Sowrd and shield has loads of combo's, get's more combo's. Lance got a claw counter that doesn't work on a lot of abilities, a quite often just ends in you taking more damage.
Thank you for your ending comments about the lance, one of the joys in playing this game is that all weapons were supposed to be equally viable against monsters, I remember back in the first monster Hunter when lance was awesome at stun locking with well timed pokes to the head and it was awesome . I simply cannot understand why as a lance fan, I should have to use another weapon to fight certain monsters. It makes no sense that lance was awesome against Xenojiva but when he grows up I am almost useless, Meanwhile the best weapons get better on every update. I have a safi blast lance fully upgraded and yes it is awesome, but compared to others at a similar level it is still vastly sub par. WTF is Capcom doing here? I don't want to master another fucking weapon, I don't have the fucking time, BUFF THE MOTHER FUCKING LANCE PLEASE.
vcvinny0721 What I really want to know myself is the average consistent dps of the lance and other weapons rather than they’re pure dps stats. The speedrun results show that the lance is the worst in dps compared to all other weapons, but I don’t believe that’s the best way to evaluate the weapons. Speedruns aim to do the perfect hunt with calculated stuns, weapon counters, and monster attacks, but this differs greatly from normal “free-lance” hunts. These hunts are usually unpredictable leaving lots of room for error and vulnerability for hunters at any skilly level. These are the hunts I want to know and judge each weapon on, how well and effective each one is from new players, experienced players, and professional players POV. The reason I love the lance so much is for it’s ability to consistent in any of these runs, being able to easily stick to the monster the whole fight if you’re skilled enough with the block timings and movement options. If you’re using a great sword and is able to pull off a true charge slash every single time, then it’s going to completely destroy the lance in dps. But you can never truely rely on doing that every hunt, you’re going to be knocked about, or may not be even given the chance or opportunity to charge a true charge slash, let alone hitting it. Unfortunately though there isn’t going to be an easy way to obtain that data :c unless a good part of the community came together, or a small group were extremely dedicated, I don’t think we’ll be able to get any solid info on consistent dps across all the weapons. As it is, I think the lance is in a good spot despite its comparatively bad pure dps, it makes up for it with its consistent dps and surprising flexibility.
@@lasbela5472 I agreed with you until you said that the lance is in a " good spot " but then maybe you are right, however " good " is the enemy of " GREAT " in my book and I want to be great like the HBG, greatsword, hammer, hell let me at least get close to at least one of the gunlance types, let's say normal. I am sorry but the numbers ,and not just these in the video, but all numbers show that the lance as much as we love it, is under performing. Be real, don't excuse it because you enjoy the gameplay, all lance users do, we play it in spite of its short comings. Give us something ,damnit, whether it be more agro, easier part break like the GS, just give us some damn thing. I will say it again for all lance users," Capcom, BUFF THE MOTHER FUCKING LANCE "
@@pipipermusic Yeah I can agree with that, unfortunately its kind of the trade off of trying to make the lance fit it's theme of "elegant gentleman's weapon." With that focus on the theme, it's face value just seems extremely boring and unexciting with it's (although consistent) small damage numbers and uneventful move set. My problem with changing the lance is that it may destroy/ruin it's original theme of "elegant gentleman's weapon" if not handled correctly. I'm afraid that (although I doubt that they'd add any) new moves to the lance could dilute it's core gameplay style of flexible guard points. Capcom could just boost the damage, but it could turn out that it was already doing fairly well dps wise in non-speedrun hunts compared to all other weapons, and a damage buff might just make the weapon too strong... however a little itch tells me that's not going to be the case xD but we never know without the data.
I believe if they were to buff the lance, it would have to centre around it's theme and core gameplay appeal and theme, being it's shield flexibility. I thought the offensive guard decoration/skills was an amazing feature for the lance kit, buffing the lances damage with it's gimmick rewarding you for playing the lance well and more aggressively. More changes relating to perfectly timed shield counters would be fantastic, maybe having a charge metre that fills up for every attack you block, with it being charged more for "perfect counters." Or maybe even having more move set options after certain blocks, whether it be a lunging block, a normal block, a counter block, or the safe super block.
One thing I do wish they alter about the lance is the Guard Up skill you gain from super blocking after 2-3 seconds. You can never rely on this for most unblock-able attacks with the time frame it gives you, and I wish it would grant you Guard Up just from simply using super block. I feel like this fits in perfectly with lance's major focus on its shield and theme, while also giving an extra lvl2 gem slot to fill into their builds. Super guard is also probably lance least aggressive move and usually isn't used much by myself unless I screw up or need to re-position, so having the Guard Up skill trigger instantly would give extra utility (and a higher skill ceiling/Extra thing to learn) in deflecting those quick unblock-able attacks.
Unfortunately for the lance you really need to love it's primary gameplay moveset or its going to end up being extremely disappointing. I for one love it the way it is and personally wouldn't mind it not being changed. However, most people can recognise its major short comings and I would be more than happy for added mechanics or changes to be made to it, assuming that it doesn't stray too much from the weapons original intent.
Tastes vary, but using a longsword feels like playing the game in a very dynamic way, while special scope spread or using stickes feels like glitching the game.
I couldn't agree more, I feel dirty everytime I sticky spam an enemy because I'm frustrated and just want it to die without having to actually try
can you show the average dmg or score difference next time so we can see which weapons had buffs?
My only problem is this isnt the TA list and I believe the TA rules are way more flexible when it comes to speedruning and considers more than just raw damage output. You should cross reference this with the TA teirlist
love the teirlist and break down.
11:24 As a lance main I second this
Sword and shield is just good
I'm a new player here and pick up lance for start weapon.
Why I choose it?
1. I don't know shiet about this game and monster attack pattern.
2. I want to survive even when I'm not doing damage. (At least learn monster pattern)
3. Stabbing every monster butthole!
4. I know they're not damaging as any other weapon.
5. Get carried!
That's why I think lance should be a good beginner weapon.
if I dont know anything, raise your shield and learn slowly.
Watched your birthday stream today. Happy 31st BDay!!!
very happy that the scores were explained thoroughly this time around rather than guesswork, gives a LOT more context to how good some weapons are or aren't.
What i would like to see changed for Hunting Horn is that they combine Selfimprovement with Attack up L so Hunting Horn will always have Attack up L which hopefully makes more Hunting Horns viable since Attack up L is a necessity and any HH without it is kinda bad, especially in Multiplayer. And when all HH have it they can be more creative with other buffs because it was always in the way and limited the possibilites.
I like the idea, but maybe make it an Attack up S, so it would still be great for the team, but Attack up L would still be an option for other horns.
What song is playing in the background of this video? I definitely heard it before, but I can't remember what it is...
This might not have anything to do with speed running but the idea of buffing mantles seem good for weapons. I was thinking of weapon class bonuses when paired with particular mantles.
Challenger mantle could last 50% longer and won't get used up till the time expires or the user gets hit 3 times if you're using the lance or gunlance.
Impact mantle could have while being used with hunting horn or hammer if you ko a monster their stun values won't increase and things like that.
As DB user i only trouble with kushala...any melee suggestions :)?
Happy birthday dad!
I mean weapons like for example Longsword, which does require you to build up your damage first by building spirit meters tend to not do as good in speedruns compared to weapons ike Greatsword, HBG etc. which can pretty much go all out right from the beginning. I'm not sure about this, but I guess that might be the reason why IG, LS etc. are not doing great on Speedrun Tier lists.
In previous games there was a skill called taunt. It used to cause you to have more aggro throughout the hunt. Could bring it back for lance
Also, lance got the least changes in iceborne and I feel this caused most talented players passing it by. I would like to see the lance go back to the pre iceborne element damage
I love a lot of weapons but Lance is a great weapon too and it deserves to pack some punch. Please buff lance.
ITV: Gameconomist speculates about the crawl weapons, acts surprised about HBG's domination of cheesing (for like, the 5th or 6th game in a row,) and claims to what CAPCOM should or should not be doing with a dataset that he wildly speculates about the meaning of. He then continues his episodic whine about the Lance, which in practice he never manages to shortstop the charge for the 3-hits into an uppoke combo, instead he just charges and misses the ending shot most of the time. But when people point this out, he opens up his Guildcard and says "nuh uh, I have a whole bunch of Lance hunts." Like that changes the 3 second input habit- because charging through people trying to finish the quest is much more fun amirite?
In his defense, not even the devs seem to know about the shortstop charge combo. In the recent "Iceborne - Lance" trailer, they didn't use it once.
watch?v=WzDuCGxtd2I
Really puts a lot of the Iceborne lance changes into perspective, they don't seem to have anyone on their team that plays the lance extensively, or at least enough to realize it could at least use some QoL.
I agree despite his time spent on the weapon he doesnt seem to use it very well but i still think he has a point about the lance could use some buffs. Maybe giving it guard up easier, or a way to aggro the monster or just more damage or QOL. Lance is super fun imo just could use a little help compared to the other weapons that have been given plenty of help as it is
Gunlance has fallen because the dps is basically the same from iceborne base, since long is still used in some speedruns, hopefully since raging brachy brought so much to other playstiles it should rise in the next months
Already liked. Good morning!
Just a question, what is that outtro music from? Idk why it sounds familiar
Poderia dizer q essa lista é das armas com o maior dps?
I'm a Lance Main and I use guard up in my armor because the built in one sucks. Waiting 2 seconds lmao Velkhanas ice breath will melt you.
I like Lance. Just charge more and hit weak spots with BEEG Thrust and you'll do more damage.
Evade Lance Bros for life!!!
So i played bow through the whole standard game, then longsword through iceborne. I never went for them cause of any statistics from speedrunners or popularity. But seeing this list makes me intrested about testing other weapons.
There is a super dedicated community for HH, guess that’s the reason why lance isn’t performing better than HH
HH can also dish out pretty decent damage with the new overtone move it got. Lance is still just lance.
I don't have finished the vidéo and i know what weapon would be the slowest... 😭😭 Poke Poke have a hard Time...
I am very surprised that hammer is ranked so low. I always felt like it's too OP in iceborne. Big surprise.
This is mhw's nooblets
Thanks for the video, I'll give a try to S&S I'm curious about it.
Lance has a high damage uptime on the boss. Speedrunners have a high damage uptime regardless of what they play.
HOWEVER especialy in multiplayer most weapons (excluding lance) will have to sheat, dodge, heal, run away or what not. Lance will not xD
Lance maintains a high damage uptime on the boss. I'm not gonna say it maintains speedrun damage uptime but it sure as hell is able to stick to the monster like glue if played properly.
You got to take that into account when looking at posible buffs to the weapon.
Kinda hard to not want to use longsword when it has a fun rewarding playstyle
And tripping other players to feel like a pvp pro
@@quekZo95 if you're a good LS player you won't trip up your hammer bros :P
@@guii5041 im not a weeb. LS is boring as fuck
@@quekZo95 You don't have to be a weeb to play LS 😂
LS ain't my main I play Hammer, SNS ans HH aswell bro stop being so immature lol
@@guii5041 weeb
the average score and average rank are exactly the same thing except one goes up and one goes down you could even say the score also gives the same result you have 3 columns that all provide the same information
When are you doing 2 hours of anxiety inducing Sword and Shield gameplay?
I am really surprised by hammer being so low on the list. Also, wtf insect glaive? What is the impetus to use that needlessly overcomplicated of a weapon if the damage is garbage as well? Everything from hammer down likely needs looked at as underperforming. Although if brachy wasn't included in these results, gunlance potentially could be moving up.
If it had garbage damage wouldn't it be lower on the list lol.
Capcom just seems to hate the insect Glaive. It’s sad being an IG main these days
@@fahimrahman7675 man I like the idea of insect glaive but it's just dual blades but aerial. It doesn't have that oomf that long sword sns or hammer have. I wish it did cus I like how it looks
Guii Some context: I started the series with generations and insect Glaive was one of the weapons I was intrigued in but didn’t have the materials to make it work (the insect was really hard to make viable because all the good bugs were endgame). I finally made the transition from Greatsword to IG and have been in love with it ever since. I love bugs and the aerial style made it so fucking stylish, zipping around the map and dishing out a lot of damage, so it did definitely have some oomf back then. In world, they nerfed it to the ground and I still don’t know why since they already nerfed it in generations in comparison to 4U. It’s the main reason why I think Capcom hates the IG. If it had better motion values, aerial wasn’t abysmal and the bug buffs were like what it was before it definitely would be closer to what I think IG should be, a stylish, fluid and powerful weapon.
Guii I think in Iceborne they did make some improvements, the descending thrust is so sexy and amazing for dodging and repositioning. It’s also pretty powerful, only being beat by the tornado slash. Most people ignore it because the people are just averse to aerial IG play, but the IG speedrunners like Pochi (who you should definitely check out) use it really effectively for stunning runs. There’s also the fact that kinsects are buffed but people ignore the bugs for some reason. The descending thrust auto marks the monster so bug management is easier. But although I think that iceborne IG is much better than world IG, the motion values still suck so it means little. I pray that IG gets the sword and shield treatment and gets a massive damage buff somehow. They can add all the gimmicks they want but if the moves aren’t inherently strong, it’s not gonna compete with the heavy hitters.
HBG is the least enjoyable weapon in the game for me. Yet it's such easy mode it's makes encounters a joke. I can only imagine those who like playing it are having a blast. Longsword will always be the most played cause foresight slash is fun and satisfying. Even if it does mediocre damage it is fun for general play. I wish more melee weapons had a counter like that and a perfect rush style combo that SnS has(not necessarily damage wise but timing on inputs required).
I agree it's the reason why I play mostly LS, S&S and CB (guard points), they all reward you for good timing which Is what I'm good at.
@@Malakith I just wish lbg got some love. yea we got stickies, but other than that, there is no reason to not run either hbg or bow as they do what lg tries to do but better. Not to mention our special ammo is very situational and in all honesty, is very boring to use. It does damage but it lacks impact and feels more like a chore than anything. raw lbg outside the use of stickies is actual hot garbage, slicing is actually useless, and elemental shot's do mediocre damage due to how they and the elemental hitzones work. So while stickies are mindless and boring, it's the only thing us lbg mains get...
LET'S GO SNS!!!
The hammer is the most skewed in my opinion. No idea how these speedrunners us it as if you use evade decos you can stay power charged a lot longer and even avoid getting hit. If your getting hit more often your not going to deal more damage. Add to the fact depending on the terrain or monster I use it differently. If a monster is always airborne I keep doing the jump attack move off a ledge and either mount it or straight up knock it down, the jump attack deco helps as well does 30percent more damage. If there's a slope forget about it. Just one sliding deco adds 30percent affinity and if you know what your doing you can be harder to hit when performing the move. I should try one of these speed runs. I always play with other people never really tried to get best times. For me it's all about mounting and not dying at all.
É demorado produzir dano com ele quando comparamos com outras armas, o movimento bang é um bom exemplo, muito forte mas você não tem atalhos pra chegar nele.
HBG for farming. GS for fun.
I hate getting HBG/Bow and especially LBG as teammates. It just makes the quest too trivial with that infinite CC.
True. However, as an lbg main may I point out that sticky ammo is the only thing lbg gets. Bow can do element and status better than lbg. Hbg does every raw shot better than lbg and can also run status if desired. Hbg get's clust which, even after the heavy nerf, is still an effective option. Slicing doesn't even function properly anymore ( can't cut tails ). The land mines suck. They do damage but they are very situational and feel more like a chore rather than a cool new thing to use. They are very boring. So while sticky lbg is brain dead and stupid, Capcom and the mh team have made it so that sticky lbg is the only way for lbg to become it's own gun, rather than just a lesser hbg or bow. Also don't even bring up evading reload to me.
I’m just waiting for a decoration farm that’s better then greatest Jaguars or lavasioth
There is on pc already. It is the tempered zinogre event quest. It gave me yesterday challenger+
M. H. ...... thank you for this knowledge
@@m.h.4907 it's good but no way near as good as lavasioth and jagras. He doesnt drop feystones mid fight.
@@juanisaias8308 but he has a very chance to drop base game rare decos. Got a lot of rare t2/t3 jewels from it too, even I didn't need them
@@m.h.4907 yes, but it's just not the same type of quest. I was clarifying for Wizzy.
clutch claw ruined the meta for weapons melee weapons with high burst get better times because knock downs are so easy now thats why lance is below hunting horn doesnt mean an average player would be faster with hh over lance
great sword all tha way babyy.
happy birthday
It's simple... All lance mains jumped to HBG with shield mods.
It's a huge leap in DPS, without too much of a change in playstyle
Still, I'm glad to see the Swaxe pulling decent numbers, it's such a fun weapon to use...
here's my issue with looking at lists like these. each weapons plays different and has a niche role they it tries to fulfill. this game isn't necessarily just about taking down the monster as fast as you can. it's about taking down the monster period, or in the way you want to achieve that. a Lance takes down a monster by steadily and repeatedly dealing small chips of damage while others have to back out while it's attacking (which means for burst damage during downs that speed runners take advantage of, it's losing that battle). hunting horns thrive at buffing teammates for multi-player, meaning during just single play speed running of course it's not being as beneficial to what that weapon is aiming for. those are just two examples. i understand this list is good to look at for speed running reasons, but i don't think it should be a viable option to look at how each weapon is doing independently at what it is aiming to do. if this game was solely just about speed running, yes it would be. but i thankfully (at least thankfully in my opinion) it's not. but regardless, everyone should play how they want. (-obligatorily said to avoid people getting butt hurt)
A lot of words to say lance IS TRAAAASSSHHHH. I play dual blades and I thought long sword was op. I think as long as the builds are good. Its fine
@@swiggityswo9558 one hunter's trash is the next hunter's treasure.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
bowguns being as strong as they are is kinda justified my boy.
you are immobile, take more damage than melee players and it's not particularly fun to play with bowguns.
it's essentially just "throw rocks until monster is dead".
melee users at least have an interesting moveset to watch.
us bowguns users...well...we're here for the damage. that's it.
Raging brachy does so much damage(multi hit explosions) that I still die with Lance guard(guard 5 and guard up btw), only way to survive raging brachy explosions is with power guard
Vils yea, while HBG with 3x shield mods and guard 5 can just chill next to Brachy and tank explosions all day. I love HBG but man it’s shield shouldn’t blatantly be stronger than a lance shield...
Well actually as long as you have health augments on your Lance you should be able to negate the chip entirely assuming your countering, plus you straight up avoid the explosions with gaurd dashes
As a Hammer user, Hunting horn is so boring to play. Slow swings, horrible jump attack, less damage.
I use both hammer and HH and to be honest HH is better overall. It's spin2win attack does so much damage and with a good build AND attack up XL it's just a beast. I love hammer's spinning attack but HH is just a better version of the hammer overall just less flashy,its also much more versatile as you could play support or offensive and you're still godlike if you know what you're doing!
One thing i don't get: The TA wiki rules. Those runs follow the rules, but there isn't a category for an open run? A lot of battle styles depends on mantles or other stuff (Switch axe infinite zero sum for instance). And why those rules? Who benefits from it?
Maxwell Souza comes from the community, same as speedrunning itself cause capcom doesn’t care about runners
This site records all types of runs, not just TA, if you look at the top runs for most weapons, most aren't following ta rules, TA is for an extra challenge and that wiki leaderboard
Maxwell Souza Because the rules test every weapon to their limit.
New list?
Your list is wrong hammer says its #9 but it's supposed to be #1. Hammer >everything
Exactly
@@Weda_Bretajune no just no lmfao it's fun to play with but there are better weapons lol hammer just bang head ooga booga