Disillusionment with Jeet Kune Do • Ft. Former JKD Instructor Matt Thornton
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Jeet Kune Do promotes itself as a martial art which is a combination of effective techniques. It's no coincidence that Bruce Lee said: "Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own". But what if in the end in most cases it is actually false advertising?
Join Matt Thornton, founder of Straight Blast Gym International as he shares what made him leave JKD decades ago to pursue other martial arts.
For more SBG International BJJ and MMA instructional videos check: www.sbguniversity.com
Also, check the BJJ Q&A with founder of SBG Matt Thornton here: • Gi vs No Gi & Rolling ...
#JKD #JeetKuneDo #MartialArts
I dabbled in all sorts of martial arts over the years and eventually got a black belt in BJJ. It's funny though that after all that time I realized that all one needs for 99 percent of self-defense scenarios is boxing and some descent wrestling. Yes, for MMA you need BJJ and kicks but it's overkill for street application. All that searching and I could have just found a good boxing gym probably within 20 to 30 minutes from my house. I could have taken the wrestling I did in high school more seriously and simply trained powerlifting. That would have eliminated nearly all potential threats but because it wasn't "exotic" or "mystical" I ignored it even though it was right under my nose.
I helps sure and it is indispensable to know it,but it is not the real purpose of martial arts,with boxing and wresting the most strong will near all time win but the real philosophie of martial art is that the weakest or a woman can win with technic
That’s a great point. Thanks for sharing your view point.
@User Name I see many people training boxing not better than this China fake masters... I was Thai and kick boxing trainer, most of the praticant have a very bad level even after years.. Only few becomes really good
@Ricardo Rodriguez I would still do boxing. Muay thai is essential for MMA but for self-defense I would just go with boxing. I'm not a big fan of throwing kicks in street situations where people are trying to beat the crap out of you. Being up on one leg puts you off balance and you need to be wearing loose pants which is isn't always the case. I sometimes have to stretch for 20 minutes just to kick normally. In a real situation you don't have that luxury. Also, such attacks are over very quickly and boxing doesn't take very long to get good at to be effective against an untrained attacker.
@@bono894 I did a little bit of boxing and muay thai and I've also come to think that nothing is faster than a punch; what that means is that the only person who has good chances of intercepting a sucker punch is a boxer and the fastest surprise you can serve when your life is threatened is a punch as well. Being grabbed is not very dangerous in itself, especially if you're fit and lift weights; you'll have time to scream for help and if the altercation happens in a messy room, stair case, train, bus etc. there's a decent chance that your feet are more or less 'nailed' to the floor or you're sitting down and there's very little room for elaborate techniques. You can still throw a knock-out punch sitting down and if you happen to be wearing gloves or mitts or you have injuries in one arm or hand your grip may not be the best but it won't matter much because you can still throw a knock-out punch with one or both hands. Also not saying boxing is better than X but it is my perception that these points are rarely brought up; I feel that self-defense should emphasize simplicity and speed, which makes it more accessible to the average person who wants to increase their chances of survival (their chances of getting away). Young guys full of testosterone naturally obsess about these things way more than they need because they do not distinguish survival from 'fights' and they want to be Terminator, pack leader, alpha, a movie protagonist in their own head; it's about asserting dominance in a certain masculine subculture.
You can never learn how to fight unless someone throws a punch at your face with the intent to hit you and you have to defend yourself.
👍
Agreed. One of the problems I see coming into BJJ is that you can go white to black in many places without ever getting cracked in the grill or eating some solid leg kicks.
@@jameslyons6655 True. In a real fight, No one is going to let you into grappling range and not throw a punch or two.
@@jameslyons6655 the problem that I have with BJJ, is that because they train with resistance (a resisting, non-cooperative opponent) they end up thinking that they’re the ultimate end of the road when it comes to real fighting. But, as far asBJJ by itself? No.
@@jameslyons6655 In my opinion, Bjj is most effective on the ground. Learning how to box is imperative since many fights start by swinging a punch. Then, wrestling or grappling is needed in any form because many fights tend to go to the ground also.
All he's doing is telling His life story, Not saying anything About JKD
He's talking about People
Thanks for saving me 10mins
Plus, he doesn’t look like he’s in shape at all.
Thanks.
yes lol
Yeah that’s Matt.
Jeet Kune Do Was never meant to be learn. It was Bruce Lee's personal style of fighting, that's why he emphasized people being honest with their selves when it came to fighting. He also talked about the willingness to adapt to other styles
Exactly. The JKD that I learned focused a TON on Grappling, Muay Thai and Boxing. Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do is his method, his patterns and footwork etc. That is all good stuff, but Bruce Lee knew, and said, that a good Boxer or Wrestler would be a tough opponent. So Bruce studied Boxing, and Wrestling (as well as Savate, Fencing, Catch Wrestling, Judo, Jujutsu, FMA, etc.) and he incorporated it into his Wing Chun base. There is nothing wrong at all with JKD, it is just about being comfortable applying it in the specific context, be that MMA or a street fight. That is based on sparring and realistic training for the fight you will be engaged in. Watch my coach Jesse James Kosakowski. He is an up and coming MMA fighter who uses, primarily, JKD and Catch Wrestling as his base. He has had a lot of success with it.
beware of the false JKD sensei read The TAO of JEET KUNE DO
@@unboundfull and then also read a basic fencing book so you can figure out what he is talking about....
Theodore Wurz I trained with his father, Ron, many moons ago at a Richard Bustillo seminar in Waterbury, CT at around 2000-2001. The focus of the entire day was grappling. Definitely the real deal. Maybe it's just me but Bustillo seemed to be more concerned with fighting that Inosanto. I remember my instructor telling me Guro Dan was doing a Silat demo at a JKD instructor conference back it the day; Bustillo walked by as Inosanto was doing some sort of Silat low stance and muttered, "That shit doesn't work." Needless to say, the Inosanto groupies were upset by it. I felt refreshed to hear it because I thought most of Silat that i saw wasn't going to work well against a trained fighter. If I were interested in dancing, I'd take capoeira or just a straight dance class. Bustillo seemed to be much more focused on boxing, Muay Thai, and catch/bjj...and Doce Pares Escrima. If ya took the FMA out of the mix, most of the training at his seminars looked like modern mma training.
I liked Guru Ron's willingness to mix it up. Him and Eric Cologne (current UFC judge and NJ school owner) were the only ones to give me a hard time with grappling. It was a great seminar. I remember doing 5 on 5 grappling at the end of that seminar! Great times.
I don't even advertise as teaching JKD anymore; not for a while now actually. I do consider what we teach to be JKD concepts (mma with dirty tactics mixed in) but do very little Jun Fan as my wing Chun skills are limited and rarely use trapping when sparring. Idk anyone who spars a lot and says that they can successfully use Jun Fan trapping tactics. Actually, I find some of the trapping and "energy drills" to be a little useful when hand-fighting in grappling or from a top-position, ground n pound situation. I am however able to use some muay Thai traps/checks to clear a line to hit on. Just my input.
@@anthonygerber8261 Ron is the man. He is also my main Coach. I consider both Ron and Jesse to be a wealth of knowledge when it comes to fighting. Jesse strictly trains for MMA as he is a professional MMA fighter. His grappling is primarily Catch based with a ton of Bjj and Judo which he has trained his whole life. His striking is heavily based on JKD. He uses the bladed stance, the left hand lead, interceptions and the side kick etc. He will switch to Muay Thai or Boxing as the situation calls for it. Personally, I just think of my striking as Kickboxing or MMA striking and my Grappling as modern no gi grappling with a ton of Catch thrown in. I also focus on Catch/Shooto in order to preserve it. Ron is HUGE into the FMA Kuntao and Kali. Personally I have not studied them but he swears by them. I think they do work once you can fight in a full contact sport sense. Once you are totally comfortable striking and grappling with someone who knows how to do it, then adding in breaks, eye gouges, bites etc., can be very effective; but again I just focus on sports not weapons based systems. Those other styles are designed to be weapons based and you only fight empty handed to get back to your weapon. Silat and Kuntao are very similar. I think they do work with proper training and in the proper context, but I also think MMA should always be the fundamentals. You need to be able to strike and grapple, then, if you want to, you can add in weapons based arts, including Silat.
I have been with Guiro Dan Inosanto for over 25 years and haven't experienced any of that. I am sorry that you had this experience. They teach a plethora of techniques and principles. Absorb what is useful.
you can’t even spell Guro correctly
@@billybob1620 NPC reply
@@billybob1620 The güiro is a percussion instrument consisting of an open-ended, hollow gourd with parallel notches cut in one side. It is played by rubbing a stick or tines (see photo) along the notches to produce a ratchet sound. The güiro is commonly used in Cuban, Puerto Rican, and other forms of Latin American music.
@@billybob1620 really. Wow. I see why you had a bad experience
It sounds like Matt Thornton didn't study under Guro Inosanto directly. Rather, he studied under instructors who had been students of Guro Inosanto.
Spar spar spar. Otherwise you waste your time
thats true I have the same opinion
Exactly man. I think it should go like- technique theory and shadowing it-> drills->sparring. If you miss one of the steps it's gonna do no good. I did karate for 2 years with basically no sparring and it got me some good reactions but the first time I put on a boxing gloves and went to spar with a friend I had big problems. I didn't understand distance, rhytm and turned my back to my opponent while getting punched because I wasn't used for it. You need to experience pressure to be able to deal with high pressure chaotic situation like a real fight is
Self defense is not a boxing match. Whenever my friends were in a fight I always went around the back and choked the guys out. Sparing is definitely useful, but locking yourself into one on one matches is also artificial. The great problem of self defense is how to replicate realism. Fundamentally it's not possible, but I think, like swimming drills, what's important in any artificial situation is understanding why you're doing it, what you're replicating, and where it is artificial.
@@eend497 yeah self defense is more like mma match with different settings with no rules
Yessir
Can't help but be intrigued by the comments on silat.
I'm by no means a practitioner of silat, but I am Malaysian and it's embedded in the culture somewhat.
In this sense, I think it's important to know the historical and cultural context of the martial arts to understand the motivation behind certain movements or techniques.
Eg:
Traditionally, here in southeast Asia, we sit cross-legged on the floor (I'm typing this while sitting cross-legged) so you have to be ready for attacks in this very common position.
As for pauses/deliberation, or distance between practitioners - we don't do this anymore - but in the past, no respectable man will leave his house without his keris, wavy bladed dagger, and as such silat was originally meant to be practiced with keris and other bladed weapons - hence the distance and deliberation.
Either way, that's my take and I hope it shed some light on silat/southeast Asia/Malaysia-Indonesia.
Some people don't understand or lack the ability to try and understand why it is done. Even an instructor/ don't know why it is. They just teaching it the way the picked it up and learned or just from a teacher book.... But thanks for sharing this learned something today. I love looking at culture whenever I look at different systems cause it helps to understand why they use or did a particular move or something the way they did. Even Bruce Lee time and era.
Bruce mentions tossing out the classical mess and then Dan added a shit ton of classical mess...
Just learn the basics. The basics. The basics. Perfect those basics. Apply the basics when sparring muay thai/mma.
Gossip is the most historical classical mess
Truth is always respect for paying students that dont know any better..
@reppohkered LOL it means that pre set historical patterns and techniques that have been repeated for centuries just building and building on them to the point where its like a dance so far from reality.." a classical mess"
LMAO...yeap!
its not always about the martial art you use or which is the best, its about your dedication to learn to adapt,and overcome , improvise ,improve and make yourself your own as there are many things to learn,its not only about the art but also about improving yourself.
I'm sure if Bruce was teaching JKD it would be practical -- it all comes down to the sincerity of the practitioner, not the style. Thank you for this interesting and enlightening conversation.
Practical and efficient.
I feel the same with kenpo... I basically just keep it once a week because i still like the traditionnal side of it but honestly when it comes to fighting and self defense i know that my boxing and bjj practice is way more valuable
@@stanclark3992 lmap explain how hes wrong kenpo is damn useless 😆😆😆
Matt is 100% correct about the collection of certifications being overvalued in JKD lineage. There is definitely a point in JKD where some people focus on perfecting a core set of effective combative techniques and others try to accrue as many techniques/credentials from the their JKD instructors as possible. I definitely side with Matt's opinion on the topic. I do, however respect both paradigms. The martial artists that emphasize "Martial" AND the martial artists that emphasize "art".
I think Bruce died too early for what he created to actually mature, so most JKD masters might not really get a true feel of the complete picture as he originally would.
Sounds like Real Talk to me. One can't knock Mr Thornton for his honesty. My JKD history may be a little rusty but considering everything he is saying is exactly why Bruce Lee requested that all JKD schools be closed. In a sense JKD eventually became like any other classical school which is what Lee was trying to avoid.
Considering that JKD was never a style and always evolving, it would propose that this is still JKD concept 😉 "His" JKD... remember Bruce Lee never wanted this to be a style and he always wanted the "Concept" to be evolving...
yeah it was actually Bruce's own concepts for his own training and evolution.... the problem is that alot of folks ended up imitating his movements and what ever old sylabus there was instead of practicing the concept and path he took......the Idea is to deepen your foundation learn the rules and then break em ....as long as you have foundation in something then you can add and take away....otherwise without a foundation in one expression or style what is there to add to and what is there to dump.
@@mdub2000 Bruce Lee did have a set method that he wanted people to learn and master. The "take what is useful, discard the rest" was about mastering his method first, then you could take what worked for you and make your own Jeet Kune Do. My Jeet Kune Do, is basically a form of Kickboxing, but that is because I am mostly interested in MMA. You could also say my Jeet Kune Do also looks like Catch Wrestling and Bjj at times because I learned those methods through JKD. So what is JKD? It is Bruce Lee's methods and ideas. After that, lets not get bogged down in the weeds.
JKD was taught only to his core students. Once he died Dan Inosanto modified the certifications to be JKD Concepts to differentiate those trained directly by Bruce Lee. But in either case it was meant to be an evolving art, not a static list of forms and content.
today JKD is a Tshirt
I agree. I stated in martial arts after reading Tao Of Jeet Kun Do. It was clear to me at a young age that Bruce wanted everybody to develop their own way from his teachings. In his book he said each practitioner shroud Taylor their “style” the way one would have a jacket made to fit THEM! I have always been completely fascinated with the people who claim to do JKD mimic the style of Bruce. So confusing to me. I always listen on my websites along with other rank that I trained in JKD concepts. Bruce had great and useful techniques but the things he taught were meant to be a fountain and individually developed into more, built upon the “concept” of JKD.
Thanks for pointing out this really clear point that Bruce himself made.
Jeet kune do is a really great martial art. Just have to keep up with it as well. It's a system that only consists of your own expression. After learning the foundation, you create your own system of jeet kune do.
I really think its depends on a person's minds ..i have been training jkd for 6 years and it has save my ass in a multiple attacks..specially living in mexico city, i have used jkd for self defense and my boxing also , jkd is very effective if you come to an understanding how to apply the techniques and the mindset , i have faced weapon attacks about 20 times but jkd has saved me , and it's all about facing the " fear"
Wao as estado en alrededor de 20 peleas en las calles? No se mucho de jkd pero pienso que cualquier Arte Marcial donde hagas sparring con un oponente poniendo resistencia te ayudara a avolucionar en tu estilo de peleas.
No has enfrentado 20 veces a gente con armas, deja de mentirle a la gente y mentirte a ti mismo. Si tienes que pelear tanto es por un problema tuyo, no donde vives. Eres de la misma calaña de mentiroso que he visto mil veces en instructores de artes marciales "tradicionales" y justamente del tipo de gente que se habla en el video.
I'd move
I think Bruce Lee said it best "If you inflate your tire to 60psi then it runs bad. if you inflate your tire to 20psi then it runs bad, if you inflate your tire to 40psi then it runs good. Be a tire my friend".
JKD is fun! You ever tried Savat?
I studied tae kwon do, judo, boxing, greco Roman wrestling, then i moved to L.A. and started wing chung, and jet kun do, i was a bouncer and bodyguard for 20 yrs and jet kun do, helped me perfect what i already knew, i got into martial arts so i could fight in the steets back home where i grew up, it was a very rough neibourghood, so yes it worked very well for me, in L.A. during the peak of the crips, bloods, ms13, 18 st, i was working as a bouncer or doorman in many clubs and strip joints, i never had a gun, i felt i didnt need one , sorry things didnt work for you, but 20 yrs it did work for me.
If I were to take JKD classes today, it would literally be just for "say so". Back in the mid 90s when i became heavily influence by Bruce Lee and is strength training philosophy, i had a Thai friend who went to Jeet Kun Do school in California, and he was really good, i mean really good. I opted to take Wing Chun because I felt the JKD school wasn't mentored long enough by BL to develop my own focus as a novice student. Even my friend advised me to do Wing Chun first. I faded away from the ideology of martial arts many years after that and there is a JKD school here in Virginia. I scoped out their website, and man, it just doesn't seem real anymore. I hate to disparage it, but one can write anything and make it look good on a web page. The real only true art is from Bruce Lee himself.
He's right. I'm also a JKD instructor, not JKDC nor OJKD, i did both and realized that most of those peps were more concerned/interested in getting certified or to preserve what Bruce discarded himself than to really apply those thing, to sparr or to do scenario with resisting opponents. So I'm one of those 1% of the JKD instructors who can fight and who are only interested in real life fighting instead of keeping the classical mess
Shut up.
It’s all about sparring brother
@Nic777
There was just one Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do died with him in 1973. So be a leader not a follower.
How are you a JKD instructor when Bruce Lee himself said he cannot be a teacher. There is literally nothing to instruct.
@@mauricepatrickoconnor5634 For the most part, I think you are right. The JKD Concepts is just commercialized bullshit created to pack in students and make money. I do not think those of the Dan Inosanto lineage are teaching anything close to Bruce's Jeet Kune Do. I studied at the Inosanto Academy for six years and it was only after leaving that place that I realized just how different/inferior the JKD Concepts was from Bruce Lees' Jeet Kune Do. I do, however think that Tommy Carruthers' Jeet Kune Do instruction and philosophy is close to what Bruce had in mind and watching his Jeet Kune Do videos has helped me to fill in the gaps of what I was not taught at the Inosanto Academy.
True, JKD is an absolute mess since 1973. Collection of techniques and styles to keep students interested and the student numbers high. Most of Bruce students are more like white or yellow belts in jkd. Once he died, everyone became a jkd authority.
I have to agree with you. Everyone is still trying to do what Bruce had already thrown out of the JKD skillset. Too much traditional dry land swimming and organized despair. Well said JKD Frankfurt.
May it be well with you.
@@Perun.Tha.Unvaxxd Yes, America is also known for one principle. Its not important what you know, but who you know.
@@ThomasMarxJeetKuneDoIFO (laughs) that's true for those that are stuck with *traditional americanism*.
One must always seek to grow past such things...in my opinion of course :-)
May it be well with you JKD Frankfurt
Wrong. JKD is just a principle,not a style. If u consider JKD is a mess,then u are a mess because JKD encourages an individual to "choose" and learn MA thats suitable for that specific individual
@@phoenixj1299 well, not stile, doesn't mean moving from style to style, jkd has principals, simplicity, directness and efficiency.
I've studied a variety of styles (Including JKD hence the convoluted martial arts journey) I'm afraid you could be talking about any of them. Some are on a warrior's journey - most want to make money, form cliques and give out certificates as a cash cow. I suspect it was always so.
It seems like everyone is measuring their art by a duel. This is a fallacy. You need to train for the application you're going to encounter. What works in the ring only works in the street when the conditions are similar.
Bruce taught directness, simplicity, adaptability. Mixed martial arts has an ever increasing list of techniques (just look at the UFC video games). Bruce wants to finish the fight at the furthest distance with the fewest moves.
Real JKD is in the name. Intercepting fist. Catch your opponent on the half beat. Train attributes, adapt for your frame and ability. Simplify. Find one principle and train that from different angles and scenarios with resisting opponents.
that is all nice and good if you are up against an untrained bully. When you are up against a boxer you do not stand a chance unless you have done some boxing yourself, same goes for Muy-Tai.
@Milk Jugzzz The JKD people have some kind of boxing "Juan Fan Kickboxing", so they are not that easy, specially when in good shape.
The point of a boxer is that he is always there where you won`t hit him. So to know wee bit of boxing moves isn´t cut it until you have the legwork. A boxer in shape will outdance a normal martial art guy though.
@Milk Jugzzz It depends on the fighter.
But if a MMA fighter had done some boxing and is able to avoid getting hit and is used to "dancing" he has the advantage of using kicking distance and grappling distance as well, while the the boxer will be superior in arm-length distance.
Attacking the boxers legs with low kicks while staying out of arm-distance would be my strategy to survive against a boxer. Against a MMA fighter I would only have the possibility of taking him by surprise with a mixture of Boxing/Wing-Tsung hand and Karate "forward jumping" aka "straight blast"
because 30 seconds later I will not be able to do much, because I am out of breath.
But this strategy is not going to work against people with good reflexes which jump back ... than I am f******d
@Milk Jugzzz my "street fights" fell in two categories, those guys which are small and I can play with - I just knock them a bit when they come in distance until they get frustrated and give up and fighting guys which are big and /or have muscles.
Those I jumped, and hammered their heads, until they were K.O. I do not believe in kicks or body blows - just the head will do it.
I do not even hammer hart, but the shaking of the brain will do it. No blood. Nothing broken, no permanent damage.
bum bum bum - Mr. Sandman bring me a dream
ruclips.net/video/CX45pYvxDiA/видео.html
Sasoriko, with all due respect, It sounds like you might have spent too much time discussing martial arts philosophy with the "untested" traditional MA crowd. Unfortunately you may only realise this after the day you actually fight a "ring fighter" in a street situation and if that happens, I am sorry to say this but I honestly wish you the very best of luck for that fight or any afterwards because you are seriously going to need it if you are not skilled enough.
He trained in a concepts school. That was the problem.
Jue lie!!!! Kiap ya ha!!! 👊🤛
@Justin Stout back in the early 90's and 80's Dan Inosanto was pushing concepts heavily. He even had a book promoting the concepts approach. I think Bruce's art has been perverted and turned into the antithesis of what he intended. Not saying it's Dan's fault but Bruce's death was unexpected.
@@vedder10 Right. The offhand term became a movement. This gentleman didn't quit JKD; he quit Dans Concept method of instruction is what he meant.
@@JustinStoutArt Great point, no excellent point. Bruce was constantly going through an evolutionary process that would have likely gone on even way after his physical gifts started to erode. I have trained in Paul Vunak's methods and I like it very much but is still a representation of Paul's interpretation and not what Bruce might have concluded. Even BJJ has a ton of wholes like weapon defense and they all have awareness holes that strict self-defense schools bring to the table. The quick and dirty of it is find what works for you like Bruce said.
Thornton did mention that he met some of the original students who basically was doing wing chun
JKD in the 80's was what "crotty" was in the 70's, only to be replaced by BJJ in the 1990's and MMA recently, and that will be replaced by something else soon. These things come and go, I wouldn't worry about it. Train as hard as you can in your chosen style, do not look with disdain upon other styles, but take from them things that you find useful. Or do not, but keep an open mind.
Yes the deadly art of Imaboutabeatcha
Yes, every 10 years we get a new top Art the best sliced bread. Your whole life in the Journey you'll hear "Mine's Better". Enjoy. Started at 16, I'm 65 still learning and training.
that's it, that's the true path.
I have a boxing background and then got into Kung fu/taiji for many years...eventually getting back into boxing when realizing the Kung fu isn’t quite what I thought it was. The taiji was interesting tho. I was able to go to a school that just did seminars with these taiji masters that were from all over the world. There’s something to it but it’s definitely NOT what they teach at your local taiji schools. The real thing is very rare but really incredible to experience.
That’s very true.
I learned JKD Concepts from someone who was an instructor under Larry Hartsell and I thought taiji was stupid. Then I got cancer and was on chemo and radiation and I did taiji...it was all I could handle at the time being sick, but it always helped.
Is tai chi good for fighting? Here is my tai chi story
Due to my kidneys shutting down before I went to dialysis I was experiencing extreme tightness in my legs I found it difficult to walk more than a few feet without being in excruciating pain and crying real tears. I lost my ability to walk properly and I was angry bitter and frustrated because I have been an athlete all of my adult life and from childhood as well. One day I decided to go back to the Marshall art that I had dismissed in my 30s TA I CHI. I enrolled in the class and after two weeks I was able unexpectedly to walk the length of two football fields. It was amazing the only thing I had done differently within that time. Was it take these classes and do someExercises called” tiger walking”. I can honestly say that doing these exercises and the various other walking exercises help my leg strength tremendously and sent me onto the road of rehabilitation.
All due to a martial art I had dismissed as useless. Not everything has to be used for fighting in my case I was fighting for my life back. So I guess it is good for Friday after all
@@TheSubwaysurfer I'm really glad to hear you're doing better man! I'm gonna give you the most honest answer i possibly can. Hear it goes...
The "real thing' is extremely hard to find. If you go to your local tai chi school like you have, you Will learn something that is going to help your body circulate and become soft. By becoming soft, you are in fact learning to RELEASE....which is a key word in tai chi. Keep at it, there will be a lot of physical and mental benefits that will come. But 95% of the art that has spread around the world is a watered down version of "the real thing". When you feel a legit internal arts master you will know. When he touches you, you can't move. He will have complete control over your body. Internal arts absolutely good for fighting but it has to be studied for years and years with spiritual intent. It is an energy art at it's root. It was designed for spiritual liberation.
People really need to understand what JKD really is. JKD is "not " a style. So basically you can't say "JKD works " or "JKD won't work" because the whole principle of JKD is for "you" to learn what's necessary for you. It's childish to say "it won't work" because it indirectly means that you are not efficient in choosing the right martial arts.
Bro this guy is obviously referring to the actual schools who teach the tangible curriculum they train people in not the theoretical and philosophical aspects of the style
Phoenix J there is JKD the concept and JKD the school.
@@eclipsewrecker The very concept of JKD is to absord the best techniques from various martial arts from an individuals perspective and to combine them into one. So JKD is not a style.
Phoenix J “style?” Wrong guy.
I’ve read and understand the book and philosophy..........but it’s been systemized and ‘trade marked.’ So it doesn’t matter what it was intended to be or what you want it to be (pure) it is what it is, and it is a philosophy/concept and a school.
@@eclipsewrecker well, I believe it is important to differentiate between its intended purpose, and what it became. We can't judge Lee's philosophy based on later incorrect representations. What did Bruce believe about it being a style or form? He was clear:
"I have not invented a 'new style,' composite, modified or otherwise that is set within distinct form as apart from 'this' method or 'that' method. On the contrary, I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns, or molds. Remember that Jeet Kune Do is merely a name used, a mirror in which to see 'ourselves'. . . Jeet Kune Do is not an organized institution that one can be a member of.'"
In the end I think we all have to be honest and say Bruce Lee died too young. He just hadn't seen everything yet. Still shouldn't take away from his influence and genius for analysis of arts. Dan Inosanto gravitated to what he liked and was never a type A personality who wanted to prove what worked. However from what I've heard he is one of the most incredibly generous and knowledgeable men in the Martial Arts world.
Jeet Kune Do Concepts/Filipino Martial Arts was my Base then I moved on to Mma, The Weapons Training in Kali combined with the Combat Arts Experience helped me in Real Street Situations.
You are a warrior and interested in functional MAs. I, too, was interested in MAs from a young age. I trained under Bruce and Jimmy from 1965 to 1968 but found out fighting bigger guys on the street that I had a long way to go. Bruce was a genius who used experimentation and observation to better his own development. I followed Bruce by leaving JKD and seeking more active sparring than we did in JKD at that time. Chinese leutei training provided that. Combat boxing and wrestling including the Asian variants is the way to go for unarmed self defense. Most people can't really train that way because of the necessary fitness and willingness to sustain injuries required. More traditional MAs minus the sparring and injuries gives the rest something to aspire to and work with. Both are good even if only the one is for combat.
I agree, It's apples and oranges, Pure martial arts is for the art of it and can help if you happen to get into a fight. Pure fighting is what ever works and MA can play a big part in that. We've been trained to think that martial artists are fighters. I think the movies play a roll in that also. Many martial artists like to train and belong to a organization like being in a club. I've heard a few stories where guys get a black belt and go out and get in a street fight and get their butt handed to them. I trained in JKD for years in the early 80's under Abel Sandoval, (He trained under Steven Johnson who trained with Bruce Lee), I later got into full contact kickboxing and it was a whole different ball game. The JKD kicking helped me in the ring. I fought at the Jet Center in Benny the Jet's gym. Bruce Lee did a lot of boxing punches. Bruce was one of the original MMA concepts people. We know now he was decades ahead of his time.
It's really tiring that people still say that Jeet Kune Do is a style. It is YOUR honest expression of martial arts not a style. Bruce would shake his head if he saw us.
Jeet Kune Do was designed to be MMA, where you use all the tools. The problem is what they did with JKD, where they try to sell their original vision or concepts more than simply teaching people. JKD is MIXED MARTIAL ARTS, Bruce Lee made that very clear from the start.
Mixed martial Arts has always been around since Karate. That is what Karate was originally, before people started separating it.
Yes
Yes original Karate included throws chokes joint manipulation
The Most Important technique of JKD is to Adapt, JKD had the elements of all different types or styles of Martial arts, if you saw bruce Lee applying it in movies he is NOT Consistently in FORM He ADAPTED the opponents Styles... And That's JEET KUNE DO, The Art of FIGHTING, NOT POINTS!
@@stanclark3992 cause they were copy🤷♂️ bruce was the first to do
It's actually great to couple JKD with grappling arts like BJJ or Sambo to make it more well-rounded. Although not the same as street fighting, MMA has allowed martial artists to evolve in awareness to broaden their skills.
*I have trained in a few martial arts over the years; I started with kickboxing and JKD but, eventually joined a MMA gym. At the MMA gym, I trained in boxing for MMA, Muay Thai, BBJ, grappling/clinching and wrestling. After the MMA gym, I trained with a boxing coach who also trans Muay Thai and then I trained at a Krav Maga gym; this gym was a mixture of boxing, kickboxing, BBJ, grappling/clinching, and different knives and stick training - what I liked about this Krav Maga gym is the breakdown of technique that does not use fine motor skills. I can agree with Darren Willis that all one needs for 99% of self-defense scenarios is boxing and some wrestling but, also standing grappling clinch skills. I am also a big supporter of really focusing on your own body mechanics and adapting technique, skills, etc. to your body movement, your limitations, etc. Once you are super aware of your body mechanics you can adapt a lot of useful skills to defense yourself.*
I trained under the IJKD Chinatown Ted Wong lineage, Mark Stuart and my instructor was Drew. Some say Ted Wong got the best late stages of JKD since he was Bruce Lee's longest private student and sparring partner. We trained outside in Alpine Park, LA Chinatown, no gym, just cement, no head gear just mouth piece, gloves, and optional shinguards. Sparring and focus mitt techniques were of up most importance. We'd hit each other as hard we got hit without going over board, enough to get the wind knocked out of you, but no ko's and with sportsmanship conduct. But we never trained grappling just takedown deffence. I later took a few months of MMA and learnd some basics. It's been many years since Chinatown now just barely practice in my back yard, got to jump back on it! Much respect for this interview and sharing your experience.👊💣💥
I started in Okinawan karate, then did "mma" at mcdojo (I had no clue at the time). Then realised I needed to study each art separately. So I did muay Thai and traditional Japanese jiu-jitsu. I moved through 4 different muay Thai clubs before finding a decent one and even then it's flawed because it came out if the old full contact karate club days from the 80's (as most western muay Thai clubs do) then trained with an actual Thai for a year and picked up judo and now doing boxing. The secret is to simplify. Boxing is so simple yet better than anything I have ever done and same with judo. If I had access to wrestling I would do that over judo. Keep it simple. If it looks like a technique that belongs in an action movie, than that's where it only belongs.
I remember the first time I took the time to actually read the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and thought to myself “ there is nothing in this book that Jeet Kune Do instructors are actually teaching .” It’s Bruce breaking down boxing techniques and footwork mostly with an brief mention of learning grappling techniques . Jeet Kune Do schools are a joke and so are the instructors .
David, interesting you are saying this because I took the notes of The Tao of JKD, separate from what my instructor stated he was doing. I had to fill in my holes in knowledge with the fighting methods books and the Tao. Plus research into muay thai and greco-roman. martial arts today are losing its lustre. We must go inside.
Not all, but some.
@@navykennedy1 Well sure -isn’t t that true of most if not (ALL) styles and systems?? I’ll even wager that a few crappy BJJ instructors are out there too! Blasphemy I know because they can do no wrong but yes. 😎
I got to my high brown belt in taekwondo before I stopped. It was fun with my daughter in the beginning, but eventually just was an impractical waste if my time. They also have false perception of how an actual fight takes place. I stayed long enough to learn every technique (kicks mostly) before I called it quits. I'm satisfied with that, but it wasn't worth the memorization of impractical forms while I still train in BJJ.
that's the art in martial arts that some people like. all that bowing and forms. I did too. but I didn't have an inflated idea of what I could do.
@@robertsmith6068 yes exactly, I actually intended to find it's intention, but I started to lose inspiration.
You guys calling this man a "hater" or ignoramus, do you have any idea who this man is ?
One of my instructors for JKD concepts with certified under Paul Vunak himself,But Taught us a modified system based on his fighting experience as a full contact Kung Fu fighter. My sifu also drilled us in western boxing. His favorite saying was“ boxing is the truth“ and he was right. You can posture all you want about how good you are how many flow drills you know etc. etc. but when the bell rings and you get hit with a shot by a guy throwing bombs at youThat’s when you know what works and that’s when your martial arts become” very conservative” my instructor also never gave names to any of the drills from JKD.
The irony here is that Matt Thornton followed one of Bruce Lee's JKD principles of "Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless" by rejecting JKD. A logical conundrum and I'm sure Bruce Lee would have appreciated.
Many years ago, at the height of the squabbling within the JKD community as to who was the real heir apparent, one of the mainstream martial arts magazines (it could have been Black Belt Magazine) wrote a provocative editorial of the problems with Jeet Kune Do both as a blue print, and especially those who sought out to teach it -- both legitimate and those exploiting Bruce Lee's popularity.
The article prefaced by saying that Bruce Lee left more paradox than paradigm in his writings of Jeet Kune Do. That it was often wrought with open ended Daoism that was open to interpretation.
Finally, the article summed up by saying if Jeet Kune Do, as defined by the founder as an individual phiosophical experience and not a style with fixed techniques, then how could so many people open up JKD schools and claim to teach something that the founder said cannot be taught?
Just opening Mac Dojo’s using JKDs name to bypass for profit!
@@rubenluna4073 there's a JKD here in Virginia, check out the website, its actually quite funnty
@@pashon4percushon are you talking bout the one in Woodbridge 😬?
@@BrandonTLuong no it claimed to be in VB but that website has vanished. There's a website claiming Chesapeake, and it claims to teach JKD 'online', but its different than the one i saw last time.
@@pashon4percushon Theres one in Woodbridge claiming to teach an abundant array of the hottest martial arts including JKD and few small ones like the Filipino one. It’s funny because they center majority of their info around one guy like it was supposed to have gravitas.
Why do u think Bruce walked away from jkd. He was into growth and evolution but also was a businessman. I trained with someone who was a student of the intosanto school when I found him Nd learned about jkd in liie 2002 I thought I discovered a ancient artifact that was secret and that it was the best martial art then I would try using the trapping and stuff and never able to pull it off in semi real, sparing with people who knew nothing about it and it would never work and I would be using basically wrestling and kick boxing. It was heart breaking to me when I discovered that I wasted so much time and money and energy on something that I could have been probably better off joining the ymca take a few boxing and wrestling classes. But its part of the evolution of everything. Thanks
How long did you train in the trapping/wing chun? Cause it takes years to be able to develop the skill in trapping in order to make it work.
this dude: tries trapping for like 5 minutes
also this dude: jeet kune do is crap
dumbass.. any martial art is good if you can pull it off properly. All these people make big deals about the techniques, but you need to stay true to your martial art. Cuz if you do, you will become a master at it who can actually take other people on. Smh.
So this guy just said that boxers at a pro/am boxing gym would not know what to do or have an answere for someone throwing a punch at them did i hear this correct really
No you did not.
if you are trained at silat, especially pencak silat, at first of course you will have your legs cross and sit on the ground, this is just traditional way to focus the training just for the arms and hands, and your eyes up to limb destruction. it is not intended for combat for it is just a form of training. the "silly kick" in pencak silat is just for counter, the original pencak silat does not have high kick. but if you learn silat from sumatera, center or east java, you will learn high kicks. i heard that bruce lee once had been defeated by pencak silat master in the US, the style was Sabeni, Sabeni is mostly counter attack and close quarter. you can check that. thanks
Maybe it was already mentioned here, but for people who are interested: Matt mentions some Paul at 6:20 here in the clip. His family name is hard to understand, but if someone is interested, his name is Paul de Thouars.
You can find clips of him here on YT.
Here are some of my recollections of training in “JKD Concepts” classes, and these are a far cry from anything Bruce would have approved of. (1) Spending a lot of time in partner exercises that involved banging each other’s kali sticks into one another in predictable patterns. (2) Drills that nurtured cockiness. For example, there were drills that were glorified one step sparring that dealt with, say, knife disarms, without ever respecting how the knife is a deadly weapon. (3) The particular school I was at had an ironic emphasis on student rankings instead of student competence. (4) The head instructor at the school I was at made too big of a deal of the fact that he managed to get a picture of himself with Dan Inosanto at a workshop.
Get the blackbelt mag from 91 or 92, when Dan said Bruce told him not to lean towards Filipino arts because he was Filipino. Bruce stated hack away the unessentials until the truth was revealed.
Many people who “leave” JKD never really embraced or understood it properly in the first place.
There is no Best system of combat. There is no Best fighter. There is only competition and warfare. As soon as you know what you're practicing for you will be on the road to understanding.
All martial training is a journey. The path is long and filled with many trials and testing. Everyone who walks the path discovers themselves. One may say that his system is superior, but in reality, it is not the system that is superior but the man himself. Each person must find what works for them alone.
i actually can relate to a lot of what he is saying. I trained jkd for about a year and never really felt stronger than i joined an mma gym and just in a month learned more usefull stuff and felt way stronger than before
RIP Sifu Larry Hartsell.
Had to listen before responding. I do agree, I never was into Silat, I did it because my teacher had incorporated it into jeet kune do. I never found it to be a style I was into. I was already comfortable with boxing, wing chun, Muay Thai and sticks.
It’s a bit off topic, but the same thing existed in the music world around the same time. I became disillusioned in a lot of music instruction in the 80/90s for similar reasons. The internet has been a mixed bag for music, but one good thing it did was help expose the instructional hustlers to the sunlight. Which is why I find the push for online speech censorship so confusing and wrong, but that’s another story.
The sway of an “authority” is a powerful thing. No matter how much a person seems to know it’s always a good idea to hold respect and open-mindedness to learning in balance with quiet skepticism. I’ve found that it’s often the case that when somebody arrogantly says “I know everything there is to know” about a subject right away, that’s a big red flag.
I been an mma student for 10 years
Ever since I was 14
Now I'm 24
The only styles if I can call them styles that I relied in the ring and in actual street fights were
Boxing
Wrestling
Judo
And muay thai
The last place you want to be is in the floor
Maybe if you know your way in the floor in the ring might win you the fight
But in the street, you might lose your life
Be practical and learn the useful things
Not the theories and delusions in mc dojos
Where did you get the awesome Thomas Sowell shirt though?
and now i feel BJJ is going down that route of olympic judo and TKD , its getting too focused on competition , so all the techniques are focused on competition, points, advantages, and how to work the ruleset.
some schools are about celebrity endorsements, giving out belts to actors and what not.
it lost the root, which is about self defence .
I believe that what most arouses interest in entering the world of martial arts is not the effective ability to fight, but the glamor of a master, of legend. Most would associate with pseudo experts for the purpose of glory! This is Thornton! Did he go to JJ for his combat efficiency? JJ is limited in a real situation, where there is the possibility of multiple opponents, etc. The problem is in the size of the ego!
Is that a Thomas Sowell shirt? I guess the video deserves a like just for that. But in all seriousness, very fascinating video. I wonder what his opinion is on the current state of JKD under Dan Inosanto, with the incorporation of shoot-wrestling via Yori Nakamura and BJJ via the Machado family, as well as Erik Paulson's CSW program, which you could argue was an outgrowth of that.
Thanks to Matt Thornton for his honesty. Unfortunately, the biggest fallacy of every single martial arts are its practitioners. Because sooner or later, politics and cliquishness take hold and instructors start to see themselves as the emperors of their own little kingdoms. And despite what every martial artist thinks, nobody is immune to this. Stick around long enough and you will be affected. The hardest thing to do sometimes is to just simply walk away and chart your own journey as Matt has done. That's fine. As is true in all other aspects of life, not all relationships are meant to be permanent. Some must naturally end when there is no longer a benefit to them. Every martial artist should do what's right for them in the end.
People need to realize that forms were never intended to use for fighting. They ate used to mimic fighting. This was done to ensure that you would understand the concept of blocking, punching and kicking. Forms are very underestimated because of a lot of misconceptions around them. But they help reinforce what you learn as you fight. Never mistake what forms are intended for. If you use them to fight you will lose.
In order to
learn how to deal with real street based violence you require highly specialised training. All martial arts dojos are businesses and clubs at the end of the day: you can get fit; make friends; enter competitions and learn a variety of techniques, some of which may be transferable to real life situations with huge caveats.
There is no 'this is better than that' but there are good instructors who are honest about their material and some who are less so.
Just loved the Sowell shirt
Got to agree with Matt. Only disagreement if I had one is that Silat and to a large extent FMA taught we multiple opponent awareness through their positioning and footwork.
I grew up in the JKD/FMA world of Chicago. I also was still young & partied and worked as a bouncer (my martial arts application lab) in many nightclubs in Chicago.
Got to see and hear about JKD/FMA senior students and instructors applying their "skills" in bar fights and getting their ass handed to them.
What I learned from senior practitioners of JKD/FMA involved in real life self-defense/street fight situations was that they'd immediately forget what they preached and glorified, JKD/FMA, in a real street fight situation and immediately revert to what Thai boxing skills they knew or even taught in a street fight along with scrumming with their opponents.
Even with their Thai Boxing "skills" they'd still get their ass handed to them.
Real Self-Defense training was not taught in the JKD/FMA world at that time in Chicago and was even frowned upon. When I told my group/instructor I wanted to train, spar in Boxing, and Thai Boxing with real fighters to apply JKD/FMA concepts in real time, in more realistic situations, I was looked down on and considered a heretic of JKD/FMA.
The groups in Cali, especially Guro Dan's group and the late Sifu Bustillo's group emphasized sparring, ring work, actual real world fighting situations & applications. They didn't and don't have much tolerance for conceptionlist/theoretical JKD/FMA guys and in particular, instructors. Another guy that is very good about applying and teaching real street fighting application JKD/FMA/Silat is Burt Richardson.
And the gaggling gossiping part of Matt's interview is so true. After class we go to a bar nearby to socialize and the JKD/FMA group would gossip bout this boxer, that Thai Boxer, this other non-JKD/FMA practitioner, other Martial Art Methods, self-defense instructor, and how they just didn't "get it/have it".
I'd sit there and in the back of my mind think these are some gossiping little bitches. Those "other" self-defense guys/gals, fighters, had the guts to put it on the line in the ring/spar, and would fuck these little gossipers up in a heartbeat in the ring or real life.
I still practice Silat as I did during my JKD/FMA training days and it's been invaluable to me when I've gotten into street fights against multiple opponents (I've maybe fought once in a 1 on 1 situation since I was 13 yrs of age) throughout the years.
you had me at the shirt !!!!!
Great T Shirt! Superfoot Bill Wallace spills the beans on BJJ and how it grew in MMA.
The best style is the one you know and even that can't guarantee you'll win in all situations. No moves are 100% applicable 100% of the times in 100% identical form but all are 100% applicable, 100% of times in some form regardless if you'll do it intentionally or as a reflex . As long as you understand and accept the above you should be confident that any style you'd pursue will only make you better. Remember that there is a reason for which those looking for the "most dangerous" or "most xyz" fight style end up with a salad of information. To be a good fighter you need not one not two or ten styles but a combination of styles that fit your physique, mentality and character. Adapt and overcome!
Powerful Thomas Sowell!
That stick fighting in JKD put me off learning it 20 years ago.
Sometimes the truth hurts. I trained in kuk sool for many years under one of the top guys. Honestly was wasted time.
Johnnythepillpopper but was your wife happy?
Edit: oops I think I mispronounced your word.
Paul Vunak and Larry Hartsell are the best JKD Instructors. Larry died young but Vunak been doing BJJ since before ufc with Royce and Rickson and he just got his Black Belt in submission Grappling. We also do a lot of weapons sparring under Vunak and Muay Thai Clinch.
I remember your "functional JKD" tapes from Black Belt Magazine.
Kempo karate has evolved to 5.0 and includes ground techniques taken from BJJ so I don't see why JKD can't evolve.
Did you know that the original okinawa karate already used grappling and ground tech.
@@Dwinna1 You know I heard about that. That karate actually used to be a well-rounded art!
@@MentalDeviant thats true.
It used to be an complete art.
Armed, unarmed combat and grappling
Its funny, I had the reverse realization. I had kind of a blended martial arts background and competed in boxing muay thai and mma. The more full contact experience I had, the more value I found in traditional martial arts. I have a blackbelt in bjj, and I love bjj as well. But it is very flawed as well. I'm currently training in jun fan and jkd and my take on it is that people just don't Spar hard. That's the only missing piece actually. Can I hit an eye jab and groin kick under pressure, yes. Can I trap while sparring, yes. But I can also hit a single leg off a 1 2 combo and hit a berimbolo from the double under pass and transition to a arm triangle for the finish.
I love these people who hate on jkd or other arts and look at jiu-jitsu as the holy grail of martial arts. All jiu-jitsu was, was the missing piece to the puzzle, but any grappling based art would have done that just the same.
Great insight! I heard exactly the same arguments when I transferred to Muay Thai from TKD, and from sport Eskrima to traditional. There was way too much condescension toward the less spar-heavy arts, when the real question should be, "can you make it work in a live situation?" (secondarily, "what is the live situation you are preparing for?")
That said, I think you do BJJ a disservice by saying any grappling based art could have replaced its spot in the now-evident skills complex required in unarmed fighting. The old UFCs *did* have wrestlers and Judoka, even Sambo, IIRC. None of them beat BJJ despite BJJ players having a much smaller talent pool and therefore a less-developed art.
By the time we could expect a pure BJJ guy to get easily smashed in MMA, it was because everybody had seen BJJ and learned to counter it, or they trained BJJ themselves. BJJ WAS the holy grail.
@@subsonic9854 except everyone in the ufc was picked that Royce could beat them. Remember that all the UFC was, an infomercial to sell BJJ. I respect jiu-jitsu but see its limitations as well. Its very flawed with its lack of understanding the take down game and underestimating striking. Again, bjj filled a gap, a huge gap yes. But even the gracies knew that their time was close. They sold the UFC before the inevitable loss of Royce. The true power of jiu-jitsu had absolutely nothing to do with their technique but to do with they had decades of training to compete within the true NHB environment while everyone else competed in very controlled environments. People were figuring out how to compete in those same environments and jiu-jitsu was losing its mystique.
@@subsonic9854 one other thought. If 1 single good boxer had entered and trained wrestling for a year or 2. Or had someone Like Jimmy Pedro, high level judo, and collegiate wrestling champion as well. He won his first Olympic medal in 1996, meaning that 1993 he was competing internationally. I think he would have smashed Royce in less then 60 seconds and never broke a sweat.
@@subsonic9854 sakurabas Catch wrestling seemed to work well against the gracies at the time.
@@doubleb222able Sorry for the late reply. I had work and honestly had to think hard for this. It's an old argument after all. I used to despise the Gracies, but I feel like they're being disrespected a lot these days, and the suggestion that any grappler could've done what they did contradicts our lived experience. No grappler ever accomplished what they did with UFC / NHB, nor did other grapplers develop their Newaza to such a degree. To this day, old-school BJJ by itself remains a very good art for 1-on-1 fighting which doesn't injure or require superlative strength or timing. Anyway:
The fighters were picked such that Royce could beat them, but my point is that there were grapplers as well, which means that BJJ was superior grappling. Shamrock was a legit wrestler and breathed steroids while Severn was a highly decorated wrestler and a beast, yet both lost to Royce, even when they knew he was trying to submit them. This, even though Royce was a midget and wasn't even that good within his own family.
Judo guys wouldn't have handled Shamrock or Severn as well (and successful UFC Judoka who don't train BJJ remain rare), while the ground game, even among those Kosen guys, was and is not nearly as developed as BJJ's.
If BJJ guys had decades to compete in NHB, that's their good fortune, but it's no more an unfair advantage than Judo or wrestling's advantage of having global talent pools while BJJ was limited to Brazil, and even then, only very exclusive groups. I will also say that the Gracies' shunning of leg locks was short-sighted. Yet how many times were BJJ guys caught in leg locks before the modern era anyway?
They didn't underestimate striking because they were able to beat strikers until strikers adapted after learning BJJ or developing counters to it. As for the takedown game, they were weak in that area, but they were evolving from crosstraining, albeit slowly. That said, they didn't need the explosive TD's we see today. Clutch + trip works just fine and is closer to a reality fighting situation, in which the clinch is often incidental.
It always weirds me out that Jeet Kune Do has schools. The very concept goes against the basic principle of the Art. The whole point was to get away from rigid styles and patterns of fighting. So how do you teach a style that is explicitly meant to not be a style? If you say "this is Jeet Kune Do. These are the moves, these are the stances. You attack like this, you counter like this" then you're no longer teaching Jeet Kune Do because that is the opposite of what it is.
And even if you DO open a school for it, who are you going to teach? Newbies probably aren't going to be able to grasp it very well since in order to 'take what works and discard what doesn't' you'd need to actually, y'know, KNOW THE MARTIAL ART IN QUESTION to determine what does and doesn't work. A student would have to have already studied multiple martial arts in order to actually be able to do this one effectively at which point they're probably ALREADY mixing them together in a way that works for them so what is there for you to teach? They're already doing it on their own.
A very important conversation. I have to agree - the cult like following of Guro Dan is scary. Any time I train with him, it's amazing to see the people there. I love Guro and what he's done for the martial arts world, but I, too, have my disillusionment with the JKD clan.
Mat makes some great points and you as well. Sadly Mats SBG teaches lies and pushes the blind faith forced indoctrination religion of racist savages program called EVOLUTION. Under the umbrella of evolving martial arts. He shuns religion in one breath and pushes religion in another.
They definitely bring great principles and concepts and aliveness drilling and great technology to combat sport/Martial training though. I always give credit where its due. From day one.
That said it's a cult of counter culture with the irony that Mat literally came up shunning religion and cults of martial arts and yet evolves in pushing religion as the foundation behind his cult as well. Hungry hungry hippocrit to the bone!!!
@@carpejkdiem Are you saying Evolution is a religion?
@@carpejkdiem very well said. I had these kind of issues with Sifu Andrew Kimura(Sigung Taky Kimura's son) there was always this feeling of do what Andy says...yet I clearly recall Bruce Closing all his schools for reasons just like the shit we all see being perpetuated in JKD today. Bruce said that it was always about growing and knowing yourself. Martial art/Knowing himself was his journey and IMO this is what he wanted us all to do.
@@carpejkdiem Andrew Kimura has opened the Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute of Seattle Washington back up...hes sharing a building with Southwest Wushu in Chinatown/International District of Seattle Washington...its on 8th street, up the street from Ho Ho's restaurant. Ho Ho's was originally where Bruce opened his first school in Seattle in the basement of the (formerly known as) *Kimura Family Grocery* Taky and his family opened the store and Bruce Lee taught Jun Fan Gung Fu after hours.
@@metrolinamartialarts Most definitely!
Out of the 6 different kinds of evolution only one is proven by the SCIENTIFIC METHOD and there's no change from one kind to another kind.
Mat pushes the blind faith forced indoctrination religion of racist savages (polytheist occultists who believe we were apes and are evolving into lil g) called EVOLUTION, and that version is purely from gnosticism polytheism religious texts.
Matt pushes the one version the masses were forced indoctrinated into believing through the public school indoctrination system to us as children, then pushed further through the occult Luciferian religion of SCIENTISM (science so called) on the propaganda tell a vision mind programming machine when we got home. 100% a religion, yes his version pushed is a blind faith religion.
I know another guy that ran into the same thing about JKD over the years that trained with a lot of the same guys and also was Ted Wongs personal student. He is a fighter but one not after the ring necessarily but for the street in which JKD was built for anyway. If it wasn’t built for the street then why is all the main targets soft targets. Check out Jason Korol. He is a true seeker of truth and the best fighter I’ve ever met.
I would also definitely put Paul Vunak and Steve Grody on that list. 😎
The next one could be "why I chose mc Donald's" :-D
That "WTF are you talking about" was sincere. I am laughing so hard.
I started off with ju-jitsu before it became commercialized, I even have as a souvenir from going one on one with Rickson Gracie a spiral fracture to my right-ankle, he countered me and than a loud pop. I was convinced, I was all that until a knowledgeable Kali expert, with theater experience, tested me against his knife skills, he brought it to me and ran the sheathed blade against my throat, then he unsheathed his blade and pressed the tip into my ribs. I became enlightened and switched to Kali. In addition, I was big on Tang Soo dodo which he begged me to through a real punch and he had several jello shots, I figured he was drunk and cracked him in the eye, oh shit, I learned so much from my teacher he gave me the beatdown of my life. But his perspective on Kali changed me, I learned you don't hear the knife when it plunges into the body and when it's unsheathed. Because of the blade mentality by that it heightened my awareness that I might be facing a blade, sure enough that thinking got me out of a couple blade threats in Baltimore or Bodymore Murderland. It all boiled down to weapon body mechanics, the way people move when carrying and the strong side tell-tale signs. The fight came and I engaged it with my footwork l cut off his angle of attack, like in boxing that save me. I'm a natural south-paw, attacker south-paw I checked him at the door, he couldn't close on me and the fight was over. We literally walked away.
Ju-jitsu the sport they practice today has no knife response. I'm principle: learn the blade, it's everywhere.
What about Paul Vunak jkd?
I always thought JKD was supposed to be a continually evolving art and borrowing stuff from different arts to form one whole skillset.
It's MMA in one word. But MMA dudes won't ever agree because it has a Chinese name 🤣🤣
No. “Add what is uniquely your own” is not an accumulation of styles. It’s apply the simple principles from your own unique body mechanics .
We don’t “uniquely own” BJJ , MMA etc.
The goal was always less and less, simpler and simpler.
But that doesn’t sell gym memberships...
@@robertvondarth1730 Fair enough, hard to teach principles in a structured way as opposed to techniques I guess.
Interesting that from that generation a bunch of them branched off to try and make what they teach “functional” Burton still teaches kali and silat and I think Stephen Plinck does too
i just took the philosophy of jkd and applied it to my training of other martial arts. i trained jkd for about a year but even then there was some stuff that wasn't practical to me which I discarded. anybody treating it like some kind of traditional martial art to be followed entirely is probably short changing themselves.
True
JKD is more of a philosophy than anything. Glad you did what you did.
This Weekend I took a Zoom Weapon Use and Defense Seminar taught by Sigung Paul Vunak and one of his Senior Instructors Pedro Rodriguez. I haven't been able to teach for a long while. Health Issues. I had those and other health issues resolved and have lost 60 lbs. I teach a combination of a few different Filipino Martial Arts and am excited to return to teaching after this Wuhan Mess clears up. Until then, I study at a Boxing Gym and am looking for someone to teach me some Groundfighting. Thank you for your insight.
all true masters know that mastery cannot be learned by only following masters.
Always a nice listen ... and yet again, we come to the fork in the road - compliant 'role playing' to the left - and non-compliant problem-givers, to the right.
THAT THOMAS SOWELL SHIRT
Never heard of her
Matt reads Thomas Sowell, yet lives in Portland.
'TS' is a 'TS'... 'FTM'..
I just looked him up in wikipedia and in the politics section it says he endorsed Ted Cruz in 2016. Duhfuq?
@@H4I2I2EE Whats wrong with Cruz?
@@H4I2I2EE Thomas Sowell is MUCH more intelligent than any politician or terrorist (also known as "protester") in Portland.
@@arbogast4950 Do you follow politics at all?
Fascinating. I'm fairly good at Wing Chun and boxing. I've learned how they complement each other. So many people think Wing Chun can be used as distance fighting and it's just laughable. And almost every Wing Chun practitioner that I've met and didn't personally trained with is absolutely unpractical
The way I see it that a lot of people misinterpret Jeet Kune Do as "style". It's not. It's a concept. Bruce Lee's "style" if you want to call it as such is Jun Fan Gung Fu. Two different things in my view. Lot of people who get into JKD think they end up being fighting exactly like Bruce did. Big misconception.
Bro, lol, the squatting positions...and arms crossed. ABD. Sorry you missed the memo. I’d be more than happy to come to your group in Portland and demonstrate any of this....It isn’t what you’ve seen.
So, what you missed, was the real Bukti System....and honestly so did Plinck. Pendekar only had a handful of students stay with it to go far enough to be able to use the system. Here is Pendekar’s Nephew, and another senior student, Guru Tim Anderson. If you haven’t seen Silat like this, you haven’t seen the real thing. ruclips.net/video/NYuK9YJZVII/видео.html
What people fail to realize is that Jeet Kune Do is about "having no way as way." If you understand this, you're on your way; otherwise, you are just still looking at the finger and never seeing the moon (that the finger's pointing to).
I really appreciate your honesty. There is nothing new under the sun. It is not the art that makes the man, but the man that makes the art. Twenty four different flavors, and all of them are vanilla. P.T. Barnum said theres a sucker born every minute. Thanks.
Imo, I think it comes down to sparring, sparring, and sparring.
Its the person that makes the system effective, it is the person that makes the system bad also.
Not true when there are so many styles out there that will literally get you killed in a fight.
@Junder R Why would an article matter?
I've worked with amazing people who worked harder and were smart than me that I could easily beat because they trained in a deficient style. As expected, when they switched to an effective style they flourished.
There are fundamental principles that are universal to combat (and tons of leeway in how to use them). If your style goes against these principles it's just practiced suicide.
Other marital arts practitioners were already "absorb(ing) what is useful, discard(ing) what is useless." Boxers and kickboxers and wrestlers were already doing this within their rulesets. So were practitioners of BJJ and Judo, as well as various competitive sword-fighting arts. Here's the thing though... You can't cherry-pick techniques and expect it to work well. Many techniques work best when combined with other techniques, whether because of setup, chaining/combos, or practical matters of training. And when you start collecting these sets of techniques, you will end up with a style. Besides, new students and casual students need to be told what they should learn. They won't have the knowledge to go reinventing the wheel for themselves. It's far better to learn an effective but sub-optimal system from someone else, than to waste a bunch of time trying to figure out your own ineffective collection of techniques.
Interesting interview. I think the biggest issue with JKD is that the "curriculum" stopped when Lee passed away. He really wasn't at it long enough to really refine it for the mainstream if you think about it. It worked for him of course, he put it together. He taught a fair number of people, but only a very few took it on with the purpose of teaching it themselves. The result is, 50 years on, an incoherent and misunderstood style. Not to say that the immediate disciples of Lee were poor teachers. But without the founder to keep it in line, like all other martial arts like Karate, Kung Fu and TKD, they have changed over the years. I think Lee's philosophy lives on in his writings, but the physical part of JKD today bares little resemblance to Lee's vision. When I see martial arts schools advertise that they do "Jiu Jitsu, Judo and Jeet Kun Do" I have to ask what JKD means in that school and it's probably not a place I want to learn JKD. To me, my opinion, JKD is legend now, and not particularly practical. It's one of, if not the greatest, system ever put together for its time. But like all other martial arts, not all teachers and historians agree about how it should be taught, so we have several different branches of Karate, Kung Fu, etc...Teachers are trying not to let that happen with JKD and it's admirable, but when each school teaches it differently...it really should be a different genre of JKD. Like what a school would teach would be Wing Chun with a base of JKD knowledge. But you're really learning Wing Chun with a JKD variation. Which may be ok with Lee, not for me to say...anyway...if you go to a JKD school today, you will not be a Bruce Lee at the end of it all. It's just a different animal now.