Currency & Proficiency In A PA28 | Why An FBO Kicked Us Out...
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2023
- It's no secret that my favourite general aviation aircraft is the mighty PA28. Unfortunately, the one that featured on my channel the most has been out of action for a very long time and in all honesty, I'm not sure if or when we will see it again. As if that wasn't enough of a blow, the FBO where that aircraft and the other rental aircraft that I fly were parked, kicked out the rental company at the beginning of this year. I explain my thoughts about that in the video.
But all is not lost, because on the other side of the airport is this little PA28-140. It's great to welcome myself back to the sky in an aircraft with the wings in the correct position!
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Развлечения
Great video! At 16:11 the mastery displayed on landing took its narration to the next level. “Fought to touchdown the upwind wheel first…” *upwind wheel touches down perfectly visibly*.. and that thin a$$ nosewheel bang on the centerline, sheeesh! Keep up the great work Lew.
Yes to the Intercepting and Tracking an ILS or GPS RNAV approach.
BTW, the big boy corporate FBO’s are slowing killing the small GA traffic. Up here at LZU, we had some small locally based FBO’s. Now Sheltair has come in. So far no changes but fuel prices are already up as they committed to the county a bunch of improvements. Hopefully no big changes but not ho,ding my breath. Great video as always Lewis!
SDL (which, I know, biiiig surprise) is kicking out the bugsmashers as well in favor of 135 ops.
Another great video Lew, thanks! The FAA and big business have been out to kill GA since the 1980s. The cost of a new 172 or Piper is all you need to see to prove this fact. A new GA plane in the 60s cost roughly 2-3 times the average salary and now it is somewhere closer to 12-15 times. For the most part the only ones able to afford a new GA plane are flight schools and other business entities.
The cost of the planes themselves and the cost of doing business especially in larger cities (Orlando) has driven GA out as you have seen first hand. I live in a relatively popular fly in "community" in Florida and even here the old timers don't care or want to have any part in spreading the joy of aviation. Instead its a bunch of posturing and showing off their toys to anyone who will listen. My aviation "community" has pushed out anyone renting planes and has actively worked to shut down anyone trying to train in the "community".
GA is dying. With the increase in the cost of everything and with the attitude of the aviation community in general, it wont take long before the only people left flying GA will be the ones willing to pay a small fortune to get their commercial tickets.
For real. Seems like nobody wants to fly just for the sheer joy of flipping the bird at gravity, and non-aviators aren't even aware of GA ("Oh, you're a pilot? Cool, what airline do you fly for?" "I don't. It's just a fun hobby." "....wat.")
As for new airplane prices, north of $400K for a freaking 172? Gimme a break, there's absolutely nothing in that bird worth that kind of money.
While the FAA bureaucrats certainly haven't helped, the real problem was the influx of judges applying strict liability during the 70's. Which is an absolutely ignorant doctrine for many reasons, but the main impact on GA was insurance cost to the plane manufacturers. The per airframe manufacturers' liability-insurance cost went from $50 in the early 60s to $100k in the mid 80's and both Cessna and Piper completely halted single engine airframe production.($100k in 1980s dollars is like $400k now.)
Congress passed GARA in '94 as a bandaid but the underlying judicial issue still lingers.
A side issue for GA is the needless complication with the interplay of airport managment, federal subsidies (the attached strings) and ignorant/corrupt local government (bad zoning, poor road planing, property tax greed, and realestate developer kickbacks)
Edit to add: Strict liability basically means it is on the manufacturer to anticipate and prevent missuse by the customers. Its why so many items on cars (and tractors and such) are made difficult to work on without special single purpose tools that are only sold to dealers. In essence strict liability doesn't treat everyone equal under the law, it assumes business owners are more competent and customers are basically overgrown children to be protected from themselves. (This is of course setting aside the obvious group of people that have actually been found legally incompetent or mentally underdeveloped. ) It seems to have a lot of socialist vibe, being quite ignorant of economics, intent on everyone conforming to some arbitrary mold, and out to punish businesses.
@@mytech6779 it always cracks me up when people buy homes at the end of a runway and then lose their minds when airplanes make noise. Yes, more government and more regulation has really put a damper on the American experience in general, let alone aviation.
Always a fun time. Enjoyed the video thanks Lew
Great to hear!
Starting at Tampa Bay Aviation soon, and definitely hoping to meet you one day! I live about 10 minutes from KTPA, so I’ll strike luck if I get that as my base in a few years, I love all of your videos!
THANK YOU - For showing the POH about the carb heat. I've been training in my own PA28-140 and I've had to show a couple CFIs the POH to prove "no carb heat".
No problem haha I get a lot of comments about it when I fly PA28’s in videos. It’s amazing what a simple flick through the POH will tell you 🙌🏻
I’m working on my ppl currently. Did 8 touch and go’s today and they definitely weren’t as smooth as yours. I got a little ways to go before I’m a even remotely proficient in them, but watching your landings give me motivation. It’s a Cessna 172 so yeah the thing just floats…lol. Thank you for all the great videos! Fly safe!
Thanks! Glad you enjoy my videos! I constantly battle for proficiency so don’t worry that you’re not quite there yet. You’re on the right path, even if you’re flying the wrong plane 😉
@@LewDixAviationLOL. As long as I walk out of the plane, it's the right plane...lol...my discovery flight was in a Piper Warrior, but they couldn't get me in for months and the school I am currently training at has 3 Cessna's. I did really enjoy that Piper also!
You can use the right hand rule to demo clockwise is up trim in the older Pipers. Visual cross check still advised. Love your videos. Congratulations on your Captain check out on Silver!
As a instrument student pilot I love the explanations. 5 star videos Lew
The trim on the ceiling is mental.
Wow! I left my old FBO and transferred to the local Int'l airport partly due to a very similar attitude problem that I experienced... and I'm an owner, not a renter! (Incredibly, the tie down rate at my new FBO is actually cheaper too!)
My absolute favorite LewDix moments are those with ATC Murph on the radio. As soon as i noticed you were at Orlando executive, I was so hoping he would be on…. Maybe next time. Need more Murph moments so you can make a Murph compilation 😂
I need to get him back on the channel!
Nice video. I use to fly a PA28 and it's a very good plane 👍🏻 👍🏻
on repeat on landing I say Speed Height Center Nose...thanks for doing the videos you have a great mix of teaching/fun as a CFI
Thank you so much man and thank you for becoming a patron!
Thats been a big problem in the midwest as well, and schools have just started their own FBOs since the ones they rent from are making it so difficult so they can focus on Jets
Re: carb heat: Thank you!
I can't believe many times I've seen videos on RUclips with people in a Cherokee who put in carb heat on landing. And I constantly wonder: do they have a different poh than me? Or did they just do what they've done in Cessnas, that were originally equipped with a continental O-300 that is particularly bad with carb icing?
Heck even Cessna continues to recommend carb ice in landing despite moving to Lycoming engines that aren't nearly as susceptible to carb ice.
Anyway thank you for highlighting that part of the poh.
either way, unless you’re in mountainous terrain with high DA, the little rpm you get from carb heat on a go around is negligible atleast in the aircraft i fly in regards to go around safety, obviously no go around is the same and different factors come into it, but generally speaking, in florida, it doesn’t really matter
I suppose a lot of UK training makes you put carb heat in on landing due to the normally poor weather resulting in potential icing.
My flight school taught carb heat for the decent phase down to 300/500ft above ground
@@Acbaker23same I’ve been taught to keep it in until 300 feet then take it off
There is no down side to applying carb heat on finals. There is no loss of power on the go around, as carb air is selected 'cold' with the application of full power.
Every time that trim handle was touched, the only thing running through my mind was DISCO!
😂
8:57 we are seeing a similar issue Lew at Bristol here in the UK
Flew 172s for my private and instrument. Moved into the Seneca for my multi and commercial. I never wanted to get back into a Cessna ever again. Now that I'm working on my CFI, I have been forced back into the 172. 1500 hours cant come soon enough!
It’s such a drag. I instructed mostly in PA28’s until someone broke the one I used and had to move to Cessnas. It has sucked the fun out of flying. I’m not just saying that because of my bias, I just genuinely think they are not nice birds.
I thought it was just me. Did my PPL and IR in PA28s and SR20/22s - moved to C172s for CPL and CFI and have not been having nearly as much fun as I did in Cherokees and Cirrus!! I spice it up with some aerobatics in a Decathalon once in a while just to keep myself happy lol
Our local PA-28 checklists have carb-heat on for low RPM conditions *but* it's OFF as part of the final landing checklist, exactly for the power-on-go-around reason you describe.
if you look in the POH and the PHAK (FAA) you’ll find an interesting discussion about the differences between “float” carbs (like the cessna) and “pressure” carbs (like the piper). They work in different ways, so have different pros and cons.
I was under the impression pipers didn't require carb heat on final due to the location of the intake being pre heated by the engine. Cessnas pull air from the front of the Cowell.
@@mp-xt2rg The path of the intake air in a PA28 effectively heats it prior to the carb, which is one reason why the POH explicitly says, no carb heat on approach. The other reason given in the POH is that the risk of detonation on full throttle due to a super rich condition is far more likely to cause a an engine failure than carb ice. Carb ice is just very unlikely in a PA28
@@Chrisovideos that was my understanding. I've never flown one though.
I remember the PA-28 I had lessons in years ago now back in 2003 when I was 15 had that exact same wheel/lever/fidget toy style trim controls! It was a pain in the ass from what I remember as I mostly had lessons in C150s (the 172 and PAs were an extra 30 quid per hour and that was back in 03!). I'm guessing not all PAs have the silly ceiling trim then?!
I agree 100% with your opinion of this FBO and it's management. We had a Piper Comanche in their shade hangars until last spring when we found out the shade hangers were going to be replaced by corporate jet hangars. It left us in a tough situation and we've had to relocate the plane out of state while we sit on a waiting list for another airport. Our experience with the FBO and it's manager during our time there wasn't impressive in the least. They do not care about GA and it's clear they are only interested in corporate money. I grew up on that airport as my father was an aircraft mechanic there for over 20 years. It's sad to see GA being pushed out.
Quick tip on the trim handle. Point it towards your head. From that position, push it forward for down, pull back for up, just like the yoke. It becomes second nature after a while.
It’s good to hear someone else’s story with that FBO. I never got acknowledged once by the manager in my whole time flying there. It was quite impressive the pedestal that they put themselves on.
I love watching great pilots working on their proficiency and currency. It is the attitude all our GA folks should adopt. We all have to stay proficient.
I found a high wing that doesn't float like a boat. Feel free to hit me up if you ever want to fly a Shortwing Piper in SoCal. Its got all the things you hate. High wings, a trim crank on the ceiling, and airspeed indicated in MPH. You'll love it!!
Nice video Lewis, always important to maintain your standards. Does your airline flying apply towards GA currency and vice versa? Or do you need the approaches, holding, and tracking separately for 121 and 91?
Thanks! For the purposes of instrument currency, it counts because I’m flying the same category (airplane). For the purpose of passenger currency my airline landings do not count for single engine passenger currency. They have to be in the same category, class and type (if required) of aircraft.
As far as carburettor heat. I was taught to but it on during you base leg (or when you start reducing power from cruise) and take if off around 200 feet on finals. Strange how we all fly the same plane differently.... Thats Aviation all over haha. .
Nice Piper.
PA28 Warrior ... happy happy joy joy 😊
I've flown both ceiling and floor trim PA28s (currently own a '73 Challenger) and the floor trim is so much better.
Much better!
Yes it is!
our checklist calls for carb heat hot in the descent, and then off once cleared land (or 300ft above)
How can you tell where your trim is set on the Cherokee?
Otto should be doing his commercial in the right seat. For my students that want to be a CFI, I have them do their commercial in the right seat. I don't have to worry about transition flying and they are very proficient in the right seat with commercial maneuvers.
Thanks for finally explaining why you moved. Are you still renting from VanAnder Aviation or is the new FBO a new rental company? Will you be going back to ORL or staying at ISM?
Finally got around to it! This aircraft is owned by a relatively new rental company. I still have access to Van Anda aircraft so you’ll still see them from time to time.
I fly for free but I did learn on an old warrior 161 many years ago.
Get that disco handle going 🕺
Lewis, I’m in Orlando. How can I rent that Pa-28?
same thing is happening at biggin hill south London... prices there are ridiculous for students and they don't allow student pic departures or arrivals...
In Canada, it seems a bit more relaxed: “a pilot holding an Instrument Rating must complete 6 hours of instrument flying and 6 approaches to minimums (as are in the CAPS) to exercise the Instrument Rating every 6 months.”
CAP is the “Canadian Air Pilot” aka the Canadian Instrument Bible lol
That is not relaxed. That is more strict.
I think we disagree on your definition of "relaxed." To maintain instrument currency in the US requires no instrument flight time (technically, except that your time doing the approach itself must at least be logged instrument time) but just complete the instrument approaches to minimums at least under simulated instruments. Also, we could do these approaches and holding for currency in a motion flight sim which is cheaper. I guess the point is that in the US you can maintain instrument currency without ever flying an IFR flight plan and those approaches and holding can typically be done in less than 2 hours if you're just trying to be current and not proficient. Those less than 2 hours will make you current for 6 months.
When I first flew a plane with the trim handle on the ceiling my friend said to think of it as hitting my head, if it feels like you’re hitting your forehead that’s nose up, if you’re hitting the back of your head that’s nose down
Hit em on the nose for nose up, back of the head for nose down. You just helped me immensely!
i don't understand... could you explain further... i struggled with the pa28 140/cherokee roof trim although now i am using a pa28 warrior
@@1abc219 As you turn the trim handle if you go nose up (clockwise) it’ll be as if you’re hitting the front of your head (trimming nose up), if you turn it the other way it’ll be as if you’re hitting the back of your head (trimming nose down), that’s if you’re sitting on the left seat of course
@@andresuribe8765 many thanks and best wishes from the UK :)
I was military trained and now new to G.A. flying. Generally speaking, are private airfields (Orlando North Airpark) accessible to the public for touch and go's? Or do you have a relationship with the owner(s) of that one?
You have to have permission to land there. Luckily I know the owner and have permission.
Wings in the proper position!!! Love it ... Real airplanes have low wings 😅
Curious on the flying eyes sun glasses. Flying to AirVenture in July and was wondering if it'd be cheaper to buy a pair there or online?
Same price both there or online. But wherever you do buy them, make sure to use code LEWDIX for your 10% off 😉
Hey LewDix, another great video. Is it a Hero11 on the window? What mic adapter are you using for the audio? I can’t get my Hero11 to work with the adapter I have. Thanks man
It’s a hero 11 and I use NflightCam cables!
@@LewDixAviation Obrigado!
I fly a lot of Warriors and Archers with the trim on the floor. The one plane I rent... I swear, every time I reach down, my watch band pops the seatbelt.
I have 400-500 hours in warriors, Archers, 180's and Arrow's with the floor trim on the center. I have never popped the seatbelt when reaching for trim, from the left seat. I was taking my CFI checkride , and must have popped it off 3 times during the exam...reaching for the trim wheel. It was weird, and kinda disconcerting to keep asking the DPE to take the airplane, while i re-fastened the seat belt.
@@johnboleyn4024 Yep.... it's kind of strange and random like that.
There are certain rules for airports that FBOs have to provide certain services (including flight school parking and space). Not sure on every field but
Even in video, I still got the Narrow Runway Visual Illusion at 15:20. I was thinking they were coming in fast and high when in reality is the opposite
Was laughing so hard over the trim thing so true 😂😂
😂
Hey what year is this Cherokee @LewDix Aviation ?
1972
I was always taught to take carb heat off after full flap on final
Interesting to hear what instructors/flight schools teach their students, because that’s certainly not in the POH.
i will never miss airports of any size, its backyards only for me
Welcome to the Cherokee
1:07 Everybody knows runnin' with the Devil is a great time!
At least the C172 has the trim wheel in the correct position
Indeed it does. Shame about the rest of it.
Quick quiz: 4 exceptions when you DON'T need to fly the hold in lieu as he did ;)
With regards to carb heat in a Piper....As a 140 owner I often have to explain this to "Cessna People" . The Piper 140 POH says NO carb heat unless engine roughness due to ice. The POH of a Cessna does not transfer to a Piper no matter how much some instructors want it to. This is so stuck into the heads of most instructors who trained almost exclusively on the "infernal floaters". I have owned my Piper for 4 years and 500 hours. I fly all year round (Canada) and have never had carb icing. My carb heat typically goes on once per flight as per my checklist when I do my run up. The very odd time, if it is very humid out, I will briefly put it on during my approach decent when having it on would have no impact anyway. OBEY THE PLANE'S POH!
Exactly haha It’s been interesting to see people tell stories about what their instructors tell them to do with carb heat in PA28’s, but like you I usually only touch it once, during runup.
Cessna double door outweighs Pipers low wing.
Good luck getting those Cessna doors closed and latched though 😉
@@LewDixAviation I cant hear you over the wind blowing through the windows that don't have speed restrictions.
I prefer the low wing of my Piper PA32, but I’ll up it with the double back door.
In my Mooney, I can go fast enough where the vents work😂
I’ve always liked Pipers more, I’m not sure why. I guess I like the feeling of being flown around more than the feeling of being drug around.
To add to the carb heat thing...we use it in cherokees to avoid shock cooling while doing certain procedures.
For example, before cutting off the power entirely to perform a stall you turn on carb heat. Once reaching 60knots, you shut it off and prepare to recover.
While performing '360 over' procedures, you do the same, and turn off carb heat once you apply flaps, again, to prepare for a go around.
So, it is used very little, carb heat takes some power off of the engine. Not like much, but it is noticeable in your RPMs.
Other than that, you just use it for actual icing conditions.
I would suspect you actually cool your engine more doing this. Carb heat with full rich makes it even richer. Less fuel is fuel is ignited and leaves through the exhaust taking the engine heat with it. I don't think shock cooling is as much of a thing as it is made out to be. Just the approach and landing cools if off quickly without issue.
Good old Atlantic Aviation.
We hope to have a Cherokee available for flights within the next 2 months and hopefully another one, N32042, will be back out there before winter. Wish the KORL stuff wasn't true, but that's the way it is, it appears they are not even using our old tie down spaces.
There is plenty of space for your aircraft there. There’s no reason you should have had to move. It’s amazing what poor management will do to the reputation of a once great FBO 😂
Looking forward to seeing the Cherokee and if 042 is coming back I’ll be over the moon!
4 clients of mine got kicked out of our local FBO, and fortunately the FBO across the field was able to accommodate them. All about $, no loyalty to a long time tenant.
That’s so sad. It’s a shame that FBO managers only see $. The long term cost of losing GA would be disastrous to the FBO. They don’t see that though.
In Europe there are no currency reqs, other than a checkride once a year.
That’s very relaxed!
Does your CFI hours count towards your monthly flying hour restrictions in 121?
Yes they do.
Wow, that has to be an unnerving approach to be flying and landing in between trees like that..
It takes a bit of getting used to
Spectacular video, as always....high standards, yet full of fun, and yes, Ga is taking ahit, and also with the poor availablity of avgas. FBOs are looking at the future, and the bottom line. Personally, I think they should be looking up...GA is a wonderful thing, it represents our freedom to fly...doesn't it? Not all countries enjoy that freedom...it should be protected and respected. With the pilot shortage, one would think that there would be some supports put in place for GA to thrive...do they think Pilots just pop into existence???? Seriously....where do they think pilots get their start????
Exaaactly. Their shortsightedness will bite them one day. There’s nothing better than being able to take a light aircraft up and enjoy the views. They are slowly ruining that dream.
@@LewDixAviation 100%,and, yes, it’s about keeping the growth in the bottom line no matter what the cost🤔
Any chance we'll see you at Osh 23?
Unfortunately I don’t think I’ll be making it up there. If I do it’ll be on short notice.
The Cessna disdain 😂😂😂
It’s getting worse 😂
Did you not buy 829JS?
No, I don’t own an aircraft
Happening at airports all over the UK, but what FBOs and airport directors dont realise is that all those future pilots for their high-revenue jet traffic all have to learn on an single engine GA aircraft at the start of their careers! Then, when the jet traffic dries up (like during and after covid for example) they have no other revenue to fall back on! Very short-sighted! 🙄
The FBO managers sound as clueless as the ones at my former FBO.
In my pa38 terrorhawk training we have a flat rule that carbheat is on whenever rpm goes below 2000. No exceptions. Might be the climate here which is somewhat different to florida.
In my tommy, we too turn the carb heat hot around 1800rpm and below, but it is turned off on short final in the event of a go around.
Major cool points for flying with Silverwings, but a Cherokee?
I don't think you'll find many people around ORL that will say anything positive about that specific FBO
Well they’ve added another pilot to that list
Ah there's yer FBO problem. You're at an airport that leaves extra runway laying around and it's attracting swarms of jets.
Why do you not like Cessna. Ps I did switch to flying a Piper -140 - For several reasons. Less expensive aircraft to purchase for When I am ready to buy an airplane. It's the airplane they fly up in Bishop. It does fly better that a Cessna but is hotter inside.
Your approaches being ILS and RNAV do count. 61.57 doesn't discriminate if the "ELECTRONIC" navigation needs to be ground based or space based.
🙌🏻
Do you still accepting new student? My son wants to start flying.
Get down to Albert Whitted in St Petersburg (and have a burger at The Hanger) before the city shuts it down to put in million $ condos.
Also, I need to get back up with an instructor since I'm neither current, nor proficient. Get the commercial Otto! Don't let me catch up! 😅
That would be a tragedy
I love the VOR approach into Albert Whited. My favorite approach in the area. The hangar is a great place to do the paperwork and relax
PA-28 airplanes have a Lycoming engine, Cessna 152,172,182's mostly have Continental engines. The carburetor on the Continental engines is located such that they are more susceptible to carburetor icing, in general. And, very susceptible at lower power settings compared to Lycoming engines. That is why you apply carb heat in those airplanes during the landing phase of flight. and not the Piper aircraft.
So for all Cessnas the POH says to land with carb heat... for Piper it's off... makes no sense. I'd argue it's much better to have it on, as these engines ice up like crazy, and I'd much rather spend extra 0.25 second applying the carb heat during the go-around than have the engine quit on me on short final.
In all my years of flying PA28’s I’ve never once had carb ice. I’ve never applied carb heat for landing and never had a problem. Turns out the manufacturer knows what works for their aircraft haha
@@LewDixAviation try doing it over here in the Pacific Northwest. I almost threw away my expensive noise cancelling headset after one flight when my instructor kept applying carb heat every few minutes and I couldn't understand why as I couldn't hear the change in the engine sound. One student forgot to apply carb heat on downwind and ended up landing on a taxiway on their first solo. It's pretty crazy out here.
PA28 -----> C172
Im a bit concerned that you are still using this abusive CFI as your safety pilot!
It’s Stockholm syndrome
@@LewDixAviation😂
No
But yes
all birds in the nature are high wing fliers, therefore low wings aircrafts are not in a proper position..
Ah yes, because aircraft wings flap like a birds wing 😂 🙄
@@LewDixAviationnope, it's because of better views 😜