MAYDAY. Engine failure on final at Phoenix Sky Harbor. American Airbus A319 engine problem. Real ATC
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2022
- THIS VIDEO IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING SITUATION IN FLIGHT:
21-JUL-2022. An American Airlines Airbus A319 (A319), registration N816AW, performing flight AAL1424 / AA1424 from Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, AZ (USA) to Reno/Tahoe International Airport, NV (USA) after departure requested to level off at 10000 feet and reported engine indication. Later the crew declared PAN-PAN and requested return to Sky Harbor International Airport. Being on final the crew declared MAYDAY and reported more engine malfunctions.
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#realatc #atc #mayday
PART OF TEXT VERSION OF COMMUNICATIONS THAT I'M ABLE TO INCLUDE HERE. Do you want more? Write in comments and I'll give you remaining part of text communications (Read if subtitles in video were fast):
AAL1424: Departure, American 1424, 4400 climbing 8000.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, Phoenix Departure, radar contact, climb and maintain FL210.
AAL1424: Climb FL210, American 1424.
AAL1424: Departure, American 1424, we’re troubleshooting a problem right now. Request to level-off at 10000.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, amend your altitude, maintain 10000. Do you need any assistance at this time?
AAL1424: No assistance at this time, but we’re gonna need a vector somewhere, some place out of the way, while we troubleshoot.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, roger, fly heading 360 for now.
AAL1424: 360 on the heading, American 1424, 10000.
AAL1424: Departure, American 1424, got weather off the nose here. Can we get a vector to the left somewhere?
DEPARTURE: American 1424, I see weather about 30 north. The other northeast heading would keep you north of Sky Harbor. How about like 040?
AAL1424: … we're still troubleshooting, for American 1424.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, thank you. And are you able to say the nature of what you are looking at there?
AAL1424: Yeah, 1424, it’s just… We have an engine… engine thing, we just need to work out. It’s a… an engine indication, I guess, if I can word it that way, that we need to work out to see if we can go to our destination or not.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, roger, no problem, just advise when you get things figured out and we'll go from there.
AAL1424: Alright, thanks.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, turn right heading 150.
AAL1424: …
DEPARTURE: American 1424, turn right heading 170.
AAL1424: …170 now, American 1424.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, did you have a word to get in, I apologize.
AAL1424: No, we just said heading 170. We’re still trying to communicate with company as far as what we’re gonna do.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, roger, just keep me advised. I’ll just continue giving you delay vectors until I hear back from you. And if you need anything else, just advise.
AAL1424: We’ll advise, thank you for the help, American 1424, appreciate it.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, turn right heading 260.
AAL1424: …
DEPARTURE: American 1424, turn right heading 320.
DEPARTURE: American 1424, turn right heading 080.
AAL1424: …
AAL1424: It’s a right turn?
DEPARTURE: Yeah, right turn heading 080, American 1424.
AAL1424: Alright, thanks.
------ This is maximum I can write here. Do you want more? Write in comments and I'll give you remaining part of text communications ------
THE VALUE OF THIS VIDEO:
THE MAIN VALUE IS EDUCATION. This reconstruction will be useful for actual or future air traffic controllers and pilots, people who plan to connect life with aviation, who like aviation. With help of this video reconstruction you’ll learn how to use radiotelephony rules, Aviation English language and general English language (for people whose native language is not English) in situation in flight, which was shown. THE MAIN REASON I DO THIS IS TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND EVERY EMERGENCY SITUATION, EVERY WORD AND EVERY MOVE OF AIRCRAFT.
SOURCES OF MATERIAL, LICENSES AND PERMISSIONS:
Source of communications - www.liveatc.net/ (I have a permission (Letter) for commercial use of radio communications from LiveATC.net).
Map, aerial pictures (License (ODbL) ©OpenStreetMap -www.openstreetmap.org/copyrig...) Permission for commercial use, royalty-free use.
Radar screen (In new versions of videos) - Made by author.
Text version of communication - Made by Author.
Video editing - Made by author.
HOW I DO VIDEOS:
1) I monitor media, airspace, looking for any non-standard, emergency and interesting situation.
2) I find communications of ATC unit for the period of time I need.
3) I take only phrases between air traffic controller and selected flight.
4) I find a flight path of selected aircraft.
5) I make an animation (early couple of videos don’t have animation) of flight path and aircraft, where the aircraft goes on his route.
6) When I edit video I put phrases of communications to specific points in video (in tandem with animation).
7) Together with my comments (voice and text) I edit and make a reconstruction of emergency, non-standard and interesting situation in flight.
Shows how quickly a pan pan and just roll the trucks as an exercise can change to mayday mayday mayday. Well done to the crew.
They are doing away with Pan and Mayday. It is so Euro-Trite.
@@RLTtizME source? I didn't think this was true
@@RobertBardwell I just made it up to get a rise out of the Pan Mayday Dorks.
@@RLTtizME I heard anyone using pan pan will now be shot upon landing.
I watched whole thing, I didn't hear when it became a Mayday call .. How, when & why did that happen ?
Brings a lot of pride for the airline industry when the pilot and control tower communicate along with the emergency crews and bring the plane in safely. True professionals at there jobs.
Personally, I would have had them roll the tricks earlier, "If this evolves into another problem, I'd rather have them already out there waiting for me." That's what I'm thinking.
True professionals at their (not there) jobs.
But you are correct, the did their jobs very well.
@@FoxUnlisted hi Fox
I agree not well handled by the pilot...."err" "etr"....
Did not state the problem clearly.
Did not request emergency services...
Did not fully inform ATC /emergency services that he had shut down an engine.
Lots of procedural and liability errors......
Great ATC....gave clarity and structure .
Pilot sounds like a douchebag .. using the word about.
Very clear by everyone .
“Please don’t tell me we lost an engine”
“Alright I won’t tell you that”
...add more right rudder pls :D
Got tour reference 😅
You can't be serious
The one thing that really surprised me was a right turn to go from 230 to 140. But the ATC knew that would be unexpected, so he repeated "right turn" so the pilots would understand that he knew what he was doing and was doing it for a reason. Quality ATC work, right there!
👍
They had engine 1 failure so right turns were expected for safety reasons as well.
AA's new emergency scale:
3 - PAN-PAN-PAN 😬
2 - "Let those guys get some exercise"🧑🚒🚑👮♂️
1 - MAYDAY-MAYDAY-MAYDAY 😱
🤣
It’s how calm and collected the pilots are. “I’m just a little chilly” sounds the same as “Oh and the number 1 engine is about to explode on us.” 😮
Now THIS is how every controller should be ! This ATC was incredible and sets a standard many could follow.
Yeah...he's probably a national treasure and underrated too...
Doesn’t get much better.
Not to underestimate the gravity of a situation like this, but that was the most casual Mayday call I've ever heard. Almost like a formality and the captain knew he was safely on the ground.
What started as a PANPAN and developed into a MAYDAY. As a fearful flyer, I'm relieved to see such trained pilots and ATCs.
I wish more industries were treated as seriously as commercial aviation. These folks are pros!
That was nicely done by everyone involved. As a pilot in the Phoenix area myself (I fly out of Glendale KGEU) the ATC in this area is AMAZING to work with. They are always VERY professional and willing to help in any way they can.
Thought flying is supposed to be safe
@@thebros6515 It is safe. It's not perfect. Nothing is,. Did the plane land safely? Yes it did. No loss of life or injury.
This must be the calmest, cool, and most professional exchange I have ever heard.
the first time i heard the guy in the truck so clearly. Otherwise they just mumble something 🙂
Another day of great job by all. I love hearing these true professionals.
Great example of clear communication between all involved.
For real right? Like fire command didn't miss a beat. Everyone is good spirits for what COULD be a major event. Obviously we don't know what shut down engine 1 but if it was bad fuel for example, engine 2 could go from bad to worst very quickly.
Agreed. Concise, calm, clear and excellent confirmations. Another model example for training.
The pilots communication was far from concise, informative and clear..."err" "err"..
Thank goodness for that Controller.
@@daftvader4218 lots to do when engine failure is the issue and the list for emergency is long
I think the pilots were right not wanting to spool the engines too much , since they started having more malfunctions at right about the distance where you start applying ~61% N1 Thrust on final.
Since starting to listen to these conversations I now really appreciate what ATC goes through. Personally I couldn't do it. If I wore a hat it would be off to all these folks who get us from A to Z safely!
Pretty sure I saw this flight on its initial (odd) NNE path out of PHX roughly along I17, no flights ever take that particular path. Remember hearing an odd noise too recently similar to an engine failure but I cant be certain it was the same date or time.
Great job from all involved. Great communication despite that being priority#3 (Aviate, Navigate, Communicate) and great handling by KPHX TWR, TRACON, and emergency crew. 129 people survived that day due to all of the work of those people. Saludas.
Ehud
100 miles south of there in Tucson AZ
Commercial Helicopter Pilot
To think this was couple of a months ago and flew right over my house. The communication and commands given by the tower like as if nothing was even wrong was quite exceptional.
Great teamwork by pilot crew and all ATC. . . always good to know 'safely on the ground!!'. . . 👍✈✈👍
You could really sense the "I don't wanna bother them" feeling from the cockpit - great work from everyone despite that. Best to be prepared!
It feels more as if they were just busy coordinating with company and trying to understand the exact problem they were having. In the beginning they were like: just an indication thing, then after they'd checked out some stuff declared then PAN-PAN. Imo just sounding busy
Absolute professionalism on all involved!
I was impressed with fire command's clarity on the radio. Professional work all around!
I actually remember hearing about this around the time it happened. I don't live in AZ anymore but I have family that does and they know my interest in airplanes. I actually used to live where the scale is on the map
Thank You For This Amazing Coverage
Thank you for watching 👍
Professional and well handled all round!
"Let those guys get some exercise." lmao NO...SHOT he just said that! 🤣🤣🤣
Brilliant, clear communications. Nice involvement of fire crew on the radio - cut out the middle man - I like that! Less room for errors to be made. Nice to see American pilots remembering PanPanPan… 😉 But seriously, considering a lot of inaudible comms I’ve heard on videos like this involving strong American accents, this was awesome and very well mannered. They could almost be honorary English! 😄
They almost crashed because it should have been mayday from the start. If they had just done like most pilots and kept quiet about pan, mayday or emergency then they would have had a higher chance of survival.
Job well done is always satisfying to see!
The pilots were clearly going out of their way not to mention anything that sounded public relations, media headline attention-grabbing. They didn't want to say the word malfunction, problem, anything that sounded bad.
I mean a trained professional pilot literally resorted to telling ATC " we have an engine....thing." lmao
Totally picked up on that as the media would have sensationalized it and then AA would have had a stock drop for it.
@@jjmm2928 I read that as a potential buy opportunity.
Pathetic was it not...
"err" "err" "err"
Not clear and simple.
Thank goodness for the professional Controller
A
N
C
No more .
Keep calm & fly safe.
I am just loving them busting out the pan pan. Technically correct but with style points too!
What style...??
Didn't request emergency services on a technical and liability point.
@@daftvader4218 Look up the definitions of Mayday and PanPan.
they ended up getting vectored into the area of weather they asked a turn for earlier to get away from it. LOLOL!
The weather was actually 30-40 miles due north of the terminal area on this particular evening so it was not a factor for the American Airlines jet being vectored. If it was the pilots would have queried ATC and asked for a deviation. Also the aircraft was vectored northeast to keep them out of the Phoenix departure corridors and closer to the airport since they were landing west. It was a textbook job done by the controllers involved.
Great job!
Great job from all concerned.
I know it's got nothing to do with the emergency, but isn't Sky Harbour a cool name for an airport? 😉
Honestly, living in AZ and flying out of Sky Harbor as a kid and thinking about how cool of a name it was is probably what kickstarted my fascination in airplanes, and led me to a career in them
Everyone: Great job communicating.
Me: (hearing speed is your discretion) 😍😍
Good call by the tower to send out the trucks
Standard for almost any emergency in the US.
I think almost any tower controller will send out the trucks if in any doubt. Unless they're already dealing with something else, it doesn't hurt the emergency crews to roll out and get in position - as the pilot said here "let those guys get some exercise". FAR better to have the crews deployed and not need them than to suddenly need them because a situation got much worse and have them scrambling into position at the last minute.
Always interesting how hesitant pilots are to declare an emergency or openly discuss emergent situations. That hesitancy has ended badly many times.
Very professional job, by all!
👍
Glider's pilots are the best!
Bravo to all concerned. Safety cultures at work all round.
And that's how you do that.
It’s good when they turn out uneventful.
Makes you really thunk about how good those pilots have to be. Especially when they have an engine blow or catch fire mid flight and bring everyone down safely.
Good controller ! Tight -
I watched this flight fly over my house i always wondered what was going on.
I had something like this happen to me in 2016. DEN to TPA on United. Flying over Arkansas, Captain came on and said that they were getting issues with the number 2 engine saying it was on fire, but everything else said it was normal. That's when we did a 180 turn and the emergency was waiting for us at Tulsa. Upon landing they said that number 1 engine was on fire. It wasn't. We were cleared and went to our gate and then waited for a rescue plane to get us from Chicago. They said both sensors were dead and they had to wait. So... we arrived in Tampa 6 hours late.
These videos remind you that all the normally functioning sensible adults in the country are doing good, hard, essential work. From airports to water treatment. I wish we celebrated these folks more often.
The less-than-normally functioning adults are engaged in other... pursuits. I'll leave it at that.
Hey “you can see atc”.. can you do one on the engine fire on the Westjet flight out of Comox BC Jan 2/2023 on a Q400.
You do a great job!1
I was in a putt putt puddle jumper on a photographic mission above the airspace but near a class D when I sucked a valve. I still had some power but choose to sit it down in those big expansions of cement below me. The controllers soooo much wanted me to declare an emergency. I still had some power and energy enough to get me clear of the active and parked. The other soul on board took a taxi home. The valve problem was carbon on the valve stem with no impact to the piston so no bits and pieces. The fear of paperwork kept me from keying the Mike and saying those words, Mayday Mayday Mayday. The A&P came out, cleared the problem and I flew the Cessna back to my home airport 7 miles away. I did climb a to a safe glide altitude in the airport vicinity before venturing towards my home FBO. A great time was had by all.
What's that alliteration? "Proper Prior Planning Prevents..."? Well done yous two.
Prior Planning and Preparation Prevents Poor Performance
@@tomstravels520 That's it! I think there's another P word in some versions but it's a cuss word and probably not polite for youtube.
@@qb1rdman Quite correct, but far too many people don't care.
wow this happened right over my head. lol
Can we get some props for the pilot not feeling pressured to try and make the flight up to Reno even though it appeared like the engine problem was minor? I could imagine some airlines would rather you, if it's not an emergency, just take the risk because then they don't have to deal with passengers. And obviously the pilot's caution worked out.
I don’t know anything about aircraft engines, but are those things not supposed to be super reliable and well behaved? If it started showing unexpected behaviour (even if it’s just slightly higher temperature or pressure or reduced thrust) is that not enough cause to be concerned?
I want the first controller working if I have an emergency.
Wow
Just like they do it in the sim!
Looks like they could have flown to Reno. In a straight line, if you stretch out all the turns plus return.
Yeah it’s a insane amount of checklists and coordination with dispatch and flight attendants. And need to burn off fuel for max landing weight.
I was thinking the same. For the amount of time it took to figure things out they might have simply flown to their destination.
Reno single engine. No thanks.
Better equipped mechanics in PHX. Since it’s their base.
@@OMGWTFLOLSMH Theres a number of reasons not to continue to destination with an engine failure. They wouldn’t be able to climb to their cruising altitude on one engine for one. Plus, Reno is surrounded by terrain and its not a place you want to be on a single engine.
An epilogue would be enjoyed.
All souls onboard, survived.
Hey! I can see my house from here!
Title of the video is wrong. It was a departure not a final
Shout out to the pilots. Anybody know what the Ecam notification was?
I'm guessing the initial problem was high engine vibration which is an advisory at first then an ecam
Good communication but I think the pilot should have been transparent with true nature of the problem.
Radio brevity.
This is why I dislike pan pan. Just go right to declaring and emergency and get priority vectors. Great job by the pilots and atc tho. Phoenix tracon is awesome and AA has some top class pilots
I love it when pilots anticipate souls on board and fuel.
The ads on this channel are unbearable.
I wonder if the mayday was for insurance purposes
Probably it was necessary.
Yeah they definitely announced it simply for procedure, so they didn't get in trouble for not calling a mayday, that's literally the only reason.
In over 20 years of airline flying I've never heard an instructor even mention insurance concerns. We're here to safely fly the jet, let the lawyers worry about that.
@@gerardmoran9560 glad to hear!
Yeah, perhaps they could have started a fire in the cabin or deliberately landed gear up too?
You actually don't have to say "mayday" or "panpan" those are just break-in phrases to get attention.
Good job. However, instead of asking for vectors, asking for a hold in present position is a great option. It will free up capacity for the crew (who don't needs to concentrate so much on ATC) and the controller (who knows where they are and don't need to 'control'). Just do a lateral reversion at present position (PPOS), HOLD at 3L, revise if necessary and insert.
This may seem a reasoned alternative, but there are some other considerations. If you enter holding you surrender to the max holding speed of 210 KTS and maneuvering circles within a time window. Many aircraft at that speed need flaps extended, If the irregularity is high lift devices you limit your operational speed and may not be able to do all that the checklist requires. holding also requires more supervision of the aircraft and more frequent turns. Remember if you are troubleshooting control surfaces you may not have full lateral or longitudinal authority. I have done random assignment of turns by ATC. it is quite manageable for the crew, and keeps the pilot flying more involved.
What's the problem. ..!!??
Shut down the engine.
Descent , approach and before landing check...
The vectors are a linear "hold"
on the way to a safe landing.
@@daftvader4218 I'll love to see you explain to the FAA and your company why you performed a landing on one engine without trying the evaluate and restart the engine that was shut down. That's not your best work. The approach and before landing checklist on an aircraft with a bad engine is different and much more involved. The flap setting is also different and approach speeds much higher. This is not a Cessna 172 you now have to access if your original landing airport is still suitable and if you need a change of go-around procedures on one engine. Do your assessments and defect checklist before going down the [ THE AIRPORT'S is RIGHT THERE ] rabbit-hole. This idea of just getting it on the ground has had more aircraft in a pile off the departure end of the runway.
@ wadadli4sun... all things considered, this incident was handled properly and well by all involved. While having to run diagnostics and complex checklists and continue to fly a plane that might become a handful at any second, the last thing the crew needs is to be burdened with flying a timed maneuvering procedure requiring resetting the radios and FMS. In this case the controllers could see the big picture better, moved the flight to a broad, safe, uncongested maneuvering area to give time and space to work out the problem, and essentially took over navigation, allowing the pilots to concentrate on Job 1 which is always "Fly The Plane." Not arguing with you, just discussing.
Question: if that engine is malfunctioning, don't pilots shut it down? Cause they can still work fine with just 1 engine?
Depends on the problem and what the emergency checklist tells to do but yeah they fly well on one engine.
A malfunctioning engine is better than two shut down engines, imagine a common fault like maintenance or fluids.
Can someone hear 100% clearly this conversation without subtitles ?
Yes. (Well apart from where the radio cut out)
Professionalism by all here.
this is scare, my cat is sad
Those pesky engine things :)
Yeah, right - let's just loose them. Saves trouble and money. :D
Need vectors for a good thermal
Mayday at 8:36
Why is it that some want fuel in pounds and others want fuel in time?
I've never heard an ATC ask for fuel reserves in pounds. I have heard pilots give the fuel in pounds and the ATC ask them to re-state it in terms of time.
Geez. Get a room people.
Ahhh that’s what was messing up the runway last week at work
What ever the problem was I guess it wasn’t just an “indication” problem. It’s hard to say what exactly was going on.
likely they had an ECAM message at first, and didn’t know what it meant, had to consult the QRH, etc. Clearly it was serious, but it’s not always immediately apparent.
@Portland Vlogger57 who said it was on final…?
@Portland Vlogger57 oh, yeah I mean the actual engine shutdown happened on final approach though. Also not sure why you put that as a comment reply here still.
@Portland Vlogger57 they didn't declare mayday until on final. Reason would have it that they escalated the seriousness (from pan to mayday) of the situation due to something major happening. Such as the engine finally failing. I fail to see how the title is incorrect.
I suspect this was a high engine vibration advisory maybe followed by more vibration and an ecam. They asked atc to not move the engine around much.
Such crap communications from the pilots. Tell the controller what you see.
As a result of the secretive nature of the pilots, the controllers had to make assumptions and were unable to give the emergency equipment any valuable information.
Two things that I find noteworthy, not necessarily a criticism. Instead of all that vectoring and communicating they could have asked for a present position hold, 10 miles legs (or any number). Enter the hold in the airplane does the rest. It's weird that he uses the term pan pan pan and mayday mayday mayday while he's already in the middle of a conversation with the controller. Those phrases are meant to be at the beginning of a transmission to get their attention. In the middle of a conversation you would just say we're now declaring an emergency. The entire industry is being dumbed down so much it's disturbing. There are airlines that prohibit pilots from actually hand-flying an approach in IMC. It's only going to get worse with the pilot shortage and diversity hiring instead of skill-based hiring. Also, whoever posted this video, there was not an engine failure on final they shut it down after landing. Even if it had failed that is something that is practiced for hundreds of times in the simulator and the aircraft is quite capable of landing single engine and it is not that challenging. What would be challenging is a single-engine go around at minimums instrument conditions, also practiced constantly in the sim.
They did good for how it turned out but I think the pilots were a bit behind the curve. Even when he declared a mayday he gave justification first. PILOTS UNDERSTAND A MAYDAY ISNT SAYING YOUR GONNA CRASH AND DIE ITS JUST TO GET EVERYONE PREPARED. AGAIN YOU HAVE 129 people on board you always want fire ready and waiting especially with engine indications or malfunctions. Do you want that engine bursting into flames and blowing the plane up then have everyone hear how you refused emergency vehicles? Probably not. Usually it’s a denial mechanism but the issue is (you can’t change what you don’t acknowledge) a lot of pilots today struggle with acknowledging when they have a problem. Caution is always the best being 129 lives are in your hands. Obviously they had to shut it down so it was progressing.
He must have a reason. Companies investigate pilots whenever anything goes wrong.
Such wonderful wisdom without learning.
Excellent. Good job to all parties.
Don’t know what they needed to discuss with company at that point in time.
Dispatch can help with finding suitable diversion airports, crunching numbers for landing performance, coordinate getting a gate and getting passengers re-booked, etc. In training they teach you to treat emergencies as normally as possible. Follow the quick reference card/handbook and utilize all resources that are available to you for the optimal outcome (ATC, dispatch, other crewmembers). Engine failures aren't even on the quick reference card at my airline since they aren't critically time sensitive except on takeoff and landing, in which case you aren't going to be reaching for a card/handbook until clean and climbing at final segment speed.
Yeah, company needs to know that your coming back and to help you out, the dispatcher is a crew member also.
PLus they were probably talking to a mechanic who could tell them what the instrument readings meant and whether they could fix them in the air or had to come back to fix them. Notice how they said "We're doing shallow descents, and don't want to level off until we're on final to not move the engines around too much"? I'm fhinking they had some sort of engine imbalance, which could have shaken the engine apart.
@@murphsmodels8853 but at some point you have to fly the plane. All maintenance is going to tell them is, “Did you run the QRH? Call us on the ground.” Also, the comment about not moving the engines around too much was a little strange to me. Are we talking about a high vibe or an engine dangling from a pylon? Just kinda weird, IMO.
Seriously? For a multitude of reasons, including it being on the checklist.
Why in holy hell can't these fuel on board requests be standardized? Hours/pounds???
Because quantity and time are not uniform across the entire range of aircraft and those are two different questions. It's really not a big deal outside of youtube comments.
@@A.J.1656 really? So some airplanes burn more fuel/hr than others? What are you trying to say? ATC needs to know endurance. Crew is busy--shouldn't have to give an hours remaining estimate, but they can look at the fuel quantity indicator and instantly say pounds. Pretty easy for ATC to have a table showing aircraft type/fuel in pounds/endurance. Additionally, the emergency equipment likes to know how big the fire might be. So do it pounds (and for aircraft that use kilos, let them answer in kilos--keep a conversion chart [or do a quick 2.2 multiple]). This is not rocket science!
@@tenpiloto
That's silly. ATC will typically ask in terms of endurance and that's what most pilots answer. If they are asking on behalf of the firefighters, they might ask about quantity. I know repeating comments you see other people make is a good strategy if you're searching for a little of that sweet sweet like button dopamine rush, but in real life it's just not an issue.
Charts and conversions to avoid a 3 second radio exchange? Lol
@@A.J.1656 yes. An A319 will burn less fuel per hour than an Airbus A330
Doesn’t really matter in the end. If ATC wants the other we don’t mind giving either. Figuring out both time or pounds is easy for the pilots. ATC doesn’t have time to look up fuel burn charts for every type of aircraft out there. Plus fuel burn changes based on all types of factors.
Ahahahahaahhahaahahahah, Keep em' comin!
Ever so often I wonder why they'll let them park an airliner full of fuel, with hot brakes and/or possible engine damage next to a terminal.
Seems like eventually one will cook-off next to the jetway/terminal and spread into the building.
I mean if your car shows up with smoking brakes, leaking fluid, or engine damage, accompanied by a fire truck, you're not putting it in my garage. Or next to the house. You'll park it on the street and get out there.
NO! YOU CANNOT CONTINUE TO YOUR DESTINATION. Land the damned plane. And that's my house you are circling over while you poke at your plane, so I would really appreciate it if you didn't fall out of the sky. 😠
Don't they believe their engine instrumentation? But I don't know if it was just a bad oil pressure indication, so my suspicion of calamity probably isn't warranted. I wonder if the 737 crew that ended up in the Pacific off Hawaii had the same lack of belief before they went swimming. If the engine instrumentation says something bad is happening there's a really good chance that multi million dollar badness is occurring. Does it make better financial sense to stoog around waiting to see if it trashes itself instead of landing before that happens, on the off chance that maybe the instrumentation is bad.
What 737 ended up in water off Hawaii? Didn't hear about that?
@@barbaracameron5610 TransAir 810 July 2 2021 (Some show the flight number as 4810 but the aircraft as 810). Engine failure on takeoff and they took a broad right turn out over the Pacific and then realized they couldn't maintain altitude and started to come back in. But by then the airport was unreachable and they ditched. Sometimes you really just need to get back on the ground. Most of it goes to the crew for running checklists on a plane that was slowing and descending at low altitude over the ocean when they should have been heading straight back in.
ruclips.net/video/HsjIMAr3nZk/видео.html
We have no clue what the indication was - there could be hundreds of items that pop up on the ECAM which mean next to nothing and will be handled on the ground during the next turn. All they can do is run their checklists and advise company. 🤷🏻♂️
@@EstorilEm Very true. And it's a cost judgment, returning to the airport for a bad sensor would have cost tons of fuel and a lot of money. It could still have been something relatively minor that resulted in the shutdown in the end. There was nothing falling out of it at the end, so it hopefully wasn't the million dollar rebuild sort of problem.
Pilots don't make up new procedures on the spot to save the day. That only exists in movies. In the real world you have a procedure and steps to follow. If they got an indication, there is a procedure for that indication. Some procedures say land immediately, some say land as soon as practical, some have like 30 steps to resolve the problem. You don't know what indication they had, you don't know what procedures they had to accomplish and you shouldn't assume they did anything other than handle the situation perfectly.
Textbook how it should be done!
Not by the pilots.
I'm surprised so many people are impressed with how "professional" this is. Shouldn't it be that as soon as an anomoly occurs they get the aircraft onto the ground asap? Do the troubleshooting on the ground. Obviously this will cost the airline more if it's a false alarm.... but if they really care about the 129 souls. Personally I find this concerning. Just because these guys sound cool and collected doesn't mean they are doing the right thing. Am I missing something (I am an engineer, but not an aviator).
Bruce,retired Stationary Engineer,no aviation ,however me too.
No, not every anomaly requires returning to the departure airport.
As an Airline Pilot I’d love to give you a lecture on aviation but is just not posible here. All I can say is, trust the system, there is a reason why aviation is the safest way to travel. God bless you all.
@@manueldecastro6892 sorry, but this sounds like a doubling down of poor safety culture. I dont need a lecture. Just why not land if instruments indicate an engine anomoly? Please give a hint as to reason?
@@brucerobertson5919 I'm not a pilot, but I could speculate some reasons why running some checklists is in fact the pro-safety thing to do and landing hastily could be a panicky mistake. Some airliners are capable of taking off with more fuel than they can safely land with. In those cases, they might need to dump some fuel before landing. Here's another one: if you're down to 1/2 of the engines you started with, the safety margins for landing become smaller. It might not be so easy to go around if things aren't lining up right. So if you might only have one shot at it, you'd want a longer, less steep approach to increase your odds of success. Qantas Flight 32 offers a good illustration of how some extra time in the air can really pay off to make sure all the bases are covered when a tricky landing following a malfunction is necessary.
if i dont look at the subtitles i find it hard to understand, like listening to biden
Probably the first time in my life I've heard an American crew at least partially know how to declare an emergency properly :)
Watch enough of these videos and you will see it's not the first. Sigh....
@@karend1577 It's bloody rare. I mean using the correct terms Pan Pan and Mayday appropriately.
Give A.T.C. credit too. Perhaps the FAA had recently given out a little helpful tips information sheet.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Like how to use standard RT phraseology? That kind of stuff is day one of training. US radio discipline is horrendous.
Why is American R/T so completely non-standard? Absolutely hopeless.
Scardy cats.
Plane has 2 engines.can fly and land on one! Phx has long runways.too much fuel!
We don't know the nature of the engine problem. Might be able to fly on one, but it could cause many more problems.
They weren;t anywhere near overweight. I worked at Sky Harbor as a fueler, and I;ve fieled that exact plane on that route. THey only take about 15,000lbs of fuel, which is nothing compared to the 40,000lbs they can carry.
@@murphsmodels8853 tbf they might take extra for weather but still 🤷🏻♂️
@@arjunyg4655 that was accounting for weather. Standard fuel load for that flight with a 319 is 6000lbs.
@@murphsmodels8853 ah nice 👍
Hey would you look at that - a US pilot who knows the proper ICAO RTF phraseology. Of course it's so unusual the controller has no idea what to do with it so he just treats it as an emergency 🤣 I just find it so hilarious how the native speakers handle these type of situations.
yess
Foreigners are so jelly. lol
Ro
There's always someone in the comments that says something dumb like this.
If the pilot could talk clearly and express himself concisely ...state the problem. ...cut out the "err" "err" hesitation and verbal diahorrea. ..
And then not to request emergency services which is virtually mandatory for a technical problem return ???
He never even mentioned when he shut the engine done...
Lots of procedural errors...
That information is required by ATC and emergency services.
Thank goodness for that controller with that wishy washy pilot.....he gave logic,safety and structure to the incident.
Iti s only mayday when you are going down or on fire.... and going down. Proper to declare an emergency, pilots these days are not trained to fly rather to panic and run checklists...
It really doesn't matter and in fact...they should do away with Pan Pan and Mayday altogether.
Where was the panic in these or any pilots?
@@saxmanb777 As in over react but perhaps sarcasm is beyond you.
Wrong
Tell me you don’t know shit about ICAO phraseology without telling me you don’t know shit about anything aviation related….