Elden Ring Has Bad Boss Design
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 май 2022
- #eldenring #fromsoftware #darksouls
While Elden Ring's take on open world design is refreshing and well executed, it's not a perfect game and the boss design is very poor compared to Dark Souls, Sekiro, and BloodBorne. In this video, I want to explain why I don't enjoy any of the boss fights in Elden Ring, 
Игры
I'm going to ignore every bit of criticism about 'From Software', whether it's valid or not, to say "Git Gud" as I lack any critical thinking capabilities.
Just like every fucking elden ring fan
its a meme its not that deep
Git gud
And if a game dev does it, then it must be good 🤦♀️
When you build your entire personality around having played Dark Souls is what happens. Sad
Elden Ring boss fights are like fighting an anime character as a regular person
Yeah in most games you feel like the boss fighting npc’s and in Elden Ring you feel like an npc fighting bosses.
@@noordpool7767 is that a bad thing?
Exactly. Their movesets were designed to fight multiple attackers because of spirit ash summons. As a result, you're getting your ass kicked if you're trying to fight them alone.
@@BhaalSakh I agree that they designed the bosses (especially the later ones) around summons (either ash or player), but then I feel like using the mimic tear makes the bosses too easy. The first time I fought Radagon I was able to just stand next to him spamming Mohg's Spear weapon art while my mimic tanked hits and killed him super quickly. The alternative was spending (probably) many attempts learning his moveset, especially if I wanted to finish the fight with enough heals left to deal with the slog that is Elden Beast.
i still think elden ring bosses wouldn't be a problem if you had the movility of sekiro or some of the aromered core's
I feel like if they are gonna make hyper aggressive bosses, they should also let you be aggressive in return. Sekiro’s bosses nailed this. Because as long as you stayed in their face, you controlled the pace of the fight. Which is just not an option in this game. You don’t get to be aggressive.
Dude that storm ghost enemy with two swords is a prime example of hyper aggressive.
You can be aggressive in return. My guess is you're trying to be aggressive with an ultra weapons. Those are slow and people can't see to grasp that
You can, but you can also be significantly more defensive lol
@@juliusb7713 its just not true that you can't be aggressive and being aggressive is the key to a lot of fights. People just stand there and don't know what to do and watch the boss combo spam and go wtf lol er has the best boss fights imo except maybe sekiro
@@RealMonkeyDKirby not really, you can’t control the pace and force the ai into uncomfortable positions like bb or sekiro. You have to play by their rules.
I’d also mention fighting the camera with oversized bosses.
That's an issue in all FromSoft games, and it's not fixable.
@@doompenguin7453 uhm how is it not> when other games manage to do it way better
@@doompenguin7453 Sekiro nailed it they regressed pretty significantly in Elden Ring
@@doompenguin7453 Having the camera zoom out when you are fighting massive creatures is 100% possible and could even be an option.
@@henkhenkste6076 every game has had people complaining about the camera being “the secret hardest boss”. Elden ring is far from the worst at this too
Some bosses felt like I had to wait for a certain attack just to do a jump in attack then roll away and repeat. Honestly coming from Bloodborne it was a bit hard to adapt to playing this passive. I found Bloodborne's bosses much more engaging.
yeah... like rom, and the one reborn, and celestial emmisarry, and witches of hemwick.......ye..
@@nrnjn8547 4 bad Bloodborne bosses (they aren't) out of 22 bosses vs. 4 good Elden Ring bosses out of 120. You really thought you did something there lmao
I mean if a boss is attacking you don’t you have to wait for an opening to attack what the fuck is this comment
@@affable8696 If you think celestial emissary is good then every single boss in elden ring should be considered God tier lul.
Now in elden ring there's like 3 bad bosses(tree spirit, fire giant and godskin duo).
Compare that to bloodborne(main game) which really wasn't as amazing when it came to boss mechanics(micolash ur balls)
Now let's get into chalice dungeons.....ok..ok I'm sorry I wont
U just lost
@i have no mouth and i must scream
Ehh better lore? Yea I guesss, better music?? Yeas absolutely. Better game??? Ahahhahahahhaha u lost
Tracking 🖕🏾… the most annoying thing that makes me want to quit sometimes. Especially the stupid endree’s. This game is forced to be hard because of “gotcha mechanics” enemies committed to a move in one direction should not be able to fucking turn a 180 and hit me. Especially since most hits will one shot you..
Exactly. If we have to commit to a movement, so do they. The problem with Souls games after the first one is that the bosses are not following the same rules as you.
The Late game bosses are playing DMC5 while we reverted back to Demon Souls (I do think ER control are more sluggish than DS3).
@@J-manli right, they move at light speed, while I still have to slow down and take baby steps to heal, while they track my healing input as well.
@@J-manli i actually agree, i thought i was the only one that ur character moved slightly slower then ds3
@@J-manli yes i found it strange in elden ring , the rolls after some attacks just wouldnt work , other times they work fine , roll window is also strange sometimes... I am honestly surprised that not enough people are talking about this elden ring issue .. Im suspecting most of ppl just look up online "how to make OP build in ER" and then walk around all proud and mighty after they 2 shot bosses... Remember average player is not going to explore everything 100% , hell they probably wont even hit level 100 when they need to..
I absolutely enjoy Elden Ring from the beginning all the way up until you get the Mountaintops of the Giants. I understand there's supposed to be a difficulty spike but jeez the balance from that point in the game gets so lopsided against you. That also seems slightly worse if you don't use Sorcery/Incantations and use Melee only. The Late Game bosses in general seem hard for the sake of being hard, not for the sake of being a challenge that you can overcome through learning movesets. I mean Malenia looks like a literal Sekiro Boss that Miyazaki and Fromsoft dropped into a Souls Combat oriented game just because. That's not fair or balanced, it's just inane bull shit.
Inane bullshit is a nice way to put it. Simply thoughtless feels more accurate to me
I mean malenia isn’t terribly hard considering even the weakest of attacks stagger her and stronger attacks completely knock her off her feet. The only real problem I have with her is that she can seemingly start up her next combo instantly after finishing the previous one.
Melania is an incredible, FAIR, and hard fight. Fire Giant, Godskin Duo, and Radagon/Elden beast are awful
@@babytricep437 denial
@@babytricep437 well elden beast is garbage but radagon’s moves are all well telegraphed and make you feel like you are actually dodging his attacks rather than just spamming the roll button.
Elden Ring is a great game and I love it, but I'm so sick of people pretending it's flawless. The bosses are some of the worst of any of the Souls/Souls-like game. Bosses are either pushovers and too easy or they're ridiculously difficult and feel cheap. Hell, I'd even argue fighting normal mobs feels that way too. Overall, defeating enemies doesn't feel like it has in previous games. It doesn't feel rewarding. It feels like that feeling when you get home from work, where you're glad to be done but don't really feel like you got much done.
The fact that every enemy delays most of their attacks for SO LONG makes it bad. A multiple-second delay before swinging is absolute bullshit and extremely frustrating.
It's so unnatural that it's trusting. They would be mid swing and just freeze for 3 seconds then finish the attack. Even had the fire helmet guy do it with the whip.
Lmao God just don't panick roll. Don't sta.d there and watch them for their ai to sct different by rolling right and being on them
@@RealMonkeyDKirby yeah because you know what's super fun? Standing around waiting unable to do any other actions at all just for your roll window. Wow. So engaging. So fun. So necessary.
@@jumbo9386 I never do that. You're playing the game wrong and complaining instead of learning how play it it. These fights are hands down the most engaging intense and difficult to learn. But there's a group of you who can't adapt and just bitch and complain instead
@@jumbo9386 punish during the delayed attacks
In Dark Souls 3 I always kill myself a couple of times when fighting bosses like The Abyss Watchers, Twin Princes, Soul of Cinder and Slave Knight Gael because I enjoy them so much. It always felt good to overcome a boss since they were so fair. I never felt the same about Elden Ring bosses. I always thought to myself "Thank fuck that's over. Hopefully the next one isn't so annoying." only to be met with disappointment.
I really hope the DLC is good because I'm going to be really sad if this end up being the game I replay the least.
@Totally normal Guy Yeah it just isn't fun to get one-shot by Malenia's Waterfowl, or run around for over 30 seconds before you can attack. I can't believe people defend this shit.
@@skelettman truer words never been spoken
i’ve beat elden ring twice, and am stuck on maliketh
Not because i keep failing to kill him, i just haven’t bothered fighting him yet because i dread the fight. Not only is he extremely aggressive, but there’s no pay-off for the aggression
His triple swing backpedal is particularly annoying because your options are to roll away and miss the potential attack window, or roll into him and get roll caught, then get comboed with whatever bullshit he follows up with
And that’s not mentioning how, after transforming, he can teleport away if you manage to corner him
Which is extra annoying considering he can teleport *up* which means not only are you probably mid-animation, but now you more than likely have a 3 hit kill coming your way, even with 60 vigor
I find myself cussing the boss after beating it, instead of that usual feeling of accomplishment. Because the win doesn't feel earned most of the time.
Wait until you find out your can spam roll left and win every DS3 boss fight.
The boss design is terrible, so many of them are bad, I can count on one hand how many felt balanced or difficult because of skill or reading mechanics instead of luck. So many bosses with neverending attacks, they force you so far away you can't punish, constant delays to an extreme extent(Radahn meteors anyone?) and inout reading that is so cancerous, you go for a pot, the boss reacts instantly and flies across the whole map to stop you, go in to punish a combo you've seen multiple times? Suddenly the boss can instantly go into another 80 hit combo attack with no wind up faster than you can react to. Add in that bosses do so much damage the only difference between a 10 vigor build and an 80 vigor build is that the first will get one shot and the others will get 2 shot, but summons, status and running away will destroy 90% of bosses in the game. The design is horrible and it sucks because the world is so cool and fun but the boss design completely ruins it, I already know I'm not replaying because I just think of B.S. roadblock bosses like Radahn and it kills my desire to even try new builds because some of the bosses force you into certain builds or overleveling.
i feel radhan was cool, but malekith feel like watching a movie, you have to wait 40 seconds to do a one hit punish
@@jorgegustavo8329 I dislike Radahn a lot personally, mainly that attack with the small orbiting meteors. He's one of the bosses that feels like it forces you to play certain builds if you don't want extreme frustration. I would be more ok with him if he wasn't a roadblock boss that needs to be defeated to continue a storyline. 100% agree about Malekith, feels like they went all style at the expense of gameplay. The anime B.S. looks epic but in a game that's supposed to be skill based, it's just frustrating.
Yeah, even Radahn who's the most appraised boss in the game had some bs behind him. I started to dislike him as well after the multiple different one shot moves he did that brought the spectacular fight to a screeching halt.
@@mismismism radahn isnt required to beat the game, hes optional. And maliketh is easily one of the best designed bosses in fromsofts games, any build you have will be sufficient IF you just learn his moves, hes not too hard and can be done within 10-15 tries on a first play through, even if its your first souls game
@@mismismism I found radahn to be quite easy after bullshit 1hit godfrey. But then you get to elden beast , and i just feel asleep at that point...
You're absolutely right. I suffered through Mohg and Maliketh, then quit the game on Malenia. Why? Because I refuse to change my solo strength build into a bloodhound-bleed-mimic-mage or spend hours stuck on unfair bosses that aren’t fun to fight or satisfying to defeat. Many people don’t seem to understand that if FromSoft have abandoned their “tough but fair” design philosophy, then they have also lost all respect for their fans. Unless this is corrected, their future games will only get worse as a result.
git gud
Malekith wasn't that hard with a strength build right?
@@akid8642 he isnt THAT hard. In my opinion I think his first phase is worse
@@br1n99 yeah would have loved if there was more of the second phase
@@akid8642 I love Maliketh’s lore and visual design, but flipping around the arena like an anime character makes it hard to punish any of his attacks with a slow weapon. You spend most of the fight just waiting for an opening or chasing him around the arena. Don’t even get me started on combos that chain into combos then finish with an AOE explosion that can hit you from the next postcode. It’s not that these fights are too hard, it’s that they’re just not fun.
Agreed. I also personally think the way they did the delayed attacks is wrong. The way nameless king punishes panic rolling is perfect. He's designed to throw you off, but not intentionally to trick you.
For ER bosses, it feels like the boss is running up to you with his fist raised, going "do you think I'm going to hit you now? How about now?" It comes off as obnoxious and lazy to me
The animations look so fucking stupid. It's like Dark Souls 2 with the turtles spinning around mid-attack. It's BS they put in the game just to make sure that even the "gud" players would die.
I actually Like this Feature a Lot. This way you have to indivitually get used to each Boss and enemy what makes it interesting.
@@mendanikan9125 I can see that for some people, but I personally found it more fun to be able to react to a new boss with at least some proficiency as was possible in previous Fromsoft titles. I beat many of the most infamously challenging bosses on the first try in previous games, while in Elden Ring it felt like I either had to use a spirit summon or spend a whole bunch of time learning patterns. I play games for fun, and practicing a boss over and over quickly loses its appeal.
Learning patterns is still important if you want to do something like a hitless run in BB or DS3, but for the other 99.9% of the playerbase who just wants to progress through the game at a regular pace I just don't think it's a good design.
@@crafty_matt but then the point of the souls game would be lost dont you think, just because you play a game to relax and not try over and over does not make elden ring a bad game or that aspect a bad design. At the end of the day, Fromsoft make games that are challenging and will always try make bosses that can't be breezed over or shouldn't be first tries, they want players to try a bit more because thats the appeal of their games, the difficulty and overcoming it by being patient and learning from mistakes.
I have no problem with delayed attacks, in fact I'd rather have that then the boss unrelenting. Delayed attacks are also opportunities, time for you to think, maybe risk a greedy hit if you are fast enough, heal on time or just take a breather during an intense boss fight. Morgott for example is very aggressive and very agile, these delayed very telegraphed attacks are kinda like a break in a sense from the heated combos he dishes out.
@@ryanfesselet4826 Yes, part of the appeal of the Souls games has always been that you have to "earn" your victories. Giving a boss a handful of attempts is fine (especially since ER had very short runbacks), but I've seen streamers giving some of the harder bosses (especially Malenia) 100+ attempts before they finally beat them. It's one thing when you're being paid to do it as a streamer, it's another to bang your head against the wall by yourself in your free time. At a certain point it stops being fun and just becomes a chore, and once it reaches that stage I find it to be a waste of time to learn a boss pattern instead of doing something useful with my time. Video games are meant to be fun, if it feels like work then why play them?
I really hate the parrying mechanics in Elden Ring. It's probably only useful against a handfull of enemies like the crusible knight and banished knights who don't give much room for direct damage and have long combos. When it comes to posture in general spamming weapon arts like moonveil blade or flame of the redmanes is just the safer and more efficient for most bosses if you want to stagger them. What's even more stupid is that criticals actually do less damage than if you just spammed attacks on the boss and for some reason NULLIFY ALL OTHER DAMAGE during the animation. If you're playing with other people or summons and accidentally press quick attack on the wrong spot, then congratulations, you've effectively wasted an opening for others involved.
In Bloodborne parrying essentially made the game easier as you could deal lots of damage and replenish all health you recently lost. In sekiro deflection was in the center of combat and getting good at it made all the fights notably shorter. In Elden ring parrying somehow makes the fights longer and offers no benefits outside of being a skill that's fun to learn but hard to master.
Parrying is just another one of the tools to build posture breaks. You can also carry a dagger for crits and use the hp/fp back on riposte talismans. If you carry two shields you can have one with carian retaliation and one with noskill, so you have parrys, ashes of war, and guard counters at the same time. During my Malenia fight I used guard counters occasionally, a lot of lion's claw, and the hp restored on riposte talisman. If I got the riposte it meant a nice heal, plus a long hard knockdown that guaranteed a followup lion's claw. She would heal back my small hits when I blocked but I would get huge damage when I broke her posture. If I was skilled enough to be throwing parrys in there the fight would have lasted a fraction as long (especially because you can parry most of her combo starters).
@@blahbliff9726 thats not true when you get a criticals attack you make the boss fall and you can do a charge attack in this time, this very effective and better than simply attack pretty poweful on malenia for me
@@jj-fs2xc I think you meant to reply to the comment above me, because I agree with you.
@@blahbliff9726 yes the comment was not for you
@@jj-fs2xc I mean yeah. What's the point of riposte if there are just better attacks to use in that opening? The way I see it the range and utility of parries seem to rely on that you can easily follow with a riposte. If you're not going to riposte then some weaponarts are just a lot better option and even viable on enemies that cannot be parried.
Maybe some late game bosses like Malenia or Radagon can be given some slack since their posture bar is basically the size of Mount Everest and parrying their plentiful attacks is just more reliable. But I would not go so far as to call it a standard.
I'm fine with dagger talismans as they are. I still prefer to use crimson dagger on my early game builds or against basic enemies. I suppose it helps me to approach the game more like bloodborne, even though I wish the base mechanic would take me to that direction to begin with. I think ripostes should have a base damage of something like 900 for late game that can be scaled to a fixed % for larger enemies, like 10 or 15 percent of their total hp. You'd be doing similar damage with regular attacks anyways so I don't think buffing riposte would be that big of a deal all considered.
When I first played DS3, I did find the bosses to be difficult but not totally absurd. Pontiff was the first boss that kind of broke me but other than that, the boss designs were unique, fair and felt fun even in both the DLCs. I can't say the same thing for Elden Ring, as much as I enjoyed the open world, the bosses although looking really cool, felt lackluster with stupidly delayed attacks and no openings to dodge. With DS3, I felt like starting NG+ and many more characters almost immediately after beating the game but with Elden Ring, I doubt I'll be going to NG+ anytime soon, the bosses really don't feel memorable except Radahn, Rennala, Mohg, Malekith, Placidusax, Godfrey, Radagon and Elden Beast.
yeah they throw instant moves at you which get you to roll straight away, then they do ridiculous combos that last sometimes 5 or 8 hits long, as well as delayed attacks. its bullshit and theres no real way to tell, even looking at the animations. godskin noble just turns into a fat cunt and rolls around for like a minute, then just stands up midroll does a slash attack, then 1 frame later hes back into the roll animation, no warning or build up, just straight back into it. awful design. fire giant is pure aids as well
My friend was saying that my build sucked and I needed a different weapon. I was just using a banished knight's great sword but the thing is, if I don't use a bleed/poison/frost build, some crazy sorceries, or a totally busted weapon, then my damage output is nothing. That is what I do not like about elden ring.
Fromsoft basically “showed the dog” as one RUclipsr put it as in they did the BIGGEST thing possible and now the quality of all bosses,fights,areas and move sets will forever be a shadow of the previous games glory and I hope they never make a bloodborne 2 if they are doing it the same way they did elden ring
It really is sad! This sold 20+ million copies so I don’t think they will ever go back to the masterpieces they once made. All show and not much substance. I hope I’m wrong though!
Fromsoft died to me after Sekiro
From was smoking smoke crack when they came up with a lot of these boss's movesets. Every goddamn boss has 15 AoEs and one 2 second opening...sometimes.
I remember when I first fought radagon I thought “oh wow, finally a boss where it feels like I’m deliberately dodging his attacks and getting hits in instead of spamming dodge roll until the combos finish, phase 2 probably goes crazy.” Then I got to elden beast and realized it was one of the most boring bosses in the game, not because of its broken attacks or because it’s hard to beat, but because it’s simply boring to fight.
Another thing I noticed when fighting some bosses is that the timing would be different for thr same attack like when I was fighting Margit sometimes he'd be in the air for a few seconds when other times he'd be in the air for over 5 seconds. This interrupts the flow of combat as now I've been punished for dodging a delayed attack he did last attempt cause he no longer delayed it. Have delayed attacks by all means bug don't make them random
Edit: I've just beaten the game and pretty much all the bosses after Morgott were straight up bs. Like I couldn't beat the last 3 main ones without summons cause they suffer all the problems except they can kill me in 1 hit
i didnt really have this problem, instead a boss like radagon would do the same combo just do one move differently and throw me off completely
You shouldn’t be dying in one hit to any bosses (except due to grabs). You’re supposed to level vigor more
didnt have any of these problems, just git gud
I don't like the boss design as well, the game is amazing with the exploration, but there is no more dark souls dance boss battle, it's more like waiting for that one specific boss move to punish or face with their infinite combo chains and huge fucking health pools for every god damn boss in the game, it's like they design every boss assuming players would use the summon, the numbers of damage of hp and damage of the bosses are unbalanced as hell
I feel like radagon was a good boss fight besides when he starts throwing spears when I heal. I actually enjoy that fight
Bloodborne and most of DS1 and 3 felt like you were using the same system as the bosses, but Elden Ring feels like they're in a completely different game. You're slow and small, you have to aim attacks and consider stamina when attacking. Bosses are fast as hell even when they're 10x your size, have endless combos and can spam bullshit instakills and AOE attacks as much as they like.
one of the things that annoyed me was that a lot their attacks have absolutely insane tracking. one attack that comes to mind that someone else brought up is that huge bears grab attack, you can roll around it like 5 times and he'd track you absolutely perfectly, it just feels so unnatural for how big he is, and not to mention how insanely delayed the grab is
@@cotton3399 I once had Morgott do his stab attack in his second form where his sword glows red, I rolled a little off timing, but he still missed me. The game teleported me back to where I was standing before rolling and he insta killed me lol. On my new playthrough, Radagon is the one on some bullshit this time around. His grab attack is completely random because sometimes he charges it and other times he doesn't which makes it almost impossible to read. I've also eventually decided to parry him. I parried one of his attacks and all he did after that was spam magic at me.
You have to consider stamina 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳
@@scottgimple8107 He meant that bosses don't have to consider stamina like they used to in previous games, where there seemed to be a certain mechanic that prevented bosses from simply spamming, making it seem like they also had to consider stamina, which is why he said that in ER the bosses don't play by the same rules and that's why it can feel cheap, and unfair.
What i hate the most is boss attacks that come while you're midway through your own attack animation. Especially if youre running a strength build with slower animations, you simply do not have enough time to react
I just don’t like having to change my play style so often because bosses force me to be passive
Bosses don’t force you to be passive, you just can’t spam roll and win like in ds3.
Elden Ring is a game about positioning, the days dodge and hit are over. The moves that people complain track and they can’t dodge can be solved by just circling around the boss instead while still applying pressure.
Which boss makes u be passive lol?? Other then maybe malenia with her water fowel dance
@@scottgimple8107 disregard this comment i was trash back then i just beat elden ring after coming back a week ago😭 the only boss i could say that made me play less aggressive not passive is maliketh he gave me the most trouble more than malenia
@@alfrednado5926 I feel ya man, I’ve been there too haha
The delayed attacks are not a good thing. You don’t have to have those to punish panic rolling, you just need to make attacks to have different timings while still have animations that makes sense - so that you can actually react to attacks instead of memorizing timing for each single animation
Yeah, Radagon's grab is some utter bullshit because sometimes he charges it and other times he insta grabs you. There is no way to read that lol. I also decided to parry him after a few attempts on my new build just because it makes the fight easier with punishing. I parried one of his attacks, after that he did nothing but spam spells at me.
Elden Ring bosses are all just annoying games of red light green light. The other games were like that too, however in ER it stays mostly red light through the whole fight and rarely turns green light and when it does its for a split second. Not fun at all. The bosses in previous games used to be this fun dance that rewarded you for learning the bosses moves. Not anymore lol.
As a Dark Souls (1, 2 and 3, never played Demon or Sekiro) fan, I have to say, that I liked the bosses in DS3 more than Elden Ring. I'm at the foggate of Malenia right now, so I cannot judge any boss in the game, but I agree with you in all your points, but not in the hard way you do.
The input reading is what bugs me the most and the boss (or that model, cos you fight him many times) you show in your video is where it clicked. Your window to heal seems VERY thin in many chases and you get blasted in the face for an attempt, that seemed save.
Normally I dont use summons, but there was one boss, that is just fucked up. Like totally. Its the Fallingstar Beast in Caelid. There is nothing more to say about that boss in this cave.
Great video and keep up your nice streams :)
I fear that in their search for creating the new hardest game, they will keep making more unfair broken bosses that are just not fun and feel like a chore
Just finished the game a few hour ago, and i'm totally agree with all your points! I could list at least a handful of Bosses that were satisfying to fight legitimately.
My issue is that some bosses have their difficulty based off one move. The most infamous example being Malenia and her 'Waterfowl Dance.' I don't mind fast paced bosses. Just ones with artificial difficulty.
One optional boss being stupid hard does not make the game bad though. If you hate fighting malenia dont fight her, every other boss is pretty fairly made
@@edun4513
This game is junk.
@@edun4513u 50 iq0 lol
I totally agree with you bro, elden ring has the worst enemy desgin since demons
souls.Also the combat mechanics like multiple parry are not well designed. The game is the least enjoyable fromsoftware
game after the first playthrough since demons souls IMO.
Totally agree, I think another problem is that a lot of bosses are repeated and it removes a lot of the novelty of fighting a boss for the first time when you've already seen it. I would've preferred less bosses and fewer repeats.
i dont understand how delayed attacks make you put effort into rolling. all it does is throw off your timing with uncanny animations and forces you to memorize a boss's entire moveset
I hard disagree with the delays. I feel like they making bosses really damn annoying to learn and fight. They could've made the rolls more like demon's souls and ds1 if they didn't want roll spamming.
I also have issues with the bosses in this game. The constant variables you gotta deal with with each attack and the fact that their either braindead easy or annoying af to learn.
Just do what ds2 did. Rolls had end lag.
You are absolutely right. The bosses are the worst since DS2. It takes most of the replayability of the game as exploring isn't that interesting for a second time, if you know what you will get from which area. Even worse is the what I call "filler" side content bosses that you find in catacombs, tunnels, etc. They are pure quantity over quality and quickly stopped me from going into catacombs, etc. at all
yup in my first playthrough i just stop trying to find this random catacombs because they're just boring. ended up visiting the heroes grave instead.
@Solur true dat
DS2's bosses bend over every ER boss. Went from video games to a fucking anime. Looking Glass Knight shits on Godfrey as a fight.
People in this comment section are actually comparing ds2 bosses to elden ring bosses I can't 💀💀💀💀💀💀like how can people be this delusional
@@Oknahidwin Both games are full of cheap unfair bullshit difficulty. The two worst games in the series when it comes to enemy/boss design.
Bosses down-right cheat in this game and are too fast and have way too complex move-sets. The player has no mechanics to deal with this bs. You have to wait forever just to get a hit in and still you risk trading damage with them
the fact that the dlc made this even worse is so funny to me
Elden Ring gotta be one of the most overrated games ever. Just don't say that near a fanboy or he may attack you
Lol only good change I saw was adding I frames to back step.
@@levicarvalho4389the pacing just seems silly, I do like that there is so much versatility but I’m just confused on the motive. I loved sekiro’s pacing a lot
@@levicarvalho4389 I agree. I still can't believe it got more praise than blood and wine. That dlc really revolutionized dlc expansions yet a few added bosses and weapons seem to be better apparently. The reason people ride elden ring so much is to spit on those shitty greedy companies. If elden ring came out when gaming was at it's prime it wouldn't be top 10
@@johnpantag472fr
Glad that you mention it. Videogamedunkey also talk about how the endgame make you feel the same instead of become as powerful as the bosses. Like kirby make you on par with the boss at the endgame but elden ring didn't do that for some reason
Whats the fun in that? If the game just becomes easy by the end its not enjoyable. Games are supposed to either stay the same difficulty or get harder as you go on since you get better the more you play. To be honest in my first time i felt like i was too powerful by the end and i didn’t even use strength, summons, consumables, etc. Just strength and a halberd and learning the game
The biggest problem i have with the game as a whole is how poise and poise damage don't seem to follow any logic, a lot of enemies will get posture broken without ever getting staggered beforehand, meanwhile you can and will get ragdolled by almost any boss regardless of how much poise you have. God i miss being able to hit trade with big guys like Smough, now i can hit a crucible knight with my mightiest attack without him flinching...
I miss the boss fights being like an intense chess match. Remember fighting Artorias and the feeling of beating him or the fume knight. Also loved slave knight Gael fight but that was pushing it to the realms of ridiculous. Elden ring just feels like "who can spam the most powerful charged attacks/spells fast enough" Elden ring just feels like you need to overpower a boss rather previous games where you could out manoeuvre a boss. I am waffling 😂
But it does seems like that's the case. Either you kill them first before they hit you which requires you to be extremely op or rely on the rng gods that they don't spam another unblockable or pull a trick shot out of their a**. It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so tanky to begin with.
It doesn't even feel like bosses delay attacks sometimes. It feels like no matter how or where I roll the attack can still land
you have to use s and roll when he hits you
Samee I didn't get the same rush of adrenaline compared to fighting sekiro bosses, I didn't get a sense of fulfillment after defeating them I just wanted to get over it asap. Tbh I can't even mention who's my favorite boss from this game unlike other fromsoft games that had a lot of iconic boss fights.
When fighting Malekith i genuinely started questioning myself if im just tired of the FromSoft combat cause i was feeling nothing when i beat him. But then i realized i felt nothing cause i beat him by trading hits, since that was the only realiable way i could even damage him. In DS3 i didnt do any of that and i couldve absolutely outskilled bosses without having to google the SPECIFIC patterns i had to take to not take damage.
Glad im not the only one.
Elden Ring gotta be one of the most overrated games ever. Just don't say that near a fanboy or he may attack you
Personally I find that a good boss is one that's not only satisfying to defeat but also fun to lose against.
For example in sekiro two of my favorite bosses are Owl (Father) and Ishin. Even if I lost, the fight was still enjoyable that I wanted to get right back in there because the fight was well balanced and it felt like death was due my error rather than a game mechanic.
In Elden Ring that feeling isn't there. Most deaths I had to bosses, especially late game felt more like the game's fault due to BS mechanics rather than my own so I didn't feel like I was improving but rather I got lucky.
Yeah, Owl is by far the most enjoyable of that kind of fight (the type where losing isn't really frustrating because you're always learning something new). Elden Ring bosses just have goofy ass collision boxes that interfere with you're s to drag you back into attacks that you technically would've dodged otherwise (Ulcerated Tree Spirit) and janky hurtboxes that sometimes will refuse to take damage even when you WATCH your weapon go right through their head/body (Erdtree Avatar, the head of Dragons sometimes, Fallingstar Beasts... dear god). It's fucking bizarre. Never have I seen a From game with such skewed hitboxes and hurtboxes against the player. I don't even know if there is a point in using weapons like the Golden Halberd or the Crescent Moon Axe as their hitboxes seem so fucking tiny that you have to hit in the middle of them to actually deal any damage. But why? Should have greater range/radius on their hitboxes. The fact that most straight swords seem to hit more consistently is a complete failure of the design team.
Dude honestly, Sekiro's bosses were GOATED.
Easily the best set of bosses FromSoftware made.
Owl is such a good fight man, peak Fromsoftware.
The game is made for blood loss and jump attacks, unless u want to deal with the million teleports of certain bosses. Poor degisn
How is spamming delayed attacks as a design choice positive? You have to conciously memorize the patterns instead of reacting to them naturally and instinctively
do you want the game to be piss easy or something? All of the bosses in the games force you to memorize patterns bro
what do you mean?@@meqdadfn
bud, hate to break it to ya but Nameless King is known for he's delayed attacks. That's what anyone ever talks about when facing him.@@meqdadfn
Bruh it the exact same for elden ring bro. This whole convo is just a giant skill issue. This game series is based off trial and error. The only thing you lose is time.@@meqdadfn
@@yoni7046 actual delayed attacks. not attacks that they put their weapon up in the air for a second and then slam the down instantly in a split second
I am more bothered by the endgame mobs than the bosses honestly.
The developers really dropped the ball past the capital.
I never really noticed the endgame mobs being difficult because I just ran past them. Anything that's not a boss in this game drops an insignificant number of runes, so fighting regular mobs is pointless unless you get cornered and have no other choice.
People don't mention the endgame mobs as much as the bosses, since many will just run past them. Says a lot how tedious they are to fight too.
They ONLY dropped the ball PAST leyndell. People act like it sucked from the VERY start. Even good bosses like mohg were ruined. You could give midir a second chance because the boss quality is amazing and you want to revisit it. I think people hate mohg because the bad bosses leave a bad taste in their mouths. It's a shame.
@@doompenguin7453for me, that is one of the worst aspects of Elden Ring. You can't really explore. You just have to run by everything on torrent to avoid giant hordes of enemies. Youre perpetually running around from grace site to grace site.
And given how much lore is attached, they could have added more areas that give you the room to breathe, that offer more lore bits and NPCs than just endless ways of enemies. I get its a hostile world, but 100 hours into the game, it becomes stale and frustrating.
I feel like the motivation to get the Elden Ring is to stop the world from being an apoclyptic wasteland, but even as you take out area bosses, you don't see any improvement in the world. It makes you wonder what the point even is.
After leyndell, bosses can 1 shot your 40 vigor + sorseal char.
The enemy scaling/progression after Leyndell is Volcano Manor/lake of rot. Then mountaintops, then subterranean shunning grounds, then Farum Azula. Which is not intuitive at all, but probably why you’re getting 1 shot
Counterpoint to godskin noble’s expansion attack: the undodgeable part literally does no damage and only serves as a knockaway, and the follow up is telegraphed enough for you to roll through it.
I love the lord, open world and enemy design in general. Combat also has a lot of customization for expression with builds and fighting mobs out in the open world is a blast. The bosses are what I look forward to the least. Especially late game. While margit and Godrick are alot of fun, hell even Rennala is, but after Morgott the bosses just turn into chaotic, messy disasters where I feel like I have to abuse OP items like mimic tear and rivers of blood +10 just to have a fair shot. I had alot of fun with learning Sekiro and even Bloodborne because I had a set play style against each boss and would constantly find new creative ways to fight them. It seems like every boss in elden ring has the same BS. MASSIVE damage, constant AOE, Input reading and obnoxious delayed attacks that force you to only dodge. Like seriously man, at 70 vigor most enemies can two to three shot you. That isn’t fun at all. Fighting an overpowered boss for 30 minutes only to be one shotted by a nigh unavoidable attack is not fun. I think this games detriment is it being so huge. They put so much time into building a massive world that the quality of bosses and enemies suffered. I would rather the game be made up of multiple legacy dungeons like past games with creative bosses that reward multiple
Approaches to combat instead of just timing a dodge right, and less bullshit RNG.
The posture system, and utilizing it to it's full potential, makes the game feel more like Bloodborne or Sekiro in my opinion. Parrys are just one part of that. There are many things you can do with a posture break besides just riposte, and you can make riposting more useful with talismans. In many instances the riposte will also give a chance for another attack. If you never block and have no poise then guard counters aren't useful, and parrys become less useful because one of their main benefits is that you can do them from a defensive position. The fight will have no back and forth if you only prioritize fast health damage.
The posture system is broken in its own way. You can build around it and end up with the same mindless spammy playstyle displayed in this video. When i did this i was posture breaking every mob in the game with one cast of flame of the redmanes and every boss in two casts. Then charge heavy, crit, repeat. It was so broken and not hard to achieve at all. So many weapon arts do insane posture damage, and from range too. It doesn't make sense.
@@huckmart2017 I guess I've found the system to be very strong, but not mindless. For me it was about three high posture damage moves relatively close together for bosses. Two for a big mob (or one parry). Just enough wiggle room that I still had to learn the movesets, but if I did I could win. That said I might not understand the potential of some builds. I could use the physik tear to get the stun in two, but they had to be almost back to back, and I would use that for a bosses second phase. but it didn't feel free because I still needed to pull it off several times. I guess I tried to avoid over levelling, and I didn't use blood, and I kept a medium shield on me all the time, so I never felt like I was just steamrolling the boss in terms of damage. Perhaps partly because of that, getting a lot of stuns just felt like I was controlling the pace of the fight as a reward for good timing and positioning.
Anyway, I don't mean any of this as a refutation of your own experience. I'm also curious about any ways to increas posture damage I might not know about.
@@blahbliff9726 there is isnt too many ways to increase posture damage outright, but certain ashes of war are just insanely overtuned, and if you couple that with crit damage weapons and talismans it gets stupid. Flame of the red manes is the best at this. It does a ton of damage by itself and with the flask you can posture break pretty much every boss with one or two hits. Then for extra safety there are ranged ashes of war like spectral lance that also do a ton of posture damage, so you can spam that at a distance if you dont want to get close.
I might be over selling it though. Its not as broken as bleed/mimic. You still need to be appropriately leveled to take advantage of the posture break so you can actually do damage.
@@huckmart2017 I appreciate the info and the clarification. I definitely think the tuning is not all the way there yet (maybe an understatement) but I do really like the way the combat feels in this game when you get a nice balanced posture focused melee fight. I basically had so much fun on my second playthrough Malenia fight that I've been evangelizing about it.
Meaning you must play with a shield
Its just annoying that the combat design they went for was reminiscent of Dark Souls rather than the games more suited for the boss design like Bloodborne and Sekiro. If you're going to have aggressive bosses with unfair attacks, you should have a combat system that is AS aggressive.
Dude seriously this is why people resorted to status builds because it's the only way to get in enough damage
Elden ring is my first from software game and even if if I had not use bleed in all the "main path/story" I don't feel like I have become better at the game, the only boss that made me feel good at the game was Mohg, but all the other bosses, like Maliketh (including phase 1 and phase 2) just made me learn that the only way to have success without being lucky that the boss doesn't do his bullshit attack or combo was summoning.
My initial goal in this game was to became something good due to his more accessibility so I could play the other from software games with a solid base to begin with, but it ended that I'm still scared as hell from the other games.
Sorry, but I'm very bad at speaking/writing english
I think that you would like Sekiro or Dark Souls 3 a lot considering the way you approached Elden Ring. Sekiro in particular is difficult, but is also extremely well balanced and every move a boss does is counterable in some way. I highly encourage you to try Sekiro.
@@doompenguin7453 Thanks for the advise, but I have a bad reaction time so sekiro and bloodborne scare me more than dark souls 3, so I think I'll play it first.
For exemple, when I see slave knight Gael moveset I understand It, but if I see the orphan of kos ( which is very fast even for bloodborne ) I see only incredibly speed attacks that are kinda similar and I don't understand well the moveset, maybe the combat sistem also gives you more flexibility and speed so I simply don't understand the mechanics
Dark souls 3 has the overall best boss roster in my opinion. Especially in the endgame.
@@PrimalZenodon t worry, orphan of kos i would say us godfrey Level difficulty, he has 1 or 2 bull shit Attacks and long comboes but generaly as soon as you dodge 1 time to his back 2 things could happen: 1 he could continue the combo without hitting you, giving you time to Attack or 2 simply stop and do a Quick turn wich isn t an Attack. In phase 2 he gets a bit more aggressive but the biggest problem are his bombs and lightning. This last one is almost unavoidable if you want to remains focused on the boss with lockon. As for ds3 yes it is the best starting game, has the best bosses EXTREMELY Fun and difficult At the same time Like the dancer, GAEL, name less King, abyss watchers and the dancer or even pontiff. I would say the biggest Challenge in bloodborne is killing Blood starvee beast
Couldn't have said it better. Totally forgettable bosses. I realised too that I don't 'know' the soundtrack either, which is usually a positive byproduct of Fromsoft boss fights, epic boss themes memorised by repetition as you learn the fight. This time, like you, it was a matter of cheesing through the fight asap so I could move on. I reached the elden beast fight and after one too many running simulator attempts, have put the game down and moved on. I just can't be bothered to fight him.
Aside from Radagon, I would have to agree that I don't remember any of the boss themes from ER. While I think part of it is that the default music volume is lower than previous games, I also think that the soundtrack was a lot more generic, maybe owing to the sheer volume of bosses (even if 95% of them were just repeats).
DS3, on the other hand, I can nearly instantly pick out every single boss theme. While ER was a good game overall, I think it is also a great example of how much more polished the experience can be with a more linear/limited game (like all of the previous Fromsoft titles)
Elden Beast is the least enjoyable final boss of any game I think I've ever played. It's like a bad MMO raid boss, designed to waste as much of the player's time as possible between its massive health pool/defense and that it constantly runs away from you. At least the stupid final boss of Demon's souls was funny.
@@crafty_mattif I had to least of memorable tracks
Godrick-Both Phases
Hoarah Loux
radagon
Elden Beast
Radahn - Phase 2
Placidesseux (Keep forgetting the name)
But otherwise Bloodborne takes. My personal goated tracks
Edit: ngl my list is mad short there’s so much I could put on after playing again
I know half of all Ost. Isnt bad if you take to Account how many Ost it has. Sekiro i dont even know one. All Sound like flute. Ds3 all same besides pling pling plong and ds1 just boring
I only really enjoyed the Godskin Duo theme and Mohg's theme. All the others felt kinda generic in terms of chorus or atmosphere.
Roll spam didn't ever save you in dark souls 3. What saved you is knowing how long this attack takes to wind up and knowing that rolling twice as soon as the attack starts will land you perfectly inside the i-frames. Try actually roll spamming dancer, lothric, nameless king or gael and see where it gets you.
Elden Ring's boss attacks are always a tinge longer now and give you false tells just to fuck with your anticipation.
Elden ring's combos are DESIGNED to catch you with a fast and nasty attack right after a perfect initial dodge. You can get the i-frames smack-dab perfect, only to run right into an attack MEANT to catch you out. This has nothing to do with long wind-ups which you can memorize. It's straight up unfair as there is NOTHING you can do to react to it. Elden ring makes items and stats a necessity to a degree never seen in other souls games and has the audacity to punish good players for perfect dodging. Speedrunners have to rely entirely on broken weapons and cheesy strats to counter these ridiculous boss combos now whereas a +10 raw weapon with a good moveset was absolutely enough for them to beat the game since skill and knowledge counted for much more.
It also doesn't help when some bosses break the game's own rules of its mechanics, looking at you Malenia
Damn, that bleed build of yorus trivialises the bosses - makes you wonder why the game bothers having them at all if you can just basically hit delete on them with the right build? Talk about incredibly busted design! I have no problem summoning an OP mimic to deal with these bosses and get through them, the DLC ones being the latests, because they're just not fun or engaging fights, not like in Sekiro or even Bloodborne, where the challenge is tense but fair. I sincerely hope From's next game doesn't make these same mistakes as in Elden Ring.
I agree with pretty much everything in this video. The exploring is fun and feels magical at times but the bossfights do not make me feel exited like in other games. They feel more annoying and something to just "get over with" to get back to what is the real game. I don't know how else to put it. Add the confusing camera in jumping boss fights as another challenge.
You completely took me out when you said that Godskin Noble attack is unreactable. I am watching the same footage as you, it is definitely reactable. Of all the things to complain about on Godskin Noble you pick that lmao
There are many enemie attacks I can dodge, noble's presence is not one of them, but he goes down fast anyways.
@@facundovera3227 Yeah. Noble's presence is unreasonable to react, but the attack that he showed wasn't that it doesn't even do damage and to top it off he doges the fucking attack anyways.
That stupid fucking roll made me quit the game, lol. The fact that the guy can literally roll cancel for half a second, swing at you, then go back into the roll instantly after is so stupid. If the fat one didn't have that roll, it'd be a fight that was 10x better and much more enjoyable tbr
I don't mind delaying attacks, they just need the attack to be a little bit slower so we know when to dodge and not have it come instantly at a random time
Preach! There wasn't a time playing ER and Erdtree without thinking that I could have just played DS3 or BB again... Erdtree took everything hateable in ER and tripled the awfulness level.
10000%. I am so sick of dealing with this bullshit. And I absolutely WILL criticize the stupid fucking delayed attacks. Here is what I am noticing as I try to take the game seriously:
1. EVERY. SINGLE. ENEMY. Has some sort of delay attack, just about. Often multiple ones. This is doubly true for bosses. It is literally infuriating.
2, The bosses flat out switch their attack patterns when you start doing well. Case in point: Crucible Knight. 10-15 attempts and I know his patterns right? WRONG, because once I successfully start dodging every attack he throws at me, suddenly he breaks his ESTABLISHED PATTERNS at chains more and more attacks. It's absolutely fucking bullshit, and it punishes what previous souls games rewarded.
I am about to uninstall this dumpsterfire of a game. I regret spending money on it.
I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think Godrick's Storm Assault is unreacteable. Does my PC just run more consistent 60FPS than most people's? That's the only explanation I can imagine.
It's just a little annoying to me, I wont complain about it tho, I think Godrick is one of the best bosses in ER, even if he is very easy, not every boss has to be super hard to be a good boss. Godrick knows his place and does his part very well.
Delayed attacks on their own are a good thing but delayed and non-delayed attacks with the same cue are just cheating. That's no better than just randomly taking health off the player. Also, while I don't mind the timing, I *do* mind the excessive tracking (and input reading). Ever since Dark Souls 1, it feels like they've been trying to eliminate positioning as a defensive option. At this point they may as well just remove rolling and have the dodge button make you incorporeal for your i-frames.
What's the music that plays during the second half of this video?
I fought all the side and main bosses and found no problem with them. The only boss i hate with a passion is the FINAL BOSS. Such a shitty way to end a game. Legit would never bother with ng+ because of this
Elden beast and radagon is 1000 times the worst final boss. I've never had a fight less enjoyable than that pair of spam happy clowns
Elden ring has shit boss design, every souls game I wanted to go to the boss and find out what I did wrong and study their combo, bit elden rings bosses are terrible they made it when the damn AI choose what to do instead of have there own true combo like godfrey did the same move three times before and of course it was the thing where he literally picks up the fucking arena, me and my friends would try to fight the bosses and we experimented with the boss and the boss sat there until we did something and when of us healed the boss targeted the dude that healed and did the fastes move they had, boss fights are the 95% fail in this game
I have beaten Elden Ring 10 times. I agree with a majority of the points in this video and agree with its overall point. Dark Souls 3 has far better boss design than this game does. I still love this game despite this problem. In my most recent playthrough, I've created a sort of tank build that's slow but capable of taking and dealing a good amount of damage. With how many chained combos there are, how little openings exist, my most consistently succesful strat is to just take hits than smack them in return. It's not engaging at all but it is easy. I miss the feeling of DS 3 when I'd succesfully dodge an attack then land a good chunk of hits on the opponent. Not that those moments are absent in Elden Ring, but there far more rare.
10 times? You okay bro? Done anything else since release?
@@Marshall97531 yeah, I just drink so much coffee that I don’t sleep much. Not much else to do at 2 in the morning ya know?
I'm now at Maliketh and I use a colossal weapon, and I literally can't get any hits in without getting punished. There's maybe one attack pattern where I can attack him without getting damage myself. Now I'm forced to either completely change my build or to level my spirit tuning--something I was hoping to avoid because it just sounds like an easy mode to me. But I have no choice. I haven't used a single summon in any other Souls game because I WANTED to overcome the challenge by myself, because each time I died in those games I KNEW it was my own fault. With Elden Ring it's the exact opposite. I don't give a shit about any of the boss fights and just want to get them over with, because so far each boss fight just feels...unfair. This wasn't so apparent until I reached Morgott. At that point I feel like they didn't test the subsequent boss fights at all.
Now I'm just going to level my Mimic Tear Ashes just so I can have a chance. And I don't even feel bad about it, because the bosses are cheating bastards anyway.
Honestly the only thing I hate is duo bosses, like I’ve hated every single one I’ve experienced, even ornstein and smough while I’m glad they we a proper duo fight I still hate them and never want to fight them again.
Elden Ring was meant to be a change of pace from Dark Souls 3. Many of the AoEs and attacks that feel like they come out of nowhere aren't unfair they're meant to be a lesson in positioning. Dark Souls 3 and other Fromsoftware have very few attacks that require understanding of positioning and Elden Ring never really explicitly states how important positioning is, but it shouldn't have to. The point is to try something new until you have a consistent method of dealing with an attack. As for Elden Ring being the easiest the point is that its self imposed difficulty. You dont have to use summons, bleed, or power stance ultra greatswords. You can choose whatever playstyle let's you have the most fun. The added resources to make the game easier just add to the accessibility of the game and allow a wider audience to enjoy it. The game is also intentionally more aggressive than the past games because it provides a change from their other titles. I don't want them to release Dark Souls 3 six more times I want to go into each game and have them feel different so it's actually a new experience which in turn adds to the replayability of all their titles.
Also the fact that most of the bosses spam one ability back to back often
Elden Ring was my first Souls Game, after it I directly played Dark Souls 3 and my friend told me that it is way more difficult. I cant count how many bosses I one shotet because they actually were well designed and not fucking annoying. DS3 bosses are the best in my opinion. But my favourite Boss by FAR is Artorias from DS1. I struggled a lot with him but I loved every fight, such a beautiful boss.
No sense of achievement with any bosses. Mostly relief.
Delayed attacks are cancer as well, in ds3 you had basically only nameless king and gael do these kind of attacks and it made their moveset feel powerful and unique. From realised people struggled with that and overused these attacks, making every single boss lift his weapon up in the air for 20 seconds and stand around like a fucking idiot before finally swinging. It may be challenging, but it’s also boring, repetitive and just annoying.
skill issue fr
@@kinin4400nah
Also this is one of the best videos I've seen on your channel. Thumbnail, video itself and everything else is fucking PEAK
What music is at 5:00? Idk if it’s from Elden Ring because I got too burnt out on it but this sounds amazing
Rennala, Queen of the Full Moon by Yuka Kitamura. Best track in the game by far and probably my favourite FromSoft game track.
@@doompenguin7453 Thank you! I quit just before Rennala, this is tempting me back into it. It has a very ethereal but mournful tone I love it. Great video by the way. I won’t lie seeing a lot of the boss problems has what’s mostly put me off playing more. Back to Bloodborne to replay for the billionth time for me :)
Midir from DS3 has this same issue. Flying around the map, never being able to hit them. Just waiting, waiting, to get a few hits in that barely tick at their health bar. It's one of the issues I hate the dragons and the Elden Beast in Elden Ring. You would have thought FromSofts team would have learned from Midir, how unfun it was, but no.
One thing i hated about bosses is that grab attacks are so pathetic in elden ring its like a pillow just slapped the eiffel tower
I remember beating Friede... Or Isshin, hell even Inner Isshin! The mortal journey gauntlet... And of course Orphan of Kos! Or even earlier bosses like Gascoigne! The Abyss Watchers, Pontiff, Manus and OnS. Not a single boss in Elden Ring was so exciting to fight. I don't even know why at this point. I very distinctly remember audibly saying to the screen, when Malenia transformed: "Oh come on! Not another one..."
In this game, some bosses I do like. But not for their actual fight, rather their visual design and the impact it has when you first see them. But that faded away rather quickly and then I really didn't want to fight most of them. Some of these bosses straight up don't belong here. I'm sorry, but Malenia is a Sekiro boss that got rejected because she wasn't japanese enough, Astel comes straight outta Bloodborne and what ever the fuck Elden Beast is, I know it's one thing and that is not a boss anyone wanted to see what so ever. And you know what Malenia? Take Maliketh with you on the way out. And that's the thing and I shit you not, at times my muscle memory from other games just kicked in because of how unfit these things were in this game. You're essentially playing Dark Souls, but the bosses are playing whatever they want and if that happens to be a game ten times faster paced than DS? Well, fuck you then.
just gotta say that while I really enjoy diving into this game, when I think back, theres very few boss encounters that give me that feeling of excitement like in the other FromSoft games. It feels more like a "oh for fuck sake, ok lets get this done" type of feeling. I know its a "git gud" type of situation, but in the older games I could "git gud" on most of the bosses by myself without feeling like I had to do homework to study up on some of the bullshit they put you through
I think I mostly agree with this video. However, I do want to preface this by saying that Elden Ring probably has the best & deepest battle system among all Soulsbourne games. It’s mainly just that the bosses were not well calibrated to what the player character can do.
I think the bosses were over-tuned to deal with the fact that players can carry several healing flasks and use summons to draw aggro to cheese the bosses.
To this end, here is what I think should be done to fix the issues.
-Incorporate the Attack Cancel Mod (found in a video on RUclips). This lets players cancel a lot of the cooldown frames of attacks, although they still have to commit to the start-up & active frames. This allows players to better keep up with the increased aggression of bosses.
-Reduce damage from all enemy attacks by half. This would make 1-hit KOs a lot less common, which would make healing comparatively more valuable, since healing doesn’t matter in cases where enemy attacks KO in one hit.
-On the other hand, reduce the carrying capacity of Flask of Crimson Tears to only one. In conjunction with half enemy damage output, this would make marginal increases to player HP from leveling up a lot more comparatively valuable - instead of mainly only mattering when it makes the difference between 1 & 2-hit KOs, even increasing HP enough to go from say 3-hit to 4-hit KOs will also matter to a fair degree. And players should still be able to regenerate this flask by killing groups of enemies.
-Eliminate the Flask of Cerulean Tears and replace with the ability of players to regenerate 1 or 2 FP each time they hit an enemy with a regular weapon attack. A good side effect of this would be that it would encourage players to engage multiple enemies at once wherever safely possible and could balance out the risk of engaging multiple enemies at once.
Interestingly enough, the changes I’ve proposed would likely also make healing magic comparatively more valuable.
-Finally, remove the ability of summons (except for possibly the Greatshield Soldier Ashes) to draw aggro and replace summon healthbars with time limits. My idea here is to add an additional player stat called Spirit, which would be tied to max Summon Points (SP), and which players could invest in contention with other stats. A player would summon and the summoned being would be invincible, but player SP would slowly drain over time, and the summon would exit battle when SP reaches zero or when the player chooses to dismiss the summon (note that the SP cost over time would be a replacement for a fixed HP or FP cost). To regenerate SP, players could hit enemies with regular weapon attacks, spells, or Ashes of War when a summon is not active.
The important thing here is that summons would be kept, but their value wouldn’t really come from drawing aggro, but rather from using effects with various utilities (ex. close-range knockdowns, long-range shooting, healing, blocking, etc.) and synergizing with character attacks in interesting & varied ways. This would also give players a lot more flexibility to switch out summons mid-battle and increase the diversity of utility effects used.
I think if these suggestions were followed, Elden Ring would be a much more balanced game, and boss fights would be a lot better.
Big agree and your editing has gotten a lot better, great video.
More than a year later and this guy stands by his point saying the bosses in ER are not fun 😢 I really thought he would change his opinion once he got gud 😅
Gud or not, bosses are just not fun. I was not gud when I played DS3 for the first time, but I had fun fighting the bosses.
Also, when I made this video, I could easily stomp all the ER bosses, so I was already gud enough.
@@doompenguin7453 happy new year 🎉
idk man the way you were fighting Maliketh was pretty bad but your cheesy build was hard carrying you. The argument of critical attacks dealing less damage than jumping attacks is misleading because of your build too. Either if you looked it up online or accidentally ended up using it it has screwed up your perception and the way you engaged with bosses.
With so many people (myself included) coming up with different builds and playing decent it makes me feel like the bosses mechanics might be too hard for you and it's ok.
I'm not trying to change anything and I guess this video is important so people who are not having fun have a place to vent their frustration in the comments.
I guess you're not planning on playing the DLC right? 😅
@@victorprati7908 I was making a point. I said that enemies run around a lot and that you can cheese them with no skill, which I was demonstrating. I could have no-hit him, but then you would say that my complaints are irrelevant because I literally showed that you can beat the boss without getting hit.
I'll play the DLC because I'm a FromSoft simp and will eat up anything they release. My point is that ER has bad design COMPARED to other From games, not bad in general. ER being the worst and least fun game From has made doesn't mean it's Starfield levels of bad, it's still one of the better games out there.
@@doompenguin7453u only showed parts where u land hits not the whole fight and claim u gud? And u use mimic often it seems 🥱🥱🥱. Try post some full fights to show proof u gud enough now 😂
What weapon are you using
The real skill in ER is mastering the spreadsheet rather than anything mechanically challenging. It is the ultimate streamer game for endless amounts of shitty and low effort content.
finally someone said it with evidence
Honestly is kinda sad seeing how they nailed boss fights in ds3 and even improved on it in Sekiro just to fuck up the balance in Elden Ring; like, boss fights in ds1, ds3, Bb and even ds2 were fun and challenging but fair and balanced meanwhile boss fights in Elden Ring aren't fun most of the time, they feel unfair and if you are not using a specific build or item or whatever they feel less like a challenge and more like a "fuck you" to the playe smh.
I just got done with Bloodborne NG+ and couldn't agree more. When you fight Kos, (for example), it is literally the most satisfying thing ever when you beat him. There's no cheese needed, nor is there bullsheet. There is good timing, and equal parts offense and defense. With Elden Ring, I felt like all the bosses are just, "dodge, dodge, dodge, wait, POKE, repeat". It's just so tedious. And the bosses all do so much damage that if you didn't waste a ton in vigor you may as well just quit. I haven't touched the game since May because I came to realize this at some point.
5:30 Hold on, brother, hold on, is that a 99 arcane build I see there? With double sepukku?
I get the point you're trying to make, but the vast majority of bleed users in this game are not running around with builds like that.😂
Well, I was running around with one of the most broken builds in the game to make a point, yes. I could have just as easily used ROB spam.
@doompenguin7453 Yeah, but who's going to be fighting margit and Godrick with 99 arcane and double seppuku locked and loaded? Not many players, if any.
@@menacetosociety6825 Well, this is NG+5.
I discovered FromSoft games only recently. Loved every second of DS1 and 3, and even learned to appreciate DS2.
But I absolutely hate Elden Ring. In over fifty hours I can't honestly say I've had... any fun.
It's not about the difficulty, it's just... unpleasant to play.
Honestly this is where I'm at. I adore 1; it feels like how Elden Ring's world exploration makes me feel, but I enjoy 1 a little more because of all the fun side alleys to take from one area into another.
Meanwhile Bloodborne and Sekiro hooked me in with their combat and worlds that immersed me in their aesthetics and lore.
3 and Demon's made frustrated me more than the others, but they still drew me back in consistently and made me want to play more.
2 was so interesting and also gives me hints of that exploration that I adore in 1 since I don't know 2's world as well, plus the magic systems are so fun to try and figure, but the game mostly irritates me while leaving me appreciating the good while preferring not to play it so I don't have to experience the bad.
Then there's Elden Ring. Which is a good game, and my friend keeps trying to convince me it's just me being hypocritical, but some of the things in this game feel even more insanely bad than the things I complain about in other From games.
Grab attacks have and will always be bad (except for Sekiro, which I think made them feel more fair despite the still wonky hit boxes only because of the new warnings for moves that can't be parried), but they feel unavoidable and overly punishing in this game. I know I'm a squishier mage, but I shouldn't be instantly dying to grab attacks when I have closer to 40 vigor. Half to 75% of my health? Sure, that's fair punishment for the big windup supposed to be slower grab attacks, but not 100% consistently unless I have like 90 vigor and heavy armor. Plus they've been sped way the hell up. Wonky hit boxes, plus little to no wind up, plus almost guaranteed one-shot makes every grab in this game feel unfair.
Then there's the issue that no enemy in this game seems to have any sort of stamina-like mechanic to how many attacks/combos they can perform or any sort of limit to how many hits in/times they can perform a combo before you get an opening. It just sucks to even attempt to hit anything physically.
And the list goes on and on and on and it just ruins Elden Ring for me and I'm happy to know it's not just me being negative like I can be.
awesome evidence. every fan boi can’t accept the fact that the bosses are just unfair sponges and that the best option is to simply cheese build and smash attacks. no plan. no thought. no strategy. the git gud lie has been absolutely exposed with your video. the solutions to the fights are trivial and childish. but still the goty is a nice pat in the back for fanboys. lol i love how you smashed the artificial difficult pedestal. awesome video. subbed for honesty.
I have basically 3 complaints about Elden Ring bosses:
- too many AoE and long tracking attacks that are nearly impossible to avoid - I think this is self-explanatory
- hyper-aggressive bosses combined with seemingly never-ending combo chains - basically, this gives you not ability to react or counter
- half the bosses seem to have either very high lock-on points of seem to have a pogo stick up their ass - look, I should be fighting a boss, and not the camera, but in those situations, camera becomes a secondary boss at times.
Generally, I had to cheese far more bosses than I'd like.
I suppose they made the bosses this way to compensate for spirit summons being the thing - giving most bosses ability to handle multiple opponents at the same time. But it does not translate that well when you actually try and solo a lot of the bosses.
Basically - if you run light/medium armour - you need pixel perfect precision at times, because most of the bosses can poise and stamina break you in seconds AND keep on going, effectively stunlocking you. Godskin Noble's roll for example - it is basically near-unavoidable rolling skeleton wheel, 5 times the size with a hitbox that also messes up your camera.
Plenty of times I felt my only ways of dealing with some bosses reasonably was to either exploit the hell out of bleed or frost, poise tank and stagger with heaviest beating stick I could muster, or cheese with sorcery spam. Actual use of skill was not worth the effort.
The worst part - it extends to some of the field bosses and semi-regular enemies.
Misbegoten warriors - the boss versions are a good example of what I mentioned above - I usually roll in medium armour, enjoying straight sword builds with some support sorceries or miracle to boot. But I feel like most of the things in the game hard-counter this. Shield hits drain your stamina, dodges do as well, because he constantly comboes and your window to attack is slim.
And sorceries also do not work very well, because... they are so fast they can close the gap in less than a second.
But the second I whipped out a greatshield and a zweihander, this battle became a joke - dude was constantly staggered, and every time I ended a combo, I just blocked - he bounced off the greatshield, giving me time to regen stamina and go again.
It went from quick wipe to zero-hit fight, and this is kind of messed up.
And don't talk to me about memorising patterns - some bosses have literal dozens of possible attack. I think Radahn alone has like 40 or something around that.
There are alot of bosses I enjoy but I notice the further I get the more poorly designed they get from input reading me EVERY time I heal or just not giving a proper window for attack it just feels like gambling to me at this point is the boss gunna be super aggro and not give me a single chance or are they gunna stand there and let me destroy them most fights feel like they come down to dumb luck like maliketh is the worst designed boss I've ever faced in my life 0 consistency
I feel like most of the bosses wouldn't be hated as much if the game didn't do such a horrible job at teaching the player how to actually play the game.
Elden Ring wants you to be aggressive but it ends up teaching you the exact opposite most of the time.
Malenia is a good example of this. I don't think Malenia is necessarily a bad boss but my most of my deaths to her mainly happened not because of her being hard but because the game was teaching me to play passively.
The endless boss combos give off this mindset that you have to play passive rather than aggressive. It's very clear the game is all about the stagger system.
They should've done what they did with Sekiro. In Sekiro, there was a character named Hanbei to teach you and give you basic training on the game's mechanics.
When the bosses are faster, stronger, tougher, and often smarter than you can ever be, what can you do but bash your face against it for hours and hope for good RNG?
to get gud
I just killed elden beast and that boss fight left a lingering unpleasant taste after I was done, that SINGLE boss fight alone made me not wanna have another playthrough since I’ve also 100% explored everything and did all quests there’s little reason to play again
Yeah, this game doesn't have as much reaplayability as one may think initially. Once you explore everything, you realise that all the optional dungeons are not really interesting or fun to play through, so it's pointless to do these dungeons on NG+.
"Delays there attacks" not panick rolling, even regular rolling, spot on well said,
The combat feels jelly, unresponsive,input delay on button press.
Best regards, both illusionary rings.