The Borgias of History - Renaissance Studies
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- Alexander had widespread public support, and was capable, diplomatic and skilled, as well as rich, hedonistic and concerned with ostentatious displays. While Alexander at first tried to keep his role separate from family, his children soon benefited from his election, and received huge wealth; Cesare became a cardinal in 1493.. Relatives arrived in Rome and were rewarded and the Borgais were soon endemic in Italy. While many other Popes had been nepotists, Alexander was promoting his own children and had a range of mistresses, something that further fuelled a growing and negative reputation. At this point some of the Borgia children also began to cause problems, as they annoyed their new families, and at one point Alexander appears to have threatened to excommunicate a mistress for returning to her husband.
Alexander soon had to navigate a way through the warring states and families which surrounded him, and at first he tried negotiation, including the marriage of a twelve year old Lucrezia to Giovanni Sforza. He had some success with dipomacy, but it was short lived. Meanwhile Lucrezia's husband proved a poor soldier, and he fled in opposition to the pope, who then had him divorced. We don't know why he fled, but accounts claim he believed rumours of incest between Alexander and Lucrezia that persist to this day.Alexander looked at the condition of the Papal States, left in disarray after the first French invasion, and decided military action was needed. He thus ordered Cesare, who was in Milan with his army, to pacify large areas of central Italy for the Borgias. Cesare had early success, although when his large French contingent returned to France he needed a new army and returned to Rome. Cesare seemed to have control over his father now, and people after papal appointments and acts found it more profitable to seek out the son instead of Alexander. Cesare also became Captain-General of the churches armies, and a dominant figure in central Italy. Lucrezia's husband was also killed, possibly on the orders of an angry Cesare, who also was rumoured to be acting against those who badmouthed him in Rome by assassinations. Murder was common in Rome, and many of the unsolved deaths were attributed to the Borgias, and usually Cesare.
With a substantial war chest from Alexander, Cesare conquered., and at one point marched to remove Naples from the control of the dynasty who had given the Borgias their start. When Alexander went south to oversee the division of land, Lucrezia was left behind in Rome as regent. The Borgia family gained great amounts of land in the Papal States, which were now concentrated in the hands of one family more than ever before, and Lucrezia was packed off to marry Alfonso d'Este to secure a flank of Cesare's conquests.
The Fall of the Borgias
As the alliance with France now seemed to be holding Cesare back, plans were made, deals struck, wealth acquired and enemies murdered to take a change of direction, but in mid-1503 Alexander died of malaria. Cesare found his benefactor gone, his realm not yet consolidated, large foreign armies in the north and south, and himself also deeply ill. Furthermore, with Cesare weak, his enemies rushed back from exile to threaten his lands, and when Cesare failed to coerce the papal conclave he retreated from Rome. He persuaded the new pope to re-admit him safely, but that pontiff died after twenty six days and Cesare had to flee. He supported a great Borgia rival, Cardinal della Rovere, as Pope Julius III, but with his lands conquered and his diplomacy rebuffed an annoyed Julius arrested Cesare. Borgias were now thrown out of their positions, or forced into keeping quiet. Developments allowed Cesare to be released, and he went to Naples, but he was arrested by Ferdinand of Aragon and locked up again. Cesare did escape after two years, but was killed in a skirmish in 1507. He was just 31. europeanhistory...
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Pope Alexander was not so different than many other popes, and the other Borgia namely Cesare and Juan participated in the same aristocratic decadence that most nobles were consumed in at that time....... The Cardinals who scorned the name Borgia were hypocrites, guilty of the same crimes they accuse!
Julius Cheeser This is very true. Much of the most notorious slander that evolves around the Borgia family are the product of slanderous propaganda that was articulated by a pope that came after him, Pius III. Juan was actually Gioffre Borgia, but they chose to name him Juan in the series to perpetuate and underline the Spanish heritage, because at the time there were real tensions between France and Spain that make for a much better story to tell.
Stories have their historical use, they really do but at the end of the day we have to make the distinction between rumor, conjecture and uncritical thinking as opposed to critical thinking and studying historical sources and their reasoning behind creating something that people at a later age were meant to read.
Series like the Borgias, Rome, Spartacus and VIkings take big liberties with historical accuracy for the sake of dramatic effect, it's not a bad thing because it inspires interest in the era so people may investigate historical sources that exist of the time, to get as close as they can to what may have actually happened, instead that what we want to believe has happened.
+Julius Cheeser For real. Most peasants, such as myself, don't understand the level of decadence in positions like that.
Stephen Richards thank you!
Stephen Richards right? the borgias were just normal people for that time, perhaps a bit more ruthless than most, but being outsiders (not italian) they were surrounded by enemies, if they weren't ruthless they would have probably been killed off and we wouldn't even know of them today.
The Fweepo you said it,smelly peasant
Ceasar Borgia maybe treacherous, but he was a mastermind genius.
He was the Machiavelli's 'prince' I think, so he was behaving as a senior politician at the time Italy was torn apart between emirates and kingdoms, and it was all about how to keep territories secured.
He was great. He was an upper greater narcissist like his namesake Julius, and so did have oodles of charisma, which no doubt propelled him forward in terms of achieving lofty ambitions. He was just unfortunate at the end, and after a meteoric rise, Cesare had just as big a drop off. He was known as the most handsome man of his time and so the effects of longterm effects of Syphilis on his looks must have had as big an effect on the mans morale (being a somatic narcissist) just as much as the loss of his lands, revenue and titles no doubt, all which contributed to which I believe was basically a suicide by proxy.
Where is the part where Cesare became the image of Christ, I want to use this for my presentation
He failed to mention it. 😂😂😂
It's actually a painting from Leonardo DaVinci ,click bait! It was a woman.
Makaveli's The Prince too.
@@thomasoneill5877 no...Leonardo davinci and CESARE were lovers...which is why he became the image of christ .
@@WelcomeToThe92503 Oh ya ? Did you see that on showtimes "The Borgia's?!
They were only as evil as their enemies made them. Cesare was hated before he was born
How can one be hated before they are born
Exactly. Thank you. History is made by those who win. The Borgias left Italy after that generation and came back to Spain.
Tireo.... Is a good teacher on that!!!!!
Alexander VI has had an unfairly bad press. Sure he was nepotistical, but given the vicious nature of italian power politics (still can be even today,) nepotistical popes felt the only people they could rely on were their own family. Theologically conservative, yes he was attempting to create a permanent Borgia dynasty in italy but he did NOT always act purely in the interests of his family, but for what he saw as the greater good of the papal state.
I think that precisely because he was a foreigner, he could take the long view, and saw that Italy's weakness was its disunity and his ultimate aim was to unite Italy under one ruler. If so, he was centuries ahead of his time. He also offered sanctuary to Jews fleeing persecution, and skilfully protected the people of Rome from sack at the hands of Charles VIII, using purely diplomatic means and he rigorously enforced law and order on the streets for the protection of the common people (they loved him.)
He also subverted the power of the Roman barons -which was precisely why he was so hated. He preferred discussion with heretics rather than persecution. Sure he used dubious means, but in fifteenth century Italy you couldn't do anything by wearing kid gloves.
Spot on!
You can't judge him without taking the context into consideration. Even more so, I think the Borgia weren't so different from the other Nobel families, especially the Italian nobles. AS you said, the reason he was so hated was because of how he disrupted their power - where before then the Orsini and Colona had virtually free reign over Rome and themselves stocked the Vatican with many of the ilk.. so it's hypocritical of them to point to Nepotism.... which was anything but rare at the time...
honcan69 Those were rumors... any evidence?
Contemporary Historians and scholars did not write much ill of the Borgia, at least not an overly unusual amount compared to other Popes such as Sixtus IV and Innocent X. Almost all negative references come from their enemies... you don't find that suspicious?
Lets not forget the smear campaign from Pope Julius II immediately after tricking Cesare Borgia. There is little evidence of disdain and enmity between Cardinals Borgia and Della Rovere. In fact, they frequently worked with each other for long periods of time without incident and both spoke highly of each other. While they were rivals, many historians assert that the degree of their enmity was greatly exaggerate by popular culture and historical revisionism.
Della Rovere's wrath upon Ascension to the Papacy could simply be explained away by the fact that he was routinely out-manuevered and stumped by both Rodrgio Borgia and Cesare for what... 30 years??? With a man of his diligence, determination and ego it only makes sense.
splinterbyrd what do you think?
honcan69 W/e. The point remains, there is no evidence that they actually committed incest. Rumors were abound for nearly every Pope and every King/Queen.
honcan69 Furthermore, you don't find it suspicious that historians across the board are generally quick to defend the Borgia and say they were given an exaggerated reputation?
17:50 - Strictly speaking the wife of the rightful Duke Gian Galeazzo Sforza of Milan (Isabella d'Aragona) was the granddaughter of King Ferrante of Naples and not his daughter. She was actually the daughter of The Neapolitan king's son, Prince Alfonso of Calabria. Sorry, am a stickler for accuracy.
Truth
And thus, the Mafia was born
I'm related to the Borgias
Finaly Dishonored cuz Alfonso d'estes married lucrazia Borgia
alexonehurszzddfghjkl
Finaly Dishonored nah I I live in the UK now I was born Chicago
Gerald/Sheila Mitchell yeqh?!
alexonehurst why would you brag about that?
what happened to Jeoffery in the Netflix version with Jeromy Irons? They just never mention him after marriage yet the entire family was engulfed in scandal? weird
Shannon lynch kllhhjj
Qwaa is a exerrsfffgfgfhhjbm,n
Gerald/Sheila Mitchell umm what does that mean?
He visited from time to time. Though yes, he was very rarely, if at all, mentioned. I wish Netflix would pick up those rights and finish this damn series as it was meant to 😭😠😤
He was only twelve. Had not Had a lot of life experience like Barron TRUMP is treated.
Their character is building.
the Borgias were a very powerful family..and Cesare was a true warrior...he was a very handsome man...love this family...
All the Royal families of Europe, including King Charles III and his sons William and Harry, are descended from the Borgias.
I wish Netflix would pick up the rights from Showtime and finish this damn series the way it was meant to 😭😠😤
K Brennan Well yes.. but still not a satisfactory conclusion. I vote 🗳 they add at least 2 more seasons for it to wrap up nicely. As it stands, is left half way...
Try Borgia - Faith and Fear is better than the Borgias made by HBO.
@@valigogu4157 it is and it isn’t , borgias by hbo is more romanticized and the acting is better but borgias faith and fear is more realistic
YES his image was used in paintings of Christ most of them.
Your on the right path.
Can he still be alive he had an Instagram account and I have his face timing to call him today me and talk,?
If you want to say hi to Caesare Borgia, you can see him on the cross in Catholic churches.
I mean, what a morbid religion, christianity is. They worship this corpse, hanging on an execution device, tortured, sad as fuck, bleeding, stabbed, whipped to the bone etc. How depressing!
I never felt happy when i was a young Roman Catholic. I always felt depressed (and bored).
I am SO happy being a clear-minded non believer.
Whoever else is reading this (including yourself), go check out the christian sect where their religion revolved around magic mushrooms (the psylocybin mushrooms). Check it out even under images in google, where it shows you stained glass with the magic mushrooms under the saints' feet, and in their clothing.
You are a wise man, indeed you are right. NICE COMMENT.
Julia Leigh Brooks
Thank you Julia.
Franklin Nanai Wow thats Deep
We the Gods
Here after watching the Netflix show it’s really great
what netflix show?
@@btrzpinheiro it’s called the borgias with Jeremy irons
Watch it on Showtime.
Far more superior
Jeremy Irons is wonderful
A very fascinating video, yet sadly yet another video on youtube where Jofre is only even mentioned, yet not explored in depth.......strangely Juan is mostly overlooked as well aside from the issue of his murder.....lol
You know history.
Indeed they could have.
I've read a lot of books on the Borgia & travel to these places.
Juan was indeed a colorful character.
Jofre never expressed much Maturity.
Peace...
Jofre was not very i terested in politics. Privately the pope didn't even believe he was his son. He is simply not significant nor as infamous as his siblings. He appeared to have been normal. Rumours didn't surround him.
The Pope had a son who died young in Spain. After the death of Juan, he would not want to lose another son. If the Pope believed Cesare was implicated in Juan's death, he would not have done anything to Cesare because he did not want to lose another son,
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Hi @ chad@favor what,"s up cousin ♥️♥️🤔@chad@favor🤭🤭🤭🤗🌹
@@kayag1248 heyyy❤️
The only reason they have such a bad name is because they played the game better than they're enemies and were despised for it out of jealousy, and for all the people crying about cesare's image of jesus, it's no different than when an actor plays a fictional character in a film...
Thank you for this information did you know is this programs is on Portuguese or Spanish ?
they forgot to mention how cesare borgia was the misportraying face of jesus christ. along with the help of artist leonardo divinci who he had homosexual relationships with.
Jon Skully moron
MegaE5150 duh its.on the web, read.a fucken book moron
Wow, you wrote the whole word lol 😂 You couldn’t just say “gay”? ???
@@gaaraofthefunk7163 I"m Glad I"m a girl yessss 🤔🤗
@@kayag1248 ???
I just read a book that says the father of the Borgia's was Rodrigo's brother and also Caesare has an older brother who's fatherwas of course Rodrigo's brother who was the REAL father of the children. The book said the timeframe of Rodrigo and Vanozza 's moves they weren't ib rome and certainly NOT in the same time frame. yOUR THOUGHTS?
No thats not the way my DNA (I Now have 67,000 on my tree) falls . I know where the Borjas are now and who is related to me. I also have corresponding lines through the Spanish Habsburgs and the French Royal family right back to me. I also have very strong Stewart connections as well as Noronha in Portugal.
Cesare Borgia seems to be my grandfather.
I have found all sorts of fascinating persons in my ancestry.
It just seems to go on forever because of the arranged marriages and all.
Me too.I am the great great grand daughter of Lucrezia LOL and I descend through the Black Pope, I too have the Hapsburgs .Bourbons, De Valois and they are all top of the line! I was totally shocked when this came out of my DNA but it explains a lot of things.!
😂
cesare Borgia captain general of the Romagna armies also a prince known for his torchure chambers and cut the head off a bull in the arena all by age 24 or so
Truth.
He did.
Powerful warrior.
His master stroke in removing Ramiro De' Lorca is fascinating, and he had him split in two in the town square. 😮
I can’t get over how his hand looks so... disproportionate to his head.. if I’m writing ✍🏽 this correctly @.@
There's an argument that that's not Cesare at all, sadly.
assassins creed 2 and brotherhhod brought me here
Assassin’s creed 2, Brotherhood AND* the showtime show “The Borgias” brought me here as well 🥰😅🤣
The woman’s spoken S-Whistle is giving me a massive headache....Where’s Lucy Worsley when you need her????
if you look at pre renaissance art, the jesus still looks cesare-ish
The Cesare/Jesus myth was built on a myth as Anti-catholic sentiment, to discredit the idea of Jesus, Byzantine art depicted Jesus very similar hundreds of years before the Borgias even ruled.
Art changes over the centuries and so logically so would depictions of Jesus.
The Modern Hermeticist I am coming. a gain destroy them worship me in the church,s the Borgia family. wife,? get it now you get I. be prayering to him for wisdsom
Visuals?
At least they weren't dull.
Great video
Did she say principalities?
This family had no shame before God or men
+Truemiller Washington This is my family. And I can say that I love my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. So, some of us ended up well lol
shame is a concept
Unfortunately Ruban Chandler you are right : Shame has become only a concept, when it should be a consequence.
And this is still going on
There are good people in the church
At least we know now where the image of jesus originated from. 😂😂😂😂
Not really cheak orthodox church old images in 3rd century
I don't know why people in this comment thread keep saying that Cesare is the modern depiction of Jesus or whatever when he does not look like Jesus, and there are paintings that were painted 1000 years before Cesare was born and Jesus looks the same in them as he does in any other modern painting
It's an idea that is promoted by the famous Alexander Dumas ( count of monte christo, three musketeers) Da vinci worked with Cesare during the time he painted his christ. (Salvator Mundi). So in Dumas' mind Cesare must have been his inspiration> Not so strange. Rodrigo had his son painted as the christ by Vanucci ( Il Perugino)
If you were employed to paint .. by someone as rich as Cesare ... you might try to ingratiate yourself.
이거 미국 어디 방송인가요?
죽마고우竹馬故友 it all about. power
죽마고우竹馬故友 I like my n comments
I love my husband to be🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
I thought it had been widely recognised that Machiavelli's "The Prince" was a work of satire, and not real admiration.
satire? I doubt this was the intent of the work
Wheres the part where Ezio dropped Cesare off a building?
Didn't happen
Dude he doesn't excite
I know it didn't happened
@@marxbathan188 fun fact did you know that palazo auditory is famous hotel in Florence
@@rickyyacine4818 I know that because I've been there
so jesus was cesare borgia
It's an idea that is promoted by the famous Alexander Dumas ( count of monte christo, three musketeers) Da vinci worked with Cesare during the time he painted his christ. (Salvator Mundi). So in Dumas' mind Cesare must have been his inspiration. Not so strange. Years earlier Rodrigo had his son painted as the christ by Vanucci ( Il Perugino)
correction: church
Willie Woodard,Jr. and for as the church. age is gone die and gone so far as I can see the new millennium is dead and gone hahaha
Mi piacerebbe che questa storia si raccontasse in ITALIANO
Mark Rylance isn't it?
I'm related to the Borgia through Cardone/d'Este line. (on my dad side who interestingly enough is Italian and Jewish I always wondered if some of the royal families in Italy had Jewish blood lines I still think that perhaps some of those rumors are true) It's nice to hear some positive stuff about that side of the family LOL it's incredible how political PR can destroy the reputation of a family. There's absolutely no proof for most of the claims. Although I do have my doubts about my great great plus grandmother's brother being innocent of killing her second husband. I come through the third husband's to Lucretia (d'Este) interesting dialogue thanks for the post. I wish I knew the absolute truth, but I'm sure I never will. Still I appreciate his story ends that are willing to take another look at this family and perhaps see them in a more truthful light. It was strange for me to find out I'm related to Padre Pio (pietrelicina , Benevento Italy , )through the same Cardone surname) and also this pope Alexander guy and I'm Ashkenazi Jewish on my mother side. History definitely has a sense of humor.
Historians;))
Basically Satan DNA
Read Sargentini on Rodrigo and Sarah Bradford on Lucrezia
Martin Anders Tukker Thank you, I will😊
I also suspect Judaism in the family.I have also got Faranese, Bourbon ,De Valois,etc and Sforza
The female speaker sounds like the actor for lucrezia
Good job not crediting Lord Melvyn Bragg and In Our Time
Last emperor. Borgia son was classed a 'jesus'
No, that's a myth, Alexandre Dumas made it up in the 19thC. We have the standard bearded long haired image of Jesus from nearly a thousand years before Borgia was even born
The Black Legion is not about the Borgias.
You can tell the interviewer is sort of against the Borgias.
Nah, he's just asking about the widely spread misconceptions about the Borgias and the time they lived in.
I'm a Borgia😊
You obviously don’t mean shit to them or you wouldn’t feel the need to brag about it on RUclips like an insecure little boy, so... Want a cookie 🍪?
Devon Borg AND?
I am a Borgia as well.
Cesare Borgia in the New age of enlightenment.
♡♡♡
Wel come???
Birhia was first Pope
Say whatever you say about cecare borgia but he was actually a good ruler most of the ruler before him was extremely corrupt or pity if he had the power to runite about italia 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Im a borgia
Sakura Najimi I am a steps Borgia blood line
Machiavelli isn't a good observer nor a good politician ? This woman does not know what she talks about. Just read he's damn book. All modern politicians/ ruler swear by his books. Had to stop this video after hearing this.
Same as boernicians?
I have to book.
Oh I do like jeremy irons version of the Borgias.Dont like the german one.horrible! I think Ceasare was sort of handsome....🦋
📽🍿
they leave out alot of real info ppl want to know twisted censor history
Get better microphones ... so much mumbling ...
Thanks for this information,,,,, can’t believe people still believe this was Jesus… Can’t hide the Truth
Jesus was black.
Dark brown.
As it says in Revelation
😂😂😂😂 I don't think so, it simply means he wasnt pale skinned with blue eyes like this false image.
+STEPHANIE KING We can all agree that Jesus was not European. But this is RUclips. Alright......go.
+STEPHANIE KING He wasn't black or white, he was a semite, or precisely a jew.
***** k
You're are absolutely right history has proven his skin color as dark as you and me. The Bible has proven that Jesus feet was like burnt brass, and what would happen if you put flames on brass........plus his texture of his hair as thick as wool, which doing the time of Whites exploring the the continent of Africa noting in their diaries about dark skin people and their hair texture being as thick as sheep wool. That being said don't listen to those Demons who think their people was the first in everything, discovery everything (Columbus), invented everything. Our ancestors was great people, who love all God's people, but just like the Devil who will smile in your face call you a friend and later stab you in the back and steal everything "History, Country, Culture" and tell you a thousand years later it was their people who did it. Also the first Jews was black and still are black if you travel throughout the northern part of Africa. Racist White are thieves if you do your history, they stolen our history and made it theirs, for one Medicine, Astronomy, Math, Science all came from Timbuktu, and one of their great minds Socrates have study there. They also benefit from this great country they stolen and we built for them. That being said, we can show facts, all they can do is call you names and say you are a fool. MUCH LOVE!!!
Funny...popes son... important time to become an artist and all the artists are competing... wonder what type of wonderful art they made for history? 😉 This white boy knows what’s up
There's a debate on RUclips with GOCC and a Jewish rabbi online. "A Jewish confession." That was unlike anything I've ever heard before. Watch GOCC's teaching on, "The replacement of Hebrew Israelites with European Jews" Some deep history many won't be able to digest. The bible says that, "the son of perdition must be revealed" Biblical breakdown according to end time prophecy.
Didn’t mention the most important thang about the Borgia popes. They protected the deposit of faith. They never changed the doctrine Of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
joseph karl interestimg
Jhon Famo jesus said the church would be messy. Jesus predicted all this. St Francis said “if a bishop beat me to within an inch of my life for no reason, I would get up and kiss his ring.” I’m Catholic, I know my priest and my pope are messed up. I also know Jesus is in charge of the Roman Catholic Church.
Really - so a criminal sustained a cult of perversion ? The Roman whore was always the enemy of Jesus Christ but not for very long any more 🤗⏱
They were theologically conservative, like all the renaissance popes
He is bogria that. The chose me to worship him the Black Jesus did long time ago
but take look at Byzantium artwork of Jesus in 300 ad was brown men but other thing where correct about him
@@rickyyacine4818 ok
@@rickyyacine4818 this me CGG.
Some of you need to study the genealogy of Yahshuah/Jesus. Starting with Genesis. We tend to skip over genealogy, however, many clues were given in studying the genealogy. Check out Jacob and Esau. Also study the caucus mountains, Kazarians and where they originated. Of course caucus mountains and Kazarians would be a different source of research. Read about who the Shemites are. The answer will be plain to see as far as Jesus's race. Check out DEUTERONOMY 28. That's just one of the chapters that indicates the Israelites being thrown into slavery and shipped to the 4 corners of the Earth which includes America and the Caribbean. Study with and open mind and search for the truth. It's as plain as day. There's a series called :Whited Out. It's a 5 part series. You can find it here on RUclips. Happy researching. Shalom
🤣🤣🤣😂🤣 here come the stupid Black zebras.... I am a proud brown man
These ladies are sugarcoating history... So afraid to call a spade a spade 😕. Hey we all know what the Papacy did and The Borgia's etc. Come on
We all know better than those who studied them extensively? Ha, ok.
The Anti Christ
Ew
Sounds alot like the Trump family.
what a crap, ignoring catalonia all the time in this documentary, the biggest navy in the whole mediterranean at that time! the catalans founded the kingdom of aragon,this is why they have a catalan flag, in this period of history was catalonia/aragon naples, sicily,corse, south of france, valencia and even some enclaves in the adriatic coast,in greece
Well, the reason they made this is because of the show "The Borgias", and the show completely ignores Spain's influence and military presence in Italy during these times. Check out "Borgia" on netflix if you're interested in a more historically accurate representation.
Que dices personaje? como va a fundar cataluña la corona de aragon? que cataluña no era nada, eran unos condados que se unieron a aragon para ser algo, que ya esta bien de inventaros la historia.
Donald trump modern Rodrigo borgia
Trump is not that smart.
@j.m.b5441 More like modern day Caligula.
Ej
These people are not CHRIST followers and ain’t got nun to do wit CHRIST JESUS don’t even look like that and JESUS LOVES ALL
Your naivety is laughable.
@@Zeverinsen what are you talking about are do you have any religion yourself if the nativity is laughable why are u commenting under my comment go find something unlaughable apparently it not that laughable for you to be commenting what is your religion
@@KAYKAY-tf3jz ?????
My real. Name is kaya??????
@@KAYKAY-tf3jz my real name is kaya