The sad thing is that just like Ronny continues to ignore or downplay how much Tyler Thompson had to do with getting this issue through his over engineered skull, he continues to conflate the issue of the roof rack mounting (pop rivets through sheet metal) being the real issue instead of the Rhino racks themselves. I was onboard with Ronny before this stuff, pretty shameful honestly.
I think it's bloody spot-on that even when you stuff-up (unintentionally) you are honest & man enough to say so & to me that goes a hell of a long way, good on ya Ronny & thank you for honest no bull reviews & recommendations. It's a rare commodity these day Mate, Steve.
100 per cent correct. So glad I saw these videos... am now going to bin off my roof rack purchase and instead buy a pair of top spec thule roof bars which weigh 2.5kg each and can take 70kg of weight, then make custom brackets to mount awning, roof box, maxtrax and my foldable kayak/boat.
As an owner of a relatively new Rhino rack I was somewhat dismayed (pissed) to realise what a lemon I had bought and kicked myself for making (in retrospect) an expensive dumb decision. I really appreciate your openess and candor about the issues and for bringing them to my and the broader audience's attention. Its sad to see a premium brand have its reputation tarnished but its their issue NOT yours as unlike the other brands you highlighted Rhino Rack made it very difficult for the average vustomer to understand their products limitations. Sadly even their new load rating calculator fudges the issues re off road load ratings (Special Note: Off-Road Load Rating can be calculated by using the formula provided in your Rhino-Rack fitting instruction) - luckily I drive a Patrol so I have some usable load left ..... thanks again for making an important video ... we needed to know ...
Good job, Ronny. My friend has just installed a Front Runner Slimline II platform rack on his LC 200. The rack has a load rating of 300kgs and the LC’s roof load rating is 200kgs. Even though he won’t exceed 200kgs, it’s always reassuring to be OVER engineered. 🦾
You forget to put the handbrake on and it's not in gear, and nocturnal activities start it rolling down a hill 🤣. "Is the earth moving for you too dear?" lol 😄😄😄
Yes mate, I have been a 4by owner for decades - and I had never heard about the massive lower load limit for the roof. I had always been of the belief that the rack was only for light stuff, but due to increased C of G concerns on the slippery stuff, not coz it would be torn off the roof! Cheers mate.
Ronny I wouldn't sweat 2 kgs. Remember that roof rating is only a safe buffer that the manufacturer tells us. You can put a bit more and you'll still be mint.
Problem with that idea is that the mass is multiplied by acceleration. So, 2kg under 5g acceleration, like hitting a big bump, is suddenly 10kg more than the limit. Yes, there are safety factors but they are there for a reason, like, higher than anticipated acceleration being applied, or the stuff up there having more mass due to being wet, for example.
I have dealt with front runner for more than 13 years , it is a good product which improved over the years as it should. It is not my first choice when it comes to my personal vehicle , but I have to say I have fitted a lot of them. and my customers overloads them often not that they should but it happens without any major issues. A few tips . check the button heads regularly and ask your mate at front runner for two bags of t slot rubber and fill up all the open cavities of the rack with said rubber , you will thank me later.
Glad you went through this Ronny cause there's a hell of a lot of dumb cashed-up boguns getting about these days bolting unnecessary shit on their rigs and a lot the 4WD accessory industry is a bit of an overinflated cesspit.
Really good simple explanation there Ronny! A lot of people overload their racks, 2kg isn't going to be an issue really. I still cannot believe anyone thought pop rivets were a good idea! That just shows the difference in a rack and bling! You have to be careful out there!
Been watching several of your videos and the last one I saw referred me to this one. What an eye opener. Demonstrated how ignorant I have been about Roof load Limits and how they can impact, not only your safety, but your insurance if something should happen as a result of being overloaded. Just spent an hour working out my limits and what I have been carrying on my racks; needless to say, I have some work to do for my next trip. Thank you so much for raising my awareness to this really important subject. Keep bringing out these videos Ronny. Cheers
Yep my head was in a spin when i watched your video, i consulted with the manufacturer of my rack and it has an all round rating which puts it at 75kg, Happy Days, and your right , you shouldn't have to spend hrs trying to find the info , it should be clear as mud on rack websites. Thanks Mate
I never got specific numbers on load capacities on my rack or roof, but I had at least 80 kilos up there. After watching your first video on this I took it off until I can sort it out, so THANK YOU!
This is exactly the reason I went Frontrunner when I installed a roof rack on my truck a few years ago. The Slimline uses bolts instead of weaker rivets. Drilling through the front of the truck roof was a bit of a pain so patience is essential.
So if you bought any rack all you had to do is not use the pop rivets.. bolt it just like he did in the video. It wasn’t the racks issue it was mounting it.
Thanks for the heads up, as sum one who has a duel cab on its way I have been thinking on how to set up the roof for what do. You have open my eye to all the thing I need to know cheers mate.
So why didn’t you consider mounting the Rhino Rack using the same method? It’s not the rack itself that was the weak point, rather the crappy attachment method. I know rhino rack suggest using rivets but you could have bolted through with the same method as you ended up with. The same platform has a higher weight rating in other vehicle applications. I rolled my 4WD down an embankment, onto its side and onto the edge of a gutter mounted Rhino Rack platform. The rack was fine, including the composite mounting legs. The truck was a write off. The rack has now been fitted to my next build. I believe your energy would have been better spent criticising the vehicle’s low roof loading and lack of decent attachment points.
I see heaps of 4wd owners that complain of leaking windscreens but when they come in you see steel roof racks loaded up and it is almost always a roof seam/gutter seam that has fatigued and opened up.
Good alert and outcome Ronny - you’ve saved a lot of folk drilling several holes in the roof of their new $60000 plus utes and other 4WDS - if the rust eventually appears their new or used vehicles will lose $1000s in value - I suspected my 2010 Hilux roof was too thin for rivets or whatever so I went for a small Rhino Rack basket mounted to.Rola roof bars securely clamped above the doors - only use for awning and Maxtracks - John in SA
Here in Scandinavia we use the Thule system, with rack and tent adding up to 73 kilo on dual cab utes. Thanks for great vids Ronny! Best regards from Norway!!
Then again, I have a Discovery 2, the load is supported on the gutter rails instead of the actual roof. No idea why 4x4's don't come with gutters anymore 🤷
Front Runner make excellent products. In fact, did you know that Front Runner make the factory Toyota tow bars for Toyota? Fun fact mate. I've got a Front Runner gas bottle holder and 60 litre poly water tank in my 79 dual cab. Bloody great quality gear.
Great video series. My Gen 3 Tacoma comes from the factory with mounting points built into the roof. I bolted a Victory 4x4 roof rack and it is very sturdy. The design looks similar to your new one. The main structure runs fore / aft along the seam in the roof, and the load carrying members run side to side. Makes it very easy to configure.
I have an Ineos Grenadier on order, and after I had a set of Yakima roof racks with 3 SUP boards ripped off my BT50, tearing chunks out of the roof, I have been very cautious about roof racks/platforms. Ineos list 420kgs static and 150kgs dynamic load rating on the roof. At the moment I intend to fit a Bush company 270XT MAX awning which weighs 33 kgs. When I contacted them they said they work with all brands but recommend Frontrunner. Apart from the awning and Max tracks, which I will only fit when going offroad, not all 24/7 year round, I will need to load timber and hardware up there on weekends for DIY projects. The Grenadier has gutter mount all around and has inbuilt tie down points They also say you can walk on the roof directly.
The vehicle roof load rating isn't only about how much load the roof can take but it's also about stability. So if you are traveling 100km/h and have to swerve to miss a kangaroo the vehicle will handle very differently with a load up top than without. You did a good choice with the rack Ronny !
Maybe consider maximising your table space and reducing roofrack load by using those Maxtrax Table mounts Andrew St Peirre White used on his Troopy? Get a mount made to put them either side of the tub over the arches. Or save wiring and light housing weight with a single LED Bar.
Love your channel Ronnie. For me this roof rack thing is too much trouble. I used to have a rhino rack and got rid of it. I found it increased my centre of gravity too much and reduced my off-road performance. I have just found other ways to save space for all my camping gear.
The way I saw it when I bought my rack was front runner hoisted up a vehicle just by it’s rack alone on a defender (can’t remember) ? Can’t do that with rivets.. Mine bolted to the chassis ..on the Amarok. I’m not pushing vw here just doing practical observations. They had that forethought initially. Since then it was basic physics. The more sway in your driving, the more stress up top so keep things tight and solid no wriggle. Foundations up is where it went basically
good video Ronny i watched when the first roof rack was installed with pop rivets and thought what the hell are these jokers doing using rivets, what a load shit i thought and i know this from using them for installs for 30 yrs in farm equipment and busses and RV'S and we found out from trial and error should only ever be used inside no out side, for one underload Dynamic the wind force will pull, basically stretching them , so they loosen over time and start to squeak and leak when it rains, thats why they should never be used externally and have seen the data on 4 different fronts over 30 yrs, sure glad to see you changed it out for this new one 👍
Put a Slimline II Frontrunner Tall roof rack on my Defender. It just uses feet to mount. Took me 2 hours to mount a full length rack. Have a James Baroud Explorer roof tent and James Baroud 270 awning mounted. Had to buy support bars for the tent and ordered a quick release kit. HINDSIGHT: should have just bought roof bars to take the roof tent. I also added two more awning mounts to the rack to hold such a big awning and two more feet to the rack for extra support.
Hi Ron, my rack is rated to 80kg on and off road, l Carry 2 maxtraks shove and holders one side the other a 2,5 X 2'5 awning also a double swag in the middle, Carry Wight 55kg no problems so far, roof rack is bolted down on 8 points 4 each side with rivets between l have a 2018 Xmas, great show.
Glad I’d originally looked into this and went for the Frontrunner on my PS exceed as I’d thought about a Rhino as much easier to get in the UK! Glad I waited the shipping length. Thanks Ronny for the breakdown of weights etc. Checked and checked my main loads ie kayak weight.
I too nearly made an expensive mistake regarding this. But luckily I saw Tyler Thompson's video a few weeks ago about this subject. I was about to get a Rhino Rack Pioneer platform roof rack, as I like supporting Aussie companies as much as I can. Plus I like the features of the Pioneer rack system, and not only is the quality standards high, it also looks good. But then I found out for the 80 Series, Rhino Rack only has a 100kg on-road load rating for the Pioneer platform. It's off-road load rating is even less at 66kg. Then take the rack's weight into account (-36kg), leaves me with only 30kg to work with. There is not a single hard-shell RTT in the market that weighs that little, let alone fitting my RR Batwing awning, fixed solar panels and Maxtrax on top of the RTT. As much as I'd like to get a Rhino Rack and support Aussie companies, sadly it's no longer an option for me. Instead, I'll be getting a Front Runner. Their platform rack for the 80 Series, has a dynamic load rating of 150kg for both on and off-road.
I see very few use cases that require a roof rack. I always had 2 or 3 roof bars and a Thule box. Roof rack - you put 20-25 kg of rack to carry another 30 kg off road .. very inefficient use. I am amazed when you see a roof rack with an RTT on it, so no space can be used, maybe some lights in front, that is it. Why not 2-3 bars at 1 kg each and an RTT ? you have 20 kg less minimum up top, that is always a good thing. You can make a custom bracket for the lights if you have to. If you want to carry stuff, not an RTT - same thing. You can put up there more stuff, stays in a box that you can lock and not worry about sticky fingers, out of the rain and dust. There are ways to mount awnings as well using only roof bars. I have to admit, roof racks look very cool and if have a couple of bars and box you look like a lost puppy in the outback. Might not be a bad thing tough, maybe some will feed you for free.. :) ....
Rhino Rack must be taking a big kick to the balls atm. FrontRunner must be laughing their heads off. Seriously who sits down at a major manufacturing company’s drawing board and comes up with a great looking rack then tacks it on with rivets? That right now is the laughing stock of the industry. Absolutely amazing. 😳
People who blame rivets have no idea how strong rivets are. Also before you refer to Tyler's video, his wasn't installed correctly as confirmed by videos of his installation of his room rack, which he has now taken down.
@@oldbloke204 the total roof rating is 120kg on the 2020 let with roof rails removed. It end up being rated to 61.5kg when off-road and 85.5kg when on road
You’ve been harder on yourself than anyone else has been on you and your experience. The great Roof Rack scandal of 2021. It has been a positive for the off road industry.
Get rid of a few lights! Move em to another area if you need them (of course you do Mr "in the dark, we find camp. 🤣) but seriously, Chuck some of those lights and just get some brighter and lighter ones...
While I do have a rhino platform, the backbone is not riveted to the roof, but instead bolted to the factory roof rack mounting studs. I did read the fitting instruction prior to purchase (although I cant recall the on/off road rating bit) if it had of called on riveting the mount to the roof I wouldn't have brought it. While Ronny has a point that rivets are good, after all planes are held together with rivets - they are not the same as the rivets we buy at bunnings which is what looks like all that holds these riveted rhino platforms in place.
The centre of gravity is why you should not overload your roof, I have seen 4x4's with 4/5 jerrycans a tent, toolbox , add a suspension lift and you are asking for trouble, fall over on the trail type trouble.
Like every thing in this world ,there is pop rivets and then there's industrial type pop rivets but you need a special pop riveter to install them.Rhino are doing cheap, that's why I went Front Runner for the BT.
This is not having a crack at you in anyway. I worked for Boeing assembling aircraft components and we did use those basic rivets, but only for temporarily installed parts so they were easy to remove later. All permanent rivet fasteners were squeeze from both sides, or were a threaded collapsing style fasteners.
Happy to see you got the new setup sorted out mate. Must have been a frustrating experience. I have an GU Patrol with the RL leg set up on a pioneer rack. Not had any issues with it but was blown away to find it is rated for under 50kg off road. What was Rhino thinking eh? 🤦♂️ In fact I was so annoyed I made a video for my 4x4 club covering yours, Tyler Tompsons and Johns Cadogens experience with this issue (although this one is only linked to as I only just found it and its scheduled for this morning..) and showing how even with a good mounting technique, the rack is so nerfed off road its probably not rated to do the job most want of it. Thank you for helping to bring this issue to wider public attention. I wonder if John will make it 3 for 3 for Frontrunner.
Hi Ronny, Just thought I’d post this from rhino rack for my 2021 Prado using their pioneer rack with SX legs (attaching to factory rails) It appears that there’s no off-road limit for the rack using the factory Toyota rails. I’m guessing a big part of your problem was with the rivets and fastening system rather than the rack it’s self. Hope this proves useful. Here’s what their load calculator says: Vehicle/System Load Limit: 80kg Roof Rack System Weight (excludes additional accessories): 27kg Roof Rack Cargo Capacity (excludes additional accessories): 53kg Off-Road Load Rating (excludes additional accessories): 53kg (off-road load reduction does not apply to this roof rack system.)
This is a much nicer rack than the old one, shame on the Hilux having 75kg roof limit when a lot of other cars have 100kg. Still looks good, love the entire setup.
Well, if someone still wants to increase the dynamic load on the roof, the only way is to get an internal roll cage fabricated which hopefully distribute the load across the monocoque or the chassis and stop things flying off the vehicle on corrugations.
In my opinion using those rivets to mount the roof rack was and is the actual Rhino Rack design flaw. And obviously Front Runner did a better job there using factory mounting points. BUT: The fact that Rhino Rack says there's a difference between on- and off-road load ratings is a GOOD one. Because physics apply to any roof rack, and I doubt the Front Runner to be tougher. Frankly to me it's even more flimsy than the Rhino Rack. I interpret the different ratings as a safety buffer, which Front Runner DOESN'T see.
You mentioned you've researched 200 and Prado roof loads. Where did you find the Prado's roof load mate? I've been looking everywhere. I found the 200 is 200kg off toyota spec sheet. Thanks legend
Cheers mate, all great info. What I didnt understand from all these ratings: Is it possible to be on top of the roof in the roof top tent on top of my wife and be very dynamic? And whats the rating then?
Roof rack, front bumper and winch! Have you upgraded the suspension yet? OME OME....lol. I admire you for your comments on the old and new rack installation.....(not sure if i approve of drilling holes in the roof though!).
Drive to destination while deflating tyres put the max traks on the Ute lid for ease of use there are plenty of ways to fix the problem thanks for the vid
If you mount on OEM roof rails, the weight of the platform is not subtracted from the carrying weight. My Touareg carries a Rhino Platform - good for 100 Kg.
When I got my 80 series it came with the basket for $1500 worth of roof rack that had had its welded legs blown off from the basket, I wish the bloke I got it off had of known what you've shown in these videos
I think bars from the bumber or side/rear gliders to the rack is the way to go for heavy loads without any roof connection to allow for movements of the body to the chassis. A little bit of steel, some welding, shouldn't be expensive.
I've had, for a short period of 3km, had roughly 300kg on a home made rack with 2 standard Subaru crossbars (75kg rated) on my old 2000 Subaru Forester. It handled it fine but I wouldn't do it for more than 5 km and wouldnt go above 40kmh or go off road. Weight limits are there for a reason and I would assume there is a safety margin which I probably exceeded that day.
Nice video mate, got the ARB base rack coming on my hilux N70, one load rating, 20 kgs total for the rack gives me 55kg to play with. Cable channels and quick release eyelets.
How does it not have an off road rating? In the US we refer to them as static/dynamic rating. The dynamic rating won't go away due to the G forces that you can apply during off-road. So it must have one. Maybe they ONLY have the dynamic rating? which is lower?
Awesome video and like many people didn't think about roof load rating and weight of accessories. Is there any way you could add strength to the hilux roof to get more load rating?
I was a little surprised to see you acknowledge this issue, other personalities(?) tend to play dumb or ignore it entirely. I think most people can understand the situation but doubt anyone will change their setup with the knowledge that their $1000+ roof rack is only good for an awning, lights and some maxtrax. Obviously, not all vehicles are the same, but the vast majority I've seen have
At the time that I was looking to buy a rack I looked at the Rhino and Front Runner and bought the Front Runner tub rack. The Rhino roof rack installation method did not make sense to me then and makes less sense to me now. After plenty of use I am more than happy with the Front Runner. On a number of occasions I have overloaded the tub rack and suffered no detrimental effects. It appears that Front Runner are rather conservative with their load ratings. One thing that was obvious from the start....all roof racks are next to useless when it comes to carrying weight.
Hi Ronny, another great video! Not sure if any others has been asked before, but if roof platform only use for holding awnings and maxtraxs plus few lights, why not just use roof bars instead? Does this will be a cheaper options plus lighter weight on the roof?
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS VIDEO here: ruclips.net/video/CY0Kjkuhfo0/видео.html
Thanks Ronny for your video but everybody lets not forget Tyler Thompson for flagging this Rhino problem in the first place, thanks Tyler.
Hear hear!!!
Maybe the install was the problem.
More then the rack..
Love watching Tyler Thompson, so down to earth and relatable.
The sad thing is that just like Ronny continues to ignore or downplay how much Tyler Thompson had to do with getting this issue through his over engineered skull, he continues to conflate the issue of the roof rack mounting (pop rivets through sheet metal) being the real issue instead of the Rhino racks themselves. I was onboard with Ronny before this stuff, pretty shameful honestly.
Lets also remember tyler didn't do his due diligence either. He discovered the issue when it fell off his roof onto the ground.
I think it's bloody spot-on that even when you stuff-up (unintentionally) you are honest & man enough to say so & to me that goes a hell of a long
way, good on ya Ronny & thank you for honest no bull reviews & recommendations.
It's a rare commodity these day Mate, Steve.
Well said
Very well said. Good on you Ronny, love your honesty, legend.
One thing that these videos have made me realise is that roof racks are bloody useless for what you pay for them.
100 per cent correct. So glad I saw these videos... am now going to bin off my roof rack purchase and instead buy a pair of top spec thule roof bars which weigh 2.5kg each and can take 70kg of weight, then make custom brackets to mount awning, roof box, maxtrax and my foldable kayak/boat.
Not useless on my gutter mounted 80 series landcruiser.
Just useless on modern overpriced vehicles.
Nah they are good if you install them correctly. I have a rhino flat platform. I have two 250w solar panels. Holds them nicely.
@@simonm1528
I have seen a pic of an 80 series with a tub holding over 500 gallons on their rack !!
Wee bit more than 2 solar panels.
Lol, all good.
@@bilbo5775 yeah back in the old days I saw people carrying "all their belongings".
I drive a hsv clubsport, have never camped in my life or 4wd’d but have nearly watched every one of your videos in 2 years ✌️
I had a VF and i think because of Ronny and other channels i sold it for a Prado lol.
As an owner of a relatively new Rhino rack I was somewhat dismayed (pissed) to realise what a lemon I had bought and kicked myself for making (in retrospect) an expensive dumb decision. I really appreciate your openess and candor about the issues and for bringing them to my and the broader audience's attention. Its sad to see a premium brand have its reputation tarnished but its their issue NOT yours as unlike the other brands you highlighted Rhino Rack made it very difficult for the average vustomer to understand their products limitations. Sadly even their new load rating calculator fudges the issues re off road load ratings (Special Note: Off-Road Load Rating can be calculated by using the formula provided in your Rhino-Rack fitting instruction) - luckily I drive a Patrol so I have some usable load left ..... thanks again for making an important video ... we needed to know ...
Why don't you just replace the rivets with nut/bolt/plate washers?
Like your honesty, dislike roof racks that are basically useless once off road.
Good job, Ronny. My friend has just installed a Front Runner Slimline II platform rack on his LC 200. The rack has a load rating of 300kgs and the LC’s roof load rating is 200kgs. Even though he won’t exceed 200kgs, it’s always reassuring to be OVER engineered. 🦾
I laughed at the implication of two people sleeping in the rooftop tent while the vehicle is moving.
You forget to put the handbrake on and it's not in gear, and nocturnal activities start it rolling down a hill 🤣.
"Is the earth moving for you too dear?" lol 😄😄😄
It depends how dynamically they are “sleeping”!
Yes mate, I have been a 4by owner for decades - and I had never heard about the massive lower load limit for the roof. I had always been of the belief that the rack was only for light stuff, but due to increased C of G concerns on the slippery stuff, not coz it would be torn off the roof! Cheers mate.
I appreciate your honesty when you said you where over weight on the racks. I also thank you for the tip.
Ronny I wouldn't sweat 2 kgs. Remember that roof rating is only a safe buffer that the manufacturer tells us. You can put a bit more and you'll still be mint.
Problem with that idea is that the mass is multiplied by acceleration. So, 2kg under 5g acceleration, like hitting a big bump, is suddenly 10kg more than the limit. Yes, there are safety factors but they are there for a reason, like, higher than anticipated acceleration being applied, or the stuff up there having more mass due to being wet, for example.
I have dealt with front runner for more than 13 years , it is a good product which improved over the years as it should. It is not my first choice when it comes to my personal vehicle , but I have to say I have fitted a lot of them. and my customers overloads them often not that they should but it happens without any major issues. A few tips . check the button heads regularly and ask your mate at front runner for two bags of t slot rubber and fill up all the open cavities of the rack with said rubber , you will thank me later.
Glad you went through this Ronny cause there's a hell of a lot of dumb cashed-up boguns getting about these days bolting unnecessary shit on their rigs and a lot the 4WD accessory industry is a bit of an overinflated cesspit.
Too right!
Love your honestly Ronny. People admitting mistakes is so rare these days. It makes your videos way more real and authentic. Keep up the good work!
Really good simple explanation there Ronny! A lot of people overload their racks, 2kg isn't going to be an issue really. I still cannot believe anyone thought pop rivets were a good idea! That just shows the difference in a rack and bling! You have to be careful out there!
don't sweat it mate, just because you do youtube videos, doesn't mean you know everything there is to know, even though some expect you to .
Been watching several of your videos and the last one I saw referred me to this one. What an eye opener. Demonstrated how ignorant I have been about Roof load Limits and how they can impact, not only your safety, but your insurance if something should happen as a result of being overloaded. Just spent an hour working out my limits and what I have been carrying on my racks; needless to say, I have some work to do for my next trip. Thank you so much for raising my awareness to this really important subject. Keep bringing out these videos Ronny. Cheers
Yep my head was in a spin when i watched your video, i consulted with the manufacturer of my rack and it has an all round rating which puts it at 75kg, Happy Days, and your right , you shouldn't have to spend hrs trying to find the info , it should be clear as mud on rack websites. Thanks Mate
I never got specific numbers on load capacities on my rack or roof, but I had at least 80 kilos up there. After watching your first video on this I took it off until I can sort it out, so THANK YOU!
Thanks for the continued clarification of this poorly understood issue.
This is exactly the reason I went Frontrunner when I installed a roof rack on my truck a few years ago. The Slimline uses bolts instead of weaker rivets. Drilling through the front of the truck roof was a bit of a pain so patience is essential.
So if you bought any rack all you had to do is not use the pop rivets.. bolt it just like he did in the video. It wasn’t the racks issue it was mounting it.
Thanks for the heads up, as sum one who has a duel cab on its way I have been thinking on how to set up the roof for what do. You have open my eye to all the thing I need to know cheers mate.
So basically every roof rack that costs from $600-$2000 can only carry 2 jerry cans and nothing else. 👍 Wow such a space saver.
So why didn’t you consider mounting the Rhino Rack using the same method? It’s not the rack itself that was the weak point, rather the crappy attachment method. I know rhino rack suggest using rivets but you could have bolted through with the same method as you ended up with. The same platform has a higher weight rating in other vehicle applications.
I rolled my 4WD down an embankment, onto its side and onto the edge of a gutter mounted Rhino Rack platform. The rack was fine, including the composite mounting legs. The truck was a write off. The rack has now been fitted to my next build.
I believe your energy would have been better spent criticising the vehicle’s low roof loading and lack of decent attachment points.
So much this. On every point.
I see heaps of 4wd owners that complain of leaking windscreens but when they come in you see steel roof racks loaded up and it is almost always a roof seam/gutter seam that has fatigued and opened up.
Damn! There go my plans of napping in my roof top tent while my partner does the driving!
Man…I’m way over then! Love you Ronny!
Good alert and outcome Ronny - you’ve saved a lot of folk drilling several holes in the roof of their new $60000 plus utes and other 4WDS - if the rust eventually appears their new or used vehicles will lose $1000s in value - I suspected my 2010 Hilux roof was too thin for rivets or whatever so I went for a small Rhino Rack basket mounted to.Rola roof bars securely clamped above the doors - only use for awning and Maxtracks - John in SA
The misses and I make a fair bit of dynamic movement in the old roof top tent.
perfectly understandable!!, just don't spill the beer!!
I’m still not clear if I set my cruise control and get in my rtt for a nap is that ok👍👍
Here in Scandinavia we use the Thule system, with rack and tent adding up to 73 kilo on dual cab utes. Thanks for great vids Ronny! Best regards from Norway!!
Thanks for owning and opening my eyes buddy . Great content as always Ronny .
I loved my front runner roof rack on my prado 150, especially with the front runner table under the rack
11:20 Well, when I camp out with the wife, it gets really dynamic up on the tent even when the vehicle is static.
Was thinking the same thing mate 🙈😂🤣😂
Then again, I have a Discovery 2, the load is supported on the gutter rails instead of the actual roof. No idea why 4x4's don't come with gutters anymore 🤷
@@Morpheux1
Busting her cheeks?
@@larjkok1184 Nah... I snore pretty loud and she tosses and turns all night long 🤣😅
Great follow up vid Ronnie, appreciate the transparency!
Front Runner make excellent products. In fact, did you know that Front Runner make the factory Toyota tow bars for Toyota? Fun fact mate. I've got a Front Runner gas bottle holder and 60 litre poly water tank in my 79 dual cab. Bloody great quality gear.
Great video series. My Gen 3 Tacoma comes from the factory with mounting points built into the roof. I bolted a Victory 4x4 roof rack and it is very sturdy. The design looks similar to your new one. The main structure runs fore / aft along the seam in the roof, and the load carrying members run side to side. Makes it very easy to configure.
Great informative vlog Ronny a mistake I would've made as well thanks for the information and explanation
I have an Ineos Grenadier on order, and after I had a set of Yakima roof racks with 3 SUP boards ripped off my BT50, tearing chunks out of the roof, I have been very cautious about roof racks/platforms. Ineos list 420kgs static and 150kgs dynamic load rating on the roof. At the moment I intend to fit a Bush company 270XT MAX awning which weighs 33 kgs. When I contacted them they said they work with all brands but recommend Frontrunner. Apart from the awning and Max tracks, which I will only fit when going offroad, not all 24/7 year round, I will need to load timber and hardware up there on weekends for DIY projects. The Grenadier has gutter mount all around and has inbuilt tie down points They also say you can walk on the roof directly.
The vehicle roof load rating isn't only about how much load the roof can take but it's also about stability. So if you are traveling 100km/h and have to swerve to miss a kangaroo the vehicle will handle very differently with a load up top than without. You did a good choice with the rack Ronny !
Please don't swerve for wildlife, that is a big reason why people lose control and roll on country roads, brake and keep wheels straight.
@@lukehutchinson6754 true, but it is a natural reaction to most drivers and that's why car manufacturers put a roof load limit
Maybe consider maximising your table space and reducing roofrack load by using those Maxtrax Table mounts Andrew St Peirre White used on his Troopy? Get a mount made to put them either side of the tub over the arches. Or save wiring and light housing weight with a single LED Bar.
Love your channel Ronnie. For me this roof rack thing is too much trouble. I used to have a rhino rack and got rid of it. I found it increased my centre of gravity too much and reduced my off-road performance. I have just found other ways to save space for all my camping gear.
Thank you for letting us benefit for your experience.
The way I saw it when I bought my rack was front runner hoisted up a vehicle just by it’s rack alone on a defender (can’t remember) ?
Can’t do that with rivets..
Mine bolted to the chassis ..on the Amarok. I’m not pushing vw here just doing practical observations. They had that forethought initially. Since then it was basic physics. The more sway in your driving, the more stress up top so keep things tight and solid no wriggle. Foundations up is where it went basically
Consider moving the UHF antenna to your “roll bar” this will get you closer weight wise.
good video Ronny i watched when the first roof rack was installed with pop rivets and thought what the hell are these jokers doing using rivets, what a load shit i thought and i know this from using them for installs for 30 yrs in farm equipment and busses and RV'S and we found out from trial and error should only ever be used inside no out side, for one underload Dynamic the wind force will pull, basically stretching them , so they loosen over time and start to squeak and leak when it rains, thats why they should never be used externally and have seen the data on 4 different fronts over 30 yrs, sure glad to see you changed it out for this new one 👍
Put a Slimline II Frontrunner Tall roof rack on my Defender. It just uses feet to mount. Took me 2 hours to mount a full length rack. Have a James Baroud Explorer roof tent and James Baroud 270 awning mounted. Had to buy support bars for the tent and ordered a quick release kit. HINDSIGHT: should have just bought roof bars to take the roof tent. I also added two more awning mounts to the rack to hold such a big awning and two more feet to the rack for extra support.
Hi Ron, my rack is rated to 80kg on and off road, l Carry 2 maxtraks shove and holders one side the other a 2,5 X 2'5 awning also a double swag in the middle, Carry Wight 55kg no problems so far, roof rack is bolted down on 8 points 4 each side with rivets between l have a 2018 Xmas, great show.
Yo champion lovin the wild man WA surfie hair definitely works with the beard , another excellent vid good job 👍
Glad I’d originally looked into this and went for the Frontrunner on my PS exceed as I’d thought about a Rhino as much easier to get in the UK! Glad I waited the shipping length.
Thanks Ronny for the breakdown of weights etc. Checked and checked my main loads ie kayak weight.
Had a proper crack at Rhino Rack - brutal! Well done though, I had no idea!
See John Cadogans video for truly brutal.
I too nearly made an expensive mistake regarding this. But luckily I saw Tyler Thompson's video a few weeks ago about this subject. I was about to get a Rhino Rack Pioneer platform roof rack, as I like supporting Aussie companies as much as I can. Plus I like the features of the Pioneer rack system, and not only is the quality standards high, it also looks good. But then I found out for the 80 Series, Rhino Rack only has a 100kg on-road load rating for the Pioneer platform. It's off-road load rating is even less at 66kg. Then take the rack's weight into account (-36kg), leaves me with only 30kg to work with. There is not a single hard-shell RTT in the market that weighs that little, let alone fitting my RR Batwing awning, fixed solar panels and Maxtrax on top of the RTT. As much as I'd like to get a Rhino Rack and support Aussie companies, sadly it's no longer an option for me. Instead, I'll be getting a Front Runner. Their platform rack for the 80 Series, has a dynamic load rating of 150kg for both on and off-road.
I see very few use cases that require a roof rack. I always had 2 or 3 roof bars and a Thule box.
Roof rack - you put 20-25 kg of rack to carry another 30 kg off road .. very inefficient use. I am amazed when you see a roof rack with an RTT on it, so no space can be used, maybe some lights in front, that is it. Why not 2-3 bars at 1 kg each and an RTT ? you have 20 kg less minimum up top, that is always a good thing. You can make a custom bracket for the lights if you have to.
If you want to carry stuff, not an RTT - same thing. You can put up there more stuff, stays in a box that you can lock and not worry about sticky fingers, out of the rain and dust. There are ways to mount awnings as well using only roof bars.
I have to admit, roof racks look very cool and if have a couple of bars and box you look like a lost puppy in the outback. Might not be a bad thing tough, maybe some will feed you for free.. :) ....
Thanks Ronny saved my bacon found out can’t put roof top tent soft or hard shell with rino rack. Trouble is got used to gutters on my GU and defender.
Rhino Rack must be taking a big kick to the balls atm. FrontRunner must be laughing their heads off. Seriously who sits down at a major manufacturing company’s drawing board and comes up with a great looking rack then tacks it on with rivets? That right now is the laughing stock of the industry. Absolutely amazing. 😳
People who blame rivets have no idea how strong rivets are.
Also before you refer to Tyler's video, his wasn't installed correctly as confirmed by videos of his installation of his room rack, which he has now taken down.
I've got a pioneer and backbone system on my Prado, it bolts onto the factory roof rack mounts, no rivets!!
@@jbirkett1978 it's the same on the Mu-X.
Also the roof rating is alot higher on them.
@@oldbloke204 the total roof rating is 120kg on the 2020 let with roof rails removed.
It end up being rated to 61.5kg when off-road and 85.5kg when on road
@@oldbloke204 2020 mux is still the same as a 2012.. 2021 is the new model Mu-X
I think the real question is: why do the flys always seem to know where we're going to pull over for a nice rest break? 🤔 💭 🪰
😄
Great video mate but my rhino rack platform was installed using bolts instead of pop rivets not sure how much better this will hold weight
Great work - clear and helpful advice. Thanks.
Frontrunner sales must have been really good lately
You’ve been harder on yourself than anyone else has been on you and your experience.
The great Roof Rack scandal of 2021. It has been a positive for the off road industry.
Get rid of a few lights! Move em to another area if you need them (of course you do Mr "in the dark, we find camp. 🤣) but seriously, Chuck some of those lights and just get some brighter and lighter ones...
They look bloody stupid and when it's raining you can't see shit anyway.
While I do have a rhino platform, the backbone is not riveted to the roof, but instead bolted to the factory roof rack mounting studs. I did read the fitting instruction prior to purchase (although I cant recall the on/off road rating bit) if it had of called on riveting the mount to the roof I wouldn't have brought it. While Ronny has a point that rivets are good, after all planes are held together with rivets - they are not the same as the rivets we buy at bunnings which is what looks like all that holds these riveted rhino platforms in place.
The centre of gravity is why you should not overload your roof, I have seen 4x4's with 4/5 jerrycans a tent, toolbox , add a suspension lift and you are asking for trouble, fall over on the trail type trouble.
Like every thing in this world ,there is pop rivets and then there's industrial type pop rivets but you need a special pop riveter to install them.Rhino are doing cheap, that's why I went Front Runner for the BT.
This is not having a crack at you in anyway. I worked for Boeing assembling aircraft components and we did use those basic rivets, but only for temporarily installed parts so they were easy to remove later. All permanent rivet fasteners were squeeze from both sides, or were a threaded collapsing style fasteners.
Happy to see you got the new setup sorted out mate. Must have been a frustrating experience. I have an GU Patrol with the RL leg set up on a pioneer rack. Not had any issues with it but was blown away to find it is rated for under 50kg off road. What was Rhino thinking eh? 🤦♂️ In fact I was so annoyed I made a video for my 4x4 club covering yours, Tyler Tompsons and Johns Cadogens experience with this issue (although this one is only linked to as I only just found it and its scheduled for this morning..) and showing how even with a good mounting technique, the rack is so nerfed off road its probably not rated to do the job most want of it. Thank you for helping to bring this issue to wider public attention. I wonder if John will make it 3 for 3 for Frontrunner.
Hi Ronny, Just thought I’d post this from rhino rack for my 2021 Prado using their pioneer rack with SX legs (attaching to factory rails)
It appears that there’s no off-road limit for the rack using the factory Toyota rails. I’m guessing a big part of your problem was with the rivets and fastening system rather than the rack it’s self. Hope this proves useful.
Here’s what their load calculator says:
Vehicle/System Load Limit: 80kg
Roof Rack System Weight (excludes additional accessories): 27kg
Roof Rack Cargo Capacity (excludes additional accessories): 53kg
Off-Road Load Rating (excludes additional accessories): 53kg (off-road load reduction does not apply to this roof rack system.)
This is a much nicer rack than the old one, shame on the Hilux having 75kg roof limit when a lot of other cars have 100kg.
Still looks good, love the entire setup.
Well, if someone still wants to increase the dynamic load on the roof, the only way is to get an internal roll cage fabricated which hopefully distribute the load across the monocoque or the chassis and stop things flying off the vehicle on corrugations.
A Malcom Douglas tribute film would be awesome. 🤠
Do you plan to add a front locker to your Hilux? If so, which brand of locker do you prefer and why?
In my opinion using those rivets to mount the roof rack was and is the actual Rhino Rack design flaw. And obviously Front Runner did a better job there using factory mounting points. BUT: The fact that Rhino Rack says there's a difference between on- and off-road load ratings is a GOOD one. Because physics apply to any roof rack, and I doubt the Front Runner to be tougher. Frankly to me it's even more flimsy than the Rhino Rack. I interpret the different ratings as a safety buffer, which Front Runner DOESN'T see.
You mentioned you've researched 200 and Prado roof loads. Where did you find the Prado's roof load mate? I've been looking everywhere. I found the 200 is 200kg off toyota spec sheet. Thanks legend
Cheers mate, all great info.
What I didnt understand from all these ratings:
Is it possible to be on top of the roof in the roof top tent on top of my wife and be very dynamic? And whats the rating then?
Roof rack, front bumper and winch! Have you upgraded the suspension yet? OME OME....lol.
I admire you for your comments on the old and new rack installation.....(not sure if i approve of drilling holes in the roof though!).
Drive to destination while deflating tyres put the max traks on the Ute lid for ease of use there are plenty of ways to fix the problem thanks for the vid
Now everyone’s throwing on tub racks if they don’t have a canopy. Love the idea but are they able to be anchored well too. Talk about Pandora’s box!
As someone who was living under a rock, I approve this message :) .
If you mount on OEM roof rails, the weight of the platform is not subtracted from the carrying weight.
My Touareg carries a Rhino Platform - good for 100 Kg.
For a Hilux?
When I got my 80 series it came with the basket for $1500 worth of roof rack that had had its welded legs blown off from the basket, I wish the bloke I got it off had of known what you've shown in these videos
Luxy is looking pretty stout Ronny.👍
We have 3 FR racks. Absolutely love them!
Well done Ronny
I think bars from the bumber or side/rear gliders to the rack is the way to go for heavy loads without any roof connection to allow for movements of the body to the chassis. A little bit of steel, some welding, shouldn't be expensive.
I've had, for a short period of 3km, had roughly 300kg on a home made rack with 2 standard Subaru crossbars (75kg rated) on my old 2000 Subaru Forester. It handled it fine but I wouldn't do it for more than 5 km and wouldnt go above 40kmh or go off road. Weight limits are there for a reason and I would assume there is a safety margin which I probably exceeded that day.
Nice video mate, got the ARB base rack coming on my hilux N70, one load rating, 20 kgs total for the rack gives me 55kg to play with. Cable channels and quick release eyelets.
I did my research after watching @tylerthomsons video and ended up with a Front Runner too. Great rack
What you need is an antiroll cage, and you can put on it what you want, you can even make your own rack with your own standards for the weight 😎
Anti roll? How does it stop a roll over?
Great video, Ronny.
How does it not have an off road rating? In the US we refer to them as static/dynamic rating. The dynamic rating won't go away due to the G forces that you can apply during off-road. So it must have one. Maybe they ONLY have the dynamic rating? which is lower?
Awesome video and like many people didn't think about roof load rating and weight of accessories. Is there any way you could add strength to the hilux roof to get more load rating?
Hey mate you look like bloody Robinson Crusoe :)
Love the armour .... looks tuff .
tHE saga of Little Ronnies Ruff Rak Gate ( LRRRG ) continues...
U sure U got it right this time. sonny boy"""
So if you are sleeping in the roof top tent and doing a bit of jiggy jiggy business, is that considered as static or dynamic load? 😉
Definitely dynamic, unless you move very slowly. he-he
I was a little surprised to see you acknowledge this issue, other personalities(?) tend to play dumb or ignore it entirely.
I think most people can understand the situation but doubt anyone will change their setup with the knowledge that their $1000+ roof rack is only good for an awning, lights and some maxtrax.
Obviously, not all vehicles are the same, but the vast majority I've seen have
At the time that I was looking to buy a rack I looked at the Rhino and Front Runner and bought the Front Runner tub rack. The Rhino roof rack installation method did not make sense to me then and makes less sense to me now. After plenty of use I am more than happy with the Front Runner. On a number of occasions I have overloaded the tub rack and suffered no detrimental effects. It appears that Front Runner are rather conservative with their load ratings. One thing that was obvious from the start....all roof racks are next to useless when it comes to carrying weight.
Good video :)
My UK Prado LC 150 manual says it has a 75kg max roof load
The fitted Toyota roof bars give a lower than that off road capacity.
Hi Ronny, another great video!
Not sure if any others has been asked before, but if roof platform only use for holding awnings and maxtraxs plus few lights, why not just use roof bars instead?
Does this will be a cheaper options plus lighter weight on the roof?
yes that is very true I mention this in the other video (on second channel) but the amount of stuff I got on is too much to make a neat job out of it.