sand is not so dense, so it is a good idea to mix both sand and gravel together with epoxy and fill it with that, should give the best results. Looks super heavy duty btw
Hi! gorgeous welds. Just a thought regarding the hollow tube fill, you will get a greater mean density and improved damping properties if you vary the particle size. e.g. sand and small gravel. Easily reversible too. Epoxy granite is the classic solution here, but that can be an expensive business with all of the resins and experimentation - you also need to make sure your media is very dry. There are also some low-shrinkage cement mixes and additives which would likely work well too, but would likely benefit from mesh or bars welded into the tubes.
@@GBWM_CNC There is a series of videos on RUclips about a prof of mechanical engineering iirc. He has an Air Bearing lathe with the bed made from granite parallels epoxied together.
Went on a tour of Ingersoll in Rockford Illinois once. To stress relieve the large weldments for some machines they had ovens up to 60 feet long and 12 feet in diameter. Definitely see the need her for stress relieving.
no stress relief? as someone who makes a living from calibrating precision machine tool i suggest.. as you introduce so much stress in those steel. surely, they will keep moving like crazy even after years.. try annealing if you can. or at least use vibration to at least help the stress relief faster. and you can test its resonance frequency cheaply by hitting and analyze the sound using spectrum analyzer. you can do it using android or your pc using microphone. you'll see how the frequency respons will move after hours of vibrating the structure. watch it until it's kinda give you a steady respons.. and filling with something to dampen vibration is the last thing to do.. just milling the linear rail surface will not going to give you accurate machine to a well-known standard, precision hand scraping, grinding or lapping is the way to go to get a measurable precision machine.. If you cannot measure it, you cannot improve it.
This is why is hard to make a welded structure , if u dont have tools to make it , all can weld , but not all have the tools to make stress relief , and make a good structure for a good cnc .
@@matthiashilber2043 se manda a talleres especificos que tienes hornos grandes para eliminar tensiones y con un costo muy economico..el alivio de stres en piezas soldadas es el dia a dia en la industria del mecanizado
@@matthiashilber2043 any heat that will reach its annealing temperature will help, starting at about 260degC.. better than not doing anything at all. the aim is to reach the annealing temperature uniformly, hold it for a while. and cooling down to room temperature very slowly.. you'll need a very good heat insulation. for days if possible. annealing only at slightly higher than 260degC with proper technique really help tremendously. but in a precision machine production, they tend to age the structure like for months or even years. they really let it rust outdoor. but then, actually its not that hard. for mild steel this thick and size a simple hitting with hammer is proven to speed up relief some of the stress, and it does help a lot.. you just don't want your structure suddenly bowing in unpredicted manner. its like a ticking time bomb, and start ticking as you weld. when this machine finished and start to introduce vibration like from rotation of the spindle or the tool without proper stress relief it will definitely release some of the stress and will start to change its geometry. if its me. I'll do whatever i can and keep measuring its critical dimension for days and after each try. and keep trying until its stable to a degree that is acceptable. you'll never know until you really try yourself. i wish you good luck trying.
What do you think about milling the linear rail surfaces? Should I send it to somebody with a big gantry milling machine? Or should I try to manage it myself on my own milling machine making several holding setups? I'm still not sure about that. Thanks for watching!
i think its always best to get it done in one go with work holding changes. How accurate do you want your ways? if it were me, i'd get a price for a bigger machine to do it in one setup.
@@JulianMakes I want it as accurate as possible within reasonable price - I'm trying to keep in mind that it is just a homemade machine made for fun, haha! :) But I think you might be right - it might be worth paying more to get it right
@@GBWM_CNC paga por que el trabajo te lo haga una maquina grande cnc y asi te evitas problemas y ganas tiempo y precision...el dinero del pobre va tres veces a la tienda..un saludo
impressive work.. though I would look into angular cutters (hss or carbide tipped) for any holes larger than 12mm. I wonder how ure going to heat stress relieve this (if any)? I'm also curious how ure going to mill the important surfaces without a big machine (if that's the path) as it will involve some sort of optical flat provisioning method that I haven't seen much in the DIY scene yet?
thanks! I'm using the drills I have if I can do what I need with them :) About the stress relief - I'm still thinking how to deal with that before milling. Maybe some kind of heating + some hammering. About the milling - I have a possibility to take it to a big milling machine which I'll probably do. I thought initially about milling using 5-6 setups with my metal milling machine but it would be really difficult to set it up each time withing like 0,01mm each time - I was going to try my best but reading all comments over here - people convinced me to not to do it, haha! :)
@@GBWM_CNC afaik the whole part needs to be soaked at ~600 degC for a couple hours and then cooled slowly back to room-temp, ideally in a non-oxygen atmosphere for stress relieving. A one time "kiln" from some cheap brick might do the trick? Without this the subsequent precision milling (or scraping) will be for naught as material removal will lead to the part deforming under it's own stresses.. so yeah. Keep up the good work!
Could you maybe elaborate on the weld sequencing? How do you choose which weld to perform next based on the deflection of the previous weld sequence? Thanks for showing this impressive project!
Sure. Well actually the weld usually pulls the welded piece in the direction of the weld just when the material starts to shrink. I'm not a professional in my opinion, but from my experience sometimes when I see the angle get's in one direction - welding on the opposite corner helps to straighten it up. Also when welding such a frame it helps to weld some welds from one side of the frame and then turn it around and weld the other side so all the stress is kind of canceled during the process. That takes a lot of experience to do it properly (i'm lacking still experience) but it is possible to somehow control the stress in the material. It's also crucial to prevent weld breakage later. Some welders also do preheat the material before welding, so there is less heat input stress involved during the welding (the stress is caused by temperature differences in different zones of the material - the material shrinks in different time which causes stress and therefore deflection). This is what I observed during some of my work - hopefully I'm not writing any stupid things here - haha! :) Maybe I'll make a video someday showing some examples what happens when material is welded and the deflection occours.
@@GBWM_CNC This makes sense. Thanks for the explanation! Rewatching the video, I seem to understand what you did. Welding distortion seems like the final boss of welding to me ;) Looking forward to the next part of the build! I was lucky enough to find an old lathe bed for my own cnc build, but DIY is much more exciting!
I decided to try vibrational stress relief. I will make myself a vibrating device and some small acceleration sensing aperture. I will give it a try and we will see how it performed. Heat treat would be good though
@@GBWM_CNC Are you planning to use an AC motor as a motor? What CNC control card will you use? And finally, I have a Mitsubishi AC servo. Can you help me control it with Mach3? I looked at the pin connections, but I could not find the pulse and dir pins.
@@emreturhan2991 I'm going to use AC servos on all axis and spindle. About your servo - it depends what kind of communication it uses. I've had experience with servos with step+dir signals but I've never tried hooking up rs232 / ethercat / analog servos with cnc cards
if you are going to fill it up with just sand or gravel use both to increase the density, if instead, you want to fill with epoxy granite use just sand because using a mixture of sand and gravel doesn't let the epoxy fill all the gaps resulting in a lot of air inside the cast and consequently a less dense block
When I watch such DIY machine makings, I always ask myself, as everyone knows about the problems related with stress after welding, why don't people just make it with a bolt and nut connection machine at every place and no welding at all? What will be the pros and cons of this?
Intento hacer lo mejor que puedo, pero lamentablemente estoy ocupado con muchas cosas últimamente, por lo que el proyecto avanzará lentamente. ¡La yerba mate es increíble!
Excellent welder, you are... machinist?.... You're on your way. Your lack of spot drills is disturbing though LOL When drilling large diameter holes or any holes you need to be precisely located, use a spot drill 1st. Make a little dimple .5mm deep. Doesn't need to be super deep. Put in the drill bit you want to use. The dimple from the spot drill will direct the drill bit into the material so there is a straight and precisely located hole. Plus if you're using a long shank drill, the bit doesn't walk around on the surface of the material. I've seen people use concrete for filling in the frame. Add weight. Reduces vibration. Strong work, sir!
Usually I'm spot drilling but the stiff milling machine spindle made me too much confident and I've gone with direct aiming for the right size, haha! :) I'll try to improve next time! :)
co to za tarcza do ciecia, która tak zachwalasz? Fajny projekt. Ramę wypełniłbym żywicą z piaskiem kwarcowym. W konsystencji takiej gęstej papki. Dodatkowo usztywni konstrukcję, a odpowiednia proporcja nie powykrzywia ramy podczas schnięcia. No i finalnie powstanie monolit, a nie grzechotka ;)
To są cubitrony. Co prawda nie miałem na celu robić jakiejś ich reklamy, ale one reklamują się same - jedna tarcza wytrzymuje tyle, co kilka innych tarcz a prędkość cięcia widoczna na filmie. Co do wypełnienia, to jeszcze mam z tyłu głowy, że chciałbym mieć potencjalną możliwość opróżnienia tej ramy w razie czego i dlatego myślę nad czymś sypkim zamiast czegoś związanego.
@@GBWM_CNC na jednym z filmów na YT chłop wypełniał ramę frezarki piaskiem wymieszanym ze zużytym olejem silnikowym - nie dzwoniło, nie koroduje, a i można wysypać w razie czego
Piękna robota, gratulacje. Trzymam kciuki żeby się udało. Sam próbowałem kiedyś uspawać łoże do miniaturowej tokarki stołowej, niestety poległem. Nie poradziłem sobie z odkształceniami. Tyle że spawacz ze mnie żaden. Moje smarki elektrodą nijak się mają do Twoich spoin :) Pozdrawiam!
Manufactures would love to produce fabricated steel lathe beds but they dont because it doesn't work, so much stress in it from the welds means you can never get it to keep a zero.
@@GBWM_CNC a widzisz że spoina nie wtopiona jest i garbata? Pachwina w nabocznej to w najgorszym wypadku płaskie lico ma mieć. Nie wróżę tej maszynie poprawnej pracy jak spawać nie potrafisz. Uchwyt 15, drut pewnie 0.8? I do tego chińska spawarka?
sand is not so dense, so it is a good idea to mix both sand and gravel together with epoxy and fill it with that, should give the best results. Looks super heavy duty btw
I think I'd go with the sand / gravel mix but without epoxy so there would be a possibility to remove the it if necessary
@@GBWM_CNC go for it
@@GBWM_CNC Sand with thick motor oil.
@@tugrulcagr7640 that would sound interesting
@@GBWM_CNC It will also give you thermal stability. Gets hot or cold more evenly.
Hi! gorgeous welds. Just a thought regarding the hollow tube fill, you will get a greater mean density and improved damping properties if you vary the particle size. e.g. sand and small gravel. Easily reversible too. Epoxy granite is the classic solution here, but that can be an expensive business with all of the resins and experimentation - you also need to make sure your media is very dry. There are also some low-shrinkage cement mixes and additives which would likely work well too, but would likely benefit from mesh or bars welded into the tubes.
Hi! That's a good hint! I'll consider mixing up sand and gravel for that!
Epoxy granite maybe
@@GBWM_CNC
There is a series of videos on RUclips about a prof of mechanical engineering iirc. He has an Air Bearing lathe with the bed made from granite parallels epoxied together.
Sika Grout have ready to go no shrinkage mixes for that , they designed to repleace epoxy granite etc , cost fraction of epoxy granite mix
@@ErtsenPlayGames Could you post a link to it or tell me the exact name?
Went on a tour of Ingersoll in Rockford Illinois once. To stress relieve the large weldments for some machines they had ovens up to 60 feet long and 12 feet in diameter. Definitely see the need her for stress relieving.
no stress relief? as someone who makes a living from calibrating precision machine tool i suggest.. as you introduce so much stress in those steel. surely, they will keep moving like crazy even after years.. try annealing if you can. or at least use vibration to at least help the stress relief faster. and you can test its resonance frequency cheaply by hitting and analyze the sound using spectrum analyzer. you can do it using android or your pc using microphone. you'll see how the frequency respons will move after hours of vibrating the structure. watch it until it's kinda give you a steady respons.. and filling with something to dampen vibration is the last thing to do.. just milling the linear rail surface will not going to give you accurate machine to a well-known standard, precision hand scraping, grinding or lapping is the way to go to get a measurable precision machine.. If you cannot measure it, you cannot improve it.
This is why is hard to make a welded structure , if u dont have tools to make it , all can weld , but not all have the tools to make stress relief , and make a good structure for a good cnc .
But how to do it with a big steel structure? Does heating with a butane torch would help? Regards
@@matthiashilber2043 se manda a talleres especificos que tienes hornos grandes para eliminar tensiones y con un costo muy economico..el alivio de stres en piezas soldadas es el dia a dia en la industria del mecanizado
@@matthiashilber2043 any heat that will reach its annealing temperature will help, starting at about 260degC.. better than not doing anything at all. the aim is to reach the annealing temperature uniformly, hold it for a while. and cooling down to room temperature very slowly.. you'll need a very good heat insulation. for days if possible. annealing only at slightly higher than 260degC with proper technique really help tremendously. but in a precision machine production, they tend to age the structure like for months or even years. they really let it rust outdoor.
but then, actually its not that hard. for mild steel this thick and size a simple hitting with hammer is proven to speed up relief some of the stress, and it does help a lot.. you just don't want your structure suddenly bowing in unpredicted manner. its like a ticking time bomb, and start ticking as you weld. when this machine finished and start to introduce vibration like from rotation of the spindle or the tool without proper stress relief it will definitely release some of the stress and will start to change its geometry.
if its me. I'll do whatever i can and keep measuring its critical dimension for days and after each try. and keep trying until its stable to a degree that is acceptable. you'll never know until you really try yourself.
i wish you good luck trying.
It helps , best is if u make it , weld , and let it for a 1 year to settle if u dont have an oven to heat it .
What do you think about milling the linear rail surfaces? Should I send it to somebody with a big gantry milling machine? Or should I try to manage it myself on my own milling machine making several holding setups? I'm still not sure about that.
Thanks for watching!
i think its always best to get it done in one go with work holding changes. How accurate do you want your ways? if it were me, i'd get a price for a bigger machine to do it in one setup.
@@JulianMakes I want it as accurate as possible within reasonable price - I'm trying to keep in mind that it is just a homemade machine made for fun, haha! :) But I think you might be right - it might be worth paying more to get it right
@@GBWM_CNC paga por que el trabajo te lo haga una maquina grande cnc y asi te evitas problemas y ganas tiempo y precision...el dinero del pobre va tres veces a la tienda..un saludo
Chłopie nie wyprowadzisz nigdy geometrii beż narzędzi. Lepiej zapłacić tysiaka i mieć spokój i mnóstwo czasu zaoszczędzone
No i zapowiada się ciekawa machina.
Kibicuję 👌
Mam nadzieję, że efekt też będzie ciekawy w pozytywnym tego słowa znaczeniu! :)
impressive work.. though I would look into angular cutters (hss or carbide tipped) for any holes larger than 12mm. I wonder how ure going to heat stress relieve this (if any)? I'm also curious how ure going to mill the important surfaces without a big machine (if that's the path) as it will involve some sort of optical flat provisioning method that I haven't seen much in the DIY scene yet?
thanks! I'm using the drills I have if I can do what I need with them :) About the stress relief - I'm still thinking how to deal with that before milling. Maybe some kind of heating + some hammering. About the milling - I have a possibility to take it to a big milling machine which I'll probably do. I thought initially about milling using 5-6 setups with my metal milling machine but it would be really difficult to set it up each time withing like 0,01mm each time - I was going to try my best but reading all comments over here - people convinced me to not to do it, haha! :)
@@GBWM_CNC afaik the whole part needs to be soaked at ~600 degC for a couple hours and then cooled slowly back to room-temp, ideally in a non-oxygen atmosphere for stress relieving. A one time "kiln" from some cheap brick might do the trick?
Without this the subsequent precision milling (or scraping) will be for naught as material removal will lead to the part deforming under it's own stresses.. so yeah.
Keep up the good work!
Could you maybe elaborate on the weld sequencing? How do you choose which weld to perform next based on the deflection of the previous weld sequence?
Thanks for showing this impressive project!
Sure. Well actually the weld usually pulls the welded piece in the direction of the weld just when the material starts to shrink. I'm not a professional in my opinion, but from my experience sometimes when I see the angle get's in one direction - welding on the opposite corner helps to straighten it up. Also when welding such a frame it helps to weld some welds from one side of the frame and then turn it around and weld the other side so all the stress is kind of canceled during the process. That takes a lot of experience to do it properly (i'm lacking still experience) but it is possible to somehow control the stress in the material. It's also crucial to prevent weld breakage later. Some welders also do preheat the material before welding, so there is less heat input stress involved during the welding (the stress is caused by temperature differences in different zones of the material - the material shrinks in different time which causes stress and therefore deflection). This is what I observed during some of my work - hopefully I'm not writing any stupid things here - haha! :) Maybe I'll make a video someday showing some examples what happens when material is welded and the deflection occours.
@@GBWM_CNC This makes sense. Thanks for the explanation! Rewatching the video, I seem to understand what you did. Welding distortion seems like the final boss of welding to me ;) Looking forward to the next part of the build!
I was lucky enough to find an old lathe bed for my own cnc build, but DIY is much more exciting!
@@lordlorz i was thinking about the same. Hopefully you're going to mount linear rails instead of using the factory rails?
I recommend that you relieve the stress on the metal before flattening. You can heat treat it.
I decided to try vibrational stress relief. I will make myself a vibrating device and some small acceleration sensing aperture. I will give it a try and we will see how it performed. Heat treat would be good though
@@GBWM_CNC Are you planning to use an AC motor as a motor? What CNC control card will you use? And finally, I have a Mitsubishi AC servo. Can you help me control it with Mach3? I looked at the pin connections, but I could not find the pulse and dir pins.
@@emreturhan2991 I'm going to use AC servos on all axis and spindle. About your servo - it depends what kind of communication it uses. I've had experience with servos with step+dir signals but I've never tried hooking up rs232 / ethercat / analog servos with cnc cards
Your work great my friend
My what is your welder name I want to get one but I'm not how, here I saw cost 105$ is it good?
You have any recommendations
Thanks my friend! :)
Veo que mejoraste en tu forma de preparar el mate! Felicitaciones! 😄
¡Estoy haciendo mi mejor esfuerzo! :)
Viva el chimarrón! \o/
Great, great video!
Vava la yerba!
thanks! :)
Was that flux core welding or you just do regular mig?
It was regular mig
What is the size of the frame and what is the size of the profile pipe. Thank you.
Its 80x80x5mm
if you are going to fill it up with just sand or gravel use both to increase the density, if instead, you want to fill with epoxy granite use just sand because using a mixture of sand and gravel doesn't let the epoxy fill all the gaps resulting in a lot of air inside the cast and consequently a less dense block
I think the sand + gravel mix should be good without the epoxy so I'll be able to remove it if needed
Faci treaba buna! Eu lucrez numai in inox, fabric masini de gogosi, masini de covrigi si divizoare de aluat pentru paine!
Mulțumiri! Ai propriul tău magazin sau lucrezi într-o fabrică?
When I watch such DIY machine makings, I always ask myself, as everyone knows about the problems related with stress after welding, why don't people just make it with a bolt and nut connection machine at every place and no welding at all? What will be the pros and cons of this?
Estás hecho un artista felicidades!!!
¡Me alegra mucho oír eso, jaja! :)
good job my friend
thank you my friend! :)
👍👍👍 czekam na więcej ! 😀
Wszystko wymaga czasu, ale powoli idzie do przodu! :)
Muy buen video amigo te felicito espero verlo terminado pronto saludos. Ah pero me sigue intrigando tu gusto por el mate .
Intento hacer lo mejor que puedo, pero lamentablemente estoy ocupado con muchas cosas últimamente, por lo que el proyecto avanzará lentamente. ¡La yerba mate es increíble!
nice job。建议使用粗糙的大颗粒砂子与砾石，用6：4的比例混合（这个比例取决于充填材料的硬度和粗糙度），然后用环氧树脂混合后充填。最好能在金属框架的内部增加一些不规则的突起，可以改善能量传递效果。
谢谢你的提示！
Congratulations is this your second DIY cnc leath machine ???
Thanks but the works isn't finished at all, haha! yes - it's my second one and this time I'm trying to adjust my faults from the first one
Perfect👍
💪 :)
Excellent welder, you are... machinist?.... You're on your way. Your lack of spot drills is disturbing though LOL
When drilling large diameter holes or any holes you need to be precisely located, use a spot drill 1st. Make a little dimple .5mm deep. Doesn't need to be super deep. Put in the drill bit you want to use. The dimple from the spot drill will direct the drill bit into the material so there is a straight and precisely located hole. Plus if you're using a long shank drill, the bit doesn't walk around on the surface of the material.
I've seen people use concrete for filling in the frame. Add weight. Reduces vibration.
Strong work, sir!
Usually I'm spot drilling but the stiff milling machine spindle made me too much confident and I've gone with direct aiming for the right size, haha! :) I'll try to improve next time! :)
big project
Definitely!
Are drawings available for you machine ?
This machine is still in progress. At the end drawings will be available but there is still much work in front of me
co to za tarcza do ciecia, która tak zachwalasz?
Fajny projekt. Ramę wypełniłbym żywicą z piaskiem kwarcowym. W konsystencji takiej gęstej papki. Dodatkowo usztywni konstrukcję, a odpowiednia proporcja nie powykrzywia ramy podczas schnięcia. No i finalnie powstanie monolit, a nie grzechotka ;)
To są cubitrony. Co prawda nie miałem na celu robić jakiejś ich reklamy, ale one reklamują się same - jedna tarcza wytrzymuje tyle, co kilka innych tarcz a prędkość cięcia widoczna na filmie.
Co do wypełnienia, to jeszcze mam z tyłu głowy, że chciałbym mieć potencjalną możliwość opróżnienia tej ramy w razie czego i dlatego myślę nad czymś sypkim zamiast czegoś związanego.
@@GBWM_CNC na jednym z filmów na YT chłop wypełniał ramę frezarki piaskiem wymieszanym ze zużytym olejem silnikowym - nie dzwoniło, nie koroduje, a i można wysypać w razie czego
@@tricipici8821 To też jest interesujący pomysł!
Piękna robota, gratulacje. Trzymam kciuki żeby się udało. Sam próbowałem kiedyś uspawać łoże do miniaturowej tokarki stołowej, niestety poległem. Nie poradziłem sobie z odkształceniami. Tyle że spawacz ze mnie żaden. Moje smarki elektrodą nijak się mają do Twoich spoin :) Pozdrawiam!
Zobaczymy co się okaże, gdy rama trafi do frezowania :) Dzięki i pozdrawiam!
ништяк!
:)
Manufactures would love to produce fabricated steel lathe beds but they dont because it doesn't work, so much stress in it from the welds means you can never get it to keep a zero.
I'm not 100% sure but I've heard some manufacturers actually produce such machines :D
super!
💪😁
@@GBWM_CNC Where are you from? I live in Alba Iulia city, Romania.
@@sergiucioanca8763 Poland over here
Muito bom !
obrigado! :)
look for high performance cement for machine beds its damn expensive but it wont shrink that much and make this frame rigid
That would be so cool but I but I'm not the best at using cement - I prefer metal, haha! :) Well, in metal I'm not best too, but i'm giving my best :D
mate?
yes!
Wez chłopie pradu dołóż bo te spoinki garbate to nic nie trzymają, te pachwiny to same przyklejenia.
160A to mało? :D
@@GBWM_CNC a widzisz że spoina nie wtopiona jest i garbata? Pachwina w nabocznej to w najgorszym wypadku płaskie lico ma mieć. Nie wróżę tej maszynie poprawnej pracy jak spawać nie potrafisz. Uchwyt 15, drut pewnie 0.8? I do tego chińska spawarka?
@@Micha-nd1cs owszem, uchwyt 15, drut 0,8 i na domiar złego chińska spawarka :/
@@GBWM_CNC no właśnie, i na gwóźdź do trumny chiński półautomaty zasilany 230v?
@@Micha-nd1cs wszystko się zgadza, no nic to nie spawa :(