Final Fantasy XVI & Masculinity
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2023
- FF16 is a big game with many things. many cool things, but also some less cool things. this video is about those things.
#ff16 #finalfantasy16 #finalfantasy #gamereview #essay 
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Umbrage tho. Dank bro.
LET'S GOOOO
Just to clear up something.
The woman that are friends with CID are their to help him in his goals. It doesn't say he slept with all of them.
Also benadikta sleeps around only because her boss barnabas told her too. CID wasn't scolding her for having sex, it was because she was only going it for a tyrant king that doesn't care about her.
Annabella is basically the female mortal version of Ultima. Both are obsessed with their place in the world and rising above everyone else to be “in their right place” Even the “love” she has for Joshua and Olivier is very narcissistic and self-absorbed, since she quickly found a new reason to rise to the top the moment her crappy plan nearly murdered Joshua.
It’s no surprise Olivier ended up a meatsuit of Ultima. He had to do nothing to corrupt Annabella or the Emperor, they both corrupt by their own hands and he needs only to play the role of the child.
I do really like the new villains. They behave like people you or I could meet.
Not that there is anything bad with older, more cartoonish ones.
It’s not “daddy was good to the slaves” it’s dad was actively trying to get them recognized as equals and died before he could see that dream come to fruition meaning his sons had to continue that legacy.
Agreed, I think they kind of needed his character to be painted in a positive light because they wanted people to understand that no matter how good a persons intentions are, within an inherently flawed and oppressive system it simply doesn’t matter, dad was simply not able to do it, you can’t change anything from the inside, but by changing the status quo Clive can achieve his father’s dream.
As much as I've seen this echoed, it feels like too little too late. You find out about Papa Rosfield's intentions in a single cutscene capping off an optional endgame sidequest.
I think that the sidequests in XVI are basically mandatory if you want to really absorb the themes and all the dope character work, but this is also an example of how it can be a problem. Nothing in young Clive's interactions with his dad or any prior story-relevant scenes speak to this struggle. It feels like an afterthought, which (in my opinion) is what happens to the Bearer/Slavery plot threads as a whole.
They created a world with a societal problem you couldn't punch and solve, but then condensed every single issue into...a God you could punch, which would solve the problem.
I appreciate the effort, I don't love the execution.
@@Miksho7 Just before the fight with Titan Clive tells Byron he was “raised in a nation that sought to lighten the bearer plight” or something close to that, and that is was his father that began this ideal. So it was brought up that’s what Elwin always wanted, in a pretty pivotal scene, too.
Also I think a main point of the game is that often in oppressive systems violent revolution and a change to the status quo is the only thing that will bring real change. So saying all you do is punch a god to fix society is disingenuous (even if Ultima is a great embodiment of the game’s themes regarding class and the use of people as tools and resources). You also kill the great leaders that perpetuate the system and use it to subjugate the bearers, remember Cid theorises that many leaders might already know the mother crystals are fucked up, but that truth is inconvenient to them.
@@TheRustyLampPost Tbf. wanting to "lighten the bearer plight" doesn't really say much in terms of liberation, it's an implication at best which isn't really enough. But I agree that Clive killing world leaders that perpetuate slavery does help promote a more revolutionary reading
Ultimately, for me, we didn't spend enough time as young Clive in Rosaria to really get a feel for his father or how Rosaria treated it's Bearers.
The time we got as young Clive was just right to get what we need for the greater story, but I'd want a young Clive and Bearer-Assassin Clive DLCs to flesh them out.
What I find cool about Final Fantasy protagonists like Cloud or Tidus is how vulnerable they actually are.
Like damn Tidus is showing emotion even if it's cringy laughing.
And Cloud isn't an edgy self-insert for the kid playing the game.
He kinda is the kid wanting to be an edgy teen hero.
They didn't destroy crystals to free the bearers from magic, they destroyed crystals because they were sucking the life of the land. In fact they were trying to free the bearers by creating a network of likeminded people and a literal utopia of equal people in the hideaway
"Curing" people of a born aspect that causes them to be treated differently in a society is ALWAYS poorly written, it doesn't matter how else you intend to explain it.
@@samwill7259 Then did they even try to "cure" them? This sounds made up.
@@samwill7259 The thing is though, that the intention was never to "cure" the bearers. Clive nuking magic out of existence was completely incidental. Cid even makes the point that, in the proposed plan, things are going to get much worse for the Bearers before things get better. The purpose of taking away the mothercrystals was to force society out of dependence on magic, and thus eventually make the ability to do magic no longer a sought-after commodity. The game never really tackles the power imbalance that a mothercrystal-less world would have, primarily because the characters are told the "born aspect" you are talking about was entirely created by an arguably malevolent god, and was never a "true" part of the people.
By trying to draw direct allegory to race or disability, you yourself are making the writing nasty. The writing isn't inherently nasty.
@@samuelcampbell1730 If it is something immutable that people are born with, regardless of source or other use in story, then it becomes a racial allegory. That's just how the context is going to read, universally. This is basic writing knowledge that people have. Even if you didn't intend it to be a racial allegory, it is one, because that's just how it's going to be read. Period.
@@samwill7259 That's just outright dumb and you are certainly wrong. Prejudice exists far outside of a purely racial basis and you are extrapolating what I can only imagine is your own personal experience into some universal truth when it very much is not.
Prejudice can manifest from homophobia and misogyny, for example, both targeting things that the victim is born as. So, again, by boxing in the Bearers as an allegory for one particular real-life incident of prejudice, you yourself are making the writing nasty. Your own preconceived notions and personal interpretations are not "basic writing knowledge".
And, as I'm sure you'd agree, implying that Maehiro's writing is an allegory for how minorities should just stop being minorities magically IRL is absurd.
I absolutely adored XVI but Thor absolutely hit the nail on the head re: female characters in the game. Jill, when she got to do things, was phenomenal, but she was absolutely at best tangential to the story and development, pushed out whenever convenient.
I haven't played it myself, but I assume it's a fujo-centric game. They just want to see hot guys bro-ing out with other hot guys. Any women in the story actively gets in the way of that.
Jill is Shiva. Shiva through out the franchise focuses her attention on aiding ther heroes.
@@happymate8943then why give her personality at all if they're going to take 1 step forward tor every 2 steps back. Why develop her at all or allow her to have meaning? If it's *just* to service Clive's growth as a character, most people would label that as poor storytelling. If that's not the intent then they simply should have fleshed Jill out properly and given her more time to shine
@@happymate8943 The same could be said of Ifrit, Ramuh, Titan, and Bahamut, and yet their Dominants get a lot more agency. And even if that weren't the case, "this is how it's always been" is never a good excuse to keep archaic and outmoded tropes and cliches alive.
@@walksinrain
Likely because she's also Clive/ifrits lover. In ff series both ifrit and Shiva are either enemies, rivals, lovers. They probably don't want her to be bland imo.
Although looking back , other than the cult on fire island, she doesn't seem to focus on any goals for herself only for clive's safety and his goals.
Those aren’t CID’s “side bitches” they are characters who have an actual relationship with him and support him and his cause.
It’s even revealed that cid owes these women a huge debt for helping him fund the hideaway in the first place.
Cid even set aside a rare jewel for each of these characters has payment for these massive debts and the quest ends with each of the women saying how they aren’t helping for monetary gains or anything in return
They just support cid and his views.
Exactly how i read it, surprisingly most of the villages are run by smart, compassionate and strong women. And i just accepted it as part of the world. I wasn't amazed by it because i believe that drawing attention to it undermines it. It was good writing in my opinion because it felt seamless
Thank you for saying this
And if any of them really did have affairs with Cid it is completely justified because it is Cid.
I feel like I had the same problems with Thor on the writing of some themes, it really came as awkward when the things he mentioned came up. IMO the greatest gripe with XVI is that, almost all of the side content contains VITAL information about the world and the characters that get sidelined, and in the last 10 or so hours the game bombards you with so much side shit that it really can miss the point much than it already does.
I think the game tackles a lot of themes it either a) wasn't equipped to deal with, or b) didn't have the stones to commit to in lieu of spectacle.
@@LilMissThorFeel exactly the same. They wanted to tackle big themes without having to come to grips with the severity of the topics that's itself unavoidable and that killed any possible resonance it might have had for me.
I really feel like Anabella was a deliberate homage-via-trope of Cercei, just processed thru the tropes of a JRPG.
The number one change I'd have made in this game would be Benedickta having a face turn instead of just dying at the end of her fight with Clive
more like ripoff
The parallels with Cersei Lannister are obvious, but I feel that it falls flat without all the context that Cersei enjoyed, notably her father's fucked-up views of Lannister superiority and the fact that she worked as much for her family as she did for herself. Anabella is very proud of her bloodline and family, but she seems to be the only member of her family still around and she doesn't even have a last name of her own.
Mmm I mean if you study history you'd realize there were a ton of Anabellas and Cerceis, GOT didn't invent the wheel dude haha
@@kar12894 Edgelord.
Ondore's medievaly journal interstitials in FF12 are some of the best writing in that game, I love it: "The Treaty would be signed with Steel and Writ in royal Blood", beautiful language.
All around the English localization for FF12 is phenomenal and part of what makes it one of the best games ever made.
Agreed. To everything you said
I love the classically trained theatre actors they hired for that game, a lot of the dialogue couldn't have been pulled off by lesser actors. "Too late and to their sorrow do those who misplace their trust in gods learn their fate!"
Everything about the writing even if you don't quite understand the finer details adds so much to that world and game. I found it so magical as a child and need to get back to replaying it.
yes, here! 12 did medieval-esque timelines and dialogue so much better than 16! It sounded way too modern with all the F-bombs being dropped like they were teens, sure Square drew inspiration from GoT, but only in the first few hours, then it all fell apart :(
thats where most of the script problems stem from in the early games... "Localization" ...since woolsey was notoriously loose with actually translating it and instead making it more palatable for the 'murican audience, which lead to less fantasy and more modern speech. this is why you get silly memes like "Spooney Bard".
I've personally had a sort of disappointment on how much media focuses on like the big angry guy perspective. This video is great like all the rest of your content but it's nice to see you talking on something you got some personal opinions on and stuff. Opening up and talking about stuff a little is cool and im glad your cozy enough with your audience to talk on these sorts of things
While I take issue with some of the perspectives expressed here, I can agree to this point for sure.
I too am glad Thor is able to share and be intimate with his audience in this way.
parasocial relationships, not even once
I was really disappointed by Jill being mostly there to support Clive. The section where she gets to be the focus felt really forced to me. She keeps saying things like, "Clive I need you to understand that I have to do this." To which Clive is always like, "Yeah, I totally get it." Then you don't get to play as her, not even as Shiva. Shit was a let down for me. There's the basis for a great character there. Maybe she'll get some DLC attention.
She’s probably not the main character obviously and to be completely honest there’s like a dozen characters in the game that need shine. The crux of the story is literally Joshua and Clive.
@@1kbmahan exactly. it's a tale of two brothers. Jill is important to both of them. especially Clive but, she is not the focus. it is a little disapointing that she didn't get much after Barnabas but, really at that stage it was full steam ahead on the Joshua Clive let's end this train.
I never liked Jill, the main theme of the story was brotherhood between Joshua and Clive, yet the dog got more screen time than both brothers together, also 18 years is a LONG time. I despise timeskips, let alone 2 in a single story😤
I’m so glad Thor loved the towns in the game. Fresh break from so many people criticizing the map layouts
I am so excited you felt like sharing this about yourself ♡
“There’s nothing more Masculine than to wear clothes that you want or clothes that make you feel ‘handsome’ , and to not let the opinions of others to sway your thoughts.” - My Mum (Single Parent trying to raise a Boy into a Man)❣️
That's terrible advice
I did not get the impression that Cid slept with characters like Martha or Eloise. (Isabelle? Absolutely.) Those two gals run non-brothel businesses, and Cid's biggest strength was the ability to form networks with both men and women.
All I really wanted was more Jill time. Hoping that if they do add DLCs, we get more of Benedikta's story, and more of just what Jill did during those five years to make it so dangerous for her to prime.
When they implied Jill and Clive were pining I could feel the faith I had in Jill being nuanced in any way completely trickling down the drain. The romance between them should have never happened. There's nothing wrong with a romance between two lead characters but the two were raised as siblings; making it incredibly difficult to be interested in their relationship as a couple without it being creepy. That writing decision made it clear to me that the writers did not care who they were pairing together and only wanted an excuse to affirm Clive's heterosexuality.
@@canhedotricks6078bro wut you babbling man
@@canhedotricks6078she was sent to rosaria as a deal for peace, as a potential bride. I admit i thought they were siblings but they were childhood friends. Really says more about you than the writers if you read it as creepy
@@dongodongo12 My bad, I misinterpreted the politics.
@@dongodongo12 Yeah, I always got the impression she was meant to unite the two houses, but because the Northern Lands were about to be lost to the Blight, they went with the tradition of sending her as a foster so she could be raised as a bride for one of the sons in the future.
Anabella would probably have never allowed Joshua to marry a "savage" so Clive was the next logical choice, but I also think Elwin would have let the kids decide for themselves, too. He knew first hand how painful a loveless arranged marriage could be.
It sucks that Jill's arc ended after the beach scene, but it was a fantastic scene imo. I felt the transfer of power and choosing to carry more burden so Jill's life could be spared from the curse was sweet, though I wish she was still around more after. Only time you get to use her again is after the flowers sidequest (which I also loved), and it shows that she can still use her ice abilities.
I wish she would have gone with you to the final battle tbh. She could have primed one more time, like Dion.
To be fair all Dominants are bearers as well so Jill had innate abilities independent of Shiva. Didn’t make it less annoying that she was sidelined in favor of Dion riding off with the brothers.
@@gateauxq4604 I get the reason why, b/c her curse was progressing faster due to her overuse of Shiva during her servitude to the Ironbloods & the few times it accelerated afterward, but still. That's a writing contrivance to keep Jill out of the final battle that could have been avoided. I liked having Dion up there, but it would have been even cooler having the Ice Queen too.
Pun fully intended.
@@gateauxq4604@StormSnake0618 ...So I haven't played XVI yet but that sounds like... did they just make Ysayle again?
Dion was ready to die. He actually _wanted_ to die. By that time, Jill had found a reason to live again. There was a real risk that priming one final time would cause Dion to lose control (as it did with Benedikta and Hugo) but he managed to keep control to the end. It's why he's got a dumb grin on his face even as he's falling at Origin. He felt like he had atoned for his previous loss of control with his maintaining control that last final time.
@@katarh It's frustrating that Dion was kept in his doom spiral: his lover was still alive, he bonded with the Medicine Girl and, if you did the side quest, he was able to reunite with his old tutor and made a promise to meet again. Them killing off Dion, albeit in a grandiose fashion, while Joshua, Jill and (maybe) Clive survive makes it more seem like he was a viable target for a dramatic sacrifice because he was the Gay Guy.
You talking about when you found out Kuja was a dude reminds me of the first time I played FF7 for the first time six or so years ago and thought Sephiroth was 50 years old or older because of his gray hair.
I felt the portrayal of women npcs was better than most games I play. You had Marta and the Dame actually have important fleshed out quest lines. I agree about Jill though, they throw her so far to the wayside I thought they like wrote a part of the story with her out or added her after a bunch of quests. She just never talks to anyone really aside from Clive.
Benedictas story ended in kind of a dumb way too I agree
@@heepispeepis
I agree with Benedikta's story being cut needlessly short. The story can still have Hugo go after "Cid" by having Waloed send a fake vindictive letter to him written by "her."
@@J-manli Yeah its strange how after the fight shes just laying there uninjured and they decide to just leave and the scene is over and later with Hugo they tell you she's dead
Idk why thor thinks is implied she slept with Cid
@@1chibanKasugai never assumed cid slept with anybody, especially when at the beginning of the game you find out through a sidequest he has a daughter. Not that it would be impossible for him to sleep around but still i just thought he used his charisma to get to know the powerful women who are leaders in their respective villages
"Kill god with the power of friendship" the ending to every Jrpg ever
Queer guy, if that matters at all. Cool video, Thor. You're the best type of influencer. Thanks for doing it.
ThorHighHeels's editing never disappoints 👠👠
Your continued usage of Killer 7 sound effects is amazing.
I was really really REALLY trying to save this video for after I had played the game since I wanted to go in full no spoilers, but I cracked after 2 weeks- I can't miss a Thor video talking about Final Fantasy, I just can't!!
Worth the spoilers tbh LOL. I really like how you talk about the FF franchise as one that skirts around a lot of the default misogyny that comes with a lot of stuff in a similar vein (even other stuff published by Square!). I think that's an aspect of the series that NEVER gets talked about enough, especially with how popular the series is among women and queer people, and the way the series has been historically mocked or seen as "not real games" for that. You really put into words a lot of the concerns I had with XVI just from the marketing, especially as another in a string of recent FF releases that have been very bro-heavy. I can't speak for the game itself since I haven't played it, but I really appreciate your willingness to talk about it from that point of view, and to be critical of it, while not devolving into a "thing is bad and here's why" take.
Always love your insight Thor 🤘Thanks for always talking about the cool shit with such nuance
I'm at the very end of FFXVI, the giant amount of side stuff that popped up before the last dungeon got me a little burnt out, but I would say I enjoyed it for the most part. While I would say it's too early to say where I would place it on my personal list I appreciate how despite how grim dark it looked on the surface there is a ton of room for more light hearted and outright beautiful moments. Also very much dig those "looks like a real place vibe".
Great video again Thor. I was wondering about the bendikta scene before her transformation. I didn't think she was SA'ed there. I thought the garuda fusion triggered and blew away the dudes trying to touch her. I agree with your points about how they used her in the story. From the trailers, I thought she would be around for at least more than half the game as an on again off again villain.
Yeah I was confused about the SA comment as well
The game does this intense topic of separation between the "pure" people and Bearers, with so many plot points and side quests working towards making you see the suffering of the Bearers and how they're mistreated...
But the plot itself, the characters in the universe, look at that as the only separation in that world. Male characters don't necessarily verbally belittle women, they don't necessarily treat at them as "lesser", which at gave me a feeling of something akin to gender equality at first, but then the actions and writing made it more apparent just how much female objectification there was.
I have a hard time placing this into words, but what I felt during the game is this awkward separation between the established/desired setting and writing, concerning this matter of course. It felt like the objectification and having women as a plot drive for men was genuinely something the writers weren't self-aware of and was so normalized in their minds that they saw no issue in it - that's just how it be. And quite frankly, I even missed a lot of the things Thor pointed out because of how natural they tried making everything sound.
Not that the plot is bad - it's fucking great - but there's a lot of plot points that could be much more polished if there was a broader spectrum in the writers' mindsets.
I really, truly agree with the problems with Jill as a character, I feel like she gets precious little to do and fades more and more into the background when she's not allowed to be a Marvel vs Capcom assist and that's a shame because she seems cool.
And while I don't disagree with the problems with using SA in the case of Benedikta and others (which I assume is partially inspired by Berserk, potentially for the worse), I do think it's reductive to boil down Cid's "Is this how you want to live?" speech to just her sleeping around and not all the atrocities she committed in the name of an Empire, using her newfound power to prey upon others and make them feel as powerless as she herself once did.
When you recognise a voice actor and want to put a face to the voice... I'm OK with mapping voice actors faces or letting them create an avatar to use in games they appear in. Anyone else on board with me for that? Vocal and visual representation of the character, especially with such a recognizable voice. And if they voice multiple characters and reuse their voice (like Fry's voice actor in Futurama also playing a lot of the other dudes on the show) then they can have a few different avatars
Many of the aesthetics in this game even seem to be late coming responses to the complains that fifteen years ago some guys were making about FFXII not being more "serious and realistic", or it having a teen twink by main char and not the thirty yo rugged guy
16:00 It's in this regard that I'm less hard on XVI than I am with XV, because XV was very much a game about "guys doing guy things" but with a superficial and insincere element to it that saw Hajime Tabata say things like, "the addition of a female character as a party member would change how the men behave around each other", except even without the women around the bros were still somehow emotionally constipated and their shows of vulnerability and the resolution of their emotional arcs come in the late game, confined solely to DLC, or in Noctis's case, literally after the credits.
Where Clive is allowed to express a variety of emotions including his grief not reserved for "moments with his boys" while keeping a veneer of "cool indifference" around the girls, every time Noctis got even remotely upset about his dad or about Lunafreya, there would be a character there primed to tell him to shut up and that he was too coddled, but now he has to MAN UP and BE THE PROTECTOR. Noctis doesn't make any real overtures to Lunafreya or admits that he felt some way about her until she's already dead. Before that, he has the option to indifferently write "Got it" three consecutive times in the only times he ever communicates to her through his notebook. His tears for her are shed to thin air with no one around or while the other guys are KOed from hypothermia. Sarah in the DLC tells him he needs to be more honest about how he feels before it's too late, really going hard on the fact that he's holding in his emotions.
Gladio gets punked out by Ravus and feels emasculated, thus he goes on a manlyquest to swing his sword at things really hard and build up a literal Rage Meter, because he feels he isn't manning hard enough, and he gets lessons from Cor who admits he's kind of a fraud and didn't beat Gilgamesh as hard as people thought he did. There's some brief lip service to the idea that Gladio is afraid of failure, but this never comes back; he goes right back to telling Noctis to MAN UP and that he's CODDLED and HE NEEDS TO BE THE PROTECTOR when he's experiencing grief after Chapter 9, denying Noctis closure/mourning and the visit to Tenebrae that Luna literally asked him to do, in the belief that Noctis will simply give up.
Ignis's relationship to Noctis in the English version and his casting in general was supposed to evoke "cool stoic Sherlock-type" and "the Alfred Pennyworth to Noct's Bruce Wayne" and his DLC includes spiritual mentorship from Ravus to teach him how to be an older brother as Regis decreed him be since he was like, six, and his highly emotional moment (the almost zealous element to his overprotectiveness of Noct) comes when Noctis is out cold or absent, and no other guy is present/conscious to see him lose his cool except Ardyn; he dons his cool stoic "protect Noct" mask when the other men around return or awaken.
Prompto is the twinkest twink to ever twink in the party, and they all get their turns ribbing on him including implying he's still fat, or that he'll get fat if he so much as eats a burger. Guys like Gladio would bully guys like Prompto, easily. His character arc in Brotherhood is like a misread of The Little Mermaid in that he changes his entire appearance just to be worthy of the attention of the boy he fancies (Noctis), and all the boy ever said to him before then was _"you're heavy!"._ He performs a bunch of unrecognized emotional labor for the party only to be rewarded with snide remarks about how useless he is (or being shoved by his face on the train) and his character arc in his DLC centers around how useful he is to Noctis and his friends and needing validation from Noctis. The journey he undertakes in his DLC is never mentioned to the others, Aranea asks him what he wants for himself and his answer amounts to "join back with Noct and the others", and the one detail that keeps him going and maintains his faith in his friends is pretty much a lie: "Noctis told me to come look for you", when Noctis never told Aranea to do that. He's the youngest and the most waifish of the boys, and thus he's Damseled for Noctis to rescue in Gralea, a detail that never happens to Gladiolus or even to Ignis when _Ignis_ is kidnapped to Gralea in his own DLC-- Iggy's given free reign to wander around the compound!
Noctis defeats the antagonist Ardyn not by a display of empathy for what he's been through or any attempt to reason with him or purge him of his scourge by using healing ability, but by agreeing with God that Ardyn in all his flamboyance and non-conformity to traditional gender has to be killed in a fight. All because way back when, he used Oracle-like healer abilities as a Lucis Caelum when the lore states that power belongs to women, opposed to Somnus who is not a healer and instead burned infected bodies, where traditional Caelum powers are all about black magic and summoning offensive weaponry. This non-conformity left him "unclean" and rejected from kinghood. Ardyn, in the end, has to die by _swordfight._ Only for Noctis to die by _impalement._ To then go to the afterlife and hit Ardyn with a bunch of swords _super hard._ And then it turns out Noctis did have his emotional breakthrough and admit how much his guys mean to him.... but it took him his fiancée being long dead and his own death being around the corner for him to come to terms with his journey. It was left to after the credits when the game was already over and not shown when it was actually appropriate in the chronology.
Lunafreya centering her entire life around Noctis since age 4 was lol, Iris's character being defined by "crushes on Noct" was lol, Aranea being there to deliver exposition on the Empire and having an offscreen character arc was lol, Cindy just being eye candy for Prompto to Nice-Guy-ishly put on a pedestal and Gladio to comment on was lol, Gentiana only showing up to talk to Noctis about how much Luna is slavishly and uncomplainingly bearing his burdens for him (but doing nothing to help Luna in Chapter 9 because Luna's only value is dying for Noctis at that point) is lol. Her appearing in Chapter 10 or 11 to give him the Trident and expound that _she_ is the one who groomed Luna to center her life around Noctis since age 4 is even more lol. Shiva proceeding to define herself by her love of Ifrit and making him the reason she "loves humanity" because he did it first and inspired her, instead of her having an intrinsic motivation to love humans was lmao, even.
As someone who's still got FFXV somewhere in the backlog, this was very interesting. thanks
YUPPP
@@questioningespecialy9107 Don't let all that I said stop you from playing the game; if "just vibing with the boys" is your thing, go for it and ignore the rest of the plot and like, half the banter.
It's just weird to me how the game presents itself as a fun time with the boys yet not even the worldbuilding is safe from Some Writer's Weird Hangup over Gender Politics:
Take for instance, Lestallum, the one town on the map where "women do the work and the men stay at home! ♥️" and it's touted as super progressive and feminist, but in execution it's a cautionary tale on The Dangers of Women's Lib: you hear the male NPCs complaining about how they feel less manly because their wife earns more money than them, or another NPC discourages his son's aspirations to work at the nearby power plant because "that's women's work". There actually are plenty of men who own shops in Lestallum and Noct can interact with all these merchants, where the interactions are "equal" between Noct and the shopkeep (Noct wants item, has money, Merchant wants money, has item. They trade. Transaction over.) but the interaction with Holly (the only *actual* female NPC that isn't Iris) is framed as unequal-the boys of the party are the ONLY ones that can do the work she wants done, and she needs them, but the bros don't need her. Daemons overrun her power plant one time and all the "working women" of the city are hiding away at home and none of them are combat ready. This is also somehow apparently a job that Prompto, the most squishy member of the bros, can handle and isn't himself hiding away from.
Holly's quests involve moments where the bros more or less make fun of her PTSD and how they don't believe it's real (she claims her back hurts at the mere mention of daemons; what's happening is that Holly is Cindy's friend through Cindy's parents who died being mauled by demons when Cindy was just 5-6, and their deaths caused Holly to devote herself entirely to her work and neglect self-care, leading to a back injury. And in general, PTSD triggers can be anything and can manifest physically, making the banter in this section of the game serious Yikes.)
Also, the Oracles. At least four of them are meet an untimely demise for the sake of a king or protecting a close male and providing that man's motivation. Despite their importance to the lore as being the only ones capable of holding the "world-destroying darkness" at bay, the story moves on without them, they're replaced as unceremoniously as old batteries on a remote, and one of them is even replaced by a male king taking her role just fine-not even a man in the Oracle's own bloodline, but a king in Noct's bloodline who just decided to take on her role until a legitimate successor came of age. Meanwhile the one notable female king within Noct's line has a specific backstory of "the people of her kingdom didn't like that she was king, because she's a woman and that's not a woman's job". So uhhhhhhhhhh... yeah. The game's one of THOSE types when you look under the hood.
@@ultimamage3
_spots another RUclips comment mini essay_
🙌🏿
Also, yeah~ I'mma skip that game entirely and just enjoy video essays instead. Don't need that kinda bs in my life. thanks
@@questioningespecialy9107 At the risk of kicking a dead horse here, it bears (heheh) mentioning how funny it is this video brings up the game's treatment of Elwin as "one of the good ones" as suspect, given how _insidiously awful_ the same thing is in XV, it's just that little attention is drawn to it in the game. No one says anything about how King Regis treated his people, and anyone with criticism against Regis or Noctis is a villain that has to be killed and defiled for their transgression.
XVI doesn't exactly frame the system of bearers as ideal, Clive and Elwin exist in that system and are complicit by acting within it, and not everything bad can be pinned on Anabella. XV meanwhile treats King Regis as a good king and a good father who did nothing wrong, except Regis exploited downtrodden refugees from conquered lands for his personal army. Said soldiers are only recruited when they have nothing more to lose, get treated as second-class, live in substandard housing akin to the Midgar slums from FF7. Regis otherwise employed a "strict refugee policy" that didn't let outsiders in, and never thought of exporting the anti-daemon technology the city uses to protect the rest of the kingdom outside of it, resulting in lives lost to completely preventable deaths (see: Cindy's parents), all before the setup of the game where he intentionally lets Insomnia be invaded just to save Noctis, because Noctis's life is literally that valuable. But he didn't bother preparing Noctis for his journey or telling him what his destiny was, he raised him as a "normal boy" to spare him the stress of knowing it, which screwed everyone else over.
There is NO criticism of the system and classism within XV; the classism is its backbone. The Divine Right of Kings is canon to the timeline. The royalty really _is_ blessed with powers that make them better than the common man, passed down to them by the gods. No criticism of the "heroes' side" is allowed no matter what reprehensible things are done by the heroes or how Noctis and his allies endanger the lives of common people.
For XVI, Clive, Jill, and maybe Cid have moments where they question if their journey is the right thing, and it's even mentioned outright that people won't just randomly grovel at their feet just because they're playing hero. No such consideration happens in XV because that story already decided that the only people who criticize the good guys must be the bad guys, and Noctis was predestined to be the hero so everyone must have faith in him specifically.
Kingsglaive the movie is basically "Refugees Bad: The Movie". The climax comes from half the eponymous force betraying the king over his false promises, except for Nyx the protagonist who's "one of the good ones" when he remains on the side of the royalty exploiting him, shows absolute faith in King Regis's decisions, and gives his life to stop the villains of the movie. The "traitors" who betrayed Regis are later treated in the playable MMO "Comrades" as ungrateful sinners who bit the hand that fed them, then revived from the dead to "repent" for their "sins" by showing fealty to Noctis in turn and fighting in service of him, because again, Noctis is destined to be the world's savior by the word of the gods and a magic rock. There is no other way, so they had to fall in line, or else.
Ultimately at the end of the game when Noctis is facing off against Ardyn, Noctis makes no mention of the common people who helped him get to where he is the way Clive acknowledges his "brothers and sisters"-- shit, the start of XV features banter that Noct is _debasing himself_ by helping commoners with errands, he's literally "too good" to be doing sidequests. There's brief visual lip service in the ending where Noctis is surrounded by his close friends and his dad, because by all standards of the game, those three friends, his dad, and ostensibly his fiancée are literally _the only people that matter in Noct's journey,_ certainly not the reporter NPC who spreads lore, the researcher NPC studying the effects of the plague on the natural world and figures out its source, the various cook NPCs who provide buffs for the party, or the jeweler NPC who's trying to create protective items to help people without magical bloodline bullshit.
( Even then Noct's friends are superfluous, because the power he actually uses to vanquish Ardyn and the Starscourge comes from not from his friends having faith in him or the bonds he forged, but from a prophecy, his royal bloodline, his girlfriend's bloodline, the gods of the setting, and a magic rock. )
Great video. love your usual grab bag approach, but I also really I enjoyed this more focused review. By all means, talk more about square games and gender
I haven't played FF16 yet but I heard rumbling about how some of it's topics weren't handled as well as they could have. I really appreciate your perspective and you did a great job helping me understand just why that might be. Glad despite it all you were able to find a great game here that I might one day give a try.
you had me at using ''fragments of memories'' as a background track
i've never felt more compelled to do the E3 slow walk than when i played this game
You are one of my fav content creators on this entire site, and this may be one of my fav videos of yours. You getting more personal in the middle was super fascinating to hear about (and also taught me that maybe if I'd played a few final fantasy games as a kid/teen I'd have found out queer parts of myself much earlier than I did). Would definetly want to hear more about it, and loved your perspective on this game's story!
Love all the little pikachus you shoehorned into the video.
This is definitely one of the best videos I've seen on XVI. You give so much love to the smaller things I don't see too many other people talking about (like walking through the forest with Histoire playing) but you also point out some of the weirder things it has. That being said, to me, the game does feel very masculine, but in a healthy way. Clive's relationships and how he expresses his love for them is was tells me this. He is constantly telling everyone close to him how he holds them dear, like when Gav gets insecure while drinking, and Clive reassures him, then later embraces him before the end of the game (almost brought me to tears). I just wish the female characters (mainly Jill) got more to do, and didn't feel just there to be there for Clive, because I really enjoyed her presence and character design. The game generally could really have benefited the type of banter that was in games like FF Remake. Anyways, sorry for the ramble, great video!
I love this video (and all of your videos, really). You expressed very clearly what I like about this series, what I like about this game (I think is fantastic) but especially what I didn't like about the potrayal of women and sexual assault. I can't do this any better.
This discutions are important in every piece of media, even and especially with things we like. Many people gets mad about this and I don't get it. Conversation is important and is part of the maturity of video games as an art form.
Also, you are really funny.
😂
sick video good points etc but as a mere ff dabbler its crazy to me that this is the first one with sex in it
Canonical sex. 7 late game has a very similar fade to black that implies Tifa and Cloud do it. Later dev discussions in Ultimanias discussed it as such.
They 100% should swap XIV WoL out for Yoshi P's Lala. 3ft tall friendos can kill gods too dammit!
As much as I enjoyed FFXVI I really hope XVII genderly swings in the opposite direction and we get another Charlie's Angels X-2 style game. Jill losing all non-Clive related agency after killing the patriarchy was genuinely upsetting. I really wanted to see her grow as a character, making friends with Tharja, Mid, and Charon but the female cast hardly share a word :(
awesome video thor :) I'd love to hear you talk about your personal story sometime if you'd like to, seems like a really interesting and unique topic that isn't very talked about !!!
Thanks for showing us your unique perspective on games! I was never interested in this one because it was an action game, but I can't deny that the look of early promotional material turned me right off even then. It looked like it was aping all the stuff I don't like about shows like GoT. I don't like stuff that thinks it needs cursing, gore and sex (in whatever form) to be 'mature'--that's such a surface-level way to look at it. I'm glad you had fun with it, despite the flaws.
Edit: Oh yeah, I laughed when you went 'lesbians' and you showed footage of Fang and Vanille! Ha! It's so true.
I grew up looking up to manly man RPG heroes and parties even as a young girl, but I have to say Thor's point about the female characters in 16 being more like accessories/additions hit home with me as an adult woman. It gave me some weird vibes like I didn't feel welcome in the game, and so for that and other reasons I didn't feel compelled to finish the game. Went right back to my second playthroughs of Dragon's Dogma and Wild Arms, haha. I get why people like 16 though, it's well made, but just a little too shaped by the marketing department even by today's standards for my taste. Something feels missing (soul? haha jk...kind of).
You’re welcome wherever you decide you are. They don’t have that power over you, so don’t give it to them.
@@minimalchill that would be a nice platitude if it were true. there are absolutely plenty of spaces that various forms of non-men are not allowed in because of men with power. there are spaces that anyone non-white isn't allowed in because of white people with power. it's exhausting when you're continually the only one like you in the room, especially when you have to explain all of these aspects of your experience that other people have no idea about.
@@minimalchillthat's sweet, but no. People absolutely have power to make others feel unwelcome, especially when it comes to things like minorities in nerd/gamer spaces.
I think a big BIG thing that added to creating this feeling is making the game a single character focused game/story. I compare ff16 a lot to BD1/BS and XC3 for the obvious reasons…
@@robinw.8083that's when you don't give a fuck and do what you want because nobody controls you.
i rarely comment but i just wanted to say i love yr work. keep it up
Nice video Thor i enjoyed hearing your perspective on the game. Your video makes me feel stronger in my opinion that later side quest should have been in the main story. Jill for example in hers says why she likes clive, how Annabelle tried to do her dirty, and that she actually wants to travel the world. Vivans is about a book that exposes how bearers were first made slaves, which is apparently her inspiration for her being a scholar, and there's 3 quest where the premise is clive and crew helping bearers settle their own town and 1 where you go back and help them support themselves. All these were things i enjoyed but i kept thinking this shouldn't be a side quest this should be a part in the main story. They even tell how side characters met Cid, which surprised me since most are basically they were in trouble until Cid shows up and says hey join my team.
Every character meet Cid when they needed help Clive included lol
Just what I was looking for😊 a nice dose of your work! Dankjewel ❤
In another video I saw Lost Odyssey directly followed by Symphonia. Now your clip for Crystal Bearers is the beach game. I finally understand what I am thou, thou art I means.
I have this theory that Square didn't finish Shiva's batle mechanics/they were hard to implement for some reasons - and wrote the scenes aroud that. So Shiva is the only Eikon that's cutscenes only. Her boss battle is well.... kicking the half-dead dog around (not denying the sadness aspect of it). Just I can see easilly places where plot were just screaming for Jill/Shiva to do more
The editing here is so GOAT, shout out
out of curiosity what is the game that was briefly shown with the black and white cat with the purple tuxedo
the seven colors legend of psy s city
the funny thing about jill is that the game goes out of its way to say that shes still a virgin just like clive
Oh, so that’s why she survived the events of the game!
Man I could have sworn they did it on the beach
@@roadsidepeekneek7259 the trophy confirms it.
@@roadsidepeekneek7259 nah they just held hands all night
I feel so stoopid! When I first beat the game, I slightly sad about this. I was very much crying for the rest of the day and part of it was because of this. And then I saw someone on Reddit say that Jill was probably pregnant and that’s why Clive died. I dead ass, did not even consider that they had sex, LIKE AT ALL. Hahahah
FFT I don't think is fully in the "men doing things" category. Like most of the main active political cast is dudes but Agrias and Alma are extremely important, Agrias being your strongest character for a while. Besides that Miluda's whole thing over two battles conveys a ton of character. It is annoying that classes have gender based stat changes but that feels like a weird Ogre battle leftover more than FF dna.
Plus the art is pretty androgynous oftentimes.
The return of Keyblade Pikachu is something I never expected but really appreciate
I don't know. When Eminem started rapping over that Final Fantasy XV trailer I trusted it immediately.
Benedikta, Jill, and Annabelle would all be fine on their own if they weren't like. The MAIN girls. But all of them serve to either drive another dude's character developments or use a very tropified villainized version of womanhood and the fact that all three of them exist as the main girls just doesn't mix well. Benedikta would be fine if Jill wasn't sidelined and had her arc finished halfway through the game, Jill would be fine if Benedikta was a more compelling villain with a longer presence in game, and Annabelle would be fine if Jill and Benedikta had better presence overall. And of them all, I think Annabelle is like. The least offensive? Which is its own fucked little irony. I guess you could argue that Jote and Mid are more important than Benedikta but Jote is just diet Jill in terms of her place in the plot and Mid doesn't have nearly enough presence to make up for the rest, although she is fantastic
That's fine tbh
The idea it's offensive at all is laughable.
I'm just starting the video, but I thought 16 did a brilliant job of showing what it's like to be a desired himbo that's committed to the mission.
It may or may not hit very close to home for me.
I agree with most of the video but when you got to the point of "The fact that I can wildly misread the game's themes means that something is wrong with the writers themselves" I found it to honestly be insane; it sounds like something you'd hear on Twitter. I also don't think destroying the crystals was "Let's make all the slaves normal" I think it's exactly what it's presented as, freeing slaves. The game still has an in-universe story to tell and not every analogy is gonna be 1:1 with our real world history and issues. Besides that though, everything you said about the treatment of female characters and conceits of setting felt spot on.
admittedly the thing about the possible reading was a first draft thing I just spammed into my notes while playing that made it in cuz I made this video back to back with the last one n by the time I got to that point in the script I was a lil done with it all and indeed of a break so I didn't look at my own notes as critically as I normally would. the moment I heard it in editing I was like yea nah not how I would've liked to have phrased that but shit is what it is I guess. I don't think that makes me insane just lazy. I do legit just feel v unsure about that as a plot direction still tho. I know the characters in the game do too it's defo not treated as a catch all bandaid on the situation. like this isnt goint to magically fix their society. but I dunno it just felt a lil under cooked to me. also while I am fully aware that the circumstances in the game don't fully mirror real life, I'm also not the one who made a side quest npc say the term "bearer lover". the moment that dropped I couldn't help but scan along with how it does or doesn't align with real life as a commentary or whatever. and I feel a lil conflicted about that. tho ultimately not where my main beefs were at with the story, obviously, so I'm sure I coulda missed things there.
but imo, i do think it's more complex then merely freeing the slaves. cuz like, well just in gerenal, imo, if there's a problem in a society, and at the root of that problem sits something ppl are born with, then I don't think the solution to that problem should Ever be to make that thing go away. cuz the problem then is the society. they freed the slaves by making the magic users no longer magic users. even standing alone as in game universe shit, I think that sucks.
The masculinity in the West vs the East are really different. FF men are still consider extremely manly for Asians, even if they are seen as androgenous by Western standard.
I love when people just make shit up about my culture. No, they’re twinky boys here too. They are specifically designed to look androgynous.
Do you think they put cloud in a dress because he’s super masculine?
I think some of the readings you take from certain plot points are maybe unnecessarily bad faith, but I think I can understand that perspective given how gross some of the plot points are, it's a game that kind of accidentally makes you read things in a certain way that I think weren't necessarily intentional. Like with the mothercrystals, I think that was more of a commentary on how we can't really build class consciousness today without first tackling the climate because it's kind of impossible to build true equality when the world you live in is dead. I also think the bearers wielding magic was analogous to certain technologies that we might use for manual labour today, and how they're dehumanised into being basically water fountains or heaters or things of that nature. I think the writing outside of the treatment of women (which sucks) is kinda surprisingly leftist, though that's not that surprising given some of the topics FF14 covers. It fucking sucks how even just studying gender is this big hot button issue today though, because I think if the writers at Square's studios could really benefit from it and produce better games.
right? on one hand the game gets so progressive, angrily revolutionary, pretty much anarcho-communist... and on the other hand you have the women being accessories garbage.
the mother crystals arent about the enviroment its about the devs hating classic final fantasy
@@Zoeila get some media literacy
@@Zoeila ah yes, the devs with their project lead who also heads up 14 in which every update contains a love letter to another game in the series. those devs right?
i have to say, Mobius's WoL is peak buff pretty dude design from Final Fantasy
I genuinely love Clive as a protag. Even though I dislike the second half of the game. FF16 Is extremely quirky and I would love to see more of this world
What'd you not like about the second half?
I need some DLC
About Benedikta, I thought it was implied sa right before she gets her powers back not actual sa?
Not saying that makes it better, was just surprised by your interpretation
its both sa. putting ur intent like that into someones head is already a gross traumatic violation. imo emotionally, psychologically, and legally, that should be considered sa already.
Fair, I can agree with that
Thanks for the great video man, have a nice one
This truly is a Final Fantasy
...XVI ...moment?
Great stuff as always THH.
dude this chaos meme....it got me good this time thor. love you brother, thank you for your vids!
>starts the video with a strawman
>the rest is predictable
jeez these people really are a mob mentality
Honestly I feel like you might be like under selling Benedikta as a character, like I know FatBrett actually has a very solid video discussing Benedikta as a character and she actually has a fair amount of depth and if you actually look at the scene with her and Barnabas she's actually very much trying to get him to connect with her throughout that scene and he just brushes her off and it's clear that she's desperate for validation from someone but she has a very particular view of loyalty that stopped her from just going along with Cid who would have been more then happy to give it and it's easy to just kind of overlook a lot of these details. Though you did acknowledge she's not a cardboard cutout and I think you're totally justified us having issues with how the threat of SA is used to kind of underline how vulnerable she is without her powers feels kinda shitty.
It makes her more nuanced, definitely, but it still exposes the same issue Thor brings up: Benedikta's validation is based on her sexual relationship with a man, which is a problem in a game where the female characters whose roles are not based on their worth to men are a definitive minority and the two most prominent female characters, Jill and Annabella, are very much defined by their relationships with men. If Benedikta was more or less alone in that fashion then it would be an interesting part of her character rather than par for the course.
@@rearedlogarithm Yeah but like... _why_ is that a problem? It's really not one. There are plenty of stories with predominantly female casts where the most prominent male characters are defined by their relationships to women, but I can't imagine you whining about that. You probably never even thought about it.
@@rearedlogarithmplenty of woman in real life get their validation from their sexual relationships with men though lol. Its a very real thing.
@Kageryushin if you dont think its a problem you are mysiogynist
@@Zoeila if you think it's a definitive problem you're a misandrist.
see how that works?
2:27 yooo what's that movie. it unlocked a core memory. i saw this joint a bunch of times on TV as a kid. I NEED THE NAME PLEASE.
Twinsitters maybe? It's the only movie I've seen by those beautiful doofuses
Had to wait til now to watch this since i beat the game only a day or two ago. But as always your videos are awesome to watch and it was interesting hearing your thoughts on things, WIth the game of thrones vibes, i was already expecting a ton of tropes that would be used frequently.
I think the only thing i did not agree with you with is how you felt about Clive removing magic , cause with all the negatives that come with it (specifically the curse and crystallization from over use ) it seems like it was best to remove it.
The Quest! Love that game. As far as mobile blobbers would definitely call it "cozy". Great discussion as always.
I'm so bummed out i havent beaten the game yet, I want to watch this so bad!
500% normalize crop tops for boys
Wait where do you get that Cid slept with Martha or Eloise?
Thor this may for real be one of your best videos! always love your perspective on games but here it feels like you really honed in on FFXVI thematically, like, it’s a fun but messy ass game and I love seeing people talk about it! thanks for sharing your takes (and your identity) with us! ❤
A lot of weebs and media illiterate people tend to forget that people write stories, that people made decisions on what happens in a story and what it all means. On the SA aspect, a big problem is that the writers use SA as a literary punishment for characters, just like death is punishment for promiscuity. They take it as ‘thats just how it be’ instead of ‘i’m not sure the writer’s head is in the right pace’ or ‘the writers beliefs are pouring through the work’ :U
Yeah, forget the "everything is political" angle, some people seem fundamentally unable to understand the concept that writers make decisions when they write stories, and that baffles me. Y'know, the people who only discuss stories by in-universe terms.
Don't personally think SA was used as punishment. Seems more like something to make benadikta more sympathetic and agree with her anger.
Reason for the flash back of her being saved by CID and her going full transformation.
@@happymate8943 i didnt say SA was used on benedikta as punishment since it was a flashback. Also that flashback was a cheap and lousy attempt by the writers to gaining sympathy, as well as her ‘relationship’ to cid. It’s meaningless. It could have been cut out of the game and nothing would have changed in terms on the storytelling, and it’s presence cheapens itself and cheapens benedikta as a character. The writers really did her dirty.
@@abaque24
Knowing how quick it was, it was likely a good indicator that she was about to kick the bucket. So far the flash backs for the summons seem to be used to make them transform.
Her character seems to be insanely loyal to barnabas out of blind "love". She freaked out when her baked powers were taken screaming about how the king will throw her away.
@@happymate8943 see? This is what i mean about the failure to realize that people write this things and that they have intentions/reasons. But this is a fun topic so we can explore it. Benedikta is ‘meant’ to be villain and a tragic figure in the story: as an antagonist to clive/cid, as a manipulator and a weapon for barnabas, and as a self-centered person. But this is in complete odds of her role in the story/gameplay. Benedikta serves 2 purposes for gameplay/story mechanics: to show that clive that can steal a dominants powers, & to show what happens to dominants that lose their powers to clive. She was concieved by the writers to die. The fact she was the first dominant boss is the foreshadowing she was gonna die. And this is where problems come in. Since she will die and she ‘has’ to die early in the game to fulfill her gameplay purpose, there is no space to explore her character beyond the few scenes she appears and the few aspects mentioned. Buuut the writer wanted to have their cake and eat it too, so she is also an example of how ‘dark’ this world is. She manipulates a dominant into fight for her ‘Owner’ barnabas as she lnows and understand that barnabas only sees value in her because she is ‘useful’ as a dominant. She doesnt love barnabas like you say, she is just desperate. But, like who cares? And i mean that from the pov of the writers and the audience. Up to the point she fights clive she is very much a ‘bad person’. Bringin up her past with cid is not meaningful because, again, she has to die in the next few hours so we cant explore that. Which brings us to her ‘losing’ her powers. At this point is when the writers finally want us to feel for her, but the writers didnt put effort into making you care about her beyond the superficial. So now she’s going to die. This is when the flashback comes in. Your reading it as foreshadowing of her death is a mis-read, its just a last ditch attemp to make benedikta into a sympathetic character, and they do it by cheaply writing her into a SA victim/survivor, and its cheap because thats all it is: a last minute tragic backstory. And to add insult to injury they attempt to make her tragedy be that she did not follow the one person who valued her for just being… which comes off as just aggrandizing cid rather than humanizing benedikta. Buuut times up- clive needs to resolve the lose eneds of his new power up by killing benedikta. After all what are they gonna do, leave her alive? She has to die. She has to. Thats all she was meant to do.- the writers decided to do all of that and did do all of that. The intention of the narrative is not open to interpretation when almos every aspect of the game is in service of that narrative. And so, who cares that benedikta died? Cid does. Clives doesnt. Jill not here either. Whether the player cared or not is more about the players own input than the creators output.
"because an interpretation can be placed on this that would be really terrible, even if it was unintended, that means the writers were out of their depth"
but this can be done with pretty much anything and everything
12:16 someone please tell me where I can listen to the full version of this masterpiece.
Just search Soken LAHEE,it gave you full version
I thought LotR was a quintessential low fantasty. Magic is usually what defines fantasy. So Lord of the Rings which has like 5 semi-strong wizards is pretty tame in comparison to magical airships, continent-level magic, inter-plane politics, etc. I think in terms of Tabletop, Lord of the rings is considered a lvl1-4 campaign
I enjoy how you put words together.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Would love to hear more of your story in a video
It really brightened my day to your take about this as someone who has always also liked that particular thing about men in FF for pretty much the same reason 💛💜
I feel like you took half of the video to actually talk about the topic that the entire video was on.
I too am glad they acknowledged the Gex games. I may not have played the first game, but I most surely played the last two on PlayStation and Nintendo 64. I may have to pick this up and get more of my nostalgia tickled!
Interesting look at FFXVI, thanks for sharing. A welcome breath of fresh air from people who go all in and say "IT'S PERFECT NO FLAWS" or "THE END OF FINAL FANTASY AS WE'VE KNOWN IT."
I think you may benefit from not classifying this as an essay-type video, and maybe as something more "personal" or "casual," because regarding some of the character critiques of the game being too much of a "men doing stuff" story and the females taking more stereotypical roles, I found you returned to simply saying "I don't like x" a lot. Which is fine because this is just own video and own opinions, and I enjoyed the video just on its own merits. But just based on the presentation I was expecting something a bit more... well, essay-like exploring these things.
I hope you don't think this is too harsh, it's just one thing I thought I'd bring up. Love your videos overall, keep it up :)
This was a good video. While I'm not a Final Fantasy fan, I really dig your analysis of FFXVI.
28:10 i think this comes from japanese developers trying to do "western fantasy storytelling". Like, "what do these american people do to make their stories dark? Oh yeah there is a lot of women being treated like shit i guess"
Exactly, that's why in 16 they did the same thing as "western fantasy storytelling" (they really have so many women like shit, they're misogynistic, there's no such thing as people with different skin color, etc.)
@@luizkorynga It's so sad that they didn't take a note from the Souls series or Elden Ring. Their worlds are very rooted in western fantasy but they did away with a lot of this stuff
@@caveirainvocada9438 I don't think Soulsborne wouldn't help much with the narrative (but with the world for sure), for them to be inspired by Game of Throne and other "SERIOUS Medieval Fantasies" was a real shot in the foot
very fun that they got Ralph "The Green Knight" Ineson to do a voice.
I thought Benedicta would have benefited from her using sex to control or establish some form control over people... Using it as way to coerce Hugo into making a move or forcing herself on one of her soldiers who defied an order. Atleast it would have made the sexual assault and her losing her mind afterwards more rooted in her character. She's not only lost her power but her control mechanism has been turned on her.
To be fair, she does use her sexuality to push Hugo into doing something at the meeting between Waoled and Dhalmakia at the beginning of the game, he intervenes and announces his intention to crush the Crusaders after she mentions that he's yet to do something in this battle.
I can't know what the intention was. And while I agree that the female characters were either underdeveloped or sidelined, I don't know if the ugliness and misogyny was a reflection of the writer, or a conscious portrayal of an ugly and misogynistic world; events, tropes and all.
But either way, it's unfortunate it's not addressed in the game. It's taken as the norm, and it's never or barely ever challenged. There's so much that could be said about imperialism, monarchy, authoritarianism, misogyny and nepotism. And save for a couple of side quests, not much is discussed on how the land should be governed or how the norms should be challenged. "It'll be hard to fix this", is the one answer we usually get.
Which is sorta weird, since there are scenarios in FFXIV that are so on the nose in their intent of message, I couldn't believe what I saw. Straight up communist revolution against a tyrannical capitalist zealot, who lives in a raised town adorned with gold, throwing all their waste to the poor people below, who are barely scraping by in a shanty town built in the shadows cast by the *literal* upper class.
And as I understand it, it's the same writer?
Don't get me wrong though, there were plenty of moments that hit hard in FFXVI too. That whole Mythos - Logos-theme was really fresh for one. But it could've been so much more. I hope they revisit Valisthea in a future installment, because it holds so much untapped potential.
Minor addendum: I loved the game. One of my most cherished gaming experiences this year.
Oh no. How dare Japanese devs not share your cringe California leftist obsessions. How terrible 😂
People are sick and tired of these boring Marxist messages. They're tropes worse than traditional tropes
hey, uhhh... I've been a fan for a while and, ngl, as a queer fan, it kinda warms my heart that you're a queer as well, I may not be intersexual as well, but it does make me happy to know about more LGBTQIA+ making cool stuff
No one cares
@@jambyr2579shut it, nerd
@@jambyr2579 You clearly do if you felt the need to reply.
cute and valid comment
Don't listen to the one hater, I hear and support ya! Saludos from México.
Good shit, dude. 💙
I mean, what was he gonna do? Fight Jill to the death for her power? Which would have been dope.
I can't wait for a FF that shows the hero and love interest on opposite sides...
Ff versus was the closest we got to it...
I'm tired of the whole childhood friends thing to show they have a "connection". I want see them meet in person and show the development of love instead lol
1:30 - If you turn up the ATB speed, it will be faster. Don't think I've played 4-9 at default speed since they came out. Give it a go, gotta go fast.
fantastic vid
i'm a woman but i also identify as nonbinary. i really enjoyed 16. i do get your gripes about the female characters but in my perspective, the game itself isn't just a lesson on free will, but a lesson that the world depending on who we are & how indoctrinated we are of society's weird standards can be a scary place and put us in unique situations. some good, some bad.
it was like seeing a glimpse of my own reality, a hard truth because i am also a woman, i also escaped a cult i was raised in that destroyed my sense of self worth. even in modern day we can see these things take place.
the SA scene with Benedikta at first i thought was unnecessary, but then i realized that unfortunately it reveals a truth of our society: that powerful, but vulnerable women just like Benedikta who have potential to start change are manipulated and tossed aside everyday, thus losing their own path and finding pain in the end. this is a common thing that has happened to the women in my family, sometimes i imagine who they would be if they didn't fall victim to some abusive men they eventually married.
even though Cid had many women acquaintances, his efforts were moved by more positive motivations thus having so many people- men and women, deciding to follow and align with him. also i just really adored his character his voice had me swooning.
i did want to see more of Jill though, she was such a cutie and i liked the little arc she had, her life was also very hard and she was forced to do many atrocities as much as Clive. those two are also just so cute together.
and I really love Clive and Joshua, their dynamic has shown a fresh perspective for FF in my opinion.
i did not expect all these characters to be so well written. it was a treat!
also thank you for sharing your experience of being intersex, hearing voices from that perspective is important. i could also emphasize with you in a way because i do not feel like a woman most days and do have some masculine traits that stick out at times.
It's was very refreshing to read your comment. Thank you for your insight.
It brings us more together when we talk like we're human beings and find our likenesses instead of our differences.
100% agree on your take on Benedikta's character. I really was confused when I finished the game and people were saying what they were saying about her. Feels like a critical misinterpretation of the writer's intentions based on preexisting opinions.
@@dirtyman19832003 thanks so much, i'm glad i could show another perspective!
@@samuelcampbell1730 thank you! i do understand where folks come from, and male writers do have a hard time expressing the female perspective sometimes but i think we should look at ourselves and our world too because media is usually a reflection of our world and biases at the end of the day.
@@meowy2kYeah, that scene read far more to me as "the world sucks for women" then any negative towards the women themselves.
10:50 FFXVI is a successor to FFXIII in different ways. The ATL succeeds the Datalog, Ultima's whole shtick and his plans for Clive (and the ruins where he loredumps at Clive) is reminiscent of Bhunivelze wanting to make Lightning his new Etro for the new world he wants to rule over, but he doesn't understand the nuances of the human heart and their will terrifies him (the ruins resemble The Void Beyond, where Yeul tells Serah about Mwynn and Bhunivelze). Things like that. Clive goes on a quest spanning years for the sake of Joshua (and expands into a more worldly goal) like Lightning goes on her quest initially just to save Serah (and then expands into saving Cocoon, saving all of humanity, and saving humanity's new existence).
I thougt the atl was evaluation of ff9s ate but your take has made me think more about it
Yeah the throughline of modern FF from 13 > 15 > 7R > 16 in many ways is pretty clear. Combat and story.
@@cursedaudio984 It's named after Active Time Event, but a main thing about ATEs is seeing what the party is doing elsewhere while Zidane (or the active character) is doing Main Character things. The ATEs as they are in 9 aren't needed here because the game makes plenty of segues into what other characters are up to while Clive isn't there.
So how long will you keep avoiding the number 11 and 14?
11 i will defo play some day. 14 prolly never. just not my thing im afraid.
i didnt know there was some devilman references in this game, NICE 👌
I put off watching this vid for a while but luckily it is not what I feared it might be, guess goes to show that you cant ever trust thumbnails . Loved to hear your view on the game because it was very different from my own. Watching this funny lil vid may not have changed my own opinion and I do not agree on several points but that is okay.
I'd be interested in hearing about your story. I don't think there is enough Intersex representation, or even awareness, out there.
Also, supremely solid video, as usual. Your style is so chill and unique.
100%
fully agree with this.
I want to know too because in all his face appearances, voice, body language, height and whatnot he looked 100% male. Ngl it surprised me
@@kuronoroux8864 Everyone has different levels of testosterone, progesterone, and estrogen. Even cis women can grow beards. I think more intesex awareness could help (but I doubt it) with the whole "there are only two genders: male and female" argument. 1 in around 2000-4500 are born intersex.
@@ChickpeaTwo I'm aware. But now a thing makes itself clear. It's the username HighHeels. I recall in an old video (or was it in a QnA in those pages like Ask Cat was it? Said it was an inside joke for him. I do know it's because it's the similar to Thor's surname, but in retrospective it's also... Very fitting with this new info. I'm intrigued
Edit: CuriousCat was the place!