How To Quote For A Repair Job Without Spending Too Much Time Diagnosing The Fault
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- A Customer brought in a Yamaha Pro 1 Programmable mixer with vatious faults and asked me to quote for the repair. How can we do this without wasting too much time in case the customer decides not to proceeed with the repair?
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Thank you
Richard
My brother had the same mixer and a similar fault as that one, it was one of the digital filters and one dac that were defective hope this information will help you !!
Interesting facts when trying to repair audio mixers: most modern stereo inputs in stereo channels also work in mono mode when an input is plugged in the left channel. It gives a mono signal on both. This is not the same when plugging in the right channel. Second, all mixers have an AFL function (after fade listen) and a PFL function (pre fade listen) for headphone monitoring
Heya, nice that you find the schematic that makes it easier. wouw never seen sliders like that would like to see how that work. lol still have so much to learn
Very instructive in terms of pricing up a job - thanks Richard !
Stuff like this can give me the willies, I would defo check availability on ADCs and DACs stuff like that, and there's always that big old can of worms that may open !! hope we get a repair vid.....cheers.
this is a motorized audio mixer, fader position can be stored and recalled for different presets/scene (ie- different soundchecks, bands), groundbreaking back then.... In the headphones you get signal independent from faders because you engage the PFL selectior which stands for Pre Fade Listen.
Richard you don’t see many videos how something is priced out in fact yours is the only one I’ve seen. Do you have an initial diagnostic fee say to bring it in to just look at it and determine what could be wrong? Anyway thanks for sharing. 👍
Decimation filter = sample reduction filter. It takes out frequencies next to each other to reduce file size. Not something you’d want in most studios, but for a home studio with limited storage…
Maybe in a future video, explain how to come up with the rates to make repairs based on monthly costs of operation divided number of hours available to work. Also, the difference between straight time and flat rate( this usually just applies to automotive/truck/fleet repair but I’ve seen electronics repair shops in California start differentiate between the two).
Something to consider when quoting prices for repairs, especially on specialty/ vintage items, is the cost to replace the entire unit. You can quote a fair price but if the customer agrees to the amount then finds that the board can be replaced for less money than it costs to repair, the customer could just walk away and leave the repair shop high and dry. Eventually the shop could recoup their costs but if this is a new repair shop just getting into the game, a few jobs like this could potentially ruin the new venture. It’s sad to say but don’t trust anyone and always CYA.
Great video as always, thanks!!
Ha, ha, ha....😅😂😂😂 I've loughed so hard that I literally fell of my cheer. I mean it. Literally. 😂😂😂 I never in a milion years woudn't have expected the pots to sudently move on their own. That is a real poltergeist encounter some might think . Ha, ha. 😅 I could see your face expression as being well puzzled as well. I was funny beyond belief. nice and very entertaining intro. Thank you.
Agreed - It was like the Spanish Inquisition! I mean. No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition...
How to quote..If its difficult chargem heaps, if its moderately difficult chargem heaps and if its easy chargem heaps to make up for all the moderate and hard ones you misquoted on...Any Questions?
No questions at all that saved me 30 mins watching the video 😂
I felt the same the first time I used a motorised desk lol.
20+ years later, I can do the same off my iPhone/iPad, but do miss desks
Good plan!
I hope if you get the go ahead you can make a video of the repair.as there is a lot of fault finding .so far very interesting
Tim Hunkin would love this mixer! 😊
I Have the Yamaha 01v about to do a show on it that would help you understand Digital mixers
Hi Richard, the Ribbon cable you are looking is the MCU cable at 25:50 is not the correct cable coming from the audio board
Are you sure about that?
Yes i am sure ive watched the that part of the video several time and the ribbon cable from the audio board goes through the board at the top 25:22 and not half way down the panel@@LearnElectronicsRepair
Motorised faders used to be available only on the highest end mega expensive studio equipment, nowadays they are available even on budget gear.
Top button on each channel seems OK. Seems it's acting like a pre-fade-listener (PFL). In live performances it really helps isolate problems.
I have a Roland digital audio work station that predates these Yamaha mixers. Mine also has programmable sliders.
The computer section alone on mine can route the audio in so many different ways that it's possible to adjust a parameter and pan the audio all the way left or right or in between to bounce one or more tracks to another.
The headphone outputs are also programmable on these style mixers to monitor input, output, or other feeds within a mix.
If this is even a fraction as complicated as my Roland your going to need to read through a very thick manual just to figure out if a setting is limiting your audio in software or in hardware from a fault.
Roland motorized sliders and other parts for example can be impossible to source when replacements are needed. Yamaha being newer may not have quite as many specialized and obsolete parts but I wouldn't bet on it.
I remember when those were quite new and a friend had problems with a/d converter chips and yamaha used expensive burr brown chips not sure if he ever fixed it.
Yamaha + Burr Brown = Expensive.
I understand how you came up with the parts list but not your time.How long do you expect it to take to repair?
Well... I think probably it would take maybe an hour or so to figure out what is most likely faulty (based on the explanation of the fault finding process in the video) then another hour or two to change the parts and test it... and then it will be early afternoon and this is Spain so we have to take a Siesta and then decide if we did enough for day or whether maybe we should just go to the beach 😋😉😎
Oh! the choices you have, you live in paradise.@@LearnElectronicsRepair
Hi Richard, I‘d be interested how you handle liability. Not about the work outcome as such, but even a simple repair on a mains cable could pose a risk to the customer. And if something happens for whatever reason, notwithstanding any waivers the customer might have signed, you are the last person who touched it and might get sued for damages or more. At least here in Germany that could be the case and I‘m sure it is similar in the UK. Canaries might be different, but they are still EU (somewhat?).
You make sure you have liability insurance, then any claims are handled by, and paid by, your insurance company.
@@rampak1 Yeah that's the one, public liability insurance
I don‘t think that would handle commercial activities. Probably fine if you repair stuff for free, but not paid for?
@@Chief_Engineer I was assuming you would have commercial public liability insurance just as all businesses (in UK) must have.
🏆
Where do you get you schema
I explained how I found the schematic in the video and put the link on screen...
From the off maybe ask the customer how much would it cost to replace/get a similar item 🤔 Comment above mentioned $200. You’d could gauge that it’s prob uneconomical to customer at say 1/3-1/2 replacement cost 🤔 knowing you’d be spending at least 1/2hr upwards just to remove covers / brief look over to see if anything apparent / get schematics if available. Most of this early diagnosis is unpaid time unless you secure a minimum upfront fee to inspect 🤔 This focuses customer on moving forward with repair. It could lose some custom for sure but both parties aren’t wasting each others time. Similarly it might be an item that could be taken in for small fee/ scrap value - & add it to the rainy day projects to look over/ diagnose decide if it’s worth one’s time to then sell on - break down into components/parts - sell on eBay as spares/repairs.
You do end up with lots of electronic crap though - but it can make someone’s day when you advertise / sell components hard to acquire. I’m nearly at the dnd of getting rid of 20 years of donated / acquired ‘stuff’ for a rainy day - but I know I wouldn’t have enough rainy days to do half of it!
Similarly test equipment - how much does one need - I’ve moved on many items hoarded over the years - made many happy with items going all over the world - as ultimately who deals with all this after the rainy days are over. Family / friends have to deal with all this hoarded ‘stuff’ & more than not ends up in the skip.
Anyway - I’ll carry on with the declutter - enjoy the channel very much 👍
How much test gear do I need ?...All of it !!!!
@@andymouse well you know in about 85% of repairs I only use a multimeter. The other most useful items are a bench PSU (preferable two of them), oscilloscope (but a cheap and nasty one will do for the main part), ESR meter (not useful until you need it and then it is very useful), Component/semiconductor anaylser (these can be very cheap) and a thermal camera which is something I never realised just how useful this is until I had one. Of course this list depends somewhat on the type of repair you are doing, for some fields such as audio or radio repair the requirements may vary, but I thin it is a good rule of thumb.
Yep ! my answer was a bit tongue in cheek, because you well know the thrill of getting a new or old piece of test gear !!Lol ! we can't help it@@LearnElectronicsRepair
@@andymouse Oops my bad
Yeah that's kinda the point of this video, to not spend too much time on the initial diagnosis, but to come up with the most likely cause of the fault, determine if parts are available and at what price, and figure out repair strategy to get an idea of time, involved, then come up with a reasonable quote. of course this may not always work out, and let's face it, everything takes longer than you thought. 😉
It's a Yamaha. That'll be Japanese, not Chinese.
they are called automated sliders
Motorised faders.
Electrically driven linear potentiometers.
@@andymouse Yeh, everybody calls them that, even the manufacturers, just rolls off the tongue so easily!
LOL !@@alunjprice
not economically viable, a gimmick...you could buy a fully functioning one in much better condition on ebay $200. Why would anyone want or need the re-callable settings...we got iphones these days, take a pic. i'm thinking maybe in a studio these were a thing back in the day. I got 2 yamahas in my studio 16 and a 12 mg series from early 2000s all discrete...beautifull sound...forget the digital.
I won't try to answer the question of "why". What I will say is that different people have different needs. Not everyone is in the same situation.
Agreed - but some studios / setups / software are kept as they were from yesteryear - if it does the job / familiarity too - why change it.
Software / updates for new equipment now pushed as subscription services effectively removing ownership. Many probably don’t wish to use or own Apple products / Iphones unlike myself. All horses for courses
0:30 a spoky mixer😱😱😱😱😱
Devil and voodoo mixer 😱💨💨 run.....
Have you heard of voodoo audio?
@@messageobliquespe100 crrr.. tschhh. Wuhoooo . Yes i have 😱💨💨🏃♂️ run 🤣🤣