Great video, I worked in and around water treatment for everything from drink water, wastewater, and ultra pure water for injection. It always amazes me the influence this substance has on our lives and how different characteristics of the same parameters are important for all aspects of our lives. It is,to my mind at least, the single most amazing thing in our everyday lives.
FYI, evaporation only works for chlorine. However most municipal water treatment also uses chloromides, which are bonded and therefore non-volatile. You will absolutely need a carbon filter to remove chloromides, which have a similar negative impact on flavor.
I have also used water test strips sold for aquariums. They are very helpful! I use a Rocket resin filter in my espresso machine's water tank to reduce the hardness. It does make a difference in my coffee's flavor. :) As usual, great info!!!
Thanks Mark for the informative video. The information on sodium was especially interesting regarding the effect on taste (too little-sweet/too much-sour). Thanks again!
Hi Marc, good information, it makes totally sense! If we think that a good espresso or cup of coffee is made with 96-98% of water, that is as important as the coffee, grinder and machine. .... interesting I also had aquariums and used an reverse-osmosis system with adds and testings. Our current water supply in central Switzerland has about 30fh and all other tube staff, so very hard water. I found two mineral waters for a perfect blend. Its work blending them, buying and carrying the bottles, but all in all it gives fantastic coffee, tea water and prevents our Expobar dual boiler. Cost's are more or less the same with our hardness if I calculate the BWT Pats and Table Filter (we need min. two filters in order to break it down form 30-35fh to 6/7 dh). However the BWT Bestmax Premium after 600lt would be a little cheaper, but as far as I am aware it can't filter hormones and drug chemicals. Therefore as long as I get these mineral waters at reasonable price here, I do the work and blend it. Best Espresso regards Kurt
Hi Kurt, Thanks for the comment! Sounds like you found a good solution for getting around some very hard water. Guessing you are in a mountainous region? Extra hard water is common in those areas - same for parts of Western US. A lot depends on the source. My tap water comes mostly from the Great Lakes with TDS usually about 150ppm. I believe activated carbon filtration will remove chemicals beyond chlorine. I run a sock of it in my aquarium sump to remove poisons given off by corals I keep. Also, if you still have the RO system might consider using that water dosed with minerals etc to bring it up to standards for brewing. I'll be doing a video on that soon. When I started the aquarium years ago I used to purchase RO/DI water from the aquarium shop for weekly water changes. Got tired of paying for and carrying 15 gallons of water home all the time. I was spending about $25/mo on water. I picked up a 50 gallon/day RO/DI system with the input/output TDS meter for about $85. Paid for itself in < 4 months!
Hi Marc yes and no I live in Baar / Zug central Switzerland, whole Switzerland has hard water except some cities when its form the Lake supply. We in the canton of Zug have source water and our mountain of Zug is only 800 meters above sea level. not very high but one of the hardest waters in Swtzerland. www.zug-tourismus.ch/en/home When I had the aquarium I also used an RO system the TDS is imprtant and metal contents also. Guess you blend aquarium water, RO/DI water with some additives or some regular tap water. Still its work but for a beautiful result. what is nicer to sit early morning in front of an aquarium with a good espresso and enjoying the fishes.
Thanks Marc! Who knew so many variables could impact coffee quality. I hope my spring water is adequate, will have to get a kit to test. Awesome hobby too! I hope to someday graduate to a saltwater tank.. lots of work and $$ but worth it! Absolutely a beautiful addition to any house 😎
Hi Drew, You are welcome and thanks for the comment! Do test your spring water. No worries about chlorine but depending on source TDS, hardness, alkalinity, pH could be out of whack. Mixed reef aquariums do take some work, $$ and dedication to get up and running. But once established, which takes about 18 months, not much different than fresh water - except much more interesting and colorful!
Third Wave Water is great for espresso and drip. Love that stuff! La Marzocco is doing insane stuff with water studies right now and I think within a few years we'll see custom water blends that accentuate sweetness, bitterness, etc to suit the tastes of the cafe, region, etc.
Hi Chiro75, Water really makes a difference! As mentioned in the video I'll be sharing some water recipes in the coming weeks. It's where you start with distilled or zero TDS RO/DI water and add minerals etc to create water qualities as desired. Everything from SCA standard water to water used in various coffee competitions. It's geek level stuff but can definitely see how certain water profiles might bring be matched with coffees to compliment flavor.
What is your take on Third Wave Water's NaCl content? Why would they create a product that intentionally adds chlorides and deviates from the SCAA standard?
I found this on Home Barista where they came forward and stated that each 1.5 gram packet of Third Wave Water contains the following: 1.1 grams of magnesium sulfate, .3 grams calcium citrate and .1 grams of sodium chloride . What is your take on the Calcium Citrate? Curious if adding this to your recipe would be detrimental or beneficial?
weird. I forgot to subscribe, but I got an update about this video anyways. cool, subscribed, liked, and commented. I like clean water. this is great info :)
i started adding a little distilled water to my tank. I think it reduces the hardness but maybe the water is a little acid now. its only like a cup to 8 cups tap.
Hi HCG, It would reduce hardness but it really depends on where you are starting. For extra hard water adding 1 cup distilled to 8 cups tap is not going to reduce it much - just 12.5%. Would not worry about acid. Distilled water is neutral at pH 7. Technically when exposed to air it does absorb CO2 so over time it may be slightly under pH of 7 but not so much it would make any difference especially when diluted into the tap water. If you think your tap water is way out of standard, stay tuned for a video coming soon we'll show how to add a buffer and mineral source to distilled water to make SCA standard water and more.
thank you for this...I always thought distilled water was acidic because it likes to strip minerals from things because it has none. I will stay tuned.
Hello and thank you for the video! I too have saltwater reef tanks and a water filtration system for them. Mine has Reverse Osmosis with the additional stage for de-ionization. It looked like from the video that yours does, too. My question is, is it ok to use the full RODI filtered water, or should I bypass the de-ionization stage? Thank you, Rob
I have the BWT penguin pitcher - but the water is still very hard out of the pitcher. Is the water safe to use in the ECM Synchronika? My main concern is preventing scaling/damage.
Hi a, If using the pitcher as directed you will not get scale in your machine. If you tested total hardness of water from the pitcher it's measuring the magnesium as part of the hardness. The magnesium will not cause scale in the machines. If you were to measure carbonate hardness it should be lower after treatment in pitcher.
Couple of Questions: First thank you Marc for all of your video's, they are very informative and I love you aquarium. 1. What is your take on Third Wave Water's NaCl content? Why would they create a product that intentionally adds chlorides and deviates from the SCAA standard?and 2.I found this on Home Barista where they came forward and stated that each 1.5 gram packet of Third Wave Water contains the following: 1.1 grams of magnesium sulfate, .3 grams calcium citrate and .1 grams of sodium chloride . What is your take on the Calcium Citrate? Curious if adding this to your recipe would be
Hi Robert, Thanks for your kind comments and questions. One for you: Do you know which Third Wave Water prep those amounts are for? Curious if that is their Classic or Espresso. For sodium chloride, the SCA standard is 10mg/L. Which equals .01g/L. Each of their packets treats a gallon. Converting that to gallons it's .0378g sodium chloride to get SCAA levels in a gallon. If my math is correct, .1g per gallon puts you at about 2.6X the SCA level or about 26mg/L. That sounds big but actually not a huge jump. You need about 50mg/L to cause sour flavors. A few years ago I experimented with adding a tiny pinch of salt directly to ground coffee in a portafilter prior to pulling an espresso. The thought was the salt might benefit flavor. With all the other variables involved in espresso I did not come away with a definitive opinion as to whether it helped enhance flavor or not. There is a feeling/opinion that espresso is better when using brew water with a higher mineral content than what you would use for slower brewing methods like drip etc. My take on the calcium Citrate... It's there as part of the overall mineral content with the mg. You could get rid of the calcium and increase the magnesium or vice versa. In espresso equipment high calcium levels can lead to boiler scaling while magnesium at balanced levels are less likely to form scale.
The recipe was on Home Barista from Taylor of Third Wave Water, it was back on 12-31-2016 where he stated; "For those who are wondering what's in it....Each capsule is a total 1.5g grams. 1.1 grams of magnesium sulfate, .3 grams of calcium citrate and .1 grams of sodium chloride. www.home-barista.com/knockbox/good-references-on-water-treatment-for-coffee-espresso-t41636-10.html Today I wrote; "I am surprised you provided the content of the packet used to treat 1 gallon of water? I am curious as to the sodium chloride. The SCAA starndards allow 0 mg/L of total chlorine, can you expound on this discrepancy? Today at 9:54am he replied: "First why are you surprised I provided the contents of the packet. Second when NaCl dissolves in water your are left with Cl- (the negatively charged chloride ion) which is harmless. If you want to chlorinate your TWW you will need to perform electrolysis to create Cl2 (Chlorine). TWW has 0 mg/l of chlorine." www.home-barista.com/knockbox/third-wave-water-t44736.html#p507586 What are your thoughts? And the composition was in a thread more pour over related but water in general so I don't know if it was espresso or brew.
Based on the above discussion, SCAA states 10mg/L of sodium not sodium chloride? Is he right that it the chloride is in an ionic state and energy or electrolysis is needed to produce a molecule of chloride. I don't know if I buy this, because electrolysis or corrosion is always occurring whether it is as you boil water in your Stainless Steel Bonivita or whether one is running shot of espresso. Water acting as the electrolyte is going to produce a flow of current when exposed to a cathode and anode and ultimately I would think chloride molecules would form?
What impact does a Zero Water filter have if I use it in my reservoir? Is it the equivalent of RO or Distilled? Should I treat it like in your water treatment video with epsom and baking soda? My normal tap water is a TDS of around 20, with chlorine for sure.
Hi Ron, Thanks for the question. Zero Water uses a DI resin to remove dissolved solids and bring TDS to near zero. I would most definitely re-mineralize water that's at zero TDS. You can do that as in my video with baking soda and epsom salt. If your unfiltered tap water is at 20ppm TDS I'd be really surprised. That's incredibly soft! A simple activated carbon filter would take care of tap water chlorination. Really no need to use a filter with DI resin on water that soft out of the tap. If your tap water really is 20ppm TDS I'd re-mineralize that as well before using for coffee/espresso brewing. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi Marc.. Thanks for the great info (helping me get yet another variable under control). Do you recommend any test method or testing brands? I was about to go insane trying to figure out testers for hydroponics, hopefully diving off the deep end will not be required here, LOL. I do have a bestMAX (not hooked up yet). I found “Hach” test strips that measure TDS, free & total chlorine alkalinity and pH.. But they don’t measure calcium carbonate specifically (nor sodium, but I’m pretty sure I have soft water already). I’m under the impression the main thing I want to test is the calcium, so should I buy additional test strips for calcium carbonate specifically? I noticed it there is a much higher TDS range than calcium alone..
Hi Robert, You are welcome! Honestly you don't need to go too deep into testing if you know your water is relatively soft already. As long as your tap water is safe to drink and doesn't have any weird edge case issues the BWT Bestmax has you covered. Just be sure to set the bypass properly on the BWT head. For that all you need is to test for total hardness. No need to test for calcium separately. If you're water is relatively soft your bypass setting will be a 3. Total hardness test strips are fine to use and very inexpensive. Or, get the info for free! Most municipal water authorities publish water quality test results online or you could contact them for the information. Here's what the online report looks like in my area showing total hardness of 120ppm: mcwa-wordpress-media.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2020-Data-Summary.pdf Here's a chart which converts ppm to German hardness degrees which you will use to set your bypass: monarchwater.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Water-hardness-conversion-table.pdf For me it works out like this: Total hardness 120ppm (same as 120 mg/L) = 6.7 degrees German hardness. I'd set my filter head bypass to 3 and get 1,070L of filter capacity from a Bestmax S size filter. If you do test, be aware the total hardness will not change much after filtration as much of the limescale causing calcium is exchanged for magnesium in the filter. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi Meredith, pH 6.6 is within the 6.5-7.5 SCA spec for brew water. More info on that here: www.scaa.org/?d=water-standards&page=resources Slightly acidic water is less likely to cause scale in a machine but there are other variables like mineral hardness and alkalinity which play into that. The best approach is to test your rainwater, treat with minerals, test again and adjust dosing of supplements as needed. Marc
Hi Marc! Thanks for the clarification with water in brewing espresso. So, I have soft water coming from the tap, around 55 ppm. I currently don't have a strip to test for calcium directly. I am currently assuming that calcium level is low enough not to be concerned for lime scaling. However, I wonder if low alkalinity is going to cause strip damage to my machine. I have a BWT water pouch, which I am hesitant to use for that purpose. Should I use the pouch for balancing out the alkalinity? Or is adding some baking soda to the soft tap water a good solution? (I couldn't help myself with the pun) Again, thanks always for great content!
Hi Josh, You're welcome. At 55 ppm scaling potential is low. But, if using tap water straight I would still descale every 6 months just to be sure. I think it's unlikely alkalinity would be an issue - what's the pH of your water? If above 6.5 no worries. If significantly lower you could use baking soda. The BWT Bestsave pad filter exchanges magnesium for calcium and has activated carbon to remove chlorination. As far as I know it will not change your alkalinity. It will reduce calcium and keep you at or near your current hardness. If you were to use the Bestsave you would not need to descale. Marc
You cannot dechlorinate municipal water by letting it sit open for 24 hours because most water authorities don't use chlorine they use chloramine which is chlorine gas; it's not removable without chemicals
Hi Marc I heard somewhere that the water for an espresso should be chilled prior to entering the machine. I.g. putting some ice on the reservoir to chill the water. Does water temperature has any effect on taste or anything? Thank you! Great info on all of your videos!
Hi R, You are welcome for the videos! Hmm... chilling water prior to putting it into the machine. That's a new one on me. When I'm filling a reservoir I always use water from the cold water tap. But, I don't think chilling water has any affect. In most machines the water in the reservoir will warm up a bit due to proximity of the boilers and once in the boiler it's going to be heated anyway so I don't see why it would make a difference. Marc
Hi! I have been using a 5 stage RO system at home because water is pretty hard. I get great tasting coffee from it. Do I still need to test for balances or does the RO takes care of most of it? thanks
Hi CM, Thanks for the question. It depends... Does your RO system produce zero TDS water? If so, then your water is actually too pure. Zero TDS water will over-extract coffee and the lack of minerals produces a flat flavor. While extra pure water sounds like it would be better, it is not. Beyond lacking flavor it can also be a problem for the machine. With mineral free water you will get no scale deposits but you actually want a small amount of scale to form in boilers. A very thin layer of scale inhibits leaching of boiler metals. There are many different configurations of RO systems. Some residential and commercial systems mix untreated or partially treated water back in with fully treated water to arrive at water with reduced minerals etc but not perfectly pure. Not knowing how your system is setup, I would test for hardness, alkalinity and pH and see how it compares to SCA standards. If your water is zero TDS, it's fairly easy to add some baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) to create water that's inline with SCA standards. Look for a new video showing how to do that in thew next week or so.
Hi there. :) I have a fully automatic that has a filter in the water resivouir. I usually get my water from my refrigerator water spout which also is carbon filtered. Is this too much filtering? I am interested in how double filtering affects the machine and coffee taste.
Hi Stephanie, Thanks for a great question! I cannot be certain, but it's likely your fridge filter only has carbon and sediment filtration and does not soften the water (replace some level of minerals with salt). If it's carbon only, then no worries as carbon is there to remove chlorine and chemicals with very minimal effect on minerals. Your machine's in reservoir filter most likely has both carbon and softening. Putting your brew water through 2 carbon filter is not a problem. Even if your fridge filter does have softening, it's likely not an issue as once the mineral level is reduced an additional run through second softening filter will have no affect.
Awesome!! Thanks!! I did test the water hardness directly from the tap and it barely registered. The one good thing with our area is we never have to worry about hard water. The town takes great care of our water supply!
Great video, I worked in and around water treatment for everything from drink water, wastewater, and ultra pure water for injection. It always amazes me the influence this substance has on our lives and how different characteristics of the same parameters are important for all aspects of our lives. It is,to my mind at least, the single most amazing thing in our everyday lives.
Hu Sarah, Thanks for the comment - so very true!
Marc
FYI, evaporation only works for chlorine. However most municipal water treatment also uses chloromides, which are bonded and therefore non-volatile. You will absolutely need a carbon filter to remove chloromides, which have a similar negative impact on flavor.
Love the information! Glad you all are here! Many Thanks! PT
Our pleasure! And thanks for your comment!
Marc
Commenting about how water characteristics affect taste is very educating. Thanks.
Hi b, You are welcome and thank you for the comment!
Marc
Beautiful aquarium Marc! And that's quite the chemistry set you have there for water testing! :D The coffee you brew at home must be outstanding!! :)
Hi, Thanks! I use the kit for testing aquarium and the tap water for coffee! I'm not the only one using a reef aquarium test kit for coffee water.
I have also used water test strips sold for aquariums. They are very helpful! I use a Rocket resin filter in my espresso machine's water tank to reduce the hardness. It does make a difference in my coffee's flavor. :)
As usual, great info!!!
That's perfect! Should help reduce scale as well. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Mark for the informative video. The information on sodium was especially interesting regarding the effect on taste (too little-sweet/too much-sour). Thanks again!
Hi Waltski, You are welcome and thanks for the comment! Stay tuned for new video tomorrow on how to make SCA spec brew water.
Hi Marc,
good information, it makes totally sense! If we think that a good espresso or cup of coffee is
made with 96-98% of water, that is as important as the coffee, grinder
and machine.
.... interesting I also had aquariums and used an reverse-osmosis system
with adds and testings.
Our current water supply in central
Switzerland has about 30fh and all other tube staff, so very hard water.
I found two mineral waters for a perfect blend. Its work blending them,
buying and carrying the bottles, but all in all it gives fantastic
coffee, tea
water and prevents our Expobar dual boiler. Cost's are more or less the
same with our hardness if I calculate the BWT Pats and Table Filter (we
need min. two filters in order to break it down form 30-35fh to 6/7 dh).
However the BWT Bestmax Premium after 600lt would be a little cheaper,
but as far as I am aware it can't filter hormones and drug chemicals.
Therefore as long as I get these mineral waters at reasonable price
here, I do the work and blend it.
Best Espresso regards
Kurt
Hi Kurt, Thanks for the comment! Sounds like you found a good solution for getting around some very hard water. Guessing you are in a mountainous region? Extra hard water is common in those areas - same for parts of Western US. A lot depends on the source. My tap water comes mostly from the Great Lakes with TDS usually about 150ppm. I believe activated carbon filtration will remove chemicals beyond chlorine. I run a sock of it in my aquarium sump to remove poisons given off by corals I keep.
Also, if you still have the RO system might consider using that water dosed with minerals etc to bring it up to standards for brewing. I'll be doing a video on that soon. When I started the aquarium years ago I used to purchase RO/DI water from the aquarium shop for weekly water changes. Got tired of paying for and carrying 15 gallons of water home all the time. I was spending about $25/mo on water. I picked up a 50 gallon/day RO/DI system with the input/output TDS meter for about $85. Paid for itself in < 4 months!
Hi Marc
yes and no I live in Baar / Zug central Switzerland, whole Switzerland has hard water except some cities when its form the Lake supply. We in the canton of Zug have source water and our mountain of Zug is only 800 meters above sea level. not very high but one of the hardest waters in Swtzerland.
www.zug-tourismus.ch/en/home
When I had the aquarium I also used an RO system the TDS is imprtant and metal contents also. Guess you blend aquarium water, RO/DI water with some additives or some regular tap water.
Still its work but for a beautiful result. what is nicer to sit early morning in front of an aquarium with a good espresso and enjoying the fishes.
Thank u v v marc 4 wonderful informative vdos God bless U & us all Amen
You are very welcome!
Marc
Thanks Marc! Who knew so many variables could impact coffee quality. I hope my spring water is adequate, will have to get a kit to test. Awesome hobby too! I hope to someday graduate to a saltwater tank.. lots of work and $$ but worth it! Absolutely a beautiful addition to any house 😎
Hi Drew, You are welcome and thanks for the comment! Do test your spring water. No worries about chlorine but depending on source TDS, hardness, alkalinity, pH could be out of whack. Mixed reef aquariums do take some work, $$ and dedication to get up and running. But once established, which takes about 18 months, not much different than fresh water - except much more interesting and colorful!
Excellent informations, Marc!!
Hi Rodrigo, Thanks so much for the comment. Love hearing that a whole latte :)
Marc
Third Wave Water is great for espresso and drip. Love that stuff! La Marzocco is doing insane stuff with water studies right now and I think within a few years we'll see custom water blends that accentuate sweetness, bitterness, etc to suit the tastes of the cafe, region, etc.
Hi Chiro75, Water really makes a difference! As mentioned in the video I'll be sharing some water recipes in the coming weeks. It's where you start with distilled or zero TDS RO/DI water and add minerals etc to create water qualities as desired. Everything from SCA standard water to water used in various coffee competitions. It's geek level stuff but can definitely see how certain water profiles might bring be matched with coffees to compliment flavor.
What is your take on Third Wave Water's NaCl content? Why would they create a product that intentionally adds chlorides and deviates from the SCAA standard?
I found this on Home Barista where they came forward and stated that each 1.5 gram packet of Third Wave Water contains the following: 1.1 grams of magnesium sulfate, .3 grams calcium citrate and .1 grams of sodium chloride . What is your take on the Calcium Citrate? Curious if adding this to your recipe would be detrimental or beneficial?
weird. I forgot to subscribe, but I got an update about this video anyways. cool, subscribed, liked, and commented.
I like clean water. this is great info :)
Hi Audrey, Thanks for the comment, like and subscribe! Glad you got the update. I'll have more on water in the coming weeks.
Marc
i started adding a little distilled water to my tank. I think it reduces the hardness but maybe the water is a little acid now. its only like a cup to 8 cups tap.
Hi HCG, It would reduce hardness but it really depends on where you are starting. For extra hard water adding 1 cup distilled to 8 cups tap is not going to reduce it much - just 12.5%. Would not worry about acid. Distilled water is neutral at pH 7. Technically when exposed to air it does absorb CO2 so over time it may be slightly under pH of 7 but not so much it would make any difference especially when diluted into the tap water. If you think your tap water is way out of standard, stay tuned for a video coming soon we'll show how to add a buffer and mineral source to distilled water to make SCA standard water and more.
thank you for this...I always thought distilled water was acidic because it likes to strip minerals from things because it has none. I will stay tuned.
You are welcome!
Hello and thank you for the video! I too have saltwater reef tanks and a water filtration system for them. Mine has Reverse Osmosis with the additional stage for de-ionization. It looked like from the video that yours does, too. My question is, is it ok to use the full RODI filtered water, or should I bypass the de-ionization stage?
Thank you,
Rob
Hi RR and hey fellow reefer! No need to go around the DI stage. But do be sure to remineralize your RO or RODI water before using in machine!
Marc
I have the BWT penguin pitcher - but the water is still very hard out of the pitcher. Is the water safe to use in the ECM Synchronika? My main concern is preventing scaling/damage.
Hi a, If using the pitcher as directed you will not get scale in your machine. If you tested total hardness of water from the pitcher it's measuring the magnesium as part of the hardness. The magnesium will not cause scale in the machines. If you were to measure carbonate hardness it should be lower after treatment in pitcher.
Couple of Questions: First thank you Marc for all of your video's, they are very informative and I love you aquarium. 1. What is your take on Third Wave Water's NaCl content? Why would they create a product that intentionally adds chlorides and deviates from the SCAA standard?and 2.I found this on Home Barista where they came forward and stated that each 1.5 gram packet of Third Wave Water contains the following: 1.1 grams of magnesium sulfate, .3 grams calcium citrate and .1 grams of sodium chloride . What is your take on the Calcium Citrate? Curious if adding this to your recipe would be
Hi Robert, Thanks for your kind comments and questions. One for you: Do
you know which Third Wave Water prep those amounts are for? Curious if
that is their Classic or Espresso. For sodium chloride, the SCA standard
is 10mg/L. Which equals .01g/L. Each of their packets treats a gallon.
Converting that to gallons it's .0378g sodium chloride to get SCAA
levels in a gallon. If my math is correct, .1g per gallon puts you at
about 2.6X the SCA level or about 26mg/L. That sounds big but actually
not a huge jump. You need about 50mg/L to cause sour flavors. A few
years ago I experimented with adding a tiny pinch of salt directly to
ground coffee in a portafilter prior to pulling an espresso. The thought
was the salt might benefit flavor. With all the other variables
involved in espresso I did not come away with a definitive opinion as to
whether it helped enhance flavor or not. There is a feeling/opinion
that espresso is better when using brew water with a higher mineral
content than what you would use for slower brewing methods like drip
etc. My take on the calcium Citrate... It's there as part of the overall
mineral content with the mg. You could get rid of the calcium and
increase the magnesium or vice versa. In espresso equipment high calcium
levels can lead to boiler scaling while magnesium at balanced levels
are less likely to form scale.
The recipe was on Home Barista from Taylor of Third Wave Water, it was back on 12-31-2016 where he stated; "For those who are wondering what's in it....Each capsule is a total 1.5g grams. 1.1 grams of magnesium sulfate, .3 grams of calcium citrate and .1 grams of sodium chloride.
www.home-barista.com/knockbox/good-references-on-water-treatment-for-coffee-espresso-t41636-10.html
Today I wrote; "I am surprised you provided the content of the packet used to treat 1 gallon of water? I am curious as to the sodium chloride. The SCAA starndards allow 0 mg/L of total chlorine, can you expound on this discrepancy?
Today at 9:54am he replied:
"First why are you surprised I provided the contents of the packet. Second when NaCl dissolves in water your are left with Cl- (the negatively charged chloride ion) which is harmless. If you want to chlorinate your TWW you will need to perform electrolysis to create Cl2 (Chlorine). TWW has 0 mg/l of chlorine."
www.home-barista.com/knockbox/third-wave-water-t44736.html#p507586
What are your thoughts? And the composition was in a thread more pour over related but water in general so I don't know if it was espresso or brew.
Based on the above discussion, SCAA states 10mg/L of sodium not sodium chloride? Is he right that it the chloride is in an ionic state and energy or electrolysis is needed to produce a molecule of chloride. I don't know if I buy this, because electrolysis or corrosion is always occurring whether it is as you boil water in your Stainless Steel Bonivita or whether one is running shot of espresso. Water acting as the electrolyte is going to produce a flow of current when exposed to a cathode and anode and ultimately I would think chloride molecules would form?
What impact does a Zero Water filter have if I use it in my reservoir? Is it the equivalent of RO or Distilled? Should I treat it like in your water treatment video with epsom and baking soda? My normal tap water is a TDS of around 20, with chlorine for sure.
Hi Ron, Thanks for the question. Zero Water uses a DI resin to remove dissolved solids and bring TDS to near zero. I would most definitely re-mineralize water that's at zero TDS. You can do that as in my video with baking soda and epsom salt. If your unfiltered tap water is at 20ppm TDS I'd be really surprised. That's incredibly soft! A simple activated carbon filter would take care of tap water chlorination. Really no need to use a filter with DI resin on water that soft out of the tap. If your tap water really is 20ppm TDS I'd re-mineralize that as well before using for coffee/espresso brewing. Hope that helps!
Marc
Hi Marc.. Thanks for the great info (helping me get yet another variable under control).
Do you recommend any test method or testing brands?
I was about to go insane trying to figure out testers for hydroponics, hopefully diving off the deep end will not be required here, LOL. I do have a bestMAX (not hooked up yet).
I found “Hach” test strips that measure TDS, free & total chlorine alkalinity and pH.. But they don’t measure calcium carbonate specifically (nor sodium, but I’m pretty sure I have soft water already).
I’m under the impression the main thing I want to test is the calcium, so should I buy additional test strips for calcium carbonate specifically? I noticed it there is a much higher TDS range than calcium alone..
Hi Robert,
You are welcome!
Honestly you don't need to go too deep into testing if you know your water is relatively soft already. As long as your tap water is safe to drink and doesn't have any weird edge case issues the BWT Bestmax has you covered. Just be sure to set the bypass properly on the BWT head. For that all you need is to test for total hardness. No need to test for calcium separately. If you're water is relatively soft your bypass setting will be a 3. Total hardness test strips are fine to use and very inexpensive. Or, get the info for free! Most municipal water authorities publish water quality test results online or you could contact them for the information.
Here's what the online report looks like in my area showing total hardness of 120ppm: mcwa-wordpress-media.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2020-Data-Summary.pdf
Here's a chart which converts ppm to German hardness degrees which you will use to set your bypass: monarchwater.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Water-hardness-conversion-table.pdf
For me it works out like this:
Total hardness 120ppm (same as 120 mg/L) = 6.7 degrees German hardness.
I'd set my filter head bypass to 3 and get 1,070L of filter capacity from a Bestmax S size filter.
If you do test, be aware the total hardness will not change much after filtration as much of the limescale causing calcium is exchanged for magnesium in the filter.
Hope that helps!
Marc
Any comments regarding rainwater?
Hi Meredith, pH 6.6 is within the 6.5-7.5 SCA spec for brew water. More info on that here: www.scaa.org/?d=water-standards&page=resources
Slightly acidic water is less likely to cause scale in a machine but there are other variables like mineral hardness and alkalinity which play into that. The best approach is to test your rainwater, treat with minerals, test again and adjust dosing of supplements as needed.
Marc
Hi Marc! Thanks for the clarification with water in brewing espresso.
So, I have soft water coming from the tap, around 55 ppm. I currently don't have a strip to test for calcium directly. I am currently assuming that calcium level is low enough not to be concerned for lime scaling. However, I wonder if low alkalinity is going to cause strip damage to my machine.
I have a BWT water pouch, which I am hesitant to use for that purpose. Should I use the pouch for balancing out the alkalinity? Or is adding some baking soda to the soft tap water a good solution? (I couldn't help myself with the pun)
Again, thanks always for great content!
Hi Josh, You're welcome. At 55 ppm scaling potential is low. But, if using tap water straight I would still descale every 6 months just to be sure. I think it's unlikely alkalinity would be an issue - what's the pH of your water? If above 6.5 no worries. If significantly lower you could use baking soda. The BWT Bestsave pad filter exchanges magnesium for calcium and has activated carbon to remove chlorination. As far as I know it will not change your alkalinity. It will reduce calcium and keep you at or near your current hardness. If you were to use the Bestsave you would not need to descale.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for your input!
You cannot dechlorinate municipal water by letting it sit open for 24 hours because most water authorities don't use chlorine they use chloramine which is chlorine gas; it's not removable without chemicals
Hi Marc
I heard somewhere that the water for an espresso should be chilled prior to entering the machine. I.g. putting some ice on the reservoir to chill the water. Does water temperature has any effect on taste or anything?
Thank you! Great info on all of your videos!
Hi R, You are welcome for the videos! Hmm... chilling water prior to putting it into the machine. That's a new one on me. When I'm filling a reservoir I always use water from the cold water tap. But, I don't think chilling water has any affect. In most machines the water in the reservoir will warm up a bit due to proximity of the boilers and once in the boiler it's going to be heated anyway so I don't see why it would make a difference.
Marc
Hi! I have been using a 5 stage RO system at home because water is pretty hard. I get great tasting coffee from it. Do I still need to test for balances or does the RO takes care of most of it? thanks
Hi CM, Thanks for the question. It depends... Does your RO system produce zero TDS water? If so, then your water is actually too pure. Zero TDS water will over-extract coffee and the lack of minerals produces a flat flavor. While extra pure water sounds like it would be better, it is not. Beyond lacking flavor it can also be a problem for the machine. With mineral free water you will get no scale deposits but you actually want a small amount of scale to form in boilers. A very thin layer of scale inhibits leaching of boiler metals. There are many different configurations of RO systems. Some residential and commercial systems mix untreated or partially treated water back in with fully treated water to arrive at water with reduced minerals etc but not perfectly pure. Not knowing how your system is setup, I would test for hardness, alkalinity and pH and see how it compares to SCA standards. If your water is zero TDS, it's fairly easy to add some baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) to create water that's inline with SCA standards. Look for a new video showing how to do that in thew next week or so.
Hi thanks for the reply. I do not recall if we get 0 TDS but I'll start from there thank you. looking forward to the next video.
You are welcome!
Hi there. :) I have a fully automatic that has a filter in the water resivouir. I usually get my water from my refrigerator water spout which also is carbon filtered. Is this too much filtering? I am interested in how double filtering affects the machine and coffee taste.
Hi Stephanie, Thanks for a great question! I cannot be certain, but it's likely your fridge filter only has carbon and sediment filtration and does not soften the water (replace some level of minerals with salt). If it's carbon only, then no worries as carbon is there to remove chlorine and chemicals with very minimal effect on minerals. Your machine's in reservoir filter most likely has both carbon and softening. Putting your brew water through 2 carbon filter is not a problem. Even if your fridge filter does have softening, it's likely not an issue as once the mineral level is reduced an additional run through second softening filter will have no affect.
Awesome!! Thanks!! I did test the water hardness directly from the tap and it barely registered. The one good thing with our area is we never have to worry about hard water. The town takes great care of our water supply!