Disruptor corvettes are amazing against Contingency. At least as long as you have enough damage coming elsewhere that you are winning the war of attrition.
If you’re going against a x25 crisis, I find that the only safe bet is to throw a billion of the longest-range battleships you have at it, kill it before it kills you.
if you saw the other videos on corvettes and destroyers. you should know, you switch to the next "tonnage" class as you unlock it. and build only that until cruisers show up. And as in this video explained, PvE, you go all rounders only and watch everything, other then crisis, cry as you keeel them xD With that said, sure. i would also like to see a video on it, since a literally never saw Montu's "all rounder" class anywhere before. Hence, i'm certain he can come up with something i've never seen before xD
were they ever a meme ship...? I mean, sure, they wer enot max evasion destroyers or the evergreen battleship, but all laser cruiser would make you able to take on any enemy starbases with no losses, and they where pretty good with hangars and such. I don't think they were ever bad
they were just worse battleships. both destroyers and corvettes had benefits over battleships in certain areas, but cruisers were basically useless as soon as you unlocked battleships
@@AndrewTheUltraBoss99 Nobody used cruisers back in my days in 2.6. I just came back after i finally upgraded my pc to give this lategamelag game another try (so far so good with mit 7800x3d) and was like "what? Cruisers are usefull? the fuck happend?"
I will say, Stellaris has hit very close to how modern navies since WW1 have operated with the ship classes. Corvettes very quickly became patrol boats/mine tenders and dont have a place in battle lines, frigates were specialty ships and are rarely seen. Cruisers are the most versatile class and in WW2 there were some that could go hold their own against a Battleship. Battleships are vulnerable without a support fleet, but deadly and terrifying when supported. The missile and aircraft era has changed the dynamic drastically but that is reflected well in Stellaris as well. Without PD you are asking to get slapped around
I really prefer this meta for that reason. Space combat realistically would not be anything like naval combat but most people are familiar with the basics of naval combat and most sci-fi media just grants that space combat is like naval combat. Ironically space combat in Stellaris used to be more realistic in the bad (but very funny) old days of naked corvettes.
@zhadowmoon5811 I tend to like my BBs as giant missile boats, but I build my fleets to be fast and have lots of long range missiles keep everything at max range, and use DDs as my flak screen since usually only enemy missiles can reach me. I don't use Frigates once I unlock Cruisers, and again they are usually just fast missile boats with some attack craft. My BBs are just bigger versions of them, and I usually build a lot more cruisers than BBs... I almost use my BBs as shields for my fleet. I'd rather all the fire hit them since they can take it, and collectively my Cruisers do more damage than my BBs, and usually die much quicker. The BBs can take a massive beating especially if you have a lot of Point Defense DDs with them
@@IntusMortuum Basically the same. I like carriers but Missiles are generally the way to go in this meta. Frigates are really fragile and tend to take the brunt of casualties in the late game.
I'd love an anti-crisis build video; I've been trying to wrap my head around the shipbuilding system, but frankly on the level of play I do, it's really just the crises and Fallen Empires that it really matters for at the moment.
Best ship class? Either your first additional science ship or your first colony ship. Don't recall as much excitement, hope and pain invested into any other ships in this game. Or any other loss being as painful and impactful.
You gotta be real careful with your combat computer on anything with a firing arc because if they are always retreating to long range then they cant shoot with enemies approaching them
Firing arc doesn't really matter, since in stellaris ships have almost instant turn rates. Battleships can pivot on their axis a full 180 degrees instantly and take aim to shoot their x-slot weapon for example. Minimum range is the only problem, as for kiting, if your ship is faster and there is enough space, they can always retreat successfully to stay at range, turn to shoot instantly on a dime and have no issues.
@@lostbutfreesoul as said before, if they are faster, they will outrun the enemy, turn, shoot, then turn again and keep running. If they are slower, well, you're dead :)
@@lostbutfreesoul You can't micro manage fights in stellaris, the ships just behave as they do. You can see this behavior as you view the fight in game, or on some of the combats featured on Montu's channel for example.
So I have spent too much time delving into ship designs after the 3.9 rework, and especially after your SHIP WEAPONS TIER LIST video. I'd like to submit a 2-part Battleship design that I think does what the All-rounder Cruiser can do, but better. The first is the Mothership class Battleship: X-slot: Tachyon Lance Hangers: 2x Driller Drones M-slots: 2x Whirlwind Missiles S-slots: 2x Small Missiles The second is the Artillery class Battleship: X-slot: Tachyon Lance L slots: 4x Kinetic Artillery The purpose here, as you'll quickly see, is to use the Artillery battleship to help remove the shields of your opponents while the Driller Drones eviscerate them. The Driller Drones are naturally good against smaller ships, doing ~35 avg dmg per tick with perfect accuracy and good tracking. The Tachyon Lances are good vs larger ships, taking them out at the start of the battle and doing increased damage vs armor. The Kinetic Artillery is good against Cruisers and Battleships, since as Montu says in this video, artillery tends to be better against them since they have low evasion. I focus on the strike craft, running a ratio of around 7:3 Motherships to Artillery. If you want, you can also swap the Mothership X slot for another Driller Drone and more PD. These two designs struggle a lot vs lots of Torpedos, because nothing you do with a battleship will ever prevent them from being weak to that. They require ships to screen for them still. I made a full reddit post going over the numbers for these designs, plus their defensive and aux slots; as well as good designs for the early and late game if anyone is interested.
one thing about art. cruiser is the range of the combat computer is determined by your weapon median range meaning that it is not your smallest weapon max range nor its your average range rather its your median range meaning if you fill the slots with 120 120 120 100 100 100 100 then your median is 100 still far away (this is MEDIAN RANGE) and this works only with pickit, Line and Artillery computers only. and thank you for a great video
I'm playing like 3.3 because i haven't had internet in my apartment for a year. Can you explain why I would ever want swarmer missiles as opposed to devastator torpedoes?
@@cosmictreason2242 New version of Stellaris did a combat update. Devastator torpedoes have a max range of 30, Whirlwind missiles are 100 or 120. Missiles with Artillery combat computers create kiting behavior in the missile ships, so the torpedo ships never get into range to fire before taking so much missile damage they blow up or disengage.
@@cosmictreason2242they massively outrange any M or S slot weapon. Combined with afterburners, you can create cruisers that in the mid game can kite down other ships, like torpedo cruisers, without problems. And before Battleships, hardly any ship design will have L slot weapons, so you will nearly always have a range advantage
Genuinely surprised the torpedo/disruptor cruiser didn't come up as a generalist. I find AI tends to build very little PD, so you don't have to worry about overwhelming them. Even if they do, sprinkle in a few swarmer/carrier battleships to work that side.
Torpedo cruisers with swarm missiles are my standard starbase-killers and leviathan-hunters. Im not sure exactly what the multipliers are for those, but they're certainly high enough to make a hell of a difference.
Like others have said in other posts whirlwind and quantum missile spam is massively effective when combined with artillery computer and triple afterburners. You outrange and kite anything other than battleships. With so many missiles being fired any PD the enemy has is overwhelmed and totally ineffective. The AI hardly ever build anything to counter these Cruisers. I also take increased range picks for my Admirals whenever available and it really helps. Using a single weapon type also helps with the research repeatables as well. Struggles with fallen empires but they just sit around until you are ready to pluck them like a ripe cherry so can refit if needed.
Aside from the artillery cruiser build, I have been using builds almost identical to these ever since I found Stellaris early last year. Edit: Some slight variations from here on what I use: 1) Carrier Cruiser - swap the torpedo for neutron launcher if you get the Zroni Storm Caster and put up a few Zroni Bastion's in key choke points. Then reinforce them with all armor cruisers with the carrier build and neutron launchers instead. Use Carrier computer. 2) Carrier Cruiser 2 - all rounder variant - swap the torpedo bow for broad side bow and go with Whirlwind Missiles. Their max range is 120, before modifiers, which is almost equal to that of your hangars at 125. Their missiles will also help further swamp enemy point defense.
I would love a shipbuilding for beginners or how to build ships during the game as I usually just play with auto on I would love to learn to strategize some more but it feels so overwhelming and I don’t know what works better for what situations
That disruptor cruiser/destroyer comboed with torpedo cruisers really saved my bacon the other day when 4 player federation fleet tried to subjugate me. Their fleet strength went from "overwhelming" to "equilivant" in record time.
Thank you for this video! A question: why aren't you using the artillery CC for the disruptor cruisers? Since the maximum weapons range is defined by the M disruptors (40), this CC will also try to stay always in range. And it doesn't grant you unnecessary tracking, but instead weapons range and fire rate.
I absolutely love my cloaked missile cruiser build. Max speed, psionic cloak, psionic shields, swarmer/marauder missiles, kiting etc. They may be real imperfect, but i like the idea do deal a first devastating blow from nowhere P. S. I like how Montu turns the classes of cruisers into rock-paper-scissors.
There is one build missing that I'd like to see, Carrier/Whirlwind missle cruiser without torpedos. It may not be as effective vs battleships, but how about other cruisers?
With the way the artillery computer range works, you can actually put on a few missiles with shorter range without it affecting the range your ship will stay at, at all. Most combat computers (those that say medium range) will take the median (not average), of your weapons' ranges, and stay at that one. The artillery computer takes the highest instead. So if you had a ship with a single range 120 weapon, and then full on disruptors, it would still sit at range 120.
Median is an average. Mean is what you’re conflating with average. There are 3 main measures of central tendency all of which can be called average which isn’t a mathematical term.
I always have 6-8 cruiser designs by the time I get bored of the save file, a main battle cruiser, a light carriar, artillery, energy artillery, half carriar half battle carriar, autocannon cruiser, stealth cruiser, I might've missed 1 or 2
Great, great, great video! I added a couple of these to my fleet designs right away. I think from now on I am using the all around cruiser in place of Defensive platforms. They are more expensive, but they won't get auto destroyed if you lose the starbase.
For the all rounder torp computers are much better than artilery computers. The majorty of your damage will come from torps, then either missle or strike craft depending how long the fight goes on and shield hardening.
If you come up against torpedo's you will be in trouble though! As they will out torpedo your torpedoes. That is less of an issue in single player or vs mixed fleets though ofc
Ideal ships should be a blend of different builds. The Jack of Trades should be the ideal view of implementation. And as for ships, it should be a mix of ships. You need some corvettes, some destroyers, some frigates, some cruisers, a couple of battleships, a few titans and a dreadnaught. That would be and should be the best built. If you go too far one way, you will leave yourself vulnerable in another way, either in how a single ship is built or how many if a certain class.
The answer for endgame at least for me has always bin focused arc emiters on empty hulls repeatables combined with building over starbase and fleet cap means you end up with like 40mil in fleet power of ships that instantly end the fight after one or two vollys before the other side even fires
Been playing on Admiral difficulty and ive experienced that whirlwind missile+speed cruiser rushes against the ai are really powerful. Is that still the case or do they now know how to counter it?
The artillery crusier shoud add a swarm missle in the tail. Since you don't actually need that extra A slot for another afterburner, and swarm missle also have the range of 120.
Hey montu, i'm suggesting a high all-crisis guide video (for 10x and 25x). I feel like there's barely any guide content on all-crisis, and especially high/max all-crisis mechanics.
There's a channel on youtube, Tachyon lance, who has playthroughs where they beat a 50x contingency on grand admiral (In a game with 3 crisis back to back, the first one 25x crisis, each stronger than the last, with contingency being the last to spawn, spawning at around 50x lol). Generally, with enough scaling tech, you can beat any crisis, it just depends how much time you give yourself to prepare (And how well you manage to scale your economy, or how long you bother before going on autopilot mode lol). For anything over 5x, short range weapons are bad as the crisis gets so much extra damage they will one shot your ships, so long range weapons and carriers tend to do really well against them. 25x crisis can even one shot battleships (Less likely with repeatables on your armor and shield health), so your best bet is to outrange them and use carriers with lots of repeatables. For 5x and below crisis, disruptors work fine, even against contingency (Generally the most challenging crisis). Disruptor cruisers with 1 torpedo slot on the bow for extra punch against stations, otherwise they won't be able to defeat the purification hubs (Or other starbases the other crisis make). I tested swarmer missiles as well, but they actually did worse than disruptors against 5x contingency with a similar amount of repeatables (Around 5 for both energy and explosive damage). To make them work, you need a big system with lots of space so the ships can kite and you need a lot of repeatables to have them deal enough damage, as they need to chew through the armor first and thus need to deal with almost 10 times the HP, but against stronger crisis the range is critical.
That one guy who made a response video to this reminded me of something I'd meant to ask. All the videos I see are mono-ship fleets. Do people not use mixed fleets with screening vessels anymore? I still tend to build like the old battleship meta, arty battleships with fast, screening ships.
I'm glad the post 3.6 ship series is continuing. I've been very lost with ship designs since the update, and my playstyle has been wholly altered because of it.
Are these builds still valid? Especially the torpedo cruiser and all around cruisers? I've just started playing and this video is really helpful, but want to make sure that the game hasn't changed too much since it was made! Thanks!
In pve you can build literally whatever you want , but Ive would say battleships is most comfortable ships ( but if you dealing with strong crisis build small ships as meat shield for them )
I've been building something similar to the all-rounder, swapping out the torpedo bow for paired whirlwind missiles, and generally a more balanced weighting on defensive modules.
So are battleships out of vogue now? I've been wondering what other ship classes are worth building. I barely see frigates get mentioned. Corvette spam is not the worst to counter anymore. Keep a ring of PD destroyers around cruisers and maybe battleships?
I really like making cruisers with swarm missiles & regular missiles, plus the artillery computer. Add some afterburners, armour hardening + regeneration, and you're good to go! The AI still seems to have a heck of a time dealing with them if you can stay at range.
I've already been using the allrounder for a while against AI. They are just a dream to work with. And then I build specialized fleets to deal with whatever crisis I get.
Thanks for this Montu. I started up a Necrophage Leader build yesterday and would up really snowballing in my playthrough (I tend to stagnate pretty hard in strategy games). Long story short I managed to vassalize a neighbor, build up a massive economy, and then found an Ether Drake, which I killed and reanimated. I went from around 50K fleets (equivalent to most of the galaxy) to 120K overnight. I then launched a secret fealty war and took another vassal, but now the galaxy doesn’t want to even mess with me because I’m too strong. I’m now considering a Crisis run to force the rest of the Galaxy to really fight me, so I need some strong ships to take down a Fallen Empire and then burn my way across the stars. Thanks for enabling my galactic genocide.
One of the reason why I do not actively play Stellaris anymore (I want to return but...I only see problem swaping each patch not problem solving), is that often just one ship class dominates everything (maybe when we are lucky two classes are useful within a patch), which in turn makes the game more boring. Its a prime example of where balance would be important, just for the mere reason to make parts of a game (like other ship classes) not basically obsolete.
I've been manually building ships ever since I first started watching your vids a year ago. However, I will now do all my future playthroughs with autobuild only, just to make you sad.
I think you should add like, the default "the game chooses desing" for not so advanced players for comparison to see the differrence. To make us/others bother with changing desings, than just keeping it as the game wants. (if youre not playing competitive, challenges, x25 crisis and so on...)
Always thought Artillery Combat Computers would keep your ships at the distance of your longest range weapon. So there should not be a problem with adding missiles (that would be great for repelling corvette swarms that try to rush you down)
I know they would be countered by point-defence, but in PvE I always run a mix of Whirlwind Missiles+Cruise Missiles with an Artillery computer, max afterburners (3). They consistently win even when facing a stronger fleet, but researching them also is very convenient for tech rushing to Megastructures, as doing so probably will make you juuust hit 6 tier-4-techs to get there. They easily deal with lower class ships, which take far too much damage before they get in range, if they ever do. They're more consistent than the AI's cruiser builds, and they seem to match up against their battleships, maybe because they might be mixed and whirlwinds have equal range as artillery iirc.
Honestly Whirlwind missiles are kind of a count PD counter, that's kinda their deal. They just soak up a bunch of PD. Montu is definitely sleeping on them
Can you make a video about ship behaviors, like carriers, how does components effects ship position or firing ranges, and does scoutwing still better at taking down other strikecrafts ect, i am really confused on these mechanics?
So are Swarmer Missiles not king? I thought nothing beats them as they have 120 range so they kite everything but artillery which they out damage, ignore shields and don't get countered by PD as there are too many missiles In my PvP games they are THE meta, aside from just building them myself I don't know what beats that design please help : )
Yeah I dunno why Montu ignored Swarmer missiles, they are dope. I wish my starbases would equip them more often, I've had games where my defensive points had red lasers but I have whirlwind missiles researched and updating the starbase by rebuilding a module didn't do anything.
@@MasterElements I don't think that base starbase weapons ever really do anything, if you edited your defense platform designs and added them to your starbase then that would do something...
I know Montu always trashes neutron launchers after the update but I just love them on cruisers. Even in small numbers they have an absolutely insane damage output. Especially if the enemy is focusing on heavy battleship fleets
It's interesting how the video can present so much factual information and still paint a completely distorted view of the big picture. And that's even if we ignore how the main way of winning wars right now is by stacking more ship cost reduction than your opponent. 1. Cruisers actually are the most versatile ship class in the game, but versatility doesn't automatically make you the best. 2. Cruisers don't beat battleships. Torpedo cruisers beat battleships. It's a specific counter-design which in turn has it's own specific counter-designs. 3. Battleships are still the strongest mass produced ship class and will stomp anything that isn't a torpedo cruiser or frigate. And even frigates only make for a soft-counter (because they're slow & squishy) and can actually fail against carrier battleships. 4. Cruisers therefore are just a stop-gap on the way to battleships and should be treated as such. You don't need all the elaborate intricacies of optimal design, you just need something that will give you a quick spike in performance compared to destroyers. And Montu misses out on the best weapon for that purpose: whirlwind missiles. They require only 3 technologies to be researched (fusion missiles > swarmer missiles > whirlwind missiles), have better sustained damage than any medim weapon other than autocannons and unlike autocannons they have 120 range, which is double that of a medium laser. They fall off in usefulness when the game progresses to battleship artillery duels, but by that time they will have already served their purpose.
Also, the suggestion of countering disruptor cruisers by equipping your cruisers with Living Reactive Armor is hilarious, when you can instead counter them by just building battleships.
@@dragatus I think YOU are the one missing the entire point of this video. This is a CRUISER build guide... not a fleet/navy build guide for all ships. If he was going to include battleships, then yeah sure, you've got a point, but this video was entirely dedicated to cruisers. I will agree with you about whirlwind missiles though, not sure why he didn't mention them.
I can follow your reasoning and maths, and agree with it, but... What about mixed fleets? My current fleets are picket cruisers (distuptors, with torpedoes added if the enemy has larger ships), mixed with carrier/artillery/hybrid battleships at the back, and the role of the cruisers is to say "Shoot me! Shoot me!". So it doesn't matter that the battleships would take more damage from torpedoes, because they aren't getting shot at, but they are bringing a higher density of damage-per-fleet-point.
I use similar designs except my 'allrounder' is a carrier battleship design but its similar sans the torpedo slot and for my artillery cruiser I go full swarmer missiles because I am just not sold on neutron launchers. I usually have mixed fleets of two third disruptor one third torpedo cruisers. Fleets of all swarmer cruisers and fleets of all battleships similar to your allrounder cruiser design. The mixed cruiser fleets wreck faces up close while the swarmer cruisers and the battleships support from range. It works out more often than not.
Why not use the all-rounder with carrier combat computer - the point being that you don't even allow them to shoot at you (just "run away"). Of course it would need you to prioritize sub-light speed above all and use all modifiers you can get, but if you do it right, they won't be able to hurt you, while you slowly decimate them. As a classic says: "The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his range". :3
You have my vote for an anti-crisis build video.
Disruptor corvettes are amazing against Contingency. At least as long as you have enough damage coming elsewhere that you are winning the war of attrition.
And mine!
If you’re going against a x25 crisis, I find that the only safe bet is to throw a billion of the longest-range battleships you have at it, kill it before it kills you.
And my axe!
Yes please
General fleet compositions in early -> mid -> late game would also be nice.
I support this
Support this
if you saw the other videos on corvettes and destroyers. you should know, you switch to the next "tonnage" class as you unlock it. and build only that until cruisers show up. And as in this video explained, PvE, you go all rounders only and watch everything, other then crisis, cry as you keeel them xD
With that said, sure. i would also like to see a video on it, since a literally never saw Montu's "all rounder" class anywhere before. Hence, i'm certain he can come up with something i've never seen before xD
Oh this would be fantastic!
Yes please!
I love that with the ship rework, cruisers went from a meme ship to THE ship.
were they ever a meme ship...? I mean, sure, they wer enot max evasion destroyers or the evergreen battleship, but all laser cruiser would make you able to take on any enemy starbases with no losses, and they where pretty good with hangars and such. I don't think they were ever bad
they were just worse battleships. both destroyers and corvettes had benefits over battleships in certain areas, but cruisers were basically useless as soon as you unlocked battleships
@@leobastian_ nah, with now they had torpedo slot, they're definitely better at taking down battleships
@@AndrewTheUltraBoss99 Nobody used cruisers back in my days in 2.6. I just came back after i finally upgraded my pc to give this lategamelag game another try (so far so good with mit 7800x3d) and was like "what? Cruisers are usefull? the fuck happend?"
No. Cruiser was good against everything except crisis
I will say, Stellaris has hit very close to how modern navies since WW1 have operated with the ship classes. Corvettes very quickly became patrol boats/mine tenders and dont have a place in battle lines, frigates were specialty ships and are rarely seen. Cruisers are the most versatile class and in WW2 there were some that could go hold their own against a Battleship. Battleships are vulnerable without a support fleet, but deadly and terrifying when supported. The missile and aircraft era has changed the dynamic drastically but that is reflected well in Stellaris as well. Without PD you are asking to get slapped around
I really prefer this meta for that reason. Space combat realistically would not be anything like naval combat but most people are familiar with the basics of naval combat and most sci-fi media just grants that space combat is like naval combat. Ironically space combat in Stellaris used to be more realistic in the bad (but very funny) old days of naked corvettes.
What are good support fleets for battleships?
@zhadowmoon5811 I tend to like my BBs as giant missile boats, but I build my fleets to be fast and have lots of long range missiles keep everything at max range, and use DDs as my flak screen since usually only enemy missiles can reach me.
I don't use Frigates once I unlock Cruisers, and again they are usually just fast missile boats with some attack craft. My BBs are just bigger versions of them, and I usually build a lot more cruisers than BBs...
I almost use my BBs as shields for my fleet. I'd rather all the fire hit them since they can take it, and collectively my Cruisers do more damage than my BBs, and usually die much quicker. The BBs can take a massive beating especially if you have a lot of Point Defense DDs with them
@@IntusMortuum Basically the same. I like carriers but Missiles are generally the way to go in this meta. Frigates are really fragile and tend to take the brunt of casualties in the late game.
I had a small "Interior Security Force" of corvettes that would patrol solely to stop pirate bases popping up.
I'd love an anti-crisis build video; I've been trying to wrap my head around the shipbuilding system, but frankly on the level of play I do, it's really just the crises and Fallen Empires that it really matters for at the moment.
Ship building was so overwhelming when i started, videos like this have really make it easier to manage.
Best ship class? Either your first additional science ship or your first colony ship.
Don't recall as much excitement, hope and pain invested into any other ships in this game. Or any other loss being as painful and impactful.
*deep*
Now that I think of it you're actually right. Damn. Applies to real life maybe once u have alot of something the value goes down.
The Colossus, since its one of the rare ship types that can fix the late game lag
You gotta be real careful with your combat computer on anything with a firing arc because if they are always retreating to long range then they cant shoot with enemies approaching them
Firing arc doesn't really matter, since in stellaris ships have almost instant turn rates. Battleships can pivot on their axis a full 180 degrees instantly and take aim to shoot their x-slot weapon for example. Minimum range is the only problem, as for kiting, if your ship is faster and there is enough space, they can always retreat successfully to stay at range, turn to shoot instantly on a dime and have no issues.
@@luka188
They can, but if your not micro-managing... will they?
Or will they just keep pointing the gun away, as they retreat?
@@lostbutfreesoul as said before, if they are faster, they will outrun the enemy, turn, shoot, then turn again and keep running.
If they are slower, well, you're dead :)
@@lostbutfreesoul You can't micro manage fights in stellaris, the ships just behave as they do. You can see this behavior as you view the fight in game, or on some of the combats featured on Montu's channel for example.
@@lostbutfreesoul my guy there is no micromanaging space battles in stellaris except for the retreat button
So I have spent too much time delving into ship designs after the 3.9 rework, and especially after your SHIP WEAPONS TIER LIST video. I'd like to submit a 2-part Battleship design that I think does what the All-rounder Cruiser can do, but better.
The first is the Mothership class Battleship:
X-slot: Tachyon Lance
Hangers: 2x Driller Drones
M-slots: 2x Whirlwind Missiles
S-slots: 2x Small Missiles
The second is the Artillery class Battleship:
X-slot: Tachyon Lance
L slots: 4x Kinetic Artillery
The purpose here, as you'll quickly see, is to use the Artillery battleship to help remove the shields of your opponents while the Driller Drones eviscerate them. The Driller Drones are naturally good against smaller ships, doing ~35 avg dmg per tick with perfect accuracy and good tracking. The Tachyon Lances are good vs larger ships, taking them out at the start of the battle and doing increased damage vs armor. The Kinetic Artillery is good against Cruisers and Battleships, since as Montu says in this video, artillery tends to be better against them since they have low evasion.
I focus on the strike craft, running a ratio of around 7:3 Motherships to Artillery. If you want, you can also swap the Mothership X slot for another Driller Drone and more PD.
These two designs struggle a lot vs lots of Torpedos, because nothing you do with a battleship will ever prevent them from being weak to that. They require ships to screen for them still.
I made a full reddit post going over the numbers for these designs, plus their defensive and aux slots; as well as good designs for the early and late game if anyone is interested.
Can you link your reddit post? I can't really decide if carrier battleships are good or not.
one thing about art. cruiser is the range of the combat computer is determined by your weapon median range meaning that it is not your smallest weapon max range nor its your average range rather its your median range meaning if you fill the slots with 120 120 120 100 100 100 100 then your median is 100 still far away (this is MEDIAN RANGE) and this works only with pickit, Line and Artillery computers only. and thank you for a great video
Thanks for the video Montu. Side note, you should totally do the one system challenge again with the current update
No mention of the whirlwind/swarmer missile cruiser? I know they aren't great late game, but they're amazing in mid game.
I'm playing like 3.3 because i haven't had internet in my apartment for a year. Can you explain why I would ever want swarmer missiles as opposed to devastator torpedoes?
@@cosmictreason2242tj I are pretty op in the latest version of the game
@@cosmictreason2242 New version of Stellaris did a combat update. Devastator torpedoes have a max range of 30, Whirlwind missiles are 100 or 120. Missiles with Artillery combat computers create kiting behavior in the missile ships, so the torpedo ships never get into range to fire before taking so much missile damage they blow up or disengage.
@@cosmictreason2242they massively outrange any M or S slot weapon. Combined with afterburners, you can create cruisers that in the mid game can kite down other ships, like torpedo cruisers, without problems. And before Battleships, hardly any ship design will have L slot weapons, so you will nearly always have a range advantage
@@PaulthePhilosopher2 aha. So when i update i won't be able to send torps cross system
Ooh, a guide in the endgame crisis factions for modern Stellaris would be very nice to have!
Look at their ships, counter their shield/armor/hull balance. No guides needed lol.
Genuinely surprised the torpedo/disruptor cruiser didn't come up as a generalist. I find AI tends to build very little PD, so you don't have to worry about overwhelming them. Even if they do, sprinkle in a few swarmer/carrier battleships to work that side.
Torpedo cruisers with swarm missiles are my standard starbase-killers and leviathan-hunters. Im not sure exactly what the multipliers are for those, but they're certainly high enough to make a hell of a difference.
we need more videos like this. it was very informative for me
Like others have said in other posts whirlwind and quantum missile spam is massively effective when combined with artillery computer and triple afterburners. You outrange and kite anything other than battleships. With so many missiles being fired any PD the enemy has is overwhelmed and totally ineffective. The AI hardly ever build anything to counter these Cruisers. I also take increased range picks for my Admirals whenever available and it really helps. Using a single weapon type also helps with the research repeatables as well.
Struggles with fallen empires but they just sit around until you are ready to pluck them like a ripe cherry so can refit if needed.
As someone who has always loved making all-arounder cruisers whether they were good or not, this video brings warm feelings to my heart.
Aside from the artillery cruiser build, I have been using builds almost identical to these ever since I found Stellaris early last year.
Edit: Some slight variations from here on what I use:
1) Carrier Cruiser - swap the torpedo for neutron launcher if you get the Zroni Storm Caster and put up a few Zroni Bastion's in key choke points. Then reinforce them with all armor cruisers with the carrier build and neutron launchers instead. Use Carrier computer.
2) Carrier Cruiser 2 - all rounder variant - swap the torpedo bow for broad side bow and go with Whirlwind Missiles. Their max range is 120, before modifiers, which is almost equal to that of your hangars at 125. Their missiles will also help further swamp enemy point defense.
I would love a shipbuilding for beginners or how to build ships during the game as I usually just play with auto on
I would love to learn to strategize some more but it feels so overwhelming and I don’t know what works better for what situations
That was what I already had but this channel is where I learnt how to play, so you ve my like as always...
That disruptor cruiser/destroyer comboed with torpedo cruisers really saved my bacon the other day when 4 player federation fleet tried to subjugate me. Their fleet strength went from "overwhelming" to "equilivant" in record time.
Thank you for this video! A question: why aren't you using the artillery CC for the disruptor cruisers? Since the maximum weapons range is defined by the M disruptors (40), this CC will also try to stay always in range. And it doesn't grant you unnecessary tracking, but instead weapons range and fire rate.
Thanks for this and all the videos you make. But mostly this on, I needed this!!!
I absolutely love my cloaked missile cruiser build. Max speed, psionic cloak, psionic shields, swarmer/marauder missiles, kiting etc.
They may be real imperfect, but i like the idea do deal a first devastating blow from nowhere
P. S. I like how Montu turns the classes of cruisers into rock-paper-scissors.
Montu is totally sleeping on whirlwind missile cruisers, devastating in midgame, and very useful even going into late game.
Montu sleeps on a lot of things.
I like how particle launchers now are Star Trek torpedoes.
There is one build missing that I'd like to see, Carrier/Whirlwind missle cruiser without torpedos. It may not be as effective vs battleships, but how about other cruisers?
With the way the artillery computer range works, you can actually put on a few missiles with shorter range without it affecting the range your ship will stay at, at all. Most combat computers (those that say medium range) will take the median (not average), of your weapons' ranges, and stay at that one. The artillery computer takes the highest instead. So if you had a ship with a single range 120 weapon, and then full on disruptors, it would still sit at range 120.
Median is an average. Mean is what you’re conflating with average. There are 3 main measures of central tendency all of which can be called average which isn’t a mathematical term.
I love the TL;DR part, your videos are awesome, but sometimes pretty long so it's nice to have a quick recap
Almost sounds like a mixed fleet is the best idea, who knew.
Good theoretical explanation. I'm missing some empirical showcasing though.
There are two types of people I don’t trust in this game. People who play with xeno compatibility, and people who let the computer design their ships.
Sounds like those are the two you should trust because they are still new to the game and less likely to cause you any problems
Im learning :(
Im too lazy to design them
My favourite warship type since forever. Finally G and H slots, three hull sections. At long last some proper creativity.
A full update to all ship builds for pve and pvp would be awesome.
Oh very much yes would really appreciate a crisis walkthrough. I have very mixed results when fighting any crisis.
Literally just Rock Paper Scissors with Cruisers
I always have 6-8 cruiser designs by the time I get bored of the save file, a main battle cruiser, a light carriar, artillery, energy artillery, half carriar half battle carriar, autocannon cruiser, stealth cruiser, I might've missed 1 or 2
Aside from just having some of all in the fleet, is it really helpful to have that many variations?
Not to be that guy, but it's spelled "carrier"
@@cosmictreason2242 probably not but damage must be as efficient as possible
Love to see that Crisis ship guide video.
I need as many ship build guides as possible. I have no idea what I'm doing.
100% absolutely do the anti-crisis build video. I also second the request for an early/mid/late game build video for ships.
Great, great, great video!
I added a couple of these to my fleet designs right away.
I think from now on I am using the all around cruiser in place of Defensive platforms. They are more expensive, but they won't get auto destroyed if you lose the starbase.
For the all rounder torp computers are much better than artilery computers. The majorty of your damage will come from torps, then either missle or strike craft depending how long the fight goes on and shield hardening.
If you come up against torpedo's you will be in trouble though! As they will out torpedo your torpedoes.
That is less of an issue in single player or vs mixed fleets though ofc
Yeah talking about designs vs. crisis are something i would like to see, as that is the fights that can be hard (on x10). Especially the contingency.
Ideal ships should be a blend of different builds. The Jack of Trades should be the ideal view of implementation. And as for ships, it should be a mix of ships. You need some corvettes, some destroyers, some frigates, some cruisers, a couple of battleships, a few titans and a dreadnaught. That would be and should be the best built. If you go too far one way, you will leave yourself vulnerable in another way, either in how a single ship is built or how many if a certain class.
The answer for endgame at least for me has always bin focused arc emiters on empty hulls repeatables combined with building over starbase and fleet cap means you end up with like 40mil in fleet power of ships that instantly end the fight after one or two vollys before the other side even fires
Cruisers have always been the backbone and workhorse of my fleet
Been playing on Admiral difficulty and ive experienced that whirlwind missile+speed cruiser rushes against the ai are really powerful. Is that still the case or do they now know how to counter it?
The artillery crusier shoud add a swarm missle in the tail. Since you don't actually need that extra A slot for another afterburner, and swarm missle also have the range of 120.
Yes to the anti-crisis video. Yes please.
Crisis ships video!
Hey montu, i'm suggesting a high all-crisis guide video (for 10x and 25x). I feel like there's barely any guide content on all-crisis, and especially high/max all-crisis mechanics.
There's a channel on youtube, Tachyon lance, who has playthroughs where they beat a 50x contingency on grand admiral (In a game with 3 crisis back to back, the first one 25x crisis, each stronger than the last, with contingency being the last to spawn, spawning at around 50x lol).
Generally, with enough scaling tech, you can beat any crisis, it just depends how much time you give yourself to prepare (And how well you manage to scale your economy, or how long you bother before going on autopilot mode lol). For anything over 5x, short range weapons are bad as the crisis gets so much extra damage they will one shot your ships, so long range weapons and carriers tend to do really well against them. 25x crisis can even one shot battleships (Less likely with repeatables on your armor and shield health), so your best bet is to outrange them and use carriers with lots of repeatables.
For 5x and below crisis, disruptors work fine, even against contingency (Generally the most challenging crisis). Disruptor cruisers with 1 torpedo slot on the bow for extra punch against stations, otherwise they won't be able to defeat the purification hubs (Or other starbases the other crisis make).
I tested swarmer missiles as well, but they actually did worse than disruptors against 5x contingency with a similar amount of repeatables (Around 5 for both energy and explosive damage). To make them work, you need a big system with lots of space so the ships can kite and you need a lot of repeatables to have them deal enough damage, as they need to chew through the armor first and thus need to deal with almost 10 times the HP, but against stronger crisis the range is critical.
That one guy who made a response video to this reminded me of something I'd meant to ask. All the videos I see are mono-ship fleets. Do people not use mixed fleets with screening vessels anymore? I still tend to build like the old battleship meta, arty battleships with fast, screening ships.
Hi Montu! Your video was very helpful. What about battleships? I know they're not as strong as they used to be, but are they still useful in PVP?
I just got cruisers and level 2 torps and disruptors at year 35. Im ready to rock!
Yes please, a 'how to deal with the endgame crisis' video would be much appreciated.
I'm glad the post 3.6 ship series is continuing. I've been very lost with ship designs since the update, and my playstyle has been wholly altered because of it.
Are these builds still valid? Especially the torpedo cruiser and all around cruisers? I've just started playing and this video is really helpful, but want to make sure that the game hasn't changed too much since it was made!
Thanks!
In pve you can build literally whatever you want , but Ive would say battleships is most comfortable ships ( but if you dealing with strong crisis build small ships as meat shield for them )
Crisis guide would be great. Complicated ship combat is great.
I've been building something similar to the all-rounder, swapping out the torpedo bow for paired whirlwind missiles, and generally a more balanced weighting on defensive modules.
I usually have a mixed fleet, but for cruisers I exclusively use the torpedo build and its really the powerhouse of my fleets, I rarely lose a battle
So are battleships out of vogue now? I've been wondering what other ship classes are worth building. I barely see frigates get mentioned. Corvette spam is not the worst to counter anymore. Keep a ring of PD destroyers around cruisers and maybe battleships?
I really like making cruisers with swarm missiles & regular missiles, plus the artillery computer. Add some afterburners, armour hardening + regeneration, and you're good to go! The AI still seems to have a heck of a time dealing with them if you can stay at range.
Me: just started playing stelaris yesterday so used auto generate
Montu: you are the devil and make me sad
I've already been using the allrounder for a while against AI. They are just a dream to work with.
And then I build specialized fleets to deal with whatever crisis I get.
Thanks for this Montu. I started up a Necrophage Leader build yesterday and would up really snowballing in my playthrough (I tend to stagnate pretty hard in strategy games).
Long story short I managed to vassalize a neighbor, build up a massive economy, and then found an Ether Drake, which I killed and reanimated. I went from around 50K fleets (equivalent to most of the galaxy) to 120K overnight. I then launched a secret fealty war and took another vassal, but now the galaxy doesn’t want to even mess with me because I’m too strong.
I’m now considering a Crisis run to force the rest of the Galaxy to really fight me, so I need some strong ships to take down a Fallen Empire and then burn my way across the stars. Thanks for enabling my galactic genocide.
Endgame Crisis ship guide pls
A video for the crisis ships would be very appreciate sir
One of the reason why I do not actively play Stellaris anymore (I want to return but...I only see problem swaping each patch not problem solving), is that often just one ship class dominates everything (maybe when we are lucky two classes are useful within a patch), which in turn makes the game more boring.
Its a prime example of where balance would be important, just for the mere reason to make parts of a game (like other ship classes) not basically obsolete.
Never thought i would hear the word disrupter and powerful in the same sentence
Was expecting to see a Neutron Launcher on the all-rounder to be honest. Matches better with the range of the other components.
I've been manually building ships ever since I first started watching your vids a year ago.
However, I will now do all my future playthroughs with autobuild only, just to make you sad.
I do like how both battleships and cruiser have a place now. I just wish destroyers and corvetted had theri place too.
Did they take out torpedo bow/core? I’m not seeing them in the designer.
Just what ive been waiting for.
Please yes, video about dealing with the crisis thanks 😀
I think you should add like, the default "the game chooses desing" for not so advanced players for comparison to see the differrence. To make us/others bother with changing desings, than just keeping it as the game wants. (if youre not playing competitive, challenges, x25 crisis and so on...)
Always thought Artillery Combat Computers would keep your ships at the distance of your longest range weapon. So there should not be a problem with adding missiles (that would be great for repelling corvette swarms that try to rush you down)
I know they would be countered by point-defence, but in PvE I always run a mix of Whirlwind Missiles+Cruise Missiles with an Artillery computer, max afterburners (3). They consistently win even when facing a stronger fleet, but researching them also is very convenient for tech rushing to Megastructures, as doing so probably will make you juuust hit 6 tier-4-techs to get there.
They easily deal with lower class ships, which take far too much damage before they get in range, if they ever do. They're more consistent than the AI's cruiser builds, and they seem to match up against their battleships, maybe because they might be mixed and whirlwinds have equal range as artillery iirc.
Honestly Whirlwind missiles are kind of a count PD counter, that's kinda their deal. They just soak up a bunch of PD. Montu is definitely sleeping on them
Montu is slowly but steadly turning into Aspec
Disruptor Cruiser are so great you had to say it twice xD
This game needs saved designs to carry over, tired of putting together the same exactly ships every run
What's about full missiles (M and S slot) cruiser type ? there wasn't in the video …
Can you make a video about ship behaviors, like carriers, how does components effects ship position or firing ranges, and does scoutwing still better at taking down other strikecrafts ect, i am really confused on these mechanics?
So are Swarmer Missiles not king?
I thought nothing beats them as they have 120 range so they kite everything but artillery which they out damage, ignore shields and don't get countered by PD as there are too many missiles
In my PvP games they are THE meta, aside from just building them myself I don't know what beats that design please help : )
Swarmer missiles are good
Yeah I dunno why Montu ignored Swarmer missiles, they are dope. I wish my starbases would equip them more often, I've had games where my defensive points had red lasers but I have whirlwind missiles researched and updating the starbase by rebuilding a module didn't do anything.
@@MasterElements I don't think that base starbase weapons ever really do anything, if you edited your defense platform designs and added them to your starbase then that would do something...
@@kingacrisius I will try this, that you for the idea.
Yes please! We want the ships for crisis video!
I know Montu always trashes neutron launchers after the update but I just love them on cruisers. Even in small numbers they have an absolutely insane damage output. Especially if the enemy is focusing on heavy battleship fleets
This is the one part of stellaris I could never get good at
crazy thing is ive been making the all rounders for forever
Ouuu the crisis one sounds really interesting. Do it. Do it.
- Do it ! (starsky and hutch)
+1 for end game crisis video =)
Great video, ans you absolutely have my vote for a crisis video as well! :)
It's interesting how the video can present so much factual information and still paint a completely distorted view of the big picture. And that's even if we ignore how the main way of winning wars right now is by stacking more ship cost reduction than your opponent.
1. Cruisers actually are the most versatile ship class in the game, but versatility doesn't automatically make you the best.
2. Cruisers don't beat battleships. Torpedo cruisers beat battleships. It's a specific counter-design which in turn has it's own specific counter-designs.
3. Battleships are still the strongest mass produced ship class and will stomp anything that isn't a torpedo cruiser or frigate. And even frigates only make for a soft-counter (because they're slow & squishy) and can actually fail against carrier battleships.
4. Cruisers therefore are just a stop-gap on the way to battleships and should be treated as such. You don't need all the elaborate intricacies of optimal design, you just need something that will give you a quick spike in performance compared to destroyers. And Montu misses out on the best weapon for that purpose: whirlwind missiles. They require only 3 technologies to be researched (fusion missiles > swarmer missiles > whirlwind missiles), have better sustained damage than any medim weapon other than autocannons and unlike autocannons they have 120 range, which is double that of a medium laser. They fall off in usefulness when the game progresses to battleship artillery duels, but by that time they will have already served their purpose.
Also, the suggestion of countering disruptor cruisers by equipping your cruisers with Living Reactive Armor is hilarious, when you can instead counter them by just building battleships.
@@dragatus I think YOU are the one missing the entire point of this video. This is a CRUISER build guide... not a fleet/navy build guide for all ships. If he was going to include battleships, then yeah sure, you've got a point, but this video was entirely dedicated to cruisers. I will agree with you about whirlwind missiles though, not sure why he didn't mention them.
I can follow your reasoning and maths, and agree with it,
but...
What about mixed fleets?
My current fleets are picket cruisers (distuptors, with torpedoes added if the enemy has larger ships), mixed with carrier/artillery/hybrid battleships at the back,
and the role of the cruisers is to say "Shoot me! Shoot me!". So it doesn't matter that the battleships would take more damage from torpedoes, because they aren't getting shot at, but they are bringing a higher density of damage-per-fleet-point.
You will never see me without a fleet of one billion tachyonlances
Yes Crisis guide please!
The "if you leave auto-generate designs on" comment made me burst out laughing. Well done Montu
I use similar designs except my 'allrounder' is a carrier battleship design but its similar sans the torpedo slot and for my artillery cruiser I go full swarmer missiles because I am just not sold on neutron launchers.
I usually have mixed fleets of two third disruptor one third torpedo cruisers. Fleets of all swarmer cruisers and fleets of all battleships similar to your allrounder cruiser design. The mixed cruiser fleets wreck faces up close while the swarmer cruisers and the battleships support from range. It works out more often than not.
Not sure but would mixing carrier Battleships (to deal with Corvettes and Destroyers) alongside the Torpedo Cruiser kind of work really well
Why not use the all-rounder with carrier combat computer - the point being that you don't even allow them to shoot at you (just "run away"). Of course it would need you to prioritize sub-light speed above all and use all modifiers you can get, but if you do it right, they won't be able to hurt you, while you slowly decimate them. As a classic says: "The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his range". :3