Stellaris Defence Platforms
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2022
- Stellaris Defence Platform designs will be analysed to find out how well they perform. In this video we will look at a variety of defence platform builds to find out if they are useful or we should use them. This analysis will look at the effectiveness of defense platforms against corvettes, destroyers and battleships in detail to find out if they are worth it.
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I always thought defense platforms were underrated, but I didn't know that the neutron launcher platforms outperformed the carrier platforms by such a large degree. With this newfound knowledge my borders shall be inpenetrable!
I think also the Neutron-Plats are outperforming the Hangars (directlly.... I mean numbers are stil right) but I think their usage is different... like having only a few hangars for small ships are breaking the remnants of the first shooting wave... I mean as soon as someone sees your neutronplatform defense it is only a matter of years and they might get crushed by corvettes or destroyers. So you might need at least some smol-weapon-bois at your border... or a antismallship-fleet nearby.
@@Cybermarth Lately I have blended Neutron platforms and Carrier platforms. About 4:1. This might make me rethink things. Especially if you can place your chokepoint defense where there are a planet or three to ring. Simply unfair...
@@Cybermarth That's a good point but also I don't really play multiplayer, I don't think the ai are smart enough to play that way but maybe it's still worth it to have 50/50 launchers/hangers since the ai likes having fleets with every ship
They were pretty underrated until Overlord gave them some TLC. Now they actually have a purpose!
@@TheLoneTerran Interesting, I didn't start playing until Overlord so I missed the early drama. :) Now I have a few hundred hours in. lol
I only play PvE and I got to say it's impressive how fast people do things. I hear "should have by 20-30 years" and 30 years in I'm still in a joke navy lol.
They play with .75 cost tech also.
@@jct0064 never thought about that, mines always set at 1.25, guess that explains a few things lol.
I mean lower tech costs means stuff like more resources earlier, which can be reinvested into even more tech and/or more ships (that also get more resource efficient with more tech)
So them being that much faster on 0,75 vs 1,25 techs makes sense to me.
Don't rely on your power number show by your game, after designing my own ships I was able to take down armies with double points than mine because I was more more effective
You are not alone commander.
Probably the hardest part of spending the alloys on Defense Platforms vs ships comes from prediction of course. If you know that you'll be in a defensive war, you really have to start building them ASAP, since DP's can **only** be built 1 at a time, unlike ships which can be assembled 6 at a time from multiple stations across your empire. The time it takes to build them up can make investing in them feel not worth it, but these results are honestly astounding.
If you time it correctly you can just spam like 50 or so as soon as they come in the system
They need to link DP to shipyard count. If you have at least 1 shipyard at the Starbase, you should be able to build 2 DP simultaneously
@@ScorpioneOrzion you high?
DP take 60 days to build each. Massing just 12 in the early game would take you close to 2 years
That being said, you can build them with ridiculous speed.
@@sunso1991 or even better link it to gun/hanger count.
A note on Hangar platforms: don't forget, you are able to build platforms on a non-upgraded outpost. While the hangars aren't really that great by themselves against fleets, I have found them to be very handy. Plonk one down near each station along a trade route, and they can help deal with piracy :)
I DID NOT KNOW THIS THANK YOU
That's a great tip man, I haven't thought about suppressing piracy this way and it seems quite smart
@@yaroslavstarchenko4358 Hope it works for you. Set your policies to scan debris for salvage, and let the free alloys flow!
You have singlehandedly saved my starbase capacity thank you so much
🤯 underrated comment. Thank you!
ive always been a staunch believer in defense platforms.
I think the question with defensive platforms shouldn't be "Can they win against X with equal resources?" but rather "What ratio of resource advantage can you hold against?". It should be a given that a static defence will win a straight-up brawl of equal resources.
Also "To what degree to you need to pre-empt a war with building these?" is an important question.
In my experience the little bit of extra firepower they give against AI seems to help especially when they're used in large numbers, but replacing them is highly taxing on your alloys. They also pretty much all die everytime an enemy takes out your starbase. In my opinion their best use is to deter attacks from the AI and to force them to use other routes since they won't attack a system that they don't think they can handle with their fleet.
Well, my testing shows they are a better investment with your alloys than other ship types. Yes the ui for building defence platforms is worsr than the fleet manager, but they offer a better bang for your buck than regular ships. Tbis means if you can guarantee an engagement, build platforms before spending your remaining resources on ships.
@@MontuPlays the testing may show which one is better in a fair fight, but the ai will stack fleets until it has an overwhelming advantage and then take the starbase easily. If you have to recapture and rebuild it every time it can get costly.
@@MontuPlays Except defense platforms can't move, which means they can only defend one system, whereas a fleet can move to where ever it's needed. In the early game, spending all of your alloys to full stack platforms on your chokepoints is going to backfire when the enemy takes 1 of your (we'll just say for example) 4 chokepoints, and then ignores the others, which means all of the alloys we spent in those other systems were wasted. In the mid-late game, when we have more flexible spending on alloys, defense platforms can't be built in high enough numbers to stop a dedicated push, making them also a not as good choice.
@@MontuPlays A better test might be to see which of these configurations does the most damage to a superior fleet (allowing for a better chance at victory for a reinforcing fleet) or which config stalls an invading force (allowing time for you to react).
@@LordSevarg That's assuming that you don't also have a fleet, which you absolutely need in conjunction with defense platforms. This isn't a video determining which is better: fleets or platforms, it's if you even want to build t hem in the first place. Defense platforms are for chokepoints and deterrence, yes, but your main offensive tool will be your fleets. Properly positioning them as well as your defense platforms is the key to successfully defending against enemy fleets.
What about hangars vs. corvettes?
Every empire gets Scout Wings from the start of the game and can build defense platforms with them, no techs required.
I imagine they'd wipe the floor. Strike craft have a huge range and engagement distance. They also have high tracking, shield penetration, and can defend against missiles. While they do take time to deploy and destroy, corvettes can only fire a short distance.
I dunno why he didn't make that test. I thought it was common knowledge that for the first 20-30 years platforms with hangars are the way to ward off enemy aggresion. The amount of value they generate is crazy.
Probably, but as we can see high evasion fleets don't do well against large slot platforms anyways, so neutrons still do just as well.
@@raptorofwar4415 Neutrons at year 10-20?
im a weirdo i do dif platforms usually 3
one is guns
one double hangars
the last is swarm missiles and torpedos
the fighters and artillery platforms are just supplements to the main ones given l slot weps and artillery well to chip away at range and the fighters help w anything that closes the gap
its the same way i setup my fleets
cruisers are just artillery boats w double torpedos and swarmers and my battleships are mostly L/x slot snipers w a few carrier ones which help deal w anything that my corvette swarm and long range weps dont chew up
alternatively if i wanna meme its hangar torpedo/missile and then cloud lightning and disruptor platforms because lol F shields
Now I haven't tested them, but I was under the impression that Scout Wings had no offensive capability, only acting to shoot down other SC and missiles.
Welcome back. Heres hoping to more variety in the future regarding defensive stations. Unironically "Ion Cannons" not actually disabling ships but just outright blowing them up instead, would like to see them able to provide an Aoe sort of ion effect(maybe help counter death fleet stacks, if all the ships are so bunched together could zap a whole group of fleets with one hit)
I think it’s a great idea , like the ion cannons is strong enough to pierce multiple ship
So a chain lightning doomsday that on each bounce, bounces to the target in range with the highest hitpoints?
@@drac8504 Could put all weapons on CD in an affected area or something
Eventhough they're called Ion cannons, they have a Perdition beam mounted instead... 🤣
I would love to see some sort of boarding action mechanic added. If you had a marine squad slotted in, there could be a random roll where you might successfully capture an enemy ship after you wear its shields down or something. It would be kind of cool to see a large fleet with many mixed species ships.
One of the best tactical things from defensive platforms is that if the enemy succesfully takes the system he will suffer more loses than you when retaking it back without those platforms, since platforms arent like star base modules that will remain on the star base when captured
Though if, for some reason, the base itself is disabled first the platforms will switch sides. It's very silly.
But that also let me get fallen empire defensive platforms once, which was siiiiiiick. Sadly I couldn't build any more of them.
There was a mod a while back that made it so that defense platforms were not destroyed, merely disabled like their starbase. This was before they had all the buffs they do now but it still made things painful to retake as you can imagine, only ran one game with that before getting rid of it.
@@ericrollin2331 That mod is still around. I play with it on occasion when I run games like gigastructural engineering where the galaxies powerlevel is a lot higher.
I don't get the thinking here... so by being able to deal damage to you, after HE took it, that's somehow the "best" thing???
If you have a crisis war or similar, those starbases are _destroyed._ That's *much* better for you as a player if you're on the recieving end, and will never get it back. Or else you'd have yet another roadblock to get around once the enemy took it. So I don't get the point...
You mean basically that it's good the enemy won't recieve all the defensive platforms as well when he captures the starbase??? I agree, but that seems kind of obvious...
@@Grahckheuhl If you get a piece of technology that you don't have the ability to make yourself, you should be able to reverse engineer it and gain the technology for yourself. I still don't know why that's not a thing.
Funny thing about defense platforms is that if your border is well defended with platforms and starbases early game it can prevent wars with aggressive neighbors.
Is this actually currently true? I've found the opposite in my runs, that since defense platforms don't count towards overall fleet power, they don't act as any deterrence for war. Once war is declared, a well fortified border will keep enemies from engaging and they'll just hide away in their empire until attrition reaches 100%, but I haven't noticed platforms preventing declarations of war in the first place
The visual closeups of the matchups in action were amazing. Thanks for going through the effort of capturing that during testing!
The recent buffs to defense platforms really makes them much better nowadays, which I'm glad about. They're great for bolstering your defenses without using naval capacity and make nice fleet support when defending an important system too.
Omg, just yesterday I was looking for a video about defence platforms from you, and here you are! Thank you!
Wow, it's crazy how someone just taking the time to test something can completely flip what is accepted knowledge. Pretty much everything I've read over the years says always build ships over defense platforms, and if you do use them go strike craft. Given me some ideas!
That's because a recent patch buffed defence platforms
Ships also move and find the enemy. Platforms don't move. Ships can win you the war by going over the border and attacking the enemy while platforms can stop you from losing it.
This is how it should work in every game: defence should always be more cost effective than offence or else there is never a reason to build defence but as others have pointed out, there are many drawbacks to full defence such as your ships can attack or defend, can claim you new territory as well as protect yours and ships can't be circumvented like defence platforms can.
It's always good to have your back door well-defended whilst you start a ruckus at the front door. ^^
I completely don't get why people hate defense platforms so much. Placed at good chocke-points it can be extremely effective.
@@thomaskositzki9424 Because they cost you alloys and energy and don't do anything most of the time. And you still need a fleet anyway.
I have had defensive platforms come in clutch a few times recently. Building new platforms while in combat has helped me hold the line against AI attacks. Station was almost dead, but managed to complete a new defensive platform in time to hold on long enough for my fleet to arrive. I imagined a desperate race against time to finish the platform in time to save their own lives,
Bastion star citadels with max platforms combined with multiple orbital rings in the system likewise either max platforms means you can have a monstrously well defended system without having to use any ships. Orbital rings are one of the best additions to the game in a long time.
such a system can have well over 1 million fleet strength. realistically though planets are scattered so even in a Worm system you probably only need 3 BS fleets of equal tech to take it out without horrendous losses.
A Bastion station witih a well-defended fortress planet can give you a lot of time to respond if you've got a chance of winning a defensive war, not to mention extra fleet power when it's idle. With interdiction, they have to break the planet before going anywhere. They just take time to cultivate, which can be a problem if you don't have a good economic base to work with.
Have done this in the L cluster initial system before. 4 planets all with rings, + habitat spam plus stormcaster citadel full of ancient ramparts and plataforms.
It was utterly ridiculous
So doing this lol come at me crisis lol
Great stuff as always Montu! Thank you for your scientific approach to this.
Montu bringing the receipts! It’s videos like this that make you great!
Waited a long time for this video. Thank you very much
as an exploit, in the middle of the fight, the platform can be upgraded. after the seconds of upgrading, the shields, armor, and hull are back to full. not major, but it helps in some niche cases.
Not a practical application unless early game in general, but useful against pirates and stray AI "scout" fleets in systems without a starbase. You can build platforms without a starbase.
Wow thanks for the great video, I’m new to the game and I was under utilizing defensive platforms
No Step Back we shall stand here and only here my friend. Glad your back!!
So interesting - the insight about Ion Cannons was great. I was wondering if they are something you should span, mix in or just not build at all. Mixing one it to tag the enemy makes a lot of sense. Great video!
I always mix one in per 8-10 defense platforms. It's not to "tag" the enemy but to deal with heavier ships and because it has longer range.
Many defense platform weapons will never fire a shot, depending on what you face...
Thank you for all your efforts! Time for an updated version of this video I think what with the ship/weapons rework. 🙂
Love vids like this. Gonna try to give defensive platforms some love in my next playthrough
I play on the console version. And your videos have really helped me out on the mechanics of the game, very much appreciated.
Since I got the game (for the first lockdown, these 18 hours-long sessions discovering Stellaris with the bros scattered at the four corners of the country were an absolute blast!), I've kept using neutrons on platforms and hangars in starbases, following a very Ligne Maginot-esque defense doctrine, it's pretty much a tradition now! It has served me well until now and seeing your results, will keep doing so for a good while. Stellar study on your part, as usual Montu!
I have experianced the loss when useing hanger platforms myself where a station that had WAAAY higher numbers lost to a smaler fleet do to the amount of shots they could get of before the inteseptors got to the fleet... this vid has been mega informative and helpfull :D
Subbed and liked. Havn't played Stellaris in a year or so and wanting to get back into it i have now been binge watching your videos instead of playing haha. Anyway keep up the content
It’s good to have you back!
Thanks man for covering these, always enjoyed going full turtle and watching my enemies break against them.
Welcome back. You were missed. I hope your vacation was good.
I've always played a turtle style and have found that platforms do extremely well against the AI. I tend to mix them up, having a few of all types which always did well. Even point defense systems have a p[lace to stop incoming missiles, fighters and corvettes.
Im glad that im validated in using defence platforms :D I often see them get wiped out but generally speaking that happens against far bigger fleets. And often times they will make the enemy pay for it in return making the job easier for my fleet to mup up.
Something I dident see you mention is that some of the upgrades on bastions can greatly help defence platforms. Things like lowering enemy shields and boosting their offensive stats and such can make a massive difference in s syem that you setup for defensive purposes.
Your videos are very well done ty
7:00 for the Neutron Launcher Defence Platforms - & - probably most ships late-game... the precognitive computer doesn't do much as it just increases tracking which is kind of useless unless you're fighting Evasion Destroyer or Corvette fleets.
So it's always best with Sapient & to include a more utilitarian module to the 'Auxilliary Slots' eh!
Amazing results! It got me thinking that if I'm going to be investing in platforms, there should really be a fleet tab equivalent for them, just to make it less of a hassle to rebuild your defenses after an engagement. Something that would let you design a platform comp assigned to a starbase, then simply hit a reinforcement button to automatically start building the platforms currently missing, just like you can do with fleets. That'd be a good qol addition, I think
I love your videos and the way you analyze things. I do wish you would include a section, maybe just a comment or two, to talk about dealing with AI opponents more. You often focus on what works against other players that use late game meta builds, but not what would work against generic AI mixed fleets.
Love you man! Thanks!
Unfortunately the way to deal with mixed fleets AI's or other player's is to run Meta fleets. In current state of the game a mixed fleet is basically worse fleet than meta fleet. Issue is that neutron launchers will remove all cruisers and battleships from the mixed fleet before other fleet can do anything leaving only highest evasion ships alive meaning that in reality the mixed fleet could be considered to only consist of the surviving high(er) evasion ships which is inadequate to defeat the neutron launcher fleet since BS will get lucky hit eventually removing also those evasive ships from combat
welcome back space lizard! no joke other day my terminal egress bastion full of defensive platforms defeated a 540k pretoryn fleet after a few repeatables (hull and damage). Damage 10% repeatable it's great, when I get tech rolls that are not that great I try to pick one of the defensive ones.
Great video!
I can't believe Papa Montu dishing out high quality presentation and experiments while still being under 100k subs, seriously underrated
I’ve started using defensive platforms in the early game. I use to wait till the late game but honestly you get the second upgrade for the starbase early and it should defend your empire from most other empires. Also all I use is the hangar bay defensive platforms
Wow, I was not expecting this result. I've almost always avoided DP due to their lack of evasion and retreat but this video completely proved me wrong.
I took your advice to build them more and it saved my game. The marauders spawned 4 systems away from my capital on the outer rim. I built defense platforms on my entrance points to my empire. And the great khan actually didn’t attack me at all! He was unwilling to pick a fight against my star fortresses. So I was able to take my time destroying him while he attacked my weaker neighbors and never strayed into my territory at all!
Welcome back from vacation, and thanks for the video. I have come to love the defense platforms, but as you noted the ranges are the limiters
Thanks, its good to be back! The ranges? Not sure if you mean the defense platform cap on a starbase?
@@MontuPlays Well, for a while I was using NCS2, and that shatters that cap... LOL. But I was thinking the problem of weapons range. Shorter ranged weapons allows fleets to pass through a system unhindered, and you can with care pick off defense fleets in detail outside the range of the platforms. Neutron Launchers are indeed killer on platforms.
Don't forget that you can build defense platforms around any Starbase, including basic ones, which let's you set them up to cause attrition to invading fleets
Or just to combat piracy
Some missed details.
Defense platforms build *fast* and will produce *even when the starbase is under attack*.
I cannot, cannot, CANNOT stress the value of this enough. If you have a defensive starbase, you do not need to have the defense platforms pre-emptively, and can instead queue building them while the enemy is on approach from a star or two out, while sending your fleet in. This allows you to 'trap' the AI very easily by keeping a fleet out of system but ready to jump in, and setting defense platforms to build while they're on approach, as the AI will engage into a fight that progressively gets more unwinnable for them. It also conserves your alloys, as you don't build "unused" defense platforms, and instead build ships.
Longer fights are *better* for defense platforms. Going hand in hand with the fact you can build defense platforms in combat, you can also replace defense platforms in combat. A fully stacked defensive starbase can easily rebuild a LOT of defense platforms.
Carriers with 1x Ion Cannon is the best setup, not Neutron Launchers. While it is *absolutely* true that the Neutron Launchers will get more kills for only marginally more losses, Neutron Launcher defensive platforms are more expensive to build, which require you set resources aside ahead of time. As previously stated, defense platforms are built EXTREMELY fast. Advanced Strike Craft are *significantly* cheaper per unit, and take the same losses. While you are indeed killing less, you also are setting aside less alloys. Defense platforms do not travel, and cannot be scrapped for a refund, so any alloys spent on those defense platforms are committed to that specific system. The alloys you save can be committed to either more ships, or other defense platforms elsewhere.
It is more important strategically for your defense platforms to win at the least cost (both in terms of alloys spent, and in terms of alloys lost) than for them to win cost effectively, as you do not collect alloys from kills, and a player will not throw their fleet at a starbase they cannot break if they are aware they cannot break it, regardless of how many ships would survive the loss.
Carrier platforms are around 10% cheaper, the difference is marginal. I really can't stress enough, there is never really a situation to use them over NL due to the massivw tracking the platform combat computer gives you.
Also, never expect a starbase to win the engagement alone against multiple fleets (of greater economic cost). As mentioned in the video, use your other alloys after building up a defensive starbase to build fleets to support it
@@MontuPlays The difference is far from marginal over time. Alloys committed to a defense platform are alloys that will only do anything at all if that specific starbase is attacked. As your own example shows, defense platforms can get up over 50 on a single starbase, before we start talking about bulwark stacking. 10% cheaper across 50 defense platforms, is a not insignificant amount of savings, and you are only sacrificing killing power, not holding power.
The real difference though is in when and how you apply defense platform construction. If you are pre-building defense platforms well in advance, neutron launchers are superior, as while you are spending more, you are also getting more kill value per alloy spent. However, prebuilding defense platforms is often a very bad idea, as every alloy spent on defense platforms is an alloy spent on something that both cannot be used to attack, and cannot defend multiple systems. Unless you are in a corner with only one hyperlane out (itself a bad situation) you would need to spend multiple times the cost of an equivalent power fleet to secure all possible avenues of attack.
A far more efficient approach is to take advantage of the rapid build speed of defense platforms and mass deploy them in response to a threat. Battleships are extremely slow. Titans make them even slower. Defense platforms build exceedingly fast and will continue to build even after combat starts.
Hangars generate more holding power per alloy spent (with an accompanying ion cannon, which IS worth the prebuild for the engagement range alone). This means you need to reserve less alloys per hangar built. They also do better in longer engagements, such as those caused by the platforms still being under construction as combat starts. As strike craft continue to amass over the course of a fight unless destroyed, they are more reliable over extremely extended combats where, for example, your fleets are arriving in a staggered order due to distances, and your defense platforms are still being constructed. Or a juggernaut is itself adding more ships to the mix.
More holding power per alloy spent means you are committing less resources to something that cannot be used for any other purpose besides the defense of that individual star. It also means you can be more flexible with your alloys, holding them in reserve to build defense platforms as needed, while also having a larger fleet.
If the enemy goes around your defensive starbase, your defensive starbase's value is nothing more than the time the enemy spent going around it. Holding defense platform construction until you can be confident which empire will attack you, and fortifyng in response to that allows you to invest those alloys into more warships, and build with more precision. At the cost of not wanting to spend as much.
Remember, the Maginot Line worked right up until the germans went around it.
@@MontuPlays Gonna make it its own comment. Stick a defensive fleet of evasion destroyers or even corvettes in, and then strip the hangar modules of their defenses. Then equal resources it with the hangar modules being just hangars and no shields/armor, and make sure the destroyers get to combat range before the enemy fleet gets to the range where they can shell the defense platforms. Add in one Ion Cannon, and maximize range and reduce enemy sublight speed and watch the fireworks.
Since the enemy isn't shooting your *very cheap* hangars, they should punch very far above their weightclass.
I used to stack up hangars on defense platforms and they always seemed to dissapoint, thanks for the info, I'll be sure to build some more defense platforms as I prefer playing pretty passively!
Thank u for the guide, defense platform is very good against early wars. Provided You have the chokepoint advantage, making Your enemies only go through that system. I usually do 2 with strike crafts, 2 shield stripper, and 4 lasers. Its a good loadout for early game.
This is good news for my favorite type of playstyle.
Inward Perfection!
I have always loved building defense platforms and to make it easier in late game I even make the Strategic Coordination Center and Mega Shipyard my first megastructures. Especially the SCC giving you extra sublight speed for offense and more platforms and stations for defense. Once I get that up, any game against the AI is usually a done deal.
If you ever do a follow up to this, I’d be curious to see how L slot defense platforms with kinetic artillery weapons would fare by comparison, and how different mixes of hangers + NLs + hangers compare.
I’ve always baselessly mixed DPs in a given system with dedicated kinetic artillery, NLs, hangers, missile/torp platforms, etc. Would have assumed that the NLs would benefit from having some kinetic artillery backup, or even some dedicated M or S slot platforms with higher tracking mixed in
My personnal citadel defence build is : 3 ion cannons, and a lot of defences platform with 1 kinetic battery and 1 Neutron launcher
neutron launcher on an all armor platform in a pulsar system has been really nice, especially if you can get one at a chokepoint, especially against AI.
Love platforms in the early game. Try to find a nice choke point quickly build a starbase and then put in platforms to hold it. Usually works well even with marauders on the doorstep.
Fascinating data!
Man i was getting worried that montu was not going to make more videos. Been so long
I use defensive platforms to counter piracy on trade routes as you don't need star base to build them. You can build a defensive platform on your basic claim station (without any upgrade) and so you can reinforce all your systems without using station limit poll, it might be as well some surprise for someone who use to play only on galaxy view and won't zoom in to see that besides your fleet there is also 'fleet' of platforms. It's also great alloy sink if you produce too much at the moment. Ion also scale quite well with numbers, like in systems with many orbital rings and in perfect situation, a fleet that can hold enemies for a little longer and take some damage giving ion platform 2-3 more shoots.
I like using hangers on the starbase itself, then use a few ion cannons combined with a ton of large platforms. Works pretty well through the game
On my last game i decided to fortify the L cluster while turning it into my main production place too with a mega shipyard. Put a ring on the planet closest to the station on the blackhole system, filled it with missiles and hangars. The Unbidden (5x strength) really tried to take that place with no success and small losses on my end, but damn, building around 100 platforms is expensive and time consuming
@MontuPlays thank you for these videos! As a new player appreciate the effort put on the information. Quick question, do you know any good mods that can be used and are updated and that do not affect trophies?
The big reason everyone said double hangar platforms was because of a bug where they'd keep fighting and producing till the station fell, so their dmg wouldn't drop off as it took losses. This is now fixed.
that's really interesting. I liked the Ion cannons because they have such long range. but maybe it is time to reevaluate that position. I never subscribed to the notion that Defence platforms were useless.
Terminal egress or the main L-gate hub is really good to make a huge defensive position with the nanite worlds and orbital platforms . It pretty much makes the system untakeable
I have found an amazing use for hangar platforms. They are perfect for defending a primitive species under observation from rogue asteroids. Right at the start of every run, I set up one platform for empire defense and one for asteroid defense. Don't waste the alloys building the hangar platforms as soon as you have an observation post up, since the asteroid event isn't guaranteed, but three of them on the basic outpost make short work of an asteroid should one appear. Their 60-day base construction time means that you can have all three up long before the asteroid gets close to the planet. This way you don't have to split off a fleet and race the clock to save the savages and your precious insight progress, and you also don't have to burn a starbase slot on primitive systems unless they lie on a chokepoint and you already have a defensive plan in place there.
Crazy fact: Defense Platforms can be built on regular non-upgraded Outposts.... years of playing and I literally just found this out.
Can help with a pesky neighbor, or piracy suppression, especially early to mid game, while keeping you under your Starbase cap
As others have commented, I'm surprised you didn't compare corvettes vs scout wings and destroyers vs T2 strike craft. There was also no show in how such would perform vs mid game torpedo spam. I do have to wonder if it may perhaps be a presentation of bias against hanger slots use on your part.
Interesting in the past I've done a mix of artillery defensive platforms, nuetron launchers, and hanger defensive platforms with 5 artillery to 1 hanger. Of course that was before they made changes and the strikecraft would attack both enemy fighters and incoming missiles.
Sooooo helpful..tks
With large number of options and even bonuses for defense, I’d say playing defensively in this current version can be fun. Especially once you throw in the defense tradition and maybe even the one perk that improves star base defense and platform limit.
early game I like using disrupter platform, but later game I like using a mix of artillery mainly neutron launchers with a few kinetics thrown in for good measure along with a few hanger stations. aside from disruptors early game I sometime opt for autocannons and plasma launcher shorter range but they can bring the "hurt"
i tend to put 2 - 4 ion cannons on my citadel/orbital rings (rank 3) and then fill the rest of my platform slots up with a mix of large and hanger platforms and take 2 of each gun, missle, and hanger on the citadel (and just gun/missle on the orbital rings).. giving a good mix of long range, faster firing, and high damage.
I use mostly Neutron Launchers on my DPs but I also add in a few Kinetic Artillery to help bring down the enemy shields, since NL's are a little weak against shields. I have not done a full test though.
wow that comparison between neutrons and hangers is staggering
I needed to see this, I was banking on Hangar Platforms all the time :(
I usually build defense platforms at choke points or key systems and have a fleet nearby if support is required. I didn't realize that I could create defense platforms that could repel sizable attacks all on their own.
How much has this changed since the weapon rework? This is one of the great need-to-know videos.
I think Sector Leaders should have planetary benefits, but also perhaps some benefits for starbases and defence platforms.
Always loved the platforms & just the turtle-concept in general even if it weren't very good overall.
But one way to really push organising things a little further could be to have leaders of Sectors give base bonuses based upon LEVEL alone - maybe don't muddle up the traits too much... and give that extra 2-5% bonus per level here and there (e.g. on damage, upkeep, health and so on).
Could mean sending a level 7 or 8 leader to a frontier sector, despite him giving a boost to your home planets.
Well organics presidents and emperors do have Starbase bonuses. Like 25% faster DP build, cost reduction and such.
But playing democratic empire is such a chore. I prefer hive mind or robot empire
I've always loved the turtle and play tall style over aggressive paint the map builds, so I've been a fan of platforms and want to use them to maximum effect. Thanks for doing the work to get optimized builds, I'll try them out in a game!
There are still some sticky points to mention tho: stations have a max cap on defense platforms, so if economy is not a factor then an attacker can send as many fleets as they want and eventually a max upgraded fort will cave. In a similar vein, good luck telling endgame crisis to send equivalent number of alloys to attack your bases lol! And lastly by the endgame your choke points will be less of a factor when people can jump last them (unless you fort every system)
You can fort every system. Like 15 platforms with no starbase, just an outpost. After jumping they have huge combat penalties. So even if they beat the platforms, they take casualties and if the next system has 15 too then more tenderizing.
@@nobodynothing282 That's smart. Never considered that.
I got real lucky with a border system that had a habitable world near the edge where all enemy ships had to warp in when approaching my empire. Once I got an orbital ring around the planet I decked it out with defense structures and a supercomputer so I can maximize the normal defense platforms around it (also made the planet itself a fortress world). For the actual Citadel I made it just full of ion cannons so any enemy fleet would be forced immediately into engagement with the nearby defense platforms while the citadel ion cannons sniped their ships. It was the perfect killzone and I just kept upgrading it with stragetic command center megastructure which added more cap to the defense platforms and the unyielding ascension tree. Not even awakened empire fleets could get through
The benefit with defense platforms is primarily in the early game. In the late game they are still useful for delaying the enemy offensive in order for you to move in your defensive fleets.
In my latest playthrough i would run stations with a defense grid supercomputer so I go up to Luke 62 platforms. I did 4 ion cannons, then the rest was half neutron launchers and half carriers. Worked really well against the ai but I don’t really play against players.
Thank you for the video. The only thing i am missing here is what happens if you are a Overlord with a bulwark subject.
i usualy pack my inhabited worlds with defense platforms after upgrading the stations to citadels.
never had anything that wasnt an awakened empire or crisis get to my planets that way and i could reinforce the defense by building ships right then and there.
it helps that star bases can build ships and platforms simultaniously.
Especially usefull for hive minds were you have acsess to solar panels and unyielding is a great early pick.
Oh wow. I had tried defense platforms once and then completely wrote them off. This is good to know. Reduces the tech needs for being able to defend oneself a lot too. Don't need the big ships, just the big weapons, which is interesting.
Now I'm wondering if the power projection influence gain is helped by defense platforms, that would make building them up pretty early almost a no brainer.
AHAHAAHA.
Came back to this video to get a feel for Ion Cannons, should I build them, how many, for my game that is probably about to head south. I only have 2 chokepoints...well three but one is next to the other and I'm not too worried about that lane.
Halfway through I was thinking "Damn Montu, what a shame the Custodian team so quickly invalidated so many videos!" then I realized...said videos probably are the BIGGEST reason for the 3.6 combat rework!
The design I go with for all my citadels is 6 hanger starbase modules, 1 ion cannon, and all my defense platforms have two large slots with neutron launchers and possibly kinetic artillery. I'm not married to the kinetic artillery and could just go all neutron launchers, but I do currently use them.
Didn't know this thanks
I hope it helped
I'd like to see you update this for 3.6+, Montu.
Thank you for doing the painful research. I always thought the platforms were too fragile, but now I'll use them. Especially when resources aren't an issue.
I use DP and ion cannons as a late game alloy sink or if I'm in a lot of trouble but have a good choke point. Carrier DP are only the best until Neutron launchers and kinetic artillery are available because there's a massive difference in initial damage.
as a player that expands slowly and sets up huge static lines in only key areas like choke points i can say they are worth it if they are designed right also if combined with a maxed starbase with the upgrades that boost defense of the system and a targeting computer they can be very good and will most times hold long enough to get a fleet to the system
One thing people tend to skip over is the station Target Uplink Computer building.
+50% range off the bat for the station AND platforms, means neutron launcher platforms will almost always strike first except under very specific scenarios.
Add in a juggernaut with range aura and you can get +90%+ range on platforms, pretty much even in terminal ingress your platforms will hit ships as soon as they materialize.
If you take repeatable techs into account (+10% platform damage, +5% energy damage) those Neutron launchers on platforms will rapidly start destroying even battleships in one hit.
I’ve started using 4 different defense platforms on my bases, neutron launchers, some with swarmer missiles, hangar, and point defense
I'm curious how this holds up to the current combat balance, now that Neutrino Launchers are Torpedo slot weapons and have a minimum range.
Thanks for this very informative video!
Here's a quick question: What is the best defense platform build for defending against combined fleets, for example, fleet mainly uses artillery battleships for damage and swarms of corvette as fodder. Since corvettes are faster, they will first enter the combat range of defense platforms and absorb the initial strike. Is it actually worth building a few carrier platforms just to deal with the corvette swam?
well i hope it still work. i plan to play aggressive this time and i think this is very useful and it not consume fleet control too.
but in multiplayer i won't see them using it as much. maybe because it's easy to evade system that have defend platform setup and go destroy somewhere els
I'd like to know about the different ways to set up a bastion station. Best weapon mix and building mix for max defense.
Great analysis, how well do you think early hangar platforms will perform against corvettes/destroyers?