Tamaki should've been the one to say sorry, Haruhi didn't do anything, she just stood up for herself and acted rightfully passive aggressive against a guy who was being sexist, even if it was unintentional
ive seen some people argue that "haruhi is a girl and physically weaker, she should've called for help. if they werent there to save her she wouldve died." its not about that. the issue i have with this episode is the way the message is framed: we should help those in trouble, except if youre a woman. then you should just wait around til a man comes along because youre useless. in anime like mha deku is praised by all might for stepping in against the sludge villain even though hes a weak, quirkless nobody who would've died if all might hadn't stepped in to save him- and yet, his actions are painted as heroic. The narrative actually rewards him for this behaviour, as All Might chooses him to become his predecessor for this very reason. But suddenly, when a WOMAN shows bravery despite the odds being stacked against her, shes wrong and needs to apologize for her selfish behaviour. It's bullshit.
@@kirbyleggington7205 I hope someday anime creators sip respect women juice on the daily. I'm sick of a lot of sexism in anime that I would have enjoyed it it wasn't sexist.
Yes! All this!!! This made me think of Captain America. Steve Rodgers wasn’t afraid to stand up for his beliefs, even if it meant getting his ass kicked by people twice his size. Sure in real life it’s not the smartest thing to do, but the military leaders chose Steve for the super serum over larger, stronger candidates because of his bravery and selflessness. Even Bucky never scolded him when he saved Steve from getting beat up and didn’t expect Steve to apologize for standing his ground Wish they could have gone a similar route with how they treated Haruhi. At least in their attitudes towards her bravery. Like somehow convey that the problem was her intervening by herself in an unsafe way, not the fact that she as a woman dared to challenge a man. Maybe give her her own metaphorical “super serum” aka a solid support system to help her tag team those creepy guys
You summed up everything that was wrong with this episode when it comes to gender roles and women I'd get it if they were worried about Haruhi because she was outnumbered and she could've gotten seriously hurt but no, she's treated like she's in the wrong for standing up for herself and treated as fragile foe being a woman
As someone who went to high school and college in Japan, this isn’t too far from reality. The gender roles/gender norms are still deeply ingrained in Japanese society. As someone who grew up mostly in the United States as a tomboy, some of the things that were said to me I found appalling. It felt like I was transported back to the 1950s. Girls were expected to be quiet, “cute”, and neat. They were to be good cooks and weak and endearing. Girls who epitomized this ideal were popular with the boys and sought after, and girls who wanted to play sports or were more rambunctious were made fun of by both boys and girls (even if they had a lot of friends) as undesirable. The boy I liked at the time said he couldn’t date me, because my voice was loud and my personality was too strong and independent. No one wanted a girl who would actively stand up for herself or who had a vivacious personality. Things got better in college (because college kids are automatically less shallow than high schoolers anywhere in the world) but not by much. That was in 2015-2016, so I can only imagine how much worse it likely would have been during the early 2000s when Ouran was airing. (Disclaimer: Japan is my second home and I love it dearly! But no culture is perfect and it’s important to acknowledge the sexist and mysogynist aspects of Japanese culture)
Very interesting to know, thanks!! When seeing this video I was already guessing that this has to do with the social environment (Japan) the writer grew up in. To my own disappointment, this is seen at almost all anime and which is what I don't like about anime in general.. This cultural standard is probably also the reason why weightlifting isn't a thing in Japan, as I was desperately looking for a gymschool with weights during my vacation there. Also funny to realize that I am not girly because of disagreeing with what I've seen with anime while growing up'. What I also really love is that Mikasa (attack on titan) had her hair cut short and lots of people seems to be against it(???) and questioning why Eren has grown his hair long.
From what I gathered from watching anime or hearing about it from youtubers or just generally learning about Japan's culture, I figured this was part of the reason this episode occurred. There are many scenes in many anime that show these kinds of views on women and their "vulnerability and weakness" with them having to hide behind guys even if they are well trained in self defense
that's why i think that this episode is even worse, because they totally had the opportunity to emphasise that it doesn't matter what somebody's gender is, like the original intended audience might have assumed. they might have already assumed that she was going to be yelled at for trying to defend them while being a girl (even in secret), or thought that themselves, and it would've been so much better if it was originally emphasised that it was more about haruhi rushing into a dangerous situation and not asking for help (like sloppily expanded on later). though, i think another flaw of this episode and how it's interpreted is that they also don't leave her with many options? to this day, i honestly don't know what else haruhi could have done. even if 2v1 is obviously dangerous (and i'm a guy who's 5'1" so i can relate to being the smaller one in a fight), they're on a tall rock. it takes time to shout for help, and if someone even heard them it'd take time for somebody to get up there. haruhi can't leave them alone with the guys. it's a tough situation to begin with. so it's honestly sort of weird writing because it doesn't even fully emphasise haruhi going into things alone because there was really no other logical option present.
Yep. Went to Japan in 2012 and my host mother told a Japanese boy (17) not to teach me how to open a fan a certain way because it wasn't very feminine. 😂 I laughed a bit and did the fan thing anyway (managed to learn it). She was appalled. 😂😂 then a lot of the other host moms would tell me I'm soooo extroverted. And I'm over here like: ?????? I'm an introvert back home, though. 😂 girls must really be repressed. But went to a different part of Japan (Kumamoto) and there, the youngest daughter was into judo and taking lessons. And both daughters were impressed when I opened the fan the "masculine" way. Their mom was cool with them being taught how to do it. 🤷♀️ guess it depends where you go in Japan. And the age. (First host family was in their 60s the 2nd was in their 40s).
See, I knew this before clicking onto the video yet I still let the comments annoy me 😭 people indulge in other people’s cultures and are surprised and nearly disgusted by what they see. Not to mention, this is an old show so there’s going to be some outdated themes and beliefs! And when people don’t want to acknowledge that.... it’s annoying because other cultures looking into yours would probably have the same reaction..... but to dwell on it is weirddddd
@@xfakelucid6504 He's lucky he didnt get kicked right in the balls like he was all "you've left yourself defenseless" with her knee being less than a food away from his groin. So his point was even MORE useless because Haruhi clearly wasn't defenseless?? There's so many things wrong with that scene on so many levels
Even as a child and didn't understand the whole misogyny and sexism, this episode still left a bad, bad aftertaste. Like, I didn't feel good watching it. And it felt unusually long. Everything aside, it was just weird, and I didn't like it at all.
I feel like the Kyoya scene was just pure fan service, to see him in a very “sexual” manner even though it was creepy because that’s the world we live in
Doesnt mean its fine tho 🤷♀️. Anyways fan service or not we still dont understand WHY they included that in the episode, and why they thought Haruhi even needed to be in that honestly scary and horrific situation with Kyoya. Kyoya couldve easily made his point through many other means but he chose attempted s*xual assault instead.
I used to think that Kyoya did it just to know Haruhi's weakness or 'what makes her scared' but that also just makes it worse. That scene always made me uncomfortable.
yes I totally agree the first time I watched that scene i was like "oh wow he's so pretty" ya know and after rewatching it i was like "wtf just happened??"
Alright, so I always felt a bit... Icky about this episode so I decided to consult the original sources ie, the English subs and the manga. In the English subtitled version of the show, Haruhi doesn't apologize for being a woman, she doesn't see a reason too, and only apologizes after Hikaru, Kaoru, Honey, and Mori tell her she should be sorry for making them worry about her, which confuses her since she doesn't understand why they care. In the manga chapters that the episode is based off (Chapters 8&9) which actually did something I wasn't expecting. In the original manga, Haruhi does the whole apologizing for being weak thing, which Honey objects to, telling her that "that's not it" and that they were worried for her because she got physically hurt, something they left out of the Anime. The Kyoya scene though was not much better. In the manga it's actually kinda worse since it's not just the jumpcut to them on the bed, there's a whole page of them getting to that part, with increasingly creepy dialogue from him. When she calls him out on it, he proceeds to laugh like it was a harmless joke. WTF Kyoya.
YEAH IT CONFUSED ME BC I ONLY WATCHED THE SUB VERSION, SO I WAS LIKE "this is worse than how i remember it wtf is this shit" glad to know that most of the club was mad that she worried them. tamaki and kyoya are still... ehhh
@@liviasilva3333 i mean... Tamaki's skill kinda a dick about it but I can usually wave that one off as a product of his upbringing and genuine concern for Haruhi, even if he is still in the wrong. Kyoya on the other hand... bleh.
I just rewatched the dinner scene in English dub and honestly? Unless I'm missing something huge they do the same thing as the dub. The twins tell her she should probably learn self defense in the form of martial arts and Honey tells her that they were all worried about her and that's what she should apologize for. Unless the dub was like edited and re-released in recent years I'm so confused
I remember this episode not being my absolute favourite when I was a teenager. I never understood why but now I finally see. I like Tamaki but sometimes the dude really irritated me and this episode is one of the reasons why.
@@taylornguyen640 dude I’m sorry. I’m disappointed with them but not surprised. Idiots always respond to people rightfully calling out sexism by calling them “feminazis”. I hate it here.
@@alyssapinon9670 Exactly! And it was other girls too, like do you guys not see the gas lighting and manipulation and how messed up it is. Also in the same comment thread, I got someone saying I should get c-virus all because they got offended by the truth.
@@taylornguyen640 omg they sound like they drank some “internalized misogyny” juice. You and Haruhi are literally the meme that goes “why are you booing me I’m right?” And wishing c virus on you wtf is wrong with people
Mori is just the best character here, why? He hasn’t done anything controversial and he loved people cause of who they are, plus he is loyal and honourable. Oh yeah AND HE DOESNT SHOW ANY BIAS WITH HIS PRESTIGIOUS UPBRINGING AGAINST ANYONE.
Funfact mori was supposed to end up w haruhi but fans love tamakixharuhi soo much, the artist decided to go w fans choice. WE WOULD HAVE MORI AND HARUHI ENDING BUT NOOO. well not complaining much because i love tamaki also haha
@@MichaelTruckticus they end up together in canon and I’m like ?! She’s over here blushing in mori’s arms and he actually knows her . Wasted potential . Mori x haruhi squad
how the episode should have gone: haruhi- stands up for the girls and gets thrown off tamaki- saves her and get angry bc how dare she blah blah blah the rest of the host club- DEFENDS HER the dinner- things are sour between tamaki and haruhi but TAMAKI APPOLOGIZES for being SEXIST [KYOYA SCENE NEVER HAPPENS] then we proceed to the last part where haruhi gets scared and clings onto tamaki, which should have been see as “even strong people get scared sometimes “ and not “haruhi is a weak little girl and here’s an example” yea that was long srry this episode just makes me mad😭
My take would be more like this: •Tamaki does the same thing. •The other Host Club members say to Haruhi in the dinner scene something along the lines of “Tamaki’s typical comical sexism aside, he has tiny bit of a point. We’re a club now, which means we should all be there to help each other no matter what.”. •And in the end of the thunder scene Tamaki says something along “You don’t have to do things all alone anymore, I’ll...we’ll be there for you.”
God, growing up, I hated how they made her out to be weak just because she's a woman. My queen Haruhi didn't need no man to stand up for her and protect her.
@@kato-mp4478 that’s literally because they WROTE IT THAT WAY she’s not portrayed as weak in any other episodes and they literally didn’t need to write it that way. They could have instead written in so that she knew how to swim
They do this often in shoujo anime. They did the same thing in kaicho wa maid same and I hate that anime now. I used to live ouran till I watched this particular episode. This is disgusting
He didn't try to, he tried to show her he physically could. Which sounds bad and is bad but they were basically playing up the overprotective angle. I don't think he was meant to be sympathetic in his actions at any rate, but you're meant to see it as he has good intentions but is being an ass about it.
Yes! Exactly?!? We were SHOWN that haruhi wasn't scared of stupid props and ghosts. The only exception being Lightning. Yet She's made to be scared in that episode just to be made into a damsel in distress!. God its just so annoying. Another one is the Lobelia ep. We were shown repeatedly that Haruhi is a driven girl, Why would she just sit and stand in the stage waiting to be sexually assualted by a girl instead of protesting that instant. We know she won't care about the school girls opinions. Yet we get another damsel in distress movement. I love ouran but it had its streaks of sexism.
I remember being so upset as a child that they tried to make her feel bad about stopping harassment. This episode was really misplaced, the characters were really out of character, and it goes against everything the previous episodes had Haruhi been constantly masculinized. This episode was really not it.
Except they weren't trying to make her feel bad, they were trying to get her to understand that what she did was reckless and dangerous and that she should have asked them for help rather than going up against two males that were clearly bigger and stronger than her. I also thought that this was a really good episode in the fact that Haruhi was always masculinized and this episode just made everyone remember that Haruhi isn't a boy, she is a girl. And biologically she is physically weaker than boys are.
I find that scene completely outside of Kyoya’s character. He’s always been an understanding character, good and mature, no sense ruining his character so smart. He is my favorite character so I am very sorry for this choice.
It wasn't really out of character though. All Kyoya wanted to do in that episode was scare Haruhi and have her understand Tamaki's point, because it was clear that they were getting nowhere by just talking. And even Haruhi understood it because she even said that Kyoya is actually a really good guy, and she knew that Kyoya would never try to hurt her.
But he's also dark and mysterious. I just see this episode as fan service. Realistically he lacks social skills. I also think it was to establish in the narrative that he isn't romantically interested in Haruhi. I can't remember if this was in the manga. But yeah I just think taking the characters seriously is a mistake lol the implied incest is a good indicator of that
@@missquinberly it was actually the opposite--it was to show that he WAS interested in her. And then he made a certain comment that hinted at this after leaving the room but he didn't want to get in the way of Tamaki's feelings for her
So umm I'm just gonna say this right here: socially this is a pretty common perspective in Japan.... Hence my dad not wanting me to go back there (I'm half Japanese). I've grown up with my dad telling me "it doesn't matter how smart you are, they'll make you serve tea" cause gender roles are really set in place.
@@ASHERUISE it’s a gender role for Japanese women, I have a half Japanese friend who talked about how she was shamed for being too masculine after living in aus for some years - she was bullied for not being “quiet, reserved and cute” - she told me abt how the guys were mainly told abt how they have to protect the “weak and meek” women who’s job is to stay at home, cook, clean and as the original commenter said; pour tea for their husbands and visitors.
@@caitieknott7675 I mean I guess how much that matters depends on how upset you get over microaggressions bc I don't think it impacts daily life to such a high extent (except the bullying that's hella lame).
It's nice you have dad that's awear of that problem. Thier are alot of things japan still needs to inprove socially. About two years ago I remember reading a news story about how Tokyo university had caught rigging the test score of the female medical students to deny them entry. Legal action was taken by the students who where denied entry. So hopefully it gets better in the coming years.
@@ASHERUISE by serving tea, I'm not talking about at a restaurant. I'm talking about how instead of having an intern get coffee for everyone, one of the female employees is expected to do it
It's hard to love ouran tbh. It's funny and entertaining (+ I love the aesthetics and roses), then the next scene is some bullcrap transphobia and/or sexism abt girls being weak.
When they made the Lobellia girls have Nazi armbands, Kyoya “joking” about sexually assaulting Haruhi to prove to her that she cannot defend herself and needs a man, the transphobic slurs, and the subtle homophobia. Mori-senpai is the only good man in the world 😩
The rest of the stuff reeeally didn't age well but I'm pretty sure the Lobellia girls do not have nazi armbands. Unless I'm missing something specific about theirs in particular, they just have armbands which are totally normal and innocuous. Armbands (usually red, idk if they're ever any other color) are used in Japan to indicate some sort of authority (like a class president or club leader)
@@Bleckkeg778 You can be unoffended at something and still recognize aspects of homophobia. Literally in the video, Tamaki was going on a tirade about how lesbian relationships are absurd and hetero relationships are only proper. Which is played for laughs, but no one ever really challenges him on anything he says, its usually just circumstance that lands him being the butt of a joke. Not to mention the fetishization of "gay" relationships between 2 twin brothers and other classmates. There was use of transphobic slurs too, both in the dub and sub. Sub used the word "okama" which is pretty on par with "tranny". And btw, i am trans and gay myself but I'm not really offended (not a lot personally bothers me tbh) but that doesnt mean i dont think there weren't hints of/underlying transphobia or homophobia, nor do i think that its ok that theyre in there. I actually really used to love this anime, i have the whole series on dvd. it just means i try and stay critical, especially of things that I like because it helps me understand things more.
They could’ve had it where it was an episode about sexism and have them all in the wrong until THEY understand why haruhi could stand up to people while being a woman but also have the club be like “we were wrong, but you don’t also have to do everything alone” and a have an actual deep and meaningful episode
Initially Tamaki’s comment irked me. After reading the manga (which is a more complete story- 80+ chapters), I realized that the misogyny in the dialogue wasn’t the author’s point although Tamaki poorly mishandled the situation. In the manga, Tamaki says, “You didn’t call on us even though we were right there. Do you think a girl could take on 3 guys all alone?” The anime makes Tamaki double down on Haruhi being a weak girl when she pushes back while in the manga, he doesn’t. Neither Tamaki nor the group were mad that Haruhi stood up for those girls nor thought that she should know her place as “the weaker sex.” They were upset that she didn’t think about her friends’ concern for her safety nor even consider relying on them when things get difficult. They didn’t want her always diving into the deep end alone because they’re supposed to be a team. Hell, she was oblivious to their worry until they told her. That’s what she genuinely apologized for in both the english sub and manga not for being a weak woman. A crucial part of Haruhi’s arc in the manga is learning to trust and rely on her friends. Tamaki’s the opposite. From childhood, he desired to have a united family where they supported and relied on each other through hardships. That’s why he created the host club to build a family dynamic that he lacked. He likely felt hurt and thought that she didn’t feel the same. When Tamaki realized that Haruhi grew up facing fears and obstacles alone and that she wasn’t purposely trying to exclude them, he apologized. Honestly I felt this episode had more nuance than misogyny aside from Kyoya’s scene. No one was purely right nor wrong and it had nothing to do with Haruhi’s strength or gender. It was a case of Haruhi and Tamaki misunderstanding each other’s perspective and eventually coming to terms. Also in the manga, it’s clear that BOTH Haruhi and Tamaki were being childish and petty during dinner. I ain’t gonna lie I forgot how invested I once was with OHSHC 💀
Yes! I haven't read the manga, but this is exactly how i decided to interpret this episode. I never felt like Haruhi was apologizing for being women, just realizing that she can ask for help. And tamaki realizes why she never does--because that is how she grew up. The stuff with kyoya though, that definitely was out of character and very concerning.
i LOVE LOVE YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!!! honestly, ohshc is one of my favs EVER, it comforted 13 yo and it still comforts me now. though im not saying that it's perfect and that they never said fcking problematic stuff but you get my point lol 😭
I'm so glad someone made this video. A couple friends turned me onto this show a couple years back, and the Kyouya scene made me question whether I was watching the right show. They were both like "yeah, we like to forget about that episode." What the fuck, Ouran writers
@@rubysparx wttff it isnt that bad, why is everyone so pressed, almost every good anime has retarded episodes, there is no way of going around that, honestly i didnt even remember this episode i just brushed it off cause it didnt give anything good to the plot
This honestly made me feel bad for Caitlin Glass and Michael Tatum having to read those lines. Like Michael is such a nice guy, respects wamen, and I hate that he had to read this as one of his most loved characters. And Caitlin is such a sweetheart, like honestly one of the nicest voice actors I've met. They both also give really good hugs.
I actually met Vic mignogna at a convention once. Shook his hand and he was a really nice guy. Didn’t realize who he was until one of my friends who was with me told me after he left.
I always have mixed feelings about Tamaki. He has a good heart but a lot of misogyny and I absolutely hate him for it. Honestly, I really wish she ended up with Hikaru. We get to see him slowly get over his possessiveness and there’s a good reason for why he’s so protective, and unlike Tamaki he has respect for her and her boundaries.
Yeah totally! I feel like Tamaki wouldn’t even be a good partner for Haruhi. He’s always getting on her nerves and her father doesn’t like him for good reason. Not to mention the whole “calling himself Haruhi’s daddy” thing was just wrong
@@phoebemoon2796 omg yes! The fact he saw himself as her father figure and yet still crushed on her didn’t sit right with me at all. It just seemed predatory
also he is such a carrie but people dont hate on him nearly as much... like if a female blonde character openly mocked her friends like you'll be the gay supporting cast 👁️👄👁️ if he was a female he would be such spoiled girl who is completely clueless and selfishly thinks she is the main character(which is exactly how he is, he is kinda smillar to someone like rachel berry but again, these traits annoy people more on women then in men)
I felt so so sick after watching that episode. The blatant victim blaming throughout the whole episode absolutely disgusts me. Also the way they kept trying to make her wear a bikini to show her “womanly figure”- 🤢🤢
Kyoya was always my favorite character too, except for this scene. It was very dark and it ruined his character. I'm going to believe that scene didn't exist.
@@frizzttymto the emphasis was also on the nice part lmao, a lot of people would prefer the type of guy who doesn't say buncha ignorant stuff over the ones who do
On one hand, I like that Haruhi learned that it’s ok to rely on others sometimes. On the other hand, I *really hate* how patronising they were to her and how they didn’t value her perspective on the situation just because ShE’s A gIrL. Also, that scene with Kyoya mildly traumatised me...
THIIS. Thank you. It's cause she never relied on anyone and they wanted to know she could ask for help when she needed. It wasn't supposed to be a gender thing but the moral doesn't work because it's a reverse harem.
Except she didn't value their perspective either, not until the scene with Kyoya. They weren't trying to patronize her, they were trying to get her to understand that what she did was reckless and dangerous. Those two boys were clearly stronger and bigger than her and they could have seriously injured her. We, as women, need to understand that while we are strong and capable in our own rights, biologically, we just aren't physically stronger than males.
@@jaegerthedane3245 except haruhi is literally the one who ends up apologizing to them at the end of the episode. "We as women" dont need to understand anything lol. I'm not dumb, i know that i cant take a guy in a fight. Haruhi isnt ignorant of that fact either, im sure. She was wreckless but incredibly brave and selfless and should be commended for that. Not condescended to like a child and shamed for putting others above herself.
@@jaegerthedane3245 i as a woman have to disagree (not with all of it). this may be because i eat a lot of protein but majority of the women i'm friends with and/or just know, could take on many men. i mean, i knew a 5th grader who was 5'7, what did i expect? however this also cannot apply to all women (same thing with your comment, it can't apply to all women on either side). although yes we aren't stronger than them as a whole and/or biologically, we still can be. i just don't like that being thrown around. may just be me though. another thing unrelated to this! i know many men who assume that since they're men they don't have to work out or have a good diet to be strong, but if you don't have to do that then i assure you that you can take on someone (of any gender or sex) who does.
I really wish you were on the writing crew for that ep 😭 I remember when I first watched that episode when everybody was telling Haruhi that she did something wrong I was *genuinely* confused. I was sitting and thinking like “what. What did she do??? Isn’t she the hero here!!!!!???”
@@goldenboy8361 tf do you mean, cope? do you understand the struggles that trans people face- it's not easy to cope with. a lot of people become s//icidal because of the struggles they have to go through. and this comment wasn't even about that. it was about how it was showing a HORRIBLE scene where kyoya was trying to show haruhi a 'lesson' by acting like he was going to r//pe her, which is absolutely disgusting and awful
@@orion-in4vv I hate to be the ''don't feed the troll'' person but I assure you anyone who says ''cope'' 100% doesn't actually care about what they're hating on. They don't care about sexism or transphobia lol, they just want attention.
“It’s natural that every anime has to have a beach episode” *shows the beach scene from Another* Me: I- yea we don’t talk about that- *flash backs happen*
@@user-wh5fj6pj6m well, in the beach episode of Another, there was a graphic death. after i finished that episode my brother jump scared me and i yelled so loud- bro that anime is scary ngl
I feel weird cause I never interpreted this episode this way, and never really had a problem with it until everyone in the fandom started talking about it. I never really got the impression it was about gender? I know they say “you’re just a girl” so I figured that was part of it, but to me, it was more about Haruhi always being independent to a fault, which caused her to put herself in danger when she didn’t even have to. There was no reason she couldn’t have called the other club members to help when she saw the girls in trouble- NOT cause they are boys and she is a girl, but because there’s *6 of them and only 1 of her.* When the boys were scolding her, I interpreted it as them being unreasonable but coming from a place of genuine concern for a friend who could have gotten seriously hurt. Even though Haruhi decides she is going to apologize, I thought it was like “sorry I made you worry and I won’t be so reckless in the future.” Even then she never actually ends up having to apologize at all, so it doesn't seem like it's the opinion of the writers that she was in the wrong. In fact, Tamaki apologizes for not understanding WHY she was so independent in the first place (because she had to be growing up). Yes, she is almost always the only competent one, but she’s still a *human being* so I don’t see why she isn’t allowed to have faults or fears, even something silly like thunder. I didn’t take it as _“See! Tamaki saved her from the lightning cause he is a big strong man!”_ but rather Tamaki being there for his friend when she needed it, and Haruhi allowing someone to protect her for once. The fact that she was supposedly a “weak frail girl” and they are “big strong men” never occurred to me. As for the Kyoya scene….yeah…..no…..didn’t like that………..
Is everyone just easy offended or something I never had a problem with this episode The scene was random sure but I was like well that happened/ interesting way to teach something Maybe I grew up in a more “sexist” viewing in having someone stronger help out.
More or less I have similar opinion with you. I've read the manga where it's even more obvious that they are worried about her though I get what the author and the characters try to tell, it did make me felt annoyed too toward them since she's still brave for doing what she did. I read the comments in here and my thought was people get offended easily and forget about biology and reality. If a guy who doesn't know martial art, short and not really that strong against men who are obviously stronger than him can get defeated and hurted, what makes them think it wouldn't be worse if it's a girl with that same condition since a girl's body is less stronger than a man. That's like basic biology so it's understandable why Tamaki said what he said out of worry because for women, the chance it might not stop with just violence and might turn into SA isn't small. Irl, this can happen for real and have happened for real. While understandable, Tamaki did annoy me with the way he talked to Haruhi then again I never like Tamaki and Kyoya.
I think the purpose of the episode was to show Haruhi that she can rely on others too, the scene when she's vulnerable and runs to Tamaki for help being the climax of the lesson. But it was SO poorly executed that it ended up missinterpreting horribly, mostly because nobody explained WHY Haruhi was in the wrong, leaving it at "she's a weak woman"
This is why I believe that Haruhi shouldn't have ended up with anyone. They're all pretty toxic ngl Edit: Nvm Mori is the only one who doesn't have any problems- still think Haruhi shouldn't have ended up with anyone tho, I mean- I she got into the school BECAUSE of her academic ability, so does someone who had to study hard to get into school REALLY have time for romance? Also, I just felt as if she was more of the, independent type? It seemed to me that she wasnt interested in romance and stuff.
@@jazminegarcia2678 I’ve seen some stuff on tik tok talking about how the manga has its fair share of weird stuff. But since I’ve never read it at all you can fact check me. But one thing a person said was mori having some feelings for honey
@@one_piece-nut2692 they’re cousins and honey is his MMA teacher. Mori just looks up to him and finds him endearing. Honey ended up with some other girl the anime never got to.
The episode where they all went to the beach and the two strangers sexually harassed her and some girls and SHE had to apologize made me want to curse out the writers. Not to mention they gave the attackers gifts which hurt me in a entirely new way. The show was at first my comfort show but seeing that episode triggered some bad memories from my past so i had to take a break from watching it. Panic attacks are a bitch (2 years late but in the wise words of Mile Morales "Einstein said time was relative, right? Maybe I'm not late. Maybe you guys are early.")
@@vickywickyisckyficky4952 nope, I’ve watched the episode like three times. They clearly showed they gave the attackers flowers to apologize for her. And SHE had to pay for them
So I actually watched this scene a moment ago and it clearly says that he bought flowers to victims not abusers. Kyoya said that three bouquets were bought for girls and abusers were beaten by tweens nearly to death.
@@dotty3825 if the flowers where given to the victims why would she have to pay for themselves seeing as she was a victim herself and why would she be in the “wrong” in the first place. Giving the other girls the flowers would’ve thrown the entire messed up message if the episode off.
@@rantingsfromateenagerspers499 They bought them for girls to apologize because girls were looking forward to this trip and they didn't want to disappoint them. You can hear it yourself in this clip: ruclips.net/video/sYkMS07nq9U/видео.html
Depressingly that wasn't a push for extra fan service, that was in the original manga. Honestly, the anime did us a favor and cut the scene shorter, since it takes up a whole 4 pages from start to finish and they cut out maybe a page's worth of it.
@@victoriawhitcomb6475 Maybe the manga author was pushing for extra fan service when they wrote that part of the manga in the first place. This series is the type of manga genre which aims to have teenage girl aimed fan service after all.
The kyoya scene weirded child me out so much. To the point I theorised that maybe since he has all this power (police wise) he had no shame in acting that way. After all, who would believe Haruhi if she told the police? The police is under Kyoya’s control/ his family’s control. It’s sad that child me tried to rationalise that scene so much that it ultimately made me believe he was always just a horrible person waiting for the moment to pounce.
In the Kyoya scene, I was soooooo confused and disgusted at the same time. Even if I was young at that time, I was like- "KYOYA???? WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?"
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 but the bet was supposed to be quirky and fun. Sure literal sexual harassment would scare the shit out of a person but it's low key traumatizing and horrible.
I remember this episode made me mad because she apologizes. Sure she put herself in danger but it’s not like she threw herself off the cliff why is she being blamed? I was frustrated when they got mad but when she gave in and she was framed as wrong it was so ANNOYING
@@onaevolution yup and the romance and shouts genre STILL does. Any strong female lead has these same tropes in the series and always randomly decides she’s an airhead or clueless at times even though she’s otherwise depicted as smart and strong. I seek out strong female leads and have this happen EVERY TIME. Then I watched this video about when Isabelle was being designed for animal crossing.....and it connected all the dots because they creators out right admitted it was to make her more feminine and appealing. So basically they see being an airhead and naive as cute and feminine and that it has to be added to balance out a strong smart or otherwise independent female character....otherwise she’s too manly and unappealing. Japan is still so far behind in terms of gender roles and politics. It’s still legal to discriminate against women for pregnancy in the work place or even their husbands getting promotions at completely different firms because it’s assumed that if he has to move for work she will have to move and it’s too bothersome when female employees get married
My only thing with this is that, in the end, she said sorry for worrying you. That’s a common phrase in Japan that is expected when you do something that would make someone worried. That’s why she apologized, but I do agree that it was hella weird and sexist to guilt trip the victim into saying sorry cause she wasn’t “strong enough”
@weeby weeb and I’ve seen multiple people saying it’s hot but it’s not and his reasoning was to “teach her a lesson” because girls shouldn’t fight and stuff
I’ve seen this show from like 3 and half years ago , I was naive at that time , thinking that it was ‘hot , .but I finally came to understand how bad it was shown off
i think that what haruhi did was undeniably brave and the right thing to do but it was also incredibly dangerous 😔 she made the right decision and they should’ve recognized that but still show the lesson of her learning that she can rely on others
6:05 props to Haruhi tho. Kyoya was really expecting for her to start crying and get all submissive and Haruhi’s only response was: “Lmao you won’t :P” I can only imagine the adrenaline rushing through her body tryna stay calm 💀
I actually liked how Tamaki went to comfort Haruhi, especially seeing how Haruhi had to deal with things alone for most of her life. However, after watching everyone tell Haruhi that she shouldn't stand up for herself like that and how she needed to be protected, it didn't feel as nice as it would've if it was just a scene about Haruhi learning to rely on others.
it ruined kyoya for me and made me very uncomfortable with the supposed “message.” i wish this episode didn’t exist. i watched this for the first time around 13 and i’m 16 now. it made me uncomfortable then and still does.
I also watched it when I was 13 and now I'm 16. I don't remember much of the show but ever time someone says they like kyoya i remember that awful scene😞
I read the manga version of this whole scenario and it was better illustrated than this version. The rest of the hosts dont directly side with Tamaki on his reason to be worried. Instead of the whole "because she's a woman" reason, the rest of the hosts (Haruhi included) acknowledge that it was because shes petite and doesn't know self defense that could make her vulnerable. The Kyoya scene still happens but it doesn't feel as sexist or rapey like in the animation. He even tells her that acting the way she did was good, but that she shouldn't put her guard down. I feel as though the animation should've done something like the manga version instead of... This.
Also to note, Honey and Mori also seem confused as to why Tamaki reacted the way he did if he was just worried. During the whole thunderstorm scene, Tamaki also acknowledges that Haruhi has a "built in independence" and admits he was in the wrong (but still tells her that he'll be with her so she doesn't need to do crazy things).
So it's not only my hazy memory then haha. I feel like the manga potrayed better ( tbh the art and the jokes are generally better in the manga too ). I was an elementary school kid back then so I don't remember many details
I remember, even as a 12 year old child, curious about everything, the Kyoya scene and this episode in general made me cry and I was really uncomfortable even at that time, I didn't realise why, I was thinking poor Haruhi at that time, but now many years later, I just.. I'm just feeling so much anger regarding this.
Thank you for making this. That episode alway annoyed me even as a kid I remember seeing her stand up to them and I was like YEAH HUDUHI and then they were all like no and I was so confused like what would have happened to those girls if she didn’t step in. It also made me hate kyoya for the rest of the show like the whole thing. Your suggestion were good I wish that is what the episode was
@@goldenboy8361 1.She said it made her laugh. 2. The show goes out of its way to make fun of Tamaki. 3. The show made a mistake with making one of their morals sexist and unconfortable. 4. It's a PG-13 anime, calm the fuck down. 5. She's literally just reviewing an episode, like all critics tend to do. 6. You clearly didn't watch the video or really know what RUclips is, do you? 7. If you think sexism and transphobia is okay, you need to get the hell outta here right now :D
@@goldenboy8361 As a trans person, I agree, transphobia is dumb but it's kind of hard for us to cope because we are told we don't exist and other bullshit like that
yeah, but i think what the problem is- that almost 15 years later, the show is still gaining popularity- and hardly anyone has brought up how problematic it is. i don't think it matters when it was made- bad views are bad views, they chose to create the manga into an anime- i was bourn only a year later and my great grandma and grandad have never thought like this. it's just disappointing how peeps let it slide then- and are still letting it slide Also, we would have never progressed unless someone knew that it was wrong- that someone would have had their own opinion and made the world change, it's sad that Ouran wasn't part of it :( Double also- i don't think we should be excusing it, it was transphobic and sexist- doesn't matter if it was expectable back then, it isn't now- so we need to bring that to attention (◍＞◡＜◍)⋈。✧♡
@@lalas9255 I agree I agree-just because some of the things in the show maybe explainable due to the time it was made that doesn’t mean it should be excused.
@@everythingz888 It's more of an explanation than a valid reason. I think the fact that it was made in Japan is also a reason for the views, they've become more progressive but are still behind for now.
Exactly, especially because tamaki is more concerned that a girl acted proactively and stepped in to do the right thing rather than tbe fact that Haruhi could've died or gotten hurt.
when they were together in that room at the hotel I was like: “okay this isn’t that bad...” 👁👄👁 *kyoya turns down the lights* Me: “okay... are they going to make out or sum...?-“ 👁👄👁💧 “Maybe you could repay me... your body” *pins Haduhi to the bed shirtless* Me: 🕳👨🦯
I was so desperate for this to be like a nightmare scene that isn't real or for kyoya to be like "lol jk" (even though that is something you should NEVER joke about) because I wanted to keep on liking kyoya SO FREAKING BADLY
If you read the manga, that bedroom scene is MUCH WORSE from a snippet of what I've read. TW: Molestation (mentioned) He says: "I am a man so I can molest you at any time." & "As a woman, you'll never be able to push me off." Given this manga is old (manga: 2003, anime: 2006) and this is from a Japanese author; I know why this episode is incredibly sexist. Japan is strict about gender roles, I am not sure if it has improved or not nowadays. Also I would have told him he was nice to make him feel worse about what he did. 👀 To prevent him from ACTUALLY acting upon what he was threatening to do... he secretly wouldn't have wanted to ruin anything between the pair of them. But honestly Haruhi, why did the creator make you so oblivious and accepting of your fates in these scenes? Do you really have no value for yourself in these circumstances? She is such a smart girl and then they decided to enforce toxic masculinity and feminity into the series. Its just how these guys are; some are just that simple-minded and brainwashed to categorize all women as vulnerable. You can blame gender roles in Japan for that; their fathers probably forced them to believe they should always protect women since they are considered "weaklings".
Yeah, I think they were just worried for her, and the plot pushes the fact that she has been alone and doing things on her own all her life and they just wanted her to feel like she could rely on someone. It's not supposed to be a gender thing. But initially this scene bothers me too, some morals dont work because its a reverse harem.
You're right and thr narrative pushed the idea that Haruhi needs help amd protection because she's a girl and not the fac that people care about her and sometimes it's okay to ask for help
Thank you so much! I watched this episode and was instantly appalled at not only the sexism, but the lack of notice about it on the internet. I had watched this show only once a long time ago, and couldn’t remember anything being this sexist, but now that I’m watching it again I can’t believe it got this popular without the topic of the obvious sexism being brought up.
I'm so glad you feel the same way! I was kind of appalled to see how highly this particular episode is rated, and there's a lot of undiscussed sexism in this show in general. I still love it, but... it has some BIG issues. Thanks so much!!!!
Devil's advocate here, hello! This is a pretty hard topic to tackle. While I feel like I can agree with you in a lot of ways, I also feel compelled to give how I interpreted the episode on how it was presented. I felt like the episode was specifically made to be a hard pill to swallow, everything was written to be hard for us to accept. You mention many times how are you supposed to agree with any of it, how the characters were written so one was usually right while the other usually wrong and suddenly it's switched, how a character we really like had suddenly changed to appear predatory. That is usually the reality. People can not be right all the time, and while you may be inclined to believe the person who's usually correct, one can't just push aside the opinion of the person who's usually wrong. Often times sexual assault is done by someone the person knows and trusts, and it turns out their trust in the perpetrator was misguided. I hate to see Kyoya in any light even remotely like that, but damn was it a great example of what could happen. The scene about helping those other girls wasn't about how Haruhi shouldn't have stood up for someone because she's a girl, it's about provoking a pack of wild unruly men who are guaranteed stronger than her. Had she'd been known as a girl to them, they'd have tried to harass her the way they did the other girls. But since she appeared as a boy, they opted to nearly kill her instead. The truly hard part about it is they would have succeeded. Haruhi could not fight back, this can't always be helped. She was going to die. It's not an unusual reaction for people who cared about her to have been as stressed about it as they were. I wholeheartedly agree that she did the right thing, and if she had done nothing in that moment, who knows how a situation like that could've gone in reality. But it doesn't mean that one should dismiss the way her friends felt about her almost losing her life. It's not something everyone can simply brush off, and a lot of times, trauma doesn't just apply to the person who experienced the event first hand. Had Tamaki not been there and they actually lost her, no one would've come back from that, and it's a scary thought to have. And as I was advocating earlier about Kyoya's choice of action, I really wish it didn't come to that. Young me definitely thought it was just a fan service thing like a lot of other people mentioned in the comment section, but watching it now does make me pretty uncomfortable. Especially because, like you, he was a favorite (these days it's Mori but shh don't tell them). But as I had said, I think that was point, in that he was someone we trusted and didn't expect it from, while simultaneously being the only one who would feel this was the best way for the message to be conveyed. I mean, she definitely didn't fight back there cause she knew he wouldn't do it, but there's no denying he's still stronger. You mentioned that you originally thought the lesson was going to be the boys (during the "defending the girls" aftermath) telling her that it was dangerous and that she should get help when things like that happen, but it went with the direction it had gone instead... I think that was still the lesson. Only it was told in a more "show don't tell" style because it's still the lesson I walked away with, personally. So rather than saying it straight out, there was examples and emotions running high through out the episode. Biggest thing I'd change is that while I was fine with her apologizing because she didn't understand the magnitude of their feelings in the beginning, I kinda wish they'd have said sorry, too. That they could've said it wasn't about them doubting her character, and that Haruhi was brave for what she did, but explaining why they felt the way they did... or rather, going into detail into how Tamaki was behaving. There was two sides to every story and it feels almost too easy to take Haruhi's side since she's our main character, and we're women too. I'd love if they had talked more about the way the boys reacted.
Exactly! I almost thought I watched a different show seeing other commets, lol... Also, I feel like all the Tamaki said about "you're a girl, you're weak" is just normal for HIM to say. Maybe he's more of a conservative person. I mean, only men(except for Haruhi, but it was an accident) work in his host club, and Tamaki himself acts like a typical prince while at work. Of course, it's not good for anyone to see the world in that way, but he has a right to have his own opinion. I can't remember anyone ever agreeing with him in a "yes, all the girls are just weak" way except for his clients(who obviously like him enough), so I think it's good for him to have flaws as a character. He's not perfect. OR maybe he's just bad at expressing himself. He can't say "Haruhi, I love/care for you/I'm jealous", he says thousands of "daddy wants.." instead. OR it is also a translation/my memory problem, because I remember host club members(not Tamaki) directly saying, that they just worried for her, that she was alone against a bunch of dangerous men and it was childish for her to think, that they didn't care.
Yeah I think they were trying to give the message "you don't have to do things alone", but it came out as "you shouldn't do things alone, you can't do things alone".
even as a child i was so scared of the scene where kyoya basically harrassed haruhi because i didnt understand why he did that, and i felt really grossed out at the time
Do it like FMA. Since now they have all the manga out, they can kinda rewrite the storyline to fit the manga more and everything, and get rid of this monstrosity.
Ouran definitely shows how it's written by a Japanese person not of newer generations. The gender stereotypes are pretty obvious even if I barely noticed any slurs while watching the sub version. Plus I've always been kind of not too pleased with Tamaki being with Haruhi. He's obsessed with the idea of Haruhi acting like a 'classic female'. However I can see how to some certain people, a possessive male lead is appealing. It's still the same in stuff like manhwa, where you'd like find a dark haired stotic male lead who acts possessively and everyone just goes 'he's so hot-'.
I still want the animation/art style to stay the same though- it's my favorite part it's so unique like please don't try make it HD violet evergarden esk I want the super bold lines pleeeeaassseee
The fact that kyoya, the one with an actual brain (aside from haruhi) in that whole damn club, would say such a thing. My guy said that she could pay her debt with her body. Kyoya, wtf-
I'm not defending this scene bc it made me super uncomfortable for reasons, but I will say Kyoka didn't mean anything he said. He was trying to scare her into seeing how quickly things could have turned south at the beach (in the hosts' opinions, anyway)
yeah, when i rewatched ouran just recently i was very much reminded of many of the problematic tropes that it delves into! rewatching the show, i made the connection of haruhi being possibly non-binary! since the beginning of the show, she didn’t necessarily feel the need to fit herself within the constraints of being solely feminine or masculine. in fact, i think there were plenty of times where she referred to her self as female just *biologically!* but tamaki was super insistent on having her be more feminine and girly, which also left a sour taste in my mouth. and then there was episodes with haruhi’s father, who has stated that they are bisexual and who i perceived as either a transwomen or also non-binary! in a way, this show had some pretty progressive ideas for its time, but the way it was dealt with was very OF its time. things like forcing femininity on haruhi, calling haruhi’s father an offensive term, and being incredibly sexist in the beach episode reminded me of the time it was made, where it was made, and who it was made by! we obviously should not simply accept those kinds of messages that are weaved inside all of the good that this show offers, but we definitely should recognize that this was made around 15 years ago by japanese people for a japanese audience who probably had very different progressive views at the time. but i’m glad that we can recognize and criticize the shows flaws, while still appreciating the work as a whole :)
Haruhi's dad is canonicaly a cross dresser/transvestite. He's one of my favorites honestly. A little sad when i heard about the slur in dub and the short stick he got..
That whole episode made me feel uncomfortable and when she apologized for doing nothing wrong made me confused and angry. I thought the boys might apologize for being idiots but nope.
i really did like kyoya but then that episode happened...i decided to like mori cause i realized whenever the guys open their mouth i was waiting for something to go wrong💀 but with him i didn’t even have to worry about him opening his mouth half the time-💀
What kills me about “The Sun, the Sea, and the Host Club” is that the first 2/3 were SO GOOD. That episode was actually the first one I was told about when asking me to watch the show, and then the first half was so strong and then it just… tanked.
I try to cope with the episode by telling myself the rest of the boys were more worried by her not remembering they're a team and are just still too caught up in the sexism they were raised with to express it better...but no, no it's bad. I'd never really put together before how much the fear of thunderstorms is used as a plot device rather than a way to round out her character. Thank you for this essay.
God I watched ohshc for the first time when I was like 14. That scene with Kyoya scarred the fuck out of me 😭😭 not only that but when Haruhi is like "wow Kyoya senpai you're a really nice person" I was horrified. A piece of my soul died that day lmaoo
i had originally had the perception that tamaki was angry at haruhi because she was oblivious at how putting herself in danger could worry the other host club members. when tamaki gets mad haruhi is confused because she hasn't done anything to directly hurt him as he was not pushed into the water. what she does not consider is that the other host members care about her and thus her not being safe troubles them; she assumes that she only hurts others through an affect on their personal comfort and not through herself. later on with the lightning scene it is made apparent that haruhi has spent most of her childhood alone and therefore has been raised to handle things herself, alone, without asking for the help of others. alongside this no one is there to sympathise with her fears, leading her to not consider that her suffering may trouble those who care for her. this makes tamaki realise why she doesn't understand that the other host club memebers were worried and why she interfered without asking for help. i do strongly agree that this episode had themes and messages that were demeaning in many ways and that that haruhi should have been more strongly portrayed as the right. just wanted to share how i initially perceived it D: + although tamaki was worried his justification of it being because that haruhi is 'just a girl' is complete bullshit and him and kyoya had no right to impose those thoughts on her when she was completely in the right :3
Yeah same when I watched this show for the first time when I was younger thats how I perceived it, re-watching it when I was older tho... well I think I got the intended message and I did not enjoy it
I think they had good intentions while thinking of the general idea for this episode, as it would have take little touches here and there, especially dialogues, plus elimination of the kyoya scene, to make this a good episode in terms of message and character development. Something went wrong though. Especially if you consider that the theme "you can't handle everything alone. Let us friends help you", that would seem more that logical given the first part of the episode, implies that haruhi so far has been shown as a capable, independent person. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense to have this as a theme! So basically they are admitting that they meant haruhi's as a strong character in the very act of planning an episode which seems to show us that she's not "invincible" (she has fears, che cannot handle anything on her own. But not because she's a girl, but because nobody can!), Something we had to be convinced of because it went against our perception of the character! The concept to mecould have made sense... But it should have been about haruhi has a person who's not used to have friends and people who can support her rather then about haruhi as a girl who tries to rebel against her nature and be independent.
i don’t remember them being sexist WHAT. my child brain did NOT process that lmao. All this time i thought they were just worried about her not knowing martial arts or something?! not because she was a girl Owksalksms
As a Japanese person I have to admit Ouran Hostclub is an awful sexist show. Unfortunately nobody is discussing about it, and I feel people in Japan (since I understand both) seem indifferent towards these issues.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 Honestly, I don’t enjoy the show in my opinion because the patronising gets so focused in a lot of these episodes and it just overshadows the humor in the end anD SPEAKING OF THE END THE SHIP IS A TRASH
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
bad ep
Hi Kyoko, also I agree. This show is rated PG. wtf.
3 years later, I found my brothers 2nd crush after his 1st one died.
couldn't have said it better
@@dog_4556 and? How’d it go down?
@@Dressup_Doll oh, I mean this ''Kyouko Kirigiri'' person, is Komaru Naegi's brothers crush, so.
this episode feels like it was written by a different team of people
YEAHH THATS WHAT I FELT TOO WHEN I WATCHED IT AWHILE AGO,, IT FELT SO SO SO OUT OF PLACE
fr tho it feels off
FR
when you watch the show around the time it aired, or seen enough (old school) shoujo, it does not
isn't this an adaption from manga? is this episode not in the manga?
We wanted to see Kyoya shirtless but never like this
never like this
never ever EVER like this
Seriously
Kyoya was did dirty.
They did Kyoya so Dirty
Bro when everyone was telling Haruhi to apologize during the dinner scene all I could think was “stop gaslighting her” 😭
Right? The whole time I was thinking “why are you booing her, she’s right!”
Tamaki should've been the one to say sorry, Haruhi didn't do anything, she just stood up for herself and acted rightfully passive aggressive against a guy who was being sexist, even if it was unintentional
@@mitsubachihachi9643 i agree
SAME OMG like I’m fr that was my exact thought
I think she should've apologize, but not for "being a weak girl" but for putting herself at risk and not relying on her friends more
ive seen some people argue that "haruhi is a girl and physically weaker, she should've called for help. if they werent there to save her she wouldve died." its not about that. the issue i have with this episode is the way the message is framed: we should help those in trouble, except if youre a woman. then you should just wait around til a man comes along because youre useless.
in anime like mha deku is praised by all might for stepping in against the sludge villain even though hes a weak, quirkless nobody who would've died if all might hadn't stepped in to save him- and yet, his actions are painted as heroic. The narrative actually rewards him for this behaviour, as All Might chooses him to become his predecessor for this very reason.
But suddenly, when a WOMAN shows bravery despite the odds being stacked against her, shes wrong and needs to apologize for her selfish behaviour. It's bullshit.
Exactly. Honey is smaller but they never would have yelled at him.
Probably helps that Allmight’s mentor was a woman so he never lacks on respect women juice
@@kirbyleggington7205 I hope someday anime creators sip respect women juice on the daily. I'm sick of a lot of sexism in anime that I would have enjoyed it it wasn't sexist.
Yes! All this!!! This made me think of Captain America. Steve Rodgers wasn’t afraid to stand up for his beliefs, even if it meant getting his ass kicked by people twice his size. Sure in real life it’s not the smartest thing to do, but the military leaders chose Steve for the super serum over larger, stronger candidates because of his bravery and selflessness. Even Bucky never scolded him when he saved Steve from getting beat up and didn’t expect Steve to apologize for standing his ground
Wish they could have gone a similar route with how they treated Haruhi. At least in their attitudes towards her bravery. Like somehow convey that the problem was her intervening by herself in an unsafe way, not the fact that she as a woman dared to challenge a man. Maybe give her her own metaphorical “super serum” aka a solid support system to help her tag team those creepy guys
You summed up everything that was wrong with this episode when it comes to gender roles and women
I'd get it if they were worried about Haruhi because she was outnumbered and she could've gotten seriously hurt but no, she's treated like she's in the wrong for standing up for herself and treated as fragile foe being a woman
As someone who went to high school and college in Japan, this isn’t too far from reality. The gender roles/gender norms are still deeply ingrained in Japanese society. As someone who grew up mostly in the United States as a tomboy, some of the things that were said to me I found appalling. It felt like I was transported back to the 1950s. Girls were expected to be quiet, “cute”, and neat. They were to be good cooks and weak and endearing. Girls who epitomized this ideal were popular with the boys and sought after, and girls who wanted to play sports or were more rambunctious were made fun of by both boys and girls (even if they had a lot of friends) as undesirable. The boy I liked at the time said he couldn’t date me, because my voice was loud and my personality was too strong and independent. No one wanted a girl who would actively stand up for herself or who had a vivacious personality. Things got better in college (because college kids are automatically less shallow than high schoolers anywhere in the world) but not by much. That was in 2015-2016, so I can only imagine how much worse it likely would have been during the early 2000s when Ouran was airing. (Disclaimer: Japan is my second home and I love it dearly! But no culture is perfect and it’s important to acknowledge the sexist and mysogynist aspects of Japanese culture)
Very interesting to know, thanks!! When seeing this video I was already guessing that this has to do with the social environment (Japan) the writer grew up in. To my own disappointment, this is seen at almost all anime and which is what I don't like about anime in general.. This cultural standard is probably also the reason why weightlifting isn't a thing in Japan, as I was desperately looking for a gymschool with weights during my vacation there. Also funny to realize that I am not girly because of disagreeing with what I've seen with anime while growing up'. What I also really love is that Mikasa (attack on titan) had her hair cut short and lots of people seems to be against it(???) and questioning why Eren has grown his hair long.
From what I gathered from watching anime or hearing about it from youtubers or just generally learning about Japan's culture, I figured this was part of the reason this episode occurred. There are many scenes in many anime that show these kinds of views on women and their "vulnerability and weakness" with them having to hide behind guys even if they are well trained in self defense
that's why i think that this episode is even worse, because they totally had the opportunity to emphasise that it doesn't matter what somebody's gender is, like the original intended audience might have assumed. they might have already assumed that she was going to be yelled at for trying to defend them while being a girl (even in secret), or thought that themselves, and it would've been so much better if it was originally emphasised that it was more about haruhi rushing into a dangerous situation and not asking for help (like sloppily expanded on later). though, i think another flaw of this episode and how it's interpreted is that they also don't leave her with many options? to this day, i honestly don't know what else haruhi could have done. even if 2v1 is obviously dangerous (and i'm a guy who's 5'1" so i can relate to being the smaller one in a fight), they're on a tall rock. it takes time to shout for help, and if someone even heard them it'd take time for somebody to get up there. haruhi can't leave them alone with the guys. it's a tough situation to begin with. so it's honestly sort of weird writing because it doesn't even fully emphasise haruhi going into things alone because there was really no other logical option present.
Yep. Went to Japan in 2012 and my host mother told a Japanese boy (17) not to teach me how to open a fan a certain way because it wasn't very feminine. 😂 I laughed a bit and did the fan thing anyway (managed to learn it). She was appalled. 😂😂 then a lot of the other host moms would tell me I'm soooo extroverted. And I'm over here like: ?????? I'm an introvert back home, though. 😂 girls must really be repressed.
But went to a different part of Japan (Kumamoto) and there, the youngest daughter was into judo and taking lessons. And both daughters were impressed when I opened the fan the "masculine" way. Their mom was cool with them being taught how to do it. 🤷♀️ guess it depends where you go in Japan. And the age. (First host family was in their 60s the 2nd was in their 40s).
See, I knew this before clicking onto the video yet I still let the comments annoy me 😭 people indulge in other people’s cultures and are surprised and nearly disgusted by what they see. Not to mention, this is an old show so there’s going to be some outdated themes and beliefs! And when people don’t want to acknowledge that.... it’s annoying because other cultures looking into yours would probably have the same reaction..... but to dwell on it is weirddddd
I still don’t understand why Haruhi apologized-
edit: YALL I WROTE THIS COMMENT A YEAR AGO I KNOW WHY THIS GIRL APOLOGIZED💀💀
They all made her feel like she was in the wrong, even though she wasn't, it fucked with her brain so she apologized blindly basically
They guilt tripped her
This is so fucking wrong..
He faked a sexul* assault on haruhi to show her how weak she was and how men truly were so she said apologized a mess
ME TOO like what... the whole episode i was confused af, i feek bad for her ngl
My biggest issue is that kyoya was so out of character? Like where the hell did that come from
Fecking agree.
"teaching her a lesson" THAT IS THE WORST WAY TO TEACH SOMEONE A LESSON
Yeah even when I watched this when I was 10 years old felt like something was off about kyoya in that scene like wtf-
He was trying to prove a point for Tamaki that girls are weak and incapable of defending themselves, which is so wrong
@@xfakelucid6504 He's lucky he didnt get kicked right in the balls like he was all "you've left yourself defenseless" with her knee being less than a food away from his groin. So his point was even MORE useless because Haruhi clearly wasn't defenseless?? There's so many things wrong with that scene on so many levels
Even as a child and didn't understand the whole misogyny and sexism, this episode still left a bad, bad aftertaste. Like, I didn't feel good watching it. And it felt unusually long. Everything aside, it was just weird, and I didn't like it at all.
Same watching this as a child I didn’t understand why they were mad or why she had to apologize for saving that girl or why kyoya pushed her down
@@ihml.6945 i agree
I was always on Haruhu's side as a child even if I didn't fully understand what was going on.
THIS!
That's how you know when something is bad: If a kid sees it and think "that's weird"
@@ihml.6945he did it to prove tamaki’s point i thinj
I feel like the Kyoya scene was just pure fan service, to see him in a very “sexual” manner even though it was creepy because that’s the world we live in
It was made in 2006 too qwq
Right
Doesnt mean its fine tho 🤷♀️. Anyways fan service or not we still dont understand WHY they included that in the episode, and why they thought Haruhi even needed to be in that honestly scary and horrific situation with Kyoya. Kyoya couldve easily made his point through many other means but he chose attempted s*xual assault instead.
I used to think that Kyoya did it just to know Haruhi's weakness or 'what makes her scared' but that also just makes it worse. That scene always made me uncomfortable.
yes I totally agree the first time I watched that scene i was like "oh wow he's so pretty" ya know and after rewatching it i was like "wtf just happened??"
Guys this wasn’t kyoya! This was his secret twin name yolk who never seen again!
now who tf let yolk out his cage !!!
yOLK???? CAN SOMEONE EPLAIN THIS TO ME ITHAT CAUGHT ME SO OFF GUARD
NOT AGAIN WHO LET YOLK OUT?
@@sepphie469 clearly your not a manga reader smh
@@cabbage9798 IM SORRY NAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I DONT READ THE MANGA
YES, YES, YES.
i was so pissed when haruhi ended up apologizing. she literally did nothing wrong like-
ew.
Fr
ik
Agreed
tbh i haven’t seen the ep in a while, but didn’t she apologize for worrying them, not because she thought what she did was wrong?
@@ipikki6256 she did both
Alright, so I always felt a bit... Icky about this episode so I decided to consult the original sources ie, the English subs and the manga.
In the English subtitled version of the show, Haruhi doesn't apologize for being a woman, she doesn't see a reason too, and only apologizes after Hikaru, Kaoru, Honey, and Mori tell her she should be sorry for making them worry about her, which confuses her since she doesn't understand why they care.
In the manga chapters that the episode is based off (Chapters 8&9) which actually did something I wasn't expecting. In the original manga, Haruhi does the whole apologizing for being weak thing, which Honey objects to, telling her that "that's not it" and that they were worried for her because she got physically hurt, something they left out of the Anime.
The Kyoya scene though was not much better. In the manga it's actually kinda worse since it's not just the jumpcut to them on the bed, there's a whole page of them getting to that part, with increasingly creepy dialogue from him. When she calls him out on it, he proceeds to laugh like it was a harmless joke. WTF Kyoya.
Never liked kyoya much and now I never will
YEAH IT CONFUSED ME BC I ONLY WATCHED THE SUB VERSION, SO I WAS LIKE "this is worse than how i remember it wtf is this shit" glad to know that most of the club was mad that she worried them. tamaki and kyoya are still... ehhh
@@liviasilva3333 i mean... Tamaki's skill kinda a dick about it but I can usually wave that one off as a product of his upbringing and genuine concern for Haruhi, even if he is still in the wrong. Kyoya on the other hand... bleh.
So basically it looks like things got lost in translation when that chapter got adapted and translated.
I just rewatched the dinner scene in English dub and honestly? Unless I'm missing something huge they do the same thing as the dub. The twins tell her she should probably learn self defense in the form of martial arts and Honey tells her that they were all worried about her and that's what she should apologize for. Unless the dub was like edited and re-released in recent years I'm so confused
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Mori is the best of the hosts
Yes thank you he’s the only reasonable character
YES
unpopular opinion: Mori and Haruhi should’ve Ended up together.
@@30daysnosleep No literally, only one who actually deserves her. :/
@@30daysnosleep OH MY GOD YESSSS
What I hated most is how SO MANY people wished to be in haruhi’s position 😭
OH MY GOD I WAS SO DISGUSTED ABOUT IT😭😭
RIGHT
What? 😀
WTH THAT IS LITERALLY SO DISGUSTING-
thats fucked up
I remember this episode not being my absolute favourite when I was a teenager. I never understood why but now I finally see. I like Tamaki but sometimes the dude really irritated me and this episode is one of the reasons why.
Yeah, Tamaki and I have a love-hate relationship when I rewatch the show as an adult... I like the guy, but in some episodes he's a pretty bad dude.
I like your profile picture
Whenever tamaki was yelling and stuff I just never payed attention, I never really liked him lmaoo 😭😭
Same! When I rewatch the show I sometimes skip this episode just because it makes me so mad at Tamaki.
i always complained how they ganged up on her to make her feel bad and apologize when she had NO reason to.
Exactly! I literally got attacked online when I pointed out and got called a cis white feminazi guy only looking for attention.
@@taylornguyen640 dude I’m sorry. I’m disappointed with them but not surprised. Idiots always respond to people rightfully calling out sexism by calling them “feminazis”. I hate it here.
@@alyssapinon9670 Exactly! And it was other girls too, like do you guys not see the gas lighting and manipulation and how messed up it is. Also in the same comment thread, I got someone saying I should get c-virus all because they got offended by the truth.
@@taylornguyen640 omg they sound like they drank some “internalized misogyny” juice. You and Haruhi are literally the meme that goes “why are you booing me I’m right?” And wishing c virus on you wtf is wrong with people
Tamaki should've been the one getting scolded, not Haruhi.
Mori is just the best character here, why? He hasn’t done anything controversial and he loved people cause of who they are, plus he is loyal and honourable.
Oh yeah AND HE DOESNT SHOW ANY BIAS WITH HIS PRESTIGIOUS UPBRINGING AGAINST ANYONE.
Funfact mori was supposed to end up w haruhi but fans love tamakixharuhi soo much, the artist decided to go w fans choice. WE WOULD HAVE MORI AND HARUHI ENDING BUT NOOO. well not complaining much because i love tamaki also haha
@@minhawu7414 That makes me so sad
@@MichaelTruckticus don’t worry I’m with you! Tamaki is creepy imo
@@chaoticlady_fairy Tamaki very kinda sucks, I don't know why people wanted him w Haruji 😫 All he did was call himself her father and be weird
@@MichaelTruckticus they end up together in canon and I’m like ?! She’s over here blushing in mori’s arms and he actually knows her . Wasted potential . Mori x haruhi squad
FINALLY MORE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT EPISODE WAS SO SEXIST
RIGHTTT!! When I watched this years ago I thought the message was a bit weird, but I thought it was just a mistranslation or smth
wait what i thought everyone hated this episode
@@dihannazoldyck713 sexual harassment is funny to you??
@ちゃんナル Ew gtfo
@ちゃんナル ur part of that 💀
I'm a kyoya fan girl but this episode tho was just...ugh 🙄 and I agree 100% about with the lobelia girls
pls I was just starting to really like him then this shit happened 😐
@@lemonlover22 I just pretend this episode doesn't exist 🙈
Couldn’t agree more
They made the lobelia girls seem like antagonists but I actually really liked them
@@yonna9560 Same
how the episode should have gone:
haruhi- stands up for the girls and gets thrown off
tamaki- saves her and get angry bc how dare she blah blah blah
the rest of the host club- DEFENDS HER
the dinner- things are sour between tamaki and haruhi but TAMAKI APPOLOGIZES for being SEXIST
[KYOYA SCENE NEVER HAPPENS]
then we proceed to the last part where haruhi gets scared and clings onto tamaki, which should have been see as “even strong people get scared sometimes “ and not “haruhi is a weak little girl and here’s an example”
yea that was long srry this episode just makes me mad😭
You're just a random person chilling on YT but how come you can come up with a better story than the team of writers that worked on this ep...
yes yes i agree
You dropped this 👑
@@hugnboba it's probably just one mangaka but yes lmaoo
My take would be more like this:
•Tamaki does the same thing.
•The other Host Club members say to Haruhi in the dinner scene something along the lines of “Tamaki’s typical comical sexism aside, he has tiny bit of a point. We’re a club now, which means we should all be there to help each other no matter what.”.
•And in the end of the thunder scene Tamaki says something along “You don’t have to do things all alone anymore, I’ll...we’ll be there for you.”
God, growing up, I hated how they made her out to be weak just because she's a woman. My queen Haruhi didn't need no man to stand up for her and protect her.
Tamaki was worried , and he was 100% right she is freaking weak if Tamaki didn't jump and save her she would literally drown
@@kato-mp4478 that’s literally because they WROTE IT THAT WAY she’s not portrayed as weak in any other episodes and they literally didn’t need to write it that way. They could have instead written in so that she knew how to swim
They do this often in shoujo anime. They did the same thing in kaicho wa maid same and I hate that anime now. I used to live ouran till I watched this particular episode. This is disgusting
@@kato-mp4478 It doesn’t mean that he’s allowed to blame that on the fact that she is a girl.
BRO SAME AND THE FOMMENTS ARE LIKE “ooh daddy🥺” WTF??????
My immediate thought was "worse than the time kyoya basically tried to rape haruhi" OMG I FORGOT THAT WAS THIS EPISODE
He didn't try to, he tried to show her he physically could. Which sounds bad and is bad but they were basically playing up the overprotective angle. I don't think he was meant to be sympathetic in his actions at any rate, but you're meant to see it as he has good intentions but is being an ass about it.
@@ASHERUISE its better explained in the manga, still not great but, wayy
Better
Sexism is based. Transphobia is based, cope harder lol. It’s a fucking cartoon.
@@goldenboy8361 there seems to be a lot of hate in your heart. I hope you get better soon
@@goldenboy8361 how are they based? please do enlighten me :)
Is anyone else bugged at how they tried to test her for a fear of ghosts and it didn't work but in the Halloween episode she was scared?
Yes! Exactly?!?
We were SHOWN that haruhi wasn't scared of stupid props and ghosts. The only exception being Lightning. Yet She's made to be scared in that episode just to be made into a damsel in distress!. God its just so annoying. Another one is the Lobelia ep. We were shown repeatedly that Haruhi is a driven girl, Why would she just sit and stand in the stage waiting to be sexually assualted by a girl instead of protesting that instant. We know she won't care about the school girls opinions. Yet we get another damsel in distress movement. I love ouran but it had its streaks of sexism.
@@Pallavi_here true! that part in the lobelia episode confused me too. it felt like a different character.
So I was like 4 episodes in but now I think ima quit before I have to watch that.
I remember being so upset as a child that they tried to make her feel bad about stopping harassment. This episode was really misplaced, the characters were really out of character, and it goes against everything the previous episodes had Haruhi been constantly masculinized. This episode was really not it.
Sexism is based. Transphobia is based, cope harder lol. It’s a fucking cartoon.
Except they weren't trying to make her feel bad, they were trying to get her to understand that what she did was reckless and dangerous and that she should have asked them for help rather than going up against two males that were clearly bigger and stronger than her. I also thought that this was a really good episode in the fact that Haruhi was always masculinized and this episode just made everyone remember that Haruhi isn't a boy, she is a girl. And biologically she is physically weaker than boys are.
@@jaegerthedane3245 That shouldn't keep anyone from stopping harassment. I was more appalled that she had to apologize for doing the right thing.
@@goldenboy8361 bro chill
@@snethies no
I find that scene completely outside of Kyoya’s character. He’s always been an understanding character, good and mature, no sense ruining his character so smart. He is my favorite character so I am very sorry for this choice.
It wasn't really out of character though. All Kyoya wanted to do in that episode was scare Haruhi and have her understand Tamaki's point, because it was clear that they were getting nowhere by just talking. And even Haruhi understood it because she even said that Kyoya is actually a really good guy, and she knew that Kyoya would never try to hurt her.
But he's also dark and mysterious. I just see this episode as fan service. Realistically he lacks social skills. I also think it was to establish in the narrative that he isn't romantically interested in Haruhi. I can't remember if this was in the manga. But yeah I just think taking the characters seriously is a mistake lol the implied incest is a good indicator of that
@@missquinberly it was actually the opposite--it was to show that he WAS interested in her. And then he made a certain comment that hinted at this after leaving the room but he didn't want to get in the way of Tamaki's feelings for her
@@PGOuma
That makes his actions more disturbing because imagine if Kyoya wasn't joking.. 👀
So umm I'm just gonna say this right here: socially this is a pretty common perspective in Japan.... Hence my dad not wanting me to go back there (I'm half Japanese). I've grown up with my dad telling me "it doesn't matter how smart you are, they'll make you serve tea" cause gender roles are really set in place.
Is serving tea supposed to be a job for idiots?
@@ASHERUISE it’s a gender role for Japanese women, I have a half Japanese friend who talked about how she was shamed for being too masculine after living in aus for some years - she was bullied for not being “quiet, reserved and cute” - she told me abt how the guys were mainly told abt how they have to protect the “weak and meek” women who’s job is to stay at home, cook, clean and as the original commenter said; pour tea for their husbands and visitors.
@@caitieknott7675 I mean I guess how much that matters depends on how upset you get over microaggressions bc I don't think it impacts daily life to such a high extent (except the bullying that's hella lame).
It's nice you have dad that's awear of that problem.
Thier are alot of things japan still needs to inprove socially. About two years ago I remember reading a news story about how Tokyo university had caught rigging the test score of the female medical students to deny them entry. Legal action was taken by the students who where denied entry. So hopefully it gets better in the coming years.
@@ASHERUISE by serving tea, I'm not talking about at a restaurant. I'm talking about how instead of having an intern get coffee for everyone, one of the female employees is expected to do it
I actually started crying when Kyoya climbed on top of her, that was such an awful scene
Poor darling....
I remember watching this show with my mom and laughing at it with her and then we saw this and I never finished the episode and just skipped past it
That was so weird and out if character, wbere did that even come from??
@@mitsubachihachi9643 He is literally a cold character... You guys just don't acknowledge it fully.
cold doesn't need to involve literal SA 😭
i love ouran more than anything but i acknowledge how problematic it can be sometimes:(
Yep same
exactly and that’s one of the big problems with the fandom is people praising this show and acting like it’s the most unproblematic thing ever
It's hard to love ouran tbh. It's funny and entertaining (+ I love the aesthetics and roses), then the next scene is some bullcrap transphobia and/or sexism abt girls being weak.
Ed
@@hollyrowlands6943 yep
When they made the Lobellia girls have Nazi armbands, Kyoya “joking” about sexually assaulting Haruhi to prove to her that she cannot defend herself and needs a man, the transphobic slurs, and the subtle homophobia.
Mori-senpai is the only good man in the world 😩
The rest of the stuff reeeally didn't age well but I'm pretty sure the Lobellia girls do not have nazi armbands. Unless I'm missing something specific about theirs in particular, they just have armbands which are totally normal and innocuous. Armbands (usually red, idk if they're ever any other color) are used in Japan to indicate some sort of authority (like a class president or club leader)
Those are club armbands...
@@stellabell8640 they had the girls hail to a slightly changed swastika, and they were only really shown wearing the bands during that scene
i watched it on netflix and there were never slurs in the subtitles.
@@Bleckkeg778 You can be unoffended at something and still recognize aspects of homophobia. Literally in the video, Tamaki was going on a tirade about how lesbian relationships are absurd and hetero relationships are only proper. Which is played for laughs, but no one ever really challenges him on anything he says, its usually just circumstance that lands him being the butt of a joke. Not to mention the fetishization of "gay" relationships between 2 twin brothers and other classmates. There was use of transphobic slurs too, both in the dub and sub. Sub used the word "okama" which is pretty on par with "tranny".
And btw, i am trans and gay myself but I'm not really offended (not a lot personally bothers me tbh) but that doesnt mean i dont think there weren't hints of/underlying transphobia or homophobia, nor do i think that its ok that theyre in there. I actually really used to love this anime, i have the whole series on dvd. it just means i try and stay critical, especially of things that I like because it helps me understand things more.
They could’ve had it where it was an episode about sexism and have them all in the wrong until THEY understand why haruhi could stand up to people while being a woman but also have the club be like “we were wrong, but you don’t also have to do everything alone” and a have an actual deep and meaningful episode
Yeah, why not? Fight against to guys about double her size. That seems reasonable.
@@edtazrael you know there’s a way to make it clear she couldn’t do that without being sexist right?
📢📢📢
@@edtazrael you mean against being harassed not knowing what will happen? Yeah, totally a wiser choice
@@edtazrael ya have seem
To really fucked up
Am I right?
Initially Tamaki’s comment irked me. After reading the manga (which is a more complete story- 80+ chapters), I realized that the misogyny in the dialogue wasn’t the author’s point although Tamaki poorly mishandled the situation. In the manga, Tamaki says, “You didn’t call on us even though we were right there. Do you think a girl could take on 3 guys all alone?” The anime makes Tamaki double down on Haruhi being a weak girl when she pushes back while in the manga, he doesn’t. Neither Tamaki nor the group were mad that Haruhi stood up for those girls nor thought that she should know her place as “the weaker sex.” They were upset that she didn’t think about her friends’ concern for her safety nor even consider relying on them when things get difficult. They didn’t want her always diving into the deep end alone because they’re supposed to be a team. Hell, she was oblivious to their worry until they told her. That’s what she genuinely apologized for in both the english sub and manga not for being a weak woman. A crucial part of Haruhi’s arc in the manga is learning to trust and rely on her friends. Tamaki’s the opposite. From childhood, he desired to have a united family where they supported and relied on each other through hardships. That’s why he created the host club to build a family dynamic that he lacked. He likely felt hurt and thought that she didn’t feel the same. When Tamaki realized that Haruhi grew up facing fears and obstacles alone and that she wasn’t purposely trying to exclude them, he apologized. Honestly I felt this episode had more nuance than misogyny aside from Kyoya’s scene. No one was purely right nor wrong and it had nothing to do with Haruhi’s strength or gender. It was a case of Haruhi and Tamaki misunderstanding each other’s perspective and eventually coming to terms. Also in the manga, it’s clear that BOTH Haruhi and Tamaki were being childish and petty during dinner. I ain’t gonna lie I forgot how invested I once was with OHSHC 💀
Yes! I haven't read the manga, but this is exactly how i decided to interpret this episode. I never felt like Haruhi was apologizing for being women, just realizing that she can ask for help. And tamaki realizes why she never does--because that is how she grew up. The stuff with kyoya though, that definitely was out of character and very concerning.
i LOVE LOVE YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!!! honestly, ohshc is one of my favs EVER, it comforted 13 yo and it still comforts me now. though im not saying that it's perfect and that they never said fcking problematic stuff but you get my point lol 😭
I'm so glad someone made this video. A couple friends turned me onto this show a couple years back, and the Kyouya scene made me question whether I was watching the right show. They were both like "yeah, we like to forget about that episode." What the fuck, Ouran writers
It's so out of place it could belong in another show... echoing your words, what the fuck, Ouran...
I’ve always watched anime because friends want me to. I couldn’t watch anymore of this one after this episode. I hate it so much.
@@rubysparx Just watch Space Dandy instead. Highly rec'd
@@rubysparx wttff it isnt that bad, why is everyone so pressed, almost every good anime has retarded episodes, there is no way of going around that, honestly i didnt even remember this episode i just brushed it off cause it didnt give anything good to the plot
@@timonbubnic322 please don’t use the R word.
This honestly made me feel bad for Caitlin Glass and Michael Tatum having to read those lines. Like Michael is such a nice guy, respects wamen, and I hate that he had to read this as one of his most loved characters. And Caitlin is such a sweetheart, like honestly one of the nicest voice actors I've met. They both also give really good hugs.
You've MET THEM???
The irony being that Michael on multiple occasions has said the 'you can repay me with your body' is his favorite Kyouya line.
I actually met Vic mignogna at a convention once. Shook his hand and he was a really nice guy. Didn’t realize who he was until one of my friends who was with me told me after he left.
I have enjoyed the roles I’ve seen Caitlin Glass play. Haruhi, Natsume, and Kyoko.
w a m e n
I always have mixed feelings about Tamaki. He has a good heart but a lot of misogyny and I absolutely hate him for it. Honestly, I really wish she ended up with Hikaru. We get to see him slowly get over his possessiveness and there’s a good reason for why he’s so protective, and unlike Tamaki he has respect for her and her boundaries.
Saaaame. When I read the manga I was soo dissapointed that Hikaru didn't win even tho deep down I always knew it. He was my fav
yeah honestly hikaru has always been my favorite character (besides honey senpai)
Yeah totally! I feel like Tamaki wouldn’t even be a good partner for Haruhi. He’s always getting on her nerves and her father doesn’t like him for good reason. Not to mention the whole “calling himself Haruhi’s daddy” thing was just wrong
@@phoebemoon2796 omg yes! The fact he saw himself as her father figure and yet still crushed on her didn’t sit right with me at all. It just seemed predatory
also he is such a carrie but people dont hate on him nearly as much... like if a female blonde character openly mocked her friends like you'll be the gay supporting cast 👁️👄👁️ if he was a female he would be such spoiled girl who is completely clueless and selfishly thinks she is the main character(which is exactly how he is, he is kinda smillar to someone like rachel berry but again, these traits annoy people more on women then in men)
I felt so so sick after watching that episode. The blatant victim blaming throughout the whole episode absolutely disgusts me. Also the way they kept trying to make her wear a bikini to show her “womanly figure”- 🤢🤢
SAME
If they cared about Haruhi so much you'd think they'd get angry at Tamaki instead of manipulating her into apologizing to him
Kyoya was always my favorite character too, except for this scene. It was very dark and it ruined his character. I'm going to believe that scene didn't exist.
Yeah like
Even my younger self felt something was really off about kyoya in that scene ;-;
Yeah I pretend that scene isn't canon
Even though he's often portrayed as an asshole, the scene was still really out of place for him.
Mori senpai is the only man that deserves respect- he was quiet and nice 💁♀️ the man we want
Signing the we love mori petiton here:
Yes becayse when men are silent they deserve the most. Uhh.... okay...
@@frizzttymto the emphasis was also on the nice part lmao, a lot of people would prefer the type of guy who doesn't say buncha ignorant stuff over the ones who do
I liked Kaoru as well ✊🏼😔
@@PGOuma Kaoru was chill af 😔✊🏽
Lol hye
On one hand, I like that Haruhi learned that it’s ok to rely on others sometimes. On the other hand, I *really hate* how patronising they were to her and how they didn’t value her perspective on the situation just because ShE’s A gIrL.
Also, that scene with Kyoya mildly traumatised me...
THIIS. Thank you. It's cause she never relied on anyone and they wanted to know she could ask for help when she needed. It wasn't supposed to be a gender thing but the moral doesn't work because it's a reverse harem.
Except she didn't value their perspective either, not until the scene with Kyoya. They weren't trying to patronize her, they were trying to get her to understand that what she did was reckless and dangerous. Those two boys were clearly stronger and bigger than her and they could have seriously injured her. We, as women, need to understand that while we are strong and capable in our own rights, biologically, we just aren't physically stronger than males.
Finally someone same mindset as me. All of the characters are toxic actually, Mori is the lesser one.
@@jaegerthedane3245 except haruhi is literally the one who ends up apologizing to them at the end of the episode.
"We as women" dont need to understand anything lol. I'm not dumb, i know that i cant take a guy in a fight. Haruhi isnt ignorant of that fact either, im sure. She was wreckless but incredibly brave and selfless and should be commended for that. Not condescended to like a child and shamed for putting others above herself.
@@jaegerthedane3245 i as a woman have to disagree (not with all of it). this may be because i eat a lot of protein but majority of the women i'm friends with and/or just know, could take on many men. i mean, i knew a 5th grader who was 5'7, what did i expect? however this also cannot apply to all women (same thing with your comment, it can't apply to all women on either side). although yes we aren't stronger than them as a whole and/or biologically, we still can be. i just don't like that being thrown around. may just be me though.
another thing unrelated to this! i know many men who assume that since they're men they don't have to work out or have a good diet to be strong, but if you don't have to do that then i assure you that you can take on someone (of any gender or sex) who does.
I really wish you were on the writing crew for that ep 😭 I remember when I first watched that episode when everybody was telling Haruhi that she did something wrong I was *genuinely* confused. I was sitting and thinking like “what. What did she do??? Isn’t she the hero here!!!!!???”
Me too, I was siding with Haruhi the whole time and they were worried for her for the wrong reasons. 😒
BRUH THAT KYOYA SCENE FREAKED ME OUT WHEN I WAS 12-13
Sexism is based. Transphobia is based, cope harder lol. It’s a fucking cartoon.
@@goldenboy8361 based?!??! BASED ON WHAT 🤬🤬🤬⁉️⁉️ /j
@@goldenboy8361 also...where did that come from....ur wild...ur crazy!!!! Ur soooo crazy
@@goldenboy8361 tf do you mean, cope? do you understand the struggles that trans people face- it's not easy to cope with. a lot of people become s//icidal because of the struggles they have to go through. and this comment wasn't even about that. it was about how it was showing a HORRIBLE scene where kyoya was trying to show haruhi a 'lesson' by acting like he was going to r//pe her, which is absolutely disgusting and awful
@@orion-in4vv I hate to be the ''don't feed the troll'' person but I assure you anyone who says ''cope'' 100% doesn't actually care about what they're hating on. They don't care about sexism or transphobia lol, they just want attention.
“It’s natural that every anime has to have a beach episode”
*shows the beach scene from Another*
Me: I- yea we don’t talk about that-
*flash backs happen*
What happened
@@user-wh5fj6pj6m someone died because of a ship
@@user-wh5fj6pj6m well, in the beach episode of Another, there was a graphic death. after i finished that episode my brother jump scared me and i yelled so loud- bro that anime is scary ngl
Oh, that’s creepy
@@user-wh5fj6pj6m oh dang
this is why haruhi should have ended up with mori. he's the best non problematic not TERRIBLE character.
Mori was always my favorite 😩
I believe that Mori had actually been the original choice until the author changed it to Tamaki
mori was always the best choice no cap
OMG THIS, HE IS SUCH A NICE SHOT LIKE WTH I LOVE HIM SO MUCH
Yea it’s honestly cause he doesn’t say anything like ever he got like 3 words per episode 💀
I feel weird cause I never interpreted this episode this way, and never really had a problem with it until everyone in the fandom started talking about it.
I never really got the impression it was about gender? I know they say “you’re just a girl” so I figured that was part of it, but to me, it was more about Haruhi always being independent to a fault, which caused her to put herself in danger when she didn’t even have to. There was no reason she couldn’t have called the other club members to help when she saw the girls in trouble- NOT cause they are boys and she is a girl, but because there’s *6 of them and only 1 of her.*
When the boys were scolding her, I interpreted it as them being unreasonable but coming from a place of genuine concern for a friend who could have gotten seriously hurt.
Even though Haruhi decides she is going to apologize, I thought it was like “sorry I made you worry and I won’t be so reckless in the future.” Even then she never actually ends up having to apologize at all, so it doesn't seem like it's the opinion of the writers that she was in the wrong.
In fact, Tamaki apologizes for not understanding WHY she was so independent in the first place (because she had to be growing up). Yes, she is almost always the only competent one, but she’s still a *human being* so I don’t see why she isn’t allowed to have faults or fears, even something silly like thunder. I didn’t take it as _“See! Tamaki saved her from the lightning cause he is a big strong man!”_ but rather Tamaki being there for his friend when she needed it, and Haruhi allowing someone to protect her for once.
The fact that she was supposedly a “weak frail girl” and they are “big strong men” never occurred to me.
As for the Kyoya scene….yeah…..no…..didn’t like that………..
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks all this 😅
Is everyone just easy offended or something I never had a problem with this episode
The scene was random sure but I was like well that happened/ interesting way to teach something
Maybe I grew up in a more “sexist” viewing in having someone stronger help out.
THIS
More or less I have similar opinion with you. I've read the manga where it's even more obvious that they are worried about her though I get what the author and the characters try to tell, it did make me felt annoyed too toward them since she's still brave for doing what she did.
I read the comments in here and my thought was people get offended easily and forget about biology and reality. If a guy who doesn't know martial art, short and not really that strong against men who are obviously stronger than him can get defeated and hurted, what makes them think it wouldn't be worse if it's a girl with that same condition since a girl's body is less stronger than a man. That's like basic biology so it's understandable why Tamaki said what he said out of worry because for women, the chance it might not stop with just violence and might turn into SA isn't small. Irl, this can happen for real and have happened for real.
While understandable, Tamaki did annoy me with the way he talked to Haruhi then again I never like Tamaki and Kyoya.
I think the purpose of the episode was to show Haruhi that she can rely on others too, the scene when she's vulnerable and runs to Tamaki for help being the climax of the lesson.
But it was SO poorly executed that it ended up missinterpreting horribly, mostly because nobody explained WHY Haruhi was in the wrong, leaving it at "she's a weak woman"
This is why I believe that Haruhi shouldn't have ended up with anyone. They're all pretty toxic ngl
Edit: Nvm Mori is the only one who doesn't have any problems- still think Haruhi shouldn't have ended up with anyone tho, I mean- I she got into the school BECAUSE of her academic ability, so does someone who had to study hard to get into school REALLY have time for romance? Also, I just felt as if she was more of the, independent type? It seemed to me that she wasnt interested in romance and stuff.
Honey tho...
how is mori toxic
*some members of the host club are toxic
Honey kinda has a sweets addiction so... And didn't he choose sweets over his own brother?
@@jazminegarcia2678 I’ve seen some stuff on tik tok talking about how the manga has its fair share of weird stuff. But since I’ve never read it at all you can fact check me. But one thing a person said was mori having some feelings for honey
@@one_piece-nut2692 they’re cousins and honey is his MMA teacher. Mori just looks up to him and finds him endearing. Honey ended up with some other girl the anime never got to.
The episode where they all went to the beach and the two strangers sexually harassed her and some girls and SHE had to apologize made me want to curse out the writers. Not to mention they gave the attackers gifts which hurt me in a entirely new way. The show was at first my comfort show but seeing that episode triggered some bad memories from my past so i had to take a break from watching it. Panic attacks are a bitch (2 years late but in the wise words of Mile Morales "Einstein said time was relative, right? Maybe I'm not late. Maybe you guys are early.")
I’m pretty sure they gave the victims a gift not the attackers
@@vickywickyisckyficky4952 nope, I’ve watched the episode like three times. They clearly showed they gave the attackers flowers to apologize for her. And SHE had to pay for them
So I actually watched this scene a moment ago and it clearly says that he bought flowers to victims not abusers. Kyoya said that three bouquets were bought for girls and abusers were beaten by tweens nearly to death.
@@dotty3825 if the flowers where given to the victims why would she have to pay for themselves seeing as she was a victim herself and why would she be in the “wrong” in the first place. Giving the other girls the flowers would’ve thrown the entire messed up message if the episode off.
@@rantingsfromateenagerspers499 They bought them for girls to apologize because girls were looking forward to this trip and they didn't want to disappoint them. You can hear it yourself in this clip: ruclips.net/video/sYkMS07nq9U/видео.html
I feel like the only reason they added the infamous Kyoya scene was they saw a chance to push extra fanservice and unfortunately took it
Kinda pissed at myself because that scene made me watch the whole anime at first
Depressingly that wasn't a push for extra fan service, that was in the original manga. Honestly, the anime did us a favor and cut the scene shorter, since it takes up a whole 4 pages from start to finish and they cut out maybe a page's worth of it.
@@victoriawhitcomb6475 Yeah, it’s been a while since I’ve read the manga but I think that scene was worse there than in the anime.
@@victoriawhitcomb6475 Maybe the manga author was pushing for extra fan service when they wrote that part of the manga in the first place. This series is the type of manga genre which aims to have teenage girl aimed fan service after all.
It definitely felt like fanservice gone wrong/aged poorly because it was OOC for Kyoya to do something like that
The kyoya scene weirded child me out so much. To the point I theorised that maybe since he has all this power (police wise) he had no shame in acting that way. After all, who would believe Haruhi if she told the police? The police is under Kyoya’s control/ his family’s control.
It’s sad that child me tried to rationalise that scene so much that it ultimately made me believe he was always just a horrible person waiting for the moment to pounce.
" You're a weakling girl "
"Excuse me-"
*YOU SHOULD NEVER TOUCH A GIRL THAT WAY. THAT IS NOT OKAY 😡👎*
@Romanuel Dimitrov Yeah but this was a kids anime and not to mention she's so young to be touched that way in fact it's technically illegal
When I first watched this scene, I thought Kyoya was a twist villain, and Tamaki or the twins were gonna walk in on it and beat the shit out of him.
I would have enjoyed that so much it’s not funny
In the Kyoya scene, I was soooooo confused and disgusted at the same time. Even if I was young at that time, I was like- "KYOYA???? WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?"
Same. It still disgusts me and it makes me feel scared. And I’m 21 but when I first saw the anime I was 14.
I thought it was like “oh shoot he’s a villain now sick I can’t wait to see where this goes” and the next episode he’s just vibing like usual
*My wild guess:*
That was his weird and creepy attempt to scare her and win the bet in the episode.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 who wouldn't be scared of sexual harrassment goddamn... if that's true then that's sick lmao
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 but the bet was supposed to be quirky and fun. Sure literal sexual harassment would scare the shit out of a person but it's low key traumatizing and horrible.
I remember this episode made me mad because she apologizes. Sure she put herself in danger but it’s not like she threw herself off the cliff why is she being blamed? I was frustrated when they got mad but when she gave in and she was framed as wrong it was so ANNOYING
i hate that i had to dig through reviews to find mention of the horrible and questionable parts of this show so thank you
yea me too i was so mad that i couldn’t find any other videos like this
@@madeleine8770 literally the show had many misogynistic undertones
@@onaevolution yup and the romance and shouts genre STILL does. Any strong female lead has these same tropes in the series and always randomly decides she’s an airhead or clueless at times even though she’s otherwise depicted as smart and strong. I seek out strong female leads and have this happen EVERY TIME. Then I watched this video about when Isabelle was being designed for animal crossing.....and it connected all the dots because they creators out right admitted it was to make her more feminine and appealing. So basically they see being an airhead and naive as cute and feminine and that it has to be added to balance out a strong smart or otherwise independent female character....otherwise she’s too manly and unappealing. Japan is still so far behind in terms of gender roles and politics. It’s still legal to discriminate against women for pregnancy in the work place or even their husbands getting promotions at completely different firms because it’s assumed that if he has to move for work she will have to move and it’s too bothersome when female employees get married
Now I feel lucky that I didn't have to search for it, it was on my recommended 😂
@@yukilynx3526 lol same
My only thing with this is that, in the end, she said sorry for worrying you. That’s a common phrase in Japan that is expected when you do something that would make someone worried. That’s why she apologized, but I do agree that it was hella weird and sexist to guilt trip the victim into saying sorry cause she wasn’t “strong enough”
Sexism is based. Transphobia is based, cope harder lol. It’s a fucking cartoon.
@@goldenboy8361 you must struggle making friends
@@goldenboy8361 You responding to comments must be how you cope with your stupidity
@@chickenwings8575 I actually don’t
@@R-eza damn that’s original
Even me when I was 10 knew this was wrong
@weeby weeb and I’ve seen multiple people saying it’s hot but it’s not and his reasoning was to “teach her a lesson” because girls shouldn’t fight and stuff
I’ve seen this show from like 3 and half years ago , I was naive at that time , thinking that it was ‘hot , .but I finally came to understand how bad it was shown off
Same here, i got so mad when they guilt tripped her so she would apologize. She did absolutely nothing wrong
I was always on Haruhi's side when I was a kid, still AM
i think that what haruhi did was undeniably brave and the right thing to do but it was also incredibly dangerous 😔 she made the right decision and they should’ve recognized that but still show the lesson of her learning that she can rely on others
6:05 props to Haruhi tho. Kyoya was really expecting for her to start crying and get all submissive and Haruhi’s only response was: “Lmao you won’t :P” I can only imagine the adrenaline rushing through her body tryna stay calm 💀
yeah that was what i was thinking too when i first watched that scene
Yeah and then followed after with her saying he's a good guy😐
She trusts him.
She deescalated that situation like a boss.
@@ASHERUISE For some reason
I actually liked how Tamaki went to comfort Haruhi, especially seeing how Haruhi had to deal with things alone for most of her life. However, after watching everyone tell Haruhi that she shouldn't stand up for herself like that and how she needed to be protected, it didn't feel as nice as it would've if it was just a scene about Haruhi learning to rely on others.
it ruined kyoya for me and made me very uncomfortable with the supposed “message.” i wish this episode didn’t exist. i watched this for the first time around 13 and i’m 16 now. it made me uncomfortable then and still does.
yeah idk how so many people can completely overlook and excuse that scene, genuinely messed up
outta pocket
I also watched it when I was 13 and now I'm 16. I don't remember much of the show but ever time someone says they like kyoya i remember that awful scene😞
yeah ohshc is like glee, i notice more problematic stuff every time i rewatch
and they both bad problematic stuff to begin with rjcjdjfnd
I read the manga version of this whole scenario and it was better illustrated than this version. The rest of the hosts dont directly side with Tamaki on his reason to be worried. Instead of the whole "because she's a woman" reason, the rest of the hosts (Haruhi included) acknowledge that it was because shes petite and doesn't know self defense that could make her vulnerable. The Kyoya scene still happens but it doesn't feel as sexist or rapey like in the animation. He even tells her that acting the way she did was good, but that she shouldn't put her guard down. I feel as though the animation should've done something like the manga version instead of... This.
Also to note, Honey and Mori also seem confused as to why Tamaki reacted the way he did if he was just worried. During the whole thunderstorm scene, Tamaki also acknowledges that Haruhi has a "built in independence" and admits he was in the wrong (but still tells her that he'll be with her so she doesn't need to do crazy things).
So it's not only my hazy memory then haha. I feel like the manga potrayed better ( tbh the art and the jokes are generally better in the manga too ). I was an elementary school kid back then so I don't remember many details
I remember, even as a 12 year old child, curious about everything, the Kyoya scene and this episode in general made me cry and I was really uncomfortable even at that time, I didn't realise why, I was thinking poor Haruhi at that time, but now many years later, I just.. I'm just feeling so much anger regarding this.
I watched this when I was 12 and cried at the exact scene because I felt so uncomfortable and bad for Haruhi and just because she’s a women she’s weak
Sexism is based. Transphobia is based, cope harder lol. It’s a fucking cartoon.
@@goldenboy8361 they were 12- LMAO CAN YOU READ?
@@goldenboy8361 stop spamming,, it’s not cute dude
@@goldenboy8361 ruclips.net/video/lcGZRYftGVg/видео.html
I was so uncomfortable in this scene. It’s nice to see someone touching this subject. Usually rape culture is buried and it sickens me.
Thank you for making this. That episode alway annoyed me even as a kid I remember seeing her stand up to them and I was like YEAH HUDUHI and then they were all like no and I was so confused like what would have happened to those girls if she didn’t step in. It also made me hate kyoya for the rest of the show like the whole thing. Your suggestion were good I wish that is what the episode was
Thank you!!! Seeing comments from people who feel the same way makes me feel very encouraged and definitely made the video worth it.
Exactly, would the hosts have preferred if something worse happened to the girls?
Esp since Haruhi was the only reason the girls were safe.
The beach episode in particular really shows OHSHC’s age, and boy did it age.
Like spoiled milk for sure.
as a lesbian the adam and eve scene makes me HOWL 😭😭
😭😭😭 lmaooo
Sexism is based. Transphobia is based, cope harder lol. It’s a fucking cartoon.
@@goldenboy8361 1.She said it made her laugh.
2. The show goes out of its way to make fun of Tamaki.
3. The show made a mistake with making one of their morals sexist and unconfortable.
4. It's a PG-13 anime, calm the fuck down.
5. She's literally just reviewing an episode, like all critics tend to do.
6. You clearly didn't watch the video or really know what RUclips is, do you?
7. If you think sexism and transphobia is okay, you need to get the hell outta here right now :D
@@goldenboy8361
As a trans person, I agree, transphobia is dumb but it's kind of hard for us to cope because we are told we don't exist and other bullshit like that
BRUH SAME I'M BI AND I WAS LIKE ;-;
You have to admit that it was made in 2006, and we’ve made a lot of progress scense then.
exactly!
Yeah there’s a lot of flaws with Ouran but considering when it was made I can understand some of it
yeah, but i think what the problem is- that almost 15 years later, the show is still gaining popularity- and hardly anyone has brought up how problematic it is. i don't think it matters when it was made- bad views are bad views, they chose to create the manga into an anime- i was bourn only a year later and my great grandma and grandad have never thought like this. it's just disappointing how peeps let it slide then- and are still letting it slide
Also, we would have never progressed unless someone knew that it was wrong- that someone would have had their own opinion and made the world change, it's sad that Ouran wasn't part of it :(
Double also- i don't think we should be excusing it, it was transphobic and sexist- doesn't matter if it was expectable back then, it isn't now- so we need to bring that to attention (◍＞◡＜◍)⋈。✧♡
@@lalas9255 I agree I agree-just because some of the things in the show maybe explainable due to the time it was made that doesn’t mean it should be excused.
@@everythingz888 It's more of an explanation than a valid reason. I think the fact that it was made in Japan is also a reason for the views, they've become more progressive but are still behind for now.
I know Tamaki is being protective but he didn't have to say it like that
I agree..
Exactly, especially because tamaki is more concerned that a girl acted proactively and stepped in to do the right thing rather than tbe fact that Haruhi could've died or gotten hurt.
THE KOYOYA SCENE FUCKING TRAUMATIZED ME DUDE even if i was a little boy man i was so confused and horrified omg finally someone talks about it
Fr, I thought they were gonna praise her??? I was like, “alright, let’s go haruhi” and was so confused why they were upset
Ikr! I thought the same
when they were together in that room at the hotel I was like: “okay this isn’t that bad...” 👁👄👁
*kyoya turns down the lights*
Me: “okay... are they going to make out or sum...?-“
👁👄👁💧
“Maybe you could repay me... your body”
*pins Haduhi to the bed shirtless*
Me: 🕳👨🦯
I was so desperate for this to be like a nightmare scene that isn't real or for kyoya to be like "lol jk" (even though that is something you should NEVER joke about) because I wanted to keep on liking kyoya SO FREAKING BADLY
Best part of this epi: Haruhi's dress. And crab eating
Yes
@@sketx5 right! Like I’m trying to go from pescatarian to full vegetarian but seafood is my vice 😭
Downing crab legs in a fancy resort while wearing a pink frilly dress is goals for me
@@sketx5 yeah sameee
If you read the manga, that bedroom scene is MUCH WORSE from a snippet of what I've read.
TW: Molestation (mentioned)
He says: "I am a man so I can molest you at any time." & "As a woman, you'll never be able to push me off."
Given this manga is old (manga: 2003, anime: 2006) and this is from a Japanese author; I know why this episode is incredibly sexist. Japan is strict about gender roles, I am not sure if it has improved or not nowadays.
Also I would have told him he was nice to make him feel worse about what he did. 👀 To prevent him from ACTUALLY acting upon what he was threatening to do... he secretly wouldn't have wanted to ruin anything between the pair of them.
But honestly Haruhi, why did the creator make you so oblivious and accepting of your fates in these scenes? Do you really have no value for yourself in these circumstances? She is such a smart girl and then they decided to enforce toxic masculinity and feminity into the series.
Its just how these guys are; some are just that simple-minded and brainwashed to categorize all women as vulnerable. You can blame gender roles in Japan for that; their fathers probably forced them to believe they should always protect women since they are considered "weaklings".
Manga chapter?
I guess the director wanted to show that she CAN rely on people but the way they showed it 😔
Yeah, I think they were just worried for her, and the plot pushes the fact that she has been alone and doing things on her own all her life and they just wanted her to feel like she could rely on someone. It's not supposed to be a gender thing. But initially this scene bothers me too, some morals dont work because its a reverse harem.
You're right and thr narrative pushed the idea that Haruhi needs help amd protection because she's a girl and not the fac that people care about her and sometimes it's okay to ask for help
Thank you so much! I watched this episode and was instantly appalled at not only the sexism, but the lack of notice about it on the internet. I had watched this show only once a long time ago, and couldn’t remember anything being this sexist, but now that I’m watching it again I can’t believe it got this popular without the topic of the obvious sexism being brought up.
I'm so glad you feel the same way! I was kind of appalled to see how highly this particular episode is rated, and there's a lot of undiscussed sexism in this show in general. I still love it, but... it has some BIG issues. Thanks so much!!!!
Devil's advocate here, hello! This is a pretty hard topic to tackle. While I feel like I can agree with you in a lot of ways, I also feel compelled to give how I interpreted the episode on how it was presented.
I felt like the episode was specifically made to be a hard pill to swallow, everything was written to be hard for us to accept. You mention many times how are you supposed to agree with any of it, how the characters were written so one was usually right while the other usually wrong and suddenly it's switched, how a character we really like had suddenly changed to appear predatory. That is usually the reality. People can not be right all the time, and while you may be inclined to believe the person who's usually correct, one can't just push aside the opinion of the person who's usually wrong. Often times sexual assault is done by someone the person knows and trusts, and it turns out their trust in the perpetrator was misguided. I hate to see Kyoya in any light even remotely like that, but damn was it a great example of what could happen.
The scene about helping those other girls wasn't about how Haruhi shouldn't have stood up for someone because she's a girl, it's about provoking a pack of wild unruly men who are guaranteed stronger than her. Had she'd been known as a girl to them, they'd have tried to harass her the way they did the other girls. But since she appeared as a boy, they opted to nearly kill her instead. The truly hard part about it is they would have succeeded. Haruhi could not fight back, this can't always be helped. She was going to die. It's not an unusual reaction for people who cared about her to have been as stressed about it as they were. I wholeheartedly agree that she did the right thing, and if she had done nothing in that moment, who knows how a situation like that could've gone in reality. But it doesn't mean that one should dismiss the way her friends felt about her almost losing her life. It's not something everyone can simply brush off, and a lot of times, trauma doesn't just apply to the person who experienced the event first hand. Had Tamaki not been there and they actually lost her, no one would've come back from that, and it's a scary thought to have.
And as I was advocating earlier about Kyoya's choice of action, I really wish it didn't come to that. Young me definitely thought it was just a fan service thing like a lot of other people mentioned in the comment section, but watching it now does make me pretty uncomfortable. Especially because, like you, he was a favorite (these days it's Mori but shh don't tell them). But as I had said, I think that was point, in that he was someone we trusted and didn't expect it from, while simultaneously being the only one who would feel this was the best way for the message to be conveyed. I mean, she definitely didn't fight back there cause she knew he wouldn't do it, but there's no denying he's still stronger. You mentioned that you originally thought the lesson was going to be the boys (during the "defending the girls" aftermath) telling her that it was dangerous and that she should get help when things like that happen, but it went with the direction it had gone instead... I think that was still the lesson. Only it was told in a more "show don't tell" style because it's still the lesson I walked away with, personally. So rather than saying it straight out, there was examples and emotions running high through out the episode.
Biggest thing I'd change is that while I was fine with her apologizing because she didn't understand the magnitude of their feelings in the beginning, I kinda wish they'd have said sorry, too. That they could've said it wasn't about them doubting her character, and that Haruhi was brave for what she did, but explaining why they felt the way they did... or rather, going into detail into how Tamaki was behaving. There was two sides to every story and it feels almost too easy to take Haruhi's side since she's our main character, and we're women too. I'd love if they had talked more about the way the boys reacted.
Exactly! I almost thought I watched a different show seeing other commets, lol... Also, I feel like all the Tamaki said about "you're a girl, you're weak" is just normal for HIM to say.
Maybe he's more of a conservative person. I mean, only men(except for Haruhi, but it was an accident) work in his host club, and Tamaki himself acts like a typical prince while at work. Of course, it's not good for anyone to see the world in that way, but he has a right to have his own opinion. I can't remember anyone ever agreeing with him in a "yes, all the girls are just weak" way except for his clients(who obviously like him enough), so I think it's good for him to have flaws as a character. He's not perfect.
OR maybe he's just bad at expressing himself. He can't say "Haruhi, I love/care for you/I'm jealous", he says thousands of "daddy wants.." instead.
OR it is also a translation/my memory problem, because I remember host club members(not Tamaki) directly saying, that they just worried for her, that she was alone against a bunch of dangerous men and it was childish for her to think, that they didn't care.
Thank you 😭
I WIPED CLEAN THE KYOUYA SCENE FROM MY BRAIN OMFG
Lmao I think they were trying to go down the like “you don’t have to do things alone” but then someone in the writing process fucked something up
their fetish came out at the worst possible time :c
EXACTY WHAT I WAS THINKING FKFNCKC
Yeah I think they were trying to give the message "you don't have to do things alone", but it came out as "you shouldn't do things alone, you can't do things alone".
The author fucked it up, this episode was in the manga
Haruhi’s dad still remains the most amazing anime dad 💯
even as a child i was so scared of the scene where kyoya basically harrassed haruhi because i didnt understand why he did that, and i felt really grossed out at the time
this is why i think ouran needs a reboot and not a second season 💀
Do it like FMA. Since now they have all the manga out, they can kinda rewrite the storyline to fit the manga more and everything, and get rid of this monstrosity.
it needs the fruits baskets treatment for sure
@@itme3262 I've been praying for this ever since the Fruits Basket reboot came out. Ouran could do SO WELL if it got a modern redo
Ouran definitely shows how it's written by a Japanese person not of newer generations. The gender stereotypes are pretty obvious even if I barely noticed any slurs while watching the sub version. Plus I've always been kind of not too pleased with Tamaki being with Haruhi. He's obsessed with the idea of Haruhi acting like a 'classic female'. However I can see how to some certain people, a possessive male lead is appealing. It's still the same in stuff like manhwa, where you'd like find a dark haired stotic male lead who acts possessively and everyone just goes 'he's so hot-'.
I still want the animation/art style to stay the same though- it's my favorite part it's so unique like please don't try make it HD violet evergarden esk I want the super bold lines pleeeeaassseee
The fact that kyoya, the one with an actual brain (aside from haruhi) in that whole damn club, would say such a thing. My guy said that she could pay her debt with her body. Kyoya, wtf-
Never watched the show but this episode is hell
@@WisteriaWaves you can watch the show i personally liked it...just skip this shitty episode
I'm not defending this scene bc it made me super uncomfortable for reasons, but I will say Kyoka didn't mean anything he said. He was trying to scare her into seeing how quickly things could have turned south at the beach (in the hosts' opinions, anyway)
THATS THE TEA RIGHT THERE MY G O D
Always glad to see someone who agrees! Can't believe this ep is so highly rated.
yeah, when i rewatched ouran just recently i was very much reminded of many of the problematic tropes that it delves into! rewatching the show, i made the connection of haruhi being possibly non-binary! since the beginning of the show, she didn’t necessarily feel the need to fit herself within the constraints of being solely feminine or masculine. in fact, i think there were plenty of times where she referred to her self as female just *biologically!* but tamaki was super insistent on having her be more feminine and girly, which also left a sour taste in my mouth.
and then there was episodes with haruhi’s father, who has stated that they are bisexual and who i perceived as either a transwomen or also non-binary!
in a way, this show had some pretty progressive ideas for its time, but the way it was dealt with was very OF its time.
things like forcing femininity on haruhi, calling haruhi’s father an offensive term, and being incredibly sexist in the beach episode reminded me of the time it was made, where it was made, and who it was made by!
we obviously should not simply accept those kinds of messages that are weaved inside all of the good that this show offers, but we definitely should recognize that this was made around 15 years ago by japanese people for a japanese audience who probably had very different progressive views at the time.
but i’m glad that we can recognize and criticize the shows flaws, while still appreciating the work as a whole :)
True
That and how the show kind of stereotypes lesbians as men hating feminazis who want boys to perish
Haruhi's dad is canonicaly a cross dresser/transvestite. He's one of my favorites honestly. A little sad when i heard about the slur in dub and the short stick he got..
That whole episode made me feel uncomfortable and when she apologized for doing nothing wrong made me confused and angry. I thought the boys might apologize for being idiots but nope.
As being stated by few here, it is just a common phrase in Japan for making someone extremely worried.
Same, and I’m saying this from a make’s pov
@@MrsCutieeCake For some reason
It's ironic how she had to apologize when she's the only reasonable character in this episode and she had no reason to apologize
i really did like kyoya but then that episode happened...i decided to like mori cause i realized whenever the guys open their mouth i was waiting for something to go wrong💀 but with him i didn’t even have to worry about him opening his mouth half the time-💀
Mori is probably the only character that makes sense
Moris chillin
Mori do be kinda the best man there ✋😔
Agree
this is exactly why Mori is my favorite, i just know that if you left me alone in a room with him, i would feel safe and comfortable
this is why mori is the best character!! he had zero scenes therefore no attempts to ruin a perfectly fine character
What kills me about “The Sun, the Sea, and the Host Club” is that the first 2/3 were SO GOOD. That episode was actually the first one I was told about when asking me to watch the show, and then the first half was so strong and then it just… tanked.
I take this ep as a weird fever dream of Tamaki's.
let’s just pretend that this episode never existed 💖
Yes.
I try to cope with the episode by telling myself the rest of the boys were more worried by her not remembering they're a team and are just still too caught up in the sexism they were raised with to express it better...but no, no it's bad. I'd never really put together before how much the fear of thunderstorms is used as a plot device rather than a way to round out her character. Thank you for this essay.
God I watched ohshc for the first time when I was like 14. That scene with Kyoya scarred the fuck out of me 😭😭 not only that but when Haruhi is like "wow Kyoya senpai you're a really nice person" I was horrified. A piece of my soul died that day lmaoo
Im legitimately choosing to forget this episode exists. *it isnt part of the canon universe it is simply a figment of our collective imaginations*
I buried this episode so far in the back of my subconscious that it took a long while to even remember it (the synopsis in the vid helped too).
i had originally had the perception that tamaki was angry at haruhi because she was oblivious at how putting herself in danger could worry the other host club members. when tamaki gets mad haruhi is confused because she hasn't done anything to directly hurt him as he was not pushed into the water. what she does not consider is that the other host members care about her and thus her not being safe troubles them; she assumes that she only hurts others through an affect on their personal comfort and not through herself. later on with the lightning scene it is made apparent that haruhi has spent most of her childhood alone and therefore has been raised to handle things herself, alone, without asking for the help of others. alongside this no one is there to sympathise with her fears, leading her to not consider that her suffering may trouble those who care for her. this makes tamaki realise why she doesn't understand that the other host club memebers were worried and why she interfered without asking for help. i do strongly agree that this episode had themes and messages that were demeaning in many ways and that that haruhi should have been more strongly portrayed as the right. just wanted to share how i initially perceived it D:
+ although tamaki was worried his justification of it being because that haruhi is 'just a girl' is complete bullshit and him and kyoya had no right to impose those thoughts on her when she was completely in the right :3
This!
yeah exactly! this is what i thought they meant too. because tamaki feels like her “father” so to protect her not because she’s a girl and incapable.
I always thought this ep was ment to let haruhi realize that she can depend on others.
Yeah same when I watched this show for the first time when I was younger thats how I perceived it, re-watching it when I was older tho... well I think I got the intended message and I did not enjoy it
I think they had good intentions while thinking of the general idea for this episode, as it would have take little touches here and there, especially dialogues, plus elimination of the kyoya scene, to make this a good episode in terms of message and character development. Something went wrong though.
Especially if you consider that the theme "you can't handle everything alone. Let us friends help you", that would seem more that logical given the first part of the episode, implies that haruhi so far has been shown as a capable, independent person. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense to have this as a theme! So basically they are admitting that they meant haruhi's as a strong character in the very act of planning an episode which seems to show us that she's not "invincible" (she has fears, che cannot handle anything on her own. But not because she's a girl, but because nobody can!), Something we had to be convinced of because it went against our perception of the character!
The concept to mecould have made sense... But it should have been about haruhi has a person who's not used to have friends and people who can support her rather then about haruhi as a girl who tries to rebel against her nature and be independent.
the way i just watched this and was so disturbed and literally needed to see if someone was going to talk about this.
Literally!! I HATE IT SO MUCH
ok but no one talks about how during the ocean scene tamaki swims downward 😭
bruh i noticed that the first time and it confused me so much
Yeah like how are you gonna scold Haruhi when you don’t even know which way is up. Think, Tamaki, think!
I was like BRO YOU GETTING MAD AT HER FOR DEFENDING YOUR GUESTS AND CONCERNED FOR HER SAFETY BUT YOU PUT HER IN MORE DANGER
LITERALLY
Like how are you going to get mad at her for protecting your guests when you couldn't swim the right way if her life depended on it 😂
At least I can live in solace knowing we won’t get harassed for being “feminazis” for critiquing this episode because Ouran is targeted towards women
i don’t remember them being sexist WHAT. my child brain did NOT process that lmao. All this time i thought they were just worried about her not knowing martial arts or something?! not because she was a girl Owksalksms
same... i rewatched it and i’m like 😃... ouran will always be a huge part of my childhood but that is not it
I just thought it was a way to introduce her fear of lightning lol (also Kyoya “fan service” ofc)
People make a big deal out of everything:/
@@pan1300 Go sit down kid, this is not alright
They were angry at her because she's a girl and less with the fact thar she doesn't know martial arts
that kyouya scene made me so uncomfortable and scared as a child and even now it still bothers me a lot
Sexism is based. Transphobia is based, cope harder lol. It’s a fucking cartoon.
@@goldenboy8361 Shut up
@@chenmae9747 no, idiot
@@goldenboy8361 Please idiot? I'm crying so hard right now. At least I'm not copy and pasting the same thing on people's comments
@@chenmae9747 are y’all done complaining yet
As a Japanese person I have to admit Ouran Hostclub is an awful sexist show. Unfortunately nobody is discussing about it, and I feel people in Japan (since I understand both) seem indifferent towards these issues.
Nah, it’s a fine show. It’s just that this episode sucked.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 Honestly, I don’t enjoy the show in my opinion because the patronising gets so focused in a lot of these episodes and it just overshadows the humor in the end anD SPEAKING OF THE END THE SHIP IS A TRASH
@@chopstickingstylus I watch the show for its humor tbh i found it hilarious but yeah this episode and the ship doesn't make any sense
Dude that episode made me so uncomfortable, I’m so glad this wasn’t just me that was made so uncomfortable and angry
Sexism is based. Transphobia is based, cope harder lol. It’s a fucking cartoon.
@@goldenboy8361 plizz stfu
@@thatnerd7351 what if I didn’t tho
@@goldenboy8361 nonody gives a shit about a shitty opinion
@@thatnerd7351 then why are you commenting