As a girl, the reason Haruhi was appealing was not because she was "not like other girls" but was because she was realistic and relatable. She was the most realistic and most sane person there, especially considering that all the other girls in the show were an intentional parody of what people think girls are like.
if you wonder who even likes Tamaki the answer is bisexual top women who are kinda into brats. also he comes across much more likable in the subbed version for the reasons you mentioned
@@Coffee_Cakesso surprise twist: that accidentally makes Tamaki's romance archetype THE RIVAL. Great vid btw! Loved it! I'm so glad hazel recommended it!
The phrase "fanservise jumpscare" is genius. I remember being like 12, watching that ep and being absolutely bewildered by the scene. I feel so seen and validated all of a sudden lol
While I love *most* of the Ouran High anime... Tamaki is much better in the manga~ Also, it takes a long time for the Manga to show who Haruhi would end up with, giving her scenes with most of the cast! My favorite part of the Manga, however, is on their 3rd spring festival, the author writes an apology letter to the reader basically reading "I know it doesn't make sense timewise, but I love these characters in this set of grades, so we are going around again!"
@@HartxStarr Yup, Honey and Mori are Seniors, and if the year advanced, she would have to write those two out of the series... so, they basically relived the same year many times over (but without any sort of restarting, and no new group of students coming in)... kinda like if your Freshman year of HS took 4 years instead of 1 year~ It was basically written as a "don't worry about it" timeline xD
@@HartxStarr The kinda timeline the Simpsons or South Park has... time passes, everyone acknowledges that time passes, some things chance permanently, but nobody ages or advances in grade
Not to be the Tamaki defense force I think he def has some issues, but I think similar to Haruhi, Tamaki is the person who brought everyone together and actually listened to and realized their problems. And made attempts to help them. Which is why much of the boys tend to side with him even when he’s wrong.
My favorite line has got to be Kyoya's: "I just don't think I'm supporting cast, homosexual or otherwise." Idk there's just something about it. Probably that he just brushes off the whole gay statement in favor of the "this bitch seriously just called me a side character. i do all the work for this club and THIS is what i get"
fun fact, haruhi was apparently confirmed by the creators to be nonbinary. which makes sense considering how often she repeats that she doesn't care about gender nor what people refer to them as. like in the first episode they literally say "i'm biologically a female but idc", fucking iconic.
@@lokylong28 Um Haruhi says things like "I don't care about gender or how I'm perceived by others but that isn't necessarily nonbinary rep. I have much the same thought process but I don't consider myself as non binary. Gender non conforming doesnt always equal nonbinary. You are free to interpretation but to say its cannon or intentional (without a source of the creator doing so) is just inaccurate and misleading. Honestly there's more clear language in the series that Haruhi could be Bi/Pan than identifies as nonbinary. I've read a few of the creators interviews recently trying to find the source of the Mori rumor and when asked about these topics it doesnt seem to have been something she intentionally did but is happy that others found themselves in Haruhi and the rest of the cast as she felt the series was about kindness. I'm just saying a headcannon or interpretation is fine and I won't argue that Haruhi helped a lot of people in understanding themselves but to claim something is cannon or was the creators intent without sourcing is something we should avoid doing. If there is a sourced interview that I haven't found though I'd like to see it but my point still stand that we should be sourcing statements like these and not assuming a creators intent especially when it comes to the subject of representation.
I don't think using the "t" word was actually INTENDED to be a slur by Tamaki. Which could just means someone in the translation process REALLY missed the ball, and then everyone after that dropped it too. Or maybe a higher up who didn't know what the hell they were talking about changed the script. Either way, I don't think Tamaki actually meant it to be rude anymore than he meant to be that insulting using the phrase commoner. He's just an idiot. Either way, it did not age well.
Yea the Japanese word used is closer to cross dresser or drag. It’s a colloquial term so I can see the attempt at trying to be more casual without understanding the meaning of the word. The word they use isn’t even the one used for transgender. It really is just a man who cross dresses. While some people dislike this term especially used by those outside the community, it is not a slur like the “t” word is and the push back is mostly mislabeling and pushing people that don’t fit this label like actual trans women and men who likes to wear certain clothes/accessories typically reserved for not necessarily as crossdressing but more from a aesthetic, fashion or others reasons. Mostly it’s used as people who do crossdressing as a hobby or performative crossdressing similar to drag. I am Japanese and grew up in the US so I understand what these both mean culturally. I watched the series in Japanese with English subtitles and was surprised to see this translation too.
My thoughts exactly, I never got the impression tamaki was trying to be rude or insulting, it always came across like ignorance of how the term is used like when they visit Haruhi at her apartment and when she says "when was the last time we bought milk" to her its we don't use it often so do we have any to tamachan it was "I'm so poor I can't afford to have this common item except for rare occasions" like his whole character is that he's not aware of the world
Eh. This show was translated before the marriage equality fight took off in the US. Back then "gay" was used to mean "stupid". Funimation is also based in Texas so there's that. The casual transphobia was probably intentional.
hazel thank you so much for directing your followers to this video. the clip at 12:38 made me laugh so hard i nearly choked to death on a pretzel. 10/10 amazing recommendation
I've only watched the anime too and I'm surprised to see that people dislike Tamaki, as he's my absolute favorite with Haruhi as a close second. Though he was initially annoying I quickly warmed up to him after seeing how... genuine he is as a person. He has a lot of flaws and his behavior often comes from a place of privilege, but he's a great example of how people aren't one-dimensional and how anyone can be kind. He's always the first character to jump up and help someone in need, sometimes even without considering himself first. Despite his antics he's a very selfless character who I feel is the heart of this group. Ouran's greatest strength in my opinion is how fairly it treats its characters, how each character grows and learns from each other, including Haruhi's growth because of the Host Club. It's a story about all of them widening their perspectives and overcoming prejudice on both sides. Also, I think Tamaki is wonderful for her, as they're essentially the embodiment of this message, and despite acting obnoxious when they're goofing around he's the one person in the Host Club who would put Haruhi's well-being and happiness even before his own in a heartbeat.
@@amberrousseau1517 I think he's referring to the use of "tranny" incredibly often by Tamaki. I thought that word only became considered a slur in recent years, but to be honest I'm really too young to have much knowledge on the LGBT community and what was and wasn't acceptable when Ouran came out.
@@amberrousseau1517 but yes, I am I bit confused since he seemed to state they didn't use those in the sub. I guess the dub is still technically supposed to be an accurate representation of Tamaki
@@beryl5761 In the English translation of the manga, Tamaki doesn't use the term "tranny" at all from my quick skim through of the scenes where he had said the term in the anime English dub. He only refers to Haruhi's dad and her dad's friend as crossdressers. Personally, I'll put a manga's representation of their characters over any anime, dub, or sub since it's normally more accurate to what the author had intended. Although, on the first page of volume 4, Ranka's workplace is referred to as a "tranny bar" it's done by the narrator, not a character from what I can tell but it is the only time I had seen the term in the series (but I am currently missing volumes 7, 11, and 18 but hope to get them someday). In the end, I think the use of the term is the fault of whoever wrote the script for Tamaki's English voice actor and not the character himself. Personally, I have mixed feelings about Tamaki, sometimes I thought he was funny other times I thought he was annoying or weird. When it came to the boys, I liked the twins the best with Kaoru as my favorite.
Tamaki appeals to me as a certified himbo-enjoyer, something about a man who everyone can tell is in love whilst he himself is oblivious just does it for me. I also think there was an element of not "I can fix him", but "I can help him"; I think the former can only really apply in cases where the character is genuinely toxic, which I don't think Tamaki is (if you don't count the dub transphobia). Like the guy is just traumatised as hell, and has dealt with the separation from his mother by becoming incredibly protective of the people he cares about to the point of self-sacrifice. For context, the next host that appeals to me most is Mori, for similar reasons. While child-me did also enjoy Hikaru's whole romance subplot, his selfish, immature side in the anime had to lose out to the selflessness Tamaki displayed repeatedly. I could dismiss some of Tamaki's stubborn notions of "chivalry" on the basis that those are just his misguided attempts to protect those around him. For not having a focused backstory episode like the twins and Kyoya got, we get so much characterisation of Tamaki purely based on how he interacts with the other hosts. I generally have a tendency to like characters who think they don't deserve much, especially in romance stories where the other person helps them realise that they deserve happiness - in Ouran both Tamaki and Haruhi do this for each other. Maybe a little projection on my part, idk. I second the suggestion to watch Kamisama Kiss (although I've only ever watched it in sub, can't comment on the quality of the dub). If you're interested in checking out a shoujo classic, definitely try (in sub if you can, the dub is not great) Kare Kano, a genuine classic which was directed by motherfucking Hideaki Anno of all people (and it shows).
@@zk5228 I grew up with the dub and didn't watch the sub until very recently, and I still felt this way about Tamaki, though I just have a very forgiving disposition in general so maybe I was willing to let more slide than most would. Also I first watched Ouran when I was like 12 back in 2009 so awareness about certain social justice issues hadn't really reached me yet.
You never spoke about Ritsu Kasanoda and his family of gang members and how he was open to the idea of being bi and his whole group/family being supportive. I think that is a major point as well- 'cause yes it was Haruhi he had a crush on but he was so willing to explore it and his supportive group were there with him on that journey. It was so sweet and one of the reasons Kasanoda (and Kaoru) is one of my faves.
I just need this anime to get the Fruits Basket treatment and for most of the manga to be made into an anime… without the problematic things of course.
I was in the Ouran TRENCHES in 2012--it was one of the first anime I ever looked up fanfic for (all Tamaki/Kyoya or amorphous poly romance naturally)--so I really enjoyed this video! Thanks for providing fun and thoughtful analysis of one of my favorite messy early 2000s shojo series. Loved the discussion of geikomi and Maison De M too!
I'm pretty sure the reason Mori and Honey never get together is because it's implied they're cousins, both in the manga and in the anime it's mentioned that for centuries Mori's family served the Haninozukas. The families got merged by marriage but Mori still serves honey, Tamaki says it's "In Mori's blood". There's also a bonus at the end of one of the mangas where Hatori draws things that could never happen (I think in volume 2 or 3) and one of them is Mori and Honey falling in love, which implied that they were never going to be together pretty early on :( although I do wish they would've just been dating instead or something, Mori was always my favorite
they are canonically cousins although very distantly related blood-wise but if they did end up together it's gonna be a huge scandle so i think how they ended up is better
One thing Id say is that Tamaki's dad absolutely adores him. I dont think the anime really paints that picture but its tackled in the manga in depth. Its the grandmother who was the problem. But ur joke about Tamakis dad made me internally chuckle.
I think part of the repeated slur issue is that said word was not widely recognized as a slur by general society at the time and was used more for "Transvestite". Just memories from the old people for context as to why it was allowed.
Was coming to say this too. It's a slur now (and still had some nasty undertones in that era I won't make excuses for it) but it was a more wildly used thing in 2006, but I definitely remember watching Ouran when it first came out (I was a young teen) and it wasn't as big a deal (at least in the area where I grew up).
Mori and Honey are literal cousins tho... they are very close because Mori it's there to protect him, they were raised like that, it's literally in the anime
Honestly for me this show was very formative for me as a 19 year old who would realize that she was a girl for another 7 years. So much so that I completely forgot about all the really problematic shit in it and just felt such a kinship with the main character. Doesn’t excuse any of that in the slightest and glossing over it was probably more of a symptom of my half cooked egg brain that was compensating with axe body spay because maybe that would make me a real man, but I do remember it with fondness.
" glossing over it was probably more of a symptom of my half cooked egg brain" oh yeah as a trans guy i think i did the exact same thing. i didn't remember the bad parts because i was probably too busy just sitting in awe at Haruhi and the gender of it all. egg brain solidarity
Tamaki deserved better than Vic Mcdingdong. Tamaki in the manga is an airheaded boy with good intentions, who grows as the series progresses, and Vic's take on him killed the dub for me (no matter how great Caitlin Glass's Haruhi was)
@@bemiatto67 it's a long story, but the nutshell version is he denied a character was gay falsely because of his own queer phobia. He spoke on behalf of clamp claiming a known queer character was straight was he 'doesn't play gay characters'
Me: “wow, what a well made nuanced video on such a wild subgenre of anime and what it actually means to people and it’s intent” Also me: “hmmmmm game full of big bara guys. good.”
I watched Ouran back in 2012 before I had realized my own queerness and going back to it last year felt exactly like you described. Surprisingly ahead of its time, extremely uncomfortable at times, but overall like a warm, comforting hug in a media landscape that's often hard to relate to. Didn't see this ending on a segment about bara, but I'm so glad it went there. Niche queer hentai has seen me grow from adolescent to adulthood (now with expendable income to spend unwisely) and it so rarely gets talked about this lovingly. Definitely binge watching the rest of this channel now :D
I had a bootleg DVD of Ouran which used the Japanese dub with terribly translated subtitles. Despite this, I still vibed with this show during my young teenage years, and it was perhaps my first exposure to "gay" media. It helped me be okay with liking more feminine things, and I'll always appreciate that.
Haruhi helped me through gender dysphoria in a way I didn't expect. I thought my distance from ultra-femme made me agender or something but really I'm just me. I'm a girl but honestly it doesn't matter to me how I'm perceived. If someone uses masculine or feminine or nb pronouns for me, they all feel fine. It made me comfortable being and identifying as a girl even if I didn't always feel like I fit in with what I knew to be a "girl". I get to define what that is for me. Idk. I just really loved Ouran and I'm glad I watched it at the time I did.
the way haruhi talked about thier gender geninuely made me realize i was trans. like i had never seen a character be so careless about thier gender before, and especially seein a 'girl' character dress as a boy and not care how they're seen, made it especially resonate with me cause at the time i thought i was a girl. haruhis character means a lot to me they rlly made me actually think about how i feel about my gender, i related to them a lot. but yea saying that i dont think i could feel comfortable rewatching the show ghdjfj and i did not know they used the t slur in the dub wtf i watched the sub, i think tamaki was a least a little more likeable in the sub but yea he is annoying ghjd
Ok listen up. I don’t know about men, but every girl I know starts off HATING Tamaki, like you, but you end up totally falling in love with him. I don’t know how to explain it but he’s just so amazing…
Ouran fangirl here, can confirm. Tbh I don't think I ever really had a crush on Tamaki but I absolutely adore the hell out of his character. I find him very relatable and he inspires me to always try to help others, listen to them and make them happy. Because that's what he founded the host club on.
I'm glad I only watched the sub of Ouran and didn't have to listen to my lovely bimbo (he's not beefy enough by a longshot to be a himbo) repeatedly say a slur. Yikes. (He is kind of insufferable, I don't disagree with your assessment of him entirely. But I found him fun. Shipped him with Kyoya. Sounds like I might have not liked him at all if I saw the dub version of him, though.)
Rewatching Ouran for the first time since it came out back in 2017 with my girlfriend and getting smacked in the face by the transphobia was a real shock. I had completely forgotten it was there because I didn't see it as what it was as a closeted teenager.
Same I saw it when I was like 13 or smth and I definitely remember the show through rose coloured lenses. Didn’t realize that until I went back and watched some scenes after mentioning that I love it to a friend and them saying yeah “it’s nostalgic but kinda yikes sometimes” lol
Yeah… the dubbed version of Tameki does him dirty. I think you can chalk up most of that to 2000 era scripts English translation. I mean, just a few years before this came out, they made Sailor Neptune and Sailor Saturn cousins in the English dub and didn’t really cut the clearly romantic scenes. I admittedly can’t read Japanese but I don’t remember the English version of the manga had him using slurs
I FEEL YOU WHEN YOU SAID YOU WEREN’T EXPECTING SLURS 😭😭 I LITERALLY HAD TO REPLAY IT TO MAKE SURE I HEARD CORRECTLY…Honestly, I don’t think it was intended for Tamaki to be a transphobic prick. Back then the t slur wasn’t really considered a slur to allocishets and was just “slang” to refer to trans people (I mean derogatory slang is like.. the definition of a slur but still). It’s a comedy anime so it’s kinda what I’d expect for at the time to just use a quick and (again at the time for some) loose term like that for comedic affect. Yeah in hindsight I do find it extremely odd that an anime that talks so much about gender and and gender expression actually used that, but to the people translating and making the dub they probably weren’t as interested in it as the creator was. Coupled with the fact that the slur g*psy was used and Haruhi’s father called himself the t slur too, I think it’s entirely on the English translators. Also, as a Tamaki lover I wanted to explain why in spite of his flaws I really like him. Basically, he has *huge* golden retriever energy. It’s very charming in a way? One minute he’s acting all princely and next he’s practically wagging his tail. He’s a softie at heart despite being literally spoiled rich. I also think in a way Tamaki is kind of a foil to Haruhi in a way? Haruhi doesn’t really go out of her way to change peoples lives but Tamaki does. Love him or hate him, he’s pretty selfless. No matter how spoiled rich he may seem he’s still very kind at heart and tries his best to help others with their problems and make them happy. Can he be annoying or a pervert? Absolutely. But again, it’s a comedy anime. And in media we can suspend our disbelief a lot more when it comes to stuff like this. Basically, Tamaki’s perverted was and protectiveness are very exaggerated but his sweet moments where the show is serious in tone are sincere. Hope you enjoyed my rant about the character my hyper romantic ass has been fixated on for the past few weeks
As someone who got into geikomi and "bara VNs" in the 00s trenches in the Anonib days it makes me really happy to see material from back them receiving attention Imediatelly recognized the character from Maison de M from the thumbnail. I really wish more MLM doujinshi and games from Japan had oficial or fan translations initiatives. It's sad that we didn't progressed that much in almost 2 decades. I remember the hype behind the translation for Maison de M and Hunk's Workshop.
@@Coffee_Cakes believe it or not, Kemono(furry) artists are more likely to do official releases/translations. That's probably the easiest way to find MLM harem or equivalent nowadays, from both eastern and western fronts (there's been more and more Date Sims on itchio).
God this video was everything and incredibly relatable. It sent me back to my youth being a young weeb. I remember watching Ouran host club in middle school in three 7~10 minute parts uploaded illegally to RUclips because my girlfriend recommended it. After that, looking at Bara manga and art online late at night, coming to terms with my gay identity. Hearing the guitar intro into Shissou at the end of the video had me all nostalgic and teary eyed. Excellent video dude.
this video actually rings so true to my experiences in some ways, though mine come from another angle. I ended up accidentally stumbling upon harem manga every once in a while when I was in middle school because tbh at our local library, nobody really checked what was in the manga section before they made it available to preteens. and I was the type who would go for any genre if it looked interesting. so I often had the experience of picking up a manga with a girl on the cover, wearing some pretty frilly outfit, and I'd basically play "magical girl or ecchi" roulette. and when it was ecchi, I'd basically have the experience of thinking "oh... this clearly wasn't made for me." but like, I'd still read it. what other options were there? Ouran High School Host Club was really groundbreaking to me, because not only was Haruhi the light of my young nonbinary life... Tamaki was also a very stereotypical shojo romantic lead. or at least, he was a parody of the "main boy" archetype, for comedic purposes. _and he still liked Haruhi._ like, sure, he may have done some light agonizing in the beginning, over the fact that he was attracted to boy mode Haruhi... but ultimately, he didn't need her to change and he didn't begrudge her masculine side. he found her adorable, even when she was a boy to him. and like... being nonbinary often feels as though you're not enough of anything to appeal to anyone. not man enough to appeal to straight women or gay men... not woman enough to appeal to straight men or gay women. you're a category that a lot of people don't really consider as more than an afterthought, because you're a non-standard option. and I think that, very intelligently, the boys in Ouran High School Host Club hit this sweet spot where they do a lot of shit that is gay as hell, but they do it in this kinda hetero-baiting way. the main clientele for the host club is girls who want to look at pretty boys, especially when the boys are out here performing some of the most homosexual behaviors they can come up with. and somewhere within the parody, something genuine emerges. all the gay shit, all the genderbending, all the androgyny by way of masculine beauty, or feminine handsomeness... it's all genuinely wanted. it's all genuinely seen in a positive light, and put on display for others as a feature, not a flaw. and it can make pinning down the actual sexuality of any of the characters into a slippery thing... but the ambiguity isn't uncomfortable. anyone who crushes on Haruhi gets dragged into a bit of her ambiguity, and the knowledge that the ambiguity is fine, is actually really important to me. because it's really all I have to hang my hat on. the bit about the dating sim at the end of the video made me feel... I dunno. very morose for a bit there. because like... it sucks when nothing is made for you, and it feels like there's no room for you in the world. especially when you're just a kid, and you can't see a path forward in life because nobody is making media that models the kind of life you're gonna live. stories aren't about you, and what you want is hidden, obscure, not documented... it leaves you with no choice but to make do in some very strange ways.
@@Coffee_Cakes actually, looking more at the comments section, people are recommending stuff and I have to weigh in. on the good shojo recommendations side of things, I absolutely love the manga Skip Beat. I don't think it has a good solid anime adaptation, at most I think there's an OVA... and it's one of those really really long running ones, so I haven't even gotten up to date with it. and in terms of flaws, yeah... the art can be very like... shojo giraffe people, if you know what I mean. but the story is very charming, funny, the characters have really good chemistry with one another... it's just a pet favorite of mine. I'd also recommend Fruits Basket because like. god. that was the first manga I ever read, and it helped me through some really tough shit in my childhood, so I have a definite bias towards it for sure. but I also think it holds up as one of those defining series that codified a lot of the tropes that you see reused and remixed in the genre to this day, and the reason it was so influential is because Fruits Basket did it well. it still has some of-the-era stuff in it, but on the whole, the writing is very solid and very touching... it's what you want a good shojo to be. ...aaaaaand on the other end of the scale. have you seen Golden Kamuy? I love Golden Kamuy. it's a bonkers historical fiction seinin manga, and it's full of buff men, and they're all big weirdos, it's great. and the author absolutely knows what he's doing with them on an aesthetic level too. idk. something not straight is happening here, even if I don't think the story will commit to canon gay main cast members. it's more in the realm of like... oft times I find myself thinking this author must be drawing these men in this way for self indulgent reasons, and looking at all the character designs, I think he might have a type. and hey, I'll reap benefits off of that. also, it's hilarious, and I just get real good vibes off of it. big producer of a lot of my good brain chemicals. I also get good vibes off of Dorohedoro, even though that level of extreme violence isn't always necessarily my thing. I think I'm just a fan of gap moe, where the "gap" is between the character's tough, muscular, imposing looking exterior, and their cute dumb idiot personality. gets me every time, I am so weak to that.
I think that the closest that I felt pandered in a harem anime was Ristorante Paradiso. It's a pretty chill reverse harem with only older men. I recommend
Aaah, I love hearing other people's views of Ouran Highschool host club! I watched it when I was really young, and I remember admiring Haruhi's attitude on gender. Her quote about how she would rather have people know her for who she is, rather than what sex she was resonated with me. It made me feel seen. I'd like to share my first reactions to moments in Ouran! - I also really hated Tamaki, even as a kid, lol. I found his overly detailed fantasies about Haruhi super creepy, and I felt like Haruhi wasn't interested in him at all. I also just thought he was annoying. - I was too young to understand that Tamaki said a slur at Haruhi's dad, but I remember not liking how Tamaki was rude to him. I didn't know about trans people, or know about crossdressing that much, but I still thought he was cool. I felt like he was a lot like Haruhi, and I thought it was cool that he wore what he liked to wear, despite gender norms. And he was a funny, affection dad who loves his daughter. - I also really loved the lobelia girls, lol. I loved their theatrics. I also liked how they played with gender roles, such as dressing in masculine clothing, and how they weren't afraid to show that they like women romantically. - I also really disliked the scene where Kyoya assaulted Haruhi. Even as a child, I felt like it was really out of character and not right. So I generally skipped that part and pretended it never happened. - overall, young me watched Ouran to fangirl over Haruhi, lol. I rooted for her to not end up romantically with anybody. (part of the reason why might have been "eww, romance is gross" from child me, but it might have also been I was unconsciously crushing on Haruhi before I knew I was queer, lol)
I don't even remember how I came across Ouran High School Host Club - but I think it helped me be more open to my own queerness in a time when there was no representation around me and when that outro hit in the video it's like all those memories came rushing back
Ok so this is the first video of yours I've ever watched and I just wanted to thank you so much, I either have a really poor attention span or ADHD and how quickly you went between topics made me really happy that I could watch a video as long as 40 MINUTES. And the touch of the ohhc ending right at the end while you were talking in a sort of "this is it, huh?" Kind of tone made me so excited thinking about the last ep of ohhc anyways keep it up!!
YOUR EDITING IS SO ON POINT.... i found myself so surprised at how sentimental i felt towards the harem genre as i watched, and your words captured those feelings perfectly!! wonderful work!!!
First time here and maybe(?) not the target demo, but it's a fascinating deep dive. (I'll let you know if i make it thru) I make it. It was wild, insightful and...I learned something.
It took me a long time to warm up to Tamaki. He just came off as so hyperactive and obsessive, always having small meltdowns when things don't go his way. He also seemed to be the most upset about Haruhi not conforming to gender norms. He mellows with time but it was a long road to get there. Personally, I thought Kaoru was best boy. He was the more mature twin and he did genuinely care about Haruhi.
I loved OHSHC (except the dated terminology towards lgbt community but I don’t hate on it much considering the year it came out and how they have positive relationships with the lgbt characters rather than antagonistic) even so I never watched it for the romance. I didn’t care for shipping, tamaki vs hikaru or any of that. What really got me into it was the characters had real personalities, they had backgrounds and growth, they got you invested in them without needing a love pentagon
Yup, I did also watch ToraDora at 2am on a school night, violently weeping into a towel to avoid waking up my parents. I've been revisiting anime I loved and strangely, I feel like I can understand Ouran's value even more now.
Here from Hazel mentioning you on Drawfee! I'm same age as you so... same zoomer cusp vibes. But Ouran was one of my FIRST ever anime? but it was subbed I think? I really adore it still, but ye! Need more like it. Seems like you and I had very similar journeys with Bara and stuff growing up... sadly really weren't many options. oh my gosh Humplex/Newgrounds references, DAMN. But ye! This was a really great video essay! Awesome stuff! A lot of this stuff is what inspired me to become an artist myself! If you wanna watch a proper yaoi anime... maybe Junjou Romantica? That was sorta from our age? I'm gonna need to track down Maison De M, I've never played or encountered it outside of still images! Nostalgic Depressed Sluts forever
I think its interesting (and funny in a messed up way) that one of my favorite shows ever has such blatant transphobia... and then I turned out to be a trans gay man. Still love it though, and Haruhi really kickstarted my gender journey
Yeah I first watched this show really young so I didn't realize how transphobic it really was. I think because they didn't treat Ranka badly perse. They definitely said some offensive things though
Honestly, Ouran did a lot for me as a kid. I didn't grow up in a homophobic or transphobic household at all but my family's still kinda uneducated about that stuff. Seeing a character giving not even an ounce of a fuck about their perceived gender opened my eyes to all the great possibilities that were out there for lil ol' elementary school me who didn't care for gender but felt socially pressured to express... something along the lines of traditional gender (got confused and chose the one I wasn't assigned at birth at first because it felt more neutral but oh well)
Find it interesting that the same creator behind host club being inspired by Please save my Earth. The story writer behind Sonic Adventure 2 was also inspired by that anime. *insert obvious if I had a nickel quote here*
In highschool, my anime club somehow watched all of Ouran together. Its one of my favorite memories of that time. Really.. opened my eyes to some things for sure. Solid video! Love your stuff!
I obviously don’t speak for everyone, but as a “tranny” myself, this is one of my favorite shows for the way both haruhi AND her dad are depicted. Their identities are totally authentic and unique. They aren’t spelled out for the audience or other characters, and they don’t need to be. It’s both a major theme and casual part of their characters at the same time. And the way they’re treated by the other characters in the show is, as ranka puts it, “refreshing!” It’s just so blunt and unfiltered, and I don’t find it mean-spirited or offensive, especially for the time period. I like this messy representation better than some more modern characters that are overly explained and have the personality of a piece of cardboard, because as “representation” they can’t be anything bad or problematic or even remotely interesting. At the end of the day, in OHSHC everyone still genuinely loves each other even if they don’t totally get one another. Whenever the state of politics against transgender people feels like it’s swallowing me up, this is the comfort show I watch to peak into a world where it just isn’t that big of a deal. I want to know how other trans people feel about this show in the comments!
I remember watching Ouran as a 12 year old in 2012 and absolutely loving it without any thoughts on the problematic side to it, so it's very interesting to revisit it with actual critical thinking loll. Loved hearing your impression of it and your story with Maison de M. We all have our own niche pieces of media that we had to scoure the internet to find translations of -and being changed in the process lol
I used to think that I liked Haruhi a lot because just like her, I was also mistaken for being a boy a lot (usually cause my parents shaved my hair or kept it short because they didn't know how to maintain my curly hair). I was bullied a lot for my boyish appearance and my curly hair too. It made me like the trope of a girl being mistaken for a guy troupe. But now, years later, I realized that I am genderqueer. (Most likely genderfluid, but I am not for sure yet).
Remember watching the show in middle school and me and my cousin fell in love with it. We decided to watch it again last month and I completely forgot the t slur until watching it. I literally cackled because I forgot how poorly this dub aged. Really a mixed feeling when watching the show now as a trans girl.
I literally have watched this series so many times in the sub and rewatched it again and have never seen that word neither any type of rude behaviour from tamaki to haruhi’s dad
beyond happy I stumbled onto your channel! it warmed my heart that you put so much dedication into not just talking about ouran, but other anime/visual novels that are related to the broad topic at hand which is harems. I was so entertained! also so happy to find more gay anime-related content creators. as a gay trans man, I am elated you make videos!
God the bit about Maison de M reminds me of how much Morenatsu ended up meaning to me as a teen who was working through being both bigender and bisexual. I had found yuri pretty early on and fallen into yuri fan circles early too so while I had issues with being treated terribly by lesbophobes (and eventually biphobes) I generally had a grasp on being a girl who liked other girls. I never really vibed with BL or yaoi though and my BL loving friends in middle school being massive lesbophobes just ended up making it vibe even less. It took until high school when I learned about furries and started hanging out with gay furries that I started untangling more of the gender thing and my fascination with the big buff guys in the 80's action films I liked as a kid. Through things like sharing of gay Biker Mice from Mars fanfic and Morenatsu. And Morenatsu is just this unfinished gay kemono VN that I never really hear anyone talk about. But it ended up meaning a lot for me since it was the first time I ever got to really play as a guy into other dudes. And with a variety of guys to pine after! Several whom were the big guys I was more into! It meant a lot then and still does now that I'm further untangling stuff with my repressing of my gender and sexuality. I found out like two years ago that there was a fan made attempt to remake and finish the game. Even years after the game itself had been dead. I still haven't played Homecoming but at some point I think I'll poke around through it.
I am a lil warry to ever try look into morenatsu cause its got a lot of following to it and a lot of the characters are underage. If I ever do ill probs do Homecoming cause they aged em up.
@@Coffee_Cakes Yeah that's fair. I originally played the thing when I was younger. Around the characters' ages so it didn't bother me then because, well, that was my age range. So it is good to see that the Homecoming remake has aged the characters up to adults. They establish that very early on too from my brief looking into it, where the youngest character states he's 18.
Ouran was something I loved as a kid and I feel like we all look back on with those rose-tinted nostalgia glasses if we watched it as a kid. It definitely deserves to be reinvented as a real queer flagship, though there's definitely a lot to be desired in the series as it is-- especially the anime dub. Oof. On the plus side, if I'm remembering right Bisco Hattori did confirm... somewhere?? that Kaoru is gay so uh... diversity win?
No, but actually, there was a whole plot where Kaoru liked Haruhi but gave up on it for his brother's sake. So that would overturn some plot to be true.
I watched Ouran 12 years ago, when I was a closeted 14 year old transgirl, still a year away from coming out as transgender, and honestly Haruhi being so genderqueer and her drag queen bisexual dad was SO influential on me! Literally changed my life in ways I can not even articulate now. Formative by the very definition of the word! But i remember being uncomfortable with the slurs already, despite not even truly understanding why the demeaning tranny comment made me feel like that. It was a groundbreaking anime in many ways, but in others it really has not aged well... Not even through the representation of the trans-spectrum characters, just in the way they're treated as jokes by the MAIN romantic interest of Haruhi...
Absolutely loved this video, really hit me with some nostalgia of being an awkward weeb looking for myself in what I watched. Also I was so excited when I heard your accent and realised you were also Irish!
OMG that line about finding that dick gum shoe game spoke to my soul. I remember taking so long to find a gay romance that I actually vibed with. That eventually came for me in the form of Adastra back in 2020 (oh amicus my beloved). Still I'm glad there is at least someone else speaking on the loneliness of what its like to be a gay introvert, and having to go to the weird corners of the internet to even find anything anything you can relate to whatsoever.
@@Coffee_Cakes Omg you have actually read it? It feels so obscure even in gay online culture (well that or maybe I don't hang out with the furries as much as I probably should). Apparently the heart break of never being able to be with my beloved amicus is the only thing that motivates me (and yes I am referencing that awful hour and a half video essay I made on Adastra over a year ago now).
30 seconds in and I aggressively hit subscribe. Also, Tenchi Muyo is totally a Harem Anime. A GREAT one, but still a Harem Anime for sure lmao. I'm so glad I found your channel. Your jokes are...whatever is above A+? S Class? You got S Class humor and I'm here for it.
My little monster was the first anime I ever watched and fell in love with! As a fellow 25 year old it was really cool! Loved your video style and editing and great points! Host club definitely has its flaws but is my comfort anime! Great video 🥰
that slur wasn't really considered a slur back then... it was more the terminology used for people like that. it's obviously outdated, but those of us who identify with those words (queers like me) have reclaimed them. and honestly, everyone in OHSHC is queer in some way, haha. it's ok to talk about it critically, of course, but we def can't hold this show to our standards of today. if anything, what we should be fully criticizing it for its the random Nazi visual from the lesbian school.
no cause ohshc was such a big thing for me. i still have all the manga. i love haruhi so much and back then i didnt even know why (and now look at me. queer, non-binary, and somehow i only recently realized i now basically have her same haircut as well). she was such a cool character in my eyes. funnily enough the OTHER manga i was obsessed with was hana kimi. in which a teenaged girl disguises herself as a boy to go to the same high school as her high-jump idol does, but its an all-boys school. hmmm..... in hindsight....something smelled very gender-y here.....
OHSHC is a really important anime to me, it was my first real exposure to gender non-conformity as a kid. It was quite literally an awakening for me, because I could never really verbalize my own experiences before. I attribute my ability to proudly be myself as a non-binary person to the rabbit hole this anime sent me down.
“A gender non-conforming girl boss and her five twinks” 😂😂😂😂
A true modern family!
I was gonna make a snow white and the seven dwarves joke but I had no idea what to call haruhi
I was seriously about to go down to the comment section and make this exact same f****** comment
Wait a goddamn minute, Kyoya and Mori aren’t twinks.
@@Darth_Bateman one of them wasn't counted, time to find out which one
“A family really can be a gender non-confirming girl boss and her 5 twinks, and I think that’s beautiful.” that’s it my most favorite quote now
Hell ye
As a girl, the reason Haruhi was appealing was not because she was "not like other girls" but was because she was realistic and relatable. She was the most realistic and most sane person there, especially considering that all the other girls in the show were an intentional parody of what people think girls are like.
Coppied
if you wonder who even likes Tamaki the answer is bisexual top women who are kinda into brats. also he comes across much more likable in the subbed version for the reasons you mentioned
I've never been so singularly called out until this comment
Oh its totes brat syndrome for sure, and me as a brat, feel like he is a rival lol
I am bisexual and a top but Tamaki is not my type at all, this is actually very reassuring to me that this is because I am not a woman at all, thanks.
….
It makes sense now
@@Coffee_Cakesso surprise twist: that accidentally makes Tamaki's romance archetype THE RIVAL. Great vid btw! Loved it! I'm so glad hazel recommended it!
The phrase "fanservise jumpscare" is genius. I remember being like 12, watching that ep and being absolutely bewildered by the scene. I feel so seen and validated all of a sudden lol
I am glad I could appeal to all our shared trauma of episode 12
I literally gasped so hard
It isn’t fan service
I WAS CONFUSED< SINCE HE NEVER HIT ON HER BEFORE SO I ASSUMED HE HAD HIDDEN FEELINGS
Maybe because you've grown used to your stepfather trying to correct your wrongs
While I love *most* of the Ouran High anime... Tamaki is much better in the manga~ Also, it takes a long time for the Manga to show who Haruhi would end up with, giving her scenes with most of the cast!
My favorite part of the Manga, however, is on their 3rd spring festival, the author writes an apology letter to the reader basically reading "I know it doesn't make sense timewise, but I love these characters in this set of grades, so we are going around again!"
Ye iv heard Tamaki makes a lot more sense in a more structured sense, the anime is way more slice of life lol
As someone who didn’t read much of the manga, can you explain what the mangaka meant in the letter? Do the characters live the same year again?
@@HartxStarr Yup, Honey and Mori are Seniors, and if the year advanced, she would have to write those two out of the series... so, they basically relived the same year many times over (but without any sort of restarting, and no new group of students coming in)... kinda like if your Freshman year of HS took 4 years instead of 1 year~
It was basically written as a "don't worry about it" timeline xD
@@HartxStarr The kinda timeline the Simpsons or South Park has... time passes, everyone acknowledges that time passes, some things chance permanently, but nobody ages or advances in grade
The best part is that, not being from Japan, I was absolutely ready to roll with it.
Not to be the Tamaki defense force I think he def has some issues, but I think similar to Haruhi, Tamaki is the person who brought everyone together and actually listened to and realized their problems. And made attempts to help them. Which is why much of the boys tend to side with him even when he’s wrong.
Yeah! hes good in the end
They'd all be lost without the host club🥺 especially the twins
@@eritakahashi1765 He did a lot of good ~
Yep, he literally has trauma 👍
Tamaki is a good duck.
ouran high school host club transed my gender and now im gay
Hell yeah😎
Haruhi transed my gender and now I’m non-binary (Sailor Moon too but that’s a long story lol)
I'm nonbinary and I'm pretty sure Haruhi and Kyoya made me transed my gender, and yassified my sexuality, so we vibing on the same wavelength
@@vagiterianbogmonster3268 i watched it while i was questioning myself but i'm very sure i'm nonbinary now and haruhi is super gender lmao
Congrats to all of you who have transed your genders!
My favorite line has got to be Kyoya's: "I just don't think I'm supporting cast, homosexual or otherwise." Idk there's just something about it. Probably that he just brushes off the whole gay statement in favor of the "this bitch seriously just called me a side character. i do all the work for this club and THIS is what i get"
Its honestly valid
fun fact, haruhi was apparently confirmed by the creators to be nonbinary. which makes sense considering how often she repeats that she doesn't care about gender nor what people refer to them as. like in the first episode they literally say "i'm biologically a female but idc", fucking iconic.
hell ye
"My gender is whatever you decide." -Haruhi, probably
Um source?
@@samspics7311 the, the anime?
@@lokylong28 Um Haruhi says things like "I don't care about gender or how I'm perceived by others but that isn't necessarily nonbinary rep. I have much the same thought process but I don't consider myself as non binary. Gender non conforming doesnt always equal nonbinary. You are free to interpretation but to say its cannon or intentional (without a source of the creator doing so) is just inaccurate and misleading. Honestly there's more clear language in the series that Haruhi could be Bi/Pan than identifies as nonbinary. I've read a few of the creators interviews recently trying to find the source of the Mori rumor and when asked about these topics it doesnt seem to have been something she intentionally did but is happy that others found themselves in Haruhi and the rest of the cast as she felt the series was about kindness. I'm just saying a headcannon or interpretation is fine and I won't argue that Haruhi helped a lot of people in understanding themselves but to claim something is cannon or was the creators intent without sourcing is something we should avoid doing. If there is a sourced interview that I haven't found though I'd like to see it but my point still stand that we should be sourcing statements like these and not assuming a creators intent especially when it comes to the subject of representation.
“A gender nonconforming girlboss and her five twinks”
That’s it. That’s the whole show
Ye that line really does cut across a lot of bullshit lmao
@@Coffee_Cakes absolutely
I don't think using the "t" word was actually INTENDED to be a slur by Tamaki. Which could just means someone in the translation process REALLY missed the ball, and then everyone after that dropped it too. Or maybe a higher up who didn't know what the hell they were talking about changed the script. Either way, I don't think Tamaki actually meant it to be rude anymore than he meant to be that insulting using the phrase commoner. He's just an idiot. Either way, it did not age well.
Yea the Japanese word used is closer to cross dresser or drag. It’s a colloquial term so I can see the attempt at trying to be more casual without understanding the meaning of the word. The word they use isn’t even the one used for transgender. It really is just a man who cross dresses. While some people dislike this term especially used by those outside the community, it is not a slur like the “t” word is and the push back is mostly mislabeling and pushing people that don’t fit this label like actual trans women and men who likes to wear certain clothes/accessories typically reserved for not necessarily as crossdressing but more from a aesthetic, fashion or others reasons. Mostly it’s used as people who do crossdressing as a hobby or performative crossdressing similar to drag. I am Japanese and grew up in the US so I understand what these both mean culturally. I watched the series in Japanese with English subtitles and was surprised to see this translation too.
My thoughts exactly, I never got the impression tamaki was trying to be rude or insulting, it always came across like ignorance of how the term is used like when they visit Haruhi at her apartment and when she says "when was the last time we bought milk" to her its we don't use it often so do we have any to tamachan it was "I'm so poor I can't afford to have this common item except for rare occasions" like his whole character is that he's not aware of the world
That's always what I thought, given the way wandering son also got translated.
Eh. This show was translated before the marriage equality fight took off in the US. Back then "gay" was used to mean "stupid". Funimation is also based in Texas so there's that. The casual transphobia was probably intentional.
just finished the video actual masterpiece best video of 2022
THANK YOU HAZEL
I was actually in the middle of watching it on Netflix.
You said that to ThorHighHeels yesterday...
@@Calpsotoma yesterday was apr 1
@@Calpsotoma And she was right in both cases
lets go ive been so stoked for this video for so long
gonna start calling Hazel the Views Fairy because first she got me watching Thor and now here I am
hazel thank you so much for directing your followers to this video. the clip at 12:38 made me laugh so hard i nearly choked to death on a pretzel. 10/10 amazing recommendation
Hi hazel :)
i cheered when i heard your voice
I've only watched the anime too and I'm surprised to see that people dislike Tamaki, as he's my absolute favorite with Haruhi as a close second. Though he was initially annoying I quickly warmed up to him after seeing how... genuine he is as a person. He has a lot of flaws and his behavior often comes from a place of privilege, but he's a great example of how people aren't one-dimensional and how anyone can be kind. He's always the first character to jump up and help someone in need, sometimes even without considering himself first. Despite his antics he's a very selfless character who I feel is the heart of this group.
Ouran's greatest strength in my opinion is how fairly it treats its characters, how each character grows and learns from each other, including Haruhi's growth because of the Host Club. It's a story about all of them widening their perspectives and overcoming prejudice on both sides. Also, I think Tamaki is wonderful for her, as they're essentially the embodiment of this message, and despite acting obnoxious when they're goofing around he's the one person in the Host Club who would put Haruhi's well-being and happiness even before his own in a heartbeat.
Id mostly agree with you if he didnt use so many slurs lmao
@@Coffee_Cakes I thought he didn’t use slurs in the sub? Did I misunderstand?
@@amberrousseau1517 I think he's referring to the use of "tranny" incredibly often by Tamaki. I thought that word only became considered a slur in recent years, but to be honest I'm really too young to have much knowledge on the LGBT community and what was and wasn't acceptable when Ouran came out.
@@amberrousseau1517 but yes, I am I bit confused since he seemed to state they didn't use those in the sub. I guess the dub is still technically supposed to be an accurate representation of Tamaki
@@beryl5761 In the English translation of the manga, Tamaki doesn't use the term "tranny" at all from my quick skim through of the scenes where he had said the term in the anime English dub. He only refers to Haruhi's dad and her dad's friend as crossdressers. Personally, I'll put a manga's representation of their characters over any anime, dub, or sub since it's normally more accurate to what the author had intended. Although, on the first page of volume 4, Ranka's workplace is referred to as a "tranny bar" it's done by the narrator, not a character from what I can tell but it is the only time I had seen the term in the series (but I am currently missing volumes 7, 11, and 18 but hope to get them someday). In the end, I think the use of the term is the fault of whoever wrote the script for Tamaki's English voice actor and not the character himself.
Personally, I have mixed feelings about Tamaki, sometimes I thought he was funny other times I thought he was annoying or weird. When it came to the boys, I liked the twins the best with Kaoru as my favorite.
Tamaki appeals to me as a certified himbo-enjoyer, something about a man who everyone can tell is in love whilst he himself is oblivious just does it for me.
I also think there was an element of not "I can fix him", but "I can help him"; I think the former can only really apply in cases where the character is genuinely toxic, which I don't think Tamaki is (if you don't count the dub transphobia). Like the guy is just traumatised as hell, and has dealt with the separation from his mother by becoming incredibly protective of the people he cares about to the point of self-sacrifice. For context, the next host that appeals to me most is Mori, for similar reasons. While child-me did also enjoy Hikaru's whole romance subplot, his selfish, immature side in the anime had to lose out to the selflessness Tamaki displayed repeatedly. I could dismiss some of Tamaki's stubborn notions of "chivalry" on the basis that those are just his misguided attempts to protect those around him. For not having a focused backstory episode like the twins and Kyoya got, we get so much characterisation of Tamaki purely based on how he interacts with the other hosts.
I generally have a tendency to like characters who think they don't deserve much, especially in romance stories where the other person helps them realise that they deserve happiness - in Ouran both Tamaki and Haruhi do this for each other. Maybe a little projection on my part, idk.
I second the suggestion to watch Kamisama Kiss (although I've only ever watched it in sub, can't comment on the quality of the dub). If you're interested in checking out a shoujo classic, definitely try (in sub if you can, the dub is not great) Kare Kano, a genuine classic which was directed by motherfucking Hideaki Anno of all people (and it shows).
Seconding this take, thank you for so eloquently standing up for your fellow himboholics. Tamaki is my special boy xoxo
Though fwiw I've only ever seen the sub, maybe I'd feel differently if I was just familiar w the dub
@@zk5228 I grew up with the dub and didn't watch the sub until very recently, and I still felt this way about Tamaki, though I just have a very forgiving disposition in general so maybe I was willing to let more slide than most would. Also I first watched Ouran when I was like 12 back in 2009 so awareness about certain social justice issues hadn't really reached me yet.
I do hope I wasnt too mean to Tamaki, I realize hes a good boy I just needed a punching bag lmao
He's top tier himbo
You never spoke about Ritsu Kasanoda and his family of gang members and how he was open to the idea of being bi and his whole group/family being supportive. I think that is a major point as well- 'cause yes it was Haruhi he had a crush on but he was so willing to explore it and his supportive group were there with him on that journey. It was so sweet and one of the reasons Kasanoda (and Kaoru) is one of my faves.
absolute icons the lotta em
mindblowing how this video somehow got by completely without mentioning Tamaki and Kyouya calling each other Mommy and Daddy even once
Dog you had no idea I had to cut out so much stuff lol
@@Coffee_Cakes understandable 😂
I just need this anime to get the Fruits Basket treatment and for most of the manga to be made into an anime… without the problematic things of course.
A new version of the show would honestly bang so much ngl
I want a re run of it so badly bc the manga is soooo good
@
Same seriously. These both were some of my first anime!! Obsessed
Yes I have been praying to the anime gods all year for this
I was in the Ouran TRENCHES in 2012--it was one of the first anime I ever looked up fanfic for (all Tamaki/Kyoya or amorphous poly romance naturally)--so I really enjoyed this video! Thanks for providing fun and thoughtful analysis of one of my favorite messy early 2000s shojo series. Loved the discussion of geikomi and Maison De M too!
I am so glad this shit hit to a true Ouran veteran
I'm pretty sure the reason Mori and Honey never get together is because it's implied they're cousins, both in the manga and in the anime it's mentioned that for centuries Mori's family served the Haninozukas. The families got merged by marriage but Mori still serves honey, Tamaki says it's "In Mori's blood". There's also a bonus at the end of one of the mangas where Hatori draws things that could never happen (I think in volume 2 or 3) and one of them is Mori and Honey falling in love, which implied that they were never going to be together pretty early on :( although I do wish they would've just been dating instead or something, Mori was always my favorite
This reminds me that the author actually had plans to make Mori the guy who haruhi get's with. But obviously she went with the fan favourite.
@@htsunmiku that kinda reminds me of "Kiss him, not me!" ending, I liked the final ships there too
@@htsunmiku yes! I always disliked that, I love Tamaki but when I found out Mori could've been endgame I felt so betrayed!
@@m.v.gonzalez5575 you just brought back so many memories of my 14 year old fudanshi phase. i forgot Kiss Him, Not Me existed lol
they are canonically cousins although very distantly related blood-wise but if they did end up together it's gonna be a huge scandle so i think how they ended up is better
One thing Id say is that Tamaki's dad absolutely adores him. I dont think the anime really paints that picture but its tackled in the manga in depth. Its the grandmother who was the problem. But ur joke about Tamakis dad made me internally chuckle.
ye the show does sort of just push a lot of the tamaki trauma very quick at the end so im sure the manga does a better job stretching it out
I think part of the repeated slur issue is that said word was not widely recognized as a slur by general society at the time and was used more for "Transvestite". Just memories from the old people for context as to why it was allowed.
And they probably couldn't fit such a long word as 'transvestite' in the lip flaps.
Was coming to say this too. It's a slur now (and still had some nasty undertones in that era I won't make excuses for it) but it was a more wildly used thing in 2006, but I definitely remember watching Ouran when it first came out (I was a young teen) and it wasn't as big a deal (at least in the area where I grew up).
I guess it's important to look at the context, intention and tone and not just the word itself in order to see if it's being used as a slur or not.
Mori and Honey are literal cousins tho... they are very close because Mori it's there to protect him, they were raised like that, it's literally in the anime
ye
ikr i was confused when they mentioned "author baited us with the mori x honey" like nahhh they're cousins they're not anything 😭
And the twins were literally twins, and they canonically baited yaoi twincest. Obviously, yaoi bait=/=actual relations for ouran
@@averageofficeworker5271 ye
@@Coffee_Cakes can i get a ye for saying they were actually in love
The newground gumshoe game jumpscare. You're so real for that. I felt seen.
Lmao it clings to us all like a memory of our past
Honestly for me this show was very formative for me as a 19 year old who would realize that she was a girl for another 7 years. So much so that I completely forgot about all the really problematic shit in it and just felt such a kinship with the main character. Doesn’t excuse any of that in the slightest and glossing over it was probably more of a symptom of my half cooked egg brain that was compensating with axe body spay because maybe that would make me a real man, but I do remember it with fondness.
For all the bad the show has the fact it helped so many people find their authentic self is worth its weight in gold to me tbh
" glossing over it was probably more of a symptom of my half cooked egg brain" oh yeah as a trans guy i think i did the exact same thing. i didn't remember the bad parts because i was probably too busy just sitting in awe at Haruhi and the gender of it all. egg brain solidarity
Tamaki deserved better than Vic Mcdingdong. Tamaki in the manga is an airheaded boy with good intentions, who grows as the series progresses, and Vic's take on him killed the dub for me (no matter how great Caitlin Glass's Haruhi was)
We all deserved better than Vic period.
@@Coffee_Cakes all of the yes
@@Coffee_Cakes too true
What did Vic do?
@@bemiatto67 it's a long story, but the nutshell version is he denied a character was gay falsely because of his own queer phobia. He spoke on behalf of clamp claiming a known queer character was straight was he 'doesn't play gay characters'
Me: “wow, what a well made nuanced video on such a wild subgenre of anime and what it actually means to people and it’s intent”
Also me: “hmmmmm game full of big bara guys. good.”
mmmm big boys ...
I watched Ouran back in 2012 before I had realized my own queerness and going back to it last year felt exactly like you described. Surprisingly ahead of its time, extremely uncomfortable at times, but overall like a warm, comforting hug in a media landscape that's often hard to relate to.
Didn't see this ending on a segment about bara, but I'm so glad it went there. Niche queer hentai has seen me grow from adolescent to adulthood (now with expendable income to spend unwisely) and it so rarely gets talked about this lovingly. Definitely binge watching the rest of this channel now :D
Thank you so much for your kind words
I had a bootleg DVD of Ouran which used the Japanese dub with terribly translated subtitles. Despite this, I still vibed with this show during my young teenage years, and it was perhaps my first exposure to "gay" media. It helped me be okay with liking more feminine things, and I'll always appreciate that.
I am so glad it helped you !!
Haruhi helped me through gender dysphoria in a way I didn't expect. I thought my distance from ultra-femme made me agender or something but really I'm just me. I'm a girl but honestly it doesn't matter to me how I'm perceived. If someone uses masculine or feminine or nb pronouns for me, they all feel fine. It made me comfortable being and identifying as a girl even if I didn't always feel like I fit in with what I knew to be a "girl". I get to define what that is for me. Idk. I just really loved Ouran and I'm glad I watched it at the time I did.
Haruhi is so coool
the way haruhi talked about thier gender geninuely made me realize i was trans. like i had never seen a character be so careless about thier gender before, and especially seein a 'girl' character dress as a boy and not care how they're seen, made it especially resonate with me cause at the time i thought i was a girl. haruhis character means a lot to me they rlly made me actually think about how i feel about my gender, i related to them a lot.
but yea saying that i dont think i could feel comfortable rewatching the show ghdjfj
and i did not know they used the t slur in the dub wtf i watched the sub, i think tamaki was a least a little more likeable in the sub but yea he is annoying ghjd
ye the dub really has soured modern discussion of the show sadly
Ok listen up. I don’t know about men, but every girl I know starts off HATING Tamaki, like you, but you end up totally falling in love with him. I don’t know how to explain it but he’s just so amazing…
I just dont see it im sorry maybe its cause im gay
I saw the sub and I think it's because he means well but is completely oblivious, even of his own feelings.
bisexual guy here, I dislike him, not enough to hate him, because I like laughing AT him, not with him
@@VampiricVik omg thats such a good way to put it
Ouran fangirl here, can confirm. Tbh I don't think I ever really had a crush on Tamaki but I absolutely adore the hell out of his character. I find him very relatable and he inspires me to always try to help others, listen to them and make them happy. Because that's what he founded the host club on.
I'm glad I only watched the sub of Ouran and didn't have to listen to my lovely bimbo (he's not beefy enough by a longshot to be a himbo) repeatedly say a slur. Yikes. (He is kind of insufferable, I don't disagree with your assessment of him entirely. But I found him fun. Shipped him with Kyoya. Sounds like I might have not liked him at all if I saw the dub version of him, though.)
Ye the show especially at the start may as well be shipping Kyoya and Tamaki together, they call each other mommy and daddy lmao
@@Coffee_Cakes I was basically shipping a canon couple, it's true. XD
When I was younger and read the scene with kyoya assaulting haruhi, I never looked at him the same way, I hated him afterwards and still do
The dude is legit nuts and I wont hear otherwise
We don't talk about that episode. It never happened. It was just a feverdream.
@@Linnzy right?? Like it's so out of character for Kyoya and Haruhi both.
The mention of the Gumshoe flash game unlocked some deep, buried memories.
Its so insane how that seems to be such a shared lived experience
"A family can be a gender non conforming girl boss and her harem of 5 twinks" is the best sum of ouran I've ever heard xD
And I am NOT WRONG
Thank you so much for the shout out!
OMG IM SO PROUD YALL SAW THIS !!!
Please keep up the good work I cant wait to play it !!
I think this is the first video essay I've seen to ever address bara themes as anything other than a passing joke. Thanks for this, it means a lot.
Believe me this will not be the last you hear me talking about bara on this channel
@@Coffee_Cakes sir, you got yourself a new subscription.
Rewatching Ouran for the first time since it came out back in 2017 with my girlfriend and getting smacked in the face by the transphobia was a real shock. I had completely forgotten it was there because I didn't see it as what it was as a closeted teenager.
Same I saw it when I was like 13 or smth and I definitely remember the show through rose coloured lenses. Didn’t realize that until I went back and watched some scenes after mentioning that I love it to a friend and them saying yeah “it’s nostalgic but kinda yikes sometimes” lol
Same with this video!
The kyoya scene in the beach episode impacted me so much 😅
Ye its BUCK wild
cultural reset
Yeah… the dubbed version of Tameki does him dirty. I think you can chalk up most of that to 2000 era scripts English translation. I mean, just a few years before this came out, they made Sailor Neptune and Sailor Saturn cousins in the English dub and didn’t really cut the clearly romantic scenes. I admittedly can’t read Japanese but I don’t remember the English version of the manga had him using slurs
ye tis so lame that its such a black mark on it now
I FEEL YOU WHEN YOU SAID YOU WEREN’T EXPECTING SLURS 😭😭 I LITERALLY HAD TO REPLAY IT TO MAKE SURE I HEARD CORRECTLY…Honestly, I don’t think it was intended for Tamaki to be a transphobic prick. Back then the t slur wasn’t really considered a slur to allocishets and was just “slang” to refer to trans people (I mean derogatory slang is like.. the definition of a slur but still). It’s a comedy anime so it’s kinda what I’d expect for at the time to just use a quick and (again at the time for some) loose term like that for comedic affect. Yeah in hindsight I do find it extremely odd that an anime that talks so much about gender and and gender expression actually used that, but to the people translating and making the dub they probably weren’t as interested in it as the creator was. Coupled with the fact that the slur g*psy was used and Haruhi’s father called himself the t slur too, I think it’s entirely on the English translators.
Also, as a Tamaki lover I wanted to explain why in spite of his flaws I really like him. Basically, he has *huge* golden retriever energy. It’s very charming in a way? One minute he’s acting all princely and next he’s practically wagging his tail. He’s a softie at heart despite being literally spoiled rich. I also think in a way Tamaki is kind of a foil to Haruhi in a way? Haruhi doesn’t really go out of her way to change peoples lives but Tamaki does. Love him or hate him, he’s pretty selfless. No matter how spoiled rich he may seem he’s still very kind at heart and tries his best to help others with their problems and make them happy. Can he be annoying or a pervert? Absolutely. But again, it’s a comedy anime. And in media we can suspend our disbelief a lot more when it comes to stuff like this. Basically, Tamaki’s perverted was and protectiveness are very exaggerated but his sweet moments where the show is serious in tone are sincere.
Hope you enjoyed my rant about the character my hyper romantic ass has been fixated on for the past few weeks
As someone who got into geikomi and "bara VNs" in the 00s trenches in the Anonib days it makes me really happy to see material from back them receiving attention
Imediatelly recognized the character from Maison de M from the thumbnail.
I really wish more MLM doujinshi and games from Japan had oficial or fan translations initiatives. It's sad that we didn't progressed that much in almost 2 decades.
I remember the hype behind the translation for Maison de M and Hunk's Workshop.
Its legit so frustrating that nobody wants to pick them up its nuts
@@Coffee_Cakes believe it or not, Kemono(furry) artists are more likely to do official releases/translations. That's probably the easiest way to find MLM harem or equivalent nowadays, from both eastern and western fronts (there's been more and more Date Sims on itchio).
@@MiloKuroshiro oh totes furries are way better at noticing western appeal than anyone else lol
I shouldn't be as surprised as i am that a man called MrBowser is also into bara
God this video was everything and incredibly relatable.
It sent me back to my youth being a young weeb.
I remember watching Ouran host club in middle school in three 7~10 minute parts uploaded illegally to RUclips because my girlfriend recommended it. After that, looking at Bara manga and art online late at night, coming to terms with my gay identity.
Hearing the guitar intro into Shissou at the end of the video had me all nostalgic and teary eyed.
Excellent video dude.
The guitar fucking rips still
this video actually rings so true to my experiences in some ways, though mine come from another angle. I ended up accidentally stumbling upon harem manga every once in a while when I was in middle school because tbh at our local library, nobody really checked what was in the manga section before they made it available to preteens. and I was the type who would go for any genre if it looked interesting. so I often had the experience of picking up a manga with a girl on the cover, wearing some pretty frilly outfit, and I'd basically play "magical girl or ecchi" roulette. and when it was ecchi, I'd basically have the experience of thinking "oh... this clearly wasn't made for me." but like, I'd still read it. what other options were there?
Ouran High School Host Club was really groundbreaking to me, because not only was Haruhi the light of my young nonbinary life... Tamaki was also a very stereotypical shojo romantic lead. or at least, he was a parody of the "main boy" archetype, for comedic purposes. _and he still liked Haruhi._ like, sure, he may have done some light agonizing in the beginning, over the fact that he was attracted to boy mode Haruhi... but ultimately, he didn't need her to change and he didn't begrudge her masculine side. he found her adorable, even when she was a boy to him. and like... being nonbinary often feels as though you're not enough of anything to appeal to anyone. not man enough to appeal to straight women or gay men... not woman enough to appeal to straight men or gay women. you're a category that a lot of people don't really consider as more than an afterthought, because you're a non-standard option.
and I think that, very intelligently, the boys in Ouran High School Host Club hit this sweet spot where they do a lot of shit that is gay as hell, but they do it in this kinda hetero-baiting way. the main clientele for the host club is girls who want to look at pretty boys, especially when the boys are out here performing some of the most homosexual behaviors they can come up with. and somewhere within the parody, something genuine emerges. all the gay shit, all the genderbending, all the androgyny by way of masculine beauty, or feminine handsomeness... it's all genuinely wanted. it's all genuinely seen in a positive light, and put on display for others as a feature, not a flaw. and it can make pinning down the actual sexuality of any of the characters into a slippery thing... but the ambiguity isn't uncomfortable. anyone who crushes on Haruhi gets dragged into a bit of her ambiguity, and the knowledge that the ambiguity is fine, is actually really important to me. because it's really all I have to hang my hat on.
the bit about the dating sim at the end of the video made me feel... I dunno. very morose for a bit there. because like... it sucks when nothing is made for you, and it feels like there's no room for you in the world. especially when you're just a kid, and you can't see a path forward in life because nobody is making media that models the kind of life you're gonna live. stories aren't about you, and what you want is hidden, obscure, not documented... it leaves you with no choice but to make do in some very strange ways.
Thank you for summing up my channels MO so naturally I am glad you saw it
@@Coffee_Cakes I'm glad I did too ^^
@@Coffee_Cakes actually, looking more at the comments section, people are recommending stuff and I have to weigh in.
on the good shojo recommendations side of things, I absolutely love the manga Skip Beat. I don't think it has a good solid anime adaptation, at most I think there's an OVA... and it's one of those really really long running ones, so I haven't even gotten up to date with it. and in terms of flaws, yeah... the art can be very like... shojo giraffe people, if you know what I mean. but the story is very charming, funny, the characters have really good chemistry with one another... it's just a pet favorite of mine.
I'd also recommend Fruits Basket because like. god. that was the first manga I ever read, and it helped me through some really tough shit in my childhood, so I have a definite bias towards it for sure. but I also think it holds up as one of those defining series that codified a lot of the tropes that you see reused and remixed in the genre to this day, and the reason it was so influential is because Fruits Basket did it well. it still has some of-the-era stuff in it, but on the whole, the writing is very solid and very touching... it's what you want a good shojo to be.
...aaaaaand on the other end of the scale. have you seen Golden Kamuy? I love Golden Kamuy. it's a bonkers historical fiction seinin manga, and it's full of buff men, and they're all big weirdos, it's great. and the author absolutely knows what he's doing with them on an aesthetic level too. idk. something not straight is happening here, even if I don't think the story will commit to canon gay main cast members. it's more in the realm of like... oft times I find myself thinking this author must be drawing these men in this way for self indulgent reasons, and looking at all the character designs, I think he might have a type. and hey, I'll reap benefits off of that. also, it's hilarious, and I just get real good vibes off of it. big producer of a lot of my good brain chemicals.
I also get good vibes off of Dorohedoro, even though that level of extreme violence isn't always necessarily my thing. I think I'm just a fan of gap moe, where the "gap" is between the character's tough, muscular, imposing looking exterior, and their cute dumb idiot personality. gets me every time, I am so weak to that.
I think that the closest that I felt pandered in a harem anime was Ristorante Paradiso. It's a pretty chill reverse harem with only older men. I recommend
holy shit okay hang on now
holy shit okay hang on now
I don't know good or where the manga goes tho. I only watched the short Anime adaptation, but the vibes there are pretty good!
@@MiloKuroshiro I will defo defo give it a looksie
Ooooh i love this one
Ah yes, the *other* Haruhi from my formative anime years.
In terms of show and Haruhi, I prefer this one. This enbi queen, dang
I also wanna talk about the OTHER Haruhi ...
Aaah, I love hearing other people's views of Ouran Highschool host club! I watched it when I was really young, and I remember admiring Haruhi's attitude on gender. Her quote about how she would rather have people know her for who she is, rather than what sex she was resonated with me. It made me feel seen.
I'd like to share my first reactions to moments in Ouran!
- I also really hated Tamaki, even as a kid, lol. I found his overly detailed fantasies about Haruhi super creepy, and I felt like Haruhi wasn't interested in him at all. I also just thought he was annoying.
- I was too young to understand that Tamaki said a slur at Haruhi's dad, but I remember not liking how Tamaki was rude to him. I didn't know about trans people, or know about crossdressing that much, but I still thought he was cool. I felt like he was a lot like Haruhi, and I thought it was cool that he wore what he liked to wear, despite gender norms. And he was a funny, affection dad who loves his daughter.
- I also really loved the lobelia girls, lol. I loved their theatrics. I also liked how they played with gender roles, such as dressing in masculine clothing, and how they weren't afraid to show that they like women romantically.
- I also really disliked the scene where Kyoya assaulted Haruhi. Even as a child, I felt like it was really out of character and not right. So I generally skipped that part and pretended it never happened.
- overall, young me watched Ouran to fangirl over Haruhi, lol. I rooted for her to not end up romantically with anybody. (part of the reason why might have been "eww, romance is gross" from child me, but it might have also been I was unconsciously crushing on Haruhi before I knew I was queer, lol)
Another Tamaki hater yes > : )
Bruh, Haruhi is bae. I love her/him/them so much.
I don't even remember how I came across Ouran High School Host Club - but I think it helped me be more open to my own queerness in a time when there was no representation around me
and when that outro hit in the video it's like all those memories came rushing back
Its such a banger still
So glad hazel said to check this channel out, great stuff!
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR CHECKING IT OUT
I HAD TO PAUSE CUZ… BAITBUS!!! IF that’s what I’m thinking it is WHY AM I REMINDED OF THAT 😂
lmao
@@Coffee_Cakes unlocking damn memories of that and itsgonnahurt TwT
Ok so this is the first video of yours I've ever watched and I just wanted to thank you so much, I either have a really poor attention span or ADHD and how quickly you went between topics made me really happy that I could watch a video as long as 40 MINUTES. And the touch of the ohhc ending right at the end while you were talking in a sort of "this is it, huh?" Kind of tone made me so excited thinking about the last ep of ohhc anyways keep it up!!
Thank you !!!
the way Tamaki is my fav anime character of all time and this hurt my feelings 😭 lmao this was an amazing video though!!
I needed a punching bag lmao, thanks for watching !!
YOUR EDITING IS SO ON POINT.... i found myself so surprised at how sentimental i felt towards the harem genre as i watched, and your words captured those feelings perfectly!! wonderful work!!!
TY SO MUCH !!!
First time here and maybe(?) not the target demo, but it's a fascinating deep dive. (I'll let you know if i make it thru)
I make it. It was wild, insightful and...I learned something.
Thanks so much for checking it out!
Our Ouran videos seem to be linked by the algorithm :) glad to see someone else retrospecting the series!
Hell ye hi Algo buddy !!
It took me a long time to warm up to Tamaki. He just came off as so hyperactive and obsessive, always having small meltdowns when things don't go his way. He also seemed to be the most upset about Haruhi not conforming to gender norms. He mellows with time but it was a long road to get there. Personally, I thought Kaoru was best boy. He was the more mature twin and he did genuinely care about Haruhi.
The twins legit the more you watch the show come into their own and seem like the only good people lmao
Aaand now I sincerely hope that eroge gets translated and you get to finish reading it. Cool vid, thank you!
I NEED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS I STG
I loved OHSHC (except the dated terminology towards lgbt community but I don’t hate on it much considering the year it came out and how they have positive relationships with the lgbt characters rather than antagonistic) even so I never watched it for the romance. I didn’t care for shipping, tamaki vs hikaru or any of that. What really got me into it was the characters had real personalities, they had backgrounds and growth, they got you invested in them without needing a love pentagon
I feel so represented by the Gumshoe thing. Maybe the real seminal work was the niche bara flash games we played along the way.
I find it so fulfilling that Gumeshoe really was THAT BITCH for us all huh ?
Precious Park from AC4A was not a choice of soundtrack I expected for a video on Ouran, but it is most definitely welcomed lol.
Its a BANGER THO
@@Coffee_Cakes 100%
"a family really can be a gnc girlboss and her 5 twinks" had me rolling on the floor laughing 🤣
Its a TRUE modern family !
Yup, I did also watch ToraDora at 2am on a school night, violently weeping into a towel to avoid waking up my parents. I've been revisiting anime I loved and strangely, I feel like I can understand Ouran's value even more now.
Its not for everyone!
This was my first anime and changed my perception of my gender forever, love it
hell ye : )
Here from Hazel mentioning you on Drawfee! I'm same age as you so... same zoomer cusp vibes. But Ouran was one of my FIRST ever anime? but it was subbed I think? I really adore it still, but ye! Need more like it.
Seems like you and I had very similar journeys with Bara and stuff growing up... sadly really weren't many options. oh my gosh Humplex/Newgrounds references, DAMN. But ye! This was a really great video essay! Awesome stuff! A lot of this stuff is what inspired me to become an artist myself! If you wanna watch a proper yaoi anime... maybe Junjou Romantica? That was sorta from our age? I'm gonna need to track down Maison De M, I've never played or encountered it outside of still images! Nostalgic Depressed Sluts forever
Thanks so much for the support!
I think its interesting (and funny in a messed up way) that one of my favorite shows ever has such blatant transphobia... and then I turned out to be a trans gay man. Still love it though, and Haruhi really kickstarted my gender journey
Haruhi really did help so many people and I am glad of that
Yeah I first watched this show really young so I didn't realize how transphobic it really was. I think because they didn't treat Ranka badly perse. They definitely said some offensive things though
Honestly, Ouran did a lot for me as a kid. I didn't grow up in a homophobic or transphobic household at all but my family's still kinda uneducated about that stuff. Seeing a character giving not even an ounce of a fuck about their perceived gender opened my eyes to all the great possibilities that were out there for lil ol' elementary school me who didn't care for gender but felt socially pressured to express... something along the lines of traditional gender (got confused and chose the one I wasn't assigned at birth at first because it felt more neutral but oh well)
Find it interesting that the same creator behind host club being inspired by Please save my Earth. The story writer behind Sonic Adventure 2 was also inspired by that anime.
*insert obvious if I had a nickel quote here*
id have at least 2 nickles
So glad Hazel sent me here. This video absolutely slaps. Excited to check out the rest of your stuff!
TY SO MUCH
You unlocked a traumatic memory I suppressed when you brought up next.
We all have it deep down ...
i appreciate the use of Detective Gumshoe's theme when you started talking about bara. top tier
In highschool, my anime club somehow watched all of Ouran together. Its one of my favorite memories of that time. Really.. opened my eyes to some things for sure. Solid video! Love your stuff!
omg thats so cute, anime clubs are so underated and not talked about enough in video essays tbh !!
a gay irish weeb who's obsessed with bara???? She's-just-like-me-fr.jpeg
Thats me !
Omfg, I never hear anyone talk about princess jellyfish, which is one of my favorite anime
Its banger!!
GAHHHH the last 10 min hit so close to home, so surreal to see someone talking about these niche VNs i searched for hours for as a teen
I am so glad so many people relate to such a niche experience, I legit thought id be the only one !!
As someone watching in September of 2022, that Queen cameo had me on the floor XD
LMAO
merlin is in the video : )
THE LIL MANSSSS
I obviously don’t speak for everyone, but as a “tranny” myself, this is one of my favorite shows for the way both haruhi AND her dad are depicted. Their identities are totally authentic and unique. They aren’t spelled out for the audience or other characters, and they don’t need to be. It’s both a major theme and casual part of their characters at the same time. And the way they’re treated by the other characters in the show is, as ranka puts it, “refreshing!” It’s just so blunt and unfiltered, and I don’t find it mean-spirited or offensive, especially for the time period. I like this messy representation better than some more modern characters that are overly explained and have the personality of a piece of cardboard, because as “representation” they can’t be anything bad or problematic or even remotely interesting.
At the end of the day, in OHSHC everyone still genuinely loves each other even if they don’t totally get one another. Whenever the state of politics against transgender people feels like it’s swallowing me up, this is the comfort show I watch to peak into a world where it just isn’t that big of a deal. I want to know how other trans people feel about this show in the comments!
(Btw loved this video thank you for making it. Time to go watch some masc4masc hentai thank you for the recs lol)
I remember watching Ouran as a 12 year old in 2012 and absolutely loving it without any thoughts on the problematic side to it, so it's very interesting to revisit it with actual critical thinking loll.
Loved hearing your impression of it and your story with Maison de M. We all have our own niche pieces of media that we had to scoure the internet to find translations of -and being changed in the process lol
I used to think that I liked Haruhi a lot because just like her, I was also mistaken for being a boy a lot (usually cause my parents shaved my hair or kept it short because they didn't know how to maintain my curly hair). I was bullied a lot for my boyish appearance and my curly hair too. It made me like the trope of a girl being mistaken for a guy troupe. But now, years later, I realized that I am genderqueer. (Most likely genderfluid, but I am not for sure yet).
Remember watching the show in middle school and me and my cousin fell in love with it. We decided to watch it again last month and I completely forgot the t slur until watching it. I literally cackled because I forgot how poorly this dub aged. Really a mixed feeling when watching the show now as a trans girl.
ye the dub has aged like milk in a lot of places sadly
@@RabbiB0Y "I don't necessarily find slurs that bad to begin with" I'm just gonna stop you right there💀
I literally have watched this series so many times in the sub and rewatched it again and have never seen that word neither any type of rude behaviour from tamaki to haruhi’s dad
beyond happy I stumbled onto your channel! it warmed my heart that you put so much dedication into not just talking about ouran, but other anime/visual novels that are related to the broad topic at hand which is harems. I was so entertained! also so happy to find more gay anime-related content creators. as a gay trans man, I am elated you make videos!
Thank you so much for ur kind words!!
The “can you say gay rights?” clip absolutely SLAYED me 💀
Its never not funny
> see title
> click
> like
> subscribe
I’m ready to watch now
Thank you !!!
God the bit about Maison de M reminds me of how much Morenatsu ended up meaning to me as a teen who was working through being both bigender and bisexual. I had found yuri pretty early on and fallen into yuri fan circles early too so while I had issues with being treated terribly by lesbophobes (and eventually biphobes) I generally had a grasp on being a girl who liked other girls. I never really vibed with BL or yaoi though and my BL loving friends in middle school being massive lesbophobes just ended up making it vibe even less.
It took until high school when I learned about furries and started hanging out with gay furries that I started untangling more of the gender thing and my fascination with the big buff guys in the 80's action films I liked as a kid. Through things like sharing of gay Biker Mice from Mars fanfic and Morenatsu. And Morenatsu is just this unfinished gay kemono VN that I never really hear anyone talk about. But it ended up meaning a lot for me since it was the first time I ever got to really play as a guy into other dudes. And with a variety of guys to pine after! Several whom were the big guys I was more into! It meant a lot then and still does now that I'm further untangling stuff with my repressing of my gender and sexuality.
I found out like two years ago that there was a fan made attempt to remake and finish the game. Even years after the game itself had been dead. I still haven't played Homecoming but at some point I think I'll poke around through it.
I am a lil warry to ever try look into morenatsu cause its got a lot of following to it and a lot of the characters are underage. If I ever do ill probs do Homecoming cause they aged em up.
@@Coffee_Cakes Yeah that's fair. I originally played the thing when I was younger. Around the characters' ages so it didn't bother me then because, well, that was my age range.
So it is good to see that the Homecoming remake has aged the characters up to adults. They establish that very early on too from my brief looking into it, where the youngest character states he's 18.
Ouran was something I loved as a kid and I feel like we all look back on with those rose-tinted nostalgia glasses if we watched it as a kid. It definitely deserves to be reinvented as a real queer flagship, though there's definitely a lot to be desired in the series as it is-- especially the anime dub. Oof. On the plus side, if I'm remembering right Bisco Hattori did confirm... somewhere?? that Kaoru is gay so uh... diversity win?
If so that is so damn boggers
Kaoru?? I misread that as Kyoya for a second and thought 'that makes sense', but KAORU? Didn't expect that.
No, but actually, there was a whole plot where Kaoru liked Haruhi but gave up on it for his brother's sake. So that would overturn some plot to be true.
I watched Ouran 12 years ago, when I was a closeted 14 year old transgirl, still a year away from coming out as transgender, and honestly Haruhi being so genderqueer and her drag queen bisexual dad was SO influential on me! Literally changed my life in ways I can not even articulate now. Formative by the very definition of the word!
But i remember being uncomfortable with the slurs already, despite not even truly understanding why the demeaning tranny comment made me feel like that. It was a groundbreaking anime in many ways, but in others it really has not aged well... Not even through the representation of the trans-spectrum characters, just in the way they're treated as jokes by the MAIN romantic interest of Haruhi...
Haruhi really do be an icon tho
Absolutely loved this video, really hit me with some nostalgia of being an awkward weeb looking for myself in what I watched. Also I was so excited when I heard your accent and realised you were also Irish!
Hell yeah Irish rep lets go !
Had to pause and take a break after the insane bit about the poppers and the IBS. I’m subscribing.
Legit true story tho
I audibly gasped when you showed the gumshoe game, I have so many memories of trying and failing to beat that damn game as a kid.
I LOVE THAT WE ALL FOUND GUMESHOE IN THE SAME WAY
jesus me too
OMG that line about finding that dick gum shoe game spoke to my soul. I remember taking so long to find a gay romance that I actually vibed with. That eventually came for me in the form of Adastra back in 2020 (oh amicus my beloved). Still I'm glad there is at least someone else speaking on the loneliness of what its like to be a gay introvert, and having to go to the weird corners of the internet to even find anything anything you can relate to whatsoever.
Adastra is so goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood
@@Coffee_Cakes Omg you have actually read it? It feels so obscure even in gay online culture (well that or maybe I don't hang out with the furries as much as I probably should). Apparently the heart break of never being able to be with my beloved amicus is the only thing that motivates me (and yes I am referencing that awful hour and a half video essay I made on Adastra over a year ago now).
@@blossomingdesire7672 Well I am a furry so, that helps lmao
30 seconds in and I aggressively hit subscribe. Also, Tenchi Muyo is totally a Harem Anime. A GREAT one, but still a Harem Anime for sure lmao.
I'm so glad I found your channel. Your jokes are...whatever is above A+? S Class? You got S Class humor and I'm here for it.
Thank you so much this comment is so sweet!!
Oh hell yea , (specifically ive been wanting an analysis of ouran high school for a while and im super interested!!!)
I hope you enjoy it !!!
I was hikaru team too!!! glad to see someone else thinks tamaki is weird selection for main boy XDDD
He just sucks is the thing
My little monster was the first anime I ever watched and fell in love with! As a fellow 25 year old it was really cool! Loved your video style and editing and great points! Host club definitely has its flaws but is my comfort anime!
Great video 🥰
My Little Monster is legit so good and I may so day have to make a vid on it
Lord your commentary in this is pure gold!!! I’m dying!!!
Thank you so much !!
that slur wasn't really considered a slur back then... it was more the terminology used for people like that. it's obviously outdated, but those of us who identify with those words (queers like me) have reclaimed them. and honestly, everyone in OHSHC is queer in some way, haha.
it's ok to talk about it critically, of course, but we def can't hold this show to our standards of today.
if anything, what we should be fully criticizing it for its the random Nazi visual from the lesbian school.
Ye thats why its nuts to go back to
no cause ohshc was such a big thing for me. i still have all the manga. i love haruhi so much and back then i didnt even know why (and now look at me. queer, non-binary, and somehow i only recently realized i now basically have her same haircut as well). she was such a cool character in my eyes.
funnily enough the OTHER manga i was obsessed with was hana kimi. in which a teenaged girl disguises herself as a boy to go to the same high school as her high-jump idol does, but its an all-boys school. hmmm..... in hindsight....something smelled very gender-y here.....
OHSHC is a really important anime to me, it was my first real exposure to gender non-conformity as a kid. It was quite literally an awakening for me, because I could never really verbalize my own experiences before. I attribute my ability to proudly be myself as a non-binary person to the rabbit hole this anime sent me down.
Its so cool this show changed so many peoples gender