My narcissistic mother was "social worker". She worked in a shelter for domestic violence victims. My heart breaks for all those women she probably made suffer. I asked her one day if any of her clients ever went back to their husbands? She laughed and said to me "almost all of them do".
I disagree with you on borderline therapists. A borderline who has done their own work and gotten themselves stable will have an elevated sense of compassion, as well as first hand experience navigating and managing overwhelming emotions. All this said, though... you aren't going to exactly find a therapist's own diagnosed conditions on their PsychologyToday profile anyway.
@@dshigure I agree 100%. One of my therapists IS borderline and she is utterly amazing! She totally understands, really listens, and has compassion and empathy. She has taught me techniques to cope with and overcome mental health struggles, and I have found these essential to my progress. The idea anyone would dismiss her simply for being BPD is absurd, she's been incredibly helpful and positive in my life!
Dr. Ramani, you should create a school or a course for all the therapist around the world to learn how to help their patients who suffer this type of abuse.
I think these videos are the school in a way lol! I was lucky. My therapist was trauma informed and really understood the narc abuse dynamics plus she had her own experiences in this arena. Therapy and Dr. Ramani's and other RUclips videos really helped my journey out of this situation. I used to share Dr. Ramani videos with my therapist. So grateful for all of this life saving learning.
No, it should be part of the degree curriculum and until that happens, most therapists will sadly continue to be well-intentioned, yet useless due to curriculum being decades behind..
My 1st therapist said, “Well we don’t want to label people.” When she said, “You know, some people thrive in narcissistic relationships.” That was our last session.
It takes a brave person in therapy to say ''no thanks' to their therapist and their approach of healing, even if it is just NOT returning for the next session. Yes - we could communicate on some 'misunderstandings' on either side, but sometimes you do need to be completely sure about the ''game changes' statements. If you don't feel they 'get it'' or are undermining you or diminishing your sorrow and your assertiveness to re establish good boundaries falls on deaf ears. .... you always have choices. And to be honest I feel a therapist may 'fit'' you for a limited time/limited problem or you may out grow them. Hopefully you keep moving forward with progress, and then you can reflect back and think ''If I didn't have that experience with that therapist, I wouldn't be able to segway onto this stage/space with this insight and type of problem solving, with the next one". Building a step onwards/upwards to have more awareness for the next chapter. But do expect times of real plateauing and feeling like you are getting nowhere. Like life sometimes... 3 steps forward 1 back. At least show up for yourself...if you wait for others to...you are going to be disappointed. My therapist laughed when I told her "I go to therapy ... so I can put up with the people - who should be in therapy"". A saying I saw somewhere.
Well done! The therapist is there for you, its not your role or duty to educate the therapist. Offcource it takes some adjusting from both sided, but coming from a narcissistic relationship, I think you have adjusted enough 😉😃
Therapy, yoga, meditation, detachment, no contact, working out, educating myself... this is what I focused on to get my power back. Focusing on yourself is key!
Dont go there. Its satanic. It heals for a moment and then you go deeper in yourself what gonna make you narcistic yourself. Dont go after aaron dpughty, teal swan etc.... All of this is New Age. I was there. I was abused and i went into shadow work, ancient healing, yoga ,meditqtion, breath work... its distructive after while JESUS CHRIST SAVED ME. You dont need qnything. Just pray to him and answers about therapy and people you shpuld surround yourself with will come. I promisse its distructive. Dont go there. I was saved from trauma thru him. I was 5 years busy with all this New age stuff (new , modern satanism) but it will bring you just deeper after while. Watch from New Age to Jesus - narcistic abuse on yt . I will pray for you. I just left the seed that you probably need. God bless You. You can do it
@attractarattigan3574 you will have a "new normal". You will become wiser, stronger and more discerning. Take the lessons you learnt, painful as they may be, and let them become the fuel the moves you forward. Life is about how we respond to what comes our way. I have confidence in you. Level up by climbing on top of your disappointments. Never let them crush you because you're made of sterner stuff. I'm rooting for you 👏
When I told my therapist that I'd realized my whole marriage was a sham, she said, "No. HE was a sham". I can't tell you how much I needed to hear that.
“After going through narcissistic abuse, people don’t always trust their instincts. Let this be the day and let this be the process that leads you to start to trust yours.”
Luckily my therapist BELIEVES me and defends me. Others think you should just get over it and come back into the environment with the narcissist. He is giving me the time and space to find my new purpose.
That's awesome, Carrie. Therapists like that are rare. Having been involved in professional education of therapists, I can say that. So many priceless pearls in this video!
It’s the same with me, thankfully. My current therapist actually believes me at face value when I tell him the terrible things my narcissistic family did to me that made me so miserable. These days I don’t have to keep dealing with the reactions of incredulousness as if I was dishonest or I had a distorted perception of events that I constantly went through with previous therapists. I realize now that it was tribal gaslighting and it was so exhausting and wasted so much precious time. An empathetic therapist that’s actually good at their job makes the healing process happen so much smoother and quicker.
Do not ever go back to the narcissist. They will drain you. Use you. Lie, cheat and steal. I recently got out of one, I work with her and if my intuition is correct, her new supply. They both look at me in just, the most guilt ridden "wtf is he gonna do or say next" type of way. See I told her, without naming anyone, that I knew and that I can see through both of them. Maybe I shouldn't be so personal, there's a bunch of details spared for the sake of, a lot of things. Just know that, it's so much better without that type of person in your life. They will just take and take and take and only give when they want to take more. Don't lose hope. Don't gaslight yourself into thinking you're wrong or crazy, that's their goal. Do not let them have control or power over you. You will be fine.
The therapist told me to simply stop playing victim. Hence why I am so very grateful for these videos online and the community, they have helped immensely in the healing journey.
@@faithmoody7212 Seems so on the surface. I remember some brutal truths from 25 years ago from a therapist( family therapy with a narcissist who quit and blamed me 4 sessions in) doing a splendid job. That day my sister quit, the therapist took me aside and said” Your family will never meet your emotional needs’ point blank and straight up. She was also my sisters therapist. These words echo 25 years later as validation.The point I am trying to make is that a good therapist might have to be blunt enough to tell someone to stop playing the victim.
there's a difference between being blunt and reinforcing a gaslighting/abusive partner. The therapist who was honest with you did the opposite of the one who said "stop playing victim." @@geraldfriend256
@@geraldfriend256 I agree with you , I had a friend tell me I was addicted to my story and as long as I was going to be a victim that’s what I will be and yes narcissist are master manipulators and good at what they do but at the same time I have to take a look in the mirror and take accountability for myself because I allowed these things to happen to me… sometimes the truth hurts but u need to hear it sometimes in order to grow and learn
What that narcissist said was conservative-talk. Avoid all conservative-behaving narcissists like the plague, because that's what they are. The plague.
I went to a couples therapist in the late 1985. After her testing us, interviewing us together, as well individually, she said on the fourth visit "Get rid of him." and then with a pause she added, "He's a narcissist. He doesn't think he's doing anything wrong." She held her closed hands in the air, one high one low and preceded with, "When you get your self-esteem (low hand wiggle) up to where it should be, ( high hand wiggle ), you wouldn't even date a man like him." at that time I was only aware of the Greek mythology tale of Narcissus. I thought it m
Thats class she sounds like she was down to earth snd kind of fun. A lot of ones i had just repeated ..and how did that make you feel and nodded their heads a lot. Hated them. They seemed like bloody narcs themslves. My ex bbf was a therapist healer bullshit artist. Lol.
This is such a problem. Back when I was 16 and managed to sneak myself into therapy under the false pretense of tackling my ADHD, when actually I went to discuss my parents, the therapist, god bless 'im, actually suggested bringing my parents INTO THERAPY WITH ME. I laughed outloud when he first suggested it, and told him that wasn't going to happen. They'd never agree and they'd make a scene. But, he managed to convince me into it, filling me with dangerous hope that "maybe they're more understanding than you think." All of us children of narcissists know how dangerous hope is with these relationships. Went home to suggest it, my mother freaked the hell out. She chucked laundry and shoes at me and shrieked at the top of her lungs about how I'm trying to "ruin her life" and that they're only paying for therapy for me because "you're the crazy one, not me." Dad was equally appalled, though he was more of an "appearances" narc than a violent one like my mom. But, they agreed after sleeping on it the next day. I should have suspected something, but I didn't. Too full of hope. They went to the therapy session, and caused an embarrassing scene. The therapist tried to talk to them, and they basically declared that they were paying him to fix me and not them, screamed at me AND at him, then finally stormed out after maybe 10 minutes, slamming the door behind them. Me and him just sat in awkward silence for about a minute before he turned to me and sort of lamely said, "I'm so sorry." He ended the session early, and I got back in the car we all drive together in, and they spent the car ride home cackling, making fun of the therapist, and telling me that they hoped I realized nothing was going to change. After I was exposed, they refused to pay for my therapy any further so, being a 16 year old, I was forced to terminate since I couldn't pay. I just hope that interaction taught that therapist something, and I hope he never forgot.
I'm a 36 year old finally starting to heal and progress, but my therapist suggested bringing in parents. She's great, and it's not the same as with a 16 year old, but your comment will help me voice my concerns
Same with me same age. Parents really send kids there to find reason to label the kids and point at them for parental problems. Like tough love is a nazi training camp to give parents tools and the okay to target blame andv remove responsibility for their kids .
a psychiatrist once told me that my "perception" of my mother as a narcissist was due to my underlying mental health problems..and when I went to therapy after a divorce from my narcissistic ex husband, the therapist told me that she felt we were both equally responsible, and that I must've been sending him mixed signals for him to act the way he did 😳😤...I'm a licensed counselor myself, and would never say these things to any of my clients! they were legit gaslighting me in a space that is meant to be safe.
@Stephanie W I went through very similar experiences with the psychiatrists and therapists I’ve had who were gaslighting me. Some of those experiences are recent. Thanks to Dr. Ramani, I am now able to recognize the signs that I’m being gaslighted and I could potentially be dealing with either a narcissist or a narcissist’s enablers. You know when you’re dealing with an incompetent member of the mental health field. Not everyone is good at their job. Many are not. Trust your instincts.
This is such a life-affirming statement that truly highlights the whole work of DoctorRamani and her contribution to this planet infested with narcs! Thanks for pointing it out here.
@@camerong5513 If you've lived a lifetime where you've blamed yourself for everything, realizing that you've experienced abuse and having it validated by even ONE person can be the impetus to move forward and start making changes for the better. People don't exist in vacuums and we have to understand what stuff belongs to us and what belongs to other people. For people geared toward self-blame, being told to "reframe our thinking" in therapy can have a similar impact as gaslighting. It doubles down on the responsibility for other people's emotions and actions we've been asked to shoulder our whole lives.
@@80islandia well reframing CAN help. Did you waste your time or learn how u DIDN'T want to be treated? Are you a victim or are you FREED? What you tell yourself, YOU BELIEVE it. Some folks HOLD ON to things bc even the thought of letting THAT go hurts. They want to have SOMETHING of that person still with them even if it's bad. I'll give an example. And it's sorta weird. After the discard, I ironically couldn't throw anything away. I couldn't move the candle in the windowsill, and I found a little ball of hair from her brush where she sat and combed her hair. For the LIFE OF ME, I don't know why I just could NOT throw it away. I guess it felt like I was throwing HER away and getting rid of HER. This concept can apply to letting things go. Holding on to bad memories and what not is at least having SOMETHING of them still around you. Because NOTHING of them around you feels worse. This is for those who were discarded bc usually the ones who left the narc were just FED UP and anything repulses them. At times folks can't really move on and they point at what the narc did to them 10+ years ago. It's called prolonged grief. The DSM 6 that's coming out will begin discussing this. Prolonged grief is a real thing. It actually can impact someone so bad rhey legit can NOT move on. In 2005 I felt this for 3 years until I met this one I was with in 2008. It actually was like magic how the narc took all that pain away. It WAS the mind reframing. It was so effective, I can actually go back and look at that ex person and just feel flat. No anger, no joy, no hate or anxiety just another person in the world. The problem with it, is THEY held on to it as it collected intrest per se and gave it right back to me 100x more. The "hey dave, u remember this? You can have it BACK now plus more" If done positively, it really can help people. The narc does what therapist do. That's why they're so affective at what they do. The difference is the narc has been doing it most their life and for negative purposes, where the therapist has been doing it for a few years for positive purposes. They both open you up. One looks to DESTROY and the other looks TO HEAL.
Dr Ramani as a clinician I’m waiting for your training for us . After watching you I’ve completed an additional certificate and continue to learn to practice best with my clients . I’m also teaching my grad students, I don’t want them to exit grad school like I did without this info , it’s horrifying to think of the gaslighting and damage that can be done .
If you are a professor at a graduate school, have you gone to your boss to get a course on narcissism? Or is he too much of a narcissist to do that, after all, universities are hot beds for it.
@@MrNeptunebob hi Robert , no they are working with me to create curriculum and I’ve also taught it as a part of my trauma class. We are working together to make the changes needs that clients and students deserve ☺️
That's good, but why do you suppose knowing about narcissism has not happened before? Students pay tens of thousands of dollars for college and graduate school, the least we could get is the right answers.
Thank you for pursuing this.. 🦋 I want to trust that more and more learned professionals (grad and under grad) will open to this critical material as you have. Enriching the focus of recovery and healing in Clinical settings world wide would save lives, children/ families, careers, etc. Wounded society needs so much more.. let’s hope for a National Health Care System that includes all people while we’re imagining change!
I had a couples therapist ( I was almost ready to admit I wanted a divorce from the narcissist) He only went to therapy- after me asking him for years- only because he relapsed (he's an alcoholic as well) and his job was in jeopardy. His new emotional supply was his work, so he went. Our therapist said " well you guys have already been together for 9 years, you don't want to throw that away!" I was so shocked- she was pushing the sunken cost fallacy on me. That's how ppl stay on bad relationships and bad investments. People want to change the outcome of a bad decision by putting more energy or money into it. Just cut your losses and run, don't waste any more time. You can't make people love you by giving them more of what they already don't appreciate.
My counselor used to said to, "no matter how good a husband is, will never be enough for you". that's the 1st & last I talk to her. that's so triggering me because I did everything best I could until I'm physically & mentally drained. she'll never understand what i've been through..
The biggest thing I just learned is that the trauma bond is just like being a drug addict. That. That completely resonates with me. And now I really believe I can move forward.
EARLY ON in their trap (of 2.5 years), I FELT ADDICTED TO HIS CONTACT (I felt like he did a spell on me, literally)! I had NO conscience experience of this type of addition/trauma bonding... But after the 3rd attempt (within a year) to break away from this LONG DISTANCE INTERNET CONMAN, I nose-dived into educating myself about Narcissism & the Narcissist Cycle - SPOT ON, Trauma Bonding & became suicidal (after being a suicide survivor 3 years ago - AND HE TALKED ME OUT OF GOING BACK ON ANTI-DEPRESSANTS)! I found DR RAMANI, 1-on-1 counseling & a support group for healing/supporting women of abusive relationships. GOD SHOWED ME THE TRUTH & WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT. God blesses us/knows our hearts 💕. NARCISSISTS/DEVIL ENERGY - WILL NEVER WIN - OVER OUR LIGHT WITHIN. Hang tight, fellow light-workers, in this dark world we live in! ❤️🙏❤️
I went to a therapist to figure out what I needed to do to save my marriage. We started by working on my self-worth and she recommended a book for me to take a look at. As my sense of self worth grew I realized I didn’t want to save my marriage. She helped me understand what was going on around me in my life. She helped me make sense of the craziness. When I was ready she supported my leaving. I was lucky.
Yes! So true, it took me around 4 months on my own to start feeling kind of happy again... I had to take it slow minute by minute, day by day. The times I have to visit, my healing progress looses momentum and I tangibly feel drained and depleted of energy, looking forward to going no contact.
Dr. Ramani, I'm a therapist and have been watching your channel for years. You have helped me so much with my personal healing journey, as well as my growth as a therapist working with narcissist abuse survivors. I struggle so much with finding other therapists who support narcissistic abuse work. Most don't understand the complexity of narcissism. Thank you so much for the work you do! This specific video provided so much validation in what I've been trying so hard to communicate to other therapists, including supervisors. Thank you!
I am always hesitant to bring up the abuse bc I feel like people will judge me for victimizing myself AND that I’m probably not right about them being narcissistic. And the narcissist is so good at doing things in a way where if you tell someone what they did, it doesn’t seem like a bad thing. I am having a hard time finding a good therapist.
Got invalidated by psychiatrists and therapists for over 10 years now! Saying some how it seemed I was “overreacting”, “too sensitive”, “not behaving normally” yikes! I was put on medication for schizophrenia because my shrink was convinced I was making up my nmom’s words and coercive control.. sigh gaslit by my shrink. It took another couple of years and few better therapists who finally started not judging me and listening to what I had to say. Thank u thank u thank u Dr. Ramani!🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️
Sadly, there are not a lot of therapists who are even trained to define personality disorders, or are too afraid of consequences when it comes to treating Borderline Personality Disorder. My therapist diagnosed the differences between Borderline and BiPolar disorder in the first session I had with her 3 years ago. I have a daughter with BiPolar disorder and one with BPD. Her support and understanding have been phenomenal because BPD is a twisted terrain. Hard to navigate, but the support of watching you, Dr. Ramani , has been a cornerstone of my on-going recovery. Thank you for your wisdom and for not “talking down” to people. Your language style and depth of content are reassuring that intelligent life forms are present and can guide us through this volatile situation.
Only Licensed psychologists, phd level, and psychiatrists can diagnose personality disorders or other mental illnesses. Just like only doctors can diagnose illnesses. Diagnose is a legal term. So other therapists, counsellors, social workers shouldn't diagnose by law!, they can suggest what it may be, or what it looks like. They should be working on the effects of the behaviour, vs. Labels.
@@joywebster2678 I understand what you’re saying. Please understand I am a psychologist and the person helping me was not diagnosing my daughter, she was giving me a framework to understand the difference of a mood disorder and a personality disorder. In our family, my daughters are second generation recipients of these mental challenges. Legally, I’m curious if a therapist cannot help a mother trying to understand her troubled daughters.
@@joywebster2678 I had an incompetent therapist who told me I showed symptoms of several personality disorders without diagnosing me officially. My later therapists all disagreed with her assessment I had any personality disorders and the reasons she gave weren’t valid. I think she was projecting onto me as she projected her other character flaws onto me. Now that I can recognize the signs, I realized she is a narcissist. What a waste of time being treated by one.
@@martiemcbride9420 you said clearly she diagnosed the difference in first session. Perhaps you mean she described the difference between the two disorders and how they work. There is a WORLD of difference between those two statements.
My therapist has a "day job" working at the VA, so she sees the affects of trauma/PTSD all the time. She helped me understand what I was going through in a really caring way. She did say directly to me, "you are being gaslighted," which was a huge shift in perspective for me. I am so thankful for her support.
I'm seeing VA people in Feb. I told them on the initial appointment call last week with the PhD I dont trust therapy anymore, I just need medication for my focus issues (a source of parental abuse for my struggle to make them look good with ace report cards). But after this video and your experience I may try once more (just once more). I saw a VA phych MD in DC and he was largely disinteredly typing as I spilled my guts. Then finally at long last said I had "mild depression" and that was that. Session over. Go home and work on it on my own I guess. (MILD depression?? Fkn MILD???) Among other examples I just dont have much trust anymore. Maybe 15yrs later in CA with female attentiveness I can turn it around. I may send her this video and kindly ask her to watch it before our intake meeting in Feb.
@@C.Church I can't believe I'm doing this... but I'm in CA, and if you need a friend, respond. I'm in Norcal . I'm honestly at the point that if a therapist hasn't experienced this stuff, they aren't going to be able to help me. Ugh. Anyway I'm a good supportive listener and I understand at least. And the hilarious part is im expat from Va!! Just a funny link that kinda made me reach out.
One thing that has worked for me is recording myself saying my affirmations, and then listening to the recording every morning after meditation. It has worked to really build love and confidence in myself and also shatter the cognitive dissonance that I had about the narcissists in my life.
I would warn against "trauma informed" therapists. Always look at the therapists personal beliefs and agendas. For example, they may be trauma informed but deny such things as narcissism or betrayal trauma. Also may believe in parental alienation and that children are better off with both parents no matter the circumstances. So remember that therapists are people and pay attention to you gut when they are telling you something that just feels off, denies or contradicts your experience.
Excellent advice!! You are 100% correct! There’s no technical specific type of therapist that will help in these kinds of abuse. It’s all about finding one who’s beliefs align with yours as you mentioned.
I live in the UK, I’m being abused by a adult son, I’ve watched Doctor R’s many videos and it’s helped me understand Narcissist and the abuse they inflict. I’m beside myself with grief and fear, but when I go to a doctor, I’m told to have therapy on the NHS takes months of waiting, I did in the past find a therapist but their was little understanding on the subject, I felt unheard and as though I was whinging, the abuse continues , and I want to know how to cope, it’s heart breaking when it’s your son .
By now whenever somebody tells me I shouldn't diagnose people since I am not a therapist I tell them I am not diagnosing anybody...narcissist is just a nicer way to say ass*ole
Amen! I'm still being punished by my husband for telling him he was being an a**h*** 12years ago! I didn't know about narcissism and how badly any criticism would affect him. I call it as I see it. I figure you are so right! If they don't like it they would change their behavior but I was told it was my fault because I was name calling and too judgemental until I walked into the office with a swollen mouth from him slamming a door on me as I was walking through it. Then all I ever heard was I had to leave. I couldn't I was already his prisoner and no one ever understood that. I finally made it out and have had my own place since September. 11 years of trying to escape and I finally did it. Yay!
@@beccapears7573 Cheers to your Freedom dear!!! That and educating ourselves in order to avoid similar situations in the future are the only things that matter!!! P.S. it was 10 years for me too 😉. Good job!
Therapists have done so much damage to my recovery. I don’t think I’ll ever go back to therapy. But survivorship groups, support groups and shamanism has helped way more than therapy has.
One of the first things we tell victims trying to leave abusers--don't go to therapy with them! Yes, many therapists are not only invalidating, they keep us trapped. I went to many therapists during my 19 year narcissistic marriage. "Your husband loves you, you are misinterpreting his behavior." smh Therapists want to tell you you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Abuse victims are making molehills out of mountains. We need to be drawn out.
I told my therapist what was happening how I was being treated etc. She listened but just heard me like mirroring back. I think it was CBT she was doing but said but what do I do? She said stay. I stopped seeing her. We went to marriage counseling and he had charts and how to appreciate each other etc. Well what I needed to do was get away from an angry nasty man. And I did. Therapists need to read people and situations not apply a general methodology! It's only when I found you I finally figured it out!
Being asked by my therapist to take responsibility for my “part in the struggles” of our relationship was retraumatizing. Any grasp of reality I was gaining came crashing down everytime I’d try to communicate. These suggestions were SPOT ON - trauma informed, flexible frameworks, groups supports.
Finding the right therapist is key. My daughter’s therapist told me, she was never going to get better if her home was not a place of safety. She then said I had a big decision to make. That’s when I realized that I had to separate from her dad. Many signs before that, but that was the final push I needed. My child’s mental health came first. Note: this appt was after her release from a hospital for self harm
@@sarahrobertson634 wow.. guess you have never been in a mentally abusive relationship where you don’t know which way is up. It’s taken me years to work through my guilt in not recognizing sooner. Great job victim blaming 10 out of 10.
I so wish my father had made the decisions you did to protect your kid, and it makes me so happy that there are parents out there that put their children's healing first. My brother and I have both been in the hospital for mental health issues stemming from our abusive upbringings, and my dad choosing to stick his head in the sand and keep his marriage together despite knowing we got abused did an incredible amount of damage to his children. Thank you for putting your daughter first.
@@KitKat-gw4rh thank you. That was my primary point about finding the right therapist. We had seen several therapist before this that tried to get us to resolve the issues as a family unit. To Dr Romani’s point that many therapist focus on keeping the family together. This therapist was brutally honest and what I needed to hear. Finding the right therapist is critical.
in a lot of ways I believe persisting with my last therapist harmed me more than it helped me. I know her intent was good, however once I opened up about my parents’ alcoholism and their narcissistic tendencies, she would mention her childhood or how she related - and it began to appear that she got more use out of me than I did out of her. Now I realize she likely took my judgements of my parents as insults or judgement toward her parents - It felt like her questions were to benefit her, rather than help me cope or learn anything about myself. she denied validating any form of narcissism or narcissistic tendencies within my parents, and insisted I was severely depressed and avoiding the issues within myself. I spent the last two years ruminating, avoiding therapy, and believing I was broken beyond repair until I found your channel. I have began searching for a therapist I mesh with and hope I can get my life back while I’m still in my 20s. Thank you Doctor Ramani. I owe you big time.
Yeesh. It would be great if therapists have dealt with a lot of their own 'stuff' before helping others. At the least therapists should not be dragging their own stuff into their sessions like that. We are blessed Dr. Ramani shares her insights for free here😊
You go, Zoe! We sure do lose recovery time when we question ourselves after interacting with an unskilled therapist! Glad you shrugged her off. I takes what it takes!
I'm sorry to hear that in the beginning...hug. I had a therapist who seemed to talk just to hear herself talk; she was not really listening to me. Felt so relieved to leave her. So I know what you mean.
That’s such a shame, she should not be practicing as she keeps on harming others instead of helping and forcing people to seek therapy online or through self help books instead of trusting their own therapists
You need a trauma informed therapist, for sure. Someone who understands PTSD. Someone who combines DBT with ACT. A therapist focussing on self compassion and who knows how to help you work on that. A therapist who also models what setting healthy boundaries looks like, "defends" you from yourself when you beat yourself up emotionally, and who helps you to practice self compassion so that you can naturally set healthy boundaries. Because folks like us HATE the thought of boundaries, as we think they destroy connection and are "unnatural". A good therapist will make it easy for you to ease into this through ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy) in a way that does not FEEL like you are putting up walls. They will give you terminology that works for you: for example, mine gave me the phrase, "drawing a line in the sand." The word "boundaries" made me think of concrete walls that I could not connect to the world thru, whereas a line in the sand (in my consciousness) still allows me to see everything. Get a therapist who can help you say to yourself compassionately, "I am a trauma survivor." I found that after I could say this, it freed up everything in my body, mind and heart to actually grieve. Whereas before, my grief was laced with so many other emotions....which isn't inherently bad, but for me it wasn't as productive as when the grief finally hit in a very direct way. Thank you SO much, Dr. Ramani, for all that you do. You really help us all.
I recently met with a therapist because I was ending a relationship with a narcissist after 3 years. I had tried to end it several times this last year but kept going back and needed help to finish it completely- she knew this prior to our first session. During our first and only session her response to me stating he is emotionally abusive and has narcissistic tendencies was to say "everyone has narcissistic tendencies, I have narcissistic tendencies, you do too" I felt discounted and ignored- pretty familiar feeling by now. When I explained the ways he gaslighted me she said in a manor I took as condemning "Why haven't you just left him?" I wanted to yell out "because he groomed me"- she knew I had tried to leave him. Today is the 8th day I have had him blocked without any contact. I ended it by phone and told him to give all my stuff to Godwill. I told him I was too sensitive for the relationship so he could just focus on blasting me for that and it wouldn't affect me much because I knew any person on this earth is too sensitive for that relationship, so it didn't actually hurt me and the fact that he went straight to unloading on me for that just proved yet again that he doesn't care about my feelings or any truth, he will just grab whatever comment he can to hurt me, confuse me, or punish me regardless of the truth. We are stronger and smarter now. We are survivors!
Good job!! I left my stbx of 18yrs, 6 months ago. He’s blocked, and he blocked our kids, found him a new supply with 2 tween children, within a month of me leaving. This was probably my 7th attempt at leaving. He was becoming more violent and was going to snap and finally put his hands on me. Enough was enough. I’m really happy you got out of that situation. We all deserve healthy love. The narcissist charm, is not real. It’s like the bait at the end of a fishing line, and nothing more. Hang in there. It’s not easy, but as the days pass, it does get a little easier. Just keep it real with yourself and remember exactly who they are, not the nice version your mind will try to hold onto💜
They can be so condescensing ...i think what everyone wants is to be heard by the therapist and the issue youre facing has some skills or steps or ideas that are msising they could suggest to us as ideas or choices we may not have thoight of. To ask why havent you left is like saying to a person with an eating disroder causing obesity have you tried not eating the whole cake. 🤔 its a atupid question as well if you knew why you hadnt left youd have left already. Lol. Why havent you lost the weight? Gaaah!
She really got me from day one. The most important thing for me was going no contact. Otherwise I kept getting emotionally battered and could never heal. I started therapy 2 years later. My "wounds" are 60 years old. Good luck to everyone who suffered or is suffering right now. Remember it is not our fault❤
It's not our fault ❤ We have to constantly remind ourselves that we have a choice to walk away, go no contact, state a boundary, speak up, keep ourselves safe and healthy as much as possible. We are not stuck, we have a choice ❤🙏
@@domoniquekyle7590 I totally understand your words. You have got to try and push yourself even when you do not feel like it. I'm a Christian woman who believes in the hope and the promises of Jesus. My counselor is also a Christian counselor oh, you have got to step out of your comfort zone. Being grateful for a new day to start over. Don't sit and overthink letting your mind and the devil feed you doubts. Find some good Godly Fellowship friends. Ones that do not judge you and are always happy to see you. When I separated from my family who always wanted control over me and mentally and physically abusive period it left me living alone but I would not change it back for anyting.. they only value people from what they can get from them. It took me back to my home Church where I feel welcomed and comfortable. I hope this helps you. God bless
I went to an awesome therapist that specialized in PTSD and Anger Management that worked with many Vets who had him completely diagnosed with NPD within 20 minutes of speaking to him. She told me to run not walk. She said I wasn't the one who needed the therapy it was him. He had me convinced it was me with the issues Lol
As a child I tried going to therapy with a narcissistic mother. She did a session by herself and by the next session we were suddenly focused on my role in the “issues” and how I was actually the abuser/problem child. It felt like being in the twilight zone. My mother was an incredibly convincing liar & instead of showing up for therapy prepared to do the work she manipulated the situation into just another tactic for keeping me in line. I couldn’t understand how this therapist wasn’t able to recognize what was happening.
@@Daydreamer-o1m Man I feel for all you lovely people. My sincerest regrets you endured that shiz. I can relate. It fn sucks and is a back blast into regressed development as you turn into a cornered wounded animal for them to point fingers, " See? Baring your teeth is not for proper young ladies. Get in line and stop abusing your mother after all she does for you." As the abusive mother smirks in satisfaction only you can see.
My therapist saw right away what was going on and started with self-parenting therapy and focus on boundaries. The boundaries have been life changing! I didn’t realize I grew up a boundaryless person. Between my therapy and your videos, I am a new healthier person, and so positive about the future!
I’m seeing a cognitive behavioral therapist, and she told me “at least he didn’t hit you or steal your money”. Then she told me that the narcissist was merely annoying and not abusive. She told me to consider that I needed to change my thoughts and realize that people don’t always behave the way I want them to. It was really invalidating and frustrating.
Hi Bonnie, I know you’ll probably never see this. But I’m so sorry you were further harmed by this therapist who did that to you, they were probably a narc as well. Some people just shouldn’t be in medicine of any kind. I hope that you found the right kind of help, and that you are thriving beyond narcissistic abuse. Love, Bonnie Faith
I just got an email notification that there was a reply! Thank you for your kind words and support. After I wrote this I looked up what constitutes a good therapist and realized mine matched none of them. You’re right- some people don’t belong in a field that involves helping others. I was able to find someone much better and am in a good place now. Thanks again for reaching out.
Things that have been helpful with recovery from my narcissistic relationship are listening to myself, taking care of my hormonal levels, eating healthy, but also letting myself eat something I crave in a moment, spending time with my puppy, taking a ballet class, reading, talking to friends who have an understating of this, taking CBG & CBD, meditation, yoga, jogging, reading, praying, lying in bed and getting myself cozy up whenever I feel like, being able to work from home and have flexible hours, journaling, listening to good music, meeting new friends, spending time in nature and taking walks, writing songs and singing, and of course, watching almost all Dr. Ramani's videos 🥰
Yes. Me too - all these things plus speaking up in online spaces to help others. My healing is going on three years though - still experience trauma effects - because I have very few who can hear me talk about what happened. People still unintentionally deny my reality by not believing me. Plus I'm still not in a safe living space.
@@juliekong5013 Very true. I found only people who also have been through psychological abuse, specifically narcissistic abuse, understand what it’s like and don’t invalidate the experiences we went through. Even well intentioned people don’t seem to get it because this kind of mind f-k is beyond most people’s understanding if they didn’t didn’t personally go through it themselves.
Dr. Ramani, after watching countless videos of you speaking on this topic, I feel no one would compare to you. And that's okay! Finally learning to set my expectations and standards higher. Coming from a very narcissistic family and then being in narcissistic relationships over the years, crumbs were all I felt I deserved. I now have set my standards higher, including any therapist that I go to. I just wish I was in the same city as you and I would be on your doorstep. 😊 Keep up the good work! You are healing a lot of people. ❤️
Being gaslit by the world at large is one of the reasons I've endured so much trauma and abuse by so many different people and it's one of the main reasons why I didn't know that leaving was even an option.
Two therapists told me that my mother "simply was afraid of losing me". I had not even said that I thought she might be a narcissist. How nice, you seek help and the therapist takes the side of your abuser...
After a twenty year marriage to a narcissist, I, my children and the cat managed to get away with our.lives and sanity more or less intact. I had returned from war in the Middle East, came home with PTSD. I had five years of trauma counselling and I came through it, with a PTSD Counsellor. We went through everything and he helped me move on.
I had a therapist that I started seeing that told me that I needed to stop being a victim when I was telling her the abuse that I was getting from my narcissistic ex. 🙄 I dropped her after the third session, and I found a therapist who after hearing my story asked if I had ever heard of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. After she said that, the card fell into place and I realized I was with a very toxic narcissist and she helped me to break free of him. Finding a therapist who gets it is absolutely key to getting over the abuse from these individuals.
Amen to point #2! The first therapist I saw was trained cognitive behavioral, and the thing that I felt hampered my recovery was her discounting my history of what happened. She was extremely focused on the moment and the past didn't really matter. It mattered to me! I had to deal with a narc mother who gaslighted me into thinking the world was an evil place where no one could be trusted. It lead to many years of trust issues with friends, classmates, teachers, boyfriends, co-workers and bosses. Validating someone's past trauma with a narc is vital and should never be swept under the rug.
“If the person is being gaslighted by the world at large, it makes being gaslighted in their relationships much worse” - as an LGBTQ+ survivor of abuse this sentence was so powerful. Thank you for seeing us and getting it Dr Ramani.
The thing I’ve experienced most from the numerous counselors I’ve seen is silencing and invalidation. The one I was forced to see recently won’t allow me to talk about the abuse and the fact of the matter is that though it’s been so many years in “therapy “ I haven’t talked about any of it. This was partially due to the fact that I was so traumatized I blocked out my memories until I was almost 60. I couldn’t remember anything. But some of it was because the “therapists “ didn’t really want to hear about it. They silenced me just like my abusers did. It’s been a horrible experience with them. None of them knew how to handle someone as traumatized as me. Without money in America I found you get the worst of the worst as far as therapists go.
I really do appreciate this video. I’ve been to several different therapists who do not really validate what I’ve been through. I feel like I’m drowning in the deep end of the pool and everyone is screaming, “hey! If you just swim you’ll be ok”. But I can’t swim. at 5 months out, the depression is deep and pervasive. The feeling of pathological loneliness. I do what I can, meditate, pray, go to my 12-step program, journal, exercise, read, and work as a nurse. But, the most important things in life, family, friends do not understand and I believe see me as a failure and a foolish woman who has made one bad choice after another. At 53, I’m becoming invisible and more isolated in my pain. No therapist has been able to help me with that. You tell them you’ve been through narcissistic abuse and I can almost feel them rolling their eyes. It’s the buzzword lately, so I suffer in silence. I wish I could have you as my therapist Dr Ramani. I feel I’ll never stop crying
Hey…. ❤️🙏🏽✌🏼❤️ I hear you, and understand… I see You. Don’t feel such a failure either, sounds like you’ve accomplished Lots!!! Just wanted you to know You Are Worthy! Keeeep Taking Care Of You! 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Thank you for your work as a nurse. You make a difference in the world. I know a stranger saying this probably doesn't really help, considering all of the stuff you've been through and are still going through, but I admire you and hope that the people you love start to understand and support you, and that better things come your way!
@@marylacey5078 🥺 Thanks to all Of you who responded. It touches me and again, I cry. When someone shows me some tenderness, the icy wall I’m Building around my heart melts a little and the tears come. It’s hard to hear because you’ve been programmed that you’re too emotional, too sensitive, “I’m not responsible for your feelings”, too this or too that and you believe you’re defective in every way. Again, thank you for your kindness 🙏
I had a male "Christian counselor" that said I was "just as much at fault" as my husband (ex now). Thankfully I found a counselor that understood narcissism.... she helped me to leave and recover.
I guess my posts are being tripped up right now by yt touchy filters. I used no common iffy words. Ugh. What a waste of time the bots make trying to type legit replies.
this resonates as does this video. I've heard the clients "co-create these situations[with really messed up, even aggressive type/s]." Maybe that was the wording you were given or something similar. Like Dr Dirvasula said - that's a deal breaker, when it becomes a theme of blaming/criticising the client for behaviour of a really disturbed individual
@@camerong5513It is akin to the disturbed person themselves creating a war out of thin air, you caught by surprise and shock. After they glean whatever mental prize they got out of it--and you're shellshocked and angry (possibly their prize)--they go: "Well I said some things and you said some things... We're both to blame." And sometimes: "OK. I'm sorry... Now YOU say sorry to me.... Uh, uh, uhhhh 🎵 You called me an SOB. YOU have to apologize tooooo... Well you're not exactly being fair. When you're ready to be adult I'm ready for my apology. 😇" Psyche damaging.
@@C.Church yes, that's the flavour of what I've seen with a N, and like you said, it comes out of thin air - a difference of opinion, sharing feedback with them or just their bad mood
This video helps so much. I am still upset, yet self-blaming about a therapist experience several years back. She was recommended highly, has more "letters after her name" than you can count. She told me I never had to visit my narcissistic father again. I made it for three months, then saw him and he got to me and upset me. When I told her, she actually took a box of tissues, placed them atop her knee, then asked "Do you know what you did with my advice?" I said, "What?"....She then smacked the box of tissues across the room to show me what I had done. I began to cry. It was so jarring, upsetting. Those who know of, or have been to, this therapist discount my feelings, my actions in quitting working with her, etc. I will probably still blame myself, but this video helped validate my feelings and decision to leave. Thank you.
Dr. Ramani, You have saved my insanity and I know my life. As a mental health professional, my journey and your education have made me a better therapist, parent, and a better me.
I found that I have given myself hobbies...pampering time and focusing on myself...I found so much understanding and comfort from your videos....your so educated in this field dr ramani...I have chosen you as my therapist, self healing with your videos is doing it for me. X
So glad you knew to leave and not go back. I cant imagine someone being silenced by a therapist, but it happens. I'm sure you felt so invalidated and gaslit in that session. I hope you are healing and doing better ❤
@@daniellefennell3877 you need to read and understand what was happening to you and but all your energy into something you enjoy...Read Read Read..its the best medicine..once you realise the behaviour pattern...it should all fall into place...love yourself xx
After walking away from my narc family, i started a fresh. Spending time alone, learning a new language and i'm restarting my education as my mother didn't want me to go to college. For once in my life i have a choice and i'm making the most of it.
My first therapist decided for me I had to work on the 'ungrounded anxiety' around my abuser. She shared with me that my enabling stepfather had sent her a letter I was not allowed to read, flapping it in front of me stating that he was very worried about me and frankly, after reading it, she was too. I had to suffer months of desentesisation therapy getting increasingly anxious and depressed because not even my therapist would create a safe space for me. Now that Im looong out and healed, Im flabbergasted by this lack of professionalism. In the end, a supportive emdr therapist helped me beat ptsd and restored my faith in the idea of therapy
@@janh7316 I am in the same situation exactly after 22 years and with the mental childhood abuse. What is EMDR and how's it working for you so far? Thank you.
Just realizing my sister was the narcissistic in the family. Everything I’m learning from narcissism (from Dr. Ramani) looking back I see it all! I’m 43 and I suffer from the abuse she did to me, that I never saw! Everybody should know about this! Thank you Dr. Ramani, Naomi
There seems to be a lot of info about narcissistic parents and partners, but not about narcissistic siblings. And narc abuse can be so subtle and insidious that people just dismiss it as 'sibling rivalry', or 'kids don't realise they're being cruel' or my all time favourite 'you were too sensitive'. I'm 46 and still trying to come to terms with it too. Wishing you all the best.
Similar story here! My sister is the narcissist in my family. Her along with my mother, her ally, they destroyed my family. My two older kids don't speak to me anymore. My sister was a monster when I was growing up. Her abuse on top of my mother's neglect and gaslighting set me up to struggle in every relationship I ever had. I'm trying to find a way to leave my 3rd narcissistic relationship and it has been hard trying to put a plan together and leave. I'm 48 and still figuring things out, coming to terms, grieving and moving forward at the same time. Wishing you the best outcome! Keep moving forward
In the last 23 years of “counseling” I have NEVER ONCE had a therapist EVER even use the terms: Narcissism, Narcissistic Abuse or even Gaslighting. If fact, MOST of them gaslighted me!!! 😭🤬😭🤬😭
I love the cat who pops in 😍. I'm a trainee psychotherapist in the UK and my interest in narcissism and Dr Ramani came about from having left a narcissistic relationship, and what I suffered. its definitely not taught in the curriculum, I want to be a therapist who is well informed on this topic
The right therapist here is key! I had one who did nothing for me, read emails from my ex and asked how it made me feel… my new one addresses the emails, gives me strategies to deal with my ex who is a narc, points out the gaslighting, the blameshifting, assures me that I am not crazy despite my ex’s attempt to make me sound and be crazy!! My therapist GETS IT!!! I am beyond thankful for her!!! I hope you all find the right one to start healing too!! Stay strong!!!
One of the biggest issues I had with therapists who didn't understand narcissism was that they assumed I just didn't know how to have healthy relationships. As in for example they assumed I knew nothing about things like communication and boundaries. Without me even asking them to they turned the therapy sessions into basically lectures where they sat there and taught me how to do my part in a healthy relationship. I thought a lot of what they said wasn't necessarily bad. A lot of it was things that felt like common sense and that I had already been implementing in my normal relationships which was going well. Sometimes it did seem like they were talking down to me and assuming I was kind of dumb, especially when they said sort of obvious things like, "It's wrong when someone lies to you." I'm not saying I didn't hear anything halfway decent from these lectures I'm just saying 1. I didn't ask for them, 2. Most of it was kind of obvious stuff which also felt kind of condescending at times, and most importantly 3. Advice on how to have healthy relationships with non-narcissistic people really does not apply to relationships with narcissists. Even the parts that kind of apply just feel completely different in the context of a narcissistic relationship. So it always felt "off" when these lectures happened because I felt like these therapists not only probably shouldn't have been lecturing me when I didn't ask them to but they also really didn't understand the context of what I was coming to them with.
There are a lot of therapists who will invalidate you then claim "It is my job to challenge you". If they need to justify and excuse it as 'challenging you' they are doing it WRONG. A challenge should not cause us harm, it should simply help us think about something from a different perspective and we have the right to agree or disagree with it. My therapist challenges me and I LOVE it because it's poignant, measured, gentle and helpful. Even when I have disagreed with the alternative view she proposes she listens and validates me. I know she cares and I always feel safe with her.
The advice I got was the need for "healthy, honest conversation" to share views and move to compromise. The therapist could not understand when I said, "That will not be helpful. Anything I say like that will only come back onto me in double force later. I will be punished in some way." I could see the therapist looking oddly at me. Back then, I didn't know what it was I was dealing with, but I sure did know it was pointless to make myself vulnerable!
I know what you mean. I moved to the San Francisco Bay Area to get away from my toxic family. I tried to find someone to help me deal with the fact that my siblings hated me that much. The first several counselors/therapists challenged everything I told them about the way my siblings treated me. I would get questions like: "do you think that you might be overreacting?" or "so you think that all eight of them were wrong and you were right?" Second, I got the "you need to confront them to get closure." Third, they would give simplistic, stereotypical explanations. "They are jealous of your accomplishments." I would point out that they are just as "accomplished" (whatever that is) as I am. They would accuse me of refusing to listen to their advice. Finally, I realized that I did not need someone to give me answers, I needed to be heard.
@@mervyngreene6687 that last statement is a huge YES!! When I was with my last therapist, immediately I knew that I didn’t need advice. I hardly wanted her to talk! I wanted to be heard. Not listened to. Heard. Seen and validated. Because of Dr Ramini, I know what I’ve experienced. I always felt that something was off about my parent but it wasn’t until high school where I really noticed it and damn near went crazy because unfortunately, the adults that were “closest” to me where all practically the same. Not saying they were all narcissists but they acted just as terrible. So yeah! I get you..
This: Love yourself enough to Remove the narcissist from your life completely and going forward only allow loving, positive, unselfish people in your life.
My therapist asked what “hoovering” was, I had to school her for a second, finding a therapist who gets it is so IMPORTANT. I’m still going to keep going to her but sometimes I just don’t know if I should stick with her or someone else
I think my therapist having a background in trauma is incredibly helpful. My therapist has took it upon herself to learn about narcissistic abuse and that is also so important. Hopefully you can find someone like that but I highly recommend finding someone with a background in trauma therapy if you cannot find a therapist versed in narcissistic abuse. 💕
Last week I had to explain to my therapist what Gaslighting is. There was a good opportunity to do that as she was in the middle of gaslighting me :) She has truly good intentions, but so little expertise in this field and it often seems she gets more out of our sessions than I do. On the other hand there is no guarantee whatsoever that I'll be able to find someone more suitable, so I guess I'll stick with her for now. At least she did recognize that her behavior towards me was wrong. To anyone in a similar situation: It is important to remember what baddass of a surviver you are
Follow your gut. She might be helpful for now and after a while not so much anymore. I did CBT, but it didn't help me enough, so I will continue with a coach who knows about narcissism (it's impossible rn to find a therapist who can take on new patients).
@@Picca65 I agree. I think that’s in part why I went with who I have now, a lot of my areas therapists are booked and it’s hard finding new ones, will follow my gut and pray about it because right now I can’t really tell
7 years ago I was dismissed by our marriage counselor, fast forward to 7 months ago it became violent. The State charged him with domestic violence and I went no contact. Thank goodness for you and the trauma specialist I had access to for months after the ER visit
Feeling, taking space for myself is the most imoortant thing that I came across, feeling is a whole journey, of coming out of my head and into my body, cause the body doesn't lie and this is where I can build my confidence and support of knowing what is true vs false, what is sane vs insane, what is healthy vs unhealthy, what is nurturing vs unnuturing etc
It's infuriating and makes for a very inadequate experience. I have my personal stories and I've given up trying to find support from a therapist which costs money, and a waste if you don't get what you need. The best help for me is to just keep listening to videos, reading, and I've devised ways of selfcare that are valuable to me. I'm lonely though because there is no one that really knows me, gets it, or appreciates what I'd love to be able to share. People are sooo cagey. I hate to have to learn from trying to get to know someone, only to find that it's been time spent finding out that it's not working
My therapist was solely focused on cbt he just wanted to reprogram my thinking. Putting all the blame on me. He was basically gaslighting me from the very first session so I had to leave him for my sanity. About 5 months later I came across you channel And started watching your videos which has helped me to make sense of my life and recover from the abuse. Still working on my attachment issues and trauma bonding. Thanks for your magnificent work. You have guided me through the worst times of my life and I will always be grateful for that,wish you good health so you can continue your great work Thanks for doing this
After over 20 years in a marriage with covert narcissistic abuse, being dragged into couples counseling with a counselor whom he was able to manipulate and control sessions, finding a doctor who skillfully led my recovery, went back to school to become a therapist myself to help others who have gone through this hell, i am so surprised now how many clients report their prior therapists have done these things. Knowledge and education about recovering from this abuse is so much needed. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani for your work. I have been watching your videos for a long time which have been a great help in my continuing recovery and finally have courage to comment online.
I am a therapist but also have my own stories and I am interested in learning the credentials when they are created to be considered a narcissistic abuse expert…. Please keep us posted Dr. Ramani
Check out we need to talk with Kris Godinez here on youtube. You might find some answers there, Kris is a little more blunt but entertaining and full of knowledge and books she and others have written on this topic.
You can also obtain a C-PD certification as well as read .. there is so much info ( academic ), also when Dr Ramani facilitates a training I would go . I’ve been to every one of her trainings thus far and it’s so very informative.
After a 10 year relationship and three couple therapies, I concluded therapy is just not for me. Never was the word “abuse” uttered. Never did they mentioned I did not deserve the constant yelling & insulting. I believe this happened because therapists are trained not to confront but to make the patient come into his own realization of the problem. That never happened for patient narcisist but left me feeling like an intolerant, exagerated, nor commited partner. I had to convince him to go to three therapies and at the end the real problem was never named. Ted talks and this channel are the only placed I’ve found that put a name to a terrible, unacceptable behavior that keeps going on two years after we signed the divorce. Now, the flawd legal system is his best ally on keeping the economic and mental abuse going on and on.
Xactly why i hate therapie. I used to like the idea of it but the people are abusing therapy in their own benefits. They dont acknowlegde peoples problems in a neutral way nor give constructed long term help for it. Thats why i gave up on therapy. Life will always throw something at people. No matter how many times we have therapy.
I was 4 years in an abusuve relationship with a therapist and one year with an ineffective one. My whole family is a narcissistic tragedy, as well as my coubtry's elected government.
Unfortunately, tt's the whole world..., we've been dealing with alien consciousness planetary invasion for hundreds or thousands of years. THAT IS the actual virus.
I hope and pray that you find loving, empathic and nurturing others in your life. Begin with one! Hopefully like minded people will gravitate toward your circle.. seek qualities like * kindness and good (not cruel) humor * 🐛.. 🦋
@Mateus Eduardo Faria de Oliveira I went through a very similar experience with my narcissistic family and narcissistic therapists and narcissistic psychiatrists. The important thing is you’re aware of what happened and now you know better. You’re armed with knowledge and you can only navigate through life better than before on your road to recovery. You can do this. You’re a survivor.
I ran into a therapist, and another one, who after hearing just a few things, even tho these were very clear examples of obvious abuse, suggested me that I can have codependent personality and shifted the blame of abuse just right on me. At first I was puzzled, shocked even. I was an independent thinker since I was a kid, a truth teller, I guess, honest but caring, I knew the difference between telling the truth and hurting others, nobody who really knows me couldn't produce such absurd statement. I'm just struggling so hard right now to escape this controlling monsters! Yet this "professionalist" told me not knowing the whole story that I "glued" myself first to the narc husband and his narc family and now, going thru the divorce, i glued myself to my sister. (Side note: He left me after a surgery with nothing, without any warning and thankfully my sister can help me with some stuff, that's normal human behaviour, to help each other in hard times, isn't it?). Glued? Whoa! Hold your horses. Come again? I well hate this that I haven't noticed right away what I got into but for God's sake, it's not easy when you fall in love and fall prey to such viscious people, bc that is what's happened - I was being brain-washed and gaslit for few years not by one person but by a whole bunch of them, coordinated! I got very messed up after the session with that "therapist" but thanks to you, Dr Ramani, and few other normal people around, I got back to sanity. It's already hard enough to deal with all the harmful brain-washing effects of such abuse and when you seek for help you get what? What I am saying is, if you seek for therapy, be awared that many "professioanlists" out there are not professional at all and thanks to Dr Ramani, that she is speaking this crucial truth!
It seems highly likely you are codepemdant. Why would you think youre not. Most people who end up with a narc are codependsnt. And also its your therpaist they cant do anything about anyone else all they can do is deal with you. But did they even explalin what codependant means. Cos you dont seem to know what that means. Its very hard to be in a narc abusive relationship and not be codependant. Doesnt matter if youre indeoendant truuth teller. If you truly were independant truth teller youd have said to this abusive guy the truth about his behaviour and walked away. Sounds like you just werent ready to take responsibility and wanted to moan a bit about being the victim for a while first. I get that. The therapists can be too challenging too quickly.
I had already listened to this video a few weeks ago, and I even took a few notes, but I came back to listen again because my new-ish therapist just asked my opinion about how she could help me more, in what ways she could help and support me. Being abused by multiple narcs had left me feeling unable to advocate for myself. I had lost the ability to even fathom that I had the right to think of my own needs, let alone thinking of a list of things that I needed from anyone. And even if I could think of what I needed, saying them aloud is traumatizing, like I'm endangering myself by speaking them aloud. So I have a lot trouble answering that type of question. But listening to Dr R helps me wrap my brain around thinking about what I really need from a therapist.
My experience has been really brutal.. Married 45 years, 2 adult daughters. My husband was tragically killed in a helicopter crash .…1 day after learning of his death we learned he had been living with another woman for 7 years, splitting his week with me. We were beyond shocked. Your videos have opened my eyes to the narcissistic patterns and lies in my marriage. How does learning about adultery after the death of the narcissist change my recovery? Starting trauma therapy Monday🙏
You have to go through all the lies that you went through that you thought was the truth. Reprocess your life through the eyes of what really happened. He did not care about anyone but his ego. You will heal . You have more than one grief to process. He was a master manipulator. You must process the trauma or else you will have triggers and anxiety and nightmares that affect you greatly.
The thing is: it is such complex trauma where abuse happens systematically day in day out for years, and when it happened in childhood it is deeply intertwined with the forming of personality and all aspects of functioning in the adult life. Standard trauma therapy works when trauma can be located to 1 specific day and hour, and is more focusing on numbing it down, than learning from the experience. Triggers are like wormholes to (otherwise isolated and suppressed) traumatic experiences, but triggers hardly happen during a therapy session. It feels like you have fallen into deep waters without ever having learned to swim, drowning, again and again. Your survival-instinct will take over and there's no room for anything else than that. It's very hard to make contact with the wise part of yourself that could talk you through it, be there for you, empowering yourself, attending your needs and best interests, setting healthy boundaries, with self respect, self-love, self-confidence, self-trust, self-worth. It's like the survival part is screaming right in your ear while the wise part is merely a soft distant murmuring. When Triggers would be used in combination with regression therapy, accessing an otherwise isolated deep part of yourself, going through it again, but with the difference that this time you will say, do, act in line with self-love, self-respect, and so on. Learning what you never learned to do. Standing in your own power, knowing that from this place, the outside world can not get to you; you are safe within your own healthy boundaries. This is my perspective in the context of my own experiences in ptsd and 10 years of unsuccessful Mainstream therapy.
The choice in therapist is so important. I was gaslit and emotionally abused by more than one therapist. Don’t be afraid to “break up” with a therapist that just doesn’t get it. You deserve proper therapy.
I am blessed to have a trauma informed therapist. I asked her if she was familiar with your work and she said YES! The work I do in between sessions include: journaling, listening to uplifting music listening to inspiring RUclips videos - Oprah, Les Brown, Mel Robbins and others, sensory exercises, loving my inner child work, documenting my thoughts and triggers.
Mine got mad at me because i give up on journaling alot lol. But we started emdr and it's really helping. He's looking into other stressors in my life and there's many. Now he just got pissed and is all like "you know what? Forget the journaling, just do one nice thing for yourself per day" since i have a tendency to put myself last all the time. He's trauma informed and i like him so far, been 3 months!
Dr. Ramani, thank you for all your videos. Life changer for me. I grew up in a narcissistic family. I was the scape goat in my family. Lots of trauma from which i am still recovering. I was very lucky that in my late 40s I started therapy with a loving and nonjudgmental therapist. What a life changer. I still struggle internally to be strong and to put strong boundaries with my parents and siblings. Guilt is the hardest thing to work on. But with the help of my therapist and your videos i am getting better. Thank you so much for all you do!❤️
❤️ ❤️ ❤️ In weekly therapy 15 months with a good one. Once I told my narc of 38 years that I won’t live this way any more, I chose individual therapy first “to make sure I wasn’t crazy”, first. It’s taken 15 months to find myself significantly healed inside. It’s totally different and marvelous, the way I experience life. Dr. Ramani and this community form a large part of my support. I had to backspace a lot here; for now, I will just say I practice between sessions when a situation arises that corresponds to a tip or insight from the last session; and I reflect a bit ASAP after I leave the session on what they said, to remember it. Example: for unhelpful thoughts, I yell silently, “STOP! I get to choose how I inhabit my day.” I did it while listening to this video when negative self-talk tried to creep in the back door of my mind, habituated by a lifetime of harsh criticisms from narcissistic. 😂 And that was the short version. Thank you, Dr. R and everyone for helping me to remember daily that I don’t have to buy what every Tom, Narc, and Harry is selling.
That mush feel very invalidating how can you even be honest with the therapist knowing they'll repeat it to your parents, who are the problem, I feel ya stay strong
For help with a N, actively abusive mother, I went to a "trauma-informed" therapist who told me, "Since my expertise is trauma, I am going to help you understand the trauma that your mother experienced." That was the sum of what she had to offer someone like me.
I had horrible therapy experiences. Totally heard all those invalidating excuses for the narc. One of the best Ramani videos. I wish we could all see her!
Rule #1: avoid therapists who are themselves narcissistic or borderline. Sadly there are many.
This comment needs more upvotes. So true!
My narcissistic mother was "social worker". She worked in a shelter for domestic violence victims. My heart breaks for all those women she probably made suffer. I asked her one day if any of her clients ever went back to their husbands? She laughed and said to me "almost all of them do".
I disagree with you on borderline therapists. A borderline who has done their own work and gotten themselves stable will have an elevated sense of compassion, as well as first hand experience navigating and managing overwhelming emotions. All this said, though... you aren't going to exactly find a therapist's own diagnosed conditions on their PsychologyToday profile anyway.
@@JC-bu6vl smh 🥺
@@dshigure I agree 100%. One of my therapists IS borderline and she is utterly amazing! She totally understands, really listens, and has compassion and empathy. She has taught me techniques to cope with and overcome mental health struggles, and I have found these essential to my progress. The idea anyone would dismiss her simply for being BPD is absurd, she's been incredibly helpful and positive in my life!
Dr. Ramani, you should create a school or a course for all the therapist around the world to learn how to help their patients who suffer this type of abuse.
Please do!
I think these videos are the school in a way lol! I was lucky. My therapist was trauma informed and really understood the narc abuse dynamics plus she had her own experiences in this arena. Therapy and Dr. Ramani's and other RUclips videos really helped my journey out of this situation. I used to share Dr. Ramani videos with my therapist. So grateful for all of this life saving learning.
No, it should be part of the degree curriculum and until that happens, most therapists will sadly continue to be well-intentioned, yet useless due to curriculum being decades behind..
I was also thinking that she should lecture these so called therapists and life coaches who are not well informed
@@csstudio3648 yassss, this is like my therapy (notice I said LIKE)
My 1st therapist said, “Well we don’t want to label people.” When she said, “You know, some people thrive in narcissistic relationships.” That was our last session.
Glad you dropped that one!
It takes a brave person in therapy to say ''no thanks' to their therapist and their approach of healing, even if it is just NOT returning for the next session. Yes - we could communicate on some 'misunderstandings' on either side, but sometimes you do need to be completely sure about the ''game changes' statements. If you don't feel they 'get it'' or are undermining you or diminishing your sorrow and your assertiveness to re establish good boundaries falls on deaf ears. .... you always have choices. And to be honest I feel a therapist may 'fit'' you for a limited time/limited problem or you may out grow them. Hopefully you keep moving forward with progress, and then you can reflect back and think ''If I didn't have that experience with that therapist, I wouldn't be able to segway onto this stage/space with this insight and type of problem solving, with the next one". Building a step onwards/upwards to have more awareness for the next chapter. But do expect times of real plateauing and feeling like you are getting nowhere. Like life sometimes... 3 steps forward 1 back. At least show up for yourself...if you wait for others to...you are going to be disappointed. My therapist laughed when I told her "I go to therapy ... so I can put up with the people - who should be in therapy"". A saying I saw somewhere.
Talk about a mind F!
Well deserved. 🤣
Well done! The therapist is there for you, its not your role or duty to educate the therapist. Offcource it takes some adjusting from both sided, but coming from a narcissistic relationship, I think you have adjusted enough 😉😃
Therapy, yoga, meditation, detachment, no contact, working out, educating myself... this is what I focused on to get my power back. Focusing on yourself is key!
Dont go there. Its satanic. It heals for a moment and then you go deeper in yourself what gonna make you narcistic yourself. Dont go after aaron dpughty, teal swan etc.... All of this is New Age. I was there. I was abused and i went into shadow work, ancient healing, yoga ,meditqtion, breath work... its distructive after while
JESUS CHRIST SAVED ME. You dont need qnything. Just pray to him and answers about therapy and people you shpuld surround yourself with will come. I promisse its distructive. Dont go there. I was saved from trauma thru him. I was 5 years busy with all this New age stuff (new , modern satanism) but it will bring you just deeper after while. Watch from New Age to Jesus - narcistic abuse on yt . I will pray for you. I just left the seed that you probably need. God bless You. You can do it
I wish I could be like I’m lost right now.
@@daquancurry7805 Me too. And it's been 10 months. And I'm doing all of the above.
Will I ever be 'normal' again?
@attractarattigan3574 you will have a "new normal". You will become wiser, stronger and more discerning. Take the lessons you learnt, painful as they may be, and let them become the fuel the moves you forward.
Life is about how we respond to what comes our way.
I have confidence in you. Level up by climbing on top of your disappointments. Never let them crush you because you're made of sterner stuff.
I'm rooting for you 👏
When I told my therapist that I'd realized my whole marriage was a sham, she said, "No. HE was a sham". I can't tell you how much I needed to hear that.
❤
“After going through narcissistic abuse, people don’t always trust their instincts. Let this be the day and let this be the process that leads you to start to trust yours.”
definitely- really just grey rocking everyone at this point.
Thank u for saying that
Luckily my therapist BELIEVES me and defends me. Others think you should just get over it and come back into the environment with the narcissist. He is giving me the time and space to find my new purpose.
That's awesome, Carrie. Therapists like that are rare. Having been involved in professional education of therapists, I can say that. So many priceless pearls in this video!
Love this for you!!
As they SHOULD!
It’s the same with me, thankfully. My current therapist actually believes me at face value when I tell him the terrible things my narcissistic family did to me that made me so miserable. These days I don’t have to keep dealing with the reactions of incredulousness as if I was dishonest or I had a distorted perception of events that I constantly went through with previous therapists. I realize now that it was tribal gaslighting and it was so exhausting and wasted so much precious time. An empathetic therapist that’s actually good at their job makes the healing process happen so much smoother and quicker.
Do not ever go back to the narcissist. They will drain you. Use you. Lie, cheat and steal. I recently got out of one, I work with her and if my intuition is correct, her new supply. They both look at me in just, the most guilt ridden "wtf is he gonna do or say next" type of way. See I told her, without naming anyone, that I knew and that I can see through both of them. Maybe I shouldn't be so personal, there's a bunch of details spared for the sake of, a lot of things. Just know that, it's so much better without that type of person in your life. They will just take and take and take and only give when they want to take more. Don't lose hope. Don't gaslight yourself into thinking you're wrong or crazy, that's their goal. Do not let them have control or power over you. You will be fine.
The therapist told me to simply stop playing victim. Hence why I am so very grateful for these videos online and the community, they have helped immensely in the healing journey.
What a horrible thing for the therapist to say to you
@@faithmoody7212 Seems so on the surface. I remember some brutal truths from 25 years ago from a therapist( family therapy with a narcissist who quit and blamed me 4 sessions in) doing a splendid job. That day my sister quit, the therapist took me aside and said” Your family will never meet your emotional needs’ point blank and straight up. She was also my sisters therapist. These words echo 25 years later as validation.The point I am trying to make is that a good therapist might have to be blunt enough to tell someone to stop playing the victim.
there's a difference between being blunt and reinforcing a gaslighting/abusive partner. The therapist who was honest with you did the opposite of the one who said "stop playing victim." @@geraldfriend256
@@geraldfriend256 I agree with you , I had a friend tell me I was addicted to my story and as long as I was going to be a victim that’s what I will be and yes narcissist are master manipulators and good at what they do but at the same time I have to take a look in the mirror and take accountability for myself because I allowed these things to happen to me… sometimes the truth hurts but u need to hear it sometimes in order to grow and learn
What that narcissist said was conservative-talk. Avoid all conservative-behaving narcissists like the plague, because that's what they are. The plague.
I went to a couples therapist in the late 1985. After her testing us, interviewing us together, as well individually, she said on the fourth visit "Get rid of him." and then with a pause she added, "He's a narcissist. He doesn't think he's doing anything wrong." She held her closed hands in the air, one high one low and preceded with, "When you get your self-esteem (low hand wiggle) up to where it should be, ( high hand wiggle ), you wouldn't even date a man like him." at that time I was only aware of the Greek mythology tale of Narcissus. I thought it m
Please come back and finish your thought.
bsavage I've been there with a BPD ex.
I dragged him to counselling so I would have documentation and records.
Thats class she sounds like she was down to earth snd kind of fun. A lot of ones i had just repeated ..and how did that make you feel and nodded their heads a lot. Hated them. They seemed like bloody narcs themslves. My ex bbf was a therapist healer bullshit artist. Lol.
I wish our therapyst told me that. But she helped him get out of it. I don’t know if she discovered he was a covert
Glad you got a therapist with a sound mind.
This is such a problem. Back when I was 16 and managed to sneak myself into therapy under the false pretense of tackling my ADHD, when actually I went to discuss my parents, the therapist, god bless 'im, actually suggested bringing my parents INTO THERAPY WITH ME.
I laughed outloud when he first suggested it, and told him that wasn't going to happen. They'd never agree and they'd make a scene. But, he managed to convince me into it, filling me with dangerous hope that "maybe they're more understanding than you think." All of us children of narcissists know how dangerous hope is with these relationships.
Went home to suggest it, my mother freaked the hell out. She chucked laundry and shoes at me and shrieked at the top of her lungs about how I'm trying to "ruin her life" and that they're only paying for therapy for me because "you're the crazy one, not me." Dad was equally appalled, though he was more of an "appearances" narc than a violent one like my mom. But, they agreed after sleeping on it the next day.
I should have suspected something, but I didn't. Too full of hope.
They went to the therapy session, and caused an embarrassing scene. The therapist tried to talk to them, and they basically declared that they were paying him to fix me and not them, screamed at me AND at him, then finally stormed out after maybe 10 minutes, slamming the door behind them.
Me and him just sat in awkward silence for about a minute before he turned to me and sort of lamely said, "I'm so sorry." He ended the session early, and I got back in the car we all drive together in, and they spent the car ride home cackling, making fun of the therapist, and telling me that they hoped I realized nothing was going to change. After I was exposed, they refused to pay for my therapy any further so, being a 16 year old, I was forced to terminate since I couldn't pay.
I just hope that interaction taught that therapist something, and I hope he never forgot.
I'm a 36 year old finally starting to heal and progress, but my therapist suggested bringing in parents. She's great, and it's not the same as with a 16 year old, but your comment will help me voice my concerns
Same with me same age. Parents really send kids there to find reason to label the kids and point at them for parental problems. Like tough love is a nazi training camp to give parents tools and the okay to target blame andv remove responsibility for their kids .
Wow, my heart goes out to you. It all goes to show there is a need for universal healthcare.
@@Matriarch57 bit of a leap there
@@waldoman7
Why? Health is wealth.
a psychiatrist once told me that my "perception" of my mother as a narcissist was due to my underlying mental health problems..and when I went to therapy after a divorce from my narcissistic ex husband, the therapist told me that she felt we were both equally responsible, and that I must've been sending him mixed signals for him to act the way he did 😳😤...I'm a licensed counselor myself, and would never say these things to any of my clients! they were legit gaslighting me in a space that is meant to be safe.
Sad.. really sad. Good you are able to trust your own reality, but we all deserve validation, it helps to anchor our soul. 🦋
@Stephanie W
I went through very similar experiences with the psychiatrists and therapists I’ve had who were gaslighting me. Some of those experiences are recent.
Thanks to Dr. Ramani, I am now able to recognize the signs that I’m being gaslighted and I could potentially be dealing with either a narcissist or a narcissist’s enablers.
You know when you’re dealing with an incompetent member of the mental health field. Not everyone is good at their job. Many are not. Trust your instincts.
@@dianegraber9333 lovely.
How awful! Truly horrendous!
Glad you survived, hope you are now flourishing.
💜
Wowww. So glad you knew better. I hope you're doing much better now. 🤍❤️❤️
Very well said. Abuse cannot be and should not be ‘Reframed’, just validated. Thank you for reaffirming this🙏
“Abuse cannot and should not be ‘reframed.’” Exactly; well said. 🙏❤️
This is such a life-affirming statement that truly highlights the whole work of DoctorRamani and her contribution to this planet infested with narcs! Thanks for pointing it out here.
how long should it be validated for - FOREVER!?
@@camerong5513 If you've lived a lifetime where you've blamed yourself for everything, realizing that you've experienced abuse and having it validated by even ONE person can be the impetus to move forward and start making changes for the better.
People don't exist in vacuums and we have to understand what stuff belongs to us and what belongs to other people. For people geared toward self-blame, being told to "reframe our thinking" in therapy can have a similar impact as gaslighting. It doubles down on the responsibility for other people's emotions and actions we've been asked to shoulder our whole lives.
@@80islandia well reframing CAN help.
Did you waste your time or learn how u DIDN'T want to be treated?
Are you a victim or are you FREED?
What you tell yourself, YOU BELIEVE it. Some folks HOLD ON to things bc even the thought of letting THAT go hurts. They want to have SOMETHING of that person still with them even if it's bad.
I'll give an example. And it's sorta weird. After the discard, I ironically couldn't throw anything away. I couldn't move the candle in the windowsill, and I found a little ball of hair from her brush where she sat and combed her hair. For the LIFE OF ME, I don't know why I just could NOT throw it away. I guess it felt like I was throwing HER away and getting rid of HER.
This concept can apply to letting things go. Holding on to bad memories and what not is at least having SOMETHING of them still around you. Because NOTHING of them around you feels worse. This is for those who were discarded bc usually the ones who left the narc were just FED UP and anything repulses them.
At times folks can't really move on and they point at what the narc did to them 10+ years ago. It's called prolonged grief. The DSM 6 that's coming out will begin discussing this.
Prolonged grief is a real thing. It actually can impact someone so bad rhey legit can NOT move on. In 2005 I felt this for 3 years until I met this one I was with in 2008. It actually was like magic how the narc took all that pain away. It WAS the mind reframing. It was so effective, I can actually go back and look at that ex person and just feel flat. No anger, no joy, no hate or anxiety just another person in the world.
The problem with it, is THEY held on to it as it collected intrest per se and gave it right back to me 100x more. The "hey dave, u remember this? You can have it BACK now plus more"
If done positively, it really can help people. The narc does what therapist do. That's why they're so affective at what they do. The difference is the narc has been doing it most their life and for negative purposes, where the therapist has been doing it for a few years for positive purposes. They both open you up. One looks to DESTROY and the other looks TO HEAL.
Dr Ramani as a clinician I’m waiting for your training for us . After watching you I’ve completed an additional certificate and continue to learn to practice best with my clients . I’m also teaching my grad students, I don’t want them to exit grad school like I did without this info , it’s horrifying to think of the gaslighting and damage that can be done .
If you are a professor at a graduate school, have you gone to your boss to get a course on narcissism? Or is he too much of a narcissist to do that, after all, universities are hot beds for it.
@@MrNeptunebob hi Robert , no they are working with me to create curriculum and I’ve also taught it as a part of my trauma class. We are working together to make the changes needs that clients and students deserve ☺️
That's good, but why do you suppose knowing about narcissism has not happened before? Students pay tens of thousands of dollars for college and graduate school, the least we could get is the right answers.
Thank you for pursuing this.. 🦋 I want to trust that more and more learned professionals (grad and under grad) will open to this critical material as you have. Enriching the focus of recovery and healing in Clinical settings world wide would save lives, children/ families, careers, etc. Wounded society needs so much more.. let’s hope for a National Health Care System that includes all people while we’re imagining change!
@@dianegraber9333 ❤️🩹🙏🏾☺️
I had a couples therapist ( I was almost ready to admit I wanted a divorce from the narcissist) He only went to therapy- after me asking him for years- only because he relapsed (he's an alcoholic as well) and his job was in jeopardy. His new emotional supply was his work, so he went. Our therapist said " well you guys have already been together for 9 years, you don't want to throw that away!" I was so shocked- she was pushing the sunken cost fallacy on me. That's how ppl stay on bad relationships and bad investments. People want to change the outcome of a bad decision by putting more energy or money into it. Just cut your losses and run, don't waste any more time. You can't make people love you by giving them more of what they already don't appreciate.
"You can't make people love you by giving them more of what they already don't appreciate"
Whuu chiille, this hit deep!
My counselor used to said to, "no matter how good a husband is, will never be enough for you". that's the 1st & last I talk to her.
that's so triggering me because I did everything best I could until I'm physically & mentally drained. she'll never understand what i've been through..
The biggest thing I just learned is that the trauma bond is just like being a drug addict. That. That completely resonates with me. And now I really believe I can move forward.
@@jackpetersen7545 please leave me alone. This is not the first time I have had to report you.
Oh yes. Absolutely.
EARLY ON in their trap (of 2.5 years), I FELT ADDICTED TO HIS CONTACT (I felt like he did a spell on me, literally)! I had NO conscience experience of this type of addition/trauma bonding... But after the 3rd attempt (within a year) to break away from this LONG DISTANCE INTERNET CONMAN, I nose-dived into educating myself about Narcissism & the Narcissist Cycle - SPOT ON, Trauma Bonding & became suicidal (after being a suicide survivor 3 years ago - AND HE TALKED ME OUT OF GOING BACK ON ANTI-DEPRESSANTS)! I found DR RAMANI, 1-on-1 counseling & a support group for healing/supporting women of abusive relationships. GOD SHOWED ME THE TRUTH & WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT. God blesses us/knows our hearts 💕. NARCISSISTS/DEVIL ENERGY - WILL NEVER WIN - OVER OUR LIGHT WITHIN. Hang tight, fellow light-workers, in this dark world we live in! ❤️🙏❤️
@@otherworlder1 Stay strong Maria, GOD SEES ALL & KNOWS ALL! You will receive everything you need to fight off this demon. You are NOT ALONE. ❤️🙏❤️
I've kicked harder drugs than her. Putting it that way makes a lot of sense, and I need to treat it like any other addiction.
I went to a therapist to figure out what I needed to do to save my marriage. We started by working on my self-worth and she recommended a book for me to take a look at. As my sense of self worth grew I realized I didn’t want to save my marriage. She helped me understand what was going on around me in my life. She helped me make sense of the craziness. When I was ready she supported my leaving. I was lucky.
May I know what book was that?
Which book did your therapist recommend?
The Solo Partner: How to Repair Your Marriage on Your Own by Phil DeLuca, MSW
@@vickibarker8658 The Solo Partner: How to Repair Your Marriage on Your Own by Phil DeLuca
@Tamra Vincent The Solo Partner:How to Repair Your Marriage on Your Own by Phil DeLuca
In a way, just being away from them is great therapy lol. It’s like you’re 75% better just because they’re not around.
Yes! So true, it took me around 4 months on my own to start feeling kind of happy again... I had to take it slow minute by minute, day by day.
The times I have to visit, my healing progress looses momentum and I tangibly feel drained and depleted of energy, looking forward to going no contact.
This is so true!!! No need to talk about it....just remove it 🤣🤣🤣👍
very true. i prayone very very soon i can experience this. ameen
You have to do the work though, so you don’t end up with another one, like I did.
Dr. Ramani, I'm a therapist and have been watching your channel for years. You have helped me so much with my personal healing journey, as well as my growth as a therapist working with narcissist abuse survivors. I struggle so much with finding other therapists who support narcissistic abuse work. Most don't understand the complexity of narcissism. Thank you so much for the work you do! This specific video provided so much validation in what I've been trying so hard to communicate to other therapists, including supervisors. Thank you!
I am always hesitant to bring up the abuse bc I feel like people will judge me for victimizing myself AND that I’m probably not right about them being narcissistic. And the narcissist is so good at doing things in a way where if you tell someone what they did, it doesn’t seem like a bad thing. I am having a hard time finding a good therapist.
Stay strong and determined to get better. Whatever it takes.
Got invalidated by psychiatrists and therapists for over 10 years now! Saying some how it seemed I was “overreacting”, “too sensitive”, “not behaving normally” yikes! I was put on medication for schizophrenia because my shrink was convinced I was making up my nmom’s words and coercive control.. sigh gaslit by my shrink. It took another couple of years and few better therapists who finally started not judging me and listening to what I had to say. Thank u thank u thank u Dr. Ramani!🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️
Dr Ramani
You weren't there in NYC in the 70s for me. Not an accusation - just reality.
I was married to a narc
I’m a therapist and this breaks my heart, although I totally believe you. Glad you found better ones and this yt channel. Helps me much too.
Jeeezzzusssss I'm so sorry. Glad you have real help now!!!
I am so sorry 😢, I pray you found some one , or just a safe place to heal
He sound like the narcissist himself what an a******
Sadly, there are not a lot of therapists who are even trained to define personality disorders, or are too afraid of consequences when it comes to treating Borderline Personality Disorder. My therapist diagnosed the differences between Borderline and BiPolar disorder in the first session I had with her 3 years ago. I have a daughter with BiPolar disorder and one with BPD. Her support and understanding have been phenomenal because BPD is a twisted terrain. Hard to navigate, but the support of watching you, Dr. Ramani , has been a cornerstone of my on-going recovery. Thank you for your wisdom and for not “talking down” to people. Your language style and depth of content are reassuring that intelligent life forms are present and can guide us through this volatile situation.
Likewise, as I previously commented, Dr. Ramani has been instrumental in my healing
Only Licensed psychologists, phd level, and psychiatrists can diagnose personality disorders or other mental illnesses. Just like only doctors can diagnose illnesses. Diagnose is a legal term. So other therapists, counsellors, social workers shouldn't diagnose by law!, they can suggest what it may be, or what it looks like. They should be working on the effects of the behaviour, vs. Labels.
@@joywebster2678 I understand what you’re saying. Please understand I am a psychologist and the person helping me was not diagnosing my daughter, she was giving me a framework to understand the difference of a mood disorder and a personality disorder. In our family, my daughters are second generation recipients of these mental challenges. Legally, I’m curious if a therapist cannot help a mother trying to understand her troubled daughters.
@@joywebster2678
I had an incompetent therapist who told me I showed symptoms of several personality disorders without diagnosing me officially. My later therapists all disagreed with her assessment I had any personality disorders and the reasons she gave weren’t valid. I think she was projecting onto me as she projected her other character flaws onto me. Now that I can recognize the signs, I realized she is a narcissist. What a waste of time being treated by one.
@@martiemcbride9420 you said clearly she diagnosed the difference in first session. Perhaps you mean she described the difference between the two disorders and how they work. There is a WORLD of difference between those two statements.
My therapist has a "day job" working at the VA, so she sees the affects of trauma/PTSD all the time. She helped me understand what I was going through in a really caring way. She did say directly to me, "you are being gaslighted," which was a huge shift in perspective for me. I am so thankful for her support.
Wow. I've found the VA to be an absolute nightmare. They totally destroyed my man and our relationship. Glad you found a good therapist.
Your feelings were finally validated. Thank God.
I'm seeing VA people in Feb. I told them on the initial appointment call last week with the PhD I dont trust therapy anymore, I just need medication for my focus issues (a source of parental abuse for my struggle to make them look good with ace report cards). But after this video and your experience I may try once more (just once more).
I saw a VA phych MD in DC and he was largely disinteredly typing as I spilled my guts. Then finally at long last said I had "mild depression" and that was that. Session over. Go home and work on it on my own I guess. (MILD depression?? Fkn MILD???) Among other examples I just dont have much trust anymore.
Maybe 15yrs later in CA with female attentiveness I can turn it around.
I may send her this video and kindly ask her to watch it before our intake meeting in Feb.
@@C.Church I can't believe I'm doing this... but I'm in CA, and if you need a friend, respond. I'm in Norcal . I'm honestly at the point that if a therapist hasn't experienced this stuff, they aren't going to be able to help me. Ugh. Anyway I'm a good supportive listener and I understand at least. And the hilarious part is im expat from Va!! Just a funny link that kinda made me reach out.
@@allywolf9182 that is incredibly sweet. :) I'm in SoCal. Have you gone back to try again?
One thing that has worked for me is recording myself saying my affirmations, and then listening to the recording every morning after meditation. It has worked to really build love and confidence in myself and also shatter the cognitive dissonance that I had about the narcissists in my life.
That's awesome. If you don't mind me asking, what are your affirmations? What sort of things do you say? Thanks (:
I would warn against "trauma informed" therapists. Always look at the therapists personal beliefs and agendas. For example, they may be trauma informed but deny such things as narcissism or betrayal trauma. Also may believe in parental alienation and that children are better off with both parents no matter the circumstances. So remember that therapists are people and pay attention to you gut when they are telling you something that just feels off, denies or contradicts your experience.
Tytyty❤❤❤
Excellent advice!! You are 100% correct! There’s no technical specific type of therapist that will help in these kinds of abuse. It’s all about finding one who’s beliefs align with yours as you mentioned.
I live in the UK, I’m being abused by a adult son, I’ve watched Doctor R’s many videos and it’s helped me understand Narcissist and the abuse they inflict.
I’m beside myself with grief and fear, but when I go to a doctor, I’m told to have therapy on the NHS takes months of waiting, I did in the past find a therapist but their was little understanding on the subject, I felt unheard and as though I was whinging, the abuse continues , and I want to know how to cope, it’s heart breaking when it’s your son .
By now whenever somebody tells me I shouldn't diagnose people since I am not a therapist I tell them I am not diagnosing anybody...narcissist is just a nicer way to say ass*ole
Chronic a*holls
Amen! I'm still being punished by my husband for telling him he was being an a**h*** 12years ago! I didn't know about narcissism and how badly any criticism would affect him. I call it as I see it. I figure you are so right! If they don't like it they would change their behavior but I was told it was my fault because I was name calling and too judgemental until I walked into the office with a swollen mouth from him slamming a door on me as I was walking through it. Then all I ever heard was I had to leave. I couldn't I was already his prisoner and no one ever understood that. I finally made it out and have had my own place since September. 11 years of trying to escape and I finally did it. Yay!
🤣🤣🤣100%
@@beccapears7573 Cheers to your Freedom dear!!! That and educating ourselves in order to avoid similar situations in the future are the only things that matter!!! P.S. it was 10 years for me too 😉. Good job!
Therapists have done so much damage to my recovery. I don’t think I’ll ever go back to therapy. But survivorship groups, support groups and shamanism has helped way more than therapy has.
@@aungar2403 online and CODA
One of the first things we tell victims trying to leave abusers--don't go to therapy with them! Yes, many therapists are not only invalidating, they keep us trapped. I went to many therapists during my 19 year narcissistic marriage. "Your husband loves you, you are misinterpreting his behavior." smh Therapists want to tell you you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Abuse victims are making molehills out of mountains. We need to be drawn out.
I told my therapist what was happening how I was being treated etc. She listened but just heard me like mirroring back. I think it was CBT she was doing but said but what do I do? She said stay. I stopped seeing her. We went to marriage counseling and he had charts and how to appreciate each other etc. Well what I needed to do was get away from an angry nasty man. And I did. Therapists need to read people and situations not apply a general methodology! It's only when I found you I finally figured it out!
Being asked by my therapist to take responsibility for my “part in the struggles” of our relationship was retraumatizing. Any grasp of reality I was gaining came crashing down everytime I’d try to communicate. These suggestions were SPOT ON - trauma informed, flexible frameworks, groups supports.
Finding the right therapist is key. My daughter’s therapist told me, she was never going to get better if her home was not a place of safety. She then said I had a big decision to make. That’s when I realized that I had to separate from her dad. Many signs before that, but that was the final push I needed. My child’s mental health came first. Note: this appt was after her release from a hospital for self harm
Why did you ever let it go that far? Why don't women protect their children from men?
@@sarahrobertson634 wow.. guess you have never been in a mentally abusive relationship where you don’t know which way is up. It’s taken me years to work through my guilt in not recognizing sooner. Great job victim blaming 10 out of 10.
I so wish my father had made the decisions you did to protect your kid, and it makes me so happy that there are parents out there that put their children's healing first.
My brother and I have both been in the hospital for mental health issues stemming from our abusive upbringings, and my dad choosing to stick his head in the sand and keep his marriage together despite knowing we got abused did an incredible amount of damage to his children.
Thank you for putting your daughter first.
That's a really big realization and I'm so proud of you. ❤ I'm glad you found such a great therapist.
@@KitKat-gw4rh thank you. That was my primary point about finding the right therapist. We had seen several therapist before this that tried to get us to resolve the issues as a family unit. To Dr Romani’s point that many therapist focus on keeping the family together. This therapist was brutally honest and what I needed to hear. Finding the right therapist is critical.
in a lot of ways I believe persisting with my last therapist harmed me more than it helped me. I know her intent was good, however once I opened up about my parents’ alcoholism and their narcissistic tendencies, she would mention her childhood or how she related - and it began to appear that she got more use out of me than I did out of her. Now I realize she likely took my judgements of my parents as insults or judgement toward her parents - It felt like her questions were to benefit her, rather than help me cope or learn anything about myself. she denied validating any form of narcissism or narcissistic tendencies within my parents, and insisted I was severely depressed and avoiding the issues within myself. I spent the last two years ruminating, avoiding therapy, and believing I was broken beyond repair until I found your channel. I have began searching for a therapist I mesh with and hope I can get my life back while I’m still in my 20s. Thank you Doctor Ramani. I owe you big time.
She is an Angel and a Saint. I thank God every night for people like her.
Yeesh. It would be great if therapists have dealt with a lot of their own 'stuff' before helping others. At the least therapists should not be dragging their own stuff into their sessions like that. We are blessed Dr. Ramani shares her insights for free here😊
You go, Zoe! We sure do lose recovery time when we question ourselves after interacting with an unskilled therapist! Glad you shrugged her off. I takes what it takes!
I'm sorry to hear that in the beginning...hug. I had a therapist who seemed to talk just to hear herself talk; she was not really listening to me. Felt so relieved to leave her. So I know what you mean.
That’s such a shame, she should not be practicing as she keeps on harming others instead of helping and forcing people to seek therapy online or through self help books instead of trusting their own therapists
You need a trauma informed therapist, for sure. Someone who understands PTSD. Someone who combines DBT with ACT.
A therapist focussing on self compassion and who knows how to help you work on that. A therapist who also models what setting healthy boundaries looks like, "defends" you from yourself when you beat yourself up emotionally, and who helps you to practice self compassion so that you can naturally set healthy boundaries.
Because folks like us HATE the thought of boundaries, as we think they destroy connection and are "unnatural". A good therapist will make it easy for you to ease into this through ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy) in a way that does not FEEL like you are putting up walls. They will give you terminology that works for you: for example, mine gave me the phrase, "drawing a line in the sand." The word "boundaries" made me think of concrete walls that I could not connect to the world thru, whereas a line in the sand (in my consciousness) still allows me to see everything.
Get a therapist who can help you say to yourself compassionately, "I am a trauma survivor." I found that after I could say this, it freed up everything in my body, mind and heart to actually grieve. Whereas before, my grief was laced with so many other emotions....which isn't inherently bad, but for me it wasn't as productive as when the grief finally hit in a very direct way.
Thank you SO much, Dr. Ramani, for all that you do. You really help us all.
I recently met with a therapist because I was ending a relationship with a narcissist after 3 years. I had tried to end it several times this last year but kept going back and needed help to finish it completely- she knew this prior to our first session. During our first and only session her response to me stating he is emotionally abusive and has narcissistic tendencies was to say "everyone has narcissistic tendencies, I have narcissistic tendencies, you do too" I felt discounted and ignored- pretty familiar feeling by now. When I explained the ways he gaslighted me she said in a manor I took as condemning "Why haven't you just left him?" I wanted to yell out "because he groomed me"- she knew I had tried to leave him. Today is the 8th day I have had him blocked without any contact. I ended it by phone and told him to give all my stuff to Godwill. I told him I was too sensitive for the relationship so he could just focus on blasting me for that and it wouldn't affect me much because I knew any person on this earth is too sensitive for that relationship, so it didn't actually hurt me and the fact that he went straight to unloading on me for that just proved yet again that he doesn't care about my feelings or any truth, he will just grab whatever comment he can to hurt me, confuse me, or punish me regardless of the truth. We are stronger and smarter now. We are survivors!
Good job!! I left my stbx of 18yrs, 6 months ago. He’s blocked, and he blocked our kids, found him a new supply with 2 tween children, within a month of me leaving. This was probably my 7th attempt at leaving. He was becoming more violent and was going to snap and finally put his hands on me. Enough was enough. I’m really happy you got out of that situation. We all deserve healthy love. The narcissist charm, is not real. It’s like the bait at the end of a fishing line, and nothing more. Hang in there. It’s not easy, but as the days pass, it does get a little easier. Just keep it real with yourself and remember exactly who they are, not the nice version your mind will try to hold onto💜
I love this! It's been 4 days since my narcissist left, thinking it was his idea of course bc if I had tried "again", he would just keep hovering me.
They can be so condescensing ...i think what everyone wants is to be heard by the therapist and the issue youre facing has some skills or steps or ideas that are msising they could suggest to us as ideas or choices we may not have thoight of. To ask why havent you left is like saying to a person with an eating disroder causing obesity have you tried not eating the whole cake. 🤔 its a atupid question as well if you knew why you hadnt left youd have left already. Lol. Why havent you lost the weight? Gaaah!
She really got me from day one. The most important thing for me was going no contact. Otherwise I kept getting emotionally battered and could never heal. I started therapy 2 years later. My "wounds" are 60 years old. Good luck to everyone who suffered or is suffering right now. Remember it is not our fault❤
❤️
Its not not your responsibility tho. Its not like somone out a bmgun to your head. A narc relationship has two peopke tangoing in it.
It's not our fault ❤ We have to constantly remind ourselves that we have a choice to walk away, go no contact, state a boundary, speak up, keep ourselves safe and healthy as much as possible. We are not stuck, we have a choice ❤🙏
Find something you’re passionate about and focus on that.
I have no passions, never had any. I am Just tuff shit out of luck. Never had much luck either.
@@rosesharp5981 Make yourself a priority, maybe? Take care of yourself.
I've had a few passions but have no access to them right now.
I’m trying but it’s so hard to focus 😞
@@domoniquekyle7590 I totally understand your words. You have got to try and push yourself even when you do not feel like it. I'm a Christian woman who believes in the hope and the promises of Jesus. My counselor is also a Christian counselor oh, you have got to step out of your comfort zone. Being grateful for a new day to start over. Don't sit and overthink letting your mind and the devil feed you doubts. Find some good Godly Fellowship friends. Ones that do not judge you and are always happy to see you. When I separated from my family who always wanted control over me and mentally and physically abusive period it left me living alone but I would not change it back for anyting.. they only value people from what they can get from them. It took me back to my home Church where I feel welcomed and comfortable. I hope this helps you. God bless
I went to an awesome therapist that specialized in PTSD and Anger Management that worked with many Vets who had him completely diagnosed with NPD within 20 minutes of speaking to him. She told me to run not walk. She said I wasn't the one who needed the therapy it was him. He had me convinced it was me with the issues Lol
Great you can LOL about it now... Now that's progress! x
Could you please drop her/his contact number? I’m really struggling with this right now and need a good therapist that works with this.
@@jennifercorreal9559 likewise!
As a child I tried going to therapy with a narcissistic mother. She did a session by herself and by the next session we were suddenly focused on my role in the “issues” and how I was actually the abuser/problem child. It felt like being in the twilight zone. My mother was an incredibly convincing liar & instead of showing up for therapy prepared to do the work she manipulated the situation into just another tactic for keeping me in line. I couldn’t understand how this therapist wasn’t able to recognize what was happening.
This is what my monster mom would do exactly
Jeez. Hugs. 💜
I had a similar experience...
@@Daydreamer-o1m Man I feel for all you lovely people. My sincerest regrets you endured that shiz. I can relate. It fn sucks and is a back blast into regressed development as you turn into a cornered wounded animal for them to point fingers, " See? Baring your teeth is not for proper young ladies. Get in line and stop abusing your mother after all she does for you." As the abusive mother smirks in satisfaction only you can see.
Was she the one paying for the therapy
My therapist saw right away what was going on and started with self-parenting therapy and focus on boundaries. The boundaries have been life changing! I didn’t realize I grew up a boundaryless person. Between my therapy and your videos, I am a new healthier person, and so positive about the future!
I’m seeing a cognitive behavioral therapist, and she told me “at least he didn’t hit you or steal your money”. Then she told me that the narcissist was merely annoying and not abusive. She told me to consider that I needed to change my thoughts and realize that people don’t always behave the way I want them to. It was really invalidating and frustrating.
Hi Bonnie,
I know you’ll probably never see this. But I’m so sorry you were further harmed by this therapist who did that to you, they were probably a narc as well. Some people just shouldn’t be in medicine of any kind.
I hope that you found the right kind of help, and that you are thriving beyond narcissistic abuse.
Love,
Bonnie Faith
I just got an email notification that there was a reply! Thank you for your kind words and support.
After I wrote this I looked up what constitutes a good therapist and realized mine matched none of them. You’re right- some people don’t belong in a field that involves helping others. I was able to find someone much better and am in a good place now. Thanks again for reaching out.
Things that have been helpful with recovery from my narcissistic relationship are listening to myself, taking care of my hormonal levels, eating healthy, but also letting myself eat something I crave in a moment, spending time with my puppy, taking a ballet class, reading, talking to friends who have an understating of this, taking CBG & CBD, meditation, yoga, jogging, reading, praying, lying in bed and getting myself cozy up whenever I feel like, being able to work from home and have flexible hours, journaling, listening to good music, meeting new friends, spending time in nature and taking walks, writing songs and singing, and of course, watching almost all Dr. Ramani's videos 🥰
This sounds so wonderful. Glad to hear you're doing so well! ❤
@@Taylorschahn444 Thank you ❤️ It’s been 4 months. The first 3 months were the hardest. I’m very greatful for the progress.
Yes. Me too - all these things plus speaking up in online spaces to help others. My healing is going on three years though - still experience trauma effects - because I have very few who can hear me talk about what happened. People still unintentionally deny my reality by not believing me. Plus I'm still not in a safe living space.
@@juliekong5013
Very true. I found only people who also have been through psychological abuse, specifically narcissistic abuse, understand what it’s like and don’t invalidate the experiences we went through. Even well intentioned people don’t seem to get it because this kind of mind f-k is beyond most people’s understanding if they didn’t didn’t personally go through it themselves.
@@juliekong5013 I believe that trauma still can visit from time to time. I hope you will soon get to a safe living space.
Dr. Ramani, after watching countless videos of you speaking on this topic, I feel no one would compare to you. And that's okay! Finally learning to set my expectations and standards higher. Coming from a very narcissistic family and then being in narcissistic relationships over the years, crumbs were all I felt I deserved. I now have set my standards higher, including any therapist that I go to. I just wish I was in the same city as you and I would be on your doorstep. 😊 Keep up the good work! You are healing a lot of people. ❤️
I'm luckily enough to have a awesome counselor that recognized i was with a narcissists with the first visit.
Being gaslit by the world at large is one of the reasons I've endured so much trauma and abuse by so many different people and it's one of the main reasons why I didn't know that leaving was even an option.
I finally left. I am still shattered...but its a million times better than when I was a prisoner in her life.
Two therapists told me that my mother "simply was afraid of losing me". I had not even said that I thought she might be a narcissist. How nice, you seek help and the therapist takes the side of your abuser...
After a twenty year marriage to a narcissist, I, my children and the cat managed to get away with our.lives and sanity more or less intact. I had returned from war in the Middle East, came home with PTSD. I had five years of trauma counselling and I came through it, with a PTSD Counsellor. We went through everything and he helped me move on.
Well done. And as a catlover I'm glad you also rescued the cat 😻
@@Picca65 of course, there's no way I was leaving her behind! 😁❤❤
I had a therapist that I started seeing that told me that I needed to stop being a victim when I was telling her the abuse that I was getting from my narcissistic ex. 🙄 I dropped her after the third session, and I found a therapist who after hearing my story asked if I had ever heard of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
After she said that, the card fell into place and I realized I was with a very toxic narcissist and she helped me to break free of him.
Finding a therapist who gets it is absolutely key to getting over the abuse from these individuals.
congrats
Amen to point #2! The first therapist I saw was trained cognitive behavioral, and the thing that I felt hampered my recovery was her discounting my history of what happened. She was extremely focused on the moment and the past didn't really matter. It mattered to me! I had to deal with a narc mother who gaslighted me into thinking the world was an evil place where no one could be trusted. It lead to many years of trust issues with friends, classmates, teachers, boyfriends, co-workers and bosses. Validating someone's past trauma with a narc is vital and should never be swept under the rug.
I've found CBT and therapists that cling to it to be singularly unhelpful with healing from Narcissistic abuse and trauma.
“If the person is being gaslighted by the world at large, it makes being gaslighted in their relationships much worse” - as an LGBTQ+ survivor of abuse this sentence was so powerful. Thank you for seeing us and getting it Dr Ramani.
❤️ I see you..and I deeply feel you, more than you think.
The thing I’ve experienced most from the numerous counselors I’ve seen is silencing and invalidation. The one I was forced to see recently won’t allow me to talk about the abuse and the fact of the matter is that though it’s been so many years in “therapy “ I haven’t talked about any of it. This was partially due to the fact that I was so traumatized I blocked out my memories until I was almost 60. I couldn’t remember anything. But some of it was because the “therapists “ didn’t really want to hear about it. They silenced me just like my abusers did. It’s been a horrible experience with them. None of them knew how to handle someone as traumatized as me. Without money in America I found you get the worst of the worst as far as therapists go.
Curious to know if the therapist was a narcissist themself
I've practiced journaling, blogging, art and gardening between sessions. Learning herbalism helped a lot. Same with domestic violence groups.
I really do appreciate this video. I’ve been to several different therapists who do not really validate what I’ve been through. I feel like I’m drowning in the deep end of the pool and everyone is screaming, “hey! If you just swim you’ll be ok”. But I can’t swim. at 5 months out, the depression is deep and pervasive. The feeling of pathological loneliness. I do what I can, meditate, pray, go to my 12-step program, journal, exercise, read, and work as a nurse. But, the most important things in life, family, friends do not understand and I believe see me as a failure and a foolish woman who has made one bad choice after another. At 53, I’m becoming invisible and more isolated in my pain. No therapist has been able to help me with that. You tell them you’ve been through narcissistic abuse and I can almost feel them rolling their eyes. It’s the buzzword lately, so I suffer in silence. I wish I could have you as my therapist Dr Ramani. I feel I’ll never stop crying
Hey…. ❤️🙏🏽✌🏼❤️ I hear you, and understand… I see You. Don’t feel such a failure either, sounds like you’ve accomplished Lots!!! Just wanted you to know You Are Worthy! Keeeep Taking Care Of You! 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Amen YES
Yes
Thank you for your work as a nurse. You make a difference in the world. I know a stranger saying this probably doesn't really help, considering all of the stuff you've been through and are still going through, but I admire you and hope that the people you love start to understand and support you, and that better things come your way!
@@marylacey5078 🥺 Thanks to all
Of you who responded. It touches me and again, I cry. When someone shows me some tenderness, the icy wall I’m
Building around my heart melts a little and the tears come. It’s hard to hear because you’ve been programmed that you’re too emotional, too sensitive, “I’m not responsible for your feelings”, too this or too that and you believe you’re defective in every way.
Again, thank you for your kindness 🙏
I had a male "Christian counselor" that said I was "just as much at fault" as my husband (ex now). Thankfully I found a counselor that understood narcissism.... she helped me to leave and recover.
I guess my posts are being tripped up right now by yt touchy filters. I used no common iffy words. Ugh. What a waste of time the bots make trying to type legit replies.
this resonates as does this video. I've heard the clients "co-create these situations[with really messed up, even aggressive type/s]." Maybe that was the wording you were given or something similar.
Like Dr Dirvasula said - that's a deal breaker, when it becomes a theme of blaming/criticising the client for behaviour of a really disturbed individual
@@camerong5513It is akin to the disturbed person themselves creating a war out of thin air, you caught by surprise and shock. After they glean whatever mental prize they got out of it--and you're shellshocked and angry (possibly their prize)--they go: "Well I said some things and you said some things... We're both to blame."
And sometimes: "OK. I'm sorry... Now YOU say sorry to me.... Uh, uh, uhhhh 🎵 You called me an SOB. YOU have to apologize tooooo... Well you're not exactly being fair. When you're ready to be adult I'm ready for my apology. 😇"
Psyche damaging.
@@C.Church yes, that's the flavour of what I've seen with a N, and like you said, it comes out of thin air - a difference of opinion, sharing feedback with them or just their bad mood
This video helps so much. I am still upset, yet self-blaming about a therapist experience several years back. She was recommended highly, has more "letters after her name" than you can count. She told me I never had to visit my narcissistic father again. I made it for three months, then saw him and he got to me and upset me. When I told her, she actually took a box of tissues, placed them atop her knee, then asked "Do you know what you did with my advice?" I said, "What?"....She then smacked the box of tissues across the room to show me what I had done. I began to cry. It was so jarring, upsetting. Those who know of, or have been to, this therapist discount my feelings, my actions in quitting working with her, etc. I will probably still blame myself, but this video helped validate my feelings and decision to leave. Thank you.
Dr. Ramani,
You have saved my insanity and I know my life. As a mental health professional, my journey and your education have made me a better therapist, parent, and a better me.
Thank you for providing such great information & compassion to the world. You are truly a light in the darkness.
I found that I have given myself hobbies...pampering time and focusing on myself...I found so much understanding and comfort from your videos....your so educated in this field dr ramani...I have chosen you as my therapist, self healing with your videos is doing it for me. X
So glad you knew to leave and not go back. I cant imagine someone being silenced by a therapist, but it happens. I'm sure you felt so invalidated and gaslit in that session. I hope you are healing and doing better ❤
How is self therapy helping you? Is it hard ?
@@daniellefennell3877 you need to read and understand what was happening to you and but all your energy into something you enjoy...Read Read Read..its the best medicine..once you realise the behaviour pattern...it should all fall into place...love yourself xx
After walking away from my narc family, i started a fresh. Spending time alone, learning a new language and i'm restarting my education as my mother didn't want me to go to college. For once in my life i have a choice and i'm making the most of it.
My first therapist decided for me I had to work on the 'ungrounded anxiety' around my abuser. She shared with me that my enabling stepfather had sent her a letter I was not allowed to read, flapping it in front of me stating that he was very worried about me and frankly, after reading it, she was too. I had to suffer months of desentesisation therapy getting increasingly anxious and depressed because not even my therapist would create a safe space for me. Now that Im looong out and healed, Im flabbergasted by this lack of professionalism. In the end, a supportive emdr therapist helped me beat ptsd and restored my faith in the idea of therapy
I start EMDR tomorrow after 25 years of Narcissistic abuse in a marriage and a childhood of Narcissistic abuse. I pray there's hope.
@@janh7316 I am in the same situation exactly after 22 years and with the mental childhood abuse. What is EMDR and how's it working for you so far? Thank you.
Holy sh*t especially because these “letters” are such a typical thing narcissists do
Just realizing my sister was the narcissistic in the family.
Everything I’m learning from narcissism (from Dr. Ramani) looking back I see it all!
I’m 43 and I suffer from the abuse she did to me, that I never saw! Everybody should know about this!
Thank you Dr. Ramani, Naomi
There seems to be a lot of info about narcissistic parents and partners, but not about narcissistic siblings. And narc abuse can be so subtle and insidious that people just dismiss it as 'sibling rivalry', or 'kids don't realise they're being cruel' or my all time favourite 'you were too sensitive'. I'm 46 and still trying to come to terms with it too. Wishing you all the best.
Similar story here! My sister is the narcissist in my family. Her along with my mother, her ally, they destroyed my family. My two older kids don't speak to me anymore. My sister was a monster when I was growing up. Her abuse on top of my mother's neglect and gaslighting set me up to struggle in every relationship I ever had. I'm trying to find a way to leave my 3rd narcissistic relationship and it has been hard trying to put a plan together and leave. I'm 48 and still figuring things out, coming to terms, grieving and moving forward at the same time. Wishing you the best outcome! Keep moving forward
In the last 23 years of “counseling” I have NEVER ONCE had a therapist EVER even use the terms: Narcissism, Narcissistic Abuse or even Gaslighting. If fact, MOST of them gaslighted me!!! 😭🤬😭🤬😭
I never heard of it in my undergraduate psychology classes either, what classes should one look for to learn about it?
😢🤭😥 ==> move on.. you deserve so much more and better 🎈
I love the cat who pops in 😍. I'm a trainee psychotherapist in the UK and my interest in narcissism and Dr Ramani came about from having left a narcissistic relationship, and what I suffered. its definitely not taught in the curriculum, I want to be a therapist who is well informed on this topic
Can you help me?
@@laylakhan5180 is that to me Layla?
I love Dr. Ramani's cat too.
The best silver lining to a narc attack is turning survivors into expert trauma and narc abuse therapist - good luck! x
And yes... Cat vid bomb is GOLD! 😻
The right therapist here is key! I had one who did nothing for me, read emails from my ex and asked how it made me feel… my new one addresses the emails, gives me strategies to deal with my ex who is a narc, points out the gaslighting, the blameshifting, assures me that I am not crazy despite my ex’s attempt to make me sound and be crazy!! My therapist GETS IT!!! I am beyond thankful for her!!! I hope you all find the right one to start healing too!! Stay strong!!!
It took me 6 yrs to find out my ex was a narcissist. And it was shear chance that I came across these videos.
One of the biggest issues I had with therapists who didn't understand narcissism was that they assumed I just didn't know how to have healthy relationships. As in for example they assumed I knew nothing about things like communication and boundaries. Without me even asking them to they turned the therapy sessions into basically lectures where they sat there and taught me how to do my part in a healthy relationship. I thought a lot of what they said wasn't necessarily bad. A lot of it was things that felt like common sense and that I had already been implementing in my normal relationships which was going well. Sometimes it did seem like they were talking down to me and assuming I was kind of dumb, especially when they said sort of obvious things like, "It's wrong when someone lies to you." I'm not saying I didn't hear anything halfway decent from these lectures I'm just saying 1. I didn't ask for them, 2. Most of it was kind of obvious stuff which also felt kind of condescending at times, and most importantly 3. Advice on how to have healthy relationships with non-narcissistic people really does not apply to relationships with narcissists. Even the parts that kind of apply just feel completely different in the context of a narcissistic relationship.
So it always felt "off" when these lectures happened because I felt like these therapists not only probably shouldn't have been lecturing me when I didn't ask them to but they also really didn't understand the context of what I was coming to them with.
There are a lot of therapists who will invalidate you then claim "It is my job to challenge you". If they need to justify and excuse it as 'challenging you' they are doing it WRONG. A challenge should not cause us harm, it should simply help us think about something from a different perspective and we have the right to agree or disagree with it. My therapist challenges me and I LOVE it because it's poignant, measured, gentle and helpful. Even when I have disagreed with the alternative view she proposes she listens and validates me. I know she cares and I always feel safe with her.
The advice I got was the need for "healthy, honest conversation" to share views and move to compromise. The therapist could not understand when I said, "That will not be helpful. Anything I say like that will only come back onto me in double force later. I will be punished in some way." I could see the therapist looking oddly at me. Back then, I didn't know what it was I was dealing with, but I sure did know it was pointless to make myself vulnerable!
I know what you mean. I moved to the San Francisco Bay Area to get away from my toxic family. I tried to find someone to help me deal with the fact that my siblings hated me that much.
The first several counselors/therapists challenged everything I told them about the way my siblings treated me. I would get questions like: "do you think that you might be overreacting?" or "so you think that all eight of them were wrong and you were right?"
Second, I got the "you need to confront them to get closure."
Third, they would give simplistic, stereotypical explanations. "They are jealous of your accomplishments." I would point out that they are just as "accomplished" (whatever that is) as I am. They would accuse me of refusing to listen to their advice.
Finally, I realized that I did not need someone to give me answers, I needed to be heard.
@@mervyngreene6687 that last statement is a huge YES!! When I was with my last therapist, immediately I knew that I didn’t need advice. I hardly wanted her to talk! I wanted to be heard. Not listened to. Heard. Seen and validated. Because of Dr Ramini, I know what I’ve experienced. I always felt that something was off about my parent but it wasn’t until high school where I really noticed it and damn near went crazy because unfortunately, the adults that were “closest” to me where all practically the same. Not saying they were all narcissists but they acted just as terrible. So yeah! I get you..
Yes therapist dismissed my questions about the abuse. More gaslighting. Ha
Educating myself was key in coming to terms with this topic. Thanks to all the wonderful therapists. Thanks to Dr. Ramani and several others.
This: Love yourself enough to Remove the narcissist from your life completely and going forward only allow loving, positive, unselfish people in your life.
You are God sent, Dr. Ramani!🙏🏻🙏🏻🤗
My therapist asked what “hoovering” was, I had to school her for a second, finding a therapist who gets it is so IMPORTANT. I’m still going to keep going to her but sometimes I just don’t know if I should stick with her or someone else
I think my therapist having a background in trauma is incredibly helpful. My therapist has took it upon herself to learn about narcissistic abuse and that is also so important. Hopefully you can find someone like that but I highly recommend finding someone with a background in trauma therapy if you cannot find a therapist versed in narcissistic abuse. 💕
Last week I had to explain to my therapist what Gaslighting is. There was a good opportunity to do that as she was in the middle of gaslighting me :) She has truly good intentions, but so little expertise in this field and it often seems she gets more out of our sessions than I do. On the other hand there is no guarantee whatsoever that I'll be able to find someone more suitable, so I guess I'll stick with her for now. At least she did recognize that her behavior towards me was wrong. To anyone in a similar situation: It is important to remember what baddass of a surviver you are
Follow your gut. She might be helpful for now and after a while not so much anymore. I did CBT, but it didn't help me enough, so I will continue with a coach who knows about narcissism (it's impossible rn to find a therapist who can take on new patients).
Find another therapist.
@@Picca65 I agree. I think that’s in part why I went with who I have now, a lot of my areas therapists are booked and it’s hard finding new ones, will follow my gut and pray about it because right now I can’t really tell
7 years ago I was dismissed by our marriage counselor, fast forward to 7 months ago it became violent. The State charged him with domestic violence and I went no contact. Thank goodness for you and the trauma specialist I had access to for months after the ER visit
Feeling, taking space for myself is the most imoortant thing that I came across, feeling is a whole journey, of coming out of my head and into my body, cause the body doesn't lie and this is where I can build my confidence and support of knowing what is true vs false, what is sane vs insane, what is healthy vs unhealthy, what is nurturing vs unnuturing etc
The best therapy after suffering narcissistic abuse is you Dr Ramani ❤️
It's infuriating and makes for a very inadequate experience. I have my personal stories and I've given up trying to find support from a therapist which costs money, and a waste if you don't get what you need. The best help for me is to just keep listening to videos, reading, and I've devised ways of selfcare that are valuable to me. I'm lonely though because there is no one that really knows me, gets it, or appreciates what I'd love to be able to share. People are sooo cagey. I hate to have to learn from trying to get to know someone, only to find that it's been time spent finding out that it's not working
Same here 💜
Yes exactly
Wow. Thankyou for articulating this so well. I can relate!
@@winnieamar9368 your welcome, so glad
Same here.
I’m a therapist and this is helpful for blind spots. Thanks!!
My therapist was solely focused on cbt he just wanted to reprogram my thinking. Putting all the blame on me. He was basically gaslighting me from the very first session so I had to leave him for my sanity. About 5 months later I came across you channel And started watching your videos which has helped me to make sense of my life and recover from the abuse. Still working on my attachment issues and trauma bonding.
Thanks for your magnificent work. You have guided me through the worst times of my life and I will always be grateful for that,wish you good health so you can continue your great work Thanks for doing this
EMDR therapy worked wonders for me. It transformed my life and healed my CPTSD
After over 20 years in a marriage with covert narcissistic abuse, being dragged into couples counseling with a counselor whom he was able to manipulate and control sessions, finding a doctor who skillfully led my recovery, went back to school to become a therapist myself to help others who have gone through this hell, i am so surprised now how many clients report their prior therapists have done these things. Knowledge and education about recovering from this abuse is so much needed. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani for your work. I have been watching your videos for a long time which have been a great help in my continuing recovery and finally have courage to comment online.
I am a therapist but also have my own stories and I am interested in learning the credentials when they are created to be considered a narcissistic abuse expert…. Please keep us posted Dr. Ramani
Check out we need to talk with Kris Godinez here on youtube. You might find some answers there, Kris is a little more blunt but entertaining and full of knowledge and books she and others have written on this topic.
You can also obtain a C-PD certification as well as read .. there is so much info ( academic ), also when Dr Ramani facilitates a training I would go . I’ve been to every one of her trainings thus far and it’s so very informative.
Please check out top scholar Sam Vaknin to truly understand the psychology behind narcissism.
After a 10 year relationship and three couple therapies, I concluded therapy is just not for me. Never was the word “abuse” uttered. Never did they mentioned I did not deserve the constant yelling & insulting. I believe this happened because therapists are trained not to confront but to make the patient come into his own realization of the problem. That never happened for patient narcisist but left me feeling like an intolerant, exagerated, nor commited partner.
I had to convince him to go to three therapies and at the end the real problem was never named.
Ted talks and this channel are the only placed I’ve found that put a name to a terrible, unacceptable behavior that keeps going on two years after we signed the divorce. Now, the flawd legal system is his best ally on keeping the economic and mental abuse going on and on.
Xactly why i hate therapie. I used to like the idea of it but the people are abusing therapy in their own benefits. They dont acknowlegde peoples problems in a neutral way nor give constructed long term help for it. Thats why i gave up on therapy. Life will always throw something at people. No matter how many times we have therapy.
I was 4 years in an abusuve relationship with a therapist and one year with an ineffective one. My whole family is a narcissistic tragedy, as well as my coubtry's elected government.
Unfortunately, tt's the whole world..., we've been dealing with alien consciousness planetary invasion for hundreds or thousands of years. THAT IS the actual virus.
I hope and pray that you find loving, empathic and nurturing others in your life. Begin with one! Hopefully like minded people will gravitate toward your circle.. seek qualities like * kindness and good (not cruel) humor * 🐛.. 🦋
@Mateus Eduardo Faria de Oliveira
I went through a very similar experience with my narcissistic family and narcissistic therapists and narcissistic psychiatrists. The important thing is you’re aware of what happened and now you know better. You’re armed with knowledge and you can only navigate through life better than before on your road to recovery. You can do this. You’re a survivor.
I ran into a therapist, and another one, who after hearing just a few things, even tho these were very clear examples of obvious abuse, suggested me that I can have codependent personality and shifted the blame of abuse just right on me. At first I was puzzled, shocked even. I was an independent thinker since I was a kid, a truth teller, I guess, honest but caring, I knew the difference between telling the truth and hurting others, nobody who really knows me couldn't produce such absurd statement. I'm just struggling so hard right now to escape this controlling monsters! Yet this "professionalist" told me not knowing the whole story that I "glued" myself first to the narc husband and his narc family and now, going thru the divorce, i glued myself to my sister. (Side note: He left me after a surgery with nothing, without any warning and thankfully my sister can help me with some stuff, that's normal human behaviour, to help each other in hard times, isn't it?). Glued? Whoa! Hold your horses. Come again? I well hate this that I haven't noticed right away what I got into but for God's sake, it's not easy when you fall in love and fall prey to such viscious people, bc that is what's happened - I was being brain-washed and gaslit for few years not by one person but by a whole bunch of them, coordinated! I got very messed up after the session with that "therapist" but thanks to you, Dr Ramani, and few other normal people around, I got back to sanity. It's already hard enough to deal with all the harmful brain-washing effects of such abuse and when you seek for help you get what? What I am saying is, if you seek for therapy, be awared that many "professioanlists" out there are not professional at all and thanks to Dr Ramani, that she is speaking this crucial truth!
It seems highly likely you are codepemdant. Why would you think youre not. Most people who end up with a narc are codependsnt. And also its your therpaist they cant do anything about anyone else all they can do is deal with you. But did they even explalin what codependant means. Cos you dont seem to know what that means. Its very hard to be in a narc abusive relationship and not be codependant. Doesnt matter if youre indeoendant truuth teller. If you truly were independant truth teller youd have said to this abusive guy the truth about his behaviour and walked away. Sounds like you just werent ready to take responsibility and wanted to moan a bit about being the victim for a while first. I get that. The therapists can be too challenging too quickly.
I had already listened to this video a few weeks ago, and I even took a few notes, but I came back to listen again because my new-ish therapist just asked my opinion about how she could help me more, in what ways she could help and support me. Being abused by multiple narcs had left me feeling unable to advocate for myself. I had lost the ability to even fathom that I had the right to think of my own needs, let alone thinking of a list of things that I needed from anyone. And even if I could think of what I needed, saying them aloud is traumatizing, like I'm endangering myself by speaking them aloud. So I have a lot trouble answering that type of question. But listening to Dr R helps me wrap my brain around thinking about what I really need from a therapist.
"Those wounds are where Light enters us." - such a great point by Rumi 🌞 ❤ 🌞
Amazing quote, thanks for re-posting it 💕
I've always been into music 🎵🎶 and playing my drums 🥁 is my airplane, thanks DR RAMANI and survivors and thrivers 🙏
My experience has been really brutal.. Married 45 years, 2 adult daughters. My husband was tragically killed in a helicopter crash .…1 day after learning of his death we learned he had been living with another woman for 7 years, splitting his week with me. We were beyond shocked. Your videos have opened my eyes to the narcissistic patterns and lies in my marriage. How does learning about adultery after the death of the narcissist change my recovery? Starting trauma therapy Monday🙏
You have to go through all the lies that you went through that you thought was the truth. Reprocess your life through the eyes of what really happened. He did not care about anyone but his ego. You will heal . You have more than one grief to process. He was a master manipulator. You must process the trauma or else you will have triggers and anxiety and nightmares that affect you greatly.
Gosh, sorry to read this. I pray you get the help you need. Truly awful man.
I can relate
Hope you're doing well honey.
This is so sad. I really feel for you.
The thing is: it is such complex trauma where abuse happens systematically day in day out for years, and when it happened in childhood it is deeply intertwined with the forming of personality and all aspects of functioning in the adult life.
Standard trauma therapy works when trauma can be located to 1 specific day and hour, and is more focusing on numbing it down, than learning from the experience.
Triggers are like wormholes to (otherwise isolated and suppressed) traumatic experiences, but triggers hardly happen during a therapy session.
It feels like you have fallen into deep waters without ever having learned to swim, drowning, again and again.
Your survival-instinct will take over and there's no room for anything else than that.
It's very hard to make contact with the wise part of yourself that could talk you through it, be there for you, empowering yourself, attending your needs and best interests, setting healthy boundaries, with self respect, self-love, self-confidence, self-trust, self-worth.
It's like the survival part is screaming right in your ear while the wise part is merely a soft distant murmuring.
When Triggers would be used in combination with regression therapy, accessing an otherwise isolated deep part of yourself, going through it again, but with the difference that this time you will say, do, act in line with self-love, self-respect, and so on.
Learning what you never learned to do.
Standing in your own power, knowing that from this place, the outside world can not get to you; you are safe within your own healthy boundaries.
This is my perspective in the context of my own experiences in ptsd and 10 years of unsuccessful Mainstream therapy.
The choice in therapist is so important. I was gaslit and emotionally abused by more than one therapist. Don’t be afraid to “break up” with a therapist that just doesn’t get it. You deserve proper therapy.
I am blessed to have a trauma informed therapist. I asked her if she was familiar with your work and she said YES! The work I do in between sessions include: journaling, listening to uplifting music listening to inspiring RUclips videos - Oprah, Les Brown, Mel Robbins and others, sensory exercises, loving my inner child work, documenting my thoughts and triggers.
“Therapy is your space, your story, your experience!”+💙
11:28
Thank you Doctor Ramani ❤️
Mine got mad at me because i give up on journaling alot lol. But we started emdr and it's really helping. He's looking into other stressors in my life and there's many. Now he just got pissed and is all like "you know what? Forget the journaling, just do one nice thing for yourself per day" since i have a tendency to put myself last all the time. He's trauma informed and i like him so far, been 3 months!
Dr. Ramani, thank you for all your videos. Life changer for me. I grew up in a narcissistic family. I was the scape goat in my family. Lots of trauma from which i am still recovering. I was very lucky that in my late 40s I started therapy with a loving and nonjudgmental therapist. What a life changer. I still struggle internally to be strong and to put strong boundaries with my parents and siblings. Guilt is the hardest thing to work on. But with the help of my therapist and your videos i am getting better. Thank you so much for all you do!❤️
❤️ ❤️ ❤️ In weekly therapy 15 months with a good one. Once I told my narc of 38 years that I won’t live this way any more, I chose individual therapy first “to make sure I wasn’t crazy”, first.
It’s taken 15 months to find myself significantly healed inside. It’s totally different and marvelous, the way I experience life. Dr. Ramani and this community form a large part of my support. I had to backspace a lot here; for now, I will just say I practice between sessions when a situation arises that corresponds to a tip or insight from the last session; and I reflect a bit ASAP after I leave the session on what they said, to remember it. Example: for unhelpful thoughts, I yell silently, “STOP! I get to choose how I inhabit my day.”
I did it while listening to this video when negative self-talk tried to creep in the back door of my mind, habituated by a lifetime of harsh criticisms from narcissistic.
😂 And that was the short version. Thank you, Dr. R and everyone for helping me to remember daily that I don’t have to buy what every Tom, Narc, and Harry is selling.
There's a wealth of unparalleled wisdom in your work and embedded in your channel, Dr. Ramani. ❤
Its the invalidation of defending my abusive parents who PAY them.
That mush feel very invalidating how can you even be honest with the therapist knowing they'll repeat it to your parents, who are the problem, I feel ya stay strong
@@catherinepraus8635 💚💜🙏🙏
For help with a N, actively abusive mother, I went to a "trauma-informed" therapist who told me, "Since my expertise is trauma, I am going to help you understand the trauma that your mother experienced." That was the sum of what she had to offer someone like me.
That was awful!
I had horrible therapy experiences. Totally heard all those invalidating excuses for the narc. One of the best Ramani videos. I wish we could all see her!