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Guardian VS Meta-alloy VS normal & engineered MODULES [Elite Dangerous]
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2018
- How does GUARDIAN, META-ALLOY & normal parts compare?
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Josh Kirsch/Media Right Productions - Morning Stroll
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![Guardian vs normal & engineered WEAPONS [Elite Dangerous]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6E9JeDjzyPs/mqdefault.jpg)
![Guardian vs normal & engineered WEAPONS [Elite Dangerous]](/img/tr.png)
![Guardian ship launched fighter "review" [Elite Dangerous]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HtMO7tZ6mYw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Elite tips : Engineering [Elite Dangerous]](/img/1.gif)
Guardian FSD booster? Genuinly useful module.
indeed and so is the shield thing!
Frontier needs to get off the vertical progression train quick, before this becomes WoW in space.
New enemies! We're powerless! New weapons! We do more damage now! They do more damage to us! New armor! We take less damage now! New ships! Because none of our 20 ship types do anything!
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Or...new gear! It's not as good as what we've got! Who cares!
Meanwhile a new player finds the courage to fly in open...and gets instantly annihilated by some tier 10 engineered guardian hybrid supercharged void-powered black hole cannon equipped Anaconda mk V that cost its pilot 221,045,735,845 credits and over two thousand engineering rolls to allow it to fire its planet cracker beam cannons for five minutes straight without overheating. Roll your eyes at the hyperbole all you want but that is the place this road takes us, every single time. Look at any MMO with a level progression system and see what I see. Then change my mind.
therealbahamut that why I laugh when folk say PvP and mmo in the same sentence.
@GiRayne Amen to that. Power creep is not the way to renew interest; it just renews frustration. You're right that the engineering difference isn't astounding but it IS tangible and considerable. Even I have to admit I'm damn near spoiled by thermal vent weapons and clean drive thrusters. That's the problem with vertical progression: it sets a benchmark. Being below that benchmark quickly becomes an unacceptable place to be and people below it are quickly marginalized and namecalled. "Noob." "Pleb." "Scrub." "Doesn't even have a Jump-a-Conda yet, LOL."
The sad part is that I know, on some level, Fdev recognizes this. My proof? Orerre, Koli Discii and Dav's Hope. Places where engineering mats drop in infinite supply, require relogging, and are basically next door to material traders, allowing us to gather the maximum supply of literally everything, right there in one spot, FAR more efficiently than any normal gameplay. They're a horrible band-aid for a growing design flaw and Fdev needs to rip the band-aid off and apply some alcohol and sew the damn wound shut already.
therealbahamut Amen to that! 🙏
Power creep is something that happens to all evolving/live games over time, but the key factor is the "creep", as in slow.
What WoW and a bunch of other games is more like one-upsmanship. New expansion comes out, and the new trash is better than the old epics/legendaries.
It sucks being on a treadmill that has sudden increases in speed, but every game has at least one thing that sucks.
I can't say these "improved" gear in Elite are really upgrades or not, but they may their place, and from the descriptions of several of them, it sounds like Thargoid hunting only.
Oh well, that's my two cents/credits/drachma/elmonits/coppers/whatever :)
The problem in Elite with the thargoids is that the gear isn't "upgrades." AX weaponry was content gating. Goids appear, normal weapons do nothing. AX weapons work, so you HAVE to get them to fight goids. Then they start to suck, so guardian weapons appear. Now bigger goids appear, so we need bigger guardian weapons, etc etc etc. It's not upgrades when the game just buffs enemy stats/makes them invicible to compensate. It's not even powercreep at this point; it's just narrative gating and it's even MORE frustrating.
you forgot one thing about the guardian power distributor, it boosts the power output of your power plant (because of some reason)
It would be great if there were bonuses for stacking guardian weapons and modules.
One note about the Distro?
Ok, ~G3 charge enhanced super conduit... And +4% power generation.
That's a key note.
It might not be the best chsrge performance available to us with a fully unlocked Dweller, but that4% on a Viper and Vulture does make a difference, and on the big ships is like a whole extra small plant
I found that in some builds using a guardian power plant 1 size smaller would give me enough power at less mass, resulting in greater jump range, and in bigger ships reducing the size of the power plant reduces the size of the rebuy.
@Gibbo 1986 But you could just get a 2A Powerplant with g4 or 5 overcharged, stripped down, more power, same efficiency and lighter than the Guardian PP
Hue Hue - i like how he misspelled Expensive as Expencive :D
It often takes a while, until the youtube servers are rdy to give you the higher resolution.
ah fuck meee
LOL that means it's really 360p
is that an invitation darling?
Try re uploading mate.
You forgot guardian power distributor give you 4% more power
ooooh fuck right
TheYamiks And the FSD booster, the only Guardian module that isn't worthless.
And Guardian power distributors themselves also USE 4 percent more power than human ones, so ... whats the point!? :D :/ Like putting V8 to your VW Beetle that has double the horsepower compared to its normal motor (yeah, i know. Gotta be hell of a lot more) but its performance is gonna be exactly the same as before because of exactly the same power to weight ratio! :P (But would sound much better!)
@@timppaUT But that's wrong. The Guardian distributors do draw more power but they don't draw exactly 4% more, that would defeat the entire bonus (as you describe). The actual usable power increase is more like 2%-3%. Which, if you have a large enough power plant, would be the difference between getting one more shield booster up and running.
@Urazz pretty sure module reinforcement does something with shields too. Or at least it does now anyways.
I unlocked 6 Guardian items in 2 short evenings of play. Some of the stuff is actually quite decent, for the little work involved, a decent short-cut to a better powerplant and further improved FSD range. It wasn't even much of a grind, compared to the other stuff in the game anyway. The parts let me finally solo a Goid, but I would actually recommend just unlocking the normal engineer stuff, even though it is the biggest grind (and a cheap excuse for gameplay) just to get what is essentially hacks. At best the experience finally sucked me in to the rest of engineering (I've only bothered with FSD mods ever), which gives me something to do. The personal narrative chat is absolute shit though.
Have to agree with Yamiks, if you already engineer, then the Guardian items (excluding weapons) are redundant... Who wants a G3 module when you can have G5?
Except the fsd boosters don't work with any other type of boost at all
@Lance Jacobs Works with Jet Boosts, but i havnt tried synthesised FSD boosts yet.
FullMetalFox oh they fixed them agian?
@Lance Jacobs Apparently, with the class 5 one my mildly engineered AspX has ~62 LY jumprage, with neutrons ive had multilpe jumps around 240 LY, once even jetisoned some carge to get the last few digits on a jump that was close to 250 LY
alright, so the thing about thargoids is they only do 2 types of damage: absolute (which bypasses all resistances) and corrosive (which only the meta and guardian hull reinforcement give s a resistance to). now i mead a redit post on the subject doing the maths and came to the conclusion that meta gets curb stomped by engineered hull reinforcements. however because the guardian reinforcements have a higher resistance, it might be better to get them. would need to do the math on it to find out but i'm too lazy to do so right now.
As I understand it one added benefit of the Guardian Power Distributor is it lets you exceed your power plant normal capacity by a couple of percent. Might be useful for some builds.
very few and too few between!
True, certainly nothing I'm interested in building.
Guardian Shield Booster only one that is decent out of the lot, my shields are strangely good with them.
all other modulars work in a pinch when you can't be bothered to engineer a power plant or a power distributer for a new ship that comes out.
Ok, few notes:
- You don't need to gather materials, like for engineering. Which I hate.
- I'm noob in ED and I prefer to grind all Guardian modules once to get G3 equivalent (which I did - took me 4 evenings and was kind of cool).
- There's also FSD Boost and Shield Boost which I find quite usefull.
So yes, the Guardian modules are quite good IMHO. But, I'm not very experienced in ED and I hate whole material gathering thing, so I prefer to pay more CR and do less engineering.
KR
I see your point and sure everyone has their own take on things!
qrak What does the shield boost do the guardian one I mean. Increase the boost ?
It gives you a flat increase of shield mj. Good for ships like the FAS where it pretty much doubles my shield strength but on shield tanks it's not useful
finn Not quite following you, I know the normal boosters give a 20 percent boost without engineers, I mean if a guardian one gives a bigger boost in percentage?
the guardian boosters go into your optional compartments like hull and module reinforcements
Thanks for the valuable summary. I have been coming to a similar conclusion. The only guardian module worth pursuing is the FSD booster.
These would actually be awesome if you got bonuses the more guardian parts you had (sort of like an armor set bonus in rpgs), say to the point where they approached the quality of fully engineered modules. Even better: what if guardian modules gave a bonus to the use of Guardian weapons? More range or less heat and distributor draw from guardian weapons if they are hooked up to a guardian power distributor? Maybe the weapons draw less power from a guardian power plant?
That's a big investment in time and credits, but that'd make for an interesting and unique ship... the sort of one you might find in a P E R S O N A L N A R A T I V E
Haven't gotten around to unlocking half of the engineers so far... So Guardian Power Plant is useful in my Vulture. (I can have shields! ;-) ). One other use. since they have the power of the next upper class, say class 4 guardian is as powerful as class 5 human. But it's less heavy (roughly half the weight). So they're good for expolartion ships.
I do like the Guardian FSD booster and it is easier for me to get a Guardian Power Plant that fits my build than to engineer my Power Plant.
I know this isn't the video for it but damn Yamiks I love you and OA in videos together, it's a great dichotomy. This was well done too
I'm told that ("on average") it is faster to get the Guardian Hybrid equivalent because it only requires a one-time material collection, whilst the Engineering path requires you to complete the various Engineer conditions (how to hear about them, then get an invite, then deliver them something (and that's not even counting the scenario where you have to complete a engineer delivery to become friendly enough with them to unlock another engineer who you have to do the same to just to unlock the engineer you actually care about)) and then gather a larger number of materials for the repeated Engineering rolls. And that only applies to a single module, whereas the Guardian Hybrid modules are infinitely purchasable at any size when unlocked.
it is faster to get them IF you know where to look and what to get! But it's a very short term solution!
Isn’t the Guardian Module Reinforcement supposed to resist attacks which shut individual modules down?
I know I'm over 2 years late, but the guardian parts need to be engineerable at a special "Alien Tech Engineer", who can only upgrade them to G3. They're already experimental so no effects. I think that would be fair.
I've been on a Guardian kick of late. Unlocked the FSD booster and the Trident fighter. Working on the PP/PD and the other modules. Just not sure if I'm going to finish all of them. :P Probably get the shield booster. My engineering is still pretty low (only G1 PP, nothing on PD) so those might be useful. Meh.
""EXPENCIVE"" - yamiks 2018
RUclips should get the Guardian video encoder.. guess the grind is too much.
360p after 3 hours :D
See, my theory is that FD are going to eventually introduce guardian versions of everything - then, as the technology 'becomes more mass produced' in lore terms, simply upgrade the 'standard' modules or even leave 'guardian' as a rank above class A equipment. After this, they allow for engineering of the modules (as the technology is now 'more understood') but on a much smaller level, allowing them to be slightly better than current G5's - worth it for the obsessive, easily ignored for the RP'er/Casual gamer.
This then closes the power gap between non engineered and engineered, makes NPCs slightly less pathetic as they can have guardian upgrades, and generally makes engineering less relatively OP, the way it should have been from the start!
But I may be giving FD too much credit....
@Derp Noodle I haven't been following elite for some time, I gave up hope of bugs being fixed. Did it come true?
@Derp Noodle ah, so I was giving them too much credit. Glad I stopped paying attention...
I think if history has anything to say about the development of engineering is that we "eventually" will get to squeeze juice out of these guardian parts.
When they first came out you could engineer them and they were amazing. Of course like lots of stuff to do with guardians this was an error... Like being able to bypass the puzzle and get all module and vessel blueprints from the ancient site by scanning obelisks (which is why I have over 30 gaurdian blueprints of all types, I only did the puzzle five times...)
I've not looked very hard but the only Guardian thing I've found at all useful so far is the FSD booster now that it's not broken so badly that it tries to eat more than a whole tank of fuel for a jump. As far as I can tell it's basically a free boost to your FSD.
also I find the shield reinforcements useful, flat bonus for ur protective gear.
indeed they are, but they have no counterparts, which is why I din't mention them!
Guardian Shield Reinforcements are great for ramming things to death.
Well the power distributor is better than first glance as it says it increases power of equipped power plant, if you look at the module side of things in your right panel when its equipped it boosts your power output what can allow for more things
You nailed it. I spent time and money to build a fully Guardian-tech'd Challenger (Power plant, PD, all G. reinforcements, with all G5 engineered thrusters, armour, etc.), I wanted it to be my ultimate anti-Xeno ship... and..... it SUCKS! Slow, glass canopy... The caustic resistance is insignificant (not to mention that the point is to AVOID caustic damage). The only thing to do is for FDEVs to give real added value to Guardian combos (BTW, you forgot that PP-PD combo gives a 4% bonus to PP), or, as I did, switch back to a good combat ship, maybe with G. module reinforcements, the only useful module here).
What about guardian shield reinforcement
I just want to add, maybe this isn't true but ever since I started using the guardian power plant instead of an engineers human one I notice it takes way less module damage. Also, and, you should really test this for sure, but it seems resistant to heat damage to an extent. When I'm travelling i'll sometimes hit FSD while still scooping and start to cook myself, then I'll check and everything will be at 96-98% module health but the power plant will be 100%. I'm gonna go to A* soon and will definitely see for myself.
So this vid is a little old, I just basically finished up all bubble engineering, and with the current state of things 1-1-3307 (thargoid attacks) I was gonna unlock guardian stuff. Can I just use AX multi cannons and grade 5 thermal vent beam and call it good? (And flak launcher) Grade 5 heavy duty/deep plate hull etc and go for it?? Skip the guardian grind? It doesn’t sound worth it if I can just engineer my current modules better.
My favorite Latvian dead-horse-beater returns
I'd like to see you do a video on the guardian shield reinforcement. It's a non-SCB optional module that pumps more juice into your shields than a full arrangement of shield boosters. But I wonder how it would compare to a fully engineered shield system. I plan to go out and unlock it soon to try it out.
So early that its only 360p, top tier. I DONT EVEN HAVE NOTIFICATIONS
All you said correctly applies to Goid hunting, with one small correction. The caustic resistance stacks non-linearly, so in most cases its only effective to get one GHRP in the smallest slot you can and fill the rest with G5 Heavy Duty normal ones. This gives much more effective hull than all GHRP setup.
hmmmmmmmm interesting
This is a current consensus we hold in AXI, based on the code i wrote to brute-force all the possible combinations or HRPs/GHRPs. Meta-HRPs dont even enter the equation, they are so bad.
Also thanks for a reply, if you (want to) hunt goids, you may be interested in joining our Anti-Xeno Initiative Discord (discord.gg/gZbAWCF), and maybe even participating in our medusa-instagib events.
The use case conclusion is obvious, Yamiks. They made them just for you! :D
Thanks Yamiks, good to know. Engineering I've found under the new system to be less grindy, I can put things on a list of 'get to it when I can' whereas this garbage requires a dedicated grind session. I find it so offensive, that to get a module blueprint I flew out there, drove around the site once, logged off and got a mustang alpha just so I could look at something that was crappy in a different way.
3:39 I think it also doesn’t make your HUD kill itself when a Thargoid uses its lightning attack.
That's exactly why I never had any interest in those guardian modules, they're weaker than regular ones with some engineering, so why the hell bother with this crap? I agree that at some point they should make it possible to engineer those too, explaining that after some time humanity got such a good understanding of those that they can tinker with them a bit. (Though not good enough to mass-produce them)
You should have said shield booster/fsd booster from guardians some people might find useful but otherwise yeah, video is pretty much spot on.
So basically 2 years later and engineering is STILL god mode....
Guardian power plant also has 105% power, which was missed?
There is only one legit use for Guardian modules - for players who didn't bother with Engineers or dont want to. It's an upgrade in all aspects from the base one and you can buy it directly from the station.
Also, I guarantee next patch we will see Guardian Thrusters and possibly armor/sensors/etc
Only guardian crap I've bothered to unlock is FSD booster, at least that one works alongside engineering upgrades.
I wish the meta alloy hull reinforcement would sacrifice lots of integrity but regenerate health only if the total hill was under a certain percent (say 40%)
I ground out the Guardian stuff when it was 8 and 12 times each to get the blue prints for one item and ended up hating the process after about 50 runs. Reducing the number made sense, but it should have been reduced to 1 for each item. Every guardian item i unlocked I tested then replaced with engineered or experimental weapons and got rid of the guardian parts. I had more fun doing the mining missions to unlock engineers. I feking hate mining.
Well, there is one thing with the Power Plant: it's immune to the shutdown field.
CMDR Kyzrath is it?! Didn't know that
Have anyone made a Guardian built for thargoid hunting? I think they wanted to push this but engineering could be the same.
What an adorable dark comedy both for the modules and the narrative. Good catch, but the problem with engineering is that you have to grind over and over again to engineer a module from level 1 for EVERY new module.
i don't know if it's my rating with the engineer, but i use much less mats to get a much better result now. on paper it looks crap, in practice it's better. EDIT, for instance, grade 1 maxes out with a single roll. grade 2 will often take a single roll sometimes 2. grade 3 will need 3 or 4 rolls to max and so on.
Size 5 fsd booster in a vette is nice for getting places faster. When there swap it out for whatever.
If you could engineer guardian stuff I might actually care enough to get it. As such I will stay with my G5 stuff thanks. Great work my favourite Space Latvian.
You forgot to mention that Power distributor improves PP output, any PP not only Guardian PP
I hate engineering, but it's less of a pain then getting that shit. The only thing I want is the fsd booster, and maybe some AX weapons to actually try and fight a thargoid at least once.
Personally I think many of these other parts would be So much more useful if they could be engineered with a unique caustic resistance. It would really drive home the fact that these upgrades are for fighting thargoids. They’d be weaker against normal ships, perhaps not being able to be engineered with the conventional options, but so what? Nothing wrong with a specialized part, is there?
Wow, good thing you posted this right when I was considering looking into it XD"
What's your opinion on the Guardian Shield Reinforcement?
hmm I quite like the narrative, so i'll prob do the gaurdian stuff just for that.
I rubbed out, er, I mean GRINDED OUT, a few guardian module blueprints after the 3.1 update. But all I bothered unlocking was the FSD booster module. Even that isn't really worth it, in my opinion. I might do a few of the weapons, or just stick with AX weapons for the Thargoids, if I ever feel like fighting them, which I don't.
FDev design philosophy seems to be either "grind the players' faces into this new feature until they hate it, then grind some more," or, "give players no incentives (or give them disincentives) to use this new feature."
Blahdios!
I think they are for people who keeps around and uses a lot of ships. With these modules you only need to unlock them once instead of engineering dozens of ships.
If nothing else they are good for any new ship until you not engineer it. (God bless the bug that gave blueprint fragments for simply scanning obelisks at the launch of 3.0)
I only just came back to playing the game after being away for a few months. I went out to unlock the FSD booster and wrote off everything else. The rest just doesn't look useful.
and it's not....soos yea!
Makes me wonder if this stuff is being designed and implemented by people other than Frontier. People who have never played Elite and only received the numbers of low grade modules as a reference.
I know that's probably not the case, but that's sure as hell what it looks like.
Mostly I agree, I only bother getting the Guardian FSD booster, and probably later the shield reinforcement and Guardian MRP. Really no interest in getting any of the guardian modules which have an engineer-able alternatives.
Guardian modules NEED to gain some sort of synergy bonus. Maybe make the ship overall colder. As it stands without gimballed, huge and energy based guardian weapons ... I'm not fighting Thargoids. Not worth doing either which way.
I'm still waiting on guardian ships to fly. Need to yell at Ram Tah about these Guardian Vessel blueprints.
Frontier devs couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag.
Very much so enjoy your humor 600th like.
Im so early to this video its still in 360P FeelsBadMan...
I 'liked'' it anyway!
Very informative 😍
It's likely that all the parts will be used to make a unique unlockable ship... next year. The ship won't be good - it will just be unique.
Happy yearly (nearly by a day) anniversary of this video. LOL
Idk why there isnt a full guardian ship and a guardian engineer
fsd booster and guardian shield modules ?
5 bucks says you will be able to engineer them later when they release the thargoid reinforcements.. recycled content at it's best and frontier is known for it. Itll be something like that, watch.
I want more of a narrative from Elite :'(
Hey yamiks are you going to test the Guardian FSD booster
no reason to, it works, and adds
1h = 2ly
2h = 4ly
3h = 6ly
4h = 8ly
5h = 10ly (max size class 5)
funny how high quality 360p looks like low quality 720p :)
He's about to add the guardian power distributor, fix the resolution and upload it again any time soon. Anytime... Soon, ish.
....ask that to youtube
TheYamiks the resolution is YT they've been having "trouble" this week. It'll come back. Too funny not to post :)
@TheYamiks Just checked other way to watch, it appears to be a Chrome or browser issue, Mobile apps show at 1080p 60 FYI
They are a waste, unless you are saving engineering parts. As you only have to unlock them once, engineering you have to keep getting the right one for the modules you are currently up grading.
How tf do you get a meta alloy do I really have to make 28 jumps???
NMS Next. Something to check out if u know what i mean ;^)
Yamiks Can you upgrade the video quality as its only on 360p thanks bud
It's Guardian module resolution.
Hey there is room for improvement... more narrative ? At least it'd be a development of sorts...
It does make you wonder what Fdev were thinking when they added these in. I get that for people who don't want to engineer, you have these better modules but seriously, those people are very small in numbers.
What makes you think fd were even thinking at all? If they used their heads the game would so much better than it is right now. And the game wouldn't have the problems it does.
Only useful Guardian module is the fad booster. Otherwise? Another foot shot for the lazy FDev team!
360p master race!
The Guardian FSD Booster is gud. Flying a 60ly jump Dolphin.
Most guardian Stuff is rather 'meh' compared to their engineered counterpart, except the weapons and MRP. Why the MRP? Because its not only just 10% more, but also protects against the HUD puke and module reboots when some Thargoid zaps your sorry ass. Also on the HRP, yeah those kinda such hull wise, but when i go thard hunting i spam those in the tiny slots, as no matter if its a class 1 or 5 its 5%, a bit les cursing while flying to the station because you didnt manage to dodge that caustic anal probe.
The shield booster is great for smaller ships and of course the FSD boost is massive for explorers.
And T9 pilots. Both of those boosters are a huge QOL upgrade for the T9
Baffled.... Pretty good fsd boosters though!
hm so far i use guardian modules only on my trade ship since i dont put much of effort into it its even a upgrade. 20ly type 9 XD
Hey You! Who is really interested to "play" this! I got a job! Don't need a second (your words or...idea). ED is actually a daily boring, not even funny game ! I gave up. For a while! And...my reputation goes down...down...down...because I work for life. Real life...! Give a shit on ED! - Any...of your words, video etc...truth! You are right!
RIP bit late but *expensive
Lol 3% caustic resistance? Bwahahaha. Maybe if it COMPLETELY nulled caustic would it MAYBE be worth it.
Useful for quick-fits but the unlocks pretty much require ~some~ engineering knowledge to even get that far.
Too big a detriment for so small an improvement.
At best s stopgap for people who need a little more but can’t face the engineering RNG timesink.
Guardians lost the fight ages ago. Are these best Guardian Modules ever?
Best use is casual players who don't have time for engeneer grind
As a casual ED player - I don't plan going anywhere near fighting Thargoids, so even less reasons to do guardian stuff. And most engineering to grade 4 is easy and not that grindy at all. It's G5 that gets insane amounts of "quality gameplay" to get.
🏋
Well I'm glad guardian stuff is crap because I don't want to jump through all the hoops necessary to get them. Even the FSD booster I can live without.
The FSD booster is actually really nice. A flat 10ly jump range increase for a class 5 slot.
Okay, cool.. so not worthwhile.. What about the weapons though?