How GOOD was Cherrim ACTUALLY? - History of Cherrim in Competitive Pokemon
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- Cherrim is today’s Pokemon for our competitive history series! Join False Swipe Gaming in this overview of Cherrim in competitive Pokemon!
PATREON!
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FULL RESEARCH SOURCES HERE
docs.google.com/document/d/1T...
The Official False Swipe Gaming Twitter:
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
1:13 - DPP/Gen 4
8:07 - VGC 2010
9:33 - BW/Gen 5
10:46 - XY/Gen 6
11:52 - SM/Gen 7
13:33 - SS/Gen 8
15:40 - Outro
Directed by Kellen
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Follow Me On Twitch!: / kellen_fsg
Written By
Kevin aka BKC
His Channel: / @bkcplayspokemon
This Bread Needs More Jam: / @thisbreadneedsmorejam583
Edited By
Connor Nguyen aka CDK
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VFX Intro By
Ryan Gonzales
ryangonzalesfilmmaker.weebly....
Sound Designed by
Ryan Gonzales
Game Capture Artist:
DarkMusician
Follow Him: / of_darkmusician
Songs Used (List of ALL Songs used for this series. Some may or may not make it into the video):
docs.google.com/document/d/1H...
My Twitter:
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Resources and Historical References
History of Rule Variants: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wik...
Smogon University:
www.smogon.com/
Maikiri
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Aaron Cybertron Zheng:
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Pokeaim
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Pokemon Battle Historia:
pokemon.s20.xrea.com/
Nintendo Cup 2000 Team Construction:
pokemon.s20.xrea.com/2nd/const...
Nintendo Cup 2000 Tier List:
pokemon.s20.xrea.com/2nd/2000/
Pokemon Japanese Battle Wiki:
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Sprites From:
www.spriters-resource.com/
pldh.net/dex/sprites/index 
Игры
10:56 Correction: Petal Blizzard isn’t an Outrage clone, it’s just a 90 bp physical move with no other effect. It’s Petal Dance that’s an Outrage “clone”, which was introduced before Outrage and was eventually buffed to have 120 bp in gen 5.
Petal Blizzard hits both enemies and allies
FSG getting minor details wrong? Must be a day ending in y.
I keep forgetting Petal Dance has been on the game since Gen 1
Not special? Damn I need to pay more attention
I always thought Thrash was the original move, for some reason...
Cherrim: The friend Groudon never knew he had.
Savage, ty
Ahhh, what a good year of VGC that was.
Omg you just reminded me
We’re about to get Groudon
We have the best Sun user in history in Walking Wake
And there’s also Koraidon
Sun is gonna be the best it’s ever been in Ubers
Yah ninetails was also really good along side Cherrim if u guys could get gravity up and baton pass into cherrim max stats then have ninetails use psych up u guys can actually both put everyone to sleep turn 1 with hypnosis and grass whistles then basically kill everything with flare blitz or flame charge on ninetails
Not to mention Primal Groudon that gets Fire STAB on top!
Perhaps giving the pure Grass-type Pokémon that’s wholly reliant on sun to showcase its full potential a barren movepool and mid stats wasn’t the best idea.
It’s an example of being a Grass type with a shallow movepool. As Pokémon of that type tend to be notable for that. As they usually have STABs + Normal or Poison/Pollen Puff.
megainum crying in the corner
at he's not alone anymore
@@powcow60floordayboi16
Meganium can use its bulk for some nasty Counter strats or Overgrow to fire off a really strong Giga Drain. If only Cherrim could do the same without Sun...
Give it an evolution. 450 BST gives it 60 - 80 BST points to work with. +20 speed, +20 SpA, +20 Attack, and +20 HP would work wonders.
B-but what about charizard? Isn't it about time we have him another mega evolution, we should just slap flower gift on that mega.
I'd be down to see a "How GOOD was" series for competitive battle items. Would be interesting to see the impact of them.
bkc does this kinda
They would need an entire trilogy of movies for leftovers lol
id be curious to see how i think its light orb was for competitive if at all.
I reeally wanna see more "how Good was" for whole types. They did ice-type a while ago but no other ones.
@@Seetiyan Thought for sure we'd get more of those
I remember using Cherrim for laughs in a Platinum Run once and I remember facing down Wake's Gyarados with it. Blasted it with Two Solar Beams and won.
Cherrim became one of my favorite Grass-Types since. Gotta love the underdogs.
It became my least favorite when I had to find it in legends arceus before the patch where they made it findable in the wild
@@fin5887
And god forbid you find one good luck catching it
This is why I strive to use a new pokemon in Every Playthrough, had a similar situation with Lilligant, never gave it the light of day till a recent BW replay when Own Tempo Petal Dance Lilligant solo'ing Ghetsis' entire team made it another one of my favorites from Gen 5.
The idea of that is just too funny...
Ghetsis: I Will Rule The World! ALL HAIL GHETSIS, ALL HAIL GHET- Ow, Ow, Ow, Ow, Ow!
Flower Lady: Eww I think I stepped in something... *continues dancing*
Ghetsis: AAHHHWW! AAAHHHWW!
Who else remembers Wolfey using Cherrim in VGC and the hype moment where he OHKOd Kyogre with Solar Blade? That was probably the highlight of poor Cherrim’s life
So sad it was maybe his worst matchup. Man ran circles around his opponent with positioning but it just didn't matter. Could've made it further in with it
I came here looking for this comment
A cherry blossom and a discarded cicada exoskeleton have both fell the god of the sea.
I don't think Cherrim minds being bad (atleast when it's in the sun). Just look at him, he's just happy to be here.
...And Whimsicott had a similar smile and became a sadist... i think its for the best Cherrim is just a silly lil guy
Cherrim and Stonjourner exist for the sake of other Pokémon, Tatsugiri and Dodonzo for each other, and I have yet to meet someone who used Plusle and Minun.
I loved Plusle in storymode, but I can't say I use it much outside of that.
Honestly a good buff for Cherrim is to change flower gift to boost 2 of its highest stat by 1.5.
Edit: I hate doing these edits but anyway, I have forgot abt PLA, hell I dont know how it works in PLA. But yeah, sry abt it :P
Hell, change it to an omniboost. It's weak enough that that wouldn't be broken.
@@bootlegdouglas it also buffs its allies too.
@Matthew Griffin perfect
@@Firesnake905 wcgw with having a pokemon be able to turn any pokemon into dondozo in sun?
"Better buff"
That implies it was buffed at all
The PLA re-work is actually an overall nerf
(Main Series Overcast has MAX 240 Atk
PLA Overcast has MAX 249 Atk
PLA Sunshine has MAX 333 Atk
Main Series Sunshine has MAX 360 Atk)
"Some people just hate good ideas, and those people often tend to be in charge"
I know that Cherrim isn't good competitively, but I love the design and ideas behind it.
Not every pokemon needs to be good competitively
@@YOSSARIAN313I do agree, but it could have had more boosts to it considering it is notable for that ability.
It did alright in Double Battles for few gens. But other than that, yeah. This is another one of those despicable mono Grass Pokemon.
@@YOSSARIAN313 But they don't also need to screw over the ones that would be mediocre at best
Correction for the gen 6 analysis: Petal Blizzard isn't a gen 3 Outrage clone at all! It's actually a Surf clone, dealing damage to all adjacent mons without locking in the user at all.
It does confuse people who don't use it into thinking it's a physical Petal Dance.
It's also physical.
@@maninthetrenchcoat5603 It is indeed! I thought I implied that, but I suppose I didn't outright state it, so it's good that you mention it.
yeah, petal dance is the outrage clone. although it actually came before outrage as it was vileplume's signature move in gen 1.
@@gregorymirabella1423 And since Petal Dance is on topic now, that actually had a measly 70 base power to go with being a lock-in move until gen 4, when it got buffed to 90. It took until gen 5 for it to get to 120.
To really put into perspective how bad this was, Razor Leaf in gen 1 (which Vileplume didn't get) was nearly guaranteed to crit, giving it an effective 110 base power before factoring in STAB, with the only real drawback being the 95 accuracy (which still hits much more often than not anyway).
If you do the maths, that means:
Even if a gen 1 Razor Leaf user didn't get STAB, the move would still have a higher effective base power than a STAB Petal Dance.
Cherrim should’ve had the buff from legends arceus from day 1.
What buff?
@@marcelosandoval8719 being impossible to catch.
What was its legends arceus buff?
Cherrim's increased Base Stats in Sunshine Form in PLA are actually a nerf compared to main series games
Main Series Cherrim
Atk = Base 60
Actual Atk Stat minimum = 112
Maximum = 240
In Sun
Atk
112 × 1.5 = 168
240 × 1.5 = 360
PLA Cherrim
Base Atk = 60
Actual Atk = 148 -- 249
In Sun
Base Atk --> 90
Actual Atk = 202 -- 333
333 is less than 360
With Neutral Nature
328 for Main Series
315 for PLA
Same thing happens with Sp.Def
Should have been put in a smoothie day 1
Cherrim will remain the best pokemon in my heart, just look at that little ball of happiness dancing, such a cutie.
The fact that this thing won worlds is crazy
Back when I was like 12 I did a papercraft from paperpoke of Cherrim, and gave it to my mom as a gift.
She really liked it, and still has it to this day.
That's pretty much why Cherrim is one of my favorite Plant types, thanks for this episode
Lol, the fact that a RUclips ad dropped just as you were saying "That's it, that's the video. Goodnight!" just made that moment even funnier 🤣
Can't wait for paradox cherrim.
Feral flower, a grass fire type that sets up sun and grassy terrain with its new ability frenzy field. It also gives all its stats a booster energy boosts.
I like how not every Pokémon is incredible, some are just more suited to being pets or companions
It does make me happy when these pokemon do actually get some time in the sun. Something about seeing a small pokemon with bad base stats hold their own within the realm of monsters, even if it's just on a few occasions is just so fun to see.
@@determineddaaf3 Agreed tbh, it feels nice to see them succeed
This is my first time seeing Cherrim in 3d, omg it's so energetic and happy. It has such a simple design but it's adorable. I think it should just straight up buff Atk, SpAtk, and SpDef to better round it out on the stat it's always been wanting. Also it would be nice for Torkoal and Nintetales as well as partners. I doubt it would be that gamebreaking for it to be able to hit a little harder.
If nothing else, Cherrim is in my top 5 cutest pokemon
I LOVE this Pokemon. Cherrim / Leafeon was the core that carried me to top 500 in SW/SH for like 5 minutes.
YES! AS A CHERRIM ENTHUSIAST I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!
This is your moment. You'll never have it again
I loved using Cherrium in gen 8, my favorite Pokémon in VGC. Love how Wolf was the one to unlock its potential with Solar Blade and Groudon, slapping Zacian.
One of the Pokemon of all time
What a fun Pokemon 😊. I sure hope it doesn't cause an infinite animation when played in a glitch weather condition causing it to be banned
it wasn't banned.
Hey I think you made a mistake in the video when you got to gen 6. You refer to Petal Blizzard as an Outrage clone with 90 base power, but Petal Blizzard is just a 90 base power physical grass move with no additional effect. Petal Dance is the Outrage clone and Cherrim has actually had it from the beginning. Now Petal Dance actually did use to have 90 base power, but was buffed to match Outrage's 120 in gen 5
Petal blizzard technically hits all other pokemon on the field so it does have an additional effect
petal dance was added in gen 1, outrage wasn't until gen 2
@@TheGhostFart Yeah I know, Outrage is actually a Petal Dance/Thrash clone not the other way around, but my explanation was already wordy enough so I just left it as "outrage clone" because that's the term used in the video
Actually Cherrim has had a slight buff. As of Legends Arceus, its base Attack stat now sits at 90. While not incredible by any means on its own, in the sun with a boosting nature it has an effective Attack stat higher than Rayquaza (max Adamant hits 459 at +1, Ray sits at 438).
Probably still won't take it out of Untiered, but hey, when your history is as bad as Cherrim's, you take what you can get.
I’m pretty sure that’s a buff exclusively for the Sunshine Form to compensate for Flower Gift not being in the game. It’ll probably be reverted when it comes back.
@@DumpsterFire22
Not only that but there's no moves nor abilities in PLA to change weather.
it unfortunately only has the base stat boosts without the flower gift boosts in that game, so it was actually nerfed.
Cherubi and Cherrim might actually be the earliest Pokémon that I tend to just forget even exist. Like I've long since been unable to memorize the numerical order of every Pokémon, but there aren't really that many that show up and I'm like "oh yeah, I forgot this existed". But this is definitely one of them. Has it even been in a game since its debut generation?
Think it was in 1 of the gen 5 games?
Imagine it became a grass/fire pokemon in the sun and its stats got swapped around similar to those of Aegislash, turning it into a speedy, special attacker. Sometimes, the creative possibilities game freak misses out on are truly frustrating.
I think forms were new when Cherrim was released so Cherrim changing forms at all was the gimmick. I don't think forms had stat differences until later.
@uberculex nah Rotom which was released in the same gen had the appliance forms and those have different stats compared to base rotom
@@carlosx8603 Also, I forgot about Giratina so I was just wrong.
It literally could've been so much better if Game Freak made Flower Gift boost the correct stat, or just made it more of a physical attacker.
Though dangit it looks so cute, look at that little smile on the Sunshine form
it may be trash tier competitively but it is OU/Ubers for inducing smiles in people
I feel like with how Flower Gift works, they meant to have its attack and special attack swapped. It doesn't make much sense otherwise.
Flower Gift is _entirely_ a VGC centered ability. They wanted Cherrim to just be a support mon, which is why it buffs the weaker of its attack stats.
Too bad it took four gens for it to even get good support moves.
Since we're doing a trashy Honey Tree Pokémon now, maybe we could get the odd yet unfortunate Wormadam for our next FSG assessment.
Gotta love Trash Wormadam
@@HazeEmry used one on my Pokémon Y playthrough. Microplastic was a very good girl.
I keep thinking just should try a challenge run with all the burmy evos
We need Ambipom
@@AwakeningShadows we already got it and it suffered heavily from being so popular goddammit
Well that did significantly better than I expected. I did not think Cherrim would ever be anywhere near winning worlds, let alone having WON IT!
The first video in the new scheduled upload time!!
Time to change the habit to watch FSG’s new video on Sunday to Friday
I think it's worth noting that Cherrim gets a pretty major stat buff from sunshine in Legends Arceus, which might carry over into gen 9 when (or if) Cherrim's released.
I think Game Freak accidentally made Flower Gift increase Attack when they meant to increase Sp. Atk and couldn’t be bothered to change it back
@Blue Aizu
The Nidoqueen thing is intentional, weirdly enough. In a recently translated Pokémon book from the Gen 1 days, it was already stated that Nidoqueen is unable to breed prior to the introduction of the mechanic. Don't think a proper reason was ever given though, so it can probably be chalked up to a weird Japanese Christmas Cake thing.
I remember that Cherrim got a stat boost in Pokemon Legends Arceus that, accommodating for that game's lack of abilities, increased its Attack and Special Defense while it was sunny.
Man, wouldn't it be cool if that sort of boost could apply to Cherrim the next time it appears? Like, something, anything?
The bst boost is only there to compensate the lack of abilities. Also, this stat increase is somehow weaker than the boost provided by the ability. And Cherubi (hahahahaha) on the top, there's no move nor abilities to control weather and the weather is entirely dynamic so good luck when it starts raining.
cherrim is my all-time-favorite pokémon bc back when d&p were first announced they released promo art for 3 pokemon; pachirisu, skorupi & cherrim (sunshine form) and i haven't wavered since. thank you for this video. cherrim deserved some shine(pun intended).
I've been waiting years to share this information but Cherrim was on the final bosses team in Pokemon Battle Revolution. If you look up Mysterial’s Masters Team you'll see it there alongside Groudon.
10:01 to 10:11 you can feel the pain being expressed from the depths of FSG's soul.
Already know this is going to be an amazing video!
Can’t believe the constant flow this week, been making it so much nicer
Not the "Don't use cherrim" set... 😭
Cherrim is one of my favorite pokemon so thank you for this video!
Petal Blizzard doesn't actually lock into into using the move.
You're thinking of Petal Dance.
Love the random and welcoming video. Keep up the great videos
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
One of my faves, such a clever concept. Used it in my last playthrough of SwSh, alongside Torkoal!
Petal Blizzard wasnt an outrage clone that was Petal Dance, Petal Blizzard was more like Earthquake in hitting all pokemon.
cherrim was my absolute favorite pokemon as a kid. seeing it finally get some sort of recognition puts a big smile on my face :')
The twist in the middle of the video made me smile, that was beautiful.
Finally talking about my all time favorite Pokemon thank you guys
Isn't Petal Blizzard just a physical grass-surf? It's not Petal Dance and not close to Outrage
You know a mon’s had it rough when Kellen doesn’t ask at the end “How would you buff x?” That ending was a plea for help. A cry for an imaginative substitute of reality, where Cherrim was at least usable in any tier.
A 17 min rant. Didn't expected that. But I dig it. Satire honesty :D
Love videos about pokemon I don't often think about. Bronzong next perhaps?
Been waiting for this one.
Oh snap. I forgot you did that poll to upload on Fridays now, I was confused for a second.
I forgot that uploads could happen on Friday but I can't complain FSG content is still great
“That’s it, that’s the video. Goodnight” followed by an instant ad…
Well played
Getting a 17 minute video AND it features Gen 4 VGC??? Cherrim is really full of surprises
15 out of those 17 minutes is just verbally abusing cherrim though
Great video as always. I really liked the top 5 most op pokemon in singles, so I think the top 5 worst pokemon in singles would be great.
I do not think I've heard Kellen this mad in the four years I've watched this channel
Fun enough, Cherrim is good in Pokémon Go’s battle meta too. Although not as common as other Pokémon, Cherrim is primarily used in Great League by being a heavy fast attacker along with pulling out spam charge moves using seed bomb and surprising foes with Weather Ball fire.
I adore chrerrim so adorable, and when i first seen its form change in action i fully though it was an evolution in mid battle it blew my mind as a kid.
I Love Surprise FALSE SWIPE Drops Bro
I was today years old when I found out the lines on its bottom half in its Closed Form are its eyes.
It's Jirachi's chest eye all over again.
Isn't Petal Blizzard that 90 bp physical grass spread move, without locking in or other downsides? Did you mean Petal Dance?
Flower gift should boost the higher of att/spa and def/spdef for each pokemon. It should also automatically set up sunny day if cherrin has the move learned.
I remember in high school I’d run a meme set on Showdown where I had a Cherrim and Primal Groudon in Doubles. Every time a Kyogre would appear I’d lose, since I only had those two, but it was still really fun.
I think I named the Groudon Jimmy Dean? For some reason?
a double ad started playing at 3:00 and i genuinely thought the video was gonna end as a gag
I just realized what day it is. Nice.
Very nice
I'd like to see some videos on Pokémon type combos which were recently added in Scarlet & Violet; e.g. Lokix (bug/dark), Grafaiai (poison/normal), Revavroom (steel/poison) etc.
Also a video on how Chien-Pao has become a superior dark/ice slot compared to Weavile
Well, weavile lost knock off, it's main utility move which was also it's preferred stab, Chien- Pao on the other hand has the same movepool plus crunch (way better stab) and a better ability.
I enjoy a lot the type combo Revavroom has, by sure 4x ground weakness is harsh but it's only weak to fire beyond that and has a lot of resistances, also both stabs of revavroom are x2 against fairy so you can not run a poison stab and choose a steel stab plus coverage moves.
I think we have to wait for the new Gen 9 Pokémon for at least 5 more months. Expect those who are cross evolutions/regional forms of Pokemon not done yet such as Lilligant, Braviary, and Avalugg.
those aren't real pokemon
@@shattermelon496 yes they are.
@shattermelon
They're real
You literally could have looked them up
That was all you needed to do
You didn't even do the bare minimum of fact-checking yourself before making an objectively false statement
Let this be a learning lesson
Cherrim is the strongest pokemon, he lived though all that and it still gives the biggest smile whenever the weather is nice.
The IASIP reference was awesome
Honestly, a lot of Cherrim's problems can be solved by either buffing it's Attack and shuffling its movepool or reworking Flower Gift to have it strictly boost both Special stats. And why not, throw in Quiver Dance, it's already in the pits, might as well make it Volcarona-tier terrifying in those pits.
One might say Kellen gave this flower a gift by shining a light on its unviability 😏
Looking forward to see the competitive history of sazzle
Imagine how terrifying it would be in Doubles if Cherrim's Flower Gift boosted Special Attack and Speed lol
I remember in White I was trying to catch a female combee and found a shiny one of this thing
Ah yes my childhood fav pokemon that i still hold dear today.
I remember when i played platinum with an action replay and i was fighting gardenia, but because i was a dumb kid, i just had all three starters at like level 5 or smth. Cherrim would always wipe the floor with me after i took out the budew.
It took so many tries but somehow i managed to take out the cherrim! Proud moment in gaming for me. Never got past the roserade tho.
Didn’t know about the infinite transformation loop. That made me lol
Hell yeah, Fridays just got a little better bois
Looks like it’s Friday uploads!
16:02 "Purposeful streak of brutality" is such a raw line omg.
You should do a channel where you show how a centrain gun performed through out time, like the M1911, M16 or AK-47.
Give it 2 evolutions, one based on each form
- no sun form gains either dark or ghost type and maybe an ability focused on draining moves? I dunno, the flavor is that it needs to drain stuff as a parasite without the sun
-sunny form gains the fairy or fire type, drought and friend guard as abilities and an insane doubles support move pool. I'm talking fake out, helping hand, u turn, maybe even some redirection
for cherrim each developer had a task, one in charge of the ability, other in the stats and the last one in the movepool
the 3 devs said "each one does their parts separately and then we combine everything togheter"
An example of being a Grass type as it lacks many coverage moves.
I'm surprised kellen didn't make a joke video in which cherrim crushed the uber tier like he did with Ledian
Because Cherrim has at least had SOME success.
If Leafeon is the poor man's Venusaur, then Cherrim is the homeless man's Leafeon.
2:56 “That’s it! That’s the video, good night!” _ad pops up!_
Not sure if this was intentional or not but as soon as you said "that's the video good night" I got an ad and thought the video was actually over
Such an interesting design
I always liked Cherrim and wanted to use it in playthrough teams of gen 4, but I could never manage to find the dang thing on honey trees even if I did remember to go back and check them. It's design is absolutely adorable and I was really pleasantly surprised to see it had some use in doubles! Honestly, I think at this point it just needs a full on evolution. It evolves at level 25, that's plenty reasonable. Have it's evolution put it in something akin to its sunshine form permanently, double it's attack stat, buff its speed and special defense (and physical defense too, just a little), and give it drought with the benefits of flower gift.
It would be more interesting if Flower Gift functioned like Pure Power and Ice Scales and doubled its actual attack and sp.def in the Sun. The doubles function could remain as is. It would still be worthless outside of the sun but would be a powerful sun sweeper.
I've theorized a doubles Cherrim Groudon team and absolutely love it... I've never used it but still. Speaking of, Koraidon is a physical sun setter 👀👀👀
!!!! One of my Top Favorite Pokémon!!! Yessss
Love Cherrim, such a shame that a super cute and happy Pokémon like that is so weak, so here is my dream Cherrim Buff :
-Make it a potential glass cannon. I mean, its defenses are alredy low, so just boost its Att, Sp. Att and Speed stats to acceptable levels
-Make Flower Gift a guaranted Quiver Dance in the sun. I mean why not, it's not like it will be broken even with it, there are plenty of broken abilities on already strong mons (Looking at you Garganacl) and it fits with its always moving personality, so yeah
-Give it a dual type under the Sun, like how Zen Mode Darmanitan gains Psychic type. Fairy or Fire is fine, just something
And boom there you have it, an actually usable, but probably not broken Cherrim. Anyway great vid, litterally dropped everything to watch this because I love this little flower cutie lol
Jack and “s**t” are great buffs
Wondering if there would ever be an episode on Bronzong. Curious to know how it did competitively, especially when compared to Metagross.
Bronzong is unique for several factors; a Steel type immune to Ground due to Levitate and also having Heatproof, making its Fire weakness a neutrality.
That video’s been on the back burner for so long.