DCS: Bf-109 k4 Vs P-51 Mustang Western Front World War 2 Dogfight
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In a classic Match up today, we are pitching the German bf-109 against the American P-51 Mustang in one of the most iconic duels of the western front during world war 2. This turns into a really long and drawn out fight as both aircraft fight for the advantage over the other one in a crazy dogfight. Let me know if you guys would like to see more World war 2 content on the channel guys thanks for tuning in and hope you're all staying safe during COVID-19.
let me know what you guys think about some more world war 2 content on the channel thanks for watching guys and take care.
Absolutely!! Love the world war II content, excellent job both flying and content. Keep up the GREAT work. Excellent channel
yes please... more more more.. 👍👍
.. hey GS.. when it's all said and done with these awsome videos you put out with DCS... do you have time to play any other games like IL-2? it looks like a really good Sim too..
Very nice and very interesting to see how the same principles in dog fighting play out with very different airplanes. More of these is very welcome!
More ww2. You do a great job
Edit: il-2 great battles is better though
I loved watching the warbirds
Meanwhile in War Thunder:
*Wingtip touches grass blade*
Entire wing: aight im bout to head out
While in test flight(arcade mode), another nations Bf-109 I flew at high speed(maybe not), and my left(?) wingtip broke because I was flying to low. Then I decided to *destroy* the other one because in my mind was if I manage to take the other one out, I can speed this girl like normal. And I did it, and she speed as usual but accelerate 'faster'. I only can use the Rudder to roll the plane and the Elevator to direct it. And I manage to land her after some flight.
@@easthulk99 that happened with the MiG-17 a long time ago too. Apparently it's a flight model glitch. Sounds about right for gaijin
U mean missile thunder?
Meanwhile in DCS we have the planes flying right thru power lines with no consequence. Will the balance ever be found? 😂
You mean Aircraft Demolition Derby? Too many fuckwits in AB and some in RB who use low rank planes as battering rams. Jesus Christ.
Imagine being over France with bombers all around you, tracer fire going everywhere, and you're in a dog fight like this. Those guys were fucking insane.
SullyC yah they were pretty ballsy guys I can't imagine that shit.
@@CameTo They WERE different people in a different world.
Try getting people today to do ANYTHING.
Those guys have balls of steel
True true, but think about a slow moving A10 dropping into an active war zone with radar cued AAA and manpads all over. They stay on station in highly contested environments and fly straight on into oncoming fire. Wash rinse repeat. All I’m saying is pilots are a different breed. And every era’s extraordinary combat theaters reflect that.
@@mofosamo Literally true.
I bet your thumb was looking for the flare button as you finished the kill.
Dennis Sampson lold
‘How did none of those shells hit him?’ War thunder all day
Those mg-108s man
@@Kay_213_ mk108s
@__ I know, I just corrected the ost above me which said MG108s
@__ you can replace that with mg151 in WT
@__ you get 200 rounds of ammo than so you can spray a bit
Judging by where the 3 30 mm shells hit the P-51D, I think they may have gone through the canopy , killing the pilot causing the aircraft to stall and crash. and please do more of these videos please!!
@En Sabah Nur war thunder has that, its pretty cool.
if you look closely at 10:51 you can see the canopy fall off the plane
Jacob Thornton I think you're correct mate, pilot killed by 30mm shell to the back of the head seems accurate
High explosive shells of Mk-108 is quite potent as it's explosive filler is nearly as powerful as a grenade. A couple hits on a fighter plane is an almost guaranteed kill or renders aircraft inoperable for certain if it somehow survives those.
@Southern Fun There are well written reports of effects about Mk-108 MinenGeschoß shells. If you think a delicate vehicle such as airplanes can withstand multiple grenade level explosions (with the exception of bigger aircrafts with multiple engines and stuff) I don't know what to say. There were even a couple of testing footage from ww2 about that gun on RUclips too. Those shells don't penetrate deep, yes. But who needs penetration when the explosion upon contact breaks the target apart or shatter it's wings etc.
Real drawbacks of MK-108 in a dogfight is it's absolutely terrible muzzle velocity against fighter aircrafts and it's low ammo count. You need to be either really good with your deflection shots against small sized, fast targets or you have to be really close to increase chances of hitting them. Bombers were a sitting duck and this gun was invented to deal with them, not the fighters. That's the real problem.
I can’t be happier with this. Hope DCS can push some more WW2 modules, I have a feeling the new damage models are gonna be awesome.
Blair S. Im really hoping the new damage models are amazing too they are due for some upgrading for sure
They are working on a P-47 module, and the Mosquito. I would love to see the P-38 Lightning and some planes from the Pacific like the Zero, Corsair and Hellcat.
@@wild_lee_coyote damn straight bro that'd be awesome!!
There is one famous example of the P-51 going to the vertical against a 109, and that was Bud Anderson. He was in a B, and the 109 was way earlier than the the K4. The 109 was below him and stalls first allowing Anderson to wing over and fall right behind him. The famous footage of that kill is the 109 diving into the ground meeting its own shadow.
Noticed the Pony stalled before you did every time in the vertical. You also ended up on his tail every time because you were able to power through the Pony’s stall altitude altitude, leaving you on top. Older 109’s couldn’t do that. Taking the K4 to the vertical is a futile move.
The Pony driver did a great job evading as long as he did!
The top speed of a P51 was 437 MPH
The top speed of a BF109 was 350 MPH
P51 Ceiling was 42,000
BF109 Ceiling was 36,000 feet
I've never heard of a P51 Pilot having a hard time shaking a BF109 pilot at the end of the war!
@@DurdenTyler21 The K4 was a whole new animal. The thing is, there wasn’t many of them. In DCS or IL2, the virtual sky is full of them. :-)
@@vidar7106 HAHA my dumbass didn't even notice the "K4" in the title...
Whoooops
@@DurdenTyler21 The always quoted performance of the 109K4 is not only entirely theoretical (which is frankly not the problem, because the Germans were good at that, except for the matter that the engine and airframe were idealized), it's also incomplete. It's computed for a closed radiator (German cooling solutions normally had a high drag penalty, and that is certainly very true for the 109), and it also assumes compressibility doesn't exist, not even very locally around the canopy. Also, an entirely different thing, common for all 109G and K, is that it's ailerons didn't respond well (or at all) at high speeds (which made diving a suicidal disengage tactic against American fighters).
German WW2 pilots didn't have it quite as comfortable as simulator pilots 75 years later.
DurdenTyler21's figures are representative for a 109 without boost active. The P-51's maximum cruise speed was almost as high as the 109's maximum speed.
The only thing that eventually made the German fighters competitive was their various boosts, normally methanol & water. And that was a very limited resource or they'd ruin their engines.
The sometimes expressed (but not popular, and often elaborately denied) assumption that German fighter pilots were much better, is absolutely true, at least early on, before they ran out of the experienced ones. What made it an even contest was that the Americans had superior equipment.
To Fly and Fight was the book I think where he recounts that extended battle with a 109. But, as others have noted, it was not a K4 he was fighting.
Second time I've watched this. Can you imagine a movie scene of that shootdown from a ground camera a few feet from where the 109s wing zips through the shallow snow? "SSHHHHIIINGGG!" And dead brown grass and snow crystals catching the sun as little rainbow circles float down through the air? Instant top 10 is what that is.
That movie with a scene like that would win some awards I think
Loving the WW2/Early jet stuff.
Going Mach 2 and shooting aim 120s from 30 km away is fun and all but we needed some change.
no idea 100% agreed probably gonna do more of this in the future thanks for the feedback
Just a tip from a K4 jockey. If you have your MW250 available. Once you get a Mustang in a Co-Energy state. You can win the vertical fight. The K4 spiral climb is lethal. That being said you did well.
Posadist Pacman thanks man, I'll remember that tip. See if I can put it to use somewhere down the road.
Agreed 1000%!
100% would like to see a Vought F4U Corsair vs a Mitsubishi A6M Zero.
The F4U would just run all the time, since in a 1v1 it can’t get behind a zero
@@ferrarisuper The Zero has less visibility and service altitude compared to the Corsair. The Corsair is more likely to attack first and be unseen while also being able to out climb it.
@@sethjansson5652 the Corsair has an higher service altitude only if it uses the engine with the supercharger gears for high altitude, but since in the Sea fighters needs to stay at low altitude because they need to prevent attack aircraft from destroying ships the F4U used the low altitude supercharger gears, and his service altitude was about the same of the Zero. The visibility are on par and the Corsair out climbs the zero only at speeds above 290km/h (which is generally the most efficient climb speed). In a proper 1v1 (fighters start in the same altitude) it's a draw. If the Corsair will win, if the Zero start's higher it wins only if the pilot is good at shooting at long distances. In a 2v2 the zero has no chance. Faster aircrafts with better Energy retention and better medium speed climb can do an easy bait and switch tactic and kill any turn fighter
@@Youda00008 Can't kill it if you can't reach it.
U.S. Navy fighter doctrine for fighting against the Japanese, during WWII:
Don't let the opponent coax you into a turnfight. If the opponent is on your "6", snap roll and dive to the right. The Zero cannot follow a Hellcat (or Corsair) in a right hand turn and dive; they can't move the controls fast enough.
DCS doesn't have either aircraft in any circumstance.
HI GS, I am pleased that you are including WW2 aircraft in your H2H series. Very enjoyable and informative. Keep up the great work!
Zack Benson thanks Zack appreciate the feedback man
I'm impressed by your drawing skill.
That sure look like a tree!
Paul Ahaha I was once known as the DaVinci of DCS with my superior tree drawing abilities I'm glad you appreciate skill where you see it.
Bob Ross man! Get sone happy little trees.
I never really cared for the WWII aircraft they have. But you made this pretty damn entertaining. Great video as always!
N942UW thanks man, I appreciate you tuning in. Thanks for the feedback
I feel the same way I am a real pilot and the techniques used to takeoff & land are NOT representative of real taildragger aircraft. Harder IS NOT ALWAYS MORE REALISTIC! I mean have these guys even ever flown a plane before? They aren't the bad when they get off the ground but flat out monsters on the ground. What a shame such potential.
Around the 21:40 mark you could honestly probably have just reduced the throttles, lagged him a bit and then rated him on the deck. The P-51 I believe has quite a bit higher stall speed due to the wing design and lack of leading edge slats. Since you've also got a lot more power, you could engage and disengage at will.
I think the problem here was that you were overly cautious and didn't really appreciate the extent of the K4's performance advantage.
@@stephenfowler4115 dive speed don't do diddly squat when you're already on the deck.
migkillerphantom or I'm just shit in the plane 😂 I'll work on it tho thanks for the tips boss I'll put them to good use.
I'm amazed you hit with the cannon. It's great against bombers and ground targets, but it fires slow rounds way below the center of the gunsight and has no tracers, so hitting a maneuvering target is extremely difficult. At least it is for me. Hits like a beast when it does hit though.
Eric Schori I didn't know it hits below the gun sight that explains many things lol
@@GrowlingSidewinder Yeah, at least 1 tick mark below the machine guns, more if you're not really close or if you're turning. I learned this by repeatedly emptying the cannon at AI B-17's in straight and level flight without scoring a single hit.
The MK 108 30 mil has a muzzle velocity of only 600m/s, but it has thin walls so it’s packed with explosives, I’m curious can you take the 20 mil nose cannon the K-4 had as well? The 20 mil would have higher muzzle velocity and some tracers but idk if it’s in DCS
Really like the confident informative dialogue explaining what’s happening. There doesn’t seem to be any stratospheric ego anywhere.
That was quite a graceful kill with your ground kiss
I think the ground kiss would have had a catastrophic result in real life so everything that happened after that is hypothetical. Still liked the video, love the WWII content.
I know it was only a small part of the video, but the part where you talked about what real WW2 vets said was awesome. I don't really enjoy flying the warbirds myself, but I love the WW2 content, so any piece of input from the guys who had to fly these things is truly amazing by my standards - especially when it works in DCS XD
@Growling Sidewinder
Thankyou for all of your WW2 era content. I have all but the Russian bird and the Jug, and have been practicing, practicing, practicing! Your commentary’s have helped me align my priorities in regards to making the best use of each aircraft. Just watching how your engagements change based on adversary has shown me their flight characteristics.
Keep up all the good work!!!
Thanks man glad you find the videos helpful thank you for the comment
A beautiful fight. I can't remember seeing such grace and elegance in Air Combat.
I enjoyed this video quite a bit. The K-4 and P-51 are closely matched (depending on the altitude of the engagement). Both you and Feisty did a great job. Thanks!. Incoming email.
@@corvus8752 I do like this kind of stuff :)
I love how good the physics are in this game. Most "flight simulators" dont
"Its turning capability" Have you ever flown the spit? Makes the turns of the kurfürst look like the ones from a mig 25. Please more Warbird action, these dogfights are a lot more representative of a " real world" outcome of a engagement of the two aircraft, as the fight would actually happen more or less that way. (Not like if two modern jets met each other, this would mostly be BVR or a missile fight)
Keep up the amazing work with your videos and stay healthy!
my 109 bias >:(
It’s not how it would’ve ended DCS didn’t model the p 51 historically or accurately. It’s running at 67” HGs When in REAL life WW2 it ran 72-80”hgs. It’s a trend amongs the so called “realistic sims” to put allied planes at a unrealistic disadvantage. And german planes to a unrealistic advantage when most german planes were rated at lower power settings then the ones in game.
Dub Dots Oh puh-lease the P51 was slower than the K at almost every altitude, it climbed slower and performed poorly at supercharger transition altitudes
MW50 destroys any of your WW2 P51s
@@BARelement this is simply not always true........
Pseudonyme Not even truthful. Can only use mw50 for 5 mins or so. Plus did you even read test reports on the “DB 605DC”? I doubt your stupid self even knows what engine it had lmao.! A DB 605DC running into 1.98 ata would DESTORY the engine before it can even get guns remotely on target :}. But ofc you neo Nazis like to lie about performance, and reality, also denying what happened in WW2.
447mph (bf 109s at engine killing power settings that would destroy the engine before it even got to 6km alt) isn’t faster than 448-452mph (mustang at realistic engine power settings 75”-81” hg) sorry bud reality is reality. This isn’t fantasy where what you say is automatically fact because you say so.
Im very honored to say that i have met wwII fighter pilots from both sides. One of em is Thorstein Jonsson (Icelandic RAF, Spitfire and Mustang) and the other one is Günther Rall. (Luftwaffe General with third-highest-scoring fighter ace of ALL time with 270 confirm kills). Now i only had a 4-5 min to talk to mr. Rall and shake his hand but they both where agree on that the P-51 was much better dogfighter than the 109, but the 109 still had that climb
superior over any other airplane. But along came the P-51D, and the rest is history.
how does a guy with 270 confirmed kills say that his plane is inferior? I also doubt it because on paper the bf109 certainly had some advantages like energy retention which is fairly important in a dofight. But I also cannot prove that what you are saying isnt true so I'm not gonna act like im certain of anything. I mean no offense though it just seems a little weird to me.
@@Odibio.Skins. Thanks for reply and that is good question friend. First of all he didn't confirm his kills, i guess its the air force (Luftwaffe) and goverment. I also thing its almost unbelievable but according to history records and files its pretty much confirmed. Well, " inferior"... im not so sure im right there. The 109 is a beast.
@@captainicelander3898 Thank you for the good response.
@@Odibio.Skins. Thank you brother.
Great video, love the WW2 content just as much as the Modern stuff
The 30mm Mk 108 cannon has very low muzzle velocity. Early in the fight I felt as though you were just a fraction late on the trigger to be able to get hits. With a bit more practice, I'm sure you will get the hang of it. Good fight though, enjoyed watching.
Love the WWII content and your flying man! Keep up the great work - I always enjoy your videos.
PilotPhotog U the man brother thanks for dropping by
10:22
i just cant imagine how bad this would turn out in war thunder
All the wing rip off , explode the plane , kill the pilot and if survive , just to crash again
Well In warthunder more than likely the P-51 would’ve been able to get around onto the back of the 109 before it even got down to the deck. The 109 in that game is an absolute turd at closer dog fighting, it’s a boom and zoom energy fighter only. The FW-109 is the one on the German side that can keep up with the P-51 at turning.
Yeah, there wasn't really any care for energy here Not a good idea to waste energy like that.
@@Youda00008 in warthunder a p47 with full bombload can out turn a fw190. I don't know if the guys from gaijin know what inertia is.
@@Youda00008 The fw-190 might be able to use it's roll to maneuver around the p-51 but yeah.
This was an awesome dogfight the maneuvering was superb. WW2 dog fighting was so dependent on the skill and courage of the pilots making WW2 combat more interesting, kind of like two skilled swords men going at it.
I was just watching an older WW2 fight of yours today! So glad to see a new one!
Gucci Dan thanks for coming and tuning in again man more WW2 stuff in the future seems lots of people liked it
Love the WW2 stuff.. I would rather see more fights than tacview breakdowns on warbirds IMO. I like when you both switch planes half way through and keep score. Keep it up! Love your content GS!
Love the DCS ww2 content. DCS is getting more ww2 love recently and I’m loving it! Keep it up!
That was well fought. By both drivers. Great vid GS!
"ah this is bad here, I have departed flight." he says it so casually haha
Interesting to see two German-designed planes fighting each other. ( Willy Messerscmitts design group vs Edgar Schmued from North American)
???
@@gcmandrake8682 P51 was designed by a german
@@threadworm437 German American. So basically an American. The majority of Americans probably have some German ancestry
Finally the match up I've been long waiting for.. I truly believe the number of reported lost P51s in ww2 air to air combat was watered down and never been corrected after all these years.. thanks for the video
Man, this brings me back to the IL-2 days.
I read an article in Flight Journal 1999 wherein Mark Hanna, a pilot who had the opportunity to fly many current flying WW2 warbirds including P-51, flew a 109G-10 variant, which was very similar in configuration/performance to the K. In his summary he stated..."I like the airplane... ...I think it will give most of the Allied fighters I have flown a hard time - particularly in a close, hard turning, low speed dogfight. It will definitely out-maneuver a P-51 in this type of fight because the roll rate and slow-speed characteristics are much better."
I've read several Luftwaffe pilot accounts where they would use a slow spiral climb to escape a P-51; they knew from experience that the P-51 was heavier and would not be able to follow. On the other hand, the P-51 was the superior high speed fighter, so each had advantages and your combat demonstrates the above assessment.
One thing I noticed, at least it seems that you did not deploy flaps during your 3 attempted intercepts of his climb evasions. Flaps for a 109 or 190 are critical, life and death, and watching the top 190/109 fliers online you can always find this mastery of using flap settings, especially in the slow climbing maneuvers such as your combat. This is your take away: combat flaps, Take off flaps, Landing flaps, repeat! ;)
Whilst you’re correct in the fact that flaps are important for a 109, they don’t work in DCS like in WT. They are extended by a hand cranked wheel to two positions, 5 and 10 degrees. The only way to see what setting they’re at is to look on the wings at the markings. However after some experience you can know the rate at which they drop and it makes dogfighting whilst using them a lot easier.
Flaps and using the LARGE 109 rudder are key
I love the ww2 stuff i just bought the mustang too so perfect timing. Great video looking forward to more!
SPARKY 209 thanks brother much more WW2 content to come I think
Nice dogfight, i almost feel sorry for the virtual Mustang pilot. He probably took the 30mm round in the head, kinda horrific to see the canopy flying away...
I've been hoping that you'd do some warbird engagements! No one details these better than you. Thanks for sharing! More please!
A detail that might help explain the stall issue:
If I recall correctly, during most of 1944-45 fuel was so scarce in Germany that planes were flying with pretty poor quality aviation fuel. Whereas Allied planes would probably be at peak performance. I imagine that even a small difference in quality of the fuel could offset the engine power enough to cause a stall to happen sooner and be harder to recover from.
This was a class for who plays war thunder, really good
go watch AdamTheEnginerd, DEFYN, Green Fury and Whooptiedo
But only P51D30 and P51H get to fight the K4, and P51H actually out climb and out run and out turn at high alt then the bf109 with a 0.6 gap. The P51D30 is going to be the one having problem
If you manage to energy trap the P-51H then that thing is toast
Also greenfury is an awesome youtube. Taught me everything
Too bad the K4 only fights the post war version and other bullshit
War Thunder is just arcade bullshit with planes never fighting what they did historically....
You can't use German shit as it supposed to be used, you're always the under dog going up against planes 1-2 sometimes 3 era's ahead of yours..
Man, that wing scrape really tightened the turn up!
Love the tacview (with the soft piano). That's what Il-2 is missing.
That was a pretty good dogfight. Was close @ 10:21 where your wingtip hit the ground. Lucky you didn't cartwheel. Great video.
That nearly turned into mutual destruction. Tense fight.
Oh my favorite plane here :D Very nice combat, love it! At 5:08 when it start to spin on itself during a stall, I usually just cut the throttle and it recovers very well!
been missing that post-kill slo-mo sound track
Imagine forcing an overshoot so the guy behind you just rams your tail, oh yeah Warthunder
I LOVE these older plane, non-BVR, guns only dogfights.
Great timing for this video especially with the upcoming sale of the 109 and Mustang!
Mr. Offensive ahah oh shit really I honestly didn't know about an upcoming sale.
So cool to see old dogfights!
I much impruwed my skill just watching ur fights. Thank u for deep analysis
My pleasure glad it was useful
Love WW2 era aircraft so please keep it coming sir thank you. I think those dogfights were more reliant on human skill and judgement rather than technological wizardry.
wow you committed to the kill to the point you dragged the wingtip on the snow 😍 beautiful
When the shells hit - they hit hard:
30mm Minengeschoss round had (72 grams of Nitropenta(PETN)), PGU-13/B HEI round for GAU-8/A Avenger gun from A-10 Warthog have 58g of HE filling.
Absolutely brilliant dogfight! Amazing! More of this stuff please :-)
Reminiscent of a dogfight that Clarence "Bud" Anderson often spoke about in his '51 vs a 109 in a protracted vertical scissors
GS+Warbirds = perfection
I'd love to see your take on a fight of a 109 vs a spitfire. That's always an interesting matchup.
Awesome video man! really enjoy your WW2 content, keep it up! :)
This was graceful to watch. Yes to these flights.
Awesome video! Really enjoy your WW2 content, keep it up! :)
Judging from TAC View. I believe stall maneuver works not because P-51 can recover stall better, but because of it recovers slower plus uncontrollable roll during stall which has a chance preventing Bf-109 from reacquiring Mustang. Since Bf-109 may orient towards wrong direction after stall (since roll is barely controllable if not at all) with P-51 hidden by the cockpit (not inside to pilot's upper hemisphere).
Notice P-51 stalled at 6:03:48 (17:34) and recovered at 6:03:56 (17:43), that took at least 8 seconds, where as Bf-109 stalled at 6:03:55 (17:57) and recovered at 6:04:01 (18:03), which took 6 seconds. Bf-109 recovered two seconds faster.
If P-51 and Bf-109 entered stall together, Bf-109 will recover faster than P-51 and gain speed while P-51 was recovering and still experiencing a lot of drag. Since Bf-109 recovered early and started gaining speed, naturally Bf-109 will overshoot, P-51 will be immediately on Bf-109's six after mustang recovered.
Furthermore, if P-51 failed with this maneuver (while not being shot down in the process), he still has a chance to escape since Bf-109 may be oriented the wrong way. If Bf-109 loses sight on P-51, mustang can then speed away and regain advantage, or simply escape.
Another great vid GS. Keep them coming!
great tacview explanation - you're a a skilled instructor!
That wing strike is a thing of legend.
109 K lose control 3 times in a dog fight still come on top, I guess the only thing P51D can do is run then
Agree, P51 should just run away after realise he is at similar energy state at merge with K4.
The bf k was built to be better the p51 did it job but a 1v1 only a spit would win
Well it really is a worthless comparison in a 1 vs 1 scenario. The P-51D was designed to do 1 thing. Escort bombers, and thus range was the most critical design requirement. The US didn’t put much effort into interceptors, as they were not really needed.
@@jayxer7902
yea wish the devs at War Thunder knew this... P-51 can do everything better than the BF 109's, dive, climb, turn, retain energy... its dumb...
They definitely wanked the 109K
If he had lost control in a real dog fight, his own aircraft would have killed him.
HOLY SH*T!! That was an UH-Mazing dogfight! Mustang was king at high altitudes, but get it low, and the odds evened out real quick.
I liked you jet content. (Popped into my suggested list at some point.)
But i do like the 'analog' planes even more. Never actually looked at DCS since I thought it was just jets.. Sure going to have a look at it now. (Tough, with no flight experience at all, i'm thinking it's going to be one steep learning curve. )
Thanks for the vid, man. Really cool.
Definitely love to see more WWII content. Is there a mission for Midway or Pearl Harbor attack?
5:30 if it was war thunder, that P-51 had became a brick in that low speed manouver.. damn both of you are good pilot..
Growling Sidewinder - Okay, I'm pulling up on his six o'clock... Fox, uhh... fifty!
From what I have read in books of dogfights between P-51's and BF-109 aircraft is that the P-51 would outclimb the BF-109 which would stall out trying to follow them vertically.
Yeh I would love more WW2 content! Great video!👍
Pity of it is that back in the days when Air Warrior was the first and only MMO - though that acronym had yet to be coined - many WWII era pilots were still living. And, although it took some doing, we'd get some to speak at our annual conventions. All were rather surprised. Here they were expecting video gamers and what they got was simulation enthusiasts steeped in the history of the era. Just like today. Of that group I think only Bud Anderson - whose story you recount - is still alive as I write this.
One, Bruce Carr, was nearing the end when he spoke to us. He's the fellow who, after he was shot down behind German lines, escaped in a FW 190. Quite a story. Knowing of his health, we flew him in in a two seat Mustang. Stallion 51 in Florida as I recall. Lee Lauderback was the pilot but Mr. Carr got to fly that Mustang one last time. But I digress. As others have noted, Anderson was not facing a K4 in the story he wrote about in To Fly and Fight. All we can do is remember them now. And I'm sure many, many WWII sim players do. It's nice to play a game based on something real.
It is a nice break, I love the bf109. However jet dogfights are my favorite. I loved the f86 v Mig15 fight. But honestly, any content from you is good!
I can only imagine what our guys thought after seeing the Me-262 or the 163 Komet for the first time in air combat. Good thing their numbers were few and fuel was in short supply!
many p-51 pilots met there match when they ran into a late model 109 with a vet pilot and high octain gas to turn up the boost
Please more of these old school dogfights, even Spanish civil war if possible.
what the stall maneuver was, it was using the better energy retention of the P-51 to make the following 109 stall before the 51 then the 51 could drop on the 109's six
The music sounds like the theme to ‘Battlefield: 1942’, an early but great game on pc.
why don`t you lower the flaps when in a tight turn fight? I always do that and it helps
Agree but keepin flaps closed allow to preserve speed during turns. It's wise to keep them close if you know what are you doing. For example sometimes It's better to make step climb turning without flaps, than horizontal turn with flaps. You can find example of this if you check my 109 vs 109 dogfight video. There one 109 do horizontal flaps lowered turn while other 109 turn with climbing without flaps.
Loving the WW2 content! Please keep it coming!
Phillip Sobel hear you loud and clear Phil. Will do brother
@@GrowlingSidewinder If you do requests, I'm really struggling with the Bf-109 in takeoff and landing. Would appreciate some instruction with the controls showing what you're doing?
Loving the World War 2 content, I'd love to see some more Il-2 as well if you decide to add some more flight sims to your rooster.
A testament to 51's clean airframe. K was about 25% lighter, and engine was 25% larger.
More WWII dogfights would be awesome!
As asked in the pasta pls bring more WWII content in the channel, also 2 Vs 2, B-17 engage etc. etc.
BF-109's wing tip at 10:21 doing some carves on powder
You're a very good winner from the videos that I have seen so far, you always compliment the other Pilot.
Love your WW2 stuff as much as the modern warfare fighters - Good job 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Really enjoy the videos for the WW2 campaign (not to say I dislike the others, they're all great) but always been a huge fan of the prop jobs.
The P-51D is not superior to the K4 in the vertical. It's not superior in the horizontal either. It's also slower in a straight line at pretty much any altitude. It's got inferior sustained turn and inferior instantaneous turn. The only advantages it has are range, payload, dive performance, massively improved ergonomics and high speed controllability. Until the 109 runs out of MW50, of course, but at that point it's probably out of fuel too.
It's simply a generation behind the 109 variant you have, and it's a big, heavy long range escort fighter, not a hotrod front line interceptor. More comparable to the various later G models.
Honestly, the relative advantages and disadvantages are quite similar to the MiG-15/F-86 match up, except the differences are quite a bit more pronounced.
Ok Wehraboo
P51D is faster at lower altitudes and it turns better than any 109 above 400 kph
P51 was generation behind 262, K4 was a good counter to the pony from the same generation at best
@@corvus8752 above 400kph, good luck staying there in a turn with any piston engined fighter. Jets aren't even on the same performance scale, it's apples to oranges. But you can compare the engines and airframes of piston fighters pretty closely. K4 is ahead of D25 and D30 mustangs it faced over Europe in most metrics that matter in a 1v1 dogfight. At least on paper, anyway.
By that stage of the war the Germans barely had any competent pilots left and their build quality was pretty horrible. Not to mention they still had many of the older models flying around. But the MW50 boosted DB605s gave their last model 109s the raw performance to give any front line allied piston engined fighter of the time a run for its money. Compared to later griffon spitfires or the H model mustangs it would be outmatched.
I think a lot of people misconstrue these kinds of comparisons as saying some plane was inherently "better" than another. When really, the P-51 is a very different plane from the 109 to begin with, and their incremental development stages don't line up perfectly in terms of performance. It just so happens that the D25/30s are mostly outmatched by K4s when looking at the performance figures, just like G6s are outmatched by D25/30s. Not even considering the fact that the Mustangs had probably flown half way across the continent to the fight, while 109s were operating around their airfields. Ask a 109 to escort a bomber raid and see what happens.
More WWII content would be super cool. There's just something about warbirds going at it that is so dang cool
God, energyfighting a k-4 on the deck in a p-51 is just a bad idea. The guy didn't have a chance.
Wasnt the p51 one of the first "boom & zoom" fighters?
@@tim1polman not really, although the p51 would prolly have no issues with employing such a tactic
I love the BF2 soundtrack!
BF 109 just doesn't sound right because I grew up listening to Aces High from Iron Maiden, and always remember the lyrics as "Bandits at 8 o'lock move in behind us, 10 ME 109s out of the sun. Ascending and turning our spitfires to face them; Heading straight for them I press down my guns."
Awesome! Please do more of these! It would be really cool to see the roles reversed and see you in the P-51D.
Duncan Stevens In due time brother in due time. Thanks for tuning in.