That is freakin awesome! I had one way back in the day, but gave it to my Daughter, and she and her Theatre Director used it in High School. I figured it was for a good cause. Wish I had it, just coz…
New technology always costs more in the beginning to off set the cost of the research and development of the new technology come on now that's how the game is played the company put up most of the funds for start up then created a demand for the product then charged the consumers for expanding/ manufacturing of the product and technology in 5 years it's gonna be stream line and all companies are gonna use the same technology and the price will drop then the process will start all over again
We used a Milwaukee Battery drill in the 80’s. It was a 12 volt car battery sealed in a heavy gauge iron box connected with a 1/2 inch thick cord to the drill. The cord was not detachable. Drill had a 1/2 inch chuck. It turned slow and had enough torque to break your arm with an on off trigger. Weighed over 50 pounds and charged over night. It was better than running 500 feet of extension. It never ran out of juice before the job was done. I think about it sometimes when using my m12 with a 1/2 inch chuck.
In 2007 I bought a set of Craftsman 19.2v tools, drill, driver, small circular saw and light in a case set. Used it for some remodels, in a snowboard building shop and now for 5 years on a sailboat as 'boat tools". I wore out the first set of NiCad and upgraded to early lithium's. The saw wore out (plastic blade bearings found on autopsy) and got a new one for $25 on a closeout to replace it. Later after Craftsman went to 20v I switched to Makita and have been with them for 8-10 years or so. Nice to be able to get pro grade tools and lawn stuff on the same battery system. But the Craftsman tools are still working after many years of hard use.
I got a Craftsmen Drill/Driver set with Li-ion 19.2v battery back in 2012 on a in-store Black Friday sale for about $120. I'm still using that driver and it's working well. Drill has barely been touched. It works though. I just bought an impact socket set and drill bit set because I prefer the driver. My first cordless was a Stanley drill, either NiCAD 9.6V or 10.8V with 2 batteries. It needed two batteries because they couldn't keep a charge. It had a level bubble and nice chuck but the batteries sucked ass.
i had that first Makita. I'm now nearly 100% 18V Makita for battery powered tools. I do hope they keep innovating on the 18V line. How about a video on who is actually building these batteries?. There is a supply chain and probably less manufacturing companies than there are brands, but this is opaque to us end users. Maybe shine some light on this.
My father in law had the first Makita, it was Nicad, he was a cabinet builder and a salesman sold them on it driving a 3” screw through a 4x4. He has told me that story several times. LOL
It was my understanding that the 6Ah Milwaukee Forge was pouch cells, and the newer 12Ah Forge is tab-less 21700 size. So just to confuse things, one Forge isn't built like the other.. 🤠👍
Yeah it's super annoying. I was looking to get a new battery, and saw the FORGE with the venting and got confused. So the 6.0 is pouch, the 8 and 12 are tabless. Size and weight vs. raw power I guess.
Current cordless battery costs are ridiculous. I only buy batteries at Christmas when they have special deals. If they can shrink battery sizes with the same AHrs that is worthwhile technology. I have heard we are years away from any next generation battery design using completely new chemistry/technology.
@@1pcfred Compared to what exactly? Li-Ion batteries are great compared to the other alternatives. I mean the legacy designs which aren't all that expensive except in the contractor grade brands. I could care less about shrinking batteries, though I do want a light weight one when using an impact driver overhead for longer than a few minutes.
@@stinkycheese804 compared to gasoline. Gasoline is 13,500 Watt Hours a liter. Lithium Ion is 400 All batteries suck. That's why we can make internal combustion engines that are only 10% efficient and they still kick ass. Because you're still double over batteries for power storage then. That's how bad batteries suck.
Wow I had that B&D. Lasted a good solid year of lightweight homeowner grade use. Loved your explanation of the battery tech, I wondered why Dewalt had changed the shape of their batteries, this explains it.
I remember using a Panasonic cordless screwdriver in the early 90s it was 20 years old then and still worked perfectly. The Bosch pro core batteries are amazing.
I'll never forget my first time. I bought a Skill 3/8 cordless with ni-cads in the 80s. Followed by a DeWalt also with ni-cads. Short battery lives.Thanks for the video
You mentioned flat battery cells. That gave me a memory. Polaroid instant cameras had film packs with 8(?) photo's in them. The film pack had a flat battery that "ran" the camera. It had 2 metalic contacts kind of centered on the flat side of it. It never occurred to me to measure the voltage.
Not at all. It was a 1/4 inch thick rectangle. Not a hard plastic cassette. No cylinder batterys in it. Geez. It's been 40? years ago. The memory fades. Someone re-intoduced them lately. Expensive for ten? Shots. Don't remember the price now.
Great vidoe sir. I can't wait for you all to get the Bosch ProCore 18V+ Tabless Battery in North America. You all will love it. SO much power and most importantly, runtime. Much Respect
The 9.6v makita had battery pack that were both NIMH and NMCD, however they were a few years apart from one another. I think I may still have a few batteries from my old makita drill. My pops had the B&D Drill, talk about a completely mind bending tool back in the day.
I remember when Makita released the first brushless drill. That was a game changer in aviation. Before that the Snap-On ratcheting screwdriver was the go to tool. I still have mine and it still works like the day I bought it for way too much money off the tool truck. It was much faster than a regular #2 Philips. But the brushless was huge because before that there were no electric tools that could be used on aircraft because of the sparks off the brushes. Suddenly with a brushless cordless drill you could remove the hundred or more screws on the cover panels to the fuel cell in minutes instead of hours.
Back in my AF days, we were allowed 12V and under for exterior use. The fuel cell guys had to either go manual or haul out the intrinsically safe tools, and those make those $1000 hammers look like a bargain.
@@alanmajors9100 Oh gawd, the pain and embarrassment of having to call out metals teck to remove a stuck screw... I'd almost forgotten those days. Mine was on KC-135s from the 92 ARW.
I was put off cordless power tools for a very long time when I bought my first. A 4.8V NiH Ryobi drill. It took less than a dozen screws out of timber before it needed recharging. What I do find amusing is the exaggeration of the cheap Amazon/Ebay tools. Recently bought one quoted as 26V. Considering the included charger has an output of 21V, it's actually just another 18V. Thanks for the video, explaining a lot of what's not normally out there in the info world.
10-15 years ago, I had HTC phones with the rectangular flat batteries that I had to switch out every day or so. They would get hot, and eventually swell up and bloat so they wouldn't fit in the phone anymore..
He specifically mentions those, those are lithium polymer. It's the highest energy density, which is why it is used when weight is a high concern. They do not like heat, you are correct.
My complaint is how bloody difficult new batteries are to remove from their packaging. Sometimes almost needing to go to the ER to get stitched up after space age plastic has done its number.
Makita makes the best battery imo. Have some 40v xgts that have a couple thousand cycles on them at least and still perform just the same as brand new! If i had not dated them with a marker, i wouldnt know new from old
I worked in a warehouse where we installed fireplaces in new homes, We had a fleet of installers and they used those Makita drills. I had a ton of those things. The installers loved them. And they were NiCad batteries. I can't wat for those new batteries to hit the U.S.
I grew up using that Makita drill, dad had one. I think it's still working, though dad switched to Milwaukee a few years ago when he got a big multiset as incentive to buy a pickup
I recently inherited a bunch of hand and power tools from my neighbor whose husband passed away last year (she's moving out of her house to an apartment in town, can't take it all with her). Among the tools I got was an OG blue Ryobi drill and circ saw with a single NiCd battery and charger. I plugged the battery into the drill, no charge, obviously from sitting. I plugged the battery in the charger, it showed it was charging, but when I came out a few hours later, it was blinking red indicating it was bad. I was bummed, but I remembered my Ryobi lithium chargers know the difference between lithium and NiCd and can charge both while running a conditioning on the batteries, so I plugged it into one of those and I came out later that night to a freshly charged battery! I put it on one of my brushless drills and while it did spin it, I could definitely tell the different in output compared to one of my normal lithium or HP batteries. I don't know what use it'll be, but it's neat to have something like that still work and it's compatible with all the other tools. They done good. Though, I don't know if the battery is even holding a charge, I haven't actually run it for an extended period of time, it might have just been that initial shock of being charged and it could only be holding 50% capacity.
The major benefit of the Ni-cads is that there is no current limiting on the pack. The Li-ion pack (especially the early ones) will shut off If I put my old Ryobi 3speed drill under a heavy load. A fresh Ni-cad will let it pull enough power to spin you off a ladder in first gear.
I bought my first Dewalt cordless drill 10 years ago to work on my son's Eagle Scout project. I bought the drill and 4 batteries, which I labeled 1 through 4. I have since added many other Dewalt tools. Those original batteries still work! I have added more batteries but the original 4 still hold a charge. I thought your video was going to be about the counterfeit batteries that a plaguing Amazon. Have to be careful even buy a "name brand" battery. Some are fakes, scary dangerous fakes.
All the old batteries for cordless tools were NiCd (Nickle Cadmium). NiMH (Nickle Metal Hydride) didn't come until many, many years later. LiO (Lithium Ion) Batteries came in really quickly after NiMh. The original Ryobi 18v and Craftsmen 19.2v were NiCd, to put timelines into perspective. Neither had a NiMh option, but went straight from NiCd to Lithium Ion. I have used cordless tools since 9.6v was the standard, like that Makita drill at the start.
I'm in the Ryobi line, but I've recently stocked up on batteries through a Ryobi Days BOGO. Which means it will be a while before I get into their Edge line of batteries. But I will definitely be looking at them when the time comes.
If you’re using it for something not too serious and just DIY stuff the third party batteries are a good route. Works perfect with all my outdoor stuff and very very cheap. Really makes it much more convenient. Now my Milwaukee stuff is for more important stuff so I wouldn’t try it for that occasion.
We had that BD cordless drill at work. We never put it on the service van because it might drill 2 or 3 1/4 holes in wood before it died. We got Makita 3/8 drill and those batteries lasted and survived 2 or 3 years in a van through 100 degree summers and sub freezing winters. Replacement batteries lasted about 18 months. Also had the Milwaukee screwdriver that bent in the middle and had a clutch. It was great for electronic gear. That's a tool I miss.
Lithium pouch cells can still be quite dangerous if they get bent via compression of the container or don't have room to expand inside their container during charge/discharge and they are also a bit more vulnerable to puncturing. They do more efficiently use the space in a battery container however.
If they sell us newer batteries that last twice as long but cost twice as much it's pointless to all but the few that absolutely need a higher discharge rate, and given all current tools were built to perform well with tabbed battery tech, i don't think anyone is missing out.
Those original Makita drills had 9.6 volt Ni-Cad batteries. We thought they were the best thing ever... until we had to buy new batteries. The battery cost almost as much as a new drill and battery. 🤨
Dewalt and Milwaukee tabless are using Ampace JP40 cells which belongs to CATL where Makita F series are using Murata VX40 Not sure what Bosch and other use !
The cell manufacturers are behind any improvements in power packs, not the tool manufacturers although they have to design the controllers to best manage the cells.
Visit my Restore in Lawrence, KS if you want that Makita from the 80s-90s. They are always there, sometimes with aftermarket batteries and a flashlight.
“It will Shine, when it Shines” OMD Bear gettin ‘er done, with a great little video. Battery Technology is only beginning to Live up to it’s potential. It will be exciting to see what the future holds.
This was very educational for me , thanks . I’ll will definitely pick some Forge Batteries in the future . Just too many deals on power tools right now that it’s hurting the wallet 😂
Great channel, but you made one omission, the Hitachi cordless drive. I bought one in 1980s and was the first guy in the shop that had one. Everyone laughed at me and called it "the green mamba." By the end of the month, every guy in the shop had one. ;-)
Great video, I am looking at replacing some of my old Dewalt 20v batteries with powerstack, do I hold off and get get the new PowerPack or just get the powerstack. I am part time woodworker/prosumer.
Im still ising the orinal batteries in my rioby trimer and my balck&decker leaf blower they are about 5 yaers old was thinking of replacing both until I priced them forget it will keep using them until the are completely dead the prices are absolutely insane
Lipo cells would be a great use for high powered packs. People are way too scared of lipo. It does have downsides, but the explosion potential is blown out of proportion I’ve went through several kilowatts of RC batteries. Ive seen 2-3 swell up, and one of those was a used battery. However the main issue I believe that would be an issue for power tools is storage. I ALWAYS storage my lipo cells at 3.8v/cell if they’re not getting used within 48-72 hours. So basically it would be necessary to charge within 48 hours of use. Auto storage functionality is common in RC batteries so there’s no reason not to do that to power tool packs, as well as adding a storage mode function to the chargers (charges the pack to 3.8v/cell instead of 4.2v for fully charged). Then again, when we do see RC batteries used to power these tools, they tend to deliver so much power the tools can break themselves.
Ive still got LXT and M18 batteries that have a decade of hard use on them and they still work pretty good. Unless something amazing happens, i have no reason to upgrade batteries at the moment. They cost way too much.
Hey sorry I just wanted to say u kinda messed up cause the Milwaukee forged 6ah battery are pouched cells like the powerstack not tab less.... I believe there's talks about a bigger sized forged battery having the tabless
i went with dewalt for one pretty stupid reason: i usually do most work in near darkness in cramped spaces and a bright yellow tool was simply harder to lose in that space. lowes (damn them) sometimes has two of the big 20v batteries for sale for $99. with my 5% commercial account and .5% tax i get the big battery for only $45 each. over the years ive built up a small stack of them so theyre always available when i need them.
Great vid as always! Best tool all around tool channel ever! Q:Longevity aside - Which tools get the most power out of these premium batteries? Specifically I am on the M12/M18 platform.
What's the difference between the "new" Hercules 20V 5ah batteries vs the current version? The twin pack of the current model is on sale for $99. Is thius sale due the new 5ah being upgraded? I did see the easy view battery gauge is on the opposite side now (now under gray battery release button).
As far as DIY is concerned, aside from a few pros who use Ryobi, most of the time the batteries are used very infrequently and you’d likely lose the battery to time verses losing it to discharge cycles. Other than some of the chainsaws, rotary hammers, impact wrenches and maybe one or two more tools, I just don’t see the need here. I barely see a different between HP and non HP batteries even on my 1-inch rotary hammer using the 9ah battery. What I want from Ryobi is AFFORDABLE, high capacity batteries that will run my inverters, my work lights, my fans, the speakers, my inflators and other non high demand tools for longer. That’s where the R&D needs to be focused on - making larger capacity batteries more affordable. I don’t need some tech laden EDGE tabless batteries that are more expensive and largely won’t make a spec of difference in performance to the weekend warrior. I TTi marketing has it figured out though…just like the older brother in red, die hard Ryobi “fans” will buy the batteries, no matter the cost and those are the folks being targeted. The need to catch em all and add it to the collection will be too great.
If you really want to see future batteries, look at Hilti Nuron and Festool 18V. Nurons monitor themselves, and your tool condition, usage, and location, and report the information. If you have fleet service, a Hilti guy will show up with a replacement if something's going bad. Festool batteries monitor themselves and talk to your phone, and the dust collectors. A glance at the app will tell you which ones need charging (and will make them flash so you can ID them), and if you've got them with you when you leave your home base.
I got one of those little Dewalt batteries not long ago that came with a new tool or I wouldn't have one. At the time they only offered 2ah, nothing bigger. Don't know if that has changed? Have to say though I love the battery. Smaller and lighter is def a plus. Don't know that it performs any better but it's certainly not any worse. They had some pretty good sales going on at the time on 5ah batteries and I cashed in and stocked up. That and a new fast charger..... I'm set for a good while now.
will your old regular 20v dewalt charger work or do you have to buy a new powerstack charger for the powerstack line of battery? and if you do will the powerstack battery charger charge the old 20v batteries , i hope i didnt butcher that question to much ..
And the $30 Plug in Version still works better and Lasts Longer and has more power. Buy the Tool. Buy the Battery. Buy the Charger. And then you have to plan days in advance to make sure you're charged up when you need it. And some times you need to buy 2 or 3 extra Batteries and also 2 or 3 Extra Chargers. Where all you do is plug the cheap one in and it's always ready. All the time. Every time. Instead of a $30 tool and a $10 Cord. You have a $150 tool. $250-$300 in Batteries. And $200 of Chargers. Then you need 3 or 4 Dedicated outlets so you can charge all those batteries 2 Days before you need them. $30 vs $650.
I have an old Milwaukee 9.6 v drill. Just about everything else is 50 -70 y-o plug in. Unless u=you constantly use battery tools, they are not worth the investment, since the battery tech makes them obsolete in a couple years. Conveniently, the new batteries don't fit the old tools, even of the same brand. BTW---What happened to the BEAR?
If Hercules comes out with tabless, that would be awesome…lol! I’m on all 3 of the TTI brands and will get into the tabless when all they come available for sure!
Before the 7.2V Makita ( The first actually USABLE cordless drill that was available in retail stores ) Nickel Cadmium, as I recalll... came in a metal case with a flashlight and charger.and BEFORE the B&D crappola one you found to show us in video, there was the ROCKWELL line of cordless tools... They had everything.... Drill, Jig Saw, Circ Saw, flashlight, and 3-5 other tools I cannot even recall.... They were a bright cheesy yellow, abs plastic... absolute garbage... run time 30 seconds, charge time... overnight.... FISHER PRICE kids toy cordless tools would have worked far better. This was approx. 1976... Inside each tool were 3 rechargeable C Cells. junk, but they did foreshadow the direction of things to come.
Remember when every brand of flashlight used the same d size battery. The proprietary mounting system for every brand battery is a little bit ridiculous. Universal battery mounting would be a whole lot more user-friendly. Example, Black & Decker makes DeWalt, both use a similar but slightly different battery mount.
I don't understand how Ryobi is advertising their Edge batteries as more power and capacity but the AH rating is the same. If a 4ah experiences a 50% increase is capacity, wouldn't that make it a 6ah battery?
I didn’t read through 70+ comments, but the OEM tool manufacturers either assemble or 3rd party outsource these battery packs. The battery cells, at least the good ones, are made by Samsung, Sony, Panasonic Sanyo and LG. The aftermarket or legacy packs have China made battery cells which tend to be overrated, meaning those batteries do not exceed 3000 mAH. So DeWalt, Makita, etc, buy battery cells from the 1st quality battery manufacturers. That’s why when evaluating Kobalt, Harbor Freight battery pack, do they source the cells from the Korean or Japanese companies, or the cheaper China 3rd party manufacturers. The assumption is that the tool manufacturers will pass down any battery manufacturing cost reductions to consumers.
I bought 2 brand new Bosh 4ah batteries. Within 2 weeks 1 wouldn't recharge after another 3 weeks the 2nd one wouldn't. Lowes did give me a refund. Have you come across something similar?
Jeff, do you know if the new tabless Makita batteries will work with their current 18v tool line? I'd hate to buy a new battery only to have either my old charger or tool can't use.
18650s and 21700s are the same chemistry, with the same power density. The latter just has about half again more total volume, so you get more amp hours for the same voltage, and no more connections to wire. However, it sidesteps the problem of stepping up the parallel value in integers. 10x 18650s weighs more than 5x 21700s, but they keep intersecting at their common denominators, so 15x 18650s is no different from 10x 21700s. One dud will bring down the whole pack, of course, so there may be some additional balancing advantage to having fewer cells. If pouches were a single cell, there would be a greater advantage, but they are also stacks, because the voltages have to be added. Maybe someone will invent hexagonal cells at some point, but airflow or even heatsinks might not be something we should overlook.
I have a corded drill and circular saw that my father owned These battery tools are great if you're on a jobsite, but I work in my shop and don't need the portability. Longevity & durability are what I'm looking for. Corded tools are getting much harder to find
Correct me if I’m wrong. But I have a weird suspicion that one factory is making batteries for a bunch of different companies and slapping their names on them. I’d love to get to the bottom of it.
I dont think makita was the first to Lithium tools.. I had panasonic 14.4v in the early 2000s. They are only in JP and EU. Makes sense right, since they were the go to for original lith batteries. Btw, is 2024 and all my 14.4 batteries are still alive. Crazy yeah
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You have done a better job of explaining tabless electrode battery design than most experts.
"experts" LTFOL !
I still have that Makita drill shown in beginning. It belonged to my grandfather. It ran on 9.6v NiCd battery pack.
Same here, thinking about rebuilding the battery.... why? Just cus...
That was my first cordless drill. Got it from Costco.
But my older brother took the battery when he helped me fix our deck.
Brothers, who needs them.
That is freakin awesome! I had one way back in the day, but gave it to my Daughter, and she and her Theatre Director used it in High School. I figured it was for a good cause. Wish I had it, just coz…
That was the first cordless tool I ever used. I worked for an electrician in the late ‘80’s who had a couple
I had the 7.2V in 1983. It came with the flashlight that was almost better than the drill. NiCd.
$5 price difference I wouldn't care. $50 or $100 that's something else
New technology always costs more in the beginning to off set the cost of the research and development of the new technology come on now that's how the game is played the company put up most of the funds for start up then created a demand for the product then charged the consumers for expanding/ manufacturing of the product and technology in 5 years it's gonna be stream line and all companies are gonna use the same technology and the price will drop then the process will start all over again
Ya, except the price drop part😅
We used a Milwaukee Battery drill in the 80’s. It was a 12 volt car battery sealed in a heavy gauge iron box connected with a 1/2 inch thick cord to the drill. The cord was not detachable. Drill had a 1/2 inch chuck. It turned slow and had enough torque to break your arm with an on off trigger. Weighed over 50 pounds and charged over night. It was better than running 500 feet of extension. It never ran out of juice before the job was done. I think about it sometimes when using my m12 with a 1/2 inch chuck.
I have that old Makita drill driver, and it still works and I still use it. I've replaced the chuck and the battery once, but it still works.
I had the original Makita. It was NiCd. What a great tool!
In 2007 I bought a set of Craftsman 19.2v tools, drill, driver, small circular saw and light in a case set. Used it for some remodels, in a snowboard building shop and now for 5 years on a sailboat as 'boat tools". I wore out the first set of NiCad and upgraded to early lithium's. The saw wore out (plastic blade bearings found on autopsy) and got a new one for $25 on a closeout to replace it.
Later after Craftsman went to 20v I switched to Makita and have been with them for 8-10 years or so. Nice to be able to get pro grade tools and lawn stuff on the same battery system.
But the Craftsman tools are still working after many years of hard use.
I got a Craftsmen Drill/Driver set with Li-ion 19.2v battery back in 2012 on a in-store Black Friday sale for about $120. I'm still using that driver and it's working well. Drill has barely been touched. It works though. I just bought an impact socket set and drill bit set because I prefer the driver.
My first cordless was a Stanley drill, either NiCAD 9.6V or 10.8V with 2 batteries. It needed two batteries because they couldn't keep a charge. It had a level bubble and nice chuck but the batteries sucked ass.
I remember the 19.2 V Craftsmen very well. The tools worked great but the batteries were not quite ready yet. I eventually switched to the Dewalt 20v
i had that first Makita. I'm now nearly 100% 18V Makita for battery powered tools. I do hope they keep innovating on the 18V line. How about a video on who is actually building these batteries?. There is a supply chain and probably less manufacturing companies than there are brands, but this is opaque to us end users. Maybe shine some light on this.
My father in law had the first Makita, it was Nicad, he was a cabinet builder and a salesman sold them on it driving a 3” screw through a 4x4. He has told me that story several times. LOL
Not sure which is worse - EVs or battery powered tools.
I had one of those Makita drills in the 90s. Not sure if it was the exact modal shown but I loved that thing.
It was my understanding that the 6Ah Milwaukee Forge was pouch cells, and the newer 12Ah Forge is tab-less 21700 size. So just to confuse things, one Forge isn't built like the other.. 🤠👍
Yeah it's super annoying. I was looking to get a new battery, and saw the FORGE with the venting and got confused. So the 6.0 is pouch, the 8 and 12 are tabless. Size and weight vs. raw power I guess.
Current cordless battery costs are ridiculous. I only buy batteries at Christmas when they have special deals.
If they can shrink battery sizes with the same AHrs that is worthwhile technology.
I have heard we are years away from any next generation battery design using completely new chemistry/technology.
Yeah battery pack prices are out of control. Battery tech absolutely sucks still.
@@1pcfred Compared to what exactly? Li-Ion batteries are great compared to the other alternatives. I mean the legacy designs which aren't all that expensive except in the contractor grade brands. I could care less about shrinking batteries, though I do want a light weight one when using an impact driver overhead for longer than a few minutes.
@@stinkycheese804 compared to gasoline. Gasoline is 13,500 Watt Hours a liter. Lithium Ion is 400 All batteries suck. That's why we can make internal combustion engines that are only 10% efficient and they still kick ass. Because you're still double over batteries for power storage then. That's how bad batteries suck.
Wow I had that B&D. Lasted a good solid year of lightweight homeowner grade use. Loved your explanation of the battery tech, I wondered why Dewalt had changed the shape of their batteries, this explains it.
I remember using a Panasonic cordless screwdriver in the early 90s it was 20 years old then and still worked perfectly.
The Bosch pro core batteries are amazing.
Bosch battery technology is amazing. Even their non-pro line “all for one” batteries are so durable.
I had that old Makita drill - it was NiCad powered.
I'll never forget my first time. I bought a Skill 3/8 cordless with ni-cads in the 80s. Followed by a DeWalt also with ni-cads. Short battery lives.Thanks for the video
You mentioned flat battery cells. That gave me a memory. Polaroid instant cameras had film packs with 8(?) photo's in them. The film pack had a flat battery that "ran" the camera. It had 2 metalic contacts kind of centered on the flat side of it. It never occurred to me to measure the voltage.
Their flat battery was most likely just made like a plastic cassette holder with a series of NiCd or NiMH traditional cylindrical cells in it.
Not at all. It was a 1/4 inch thick rectangle. Not a hard plastic cassette. No cylinder batterys in it. Geez. It's been 40? years ago. The memory fades. Someone re-intoduced them lately. Expensive for ten? Shots. Don't remember the price now.
Great vidoe sir. I can't wait for you all to get the Bosch ProCore 18V+ Tabless Battery in North America. You all will love it. SO much power and most importantly, runtime. Much Respect
Awesome video Jeff. The charts, diagrams, and visuals are where its at. Appreciate that.
The 9.6v makita had battery pack that were both NIMH and NMCD, however they were a few years apart from one another. I think I may still have a few batteries from my old makita drill. My pops had the B&D Drill, talk about a completely mind bending tool back in the day.
Makita XGT are the first to feature Tabless cells with the 4040F 4ah battery, and they work incredible.
I remember when Makita released the first brushless drill. That was a game changer in aviation. Before that the Snap-On ratcheting screwdriver was the go to tool. I still have mine and it still works like the day I bought it for way too much money off the tool truck. It was much faster than a regular #2 Philips. But the brushless was huge because before that there were no electric tools that could be used on aircraft because of the sparks off the brushes. Suddenly with a brushless cordless drill you could remove the hundred or more screws on the cover panels to the fuel cell in minutes instead of hours.
Back in my AF days, we were allowed 12V and under for exterior use. The fuel cell guys had to either go manual or haul out the intrinsically safe tools, and those make those $1000 hammers look like a bargain.
@@anthonybarker9123Flashbacks to sitting on the C141 wing with a good old speed handle, hoping none of the fasteners were corroded or stripped.
@@alanmajors9100 Oh gawd, the pain and embarrassment of having to call out metals teck to remove a stuck screw... I'd almost forgotten those days. Mine was on KC-135s from the 92 ARW.
lol I remember the old makita. I wonder if they will go to life po4 tech or maybe even solid state. I'm sure it's a matter of time.
I was put off cordless power tools for a very long time when I bought my first. A 4.8V NiH Ryobi drill. It took less than a dozen screws out of timber before it needed recharging. What I do find amusing is the exaggeration of the cheap Amazon/Ebay tools. Recently bought one quoted as 26V. Considering the included charger has an output of 21V, it's actually just another 18V.
Thanks for the video, explaining a lot of what's not normally out there in the info world.
Monster truck show reference. Cool. 😎
Those Makita Cordless Drills, they had a Ni-Cd battery of 9.6V and they were pretty good!
I still have one that I inherited and use it regularly. Freaking indestructible!
10-15 years ago, I had HTC phones with the rectangular flat batteries that I had to switch out every day or so. They would get hot, and eventually swell up and bloat so they wouldn't fit in the phone anymore..
He specifically mentions those, those are lithium polymer. It's the highest energy density, which is why it is used when weight is a high concern. They do not like heat, you are correct.
My complaint is how bloody difficult new batteries are to remove from their packaging.
Sometimes almost needing to go to the ER to get stitched up after space age plastic has done its number.
Switch blade or scissors. Package has to be super spill proof for transportation reasons
I had the Makita drill you mentioned. It was Ni-Cad.....
I still have my dad's 9.6 Makita drill and the 9.6 mini tile saw with H2O bottle for cooling blade
Makita makes the best battery imo. Have some 40v xgts that have a couple thousand cycles on them at least and still perform just the same as brand new! If i had not dated them with a marker, i wouldnt know new from old
I worked in a warehouse where we installed fireplaces in new homes, We had a fleet of installers and they used those Makita drills. I had a ton of those things. The installers loved them. And they were NiCad batteries. I can't wat for those new batteries to hit the U.S.
Everyone had that 9.6 volt Makita drill thing was a tank
Me too! If I remember correctly it took a while to wind down after you let go of the trigger.
Absolutely
I grew up using that Makita drill, dad had one. I think it's still working, though dad switched to Milwaukee a few years ago when he got a big multiset as incentive to buy a pickup
I recently inherited a bunch of hand and power tools from my neighbor whose husband passed away last year (she's moving out of her house to an apartment in town, can't take it all with her). Among the tools I got was an OG blue Ryobi drill and circ saw with a single NiCd battery and charger. I plugged the battery into the drill, no charge, obviously from sitting. I plugged the battery in the charger, it showed it was charging, but when I came out a few hours later, it was blinking red indicating it was bad.
I was bummed, but I remembered my Ryobi lithium chargers know the difference between lithium and NiCd and can charge both while running a conditioning on the batteries, so I plugged it into one of those and I came out later that night to a freshly charged battery! I put it on one of my brushless drills and while it did spin it, I could definitely tell the different in output compared to one of my normal lithium or HP batteries.
I don't know what use it'll be, but it's neat to have something like that still work and it's compatible with all the other tools. They done good. Though, I don't know if the battery is even holding a charge, I haven't actually run it for an extended period of time, it might have just been that initial shock of being charged and it could only be holding 50% capacity.
The major benefit of the Ni-cads is that there is no current limiting on the pack. The Li-ion pack (especially the early ones) will shut off If I put my old Ryobi 3speed drill under a heavy load. A fresh Ni-cad will let it pull enough power to spin you off a ladder in first gear.
Green Makita was Ni Cad, black stick battery and then they upgraded to NMH ( red battery) line
My shop has Dewalt and Milwaukee. I've seen both the XR and Edge batteries show up dead on arrival.
I bought my first Dewalt cordless drill 10 years ago to work on my son's Eagle Scout project. I bought the drill and 4 batteries, which I labeled 1 through 4. I have since added many other Dewalt tools. Those original batteries still work! I have added more batteries but the original 4 still hold a charge. I thought your video was going to be about the counterfeit batteries that a plaguing Amazon. Have to be careful even buy a "name brand" battery. Some are fakes, scary dangerous fakes.
All the old batteries for cordless tools were NiCd (Nickle Cadmium). NiMH (Nickle Metal Hydride) didn't come until many, many years later. LiO (Lithium Ion) Batteries came in really quickly after NiMh. The original Ryobi 18v and Craftsmen 19.2v were NiCd, to put timelines into perspective. Neither had a NiMh option, but went straight from NiCd to Lithium Ion. I have used cordless tools since 9.6v was the standard, like that Makita drill at the start.
Thanks for the explanation of tabless batteries. I hope all manufacturers jump on board. Have a great week! Be safe! 😃😃
Very informative. This video is the first I've heard about this new tech. Thanks!
I'm in the Ryobi line, but I've recently stocked up on batteries through a Ryobi Days BOGO. Which means it will be a while before I get into their Edge line of batteries. But I will definitely be looking at them when the time comes.
I might need to do that myself. Good idea
If you’re using it for something not too serious and just DIY stuff the third party batteries are a good route. Works perfect with all my outdoor stuff and very very cheap. Really makes it much more convenient. Now my Milwaukee stuff is for more important stuff so I wouldn’t try it for that occasion.
We had that BD cordless drill at work. We never put it on the service van because it might drill 2 or 3 1/4 holes in wood before it died. We got Makita 3/8 drill and those batteries lasted and survived 2 or 3 years in a van through 100 degree summers and sub freezing winters. Replacement batteries lasted about 18 months. Also had the Milwaukee screwdriver that bent in the middle and had a clutch. It was great for electronic gear. That's a tool I miss.
Lithium pouch cells can still be quite dangerous if they get bent via compression of the container or don't have room to expand inside their container during charge/discharge and they are also a bit more vulnerable to puncturing. They do more efficiently use the space in a battery container however.
If they sell us newer batteries that last twice as long but cost twice as much it's pointless to all but the few that absolutely need a higher discharge rate, and given all current tools were built to perform well with tabbed battery tech, i don't think anyone is missing out.
Those original Makita drills had 9.6 volt Ni-Cad batteries. We thought they were the best thing ever... until we had to buy new batteries. The battery cost almost as much as a new drill and battery. 🤨
Dewalt and Milwaukee tabless are using Ampace JP40 cells which belongs to CATL where Makita F series are using Murata VX40
Not sure what Bosch and other use !
The cell manufacturers are behind any improvements in power packs, not the tool manufacturers although they have to design the controllers to best manage the cells.
Makita needs to bring this tech to their 18v line. I'd be all over a couple to use on my Makita chain saw.
Visit my Restore in Lawrence, KS if you want that Makita from the 80s-90s. They are always there, sometimes with aftermarket batteries and a flashlight.
“It will Shine, when it Shines” OMD
Bear gettin ‘er done, with a great little video. Battery Technology is only beginning to Live up to it’s potential. It will be exciting to see what the future holds.
This is the first time I have seen your channel. Thanks for the very informative video!
Can Milwaukee batteries be used in a DeWalt? How about a video on interchangeable batteries?
Great show! Very informative about the new battery technology.
Any info on upcoming Bauer 14” bandsaw?
This was very educational for me , thanks . I’ll will definitely pick some Forge Batteries in the future . Just too many deals on power tools right now that it’s hurting the wallet 😂
Great channel, but you made one omission, the Hitachi cordless drive. I bought one in 1980s and was the first guy in the shop that had one. Everyone laughed at me and called it "the green mamba." By the end of the month, every guy in the shop had one. ;-)
Great video, I am looking at replacing some of my old Dewalt 20v batteries with powerstack, do I hold off and get get the new PowerPack or just get the powerstack. I am part time woodworker/prosumer.
What is the average longevity for a battery for regular DIY person? Began investing in 20v last year and expanding my tool options, so I'm curious.
When is the standard batteries connection coming into the tools line
Im still ising the orinal batteries in my rioby trimer and my balck&decker leaf blower they are about 5 yaers old was thinking of replacing both until I priced them forget it will keep using them until the are completely dead the prices are absolutely insane
So are all the new Milwaukee Forge batteries tabless?
Lipo cells would be a great use for high powered packs. People are way too scared of lipo. It does have downsides, but the explosion potential is blown out of proportion I’ve went through several kilowatts of RC batteries. Ive seen 2-3 swell up, and one of those was a used battery. However the main issue I believe that would be an issue for power tools is storage. I ALWAYS storage my lipo cells at 3.8v/cell if they’re not getting used within 48-72 hours. So basically it would be necessary to charge within 48 hours of use. Auto storage functionality is common in RC batteries so there’s no reason not to do that to power tool packs, as well as adding a storage mode function to the chargers (charges the pack to 3.8v/cell instead of 4.2v for fully charged). Then again, when we do see RC batteries used to power these tools, they tend to deliver so much power the tools can break themselves.
Ive still got LXT and M18 batteries that have a decade of hard use on them and they still work pretty good.
Unless something amazing happens, i have no reason to upgrade batteries at the moment. They cost way too much.
Hey sorry I just wanted to say u kinda messed up cause the Milwaukee forged 6ah battery are pouched cells like the powerstack not tab less.... I believe there's talks about a bigger sized forged battery having the tabless
i went with dewalt for one pretty stupid reason: i usually do most work in near darkness in cramped spaces and a bright yellow tool was simply harder to lose in that space. lowes (damn them) sometimes has two of the big 20v batteries for sale for $99. with my 5% commercial account and .5% tax i get the big battery for only $45 each. over the years ive built up a small stack of them so theyre always available when i need them.
Great vid as always! Best tool all around tool channel ever!
Q:Longevity aside - Which tools get the most power out of these premium batteries? Specifically I am on the M12/M18 platform.
Fuel. High end brushless with the best processors are going to be the most capable when comes to optimizing the performance from this tech.
What's the difference between the "new" Hercules 20V 5ah batteries vs the current version? The twin pack of the current model is on sale for $99. Is thius sale due the new 5ah being upgraded? I did see the easy view battery gauge is on the opposite side now (now under gray battery release button).
I want to try to find a working example pf one of those old cordless tools shown at the start just to try them.
Thank you for the tutorial - great explanation. I'm forwarding this to my wife and daughter (deaf ears, probably..."Oh, dad...")
As far as DIY is concerned, aside from a few pros who use Ryobi, most of the time the batteries are used very infrequently and you’d likely lose the battery to time verses losing it to discharge cycles. Other than some of the chainsaws, rotary hammers, impact wrenches and maybe one or two more tools, I just don’t see the need here. I barely see a different between HP and non HP batteries even on my 1-inch rotary hammer using the 9ah battery. What I want from Ryobi is AFFORDABLE, high capacity batteries that will run my inverters, my work lights, my fans, the speakers, my inflators and other non high demand tools for longer. That’s where the R&D needs to be focused on - making larger capacity batteries more affordable. I don’t need some tech laden EDGE tabless batteries that are more expensive and largely won’t make a spec of difference in performance to the weekend warrior. I TTi marketing has it figured out though…just like the older brother in red, die hard Ryobi “fans” will buy the batteries, no matter the cost and those are the folks being targeted. The need to catch em all and add it to the collection will be too great.
If they change the contacts, the “plug”, if you will, it’s only a matter of time before they (all makes) get new access to all our pockets.
Interesting. I swear my old 12v dewalt tools lasted longer than my newer 18v tools. Maybe more power but batteries drain faster.
Whatever gets me to buy a new product instead keeping the old one going is the goal.
If you really want to see future batteries, look at Hilti Nuron and Festool 18V. Nurons monitor themselves, and your tool condition, usage, and location, and report the information. If you have fleet service, a Hilti guy will show up with a replacement if something's going bad. Festool batteries monitor themselves and talk to your phone, and the dust collectors. A glance at the app will tell you which ones need charging (and will make them flash so you can ID them), and if you've got them with you when you leave your home base.
I got one of those little Dewalt batteries not long ago that came with a new tool or I wouldn't have one. At the time they only offered 2ah, nothing bigger. Don't know if that has changed? Have to say though I love the battery. Smaller and lighter is def a plus. Don't know that it performs any better but it's certainly not any worse.
They had some pretty good sales going on at the time on 5ah batteries and I cashed in and stocked up. That and a new fast charger..... I'm set for a good while now.
Nickel metal hydride wow that takes me back. Are they going to be backward compatible?
Yes.
will your old regular 20v dewalt charger work or do you have to buy a new powerstack charger for the powerstack line of battery? and if you do will the powerstack battery charger charge the old 20v batteries , i hope i didnt butcher that question to much ..
And the $30 Plug in Version still works better and Lasts Longer and has more power.
Buy the Tool.
Buy the Battery.
Buy the Charger.
And then you have to plan days in advance to make sure you're charged up when you need it. And some times you need to buy 2 or 3 extra Batteries and also 2 or 3 Extra Chargers.
Where all you do is plug the cheap one in and it's always ready. All the time. Every time.
Instead of a $30 tool and a $10 Cord.
You have a $150 tool.
$250-$300 in Batteries.
And $200 of Chargers.
Then you need 3 or 4 Dedicated outlets so you can charge all those batteries 2 Days before you need them.
$30 vs $650.
I have an old Milwaukee 9.6 v drill. Just about everything else is 50 -70 y-o plug in. Unless u=you constantly use battery tools, they are not worth the investment, since the battery tech makes them obsolete in a couple years. Conveniently, the new batteries don't fit the old tools, even of the same brand.
BTW---What happened to the BEAR?
If Hercules comes out with tabless, that would be awesome…lol! I’m on all 3 of the TTI brands and will get into the tabless when all they come available for sure!
I have Ryobi batteries from 2011 that still work fine
Before the 7.2V Makita ( The first actually USABLE cordless drill that was available in retail stores ) Nickel Cadmium, as I recalll... came in a metal case with a flashlight and charger.and BEFORE the B&D crappola one you found to show us in video, there was the ROCKWELL line of cordless tools... They had everything.... Drill, Jig Saw, Circ Saw, flashlight, and 3-5 other tools I cannot even recall.... They were a bright cheesy yellow, abs plastic... absolute garbage... run time 30 seconds, charge time... overnight.... FISHER PRICE kids toy cordless tools would have worked far better. This was approx. 1976... Inside each tool were 3 rechargeable C Cells. junk, but they did foreshadow the direction of things to come.
You are the Bear!! with all of your information.
So how does the power pack compared with the power stack?
Remember when every brand of flashlight used the same d size battery. The proprietary mounting system for every brand battery is a little bit ridiculous. Universal battery mounting would be a whole lot more user-friendly. Example, Black & Decker makes DeWalt, both use a similar but slightly different battery mount.
These companies are making the big money off batteries and they will figure some way to make us buy more of them.
I don't understand how Ryobi is advertising their Edge batteries as more power and capacity but the AH rating is the same. If a 4ah experiences a 50% increase is capacity, wouldn't that make it a 6ah battery?
0:37 My father had that one and I used it many times. No idea what happened to it. I could still exist over my sisters place.
There was a grey BD I think 9v before that Makita. Early 80’s I think
I didn’t read through 70+ comments, but the OEM tool manufacturers either assemble or 3rd party outsource these battery packs. The battery cells, at least the good ones, are made by Samsung, Sony, Panasonic Sanyo and LG. The aftermarket or legacy packs have China made battery cells which tend to be overrated, meaning those batteries do not exceed 3000 mAH. So DeWalt, Makita, etc, buy battery cells from the 1st quality battery manufacturers. That’s why when evaluating Kobalt, Harbor Freight battery pack, do they source the cells from the Korean or Japanese companies, or the cheaper China 3rd party manufacturers. The assumption is that the tool manufacturers will pass down any battery manufacturing cost reductions to consumers.
Isn’t Milwaukee Forge pouch not tabless??
I bought 2 brand new Bosh 4ah batteries. Within 2 weeks 1 wouldn't recharge after another 3 weeks the 2nd one wouldn't. Lowes did give me a refund. Have you come across something similar?
Jeff, do you know if the new tabless Makita batteries will work with their current 18v tool line? I'd hate to buy a new battery only to have either my old charger or tool can't use.
I believe all of these are backwards compatible.
So... what does your HF insider say about this making its way into Hercules/Bauer?
Hello again, Red and Mrs. Bear 🐻
Thank you for another Great Video 👍
Great video as always Thanks for sharing
18650s and 21700s are the same chemistry, with the same power density. The latter just has about half again more total volume, so you get more amp hours for the same voltage, and no more connections to wire. However, it sidesteps the problem of stepping up the parallel value in integers. 10x 18650s weighs more than 5x 21700s, but they keep intersecting at their common denominators, so 15x 18650s is no different from 10x 21700s. One dud will bring down the whole pack, of course, so there may be some additional balancing advantage to having fewer cells. If pouches were a single cell, there would be a greater advantage, but they are also stacks, because the voltages have to be added. Maybe someone will invent hexagonal cells at some point, but airflow or even heatsinks might not be something we should overlook.
I have a corded drill and circular saw that my father owned
These battery tools are great if you're on a jobsite, but I work in my shop and don't need the portability. Longevity & durability are what I'm looking for.
Corded tools are getting much harder to find
I can never find the giveeaway links when Jeff talks about them.
It's in the video details under the video, just click "see more"
Correct me if I’m wrong. But I have a weird suspicion that one factory is making batteries for a bunch of different companies and slapping their names on them. I’d love to get to the bottom of it.
I dont think makita was the first to Lithium tools.. I had panasonic 14.4v in the early 2000s. They are only in JP and EU. Makes sense right, since they were the go to for original lith batteries.
Btw, is 2024 and all my 14.4 batteries are still alive. Crazy yeah
Lipo cells are safe if they are good cells, and you maintain them properly.