Talk about a blast from the past. I used to run a mill just like that one when I worked for the Boeing company. Did a lot of work with it. We had several in the shop. I used to do a lot of clevis machining with a three wheel cutter setup. Ran a one inch arbor and one .250 wide center cutter with two .500 wide outside cutters. One pass turned them into a lolly pop shape.They were turned into a spherical shape on the cnc lathes then given to us. That was in 1986 through 1999. I left when the plant closed. 36 years in the business I retired last year. Love those old Cincinnati machines. Tough as nails...
Hilarious beginning, losing a vice handle has happened to me 10,000 times. I'm a hack machinist, but I know this kind of thing humbles even the best machinists.
I worked for a company called Apex Tool & Cutter Co. Inc. Except for forging the blanks, turning the blanks, cutting the keyway and serrating the blades and blade slots...I milled the blade slots, made the blades, did the ID Grind on the drive hub, hammered the blades into the cutter body, did the OD grind on the blade loaded cutter, did the width grind on the blade loaded cutter, then sharpened each blade with 6 grinds to a final Hairline edge sharpness. We made cutters from 6" diameter to 20" with HS or Carbide blades. I did an 18" counterbore once with carbide blades. I did helical cutters also. Had 6 Horizontal millers running at the same time once...timing was everything. Loved that job.
Hey Josh. The bend in long arbors is really caused by a stack error in the spacers. Had this problem at one time. run your spacers though the surface grinder. Need to make sure they are all squared and parallel. The arbor will bend which ever way the stack is misaligned when you tighten the nut.
A very very good comment... Same thing with precision spacers in the spindle... The stackup of spacers and bearings has to be dead parallel and square to axis of the spindle, otherwise when tightened down and seated, the clamping pressure bends the spindle shaft, or in this case the arbour shaft... A few tenths of deviation in the spacers parallelism can bend the shaft a lot, or a little, it depends where the error is, and is it cumulative or caused by a single spacer out of whack... Robin Renz has a very good explanation of the issue in his spindle rebuild video if i recall right... Its a simple issue, yet a nasty one as fuck, especially in running parts like this... From increased wear of the bearings(even the arbour has its own bearing, so the issue still applies, just differently), to random runout that can have you chasing the source for an eternity, especially if you got a rebuilt machine with a dicky spacer, and your spindle runout is definitely not in spec with the bearing standard... Its why spindles are assembled in a clean room... A damn speck of dust can be enough to cause deviation and runout in such high precision stackups... Sure, you can crush a speck of dust, but its still there, existing in its compressed form, offsetting your stack by 1/4 of a single ten-thousandth to one side and messing shit up... Check the arbour shaft itself with 2 vblocks on a plate, then check the spacers with a comparator setup and a micrometer of 1 micron resolution(2.5 finer than 1 ten thou), marking blue on the plate and all that good shit... If the shaft is bent, well, i would make a new one, but you can try to bend it back... The spacers i would consider lapping on both ends after ensuring their complete parallelism... The thread on the end of the arbour can also be cut crooked to the axis of the shaft, so try and check how well does the nut seat with a feeler and such, as that can cause identical issues as with wonky spacers, but harder to detect, and usually not considered, as with spacer wonk, given that threads have some clearance and are considered self locating and correcting in a way, but that only goes so far... But kudos for using oil as coolant... much better for the machines than water based dreck...
I need a rack, just on 18" long, and am going to do it in the lathe. 1" centerless ground 4140, M3 #1 gear cutter and make my own spacers. That SQUARE end, bit is an easy thing to "NOT SEE". Thanks for the heads up. (I'm making my own Arbor Press.)
Hey Josh, Good recovery. At least you didn’t start off with a 3/4” cutter going for a 5/8” slot. You do get the most out of your beautiful old machines. I laughed when you said that you kept taking this job because you got to use the Cincinnati. Thanks from the other side of Lake Superior.
Love watching the old mill chugging along. Maybe if you could capture the smokey shop air it could be bottled like an air freshener for us old timers to spray in our workshops. Love the smell of cutting oil in the morning 😊. Thank you and take care.
My wife would have me designing and building a whole shop air filtration system and wouldn't permit the use of any machinery until there was no smoke and no odor remaining. It's bad enough to be doing that for my class 4 laser cutter/engraver instead of simply routing the exhaust outdoors. I'm glad my wife isn't in charge at the EPA.
Doing it right . . . . the second time. Sorry had to say it. I can see why you love using that mill, the thing is awesome and so is your work. Thanks for showing your human side in another great video.
Love the logo on the side of the machine, "Done right the first time" 😂 Good video though, nice to see someone show the actual reality of machining, and not the absolutely perfect, edited videos that RUclips is littered with.
and the whole time i am thinking it is just me that lays things down and forget where i put it! lol i am with you on tools missing when i just had them!
You're very fortunate to have that horizontal milling machine. Years ago, I set up a work cell of 5 machine tools to be operated by one person. The configuration eliminated the need for two machine operators while still not overworking the lone operator remaining, and it wouldn't have worked without a horizontal mill in the mix. The horizontal mill performed an operation on 24 parts in one pass as they came off the automatic screw machine before further processing on a vertical machining center. This horizontal mill not only saved a lot of time but more than paid for itself by the savings on end mills for the operation previously performed on the VMC.
Nicely done Josh, quick tip with the paper, use a cigarette paper eg Rizla, and stick it to the part with a little oil, once the tool catches and moves it away, you are 1 thou' off, works every time
I make many mistakes as a landscaper and often have those what the hell moments, nobody else to blame but me. It’s usually because I’m tired or stressed, sometimes rushing to beat the weather. I’m so glad you don’t edit out your very rare errors, makes it so much more real. I love watching the videos you put out, thank you Josh 🙏
This guy is the best on RUclips for machining. Also Mr. Pete. I don't like that annoying guy who complains about comments and then disables them because he is annoyed. People have a right to say what they feel. I can't recall his name but he does videos on using fixture tables for everything.
Great stuff Josh. I really like your videos. Thankfully, you have managed to keep it real, and haven't become a shop window for product placement. Long may this continue.
Thanks. I will be taking sponsors, but only if it's something I can use and only if it's actually good. But, I won't make infomercials. I may use and mention the product, but never push it.
Thank you, thank you!! I've only just started the video but the losing the vise handle was absolutely awesome! I can't tell you how much better I feel now, it was like watching a video of myself! I do that very thing so often that I worry I'm going into early onset dementia. Hats off to you for having the humility to show that. Thanks again. GBD
Thanks, Josh. Maybe its time to make your own arbor. Might be cheaper in the long run, than having to continue to buy used ones. Just a thought. And I would love to see you make your own. Have a good weekend and don't work too hard.
That is some impressive cutting. I do like how all the experts seem to know how to do the job faster or better then you like it’s your first day in a shop
Nice work Josh. I really like these Old Machines. The Cincinnati seemed to run and cut smoother after the belt change. I use to run a Large Cincinnati Knee Mill. It was a Hog!! Thanks for sharing. 👍
Josh, it is easy to straighten an arbor. A pair of V blocks and one or two indicators and a press is all you need to bring it back to within .003'' run out. Great video as usual. Get some rest as tiredness makes you go in any and every direction. Keep the machining videos coming! I love them. Thanks for sharing. God Bless.
Nice to Conner is helping taking load off you by helping with camera work, he got some really good shots. Great video like always Josh, thank you for uploading! 👍👍
Seeing all that oil flowing down over the part really takes me back. Even now I can still smell the Moly Dee that we used when threading and tapping. I'd go home at the end of the day and my wife would say "You stink!". With all that oil in the air, I didn't have to use Brill Cream.
I do no machining myself but enjoy seeing the process. Thanks for another interesting video. I marvel at the work done with hand tools by the workers in the centuries before us. Then came the manually operated power tools. Still amazes me. It is sometimes called "working with your hands" but there is a huge amount of brain power needed to make the hands do what they do.
Traditional milling at its best, before machine vices, the bar would be over length, and two holes drilled in each end, and the "Tuning Fork" clamps used. Then cut off ends, you still can see some old parts with the holes left in. Excellent work Josh.
One of those little horizontal mills has always been on my wish list. We had a similar job in here a few weeks ago, not having a horizontal mill we put it on the big vertical (#4 Cincinnati) and ran a solid carbide endmill with compressed air blast to clear the chips out. Made a hell of a mess (chips everywhere within 10' of the mill) but it plowed through fast. On the other hand we used up a $150 endmill on the job and I'll bet your tooling cost for this job was substantially lower.
I've had those days and there are more of them the older you get. Paint tools bright colors. Mark the sizes on cutters. One of the few perks with getting old is that you can hide your own Easter Eggs.
Josh, Keith Fenner has several videos from a few years ago about how he straightens marine shafting. That arbor is basically a shaft with a lump on one end, so should succumb to the same straightening method. Keith uses a torch to heat a spot on the shaft, then a water+air hose to cool the shaft back down. Pretty much all you should need is a couple of V blocks, a torch, and the water/air nozzle, and a bit of practice.
Someone else commented on a different approach. Basically checking all of the spacers for squareness. If a few are off, it will bend the shaft as tightened. Yours and his comments are both being explored. Thanks.
I have a Harrison H/V mill which sounds exactly like yours when it is H mill cutting, the grunt grunt grunt sound! The problem is that H mills are very good at hogging metal off fast, and so operators tend to up the feed and speed to the maximum, which is usually the setting just below the one that bends the arbor! That is why all used H mill arbors are bent!! Phil UK
Hi Josh. Great video. I have spent my entire career in this trade starting from the machines you have in your shop to 5 axis programming. A respectful suggestion. Think about a Proto Trak conversational programed mill. It would fit well with the type of work you are doing and you are obviously smart enough to learn how to run it well. Great work my friend.
@TopperMachineLLC I've been in the trades for better than 6 decades as a pipe fitter, construction worker, aircraft mechanic, power plant electronics tech, and winding up as a marine electronics tech with a university. Even my family was foul-mouthed. Swearing is easy, but learning not to swear is hard work. Takes practice. You like a challenge, so you've got this.
As an operating business, I just don't have the time to make one. It is far cheaper to buy a few more until I find a good one than it is to lose production time making one.
It's definitely better to have a mess up where you take out two little material compared to too much material. One is much easier to fix than the other and as a machinist I can honestly say I think we've all had these days where something like this has happened nobody's perfect we all make mistakes the difference is when people own their mistakes like you did. It shows integrity. You didn't just make up a lame excuse for it
You should order some drill rod and make yourself a new arbor. One of the best things about being a machinist is that if you need tooling and can't find one or buy one, you can always make one.
Josh, I don't think your arbor is bent too much. These cutters have a habit of not running true to the center. Shimming or, better, regrinding the center hole to the next arbor size will help you. You can see the run out of the cutter in the footage corresponding with the cutting teeth. Or buy a new cutter that will also help. Best! Job
That was an interesting and unusual job. Just as well that the wrong cutter was undersized and not oversized, or you would have had to toss the job out and start again.
Dont feel bad Josh, i went the other way once and ran a .812" cutter through my part thinking it was .750". A bit loose for what we needed. Yup, bad day. Must have been a monday...😅
Okay shop project. My ocd kicks in and says get those two vices ground to the same height sir. Or even milled would probalby be fine for most work. Sure would save time down the road once you know you can depend on them being a matched set I would think? Always glad to see one of your posts.
I would probably replace them before reworking them. They are just cheap Shars vise's. Not really worth reworking. They served their purpose and owe me nothing.
That machine is a BEAST! It was fun to watch. Maybe at some point you can show a video of your apprentice's work... the end results, or even the work in progress if you only show the machine views in the video, without him in it.
Hey, watched Keith Fenner true up prop shafts to a thousand or so. If you've got a hydraulic press and some rollers you could take a whack at straightening one of your arbors.
Wow, that was a lot of material to remove and to think there is more milling to do. I am glad that your helper is still with you and that he is still learning. Great job on the part and on the video. Thanks for letting us into your shop.
Josh, yes that was a dodo moment, praise God the mistake was in your favor, had you needed the 5/8” but started with the 3/4” THAT would have been a big issue. As to the issue with the cutter sound not being constant, check your spacers for burrs or nicks that can cause deviation of the arbor when you tighten it. I had that issue years ago when using a brake service lathe.
Thanks. Someone else suggested that very thing. I'll be investigating that soon. It wouldn't take much and with each one having something off, it would escalate quickly. Never considered it.
If there is a problem with finding an arbor and you have an apprentice. Maybe you can set them up to make you you a brand new one using the used ones as a reference. I know that will motive the heck out of them at such an interesting job. I often have to fix things at my workplace and very often I'm having to engineer up a solution. Weather it's it involves machining or a guard for a machine, there's always something that I find and think that when there is an apprentice, it would be a very interesting test of their skills and allows me to see how they would approach it. And weather or not if they ask for help if they're stuck on something
Its so nice to see someone run straight oil in their machines as coolant instead of that water based snot... With pure oil there is absolutely no rust induction chance... You dont have to wipe shit off, you dont have to use wd40, no issues whatsoever... Its not as good as coolant, but its a million times better for the machine in general... I tend to use mineral oil in form of atf that i can get for as low a price as possible... Picking up 20 liters of cheapest atf at mechanics, with their mechanics price reduction nets you the cheapest oil that you can get, if we arent speaking of stealing waste oil from shops and restaurants... Atf is much less viscous than what you are using, but its good oil that doesnt turn acidic really that quick... All the best! Steuss
A great way to start off my Saturday. I am wondering, though, in your spare time... Have you tried to manufacture a new arbor? It would be fairly challenging, but I presume other Cincinnati owners might pay well for a new one.
Isn't that bar going to flex down in the middle of cut (between the two vises)? If it did flex would a machinist jack in the middle help with that? And it seems to me, that at one point or another you'll just "Topper" a whole new arbor, making it yourself so you know it's straight. The vertical slotter and the horizontal mill are my two favorite machines.
Good question, and no it did not flex because it still had the full sides to support. Like a piece of channel iron, it's quite strong. But a hack couldn't hurt either.
what would happen if you cut with the spindle in reverse direction ? would it sag in the middle ? it looked to me like it would lift or push the piece.
AAAAHAHAHAHA, that is EXACTLY the same angry curse filled conversation I have with myself at least once a day when I set something down and it maliciously, and deliberately, disappears on me for no good reason at all. Could have been looking in a mirror...
I used to gang mill a lot back when I started in this trade. Ever since leaving that shop, I've looked for jobs that I could do it again. Someday I will find a reason to set up and cut something.
I've only watched a few of your videos and they make me feel right at home. When you were changing the belts on the Cincinnati, that looks like a Monarch model 18 CBB, am I correct, or close perhaps?
I have this exact job because I can produce it faster than a local CNC shop was. I did the first batch in half the time it took them and with better results on the inside finish.
It certainly can with a CNC. You'd have to take 2 or 3 passes but it can be done faster. However these are not being mass produced in the hundreds or thousands, its best to take your time, not mess up, and keep the customers paying more as they usually have deep pockets. Here in the US machining was a race to the bottom with companies trying to make the best parts in the least time for the lowest costs and as a result our wages have become especially bad as machinists. I could comfortably do this faster with our prototrak at work. I could use HSSCo too with flood coolant and run it way faster. I'm still putting down the entire day for the job on my timesheet though :)
![[240529] 동국대학교 축제 | 데이식스 성진•원필 | Welcome to the show](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9TAXzIaqp3I/mqdefault.jpg)
Some days you're the dog and some days you're the fire hydrant.
Ya still got it done right the first time.
Talk about a blast from the past. I used to run a mill just like that one when I worked for the Boeing company. Did a lot of work with it. We had several in the shop. I used to do a lot of clevis machining with a three wheel cutter setup. Ran a one inch arbor and one .250 wide center cutter with two .500 wide outside cutters. One pass turned them into a lolly pop shape.They were turned into a spherical shape on the cnc lathes then given to us. That was in 1986 through 1999. I left when the plant closed. 36 years in the business I retired last year. Love those old Cincinnati machines. Tough as nails...
Hilarious beginning, losing a vice handle has happened to me 10,000 times. I'm a hack machinist, but I know this kind of thing humbles even the best machinists.
I heard the noise from the bent arbor so I was glad you noticed it as well.
I worked for a company called Apex Tool & Cutter Co. Inc. Except for forging the blanks, turning the blanks, cutting the keyway and serrating the blades and blade slots...I milled the blade slots, made the blades, did the ID Grind on the drive hub, hammered the blades into the cutter body, did the OD grind on the blade loaded cutter, did the width grind on the blade loaded cutter, then sharpened each blade with 6 grinds to a final Hairline edge sharpness. We made cutters from 6" diameter to 20" with HS or Carbide blades. I did an 18" counterbore once with carbide blades. I did helical cutters also. Had 6 Horizontal millers running at the same time once...timing was everything. Loved that job.
I really appreciate how you show all of your mistakes. It makes your videos more relatable. You see, I i too make mistakes!
I'm not perfect!
Hey Josh. The bend in long arbors is really caused by a stack error in the spacers. Had this problem at one time. run your spacers though the surface grinder. Need to make sure they are all squared and parallel. The arbor will bend which ever way the stack is misaligned when you tighten the nut.
Great point. Thank you for suggesting this. I'll be investigating this.
A very very good comment... Same thing with precision spacers in the spindle... The stackup of spacers and bearings has to be dead parallel and square to axis of the spindle, otherwise when tightened down and seated, the clamping pressure bends the spindle shaft, or in this case the arbour shaft... A few tenths of deviation in the spacers parallelism can bend the shaft a lot, or a little, it depends where the error is, and is it cumulative or caused by a single spacer out of whack... Robin Renz has a very good explanation of the issue in his spindle rebuild video if i recall right... Its a simple issue, yet a nasty one as fuck, especially in running parts like this... From increased wear of the bearings(even the arbour has its own bearing, so the issue still applies, just differently), to random runout that can have you chasing the source for an eternity, especially if you got a rebuilt machine with a dicky spacer, and your spindle runout is definitely not in spec with the bearing standard... Its why spindles are assembled in a clean room... A damn speck of dust can be enough to cause deviation and runout in such high precision stackups... Sure, you can crush a speck of dust, but its still there, existing in its compressed form, offsetting your stack by 1/4 of a single ten-thousandth to one side and messing shit up... Check the arbour shaft itself with 2 vblocks on a plate, then check the spacers with a comparator setup and a micrometer of 1 micron resolution(2.5 finer than 1 ten thou), marking blue on the plate and all that good shit... If the shaft is bent, well, i would make a new one, but you can try to bend it back... The spacers i would consider lapping on both ends after ensuring their complete parallelism... The thread on the end of the arbour can also be cut crooked to the axis of the shaft, so try and check how well does the nut seat with a feeler and such, as that can cause identical issues as with wonky spacers, but harder to detect, and usually not considered, as with spacer wonk, given that threads have some clearance and are considered self locating and correcting in a way, but that only goes so far... But kudos for using oil as coolant... much better for the machines than water based dreck...
I just run mine bent.
@@andyknappenberger7512 Mines been bent to the left, all my life. Done some good work over time.😁😁😁🤣
I need a rack, just on 18" long, and am going to do it in the lathe. 1" centerless ground 4140, M3 #1 gear cutter and make my own spacers. That SQUARE end, bit is an easy thing to "NOT SEE". Thanks for the heads up. (I'm making my own Arbor Press.)
Hey Josh, Good recovery. At least you didn’t start off with a 3/4” cutter going for a 5/8” slot. You do get the most out of your beautiful old machines. I laughed when you said that you kept taking this job because you got to use the Cincinnati. Thanks from the other side of Lake Superior.
Love watching the old mill chugging along. Maybe if you could capture the smokey shop air it could be bottled like an air freshener for us old timers to spray in our workshops. Love the smell of cutting oil in the morning 😊. Thank you and take care.
My wife would have me designing and building a whole shop air filtration system and wouldn't permit the use of any machinery until there was no smoke and no odor remaining. It's bad enough to be doing that for my class 4 laser cutter/engraver instead of simply routing the exhaust outdoors. I'm glad my wife isn't in charge at the EPA.
@@gaiustacitus4242Tell her that its the smell of money being made!
🎉
JIM 😂😂😅😂
Doing it right . . . . the second time. Sorry had to say it.
I can see why you love using that mill, the thing is awesome and so is your work.
Thanks for showing your human side in another great video.
We all make mistakes. At least I show mine and admit to them, unlike many other youtubers. Stay tuned, there are more mistakes coming.
😁 Can hardly wait!
Love the logo on the side of the machine, "Done right the first time" 😂 Good video though, nice to see someone show the actual reality of machining, and not the absolutely perfect, edited videos that RUclips is littered with.
and the whole time i am thinking it is just me that lays things down and forget where i put it! lol i am with you on tools missing when i just had them!
You're very fortunate to have that horizontal milling machine. Years ago, I set up a work cell of 5 machine tools to be operated by one person. The configuration eliminated the need for two machine operators while still not overworking the lone operator remaining, and it wouldn't have worked without a horizontal mill in the mix.
The horizontal mill performed an operation on 24 parts in one pass as they came off the automatic screw machine before further processing on a vertical machining center. This horizontal mill not only saved a lot of time but more than paid for itself by the savings on end mills for the operation previously performed on the VMC.
Nicely done Josh, quick tip with the paper, use a cigarette paper eg Rizla, and stick it to the part with a little oil, once the tool catches and moves it away, you are 1 thou' off, works every time
I make many mistakes as a landscaper and often have those what the hell moments, nobody else to blame but me. It’s usually because I’m tired or stressed, sometimes rushing to beat the weather. I’m so glad you don’t edit out your very rare errors, makes it so much more real. I love watching the videos you put out, thank you Josh 🙏
There's a big difference in how an operating shop operates versus a hobby shop.
This guy is the best on RUclips for machining. Also Mr. Pete. I don't like that annoying guy who complains about comments and then disables them because he is annoyed. People have a right to say what they feel. I can't recall his name but he does videos on using fixture tables for everything.
Thank you. I appreciate your support.
That's some good, honest-to-God milling right there.
Glad to see someone using real oil for cutting. Those old machines were set up for oil and coolant just doesn’t seem right. Good work.
I prefer oil in this machine because it isn't used frequently. Coolant evaporates off and goes rancid, oil does not.
If only there was a machine shop that could fab up a new arbor for the mill, hmmmm. 🤐 Just giving you a hard time there. Great work as always.
Great stuff Josh. I really like your videos. Thankfully, you have managed to keep it real, and haven't become a shop window for product placement. Long may this continue.
Thanks. I will be taking sponsors, but only if it's something I can use and only if it's actually good. But, I won't make infomercials. I may use and mention the product, but never push it.
@@TopperMachineLLC PLEASE if you go down the A**m*9 route, be up front about what's provided to you, and what's purchased.
Thank you, thank you!! I've only just started the video but the losing the vise handle was absolutely awesome! I can't tell you how much better I feel now, it was like watching a video of myself! I do that very thing so often that I worry I'm going into early onset dementia. Hats off to you for having the humility to show that. Thanks again.
GBD
Thanks. The sad part is that it wasn't even staged. I seriously couldn't find it.
i searched thirty minutes for a pair if pliers that were in my back pocket
It's always in the last place you looked
@@kkoch666hopefully
Thanks, Josh. Maybe its time to make your own arbor. Might be cheaper in the long run, than having to continue to buy used ones. Just a thought. And I would love to see you make your own. Have a good weekend and don't work too hard.
It would be cheaper to buy several more than to take time away from paying work to make one. I'll eventually find a good one.
@@TopperMachineLLC Good point and 'nuff said! Thanks.
That is some impressive cutting. I do like how all the experts seem to know how to do the job faster or better then you like it’s your first day in a shop
the "experts" probably have never really done it either.
Комментарий в поддержку канала и ролика, а также труда мастера.
Thats for sharing the vid on the Horizontal Mill, always great to see cool machines like this!
Every day is one of those days
thanks for sharing your adventures....cheers from Florida, Paul
What a day sort of like the ones I have all the time. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
That was great... Makes my soul happy... ✌😎
Nice work Josh.
I really like these Old Machines.
The Cincinnati seemed to run and cut smoother after the belt change.
I use to run a Large Cincinnati Knee Mill.
It was a Hog!!
Thanks for sharing. 👍
These old Cincinnati mils will cut. I just wish I had a No 3 or 4 horizontal with the vertical attachment.
@@TopperMachineLLC I believe I ran a #3 Vertical Knee Mill.
Big power.
Ran a big shell mill in it.
Have a great day Josh.
GREAT JOB MR
Nice work, Cool mist may not product as much smoke and be better for your lungs. It also does a great job of lubricating and cooling.
done that before JT one day i couldnt find my glasses and they were on my face excellent video
Josh, it is easy to straighten an arbor.
A pair of V blocks and one or two indicators and a press is all you need to bring it back to within .003'' run out.
Great video as usual. Get some rest as tiredness makes you go in any and every direction.
Keep the machining videos coming! I love them.
Thanks for sharing.
God Bless.
You sir are very talented.
Regarding your apprentice -
“Save one life, you save the entire world”. Thank you.
Nice to Conner is helping taking load off you by helping with camera work, he got some really good shots. Great video like always Josh, thank you for uploading! 👍👍
we are working on getting him more acclimated to camera work. I have to give him some direction, but mostly its just him.
Thought I was the only one who had one of those days 👍🏻
Them hot millings flying about...
Good video
☹🇬🇧
Seeing all that oil flowing down over the part really takes me back. Even now I can still smell the Moly Dee that we used when threading and tapping. I'd go home at the end of the day and my wife would say "You stink!". With all that oil in the air, I didn't have to use Brill Cream.
Your wife has those "nice" comments too. I'm glad - I am not alone.
You're cool Josh Hopper. Enjoy your channel.
Topper
Man that was some pile of chips 🙂 Enjoyed 👍
I do no machining myself but enjoy seeing the process. Thanks for another interesting video. I marvel at the work done with hand tools by the workers in the centuries before us. Then came the manually operated power tools. Still amazes me. It is sometimes called "working with your hands" but there is a huge amount of brain power needed to make the hands do what they do.
Traditional milling at its best, before machine vices, the bar would be over length, and two holes drilled in each end, and the "Tuning Fork" clamps used. Then cut off ends, you still can see some old parts with the holes left in.
Excellent work Josh.
Wow, scary familiar with the vise handle and other tools as well.
One of those little horizontal mills has always been on my wish list. We had a similar job in here a few weeks ago, not having a horizontal mill we put it on the big vertical (#4 Cincinnati) and ran a solid carbide endmill with compressed air blast to clear the chips out. Made a hell of a mess (chips everywhere within 10' of the mill) but it plowed through fast. On the other hand we used up a $150 endmill on the job and I'll bet your tooling cost for this job was substantially lower.
Thanks for all of your wonderful videos! I learn a lot from them!
I've had those days and there are more of them the older you get. Paint tools bright colors. Mark the sizes on cutters. One of the few perks with getting old is that you can hide your own Easter Eggs.
Good stuff
Just letting it eat. What those mills love yo do!
Josh & Connor lovin your content. keep it up!
Josh, Keith Fenner has several videos from a few years ago about how he straightens marine shafting. That arbor is basically a shaft with a lump on one end, so should succumb to the same straightening method. Keith uses a torch to heat a spot on the shaft, then a water+air hose to cool the shaft back down. Pretty much all you should need is a couple of V blocks, a torch, and the water/air nozzle, and a bit of practice.
Someone else commented on a different approach. Basically checking all of the spacers for squareness. If a few are off, it will bend the shaft as tightened. Yours and his comments are both being explored. Thanks.
hello josh it's is randy and i like yours video is cool thanks friends randy
I have a Harrison H/V mill which sounds exactly like yours when it is H mill cutting, the grunt grunt grunt sound! The problem is that H mills are very good at hogging metal off fast, and so operators tend to up the feed and speed to the maximum, which is usually the setting just below the one that bends the arbor! That is why all used H mill arbors are bent!!
Phil UK
Hi Josh. Great video. I have spent my entire career in this trade starting from the machines you have in your shop to 5 axis programming. A respectful suggestion. Think about a Proto Trak conversational programed mill. It would fit well with the type of work you are doing and you are obviously smart enough to learn how to run it well.
Great work my friend.
That's groovy man...sorry. Thanks for reminding me how I loose things too. Liking your videos
Nice vídeo 📹 👍. The first machine did I work on it was cincinati .
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hi there nice work john
Josh- I think we are about the same age, and I am beginning to forget things too. Crazy this journey. Good video. ----Doozer
Just turned 41. Already feel like I'm falling apart. Lol
Enjoy watching your channel. Not so much the swearing. That's a hard to break habit. FWIW
I'm pretty mild compared to a lot of channels.
@TopperMachineLLC I've been in the trades for better than 6 decades as a pipe fitter, construction worker, aircraft mechanic, power plant electronics tech, and winding up as a marine electronics tech with a university. Even my family was foul-mouthed. Swearing is easy, but learning not to swear is hard work. Takes practice. You like a challenge, so you've got this.
Hey Josh, would love to see you make a new arbor if you have the time. I know you are a busy man but that would be a great video I would love to see.
You could always make your own arbor like keth Rucker
As an operating business, I just don't have the time to make one. It is far cheaper to buy a few more until I find a good one than it is to lose production time making one.
It's definitely better to have a mess up where you take out two little material compared to too much material. One is much easier to fix than the other and as a machinist I can honestly say I think we've all had these days where something like this has happened nobody's perfect we all make mistakes the difference is when people own their mistakes like you did. It shows integrity. You didn't just make up a lame excuse for it
You should order some drill rod and make yourself a new arbor. One of the best things about being a machinist is that if you need tooling and can't find one or buy one, you can always make one.
Use 1144 or stressproof steel. It is much stronger and easy to machine.
Im just glad its not only me…..
We all have these moments. Seems to get worse for me as summer ends.
I can hear the difference in cutting with the new belts.
It was getting full torque to the cutter. Made a difference in finish also.
Josh, I don't think your arbor is bent too much. These cutters have a habit of not running true to the center. Shimming or, better, regrinding the center hole to the next arbor size will help you. You can see the run out of the cutter in the footage corresponding with the cutting teeth. Or buy a new cutter that will also help. Best! Job
That was an interesting and unusual job. Just as well that the wrong cutter was undersized and not oversized, or you would have had to toss the job out and start again.
Dont feel bad Josh, i went the other way once and ran a .812" cutter through my part thinking it was .750".
A bit loose for what we needed. Yup, bad day. Must have been a monday...😅
Lol right at the start, is my everyday Mr. Topper.
What about stress relief? I know CRS often twists with a bar that long and a cut that deep.
There was no deflection in the bar. Usually when you take out the middle it holds true. It is really bad when you take the outer surface.
Okay shop project. My ocd kicks in and says get those two vices ground to the same height sir. Or even milled would probalby be fine for most work. Sure would save time down the road once you know you can depend on them being a matched set I would think? Always glad to see one of your posts.
I would probably replace them before reworking them. They are just cheap Shars vise's. Not really worth reworking. They served their purpose and owe me nothing.
That machine is a BEAST! It was fun to watch. Maybe at some point you can show a video of your apprentice's work... the end results, or even the work in progress if you only show the machine views in the video, without him in it.
Stay tuned. His work and hands are in an upcoming video.
Hey, watched Keith Fenner true up prop shafts to a thousand or so. If you've got a hydraulic press and some rollers you could take a whack at straightening one of your arbors.
Wow, that was a lot of material to remove and to think there is more milling to do. I am glad that your helper is still with you and that he is still learning. Great job on the part and on the video. Thanks for letting us into your shop.
Josh, yes that was a dodo moment, praise God the mistake was in your favor, had you needed the 5/8” but started with the 3/4” THAT would have been a big issue.
As to the issue with the cutter sound not being constant, check your spacers for burrs or nicks that can cause deviation of the arbor when you tighten it. I had that issue years ago when using a brake service lathe.
Thanks. Someone else suggested that very thing. I'll be investigating that soon. It wouldn't take much and with each one having something off, it would escalate quickly. Never considered it.
Good ol flood boy
If there is a problem with finding an arbor and you have an apprentice.
Maybe you can set them up to make you you a brand new one using the used ones as a reference.
I know that will motive the heck out of them at such an interesting job.
I often have to fix things at my workplace and very often I'm having to engineer up a solution.
Weather it's it involves machining or a guard for a machine, there's always something that I find and think that when there is an apprentice, it would be a very interesting test of their skills and allows me to see how they would approach it.
And weather or not if they ask for help if they're stuck on something
Very instructive - thanks. Aren't all horizontal arbours bent straight (ahem!) out of the factory?
Oof, the second that vice handle "disappeared" in plain view you just know the mischief gremlins have it out for you that day.
Hey Josh. I wonder if a shop that straightens automotive crank and cam shafts could straighten your arbors?
got that chip of the week didnt ya
Almost. I've got more tricks up my sleeves
Since it is a repeat job, do you record the feed and speed rates so you do not have to try new values each time?
I actually do, but I was attempting to do it differently to begin with. It didn't work out and I was back to my old way.
My luck would have been the 750 cutter on the arbor for a 625 slot. (I've got a Hendy #3 mill in my shop)
Its so nice to see someone run straight oil in their machines as coolant instead of that water based snot... With pure oil there is absolutely no rust induction chance... You dont have to wipe shit off, you dont have to use wd40, no issues whatsoever... Its not as good as coolant, but its a million times better for the machine in general... I tend to use mineral oil in form of atf that i can get for as low a price as possible... Picking up 20 liters of cheapest atf at mechanics, with their mechanics price reduction nets you the cheapest oil that you can get, if we arent speaking of stealing waste oil from shops and restaurants... Atf is much less viscous than what you are using, but its good oil that doesnt turn acidic really that quick...
All the best!
Steuss
A great way to start off my Saturday. I am wondering, though, in your spare time... Have you tried to manufacture a new arbor? It would be fairly challenging, but I presume other Cincinnati owners might pay well for a new one.
Isn't that bar going to flex down in the middle of cut (between the two vises)? If it did flex would a machinist jack in the middle help with that? And it seems to me, that at one point or another you'll just "Topper" a whole new arbor, making it yourself so you know it's straight. The vertical slotter and the horizontal mill are my two favorite machines.
Good question, and no it did not flex because it still had the full sides to support. Like a piece of channel iron, it's quite strong. But a hack couldn't hurt either.
what would happen if you cut with the spindle in reverse direction ? would it sag in the middle ? it looked to me like it would lift or push the piece.
interesting that the kearney trecker uses two round supports and the cincinatti uses a dovetail
Better a 5/8" cutter when you need 3/4" rather than the reverse situation.
Did you time those belts for more even wear and better longevity? :-)
It happens to me all the time, had something in your hand then can't find it.
do you think it could be the spacers when u tork them down putting a bow in it
It sure is. I have been doing some measuring since this and have the problem narrowed down.
AAAAHAHAHAHA, that is EXACTLY the same angry curse filled conversation I have with myself at least once a day when I set something down and it maliciously, and deliberately, disappears on me for no good reason at all. Could have been looking in a mirror...
I run a machine like this at Madison Machine in Adrain, MI
Have you ever had a need to use a whole stack of cutters? I know that would be very expensive, but I'm wondering if that need has ever come up.
I used to gang mill a lot back when I started in this trade. Ever since leaving that shop, I've looked for jobs that I could do it again. Someday I will find a reason to set up and cut something.
I've only watched a few of your videos and they make me feel right at home. When you were changing the belts on the Cincinnati, that looks like a Monarch model 18 CBB, am I correct, or close perhaps?
It's an 18CU.
I got a rule of thumb , if I put it down I lost it already 🤣🤣
If it were my job the cutter would have been seven eighths and I would have had to order and wait on belts.
Super video. Im just asking. Could that be done faster with a endmill? All the best from Norway
I have this exact job because I can produce it faster than a local CNC shop was. I did the first batch in half the time it took them and with better results on the inside finish.
@@TopperMachineLLC I have not much knowledge so I asking. Thanks for answere
It certainly can with a CNC. You'd have to take 2 or 3 passes but it can be done faster. However these are not being mass produced in the hundreds or thousands, its best to take your time, not mess up, and keep the customers paying more as they usually have deep pockets. Here in the US machining was a race to the bottom with companies trying to make the best parts in the least time for the lowest costs and as a result our wages have become especially bad as machinists.
I could comfortably do this faster with our prototrak at work. I could use HSSCo too with flood coolant and run it way faster. I'm still putting down the entire day for the job on my timesheet though :)
At least it wasn't a 7/8" cutter on the arbor from the last job!
Would you be able to machine a new arbor for the horizontal mill?
not worth the lost revenue time
@@TopperMachineLLC I can understand that.
Do you use your horizontal mill a lot. Does it bring in work that the vertical mill can't do.
It gets used more and more. It is handy for so many things that are just not easy on the vertical.