An interesting fact: the strategy Nomos used, that is starting in-house modification and then production of an ebauche movement, has also been used, more than 50 years prior by Seiko, which started by modifying and then producing in-house Moeris movements, which they later made larger and more accurate, and whose rough design was also used by the much more high-grade Grand Seiko movements which were Observatory Chronometers, and even as late as the early 2010s some Credors still had movements with the same basic gear train configuration and which looked roughly similar.
Hi Bill, Great video, I definitely see similarities in Oris and Nomos, but I think Nomos offers a much more refined watch and Oris a much more sporty offering. I would definitely always go for a Nomos before going for an Oris, but I am a bit biased :D Cheers, Abdul
Thank you for this educating video! Overall I find it interesting whenever someone gives me insights in watches that offers a good movement, without costing a fortune. God bless you and your loved ones, Bill!
Oris also has a good own Calibre 400 (since a couple of years) that they use in many watches now...a very modern calibre ,reasonably priced with long power-reserve that would probably be a new differentiator to Nomos. I'm new to this channel and very happy to follow your interesting presentations.
Whoaaa Alexandre! What a great movement. I somehow missed that one, but with a 5-day reserve, it's a little beauty! Thanks for letting me know! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci I think there is an interesting head-to-head direct competition between watches with ORIS 400 vs Baume & Mercier Baumatic calibres! Same positioning, same price points and similar new/modern manufacture calibres. Regards, Alexandre
Would ou agree that those modern Calibres (like 400, Baumatic etc...) put to shame all the similar existing ETA (or older manufacture calibres) on value for money metric?
Could just be bad luck, but I find my Nomos DUW 4101 to be quite fragile. Recently bought and have to send it in for repairs! That’s the name of the game though. Great vid as always!
Hi Bill, Oris are now phasing out the calibre 110 series in favour of the calibre 400 family. This is because they received a lot of feedback about it taking too long to wind it to fully wound. Also they did it as a little test, to see what the reaction from the industry was and because it was so successful they started development on the 400 series. Another great thing Oris is doing is they’re going to keep selling both movements. The plan is to sell at 2 price points. Say £1700 for an Aquis with sellita base or £2700 with calibre 400, so they don’t price themselves out of their own market. They’re truly one of the best entry companies along with Nomos.
I really particularly enjoyed this video as I already own a Nomos Tangente (DUW3001) and I am considering a Oris BCDP As my next watch so I’m very much interested in both of these brands. I always like to learn as much as possible about the watches I own or are about to own. I very much appreciate these detailed descriptions of the movements, particularly of the Nomos as I’ve been a bit confused about the differences between the original ETA movements and the Nomos versions. You really clarified this for me. Keep doing the great work Bill!
Itsalgud, the base is actually a Peseux 7001 taken over by ETA. It's a solid time only movement and serves as the based, greatly modified by NOMOS for a lot of their watches ... it's best known for its thinness. Take care, Bill
I have much more respect for Oris in designing their in-house cal 400 variants than Nomos. Nomos had to find a way to differentiate themselves in the market and to justify their high price, and what they did was essentially put lipstick on a pig with adding on their own doodads and machine finishing parts of someone elses work(eta).
Whoaaa Chiam! That's cold. I think that Nomos slowly worked its way into some good movements all their own ... the Lambda being a real example. Oris did the same. Take care, Bill
Hi glad you mentioned this about the stop seconds. I’m not crazy about it either as I don’t think it adds much value (was probably critical during WW2 when watched had to be synchronised). Other than Seiko 7s movements, though, do you know any other movements that avoid it?
Kele, of course it's important to have accuracy, but splitting seconds at the cost of a hammer on your balance just isn't it for me! My favorite watches have the blasted things, though. Take care, Bill
Many thanks Bill. Loved the historical perspective on the movements. I however own a nomos with an alpha movement inside. Now after purchasing i saw you rave about the DUW movements and made me regret my purchase. What do you think of the Alpha movement: can it be considered in house? is it any good? do you like what they did to it? or do you only think highly of the DUW movements?
I also have a Nomos with the alpha calibre. I think I read somewhere it’s a Peseux 7001 clone, not actually from an ebauche, so they use the exact design but make it themselves, maybe less the balance assembly. Similar to Sellita cloning ETA movements
I am not arguing the movement is bad but Oris movement isn't exactly In-house though. They are in-house designed. Oris designing the 400 movement themselves sound really questionable. However, we are sure that they definitely didn't claim in-house made which is definitely not made by them.
@@watchartsci My best guess is La Joux Perret who was known being able to do amazing movement for low price and I don't think Vaucher would have done this design. However that is a likely one. I think that there are some secret movement developers who made it which is more likely. Some of us know that Breitling and Rolex movement are designed by the same people but we don't know who they are. As for the production, I don't know who made it. I can't find any tracks or any articles mentioning them.
@@tippykaffu4047 Do you have a reference that shows Oris is not making its own movements or that Breitling and Rolexes are using the same movement maker? Sounds interesting. Take care, Bill
The only one of those 3 you have listed that actually manufactures the movement, in their own facility, with almost no outside supply, is Nomos. The others are designed by, not necessarily produced by. Point of difference.
@@watchartsci Almost all Swiss made watches source their parts from elsewhere, like China and just put the movement in the case and voila "Swiss made".
@@SacreDro Some may Car guy, but the high end ones do not-Check out companies like 'atoKalpa' (www.atokalpa.ch ) who makes 100,000s hairsprings for the Swiss watchmakers and 'Precision Engineering'' (www.precision-engineering.ch/?lang=en )who make the Strausmann hairsprings.) So by "almost all" you mean "almost all the cheap brands" in Switzerland.
An interesting fact: the strategy Nomos used, that is starting in-house modification and then production of an ebauche movement, has also been used, more than 50 years prior by Seiko, which started by modifying and then producing in-house Moeris movements, which they later made larger and more accurate, and whose rough design was also used by the much more high-grade Grand Seiko movements which were Observatory Chronometers, and even as late as the early 2010s some Credors still had movements with the same basic gear train configuration and which looked roughly similar.
Thank you Andrei! That's very interesting. Take care, Bill
Hi Bill, thanks for the comparative metamorphosis of these brands. Your channel is always interesting and educational as well as cheerful ! 👌❤
Hi Bill, Great video, I definitely see similarities in Oris and Nomos, but I think Nomos offers a much more refined watch and Oris a much more sporty offering.
I would definitely always go for a Nomos before going for an Oris, but I am a bit biased :D
Cheers,
Abdul
Thank you for this educating video! Overall I find it interesting whenever someone gives me insights in watches that offers a good movement, without costing a fortune. God bless you and your loved ones, Bill!
Hey Thomas! Thanks man! Take care, Bill
I have both. Club Sport Neomatik with in-house DUW 6101 and Oris Aquis Date Calibre 400. Love the Nomos as an office watch and the Oris for leisure.
You have the best of both worlds, PG! What next? Take care, Bill
Oris also has a good own Calibre 400 (since a couple of years) that they use in many watches now...a very modern calibre ,reasonably priced with long power-reserve that would probably be a new differentiator to Nomos. I'm new to this channel and very happy to follow your interesting presentations.
Whoaaa Alexandre! What a great movement. I somehow missed that one, but with a 5-day reserve, it's a little beauty! Thanks for letting me know! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci I think there is an interesting head-to-head direct competition between watches with ORIS 400 vs Baume & Mercier Baumatic calibres! Same positioning, same price points and similar new/modern manufacture calibres. Regards, Alexandre
Just to chip in. The baumatic calibre is made by ValFleurier and is also sold in panerai and iwc as an in-house movement. Exactly the same movement
@@Jacob-rv5oj wow thank you for this precision...I never had an idea to check that!!
Would ou agree that those modern Calibres (like 400, Baumatic etc...) put to shame all the similar existing ETA (or older manufacture calibres) on value for money metric?
Could just be bad luck, but I find my Nomos DUW 4101 to be quite fragile. Recently bought and have to send it in for repairs! That’s the name of the game though. Great vid as always!
I suspect that is bad luck. Their watches are very robust.
Hi Bill, Oris are now phasing out the calibre 110 series in favour of the calibre 400 family. This is because they received a lot of feedback about it taking too long to wind it to fully wound. Also they did it as a little test, to see what the reaction from the industry was and because it was so successful they started development on the 400 series.
Another great thing Oris is doing is they’re going to keep selling both movements. The plan is to sell at 2 price points. Say £1700 for an Aquis with sellita base or £2700 with calibre 400, so they don’t price themselves out of their own market. They’re truly one of the best entry companies along with Nomos.
That's too bad, Jacob. The 400 is looking good, but I like the 110 series. Take care, Bill
I really particularly enjoyed this video as I already own a Nomos Tangente (DUW3001) and I am considering a Oris BCDP As my next watch so I’m very much interested in both of these brands. I always like to learn as much as possible about the watches I own or are about to own. I very much appreciate these detailed descriptions of the movements, particularly of the Nomos as I’ve been a bit confused about the differences between the original ETA movements and the Nomos versions. You really clarified this for me. Keep doing the great work Bill!
Itsalgud, the base is actually a Peseux 7001 taken over by ETA. It's a solid time only movement and serves as the based, greatly modified by NOMOS for a lot of their watches ... it's best known for its thinness. Take care, Bill
Thank you for the research and history!
You know it's fun for me Javi! Take care, Bill
I like your deep diving in caliber's history👍. Thank you very much.
My pleasure David! Take care, Bill
This was a great video Bill, Congratulations on finding such amazing information.
Thanks Bill and hope to know your opinion on Czapek seven days 🙏
I have much more respect for Oris in designing their in-house cal 400 variants than Nomos. Nomos had to find a way to differentiate themselves in the market and to justify their high price, and what they did was essentially put lipstick on a pig with adding on their own doodads and machine finishing parts of someone elses work(eta).
Whoaaa Chiam! That's cold. I think that Nomos slowly worked its way into some good movements all their own ... the Lambda being a real example. Oris did the same. Take care, Bill
Nice video mate 🌎🏌🏽♂️🥃🇺🇸
Thanks Tim!👍 Glad you liked it! Take care, Bill
Great review Bill thanks 🙏
Bill you got Otis on your mind ,you might as well play some if his tunes 🤣🤣❤
MRG, I've just been 'Sittin on the Dock of the Bay' instead of paying attention ... Take care, Bill
Hi glad you mentioned this about the stop seconds. I’m not crazy about it either as I don’t think it adds much value (was probably critical during WW2 when watched had to be synchronised).
Other than Seiko 7s movements, though, do you know any other movements that avoid it?
There are many that do not have this. Some from Patek, some Vacheron. The VC OVerseas does not have hacking seconds.
Kele, of course it's important to have accuracy, but splitting seconds at the cost of a hammer on your balance just isn't it for me! My favorite watches have the blasted things, though. Take care, Bill
SW300-1 is a replacement of the thinner ETA movement 2892.
Thank you André! Take care, Bill
Many thanks Bill. Loved the historical perspective on the movements. I however own a nomos with an alpha movement inside. Now after purchasing i saw you rave about the DUW movements and made me regret my purchase. What do you think of the Alpha movement: can it be considered in house? is it any good? do you like what they did to it? or do you only think highly of the DUW movements?
I also have a Nomos with the alpha calibre. I think I read somewhere it’s a Peseux 7001 clone, not actually from an ebauche, so they use the exact design but make it themselves, maybe less the balance assembly. Similar to Sellita cloning ETA movements
@@Jacob-rv5oj that s not what Bill seems to be saying in his video however.
I am not arguing the movement is bad but Oris movement isn't exactly In-house though. They are in-house designed. Oris designing the 400 movement themselves sound really questionable. However, we are sure that they definitely didn't claim in-house made which is definitely not made by them.
Tippy, who are you saying made the 110 Series for Oris? Thanks Bill
@@watchartsci My best guess is La Joux Perret who was known being able to do amazing movement for low price and I don't think Vaucher would have done this design. However that is a likely one. I think that there are some secret movement developers who made it which is more likely. Some of us know that Breitling and Rolex movement are designed by the same people but we don't know who they are.
As for the production, I don't know who made it. I can't find any tracks or any articles mentioning them.
@@tippykaffu4047 Do you have a reference that shows Oris is not making its own movements or that Breitling and Rolexes are using the same movement maker? Sounds interesting. Take care, Bill
In your opinion who makes the best in house movement between Christopher Ward, Nomos and Oris?
WM, I like them all ... a 10-day hand-wind is impressive though. Take care, Bill
The only one of those 3 you have listed that actually manufactures the movement, in their own facility, with almost no outside supply, is Nomos. The others are designed by, not necessarily produced by. Point of difference.
@@JayandSarah JT, you're saying Oris doesn't make its own movements? Where did you find that information? Thanks, Bill
@@watchartsci Almost all Swiss made watches source their parts from elsewhere, like China and just put the movement in the case and voila "Swiss made".
@@SacreDro Some may Car guy, but the high end ones do not-Check out companies like 'atoKalpa' (www.atokalpa.ch ) who makes 100,000s hairsprings for the Swiss watchmakers and 'Precision Engineering'' (www.precision-engineering.ch/?lang=en )who make the Strausmann hairsprings.) So by "almost all" you mean "almost all the cheap brands" in Switzerland.