Nidhogg & Jormungandr - The Old Gods
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- I've made a statement before: "Thor fighting Jormungand is a Christian motif and not pagan". In this video I will show you my arguments trying to prove that. This video is as long as a serpent. Check below the subjects of this video to help you guide throught it:
0:00 - Introduction
05:41 - Evolution of Norse Myths
10:35 - Níðhöggr & Náströnd
26:07 - Jörmungandr term meaning
34:20 - Smiss (witch-stone) Picture Stone
39:38 - Þórr fishing Jörmungandr & Altuna Runestone
44:35 - Ardre Image Stone (VIII)
49:17 - Other cases and Conclusion
The videos about Gandr within Seidr can be watched here:
1) • #1 Spinning and Weavin...
2) • #2 Spinning and Weavin...
All my social-media networks you can find by following this link: linktr.ee/ArithHarger
#Nidhogg #Jormungand #Thor
If you want to read my academic work, I speak of in this video, about whales and fish in Scandinavia, you can read it here : www.patreon.com/posts/whale-in-old-and-32171412 "The Whale in Old Norse Religion and Scandinavian Medieval Literature", unlock it for $3 and you will also have access to 100+ papers, essays and academic works, plus 200+ posts including behind the scenes. Cheers! Have a great day!
@Alien Alien he never said he was or he wasn't. Arith expressed that he isn't concerned in showing his spiritual/religious beliefs but more concerned in trying to be neutral as much as possible so that his own perceptions won't influence the historical truth
Yes, I remember well that as a good teacher, Mr. Härguer lets his listeners form their opinions, and that is Freedom of Speech. As intelligent beings, we must be open to knowledge, not only the one with whom we identify, but also, to the contrary, this is the challenge that Häguer leaves us.
Every day we learn, sometimes improving, sometimes to accept change and rebuild our point of view!
@Alien Alien First of all, he is clearly pagan but being a pagan and speaking about Scandinavian stuff doesn't make hin Asatru. In fact, you haven't been paying attention at all because in several videos he said he isn't Asatruar at all. Secondly, you seem to make a confusion between the study of comparative mythologies and with universalism. The study of comparative mythologies is essential to understand religions of the past in the academic field. He is presenting information on an academic perspective, not exposing his own spiritual beliefs. And you speak as if universalism was bad, you are the typical asatruar who lingers in the same bs that was being invented in the 19th century. Have a good day.
Have you ever done a video on Surtur and Muspellheim? If not, it does seem like a good follow up to all of this talk on demonized entities.
@Alien Alien why would Asatru be genetically based? Its like say a person who isn't jew cannot understand kabbalah, yet many study and understand. you know your stance is called spiritual materialism and is the lowest manner of interpretation. its usually used by those who need to feel special, so they pick fights and make silly claims to validate there lack of understanding by trampling others. maintaining a level of ignorance to preserve self identity, or just stupidity. genetics is really complex, how your understanding of epi-genetics or do you understand the mechanics in which enzymes cut and paste protein sequences, how that changes in relation to the location of the body, what about mitochondrialdna, and how that effects development? which gene codes for asatru,? can it mutate or be methylated , if so, do you suddenly forget your spiritual understanding, is that the reason why the Christians changed the mythology, it was a genetic mutation, cause no where is there evidence for this? to say its genetically based shows you are either just making your self feel better, or just used concepts you think people are afriad to challenge you on. I think you in no position to start judging argument forms, when your base claims are foolish on the face of it. o and use your intuition more, and listen more and you can see the angle the speaker is coming from, its not hard young-ling
This dude is so underrated
If only he made his hair look all crazy and did more speculation about aliens and Vikings he would have a show on the history channel.
Agree 100%
Absolutely
AN HOUR VIDEO ON NIDHOGG & JORMUNGANDR, YOU MADE MY DAY!!!!! Thank you sir.
0:00 - Introduction
; 05:41 - Evolution of Norse Myths ; 10:35 - Níðhöggr & Náströnd ; 26:07 - Jörmungandr term meaning ; 34:20 - Smiss (witch-stone) Picture Stone ; 39:38 - Þórr fishing Jörmungandr & Altuna Runestone ; 44:35 - Ardre Image Stone (VIII) ; 49:17 - Other cases and Conclusion
Thank you, that helps a lot :)
@@kokkoanya5105 yes I thought this would be useful to walking around the video hehe
Mr. Härger, if you don't mind me asking, what sources did you get this information from? I would like to do further research into this topic. Thank you in advance.
The Indo-European archetype of the masculine thunderer/smiter slaying a serpent monster is found in many different places at many different times (Indra, Apollo, Jupiter, Perun, etc) . I don't disagree that the serpent was probably a prehistoric fertility symbol supplanted by new gods of a more warlike, masculine culture, but I think it's even older than Christianity.
As with the sumerian aryan horned deities. Specifically Inanna and two serpents.
Even Egyptian, Bast-Ra, the Cat with two daggers slaying the serpent representing Apep
I used to live near a 'sleeping dragon' called Arthur's seat in Edinburgh. I could see the sleeping dragon from my window. I studied this dragon which I initially viewed as an obstacle in my path. Then one day the dragon awoke in me.
I went on to study a bit of dragon mythology and came to the understanding that in the westernized 'Christian' world, the dragon was demonized and it was something within the human psyche that had to be slayed or destroyed or something we needed to rise above in order to reach heaven. I contrasted these ideas with the Chinese view of the dragon who revere both serpents and dragons. It was then I understood that christianity was rejecting the aspects of ourselves that are linked to what they viewed as our lower drives, ie. our basic instincts which we call upon to survive, reproduce and flourish. The Chinese view dragons as powerful cosmic forces that enhance our survival instincts on earth and this enhances our understanding of nature and the cosmos. The dragon is a living entity/force to be celebrated. It appears our ancient 'Norse' ancestors had similar and different ideas to the Chinese. Many ancient belief systems viewed the serpents as symbols of life, transformation and rebirth.
I believe the dragon is a cosmic force and the earth is a cosmic entity. So what you say makes sense. Plus, DNA resembles two serpents similar to the caduceus which is interesting considering it is a symbol used in modern medicine. The serpent like spirals that can be found on pagan stones resembles the life force of the universe ie. milky way as well as the life force on earth.
Thank you, Arith, for sharing your ideas with us.
Gandr + Alfar = Gandalf /Magic Elf, You gotta love that Tolkein was an Old English professor.
The name Gandalf come up verbatim in the poetic edda. Don't remember the name of the story, but it was the list of dwarves
Actually means Staff Elf and is a kenning for Odin, from which Tolkien got the whole Grey Old Wanderer motif.
Also, Álfar is the plural form. The singular is Álf(r).
I am no Tolkien expert but there is a historical king of Alfheim in Bohuslän in Norway/Sweden whose name was Gandalf, and regarding his clan there are myths about a certain Alf (a name in the royal family of Alfs) becoming Alf den ljuse - Alf the fair, a benevolent creature of light. I would guess that Tolkien knew about this myth, but it is a very obscure one.
Thor and Jörmungandr killing each other is much deeper metaphor of natural forces and civilization being in constant conflict.
You are an inspiration to me. I've been searching my Scandinavian "danish/german" norse pagen heritage. Out of all I've watched you give the best description. Thank you for all you do
totally agree.
Things have been so corrupted. We have been taught to stamp on our own deity. But with such enlightened information, hopefully not for always. Thank you for this knowledge.
Yes. Christianity has done alot of damage to our cultures. Whenever I read about Zeus affrairs with other creatures in this world, I see nothing more than christianity twisting Zeus stories
Your videos are so helpful to decolonizing my worldview. Thank you for all the truth you share in such a thorough way.
It's 5 in the morning for me. Even though I want to watch this video so baddly. And hour long omg that's awesome but it's way to late/early to do so. So it is saved for when I awaken. I can't wait to listen.
Well, this was 6h ago, you awake now? :P
Another fantastic video. I feel like this is healing a trauma I didn't realize I had.
Respect. You are very wise beyond your years. You shine bright and like a morning star. My brother.
Love the video very well done and answers a lot of questions that have been bugging me for some time thank you so much. love your channel.
this explanation of the Christian imposition of a negative view of the dragon fits well for the Nordic context, but how do you explain the similar story of Indra killing the water serpent Vitra, found in the Rg Veda (dated to approximately 1, 500 BCE)?
I would say Indra killing Vitra, along with Zeus killing Typhon, indeed was them doing so, and that Vitra, Typhon, Kingu, and Leviathan should be thought of as different than jormangandr
@@goat_man144 oh really? How?
perfect, I finally get the idea of Jormungandr, he is a fertility and life symbol, part of the protection of midgard
This channel is insanely good you are so talented at putting things into words and making them accessible to all
Thank you!!! Been looking forward to this video for a long time. 🐍✨
How do you explain all of the countless dragonslayer/serpent slayer myths found in most of the Indo-European descendant cultures and religions? In most of them, the god or hero slays the dragon/serpent and then uses the body in some way to bring about life.
I respect your perspective, but it seems more likely to me that this is a very old Indo-European root myth, rather than Christian influence. Yes, as you say, the serpent is related to the energy of the earth and to swirling, sinuous vitality. And it is this vitality that, much like with Yimir, is distributed through dismemberment after the slaying of the serpent. Refer to the myth of Indra and Vritra. In it, most interestingly, when Indra slays the three-headed dragon he does so to release all the waters of the world that the dragon had claimed.
Releasing of the waters can also be analogous to the blood of the serpent, which we see as being powerful and full of vitality. Note, also, that Jormungandr is said to hold or retain waters, as you yourself touched on.
The myth of Indra and Vritra is only one of the many serpent slayer myths that descend from the original Indo-European culture. It is for this reason that I believe that this is an instance of PAGANISM influencing CHRISTIANITY, instead of the other way around.
Even older than indo-european is the Assyrian/Akkadian story of Ninurta/Marduk fighting a Serpent/Dragon. Also the very indo-european hittite story of Teshub slaying the serpent Illuyanka. I think Arith's theory needs some revision..
I thank you dearly for your sharing of this beautiful tradition and knowledge. Although I am from south America, it is amazing how similar the ancient traditions are in their understanding of the universal powers, it is possible to link up the nordic concepts to those of the mayans the aztecs the muiscas and many more. Hail the old Gods !!
Really, really appreciate this video and your thoughts and research on Nidhögg and Jörmundgandr - I always felt that there must have been so many more stories and aspects regarding the snakes and dragons of the Norse than the chaotic monstrous ones - specially in comparison to other mythologies.
Your work and channel are such great sources which expands the Norse-Germanic world beyond the well known stories of the Gods and Goddesses - it helps me broaden my own path and to explain interesting Norse/pagan aspects for others!
Stort tack/Obrigado!
i have a wooden necklace amulet of jörmungandr and to me it is a symbol of being at piece with nature. it always upset me when people say that my amulet is "inaccurate" and that no vikings would ever have worn "the enemy of thor". now i understand why it bothered me so much, thank you for explaining and making me more sure of my faith
This some of the best info I've ever heard. Armed with this info I can now better understand all other mythologies as well. And root out the Christian B.S. that has damaged my psyche. Thank you sir!!!
Hello Arith, thank you for the stupendous amount of content you provide. In a way I'm glad that you still haven't talked about Vánagandr yet (unless I'm mistaken and haven't seen that video yet) and his siblings, and how Odin technically broke his family apart. I am still exploring, wondering, imagining the truth and potential truths to that story. I don't like getting influenced but really enjoy synchronicity and agreements in thoughts, I'd really enjoy a video on that if you are interested.
Again, thank you.
Thank you for making this video!
Amazing video! Thank you, This knowledge sunk in deep.
I really enjoy your lectures !
Thank you for this video. It's really necessary
Fascinating insight 🍁
Will you ever write a book Arith? I would really love if you wrote a book!
I thank you dearly for your sharimg ofcthis beautiful tradition and knowledge. Although I am from south America, it is amazing how similar the ancient traditions are in their understanding of the universal powers, it is possible to link up the nordic concepts to those of the mayans the aztecs the muiscas and many more. Hail the old Gods !!
Mind. Blown. Thank you!
Love your flag in the background ..so beautiful
Im at the part about Niðhogg in the video, and I was wondering if I may propose a thought on it.. you mentioned your doubt that the name was carried over accurately, but what if his name was more so a play on words.. maybe not so much about stripping their honor, but one who strips their human form in order to move on anew
i want you to know that i am grateful for your work.
Thank you for letting me know that. Much appreciated. Have a wonderful day.
Thank you for your insight.
Fascinating! These teachings are amazing
Awesome great research shared
I like your views on these subjects. They have a feel of logic. Would you mind coming on a podcast to explore the concepts further?
Great video! I agree Arith, it is fishy that in such a short time line of 200 years perhaps less the whole art and story line appears perverted and sadly we only have lots of the evidence in the lands already of converted once pagan or still partial pagan/Christian mix. Goes to show you what wealth, land, a new wife and 2-4 generations of family raised in foreign places can do to ones roots and if we did not have the not so much older evidence we would not even see the change happen. Makes me think of the far far distant past and beliefs, Gods, Goddesses perhaps even whole religious systems being common place for 1000s of years to be erased as fast as the way's of the old land vs that of those living in it for such a short time being like sun in moon in their story line, and art. Without stone to carve it on, it would be dust and not archaeological evidence of any kind.
Winged serpent = feathered serpent in American tradition. Amazing how much overlap there is.
The chinook of the pacific northwest had Tattoosh for the thunder god. They also adorned their tepees, canoes, and jewelry of him. The amount of overlapping through all the pantheons is yuuuugggeeeee.
This kicked ass, thank you 🙏🏻
Aboriginal Australian people have a lot of stories about great serpents.Usually called rainbow serpents.I have never thought of Jorganmand as evil , just a force of nature,both creation and destruction.
Thank you. Your great videos have improved so much. The snake, the Naga is of huge transcultural importance. So clearly spoken, so focused and passionate.
The Naga is a good concept to understand the Serpent Cult predating the indo-european religious expressions seen in Hinduism ^^ In Hinduism there is a mixture between the old and the new, or rather, the pre-indo-european and pre-indo-iranian religions based on earth-cults, and the indo-european and indo-iranian religions based on Sky-deities.
Arith Härger Well, I spent all together 1 year in Nepal to learn about tribal shamanism over there and the NAGA really has pre-hinduistic origins. My Nepalese friends came to Europe every year and diagnosed many problems because NAGA, ANCESTOR SPIRITS and others are disrespected and feeling angry. Himalaya has preserved many ancient traditions and Nepal was never colonized. Naga comes in all colors and moves in all the 3 worlds. It moves in lightning, a tsunami, our veins, a rainbow, lightning, a creek, a river, a landslide, muddy fertile soil.... Naga loves milk, eggs and especially nettles (very holy plants)...
QUE sabiduría ,madre mía ¡ gracias 👏👏👏
@
Arith Härger Dude... Your Portuguese Accent is Perfect, I must congratiolate you for that.
Wow. This helped so so much.
Also in Finnish paganism, the god of thunder and also fertility Ukko (Also called Perkele like Slavic Perkunas.) sacred animal was the snake.
thank you for this important contribution to creating a broader context for these stories and characters!
Love your stuff kick on love it
Absolutely good video !
Great video, again! Love the way you research things. Love the depth. You have the ability to show subjects from a completely different angle. Or go deeper. Great job again! Thank you so much for all your effort. I know it's time consuming. Please, go on. Every minute of your work is worth listening to and valuable.
Greetings from Slovenia, an old Venetic, Windish, (Slo)Vendish or whatever you wanna call it, country.
Hi Arith Härger keep up the great work, it is much apreciated. Please do some vids about Greek paganism, specifically about Orphism and the worship of Phanes (Zagreas,Eros). Also about the great goddess Hekate and the importance of 3. These are both traditions that started in northern Greece and spread across the land but got buried under the rubble
Thank you so much! This video is so full of information and enlightening analysis that I will watch it again, just to make sure I have heard and understood it all. Obviously you have researched and interpreted a great deal, so thank you for your time and energy, as well as your intelligent and clearly-expressed thoughts on a complex subject.
Thank you for this video. It has helped me understand so many things. I have listened to it 3xs. I am sure to listen many more so not to miss any details!
Thank you so much!
Stumbled upon this video when researching material for my comic
the snakewich of the smissstone bears a huge resemblance of the famous snakegiodess of the minoans.
well spotted ! didn't think of that one before. The one with a snake in each hand, right?
@ where did u find the tapestry behind you?
awesome video
Arith, me gustaria saber el nombre del poster que tiene tras de Vd en este video. Muchas gracias por compartir este conocimiento ancestral. Fuerte abrazo desde España!.
Something that I have always thought about and always felt alone on the subject.
Thank you
Oh my goodness! Ty for this! This makes so much more sense ...
The constellation Cygnus the swan/goose/vulture/duck ect. Sits in the branches of world tree from which she sprang...thru the tree, the dark rift, the valley of the shadow of death, the cosmic womb, which is just at the beginning of the Milky Way, the flowing river of life which spills forth from the womb stretching all the way to Ophuichus/ the serpent bearer, who holds a snake where the roots of the tree lay....kundalini...as within, so without...
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽💞💓✌🏽
Great Videos. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and thoughts.
Could anybody explain to me the symbol with the two people n the Background.
I've seen that before, but I don't know its meaning.
Hey Arith. just stumbled on your videos recently but greatly enjoying. Part of my last name is Orm because my great great great grandfather was a strange danish artist who named his children Orm and Hel after Lokis children and the name has been passed down. The theory in my family is that he kind of considered him to be a trickster god himself. This video was really interesting to me though cause I have really relied on Jormungander and thors duels for storys involving my namesake. Do you have thoughts on Jormungandr as Lokis son? is that a christian construct too?
in my family the casual translation for who Orm is is World Serpent. Definitely not just huge monster.
I want to sleep so badly but I cant stop watching.
It is crazy but I saw what I would describe as the world serpent in a dmt trip before I even started any spiritual/magical awakening type stuff. It was black and electromagnetic and it seemed to be able to make a tentacle appear out of nowhere constantly and everywhere and would then touch its influence upon someplace on the Earth. I felt that it was those little nudges given to obscurity (or the ether) to allow something (or forbid--for that matter) to be brought into being. I was brought there by the little blue friends on the polar opposite side of life where everything we do here is balanced over there by some very generous folks. When they took me to this massive snake I was filled with awe and humility. It looked me right in the eyes and I felt love in a stronger sense than I can ever remember feeling in any moment. I was able to get an "I love you" out before starting to cry like a baby. That moment changed my life. This sounds the most like any symbolic representation I have ever heard regarding what I witnessed that night.
Looking forward to the Underworld / water video.
with your knowled1ge and beard you remind me of Mimir from God of War lol. Thank you for this video I enjoyed it a lot! might be my favorite one so far
awesome job
Good video its good to see someone with some original facts its sad to see many cultures have been corrupted and given a bad view in the modern day
Wonderful exploration. What do you think of the other explanation I have heard for Thor ‘fighting’ Jormundgandr - that Jormungandr is representative of fate which circumscribes human life and Thor represents human will forces?
Hi, could you please make a video of the rune of tyr?
thank you so much Arith for this video ......as a lover of serpents and all that they represent , it is great that you are enlightening the world with this information ... :) a most enjoyable video my very dear friend :)
You are so awesome
Great video
Excellent discussion, Arith! And thorough as always. Very much looking forward to a video on the importance of water. Takk!
You are great. I like very much your content. Keep doing it please! You are better professor than any one who are in mainstream academia telling lies and repeating politic propaganda. God bless you
You have done well Arith :)
I love your videos, I find them very helpful in my understanding of language, religion and other aspects of Norse and Germanic cultures.
Hi there, throughout your videos (I haven't seen them all yet so forgive me if I am wrong) you generally tend to talk about gandr as the one form of magic. But a close friend was stating that 'gandr' was darker magic, whilst 'galdr' is more pure.
If this is certainly true, then would that make jormungandr slightly more malicious, or make sense giving it is a very spiritual creature?
Thanks for all of your videos they are a great help and very enlightening!
Arith Harger you should create more vids about the worship of the old deities. The Thursattru and Rokkatru paths etc.
Great video again, loved it ! I love the great serpent, so how couldn't i love it ? :)
Thanks lot !
thank you my friend ^^
I had wondered about this subject myself but being new to learning the norse pagan view I hadn't delved into it much. Your videos always give me greater perspective and help me fill in the gaps. Sometimes they give me a whole new view I hadn't even considered. Thanks again!
goodness. thank you. this was a long one and i'm sure you were very tired after making it.
could anyone point me in the right direction of finding readings/videos about the importance of whales in the animistic panorama? That statement Arith made really intrigued me.
Judging buy the thing that says how long the videos are I think this is your longest video I reckon you should try to beat it's in length next time just because we could always use more of your content
Your so intelligent. I'm impressed.
I love the academic view you bring these videos
Last night I cleared, charged, christened and named my new dragon torc. The timing of this (again) excellent video seems to indicate my own timing was good.
Why would you "christ-en" something? To "Christ-en" is to dedicate something to Christ.
christen (v.)
c. 1200, "to baptize into the Christian church," from Old English cristnian "to baptize," literally "to make Christian," from cristen "Christian" (see Christian). Especially to baptize and name as an infant, hence "give a name to at baptism" (mid-15c.) and the general sense of "give a name to" anything, without reference to baptism (1530s). Related: Christened; christening.
Christ-ening is specifically a Christian act that marks a person or a thing as dedicated to Jesus Christ; that's why the first part of the word "christen" IS "Christ."
@@tracieh215 Thank you, you make an excellent point which did not occur to me. Wording is indeed important because it influences thought. I should have said "named" and will do so henceforward.
Such an enlightening video. Thank you, Arith.
Thank you for having spent some of your time to watch it ;)
@ what amazing and fantastic Videos. Thank you so much that you share your knowledge.
May you explain what is the symbol of the two people in the background on the wall? I've seen that bevor but don't know the maening.
Brilliant ,thank you Arith ,your conclusions are well thought out and go to the core of these myths .very well explained ,i enjoyed the video from start to finish . keeping the old stories and tales straight is the key in your work , you have perfectly unlocked the doors of mis- truths and Cristian bias . THANK YOU ,again ...have your self a wonderful day .
10/10 meget meget interesant 🙂
Thank you again for share and always such good detailed explanations dear brother
Oh, this is such important information for the world to know - and I am so glad I found your channel. An understanding of Animism, which predates all religions and paganism, is IMO mankind's best hope for survival. It is not a belief; it is an inner knowing that arises out of the same scientific method of observation, hypothesis and testing we use objectively. I can't imagine a better symbol than the serpent to express the divine life force power of the earth. Thank you for helping me see this!
Can you say what books you used to talk about Jormungandr and Nidhogg? Because in all the books I have, Nidhogg and Jormungandr are creatures of chaos. Thanks for the video
More vids about rokkatru and the rokkr deities would be cool
Where can we find your sources for this video?
New subscriber love your accent
What about baby Heracles/Hercules killing snakes? It was even on ceramics about half millennium before christianity? And Pompeii fresco
I don't mean to be rude, but could you read some of my replies in similar questions in this video? A bit tired today of repeating myself, that's all. In this video I'm specifically focusing on a scandinavian religious context fomented by Christian, but not entirely exclusively a Christian formulation, but just fomented by Christians in medieval scandinavia. It's actually a indo-European religious motif and the clash of that sort of religious mindset and the belief in sky deities when in contact with the pan-indo-european earth-cults/worship. Please, read my other replies. Thank you.
Arith Härger thank you for answering! At the moment I wrote there wasn’t much of a comments. I’ve already read your message, thank you very much for your work!
I had a feeling that was the case! the Vikings (serpent at front of ship) came to Ireland (one of their friends) to defend their faith - not to rape and pillage as Roman history tells us!