Riot May Change League's Skin Rerolling
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2024
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Riot when you get a 0.0067% discount for spending $6000: 😭😭
more like 99% discount for eternity.
yeah seriously, getting a discount literally just makes them more likely to buy more
TBF it's more like a 70% discount, which is really significant when whales make most of the money. Getting free skin shards, spending $15 and getting all the new epic/legendary/prestige skins for a couple rerolls is pretty significant.
@@SlippyLegJones it's not really a 70% discount though because the shard hoarder just paid for the skin years in advance, that's where the 70% went Riot is saying you should pay 70% now, and 100% later on when the skin you want comes out
isn't it more like 8000% to get all skins?
I dont got enough skins to abuse it..
yeah most people don’t that how dumb the whole issue is why does riot care about the whales that much
Why does riot care about people who pay them the most money? It’s truly a mystery.
@@gamera5160 then let the other people that doesn't pay as much leave the game, what is the problem huh? Oh wait... The game will lose it status of most played online game and only 5% of people will in it. But hey, they will pay a lot! But... Will they? What is a point to pay in game no one plays? There is something to think about.
@@protectorlord8054that is exactly what happened to Elsword, they only listened to whales and such a well made game died
Fax
Bro... Just let the people that bought ALL THE SKINS IN THE GAME reroll into rare skins.
They literally already spent zillions
You sometimes get skins for free in free lootboxes.. everyone benefits from the reroll system
I guess the problem is they only create some of these skins for them.
The thing is like Necrit said in the video the odds that someone who has had enough dough to buy all those skins will have more money to dish out are high. Makes no sense from business standpoint why they wouldn't take that money. Why offer discounts to zillionaires. Another point Necrit made was that majority of League players are F2P. In order to run a free game in this day and age the money has to come from somewhere.
And I'm saying this completely unbiased because I hate the modern league and quitted couple years ago. What they probably should do more is give free shit to those F2P players. But in the end whether this game dies or rises will come down to if there are enough people who like playing it. It's not gonna come down to skins or their monetization practices. What people will notice however is that if the game will start bleeding players they'll get more aggressive with their monetization.
@@GoodMrFe "Why offer discounts to zillionaires." because giving benefits to the customers giving you the most support is never a significant cost to your business and only puts a smile on their face thinking you value their support/business with your company. This concept isn't new. When you order a pizza from just about any pizza shop they'll give you rewards points and after your 6th or w/e pizza you get a free one (with a purchase usually). So they're making more money off you in the 6 pizzas you've paid for and give you one for free so technically they made only 5 pizzas worth of money but that's 5 pizzas and very likely means you are a consistent customer they can rely on. So to me the question isn't "why would Riot give discounts to the whales buying all the skins" it's "Why WOULDN'T they do that" because those customers have proven they are bought into your system/service and they like it and they will continue buying stuff from you. Now is the current system of basically deterministically getting the most expensive skins if you own all the other skins in the game a good one? I would say no for Riot but at the same time I think some form of discount for your most loyal customers is not only a good thing to let them know they are appreciated but also to encourage new loyal customers.
@@GoodMrFe well all I know is that the only reason why I'd buy all the skins in the game, is to reroll into the mytic super rare skins. If you remove that part, why would I ever buy all the skins.
Like they make more money off of me buying all the skins once, instead of me waiting for every battle pass and stuff to get rare skin variants I want. Besides, I'd probably still want to get the battle passes and some specific chroma bundles that are limited time because of the exclusive limited time content like special borders on a prestige skin it's release. The discount part is not the thing I care about (though like, it would not be a bad thing to give to someone that spent thousands of dollars on stuff that they don't need to play the game), it's the fact that you won't be able to reroll into the rare skins anymore. Which in turn makes buying everything completely useless.
I will never spend another cent on league if they turn rerolls into discounts.
@@mk_II_ you should probably see a therapist then
People keep saying this whenever Riot nerfs anything related to cosmetics, and yet they still spend money.
@@RetroCube I haven't bought anything since drx world skins so riot can eat cake
@@octoflex so your original threat is completely meaningless
@@RetroCube Well, I said I'd stop buying skins when loot boxes came out. I haven't bought a skin since. I do buy Battlepasses though. But that's all I give them money for these days. No even every pass either, probably every third battle pass that comes out. Most of the time the prestige skin is pretty garbo.
Reroll is genuinely the only thing that keeps me going, if i cant reroll some awful 8 yr old legacy skin, then i cant get better skins, i dont know about other people, but getting a decent skin on a champ i dont play, encourages me to try them out, and with that gone, Im less incentivized to try new new champs.
100% agree, and I it's a BAD system only I am used to it. I don't regularly buy battlepasses so I am very limited to my chest income. Then half the time I open a hextech chest and get a summoner icon I didn't know existed and am pissed off for a few minutes. So if anything they need to go all in and make rerolling and chest opening more rewarding.
Sounds like yall complaining you can’t play a free game and get free everything else
@@martin99110 Thats what league has been tho?
@@martin99110 fuck it then, make the game paid, If you're gonna make that arguement. I'd gladly pay for it if it removed some of the predatory bullshit. Hell, I already paid a fuckton of money to them because of these crap milking people for money systems.
@@FloofersFX 😂 WTH
How did you take what I said and then tell me “go make my own game” do you normally do these mental gymnastics? The game is free and receives free updates.
Just say the player base is entitled 💀.
You’re saying in a free game where you don’t need to buy anything to play. Apparently it’s “predatory” because it doesn’t give you their free product that’s essentially their major source of income.
You’re probably the same person to expect those dev to work for free and update the game for many years. All cause you grinding 5 hours a day on rank.
-Get the biggest budget ever
-Replace all of your talented employees with ai
-Give your players no content
-Introduce 200$ chromas every patch
-Drop skin quality in the toilet
-Stop doing VGUs and ASUs
-Tell the players they can no longer get free skins once a month cuz its "too much"
- Riot 2024
New banker ceo ladies and gents
Don't forget stupid Vanguard. I will stop the game if I won't be able to get around it in a MAC VM or something.
Riot- has issues with income and stability
Riot- drops support for an os and all the players on it thereby losing them as players/customers
They are making Visual Updates, they gave Up in making reworks with two years of Skarner and Abilities rework
@@Morfe02 they gave up after like 2 asu's?
Here is the thing, people just don't trust Riot's decisions will benefit the players. Any changes Riot has done over the years, especially recent ones have been very greedy and terrible for the players, so we would rather be stuck with a confusing system that is meh than having Riot change it for the worse
I wouldn't agree to that.
The monetary system of League of Legends, although it has grown more prominent, is still better than those of many other games. Overwatch2, CSGO and many other have far more predatory system that are less transparent on what you'll get for what price and with what chance. Not to mention the real Gacha games.
Of course, that doesn't give Riot a card blanche to do whatever they want nor does this mean we should be less critical of change they propose.
So, I think we should at least wait to see what changes they propse, before we judge whether they are good or bad.
"terrible for the players" XD
@@lubue5795 "Not to mention the real Gacha games"
Pretty sure Genshin & Honkai make all their probabilities public through the official Wiki or HoYoLAB. But otherwise, you're right.
Can you say that louder for the people in the back
Nothing about the system is confusing or complex.
the "its confusing and lacks clarity" argument for the reroll system is just total bullshit no matter how much I wrap my head around it
Everyone knows it's not about "system clarity"
If they want system clarity then fix the client
It's totally "System Clarity", yup, it's a. uh... Gaelic word! Yup, spelled "M.O.N.E.Y." See? Sys-tem-Clar-It-ee Right there.
That is what is so annoying and is making people angry. It insults the intelligence of the players and points out how much they think us to be fools.
Its so dumb they keep using clarity, WITHOUT ACTUALLY PUTTING/IMPLEMENTING CLARITY
Those are funny words from them when F2P systems 99% ride on obfuscation.
im a new player and no body explained to me how the loot system works, i did not find it confusing at all
I promise you than you aren't using it to its maximum efficacy, because to do so it is confusing
I have been playing since season 3.
Never have I ever even heard of guides or wikis for abusing hextech system.
Never have I ever even looked for it or needed it cuz its simple af.
You don't like the skin and neber gonna use it? Reroll.
You have a shard for a skin you want? Disenchant shards you don't use and get it.
Simple as that.
@@JackBlack-qn7us well its very clear you dont understand how to abuse it which proves the point XD
@@spearki He doesn't understand it for min-maxing and abusing, but he does understand it and if he wanted to abuse it he'd probably understand it. Though based on what he said it seems he isn't interested in abusing it.
I know how to abuse it, and I do abuse it. Though it never crossed my mind that anyone would need to be told how to abuse such a simple system. A 10yo should be able to figure it out near instantly.
Whether you want to abuse the system or not is up to you though. No one HAS to abuse it, and no one in wrong for not abusing or for abusing it.
@@spearki There is no point in min-maxing the system if you are a free to play that doesn't get much loot anyway, if they cared they'd just look it up
wauw I only need to invest multiplke thousands into getting every skin to be able to abuse the system very epic
It targets such a small portion of the player base who is abusing the set up which is silly.
Like damn those guys are literally supporting the game lmao @PlsDontReadThis123
@@PlsDontReadThis123 The issue is those are the players that they can get the most out of and once you have every skin its super cheap to maintain in comparision so they are no longer milking the cows.
@@johnmarshwashere we're bone dry in this economy for real.
Roughly somewhere between 8-10k to be more precise to take 'advantage' of this. Which how many people have done that? Probably less than 100.
his re roll perspective is of a psychotic corporate robot
this
Yeh Riot, you better punish the players that payed the most for the game in all those years...Thats how customer loyalty works
Those players are as addicted to the game as a drug addict. I have no sympathy.
laughable u thought there was ever loyalty from a company that will perma ban you for saying "dogshit" in a T rated game. The only "loyalty" is these people still propping this game up on their 26th account... and thats not really "loyalty" that's pure addiction.
I mean, they say they're doing this because of system clarity, because new players are confused, but what is confusing about "reroll three skin shards to get a random skin"? They just want to milk even more the playerbase, let's be honest
The reroll three skins get one skin is understandable. The whole system idea and how much percentage is for you to get a skin for your favourite champion,or how tf you get an ultimate skin just from a mastery chest which is the same percentage of you rerollin three bs skins and still be lucky to get an ultimate skin. There's so much more then just ye i rerolll i get a skin. Especially for people who don't have skins who are new obviously if they don't buy an account and start from the scratch,you have 0 skins. With this you know that whales who have 90000 skins can just reroll and get the newest skin ,and someone whos new has to pray that he can even get a bs normal skin for his favourite champion which is confusing for people who haven't played league at all and find league a way of just idk playing for fun and collect skins thru the f2p grind.
You know what is confusing? Lootboxes lets remove them KEKW
@theminion6514 I get your point, but wouldn't it be better then to rework the LoL client and change it so as to add descriptions and guides about currencies, reroll systems and all the other mechanics (as well as that useless tutorial)? If you explain clearly how the system works in the first place you wouldn't have to complain about the lack of system clarity.
Maybe there's something I'm missing, if so I'd like to hear your thoughts about this topic!
@@lucrezia5762 the idea is fine,you can put in description when you hover over the loot boxes for percentage on how much you need to get a certain quality of a skin but other than that, everything else is just too much to put in a home page or to have separate section explaining on how the "gatcha" system works. I much rather put an accent on tutorial of macro and micro along with all cheesy mechanics of pro players as an example of how you should play the game rather than to focus on some skins and how much they cost. Instead of complaining how unbalanced the game is since 60 percent of the player base are silver and know 2 champions and have literally no idea what they are doing,maybe they can do some idk rules where people who actually read once in awhile about the champions and the way you should properly play them. Everything else besides the focus on players actually learning to play the game is wasted time on keyboard warrioes who have 0 knowledge to begin with about the game .
@@theminion6514There's nothing confusing about it. Reroll 3 skins for a skin you don't own, simple as.
"I dont like that you get a chance to pay slightly less for the new skins if you already pay a lot for the passes/boxes"
Wahhh people who have already spent 1000s of dollars on our infinitely reproducable digital drawings aren't giving us enough money wahhhhh
I mean they give away the game for free, what else do you want
*they give away a scuffed version for free
@@HighLanderPonyYT The game works as it always has, but with more stuff in it now than the past. Hardly a "Scuffed" version. You can still go in and play SR, ARAM, or customs. We lost a couple game modes that people didn't play, but if you only played for those different modes you probably went to play a different game.
@@entryofemotion12 TT had plenty of people that played it. It just wasn't enough for Riot to not feel the pushback on removing it to focus on Rift. Dominion on the other hand was a dead game mode. Unfortunately. I loved TT and I liked Dominion. I played more TT than Rift. Never really saw the same people, just like in Rift. Though, Dominion.. That was almost entirely bots every time. Which sucked. So I didn't play Dominion much. Especially given that Dominion was like 15min queue times just to end up in a match with bots. TT was just as quick a queue as Rift.
Then we got the RGM's that I wish they'd bring back. Everyone I know that played league back then love Ascension. But Riot won't bring it back. Everyone loves the PvE modes, but Riot won't give us anymore of those.
The game definitely isn't a "scuffed" version, but it is a lesser version of what it once was. Back then Riot cared more about the player experience and enjoyment than they do now. Now they care about what will get more players to pry open their wallets for the least amount of effort possible from Riot. I don't care if they do the prying open player's wallets, I just want them to do the other part that is suppose to go with that in giving players good experiences and enjoyment.
Look at Fortnite, that game has actual events all the time and sells quality skins to their players. That's what Riot use to do. Now they dropped the Actual Events part in place for "This event you'll have the opportunity to BUY this season pass! Yay!", but what is the event? The event is nothing at all. Literally. They don't give map skins, they don't add shopkeeper dialogue, they don't even change ARAM anymore. They do the LEAST amount of work for a company that rakes in billions.
Look at TFT, that game leeches off of Rift for the character models and art. But other than that, they actually put in some effort for making the game fun. Different modes, the augments and such.
Arena is great, really great, but it is the 1 and only thing the Rift team has done in like 6 years. Hopefully they do better in the coming days, but idk.
Was a scuffed version on release, is a scuffed version now. That's a classic F2P trapping. @@entryofemotion12
I understand where Drew is coming from, and he makes some great points overall, but the amount of people who are at the point of being able to target roll for certain skins and abuse the system is pretty miniscule overall. It is an incredibly niche system interaction that a majority of the playerbase will never encounter, and in the grand scheme of most people will still buy the skins and help turn a profit overall. Plus a lot of the whales aren't gonna stop spending money on League, they'll just spend it on passes and on other parts of the game even if it's not as huge an amount.
I do think, Orange Essence could be more useful but for the regular joe it's a nice currency to have for the day you do luckily get a skin you want from the shard system.
They are miniscule in number, but they are massive in the amount of money that Riot receives from them. It's the same as the $200 skins, it's targeted at the top 1% of spenders, but those are the biggest spenders League has. That's where the problem is. They benefit from having spent a crap ton of money before, then just roll 3 random skin shards they got from chests and getting the prestige skins that just came out because they own everything else that are supposed to be expensive, or at least harder to get
True, yet I think that changing and fixing the system will not only affect these few percent.
A big part of this whole discussion is how complicated the system seems where you can get what for the least amount. The "infinite rolling gets a you discount" is only a symptom of that.
So, introducing a new and cleaner system could be beneficial for everybody not just Riot and whales.
@@Pyrrha_Nikos Since the beginning Riot could have made chests never drop skin shards of already owned skins but they wanted more money with lootboxes and now it's coming back to bite at them.
Before they added rerolls I just disenchanted my skin shards. Now I have 100k+ off useless orange essence that I cant spend all off and it never gets anything like the blue essence emporium.
@@evenask So it sits there since 8 years? that's pretty crazy and I smell cap
Rito being greedy, shocker.
"why do people hate riot?" *what riot is doing*
5:27
Rerolling is confusing to new players?
Well they should remove the item shop, it's confusing so much stuff.
And skins in general, you have to learn all the characters and sometimes the characters look differnt. So remove skins.
They should remove ranked, having all these differnt teirs and a ban phase is confusing.
They should remove half the champions, they are confusion.
They should remove jungle, also confusing.
They should remove buying things, adding money can be confusing.
They should removed different wards (you are telling a new players there are green, pink AND blue wards?!)
They should also remove Runes, way to confusing
They should also remove Dragon/Baron, aint no new player understanding thats where teamfights gonna happen
They should also remove Items, how is a new player supposed to know their own item scalling?
They should also remove Fog of War(since wards are now removed this is the next logical step)
They should also remove the emote wheel, no new player is ever gonna find the button for it anyway
ngl if we got the prestige skin as a level 55 reward on the passes, i wouldn't mind buying the passes, because deciding if i want to get A SINGLE skin for a champion i might not even use, or using those tokens on shards for a change of getting a skin for a champ i actually use... is pretty weird
you also have to play day n night to do the passes
Orange essence has a use if you are not constantly re-rolling, as you can just straight up unlock the skin shard if its a skin you dont have. I use my Orange essence all the time to turn my shards into skins since I get so many shards and it cost 3 to re-roll. as in my View the "Rolling" of the skin shard is the same as if you Re-Rolled 3 together since every shard is also Random, except i now have slightly more control as to what skin I want since I can see the Shard im converting.
I haven't bought a single skin since the loot system. Every event, I spend all free battlepass points on getting keys then get S in normal games to get chests. I reroll skins to get that permanent skins. Then I tend to play champions I get skins for. Every year I've gotten like 10+ free skins.
I don't see what's confusing about hextech crafting at all??? My friends started new the other month, explained shit to them about how it worked within a minute, done and dusted.
The issue is that the crafting part is not efficient, its better to never disenchant for orange essence, and always better to reroll 3 skins.
No. If You play a champ or really like a skin buy it with orange essence. I discenchant anything rare or legendary i will never use when i need OE to buy a skin shard. There is nothing inefficient about that @@duranburnett
@@duranburnettIt was okay before they nerfed the amount of essence you get.
I am not a whale, but I think it makes sense that if you bought or somehow got a huge amount of skins then you ought to get the benefits that comes with it!
why
@@supitschillbro Because you have already benefitted the company a lot by coming that far. And that "early" investment is what allows Riot to grow as successful as they did,
@@wowJhil thye literally had to lay off 10% of their staff earlier this year
@@supitschillbro That is not relevant at all, you cannot deny the huge success League has had in over 10 years now. And obviously a lot of their profit is made from skins, and of course a lot from whales.
@@supitschillbroRiots net profit jumped 150.86% in 2023. Theye didn't have to lay off anyone, they did it for shareholder profit. Keep licking them boots
Imagine removing a feature that number one: isn't confusing. number two: can have satisfying results, number three: it's not breaking the game or making you lose money RIOT.
I think them talking about rerolls in the game speaks to their priorities while champions like corki, anivia, and shaco exist in the game without any major visual or gameplay updates since their release.
nah man shaco is fine, just gotta update the visual and skins
Unfortunately, the game is not one thing, and has MANY facets inside it that require work. Also, the people working on the lootbox system are not going to be the same people working on gameplay/visual updates on champions.
Also, Corki has had visual updates. I'm pretty sure Anivia has as well.
@@shouwarma8110 i am not. At least i deserve a ASU. But i would be welcoming an VGU
@@entryofemotion12
Are you drunk or something? Corki and Anivia never had a VGU/ASU/VU. What are you smoking?
@@Shaco. Corki. 4.17 Anivia 3.15. Both of them had texture updates. VGU/ASU/VU are much bigger projects. But they've BOTH had visual updates since release.
To be fair, I have almost passed 1K skins from rerolling, because I clocked on early to that. but I still then Buy the skins for my mains, buy the passes and buy what I want to get it... Like the upcoming Kayle prestige I would probably buy, then keep re rolling
Same. Why do people even care about min maxing this system so much? It's not like they will use all the skins anyway. Just get skins on champs you play and grab some skins for champs you might play. No need to be sweaty about it.
Btw, Im also excited about Kayle prestige skin.
when is this guy getting fired jesus. the amount of people with all skins and abusing the system does not affect the game in anyway shape or form, whether they are hurting riot financial-wise meaningfully to not. if he's a shareholder from the board, sure, they just want more profit, but DOES HE MAKE MORE MONEY FROM removing reroll? NO. DOES HE MAKE LEAGUE A BETTER GAME by removing reroll? NO. Then he's not developing the game for the sake of the game, then he deserve to be fired. period.
A friend of mine owns every single Champ Skin in existence, and he can always easily reroll for the new stuff. So when there is special shop or skin rewards, riot specifically gives him other things (ward skins, icons, emotes etc) to make up, for he can't get anything from those kinds of things anymore. For years it's been like this
Yea and now think what percentage that is? 1%? xd
@@Lutzifalilia 0,000000001%
As far as I remember, HOTS had a great system where you could spend your "orange essence" to buy pretty much any skin whenever you want, with the catch that newer ones were double the price for X month. Could be wrong, but this is how I remember it, and it was great.
The confusing about OE was the "turn into OE" value. I feel like certain rarities of skin are worth more as OE, and others are worth more as rerolls. And then there's the "upgrade to permanent" option, which has a really odd set of values when compared to their "turn to OE" value. There's three different metrics, and you can't tell at a glance which options are the traps.
beginning of the year: Riot having biggest budget ever!
then: time to fire a bunch of our employees and close down riot forge!
Now: F you, we'll skimp on the content you may have so that you'll have to properly whale on our game so that we may make more skins you'll have to whale on!
honestly by now it's just sad, updates riot is releasing each month are getting more and more depressing as this game is turning from a decent one for a free to play players, into a game that only takes whales into an account
Maybe they could make orange essence be spent to fill in the slots of skins in the reroll window, though it would have to cost alot per slot since you can get Ultimate skins too
Ahh, another reason to miss Overwatch 1 loot boxes 😔
it didnt make nearly enough money compared to this system so its obvious they were going this way. We see the same thing in other games Marvel Snap is basically sucking its player base dry right now. Thats what we get when game companies are in the rough times they are now
Well, this update would actually make it closer to Overwatch Loot Boxes. Less focus on rerolls and more on orange essence would pretty much be the dust system from like every game with cosmetics or cards.
bro got stockholmed into liking loot boxes
@@CaiRobinson Riot isn't in rough times though. They may call it rough times because instead of profiting $450b last year, they only profited $400b. The numbers aren't real numbers btw, just an example of what's going on. I am also saying "Profited" for a reason. They are still rolling in the dough and nowhere near "needing" any extra money.
@@CaiRobinson Also, to add onto my other comment. If Riot would give players actual events to be excited about like they use to and like Fortnite still does. Then maybe more people would be willing to give them more money. But Riot cut costs heavily a long time ago for no reason other than they didn't see the need to enrich the player experience anymore because they knew people would still play and spend without them having to put in the effort that they were. Like 6 years ago.
3:40 Can confirm. Used to play with someone who owned every available skin to him. When the new lines came out he’d have to buy a few of the event packs to get enough shards to re-roll for new skins. I think there’s also a Synapse video of Froggen testing it out from a few years back.
I have made it a goal to turn all
me
I appreciate Drew speaking on these issues and what he says is great.
I do not appreciate Riot as a whole company and I do not think anything good will come of this.
I don't mind the skin changes but and I mean BUT as one of the very few people that owns nearly every single skin to the point rerolls after events are important as hell. Getting the event skins for free and using the tokens for other stuff ( boarders and extra skin tokens )
I just hope they don't screw us 1% of players that DO have everything better not change it so that our next reroll isnt free or not getting it at all ...
Great video Necrit. Glad for your insights into this.
riot, especially the executives, do not need more money lmao. They are doing fine, and will continue to do fine. Do not fall for the "we wont survive if we dont charge 30 dollars for AI art skins"
Yeah, they act like this is to keep the lights on when they make billions annually...
Especially as a corporation, no corporation especially when owned by something like tencent says:"nah, I'm fine"
Im one of the "Got all the skin so i just reroll for the new one when they are available", i will write down clearly: If i can't have the new skin with reroll, no more money.
Preach. I'm with you. I'm already on the edge after they prevented us from rolling for the newly released Prestige skins and these $200 Chromas.
I hope y'all live up to those words, 'cause let's face it, I believe most won't.
On the same boat, was already VERY salty we cannot reroll new gemstone skins or €200 mythic chromas.. also dont forget you wont get borders anymore.. (Used to be in the past rerolls)
So for the sake of my collection I litterly keep it ROLLING..
If they make it EVEN worse then what they already changed, time gate more stuff or simply DONT add new skins or mythics etc into the hextech reroll = Goodbye League, goodluck with you're revenue and I hope there will be SO much backlash their main HQ will explode, with this dumb F*** on twitter in it.
bullshit, you are addicted, good luck wiht that.
Nah. You're in too deep fam. You will keep spending.
An extra point about other companies not giving whales discounts
Even decently big mmos would give whale only discounts in their cash shop and most companies have a bit extra for repeated purchases/pity systems for p2w systems which just arent reachable for regular players
I recently did a survey for them that was asking about what my preferences were for pass rewards.
That intro is one of the biggest flexes
What you are talking about at 10:55 is referred to as the "buyers fallacy" by economists. A buyer will always overestimate their own needs and their own level of consumption. These industries pray on that poor decision making to continue.
i'm surprise that they have the new stuffs on the pull the moment they are in. I still remember my friend getting the smolder skin pretty much on the same week he came out by just doing a random reroll that he didn't even know it was a thing because he plays very casually.
But hope they don't change the stuffs because it's not that complex and for a F2P is pretty rewarding with the amount skins you can get, and when it comes to confusing system and currency stuff, nothing is more confusing that OW2 that is a shitshow of multiple currencies and way of acquiring stuffs.
hope its nothing bad coming to it. I primary use masterwork chests to get skins in game because i can spend 10usd on chest and get normally 20 or more usd worth of skins back, sometimes it back fires and I get 0usd skins back and instead a bunch of essence but that in return makes the next 10usd better. I also get mythic's I am saving up for a prestige skin. I am by no means a whale and I rarely toss more than 10usd a month or so at riot but this is still to me a better option than spending 10usd on 1 skin
I think the thing people want the most is a orange essence emporioum... this will not affect whales, cuz they already don't even look at OE, for whales with infinite OE riot could just give something like an specific skin (like BE emporioum do with urfwick)... this would be only a F2P players thing, giving skins in exchange for OE, like the BE emporioum but with some changes, all skins wouldn't cost the same of course (maybe just a x1.25 their OE price when they are shards) and obviously exclusive content are banned (prestige, mithycs, unobtainable skins, etc)
Not really? Do most people have big amounts of OE?
I usually have like a 1000 max, in case I get a shard I actually want. Skins that I don't want get rerolled
@@atata9I think I have almost 8k
cause there's no skins I really care about and I keep getting +150 from random sources
@@atata9 that's the point, you don't have much cuz the only thing for spending it is the skins shards... but with a emprorium things would be different, you have choice, you could save OE for the emporium or just enchant skin shards, but giving the option would be cool
The major problem I see with something like this is that if people are already saving their shards to reroll for newer/better content...what are you going to offer in the emporium to people that are already in the reroll loop? I understand the system is MEANT to be a F2P thing for players that don't have the money to spend, but you them turn around and limit out the things people would most likely want to buy. Are you going to offer up a My Shop again, but this time with Orange Essence? Why not just add the Orange Essence cost to the skins in My Shop? Do you build a whole new section and adjust it? Why wouldn't you just offer with an algorithm you already use? Does it have to differentiate? Are you just offering the same skins to everyone? What if some players already have those skins and get nothing out of the emporium?
The idea isn't bad, but the limitations and questions about how it works present a lot of questions. Many of those questions are hard to answer. If it's like the Blue Essence Emporium, which is a sink for people who own every champion....Orange Essence can be used for more, as can the skin shards(with rerolling) so why would you ever choose to give all of that up to specifically use the OEE? What is the benefit of this change vs changing the system completely? I can say that I would probably NEVER use the OEE because the value proposition of just rerolling my skins would almost always offer a higher return, based on the skins I reroll vs keep vs DE. But that's based off of what my notion of the system would include, and how limited it would be. Especially with a higher cost vs just crafting a skin I would want from a shard(Of which I have many currently, and have crafting many before) and it's just a system that I don't see many people using.
Oh hell nah
Fix the damn client before changing the reroll system. Then *MAYBE* we can talk about it
riot speed running losing players with this and vanguard
"Gambling machine"! Genuine the best quote of this video on the new possible reroll system.
GOOD LUCK GUYS 😂
I still miss champion rerolls
If it weren’t for the twitch claims, I would be missing like 20 champions still.. such a shame they keep removing stuff for F2P people
This really heavily depends on what times you compare too.
When I started playing League (around 10 years ago) there were no chest, no champion rerolls and no free skins. To buy champs, you had to dutyfully grind games, getting about 50 BE per game and that was all. You had to safe up to buy the champions. There we're less of them, true, but you had to grind a lot longer to afford one on average. Then they introduced chests, lifited the level limit to give you champion shards with every level up, introduced missions that sometimes grant BE, battlepass with free rewards and so on.
So, while there might have been times where F2P players got a bit more stuff for free than now, if we're looking at the whole history of League, then the players today get a lot more for free than at most other points in Leagues history.
Also, you're basically complaining that Riot isn't giving you enough stuff for free. Do you realize what that actually means?
Imagine how you would react if somebody came to you and complained about that.
@@lubue5795going through the comment sections its insane to me how much of this game's playerbase feels entitled to all of it's products for free like it's their birthright for simply playing the game while willfully ignoring the fact that riot already gives away over 80% of league's experience for free and is a lot more generous in that regard compared to literally every other competitor in the industry. It's like the more the game gives away the more entitled to everything the players feel. Fucking asinine
@@coffeeknight6148 They're giving 80% of the experience for free, and they're still racking in billions upon billions.
The system works. People are happy. The problem is that they just cant stop screwing the systems that just works and the players that are happy to get few more cents out of people.
@@coffeeknight6148 This. Back when I started playing in S2, players used to spend money on NEW CHAMPIONS. Not skins. It took an awful lot of time to get all the roster.
Riot is most likely the only company that gives so much of their only revenue source (skins) for free or close to it. If I play a bit and get the Season Pass for 15 bucks I can usually get around 15 skins from the orbs with a good chance for Legendaries. This would've been impossible before and is impossible in most games.
you don't "pay more" you just "spend more"
it's 10,000 dollars to unlock every skin...you probably need to spend 9,000 to even have decent odds at pulling a skin you want.
lol, kitty freaked the f out when necrit popped up on a black background on our tv lmao. like you just teleported into our room. poor little guy. thank you for the video :) you save me so much in the patience and research i could never sustain :)
League is one of the first few examples of what I've dubbed "Comsetic Rot"
Basically as a game continues it eventually reaches a creative wall where the amount of effort required to create new ideas is too high for it's creators. Or more accurately, the creators just become tired of actually making interesting skin concepts and choose to produce the things with the lowest effort and highest returns. This is also coupled with an overfixation on skins to begin with as opposed to balance or innovation in the games systems like new gamemodes. I could go more in depth here but considering all the drama recently I can't be the only one to notice we get more skins than ever, but most are of far lower quality than those of previous years and often fail to fully utilize the character + Thematic combo to it's fullest potential.
Are the skins of lower quality?
Sure, there are always some skins that fall a little flat, that's a given. Somebody has to be the worst. But there are then again always skins that are very good in turn as well, so I think it's not as onesides as you say it is.
Similar for skinlines. True they are not experimenting that much with new skinlines but that's also because many of the skinlines that came from that just were not liked by the people. Skin lines that sell well are, after all, also those the players like, so you could also argue that Riot is now focusing on the skinlines the player actually want to have, rather than produce skins nobody wants.
Furthermore, after not having a dedicated gamemode team for years, Riot has finally reimplemented it and they've already delivered a very popular new game mode with arena and have announced that there will be more to come.
So I don't think things are truely looking as bleak as your theory would imply.
@@lubue5795 THe overall quality of skins has been steadily decreasing as more of them get pumped out. I love Project Naafiri but I cannot fully deny it's flaws as a skin and it gets away mostly on novelty over anything else. The quantity of truly bad skins like Project gangplank has been increasing in part because they are producing more, not to mention the 200$ disaster recolors. Triple Dipping on champions with Legendary skins is also a problem now. I understand cosmetics are the primary way league makes money, but they are still pretty commonly the only content the game receives outside of balance changes. The Bias given in skins is always going to be and additional frustrating factor, and lower quality skins will burn the people who do main the more niche champions who go some years without even getting a new skin. Heavenscale is a perfect example for the most part of a new thematic that just doesn't follow itself very well too, as the skinline sells one idea but displays another, and this is not the first time a problem like that has occurred. As well, champion with a glut of skins aren't having much in terms of new or interesting ideas explored in their new ones which begs the question of who tf is gonna buy them outside of collectors who want every skin for their favorite champion.
@@lubue5795 The remark isn't based on the value of the quality of the skin, it's about quality in comparison.
Or should we presume that one of those expensive 200$ skins took as much work and effort as an entire character's Concept, Design, Gameplay Kit, Balance Tweaks, and Patching?
@@KingTaltia Nobody thought that 200$ skin was worth its money.
Riot themselves said that they knew it hadn't that value. It's a collectors item for the people who want to collect, nothing more nothing less.
Also, the original comment said "I can't be the only one to notice we get more skins than ever, but most are of far lower quality than those of previous years"
This seems to me to include a lot more skins than the two 200$ skins.
Wdym you dislike the 45th "sci-fi cyborg" skin line? Kapp
Necrit; the historian who, with the passage of time, became a journalist.
Also, while i admire Drew’s ideal for wanting better clarity for skin purchasing and loot activities, I dont believe for a second that Riot will look at it and not personally emphasize the “so this will make us more money right?” aspect of it.
I would really love if they bring back old limited chromas and borders for like 50k OE, or some random shop that comes and you being able to buy those chromas or borders for OE or ME. Im missing only 1 chroma for Kayn and the borders so for me i would spend quite a bit just to fullfill that collection.
Welp, after hearing this possibility of an update, might be the end of whaling for me. I am sort of a completist and only lacked about 19 unobtainable skins. I have close to 300 shards just a few weeks ago but I still spend a lot on passes, bundles to get the borders and icons, chests for additional mythic essence, and other cool events I feel like spending on. Heck even boosts in ARAM… yes, most of the newly released skins now I get them from rerolling… and it doesn’t make sense to me if I can no longer get them thru that, this on top of the vanguard update, this could be really the end for me with League after more than 11 years. At least I get to save money now if not spend on other games.
if they nerf the pass i am out. The skins are the only reason i still play the game. I dont care for ranked, i just like the art. But spending 20 bucks just for 1 skin is incomprehensible to me. paying 17 bucks for the pass is like a netflix or amazon subscription. If that isnt enough, then they need to question themselves why its not enough. To me they seem to waste their money on stuff that is not needed and got their prio inside their company wrong. Some people also dont deserve their jobs to put it nicely xD
@@crostyla51 they have nerfed the pass a few times already but if they continue to do so, that’s it for me. The recent Winterblessed and Lunar passes were downgraded so much… I am not just nitpicking but they have made a lot of questionable decisions and like you said, got their priorities wrong sometimes. If they keep doing it, they will continue to lose numbers, regardless if they’re whales or casual players.
Imagine thinking writing all this will give you empathy instead of an massive eye roll. Lmao.
Oh no, they're pissed off people can roll and have a 0.0000002 chance to get a cool skin. No shot. They're doubling down on monetization even further? Like, wtf?
Rename Riot games to Tencent games.
About the event currency i remember when they implemented it i did the math and you had to play like 8hours a day with a 50% winrate to get both the skin and the 200ME, ive always tought that if you play that much you should get all the rewards on the store, chromas and other stuff shouldnt be consolation prizes for those that couldnt grind enough, imo 2 hours a day should get you enough shards for skin or ME, then everything else is geravy, but they want player retention so ofc they want you to play 8+ hours a day.
It could be the exact same, just newer items wont be in reroll pool for a month or so?
It's the same problem. They would just hold on to the shards for an extra month, you just delay the issue
@@Pyrrha_Nikos There isn't an issue with that, most whales will end up spending early to get the skin early & complete their collection. They could wait for mythic variants too yet they buy them because they want their collection back to full asap. Any form of delay will cause an increase in sales to whales, even if it's just a %, it's better than right now.
@@SolDBD As an ahri main (read whale), I need to keep her entire collection up-to-date, so while yes, some whales will wait most will want to get it as soon as possible, me personally I will reroll what I have on me if there is a chance that I can get it from RRs but if I spend all of them and still dont have it, I might just buy it outright.
Also apperently there's a rumor going around for a SG ahri little legend. So riot has me in there grips once again.
Riot when someone spends thousands of dollars (way more than 99% of the playerbase ever would) to obtains skins more easily:
"Help! We're being abused!"
The new yone skin is 🥵
What if we can buy keys for orange essences? and maybe just maybe get more opportunitys to get hextech chest or keys like a daily challenge for key fragments and a weekly challenge for an extra chest, where if you get all 4 of these weeklys in a month you get an extra chest/ 1350+ skin permanent or even a masterworks chest.
What are peoples problem with orange essence? I just keep mine until I get a random shard I like to turn into a skin. Isn't that a good use for them?
I don't know where this will end but I think they already changed the drop rate of skins shards from normal chests, used to always get a skin shard and maybe something else, now I get a shard every 3 chests that I open.
I’ll be honest I’ve gotten a lot of expensive skins from my rolls without rerolling😊 and i haven’t spent much on skins, I’m unsure why my luck is so good but it might have something to do with how pleasantly I’ve tried to interact with support. I find i get a lot of’ bonus content’ eerily close to support tickets that closed so maybe super staff have control over your drop rates or something in case of ‘ease of customer satisfaction’
So, Just out of curiousity @Necrit Can we talk about other league customization ? Custom anouncers, Wild rift customization for League itself.. Maps? Any insight ? Any talks about it somewhere?
Some of us run low on shards after awhile and have to buy more, so they won't actually remove anything from the rerolls.
Can't wait to use this system when they support linux
I haven't spent that much to be a problem and never engaged with the re-rolling system and stuff. I buy skins I like and skip those that are too expensive. As for the orange essences, I horde those for skins I like for champions I rarely or never play.
i am on the whale side- i won 1122 skins and used to pay alot (not so much anymore) its interesting to see what they will change, even tho i dont see a real reason for it, on my second acc i dont spend at all and i feel like i get alot for free
Look at the price difference between a 0,33L/0,355L can of soda and a 2L bottle. Pretty big quantity discount, especially with by 3 for 2 on the larger bottles.
They could add a cooldown for skins in the reroll system from the time they’re released, that would make them some more shmoney from the whales rather than affect every player too much though I think it’s only a good idea for mythic/prestige skins
There's already something like that, ppl could reroll into new prestige skins as soon as the release, now they have to wait until the skin leaves the event or essence shop
tbh with the orange essence, cant they make it blue essence but a bit more expensive since at a certain point you just get so much blue essence you dont know what to do with
Orange Essence needs a new use in my opinion I have 54,000 Orange Essence and nothing to use it on.
First world problems😂
I like orange essence. The Skins I want have the same probability to appear as a shard then in reroll so I disentchant all skinns above 975 or so and reroll everything below. Rerolling mostly sux. I have like 5 lux skins and am a bruser jungler player since season 3.
What I would like them to change is putting all emotes Into the pool, I only know that not all of them are in the pool because of the 2017 arcade event.
Back when the event with the 2 emotes, (O.K and game over) Went by and I forgot to get them. I had the tokens. I just I'm really bad at making decisions between two things I really like and I was choosing between the emotes and the sona Croma ( she was my main at the time.) and ended up not getting either because I missed the end window and didn't choose because I couldn't get both at the time.
After that event, I tried to collect as many random emotes as I could from different free emote capsules and events to try to reroll the emotes that I had missed.
A little while I was able to gather enough random emotes and one day I opened one that was one I already had and when I when I tried to reroll it again I got another emote I already had. It was at that point I found out that not all emotes get put into the pool because after all that work.
I did not get those two emotes I was looking for, thinking that they would be in the pool. Additionally, they have not been available again since the event.
I wouldn't call myself A whale by any means, in fact, most of my emote collection came from free to play sources and I also spent some tokens that were Free to play because of the three hundred they give you in events that I spent on emotes.
It's not a big deal and I know that this wouldn't affect very many players and that most players wouldn't even care I'm just disappointed.
More at myself, then the system but I really wanted those emotes.
And I thought there would be a way to get them, but apparently not.
Thank you to anybody who read this. It's just a Journey that I went on that not a lot of people care about and I had to put it somewhere.
I agree with Drew I've had a account since season 2 i whaled for a while... but I get alot of value on shards
Make it so chest and orbs give you shards you don't own but make them cost more like way more so people actually collect and spend orange
Honestly, I think do away with orange essence. When you disenchant a shard too it barely gives you anything, but rerolls work better.
OR, keep orange essence but then let us pull for skins in like a gacha system like TFT has. 100 OE for a skin pull or something. If its just skins then i dont mind a gacha system tbh, because its just purely cosmetic than affectinf gameplay like other gacha games where you get a whole new character
You should have the option to use orange essence and skin shards in a reroll like you do when it comes to unlocking said skin shards permanently.
what if in their new system of masteries
they implementa system where
you get to choose a skin (any skin you want excluding mythics and ultimates) when you reach mastery 7 for any champion
then if you pick a legendary skin 3 times for 3 champions that you have 7 mastery unlocked, you wont be able to pick legendary skins again on other champs
and you'll be able to only choose normal skins
and all of their playerbase likes skins if they grab their attention like this its a win
and they dont kill the value of their skins (money wise), so its a win win win
Thinking? I already can't reroll emotes to get the ones available in the store.. and I have all the emotes
So the some sort of system is already in place or something?
I'm a "whale" myself and I know many other whales.
I can honestly tell you, from the experience of 14 people, none of us actually buys any skins anymore, unless we want a border for a Prestige skin, which happens very rarely.
We get all new skins for rerolling. Nobody I talked with actually paid money to get the Jhin od Ekko 200$ chroma skin.
So, from my experience at least, "targetting whales" didn't work. Just pissed of A LOT of people, but not us whales. We will get those skins for just 3 skinshards anyway.
I am a whale because collecting skins was fun and i liked the gatcha of mystery gifting myself skins every week, and then being able to re-roll skins on release so i can enjoy them. the re-rolling IS THE reason why i own every skin and why i keep my collection complete.
If they remove re-rolling, they will not get a single penny from me again... And that sounds like one fish leaving, but it's not, because i'm 100% certain all my fellow whales will be the same.
I rerolled 3 skins and got a legendary I bought just a couple months ago.
And due to the fact that the return system is very quickly clogged (it's done on purpose, I guess) with useless junk that can't be returned anyway, and the return (again on purpose) is limited to one page with no sorting option, I couldn't return an expensive skin that I got a duplicate for after the roll :)
It's not that people don't know what to do with orange essence it's just that you don't get enough of it from anything I have like 88 skins sitting in my loot section waiting to be crafted but I'm not getting orange essence to use to craft them All and sure I can just sacrifice 3 skins for a random perma skin but alot of the skins I got sitting in my loot section are unavailable ones like all the world's skins I say just increase the orange essence chance and it will be fine
Is the min-max method just to reroll the cheap stuff and hope you get cool skins?
I havent gotten a 3rd skin shard in at least 5 months
I just came back to jgl after playing adc(which has mostly been my main role together with top) cuz im to tierd to rely on supports deciding lane. I feel like i got alot more impact on the game now and im happy Kindred is in a good spot cuz that fits me perfect but oh man, I had forget how much shit u get when the game goes bad... x) (LANERS PLEASE WARD AND DONT PUSH IF U DONT KNOW WHERE ENEMY JGL IS, HAVE NO VISION AND UR JGL IS ON OTHER SIDE OF THE MAP!!!)
As someone who only converts skin shards if they are a skin I like the look of, not really caring about if it's a "good" skin in the eyes of the community, this sounds good to me because what I've been hoarding is orange essence so if I can get some cooler stuff with it i'm all ears
I've just been deconstructing everything and using OE when I get a shard I like and it seems fine for me. I only rerolled a couple times because getting a skin I definitely don't like is totally useless and the overwhelmingly likely result. The system has always felt like a free gimmie, but I'd never invest money into a skin gacha. I learned my lesson quick.
What if with the OE, there was an option to spend in on a skin you want? Like for X amount of OE, you get tp pick a skin in. Every skin available within a rarity, Ultimate, Mythic, Legendary or Epic, for an OE price.
Don't know the cost in thousands but like Ultimate for 10 and scaling down different levels. That would make OE its own unique value. Keep rolls too, maybe make legacy skins only available in rolling.
It would be interesting to see the data on what percentage of players own all purchase-able skins.. 1-3%? 0.01%? Punishing the individuals who have spent thousands of dollars, doesn't seem smart. It's annoying enough that you have to wait a year to hit the Jhin and Ekko $200 skins.
They will probably make it so re-rolling 3 1350 skins give that or higher like 80% that 50% next tier 40% next and so on? maybe?
Is there a thing that prevent you from gwtting a lower level skin than tthe shards you use for rollin ( like, if my lowest shard use is a blue, i wont get an ordinary skin) because i always reroll the ordinary skins and i useally keep to blue and up to sell for orange if i get a skin shard i really want, instead of using those shard for a skin i don't care about... i jave a bad habit of rolling skins for champions i'm really bad with or dont play