I have been applying finish for over 30yrs. One of the only jobs I ever had that I wasn't working for myself was in for a guy who repaired, restored and preserved antique furniture. He was the best finisher I had ever encountered. The Golden rule of finishing is never cross finish. If you are going to use lacquer then use a lacquer based paint (dye or pigment tinted) if you use shellac...same thing. For epoxy it's not going to matter because it doesn't really have a solvent. Oil based spray paint with just destroy the lacquer and shellac. If you want to paint over it use a latex or acrylic paint. Oil based spray paint should be used for painting metal wagons, wheelbarrows or your lawn mower deck. Use appropriate blends for woodworking. Plus.. three coats of everything. Three coats of sealer and three top coats.
When using shellac, you want to make sure it's dewaxed (sold as "sealcoat" by zinsser, or make your own from flakes). The wax in regular shellac may inhibit the adhesion of the oramask. If the can just says "shellac", it's the waxy kind.
I'm a huge fan of Varathane Sanding Sealer. One coat on surface, mask, cut, one coat on the letters. Dries invisible and super fast. I hate putting mask on top of finish, recipe for disaster in the last level of the project. It's kind of expensive at ~$100/gallon but Aubuchon has it 50% off right now.
i've found that lacquer does a much better job. I generally put 2-3 small coats after using oramask with very little sanding afterwards. Thanks for sharing
If you spray water based acrylic paint with a light coat on and wait 10 min to dry and then do a second coat you will find that you will not even need to seal coat, just sand afterwards even without masking first.
I have one more method for you to try. I did a video on this a few years ago. I put down a very thin watered-down coat of "plastic wood" wood filler, and then do my v-carve. From there you might want to spray shellac/lacquer in the carved/exposed areas if using a thin paint like spray paint (I just brush acrylic paint). The wood filler sands off faster than pulling off the oromask, and the coverage is better than oromask (no areas "pull up").
Great video. Thanks for doing this work so I don't have to! I've bounced around between shellac and poly for sealing v-carves. I've wanted to try epoxy, but it does come at a cost. Maybe just using epoxy for the interior and not the overall sealing of the top. I have found that sometimes, it takes multiple coats of paint after sealing the carve. I normally use acrylic, so that could be why.
I have started doing a lot of painted VCarve signs in cheap pine and have tried a LOT of sealers to prevent bleeding but think I just hit the jackpot with one maybe two coats of MinWax sanding sealer. I get perfect zero bleed results and the bonus is it dries really quickly. It does swell the grain a bit but that is fine. If you do a test again add that into the mix, I think you will be surprised.
Great video. You'll get even better results if you use a downcut V-BIt. The upcut one you were using will pull the oramask up. The downcut V-BIt will actually help push it down. Try that.
I use water based acrylic paint like you get at walmart or hobby stores and spray it on with a mid sized airbrush. I've never had any bleed unless i thin it down way too much.
This Michael Mason loves the letter M as your carving subject! 😂 I guess I'm going to get some spray shellac and lacquer and give both a try here too. Awesome video... keep it up! Happy new school year. #SothPawNation (tm)
Great video and new subscriber from a fellow creator. I've had success with sanding sealer for MDF. Epoxy is great with all, but comes at a cost. When applying spray paint I hit it with a back and forth motion for a better even application. Also, check out a downcut v-bit. Keep up the good work!
Oramask is expensive. So is epoxy. I get great results by doing the carvings first with nothing on the wood. Then I seal the project with shellac, including the freshly cut carvings. This ensures that the woodgrain inside the carvings is sealed to prevent paint bleed. Once the shellac is dry I paint the carvings with acrylic paint and, while the paint is wet, wipe off the excess with a damp cloth. Then a light sanding after the paint is dry.
i usually use spray lacquer. i do like 3 coats. epoxy is superior, but it's slower and more expensive, so i don't usually do it unless i'm gonna epoxy more over it because i wanna block air bubbles.
I sell wood signs at craft shows. I use Baltic Birch 1/2 Ply. I brush on two coats of Shellac let it dry and put Oramask on it. I find that if I let the Oramask sit for a day I get better adhesion. I try always to spray with Marsh stencil ink. Marsh is the key to no bleed. That stuff is just awesome and drys supper fast. I then finish with a quick spray of clear spray paint. My signs sell for $15 and I sell a ton of them at the shows. Most only take total 10-15 minutes to cut and finish.
Should have the spray paint can back farther , spreads out the paint particulates spread out more, less running of the paint, also use a sweeping method right to left left to right. Never pause movement always a fluid movement. Also feather the depressor and don’t spray continuously, saves paint in the long run 😊
Hi, when i paint v-carve's i put the clear coat after machining and for seal the machined part, i have bleed one time (the first) and never happened again.
Not that you have a lack of content to work with but there is some scuttle about enamel paint not absorbing into wood ( brush on) and it dries glossy and nice
Very true. I used spray paint mainly because it tends to be a little thinner, which would increase the likelihood of bleeding to truly test it, but I agree with you.
Just a thought it would be cool if you sprayed Shellac then after it’s cut then use just a little epoxy. It would make the letters pop and possibly have the same low blessing.
I have heard that hand painting vs spray painting is better for not bleeding into carved letters that are lacquered. Something in the spray paint can either breakdown your sealing choice causing bleeding.
One of the best ways whether it is rattle can(spray) or epoxies set the out in the direct sunlight, it heats it up and bakes the paint or epoxies. I worked in an industry where we had to have our paints and epoxy cure as fast as possible, just my 2 cents. Give it a shot have you got to lose by trying
i do it in the reverse to most...... I engrave the design then 2 coats of nitro lacquer on surface and engraving done with a spray gun.....do the black and then sand off....no bleeding and less work then most of the examples you showed here.....the nitro lacquer traps all the black and also seals the end grain which is the main bleed area and sands off real easy....I also dont use that plastic sheet over the top...not really necessary and just another cost that some marketing bloke came up with :-) :-) :-) cheers for the video
Have you got any methods for reducing the amount of sanding required inside the letter carvings on hardwood to ensure a smooth finish once painted? I find it can be difficult and tedious.
For engraving, a v bit works well. If you’re talking about letters that are cut out, I feel your pain. I’m starting to use thinner material and a laser cutter instead of a CNC.
so looks lie I've been doing it wrong, I seal before engraving but haven't been sealing before painting. Explains why the bleeding when I use pine. Thanks for the video and to those that left comments !
Thanks! I made this video as more of a test for myself to get better, so I don't claim to be the expert in this area, but like the feedback that I receive. I've probably learned more from the comments to my videos than my experiments and other videos.
you did not sand the epoxy parts. not sure why but it would have been interesting to see it sanded. Also you painted the gloss black too thick. You need to do light coats so it can't pool. I have used shellac on my stuff with great results and virtually no bleed. I used krylon spray paint and ormask was used.
I have been applying finish for over 30yrs. One of the only jobs I ever had that I wasn't working for myself was in for a guy who repaired, restored and preserved antique furniture. He was the best finisher I had ever encountered. The Golden rule of finishing is never cross finish. If you are going to use lacquer then use a lacquer based paint (dye or pigment tinted) if you use shellac...same thing. For epoxy it's not going to matter because it doesn't really have a solvent.
Oil based spray paint with just destroy the lacquer and shellac. If you want to paint over it use a latex or acrylic paint. Oil based spray paint should be used for painting metal wagons, wheelbarrows or your lawn mower deck.
Use appropriate blends for woodworking. Plus.. three coats of everything. Three coats of sealer and three top coats.
literally the video I needed for anew project. Thank you!
Thank you for your efforts, saves us all a lot of time!
Thank you for sharing. Very infornative and helps answer doubts.
Great info.
Great experiment. Thank you.
Thank you! Cheers!
When using shellac, you want to make sure it's dewaxed (sold as "sealcoat" by zinsser, or make your own from flakes). The wax in regular shellac may inhibit the adhesion of the oramask. If the can just says "shellac", it's the waxy kind.
The spray shellac he used is absolutely wax free, despite not being called seal coat.
@@Shane-ce9fm You're right; all of their spray shellacs are wax free.
@@NWGR No problem. Glad I could help.
I'm a huge fan of Varathane Sanding Sealer. One coat on surface, mask, cut, one coat on the letters. Dries invisible and super fast. I hate putting mask on top of finish, recipe for disaster in the last level of the project. It's kind of expensive at ~$100/gallon but Aubuchon has it 50% off right now.
i've found that lacquer does a much better job. I generally put 2-3 small coats after using oramask with very little sanding afterwards. Thanks for sharing
If you spray water based acrylic paint with a light coat on and wait 10 min to dry and then do a second coat you will find that you will not even need to seal coat, just sand afterwards even without masking first.
I have one more method for you to try. I did a video on this a few years ago. I put down a very thin watered-down coat of "plastic wood" wood filler, and then do my v-carve. From there you might want to spray shellac/lacquer in the carved/exposed areas if using a thin paint like spray paint (I just brush acrylic paint). The wood filler sands off faster than pulling off the oromask, and the coverage is better than oromask (no areas "pull up").
Great tip!
Great video. Thanks for doing this work so I don't have to! I've bounced around between shellac and poly for sealing v-carves. I've wanted to try epoxy, but it does come at a cost. Maybe just using epoxy for the interior and not the overall sealing of the top. I have found that sometimes, it takes multiple coats of paint after sealing the carve. I normally use acrylic, so that could be why.
Great point!
For MDF, I like sanding sealer. It's super thirsty & I'm never going to stain it.
I have started doing a lot of painted VCarve signs in cheap pine and have tried a LOT of sealers to prevent bleeding but think I just hit the jackpot with one maybe two coats of MinWax sanding sealer. I get perfect zero bleed results and the bonus is it dries really quickly. It does swell the grain a bit but that is fine. If you do a test again add that into the mix, I think you will be surprised.
Excellent. I’ll give it a shot.
Great video. You'll get even better results if you use a downcut V-BIt. The upcut one you were using will pull the oramask up. The downcut V-BIt will actually help push it down. Try that.
Thanks for the tip! I didn't even consider that. I'll get a couple!!!
I use water based acrylic paint like you get at walmart or hobby stores and spray it on with a mid sized airbrush. I've never had any bleed unless i thin it down way too much.
This Michael Mason loves the letter M as your carving subject! 😂 I guess I'm going to get some spray shellac and lacquer and give both a try here too. Awesome video... keep it up!
Happy new school year.
#SothPawNation (tm)
😂You're the whole reason I did it!!
Great video and new subscriber from a fellow creator. I've had success with sanding sealer for MDF. Epoxy is great with all, but comes at a cost. When applying spray paint I hit it with a back and forth motion for a better even application. Also, check out a downcut v-bit. Keep up the good work!
You're not the first that's mentioned a downcut V Bit. I need to get one.
Oramask is expensive. So is epoxy. I get great results by doing the carvings first with nothing on the wood. Then I seal the project with shellac, including the freshly cut carvings. This ensures that the woodgrain inside the carvings is sealed to prevent paint bleed. Once the shellac is dry I paint the carvings with acrylic paint and, while the paint is wet, wipe off the excess with a damp cloth. Then a light sanding after the paint is dry.
I use a clear masking product that's a 10th as expensive as Aura mask and it's medium tack it actually works much better than oremask in my opinion
@SzechuanChickenDog What product are you using instead?
Help, i have used the Oramask and others, how do i get a clean edge when it cuts, is it my bit or spindle speeds etc
You just blew my mind.
I’ve used a cloth to wipe off the top, but I invariably wipe off some of the paint that’s supposed to stay. How do you address that?
Bear spray paint from home depot is what i use and it drys very fast and i dont have bleeding
i usually use spray lacquer. i do like 3 coats. epoxy is superior, but it's slower and more expensive, so i don't usually do it unless i'm gonna epoxy more over it because i wanna block air bubbles.
I sometimes thin epoxy with acetone for a thin coat.
Great tip!
I sell wood signs at craft shows. I use Baltic Birch 1/2 Ply. I brush on two coats of Shellac let it dry and put Oramask on it. I find that if I let the Oramask sit for a day I get better adhesion. I try always to spray with Marsh stencil ink. Marsh is the key to no bleed. That stuff is just awesome and drys supper fast. I then finish with a quick spray of clear spray paint. My signs sell for $15 and I sell a ton of them at the shows. Most only take total 10-15 minutes to cut and finish.
Awesome. This is great to know. I’m not an expert in this area, so that really helps.
Should have the spray paint can back farther , spreads out the paint particulates spread out more, less running of the paint, also use a sweeping method right to left left to right. Never pause movement always a fluid movement. Also feather the depressor and don’t spray continuously, saves paint in the long run 😊
Thanks for the tip
Hope it works, or if you’ve got a better way I always love finding better ways of doing things. I use spray paint tones with my laser cnc
Very informative video. I love scientific approaches like this. What made you think of this experiment?
The fact that I'm generally pretty decent at the woodworking and CNC side, but I suck at finishing and painting. Trying to up my game.😂
Hi, when i paint v-carve's i put the clear coat after machining and for seal the machined part, i have bleed one time (the first) and never happened again.
Not that you have a lack of content to work with but there is some scuttle about enamel paint not absorbing into wood ( brush on) and it dries glossy and nice
I have my best results when I do not use spray paint use a water-based acrylic paint
Very true. I used spray paint mainly because it tends to be a little thinner, which would increase the likelihood of bleeding to truly test it, but I agree with you.
Just a thought it would be cool if you sprayed Shellac then after it’s cut then use just a little epoxy. It would make the letters pop and possibly have the same low blessing.
Good call.
I have heard that hand painting vs spray painting is better for not bleeding into carved letters that are lacquered. Something in the spray paint can either breakdown your sealing choice causing bleeding.
Didn't realize that there was anything in spray paint that causes breakdown. I'll need to check into that.
One of the best ways whether it is rattle can(spray) or epoxies set the out in the direct sunlight, it heats it up and bakes the paint or epoxies. I worked in an industry where we had to have our paints and epoxy cure as fast as possible, just my 2 cents. Give it a shot have you got to lose by trying
i do it in the reverse to most...... I engrave the design then 2 coats of nitro lacquer on surface and engraving done with a spray gun.....do the black and then sand off....no bleeding and less work then most of the examples you showed here.....the nitro lacquer traps all the black and also seals the end grain which is the main bleed area and sands off real easy....I also dont use that plastic sheet over the top...not really necessary and just another cost that some marketing bloke came up with :-) :-) :-) cheers for the video
I'm finding that the Oramask is useful, but not perfect, so I'm using the lacquer and sand method more and more myself.
cool :-)
@@SothpawDesigns
How hard is it to sand off the epoxy and would it make sense to do so if you didn't want the shiny surface?
That's a good question. I did the epoxy on a whim, so I'm not sure how it would appear if you sanded it down. That's a lot of work.
I seal with shellac and use lowes latex paint sample colors-use small brushes
I get zero bleed on all material
Thank you!! Good tips
Have you got any methods for reducing the amount of sanding required inside the letter carvings on hardwood to ensure a smooth finish once painted? I find it can be difficult and tedious.
For engraving, a v bit works well. If you’re talking about letters that are cut out, I feel your pain. I’m starting to use thinner material and a laser cutter instead of a CNC.
So after you sealed the bare wood with the three products, will the wood tack a finish? Stain,Oil,
The sealant would be sanded off, leaving a clean finish, so it should. Except for the epoxy. I would think that would be too difficult.
Ah ha!
I know for a fact that bio-labs use Gorilla brand duct tape to hold down their paper towels.....not 3M painters tape.
Enjoyed the video.
Apparently milk paint works really well to prevent bleeding. The thicker the better.
Never considered it. Thanks! I'll give it a shot.
so looks lie I've been doing it wrong, I seal before engraving but haven't been sealing before painting. Explains why the bleeding when I use pine. Thanks for the video and to those that left comments !
Thanks! I made this video as more of a test for myself to get better, so I don't claim to be the expert in this area, but like the feedback that I receive. I've probably learned more from the comments to my videos than my experiments and other videos.
Marsh stencil ink
I'll give it a look. Thanks!!
I have always had really great luck with the (excuse the spelling) Shellac?...
I think you spelled it correctly, and I think you're right.
I got lucky!! LOL@@SothpawDesigns
Ever think about trying Mod Podge? Both the paste & the spray versions
Hadn't even thought about it. It'd be a good thing to try.
Isn't oramask pvc? And isn't lasering pvc poisonous? Just asking.
I’m not using a laser
Good evening
Good night
Why did you not sand the epoxy?
Because I wasn't concerned with that. I was only trying to see how well it sealed.
you did not sand the epoxy parts. not sure why but it would have been interesting to see it sanded. Also you painted the gloss black too thick. You need to do light coats so it can't pool. I have used shellac on my stuff with great results and virtually no bleed. I used krylon spray paint and ormask was used.
My wife and I watched and she wondered if you lacquered the board but epoxied the letter, less epoxy and no shiny board surface.
No, I didn't lacquer the board. Did it exactly as shown.