Excellent to see a comparison of clear application with/without thinners. I had a similar experience trying to spray clear with the R version. Ended up using reducers as well and got the B version a week later which does a great job.
Hi buddy, It came about after a few people asked what effect it had, and had heard it caused dieback, obviously the only way you know, is if you do something side by side, hence the experiment. It really depends on the clear, generally, the better quality clears,although higher solids are thinner, which helps them flow, certainly worth doing the experiment though, cheers mate 👍
This is what I've been sort of getting at for some time. Most of the guns that gained some recognition in the past are because they were mostly used with a thinner clear coat. However, as you've pointed out, the quality of the product does matter. That being said, it might be better to use a reduced high solids clear than to use a neat medium solids clear. Some medium solids clears are known to have dieback and shrinkage issues as the manufacturers cut corners in quality to retain or increase iprofits. A decent HS clear and good quality reducer could prove higher in value than a so-so MS clear. Great video, Pete! Keep them coming
Thanks, Boss. I will get some MS clear coats in the future to try. It'll be interesting to see what the differences are, especially with the different guns, as it really does make a difference. Cheers mate 👍
Hi Mate, That's a HS clear. What I find surprising is the difference in viscosity between the different HS clears, I realise the solids' content varies but not by huge amounts. Cheers, buddy, I appreciate it 👍
A former paint rep told me die back happens when the molecules have nothing to grab onto. The catalyst and clear molecules grab onto eachother so more of one or the other 🧬 and the chain isn’t completed. Of course some clears are designed to be reduced.
Hi Buddy, I'm sure there are many reasons it happens. Most clear coats I've used give an up too figure for reduction, normally up to 10%, I haven't seen any that say you should add reducer, although I haven't obviously seen all of them so I'm sure they do exist.
Hi Pete, really good video mate with an interesting result as you know I've used a lot of clearcoats and I've always thought that the thinners doesn't really cause any noticeable dieback unless you over thin it, I personally think you can add up to 10% in most clearcoats even the ones where the TDS says you don't need any🤔 I usually add around 8% to most of my clears with the exception being the new ProXL clears as it seems to slow them down especially the ProXL VHS which took ages to flash off leading to runs🙄😁 I think the main cause of dieback is using the wrong hardener for the ambient temps you are using them in using a hardener which is to fast in high temps will cause dieback, also your prep effects the final finish so if you don't block and sand the primer so it's very flat and lay the basecoat nice and smooth then the clear can be sucked into the textured finish from the substrate👍 I know some won't agree with what I've posted but it's just my findings from the last 4 years using different clears👌cheers mate👍
Hi John, Sounds like you're talking absolute jibberish to me, mate 😂🤣🤪😁. You're right, I think, in what you say, I know something like the Multi Mix2 HS clear, says no thinners on the TDS but it's fine adding up to 10%, I've used it like that on stuff that's been around, out and about for 2 years and no problem with anything, it's just a few people had mentioned it too me so I thought what better way to see than to try it, cheers mate 👌
Yeah same here mate when I used the MM2 I always added up to 10% it just helps it to go on and flow out better, I think that some of it is user error adding to much thinners or using the wrong hardener but as you have pretty much proven thinners doesn't have much effect on dieback👌👍
Cheers, Ben. They are quite different, so it's difficult to compare. The C is a slower lower pressure gun, It would depend on what I was doing as to what one I would choose
@@peteshobbies5383 Yep, I can tell from your video that the C is a slow gun, perhaps as slow as the Finer 2 Plus? But, the overspray is very lower and definitely it is a great gun
Pete, how much less potlife do you get when you warm up a clear (with fast hardener) to 35 celcius vs a clear with "normal" temperature. Also, can you microwave a clear in a pps pot without melting the shit😂.
Hi Harold, With the various clears I use, all with fast hardener, the pot life is probably 5 minutes less, obviously it depends on ambient temperature but if ambient is like 30c so high 90s F then you probably won't need to warm it anyway and would be using a standard hardener I guess. Certainly, by the time the second coat goes on in my sort of ambient temperatures, it's only around 25 to 26c, so it cools fast. I haven't microwaved any in a PPS pot but I know people that have without problems, I presume it will depend on the manufacturer of the pot but people use various ones and haven't mentioned a problem, cheers mate 👍
Hi Mate, These are for a Chevrolet. I can't remember what one, but they may well share parts, although one GM and the other VW, so maybe not , cheers, buddy 👍
Hi Mate, Yes, certainly the viscosity has a lot to do with it, and it doesn't always relate to the supposed solid content of the clear, of course, some guns won't have the difficulty that the Meiji does with thicker clears, basically the guns that have a higher fluid output
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Great video, thank you Sir
Cheers, Bryan, much appreciated 👍
great video pete 👍👍👍👍
Thanks Grant, appreciated as always, mate 👌
Excellent to see a comparison of clear application with/without thinners. I had a similar experience trying to spray clear with the R version. Ended up using reducers as well and got the B version a week later which does a great job.
Hi buddy, It came about after a few people asked what effect it had, and had heard it caused dieback, obviously the only way you know, is if you do something side by side, hence the experiment.
It really depends on the clear, generally, the better quality clears,although higher solids are thinner, which helps them flow, certainly worth doing the experiment though, cheers mate 👍
@peteshobbies5383 hi pete what is your suggestion the best spraygun that will give me the flattest finish
@refinishtechnology2529 Hi mate, what sort of size gun?, what's it going to be used for?
@peteshobbies5383 i have the walcom 360 carbonio halo 1.2 clear coat gun nee version -
If it's a full-size gun you are after, the Porphis PRD717 or Iwata WS400 Series 2 clear gun, both give super flat finishs
This is what I've been sort of getting at for some time. Most of the guns that gained some recognition in the past are because they were mostly used with a thinner clear coat. However, as you've pointed out, the quality of the product does matter.
That being said, it might be better to use a reduced high solids clear than to use a neat medium solids clear. Some medium solids clears are known to have dieback and shrinkage issues as the manufacturers cut corners in quality to retain or increase iprofits. A decent HS clear and good quality reducer could prove higher in value than a so-so MS clear.
Great video, Pete! Keep them coming
Thanks, Boss. I will get some MS clear coats in the future to try. It'll be interesting to see what the differences are, especially with the different guns, as it really does make a difference. Cheers mate 👍
Glasurit 924-68 clear coat mixes 3:1:1 , I add 10% more reducer or thinner. It's thick even with the more 10% . Thanks for the video
Hi Mate, That's a HS clear. What I find surprising is the difference in viscosity between the different HS clears, I realise the solids' content varies but not by huge amounts. Cheers, buddy, I appreciate it 👍
I do the same thing with ppg ec520/ec530 if I’m shooting with an Lph400. I stick to standard mix with my modern clear guns.
Great video.
Thanks Andy 👍
A former paint rep told me die back happens when the molecules have nothing to grab onto. The catalyst and clear molecules grab onto eachother so more of one or the other 🧬 and the chain isn’t completed. Of course some clears are designed to be reduced.
Hi Buddy, I'm sure there are many reasons it happens. Most clear coats I've used give an up too figure for reduction, normally up to 10%, I haven't seen any that say you should add reducer, although I haven't obviously seen all of them so I'm sure they do exist.
Hi Pete, really good video mate with an interesting result as you know I've used a lot of clearcoats and I've always thought that the thinners doesn't really cause any noticeable dieback unless you over thin it, I personally think you can add up to 10% in most clearcoats even the ones where the TDS says you don't need any🤔
I usually add around 8% to most of my clears with the exception being the new ProXL clears as it seems to slow them down especially the ProXL VHS which took ages to flash off leading to runs🙄😁
I think the main cause of dieback is using the wrong hardener for the ambient temps you are using them in using a hardener which is to fast in high temps will cause dieback, also your prep effects the final finish so if you don't block and sand the primer so it's very flat and lay the basecoat nice and smooth then the clear can be sucked into the textured finish from the substrate👍
I know some won't agree with what I've posted but it's just my findings from the last 4 years using different clears👌cheers mate👍
Hi John, Sounds like you're talking absolute jibberish to me, mate 😂🤣🤪😁.
You're right, I think, in what you say, I know something like the Multi Mix2 HS clear, says no thinners on the TDS but it's fine adding up to 10%, I've used it like that on stuff that's been around, out and about for 2 years and no problem with anything, it's just a few people had mentioned it too me so I thought what better way to see than to try it, cheers mate 👌
Yeah same here mate when I used the MM2 I always added up to 10% it just helps it to go on and flow out better, I think that some of it is user error adding to much thinners or using the wrong hardener but as you have pretty much proven thinners doesn't have much effect on dieback👌👍
@JohnWD40TC02 I hardly ever used thinners but have started to particularly with the Upol, and it certainly does help it flow, cheers mate 👌
Good experiment, mate! Do you like this Finer Force C more than the Finer Force B and the Finer Core for clear?
Cheers, Ben. They are quite different, so it's difficult to compare. The C is a slower lower pressure gun, It would depend on what I was doing as to what one I would choose
@@peteshobbies5383 Yep, I can tell from your video that the C is a slow gun, perhaps as slow as the Finer 2 Plus? But, the overspray is very lower and definitely it is a great gun
@benjaminchu6699 The Finer 2 plus is probably a little faster
Pete, how much less potlife do you get when you warm up a clear (with fast hardener) to 35 celcius vs a clear with "normal" temperature.
Also, can you microwave a clear in a pps pot without melting the shit😂.
Hi Harold, With the various clears I use, all with fast hardener, the pot life is probably 5 minutes less, obviously it depends on ambient temperature but if ambient is like 30c so high 90s F then you probably won't need to warm it anyway and would be using a standard hardener I guess.
Certainly, by the time the second coat goes on in my sort of ambient temperatures, it's only around 25 to 26c, so it cools fast.
I haven't microwaved any in a PPS pot but I know people that have without problems, I presume it will depend on the manufacturer of the pot but people use various ones and haven't mentioned a problem, cheers mate 👍
Shorts in November Pete!
Seat Leon Mk2, right?
Hi Mate, These are for a Chevrolet. I can't remember what one, but they may well share parts, although one GM and the other VW, so maybe not , cheers, buddy 👍
What is the size of the nozzle, my friend?
Hi Mate, the Meiji Finer Force C is 1.4
so.. it's about the viscosity, right?! 🤔
Hi Mate, Yes, certainly the viscosity has a lot to do with it, and it doesn't always relate to the supposed solid content of the clear, of course, some guns won't have the difficulty that the Meiji does with thicker clears, basically the guns that have a higher fluid output