The SCARIEST router bit I've ever used! (How I survived...)
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Tools used in this video:
-Whiteside large panel raising bit: amzn.to/3n2zmaR
-More Whiteside router bits: amzn.to/3tNqM3d
Links promised in this video:
-Video and plans for router bit rack: stumpynubs.com...
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-Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com...
-Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com...
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Whiteside Router Bits: amzn.to/3436Tvz
Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!
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★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
-Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr
-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
-Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq
-ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7
(If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)
▼EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR MORE RELATED TO THIS VIDEO▼
*Tools used in this video:*
-Whiteside large panel raising bit: amzn.to/3n2zmaR
-More Whiteside router bits: amzn.to/3tNqM3d
*Links promised in this video:*
-Video and plans for router bit rack: stumpynubs.com/product/adjustable-router-bit-rack/
-More videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/
-Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-subscribe/
-Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/
-Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/
-Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs
★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
Whiteside Router Bits: amzn.to/3436Tvz
*Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!*
(If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
-Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr
-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
-Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq
-ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7
(If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)
A potentially dangerous issue is the response of a router fitted with a large bit to external motion. Attempting to change the orientation of the router with a large bit spinning causes the emergence of a gyroscopic torque. Human hands have trouble reacting to gyroscopic torque because such a torque is not lined up with the movement imparted to the router, and this can be very disorienting.
I use aluminum window screen and cheese cloth on my router table to prevent saw dust from clogging up the router it doesn’t hamper the air flow.
You wrap the router with one layer of cheese cloth , cu the screen to go between the router and the bit to prevent the cheese cloth from being caught in the bit
@@mhughes1160 Sounds like a good idea. Would love to see a photo of this. Having a hard time visualizing it.
@@randallsmith7885 I have a porter cable 3 1\4 hp router with the router out and the bit out , take the screws out of the router cut a hole in the cheese cloth and place it over the router , cut a piece of screen 4-5” circle ⭕️ with a hole in the center and use the screws to secure it to the router over the cheese cloth. It will keep most of the dust out of the inside of the router , you still need to blow it off to keep the dust from building up on the outside. I hope 🤞 this helps
Question: for drilling a deep hole 6 to 8 inches wirhout a drill press, do you prefer spade, auger or mortise bits? Or something else? Also I would be happy to purchase from a sponsor.
As a novice woodworker, my family asks why I watch a guy named "Stumpy Nubs".....of course I tell them that he helps me not have stumpy nubs.
It's always important to learn from your mistakes, but I definitely prefer to learn from other people's.
He actually refers to legitimate stumpy nubs of wood, he has all his digits
😂
Much safer than watching a guy named Nubby Stumps
Tell them because he doesn't actually have stumpy nubs and you're learning by the best on how to avoid that yourself lol
Great video! The fact that you said that shouldn’t be used handheld is chilling. I just assumed that was taken for granted, excellent point. That bit is really something better suited to a shaper operation rather than a router. Vertical raised panel bits are much less susceptible to the effect of centrifugal force.
I had a small bit slip the collet and become a projectile and it was basically a bullet. I can't imagine a big bit doing the same thing. The small bit put a respectable dent in a piece of sheet metal a large one would mess you up. I got lucky that time and it left an important lesson in my mind any time I hand rout. Needless to say not too long after I went out and invested in a good router table!
Excellent point on the mass of the bit. I was thinking you want to keep angular momentum to minimum in something you'll be moving around and that is impacted by mass as well as radius (and speed of course). A better rule of thumb might include under X oz as well, which I think you were getting at.
All my bits are 1" or under light weight at the moment so never ran into the issue, but good incentive to finish that router table before I even think of getting something bigger (if I ever do; not a big router user).
The mass of wood cut with that 1" straight bit is scary enough. I'd never put it in a hand-held router. For me, I would probably never need it, much less the larger ones you talked about.
No one should ever operate a router "scared". Healthy respect is another thing.
Thanks for the video.
I have nearly the same router table set up in my shop. What are the rollers you are using in lieu of feather boards? They look like they would provide much more consistent pressure on the work piece.
I have a 3 inch dome bit that I use in my milling machine. I stand behind the milling machine when I use that bit because if it goes crazy I want those few inches of plywood between me and it.
As far as doing the math on the speed dial, are those typically linear? I’ve had some other non-tool items where that type of adjuster was logarithmic. Was curious if that was possible here.
Some are linear, some are log. I do what Stumpy said in the video - start at the lowest setting and increase until it makes a bad vibration, and then write that number down.
@@criswilson1140 I'm with you on the bad vibration method. Would be nice if manufacturers would make things more clear, tho.
Would you say that part of the control over the tool and work issue is also related to the volume of wood being removed per pass? That plus on the bigger diameters when it does dig in there's a lot more torque acting up through the router in a hand held situation. For my part only using a router occasionally I would be drawing my own line between hand held and used in the table at more like 1.25 to 1.5 depending on the profile. And in any case with the bigger stuff I'd limit the volume of wood converted to chips per pass to something reasonable. It's easier on the router and easier on the operator and if a little skim is left for the end should give a nicer finish to the shape to boot.
You mean like this: 6:32
Can you say more about the mph calculations?
I was able to replicate the 230mph figure for an 11" circumference bit but not the 120mph for the smaller bit.
I got more like 83mph if I use 4" circumference or 98mph if I use 4.71" circumference.
Maybe calculation is from a 1.83" diameter bit?
I rounded everything off, including circumference. If you want to calculate the precise numbers, start with pi.
@@StumpyNubs
Large bit
3.5in * pi = 11in circumference
11in * 22000rpm = 242000 in/m
242000in/m / 12in/ft = 20167ft/m
20167ft/m / 5280ft/mi = 3.82mi/m
3.82mi/m * 60m/h = 229.2mi/h
a.k.a 230mph
Small bit
1.5in * pi = 4.71in circumference
4.71in * 22000rpm = 103672 in/m
103672in/m / 12in/ft = 8639ft/m
8639ft/m / 5280ft/mi = 1.64mi/m
1.64mi/m * 60m/h = 98.2mi/h
a.k.a 98mph (or could say 100mph for rounding)
The conversion to miles per hour was a real eye opener. Thank you. All your safety videos should be required watching.
@Joel on a distantly related note, in-line skates' wheels can have much faster angular velocity than wheels of an F1 racecar at full speed. Blew my mind when I did the math.
Even worse when we in NZ convert it to km/hr........ about 1.6x more.
But I never use routers.
Would love a series or a few videos on uses for uncommon router bits. i.e. box core bits and joinery bits. In addition to some rare known applications for router bits. I watch ever video I can of your channel. Thanks for your content.!
Any thoughts on doing some James? Or a good reference article?
i've always loved stumpy's attention to detail, and deep dives into stuff, but i'd be lying if i said i didn't shutter a little when he rounded pi up to 4 when discussing the smaller circumference
A thought occurred to me when you were talking about routers where the determination of actual RPMs is guesswork. I'm a musician, and there is another piece of information a person could use, which is the pitch of the hum of the motor. If the hum goes up one octave, the RPMs have doubled. That may help give some kind of general indication, anyway. For instance if you know the range is 9,000 to 22,000, an octave up from the lowest would be 18,000, and an octave down from the highest would be 11,000.
Interesting and helpful.
That is so cool! I had to run out to my shop and try this. I installed the first free tuning app I found for my phone. I set my new Makita brushless/cordless trim router to setting "1" and the tuner reported "E sharp" two octaves below middle C (E3# I think) I slowly turned up the router and found that I could dial in all of the notes for about 2-1/2 octaves including the flats and sharps, settling in to A sharp at full speed. The it was time to come in for dinner so I cut my experiments short
Everything else below I learned in the last hour and it's so freaking cool!
E3 is 164.81Hz (cycles per second). Multiplying by 60 to convert to cycles per minute gives 9,888.6, which is very close to the 10,000 RPM advertised "low" end of the Makita router's speed range, and A440, the A above middle C is 440Hz, X60 , or 26,400, close to the advertised "high" speed of 30,000.
I still need to experiment more to get more accurate readings, and find a tuner app that reports frequency and not just notes, but I'm betting that when I finish experimenting and recording data, I can use a tuning app on my phone to precisely calibrate the dial on my router to speed, and I bet it will be the same for ALL of my routers!
@@christopherdahle9985 Yep! Music is just frequencies, and Hz are Hz. There's no reason a phone's microphone can't pick up the sound of a router and convert it to RPM in exactly the way you describe.
I note that if, rather than the sound of the motor, you are recording the sound of a bit touching wood, a bit with multiple blades will produce a frequency the same multiple of its RPM.
@@ps.2 With further (limited) experimentation, I have discovered that there are differences between routers. The little brushless trim router generates frequencies that correspond directly to RPM if I multiply by 60, but the routers in my two router tables (big Porter Cable monsters) my midsized routers (a grab bag of models found at thrift stores and garage sales) and the DeWalt 611s in my CNC machines, all seem to generate frequencies which follow a predictable curve, but don't "obviously" convert to RPM with a simple X60 constant. Also there was lots of noise and the tuning app struggled to hone in on a particular note. But I didn't do any experimenting under load, or try to determine whether installing a particular bit would generate more predictable frequencies. I didn't plan out a scientific approach, this was just thoughtless experimenting and reaching WAG conclusions. This fall I'll run the problem past the kids who are always asking for science fair ideas and see if one of them comes up with a protocol for accurately calibrating the speed dial on a router using a tuner or tuner phone app.
There's an even easier way. Just get a spectrum analyzer app for your phone. The strongest peak will probably be at the RPM (or an integer multiple of it) of the bit. The analyzer app will give frequency in Hz (oscillations/second), so you have to convert to get to RPM (multiply the value in Hz by 60).
GREAT stuff, James. Appreciate the massive amount of time you have invested in getting us novice (and sometimes 'experienced' guys like me) up to speed with these router tips. A table mounted router seems "safe" enough, that is until you have a work piece kick back and go upside your head RAPIDLY, because you got complacent. The edge speed of the larger bits is also easily overlooked.
The point on really tightening the bigger bits cannot be overstated, either. I had a 1/4 shank, 3/4"- ish bit come out while using my trusty PC 690 (handheld), as I have done countless times. That thing ricochet all around inside the router base before coming flying out sideways, while spinning fast. It took a few chunks out of my left hand before going 30 feet across the room (still spinning), and the entire deal took less than one second. I then took the collets out and did thorough cleaning and slight de-rusting to make sure I did not see that movie again.
Whew, you got *lucky* with that one. Glad you did, and good to hear you heeded the message and made sure it was a one time viewing of that show.
I personally prefer the vertical raised panel router bits. They are half the price of the horizontal raised panel bits. When using a tall fence and a feather board they result in a cleaner cut, especially in hardwood like cherry that is prone to burning. They are especially suited to a horizontal or pantorouter table if you have one.
I use one of these myself. They are called razor bits.
As a retired metal machinist I relate your comments about rpm & miles per hour to what is called cutting speed / surface speed. It is an equation that is drummed into you during your first weeks as an apprentice. Although metal machining requires much more variable rpm the basic princibles are the same.
I guess "speeds and feeds" aren't as critical in woodworking, but I'm surprised they aren't mentioned more often. Even if you're not calculating or referring to a handbook, experimenting a little can lead to better surface finish, less burning, etc.
Agreed. im surprised it doesn't come up more often.
@@benz-share9058 Maybe time for a separate tutorial on this subject: It might not be as critical in woodworking, but a lot of people set the speed dial on their power tools to "whatever", and wonder why they are getting tears and burns.
The feed and speed is far more critical with metals as can be the use of the correct coolant. The friction and low feed speed can kill the edge of cutters almost instantly. With timber in most cases the main consideration is the finish on the component. Low power motors running at reduced speeds are easily stalled as all too often an excessive depth of cut is attempted. Take light cuts at the right speed and the work quality goes up as the tool life goes up. It may take a little longer on the router but the finish sanding should take a lot less.
When you have limited ressources, sometimes using the wrong attachment in another tool as safely as possible is the only available solution. Converting RPM into meters per second m/s using Pi x Diameter and 60 s /min allows to size a bit or blade to safely be used (within reason, i.e. does it fit safely with the guard attached properly) in another faster spinning tool. Or how to use the wrong tool (spins too fast) to carve into heat sensitive material with a smaller attachment.
That's also how I calculated that a 7.25 inch circular saw blade would be at a safe equivalent surface speed for the carbide teeth vs the 10 inch in my 5000 RPM saw. 40$ vs 100$+
Great tips as always SN! However, one thing that I did notice is that you really do need more router bits! 😉😂
I see that wall of bits and think, "cha-ching, cha-ching"! There is many thousands of dollar bills hanging there. Impressive.
As always such great safety content here. Thank you, James, for helping us to stay safe and still make great products.
I recently used a hand held router for the first time. ‘Twas tiny and used for chamfering outer edges…I was scared for my life😅 Guess I got a ways to go.
The day you stop being scared is the day something bad is likely happen!
@@wiseoldfool Seems like that is when the bad stuff happens. We get used to a machine or work process, then pay less attention, then it happens...
Stumpy Nubs delivers great tips and tricks every time he posts!
Even though it's about a topic I don't think I'd venture into, it's still informative and entertaining to watch!
If anyone asks about a woodworking channel I would recommend, I've got this one lined up!
Clear, concise and to the point with examples and experience that ties everything together.
Heck, even the sponsorships are relevant and hits home better than most other things done on a marketing budget.
Quality from start to finish, marvelous!
I recently had the bearing on a flush trim bit come apart during use. It did not just come off, it came apart! Little hand grenade pieces flying everywhere. Scared the crap out me! And ruined the part of my project. Thanks for the video.
Yeah, the bearings can't take those kinds of rpms for long. Remove the grease and use lots of oil, keep them well lubed and maybe they'll last long enough to get the job done. Even though the outer race isn't moving fast, the inner race is going at router bit speed when contact is made. It would take a very high quality sealed bearing to hold up those rpms and they simply don't use those. If you can find good ceramic miniature bearings, they might be worth replacing.
I think I'd probably wear a poly face shield, kevlar IIIA vest, hockey leg pads, a cup, and steel toe thick leather work boots when using then bigger grey-area hand router bits. Jesus Christ. 🙀
great coverage, on an important topic...SAFETY.
I have a handheld router, and have used it enough to be afraid of it. I am a Surgical Technician, with 49 years experience. I have images burned into my memory of hand injuries suffered by "woodworkers " due to power tools. some of them resulting in the removal of digits, to include a hand. I have also seen the result of people NOT wearing eye protection. Polycarbonate Is worth taking the time to put them on. The violence associated with power tools, like violence in general, happens blindingly fast. pun intended.
I find your channel a great place to learn.
God bless
I've had a small bit slip once in a hand router, thankfully only enough to ruin the project I was trying to rebate, but that was a very scary moment. I didn't even notice it had happened, & it was a flat bottom bit so it only cut a little deeper than it should have, but then when I lifted the router & moved it over for the next cut, the bit fell out. I'm so glad I let the thing come to a stop before moving it.
I was making a breadboard end on a router table using an up-cutting spiral straight bit, and it climbed up out of the collet into the work. The cut felt a little strange but it worked, I only knew it went wrong when I finished the cut, stopped the router, and lifted the board away to find about an inch and a half of bit sticking out of the table!
@@thegardenofeatin5965 Oof. At least they tend to lose enough torque that they can't often keep cutting once that happens, but it's always the exception that gets ya.
Thank you so much for all your videos, I've learned so much and am always entertained and enjoy them. But thank you especially for these safety ones. I've used your videos multiple times to convince people of dangers, and you have definitely prevented at least one serious injury.
I noticed on your router table the roller bearing type hold down system.
Can you provide the brand and where they might be purchased?
Thanks, Mick
Jessem Stock Guides
Your respect for these potentially dangerous tools is why you are still a member of the 'Ten On Two' club :) .
Good information there James, thanks for reminding us of the dangers of routers. We forget when we use them regularly. About fifteen or more years back I was victim to an airborne router bit. I was in my small shed, 12 X10 feet; working on some oak for a fire surround and using a small sized bit. Suddenly the load came off the router. I had the intuition to realise what had happened and threw the router on to the bench and went into a crouch with my hands over my head and face till the ricocheting stopped. No impact on the body but I could see a few spots on the walls where the bit had bounced off. No sign of the bit ; I never found it till I cleared the shed when I moved house. It was lodged in the small gap between the floor and wall.
I have no idea why it came loose. Knowing the rotation speed I made it tight and the collet was fine. The only thing I could think of was that some wood chips may have got in there and it wasn't as tight as it appeared. The vibration shook them enough to let the bit loose. Who knows. I always make sure its nice and clean up there ever since.
My scariest experience using a hand held router was with a small roundover bit when the bearing on the bit disintegrated. I now check the machine screw holding the bearing on for tightness when I use any bit.
Just an idea: would it help (with the micro-vibrations) to start the router and let it run for a minute, then re-check if the bit is still tight, before actually proceeding to cut?
Thank you for another great safety video. Cheers
This is a great video. I find it amazing that with just about every tool you buy , along with the accessories, you get instructions on safe usage , except router bits! I've never seen an instruction sheet on proper set up or at what speed to use no matter what company you buy them from.
Thats scary i would use my planner jig for that bevel and you say micro vibration its like a fkn helicoptor 🥴🥴🥴🥴
When I worked at Albright's Cabinet Shop, I had to use what they called a 'shaper', to make these raised panel cabinet doors. This huge machine was a massive table model and completely open. It took considerable force just to push the panel thru to make the raised panels. That was my job. Had I slipped, my right hand would have gone right into the blade, destroying my hand permanently. So I agree with you in using this. It's authentically SCARY!
There's hand held routers, hand held routers mounted in a table and then the spindle moulder. The advantage of that is more rigidity and power feeding of the workpiece on the bigger machines.
Always found working with the spindle moulder much easier and saver than the router or router table, especially with using the aigner accessories
There are also pin routers and pantograph routers and cnc routers and machining centers not to mention that some of the older radial arm saws had router capability but the common rule of safety is that cutters that exceed 2 inch diameter are not for use in hand held machines ever.
How in the blue blazes do you keep your videos informative and filled with fresh tidbits? I have trouble remembering if I got out of the chair to go to the restroom or let the dog back in! Thank you for your skills and abilities to present them.
If your bit is as big as a ship’s propeller. You might be a redneck.
I tend to use the vertical router bits for raised panels nowadays. Yeah you have to use a taller auxiliary fence and feather boards on the router table but the bit doesn’t seem to work as hard and it produces less burning and chip out. At least in my experience with it. Of course the same safety precautions still have to be taken.
It's when power tools stop making you scared that you end up sifting through sawdust for your fingers.
With your tongue!
@@Nitecrow314 That's why Red Green recommends counting your fingers before and after every cut with power tools.
You should do a video on Shapers! We have some bits for ours that weigh well over a few pounds each!
Great video - I don't use large bits but I deeply respect the power those bits have at high speed. I'm paranoid as it is with my 1/4" straight bit.
Never put your finger where you wouldn't put your...you know the rest.
Woodworkers and their relationship with power tools kind of blows my mind. If I had a tool like that in my milling spindle I'd be nervously grinding my teeth, despite the fact that I'm protected by a steel door and I have my hand hovering over the emergency stop. Be careful out there, guys.
Dude, data rich as always. LOVE your educational content.
A bit like this should never be used in a router. There is too much flex and runout. Get a shaper. The only way I feel safe with my shaper is with a sled or a power feeder.
They have been used safely for many decades.
If you want to use bits that big, you should really be using a shaper. They are expensive, but are built to handle large cutters.
I was going to say the same thing. I don't trust a router with large bits even in a table but I do also suggest wing cutters and not flat shaper blades on a shaper and get one that is at least 5 horse or larger
I would guess that the safety factor is all about the Moment of Inertia of the router bit: if you were to add up all the little bits of mass times the square of the distance that speck of mass is from the axis of rotation then you would have that router bit's Moment of Inertia. That number times the RPM is the angular momentum. That number times the RPM^2 is the rotational kinetic energy. You can't change the mass or shape of the bit but you can change the RPMs
Exactly. In engineering school, moment of inertia was explained as "rotational mass" which helped make a lot of sense. So something shaped like a flywheel (more mass at the rim) has a greater moment of inertia than a simple disc of the same size and weight.
Old Stumpy Nubs would've made a joke about "I like big bits and I cannot lie." But safety related videos don't have much room for levity. Thanks for the informative video.
Holy unprintable catfish, Stubman! I'd never thought about tool speed in terms of mph and momentum; it was always oh yeah, maybe a bit wobbly, but thats just the way it is....
Thank you for your awesome work for us dummies (well, me, anyway)!
How's the hand doing these days?
Wow !!! You nailed it on this subject, so glad I watched it. Great work helping people understand and use this information. I also like the comment below about motor speed sound and using a music tuner and realizing the full octave difference with a bit speed. Thanks for your effort to put this together.
i would love for you to deep dive into shapers and powerfeeders, being it very similar principles as this video you would be fantastic
That’s a scary router bit perhaps but you’re right on the verge of moving to a shaper. Your straight bit and featured bit are best thought of in the shaper world.
The right tool for the job.
I never thought about the actual speed of the outer blades! Man that is some really good advice I appreciate you showing the difference
I've used a table router to raise panels and every fiber of my being was screaming no. It was terrifying, large bits should never be run at the speeds routers deliver. So I picked up a couple of old shapers. The induction motors on a shaper are much more powerful than the highest rated universal motors on routers. Because of this you can operate the cutters at much lower speeds with no loss in quality of cut . The biggest plus is you can orient the cutter so the blades are pointed down instead of up like with a router which forces the material down against the table. Many distributors like Grizzly sell high quality bits at prices comparable to their router bit counterparts. Finally 1 or 2 hp shapers are priced much lower than a high quality router. I found a 50 year old 1 hp Rockwell shaper for $100.00, and a used 2 hp Reliant for $175.00. this allows me to cut rail and stiles without changing bits. Both machines have footprints of about 2'x2' and can run on 110 or 220 with simple wiring alterations. Safer, cheaper and faster production. Just my 2 cents worth on the subject. Love your videos James, not correcting or críticising just offering an old dogs view on the matter. This old dog has learned a lot from you.
James, you absolutely nailed it again! I gutted an old junk Delta 43-505 shaper table that I bought off of Craigslist and gave it a second chance in life by re-engineering it into a router table with a lift. The router I used was a Porter Cable 3-1/2HP model. No speed adjustment (yet). There is no way I would put a large bit into it. After I made my own lift mechanism and turned it on, just listening to the power of that router earned my respect. Some day I want to convert it to multiple speed but it has a soft-start circuit which has to go first. Variable speed on that model does coexist with soft start circuitry. For right now, all of my smaller bits run fantastic in it. When I hit the Start button, it has my respectful undivided attention.
End of vid - ‘Whiteside’ bits. A 1/4” spiral compression (up down) bit was like 40 bucks😳 BUT..it..is..beautiful, a veritable work of art. Carbide is brittle (so don’t drop it). The fluting is clean and crisp. The cutting edges - razors. Shiny shiny…I wanted to wear it on a chain! A tool like this will outlast me and give smooth clean cuts with no tear out. Expensive? Oh yes! But it delivers every cent spent. (PS: I have no connection, this purely an owners opinion).
Rule of thumb
Everything is very dangerous when you lose or believe it's not dangerous.
Good video. I thought I'd add that you can use the SFPM (Surface feet per minute) formula for this application. Every material has an SFPM rating. You can find them all on a chart online.
The SFPM for wood is around 3000-5000. If you take the nominal, 4000 SFPM and times it times by 4, and then divide it by the diameter of the tool you're using, it will give you the RPM.
You can also use this formula to calculate feed speeds, but with woodworking, it's usually manually fed (as opposed to by CNC), so its hard to calculate that.
I'm lucky enough to have a friend with a giant shaper with autofeeder ... anything like this I give to him.
Well... you don't have to worry about me and one of those obscenely large bits... I think I'll find an older fashioned piece of doo-dah to work with and go about the older fashioned (read "work invented") way... I HATE when my pucker tightens up! ;o)
I have a small bone structure and clicky wrists and other joints. It was the early 2000’s. Spouse wanted a raised panel bit collection ( cabinet panels, certain types of joints) and holidays approaching. I walked into a Woodcraft store we bought from often enough… sashayed up to the router display, picked up a demo 3 1/4 Ho chunk and turned it over. My wrists came forth with an alarming collection of cracks, pops and snaps. The clerk materialized at my elbow and nervously asked if I was thinking of using it as a handheld router. Nope. Holiday gift, table mounted because needed to swing a panel bit was going to take a serious router. I rolled it back over to another collection of those clicks, crunches, cracks and pops and put it back on the display. I left with router, extra plate and four big chunks of sharp metal…
Oh my God that router is 22,000 RPMs and it only goes to setting 5. Just think if it went all the way to setting 10? That thing would be spinning at 44,000 RPM. Just think about that for a minute, it would be even scarier. That's obviously why they only gave it 5 settings.
Great video! Very constructive. I would love to see what techniques you might use to get reproducible multi-pass cuts. Might be changing bit height, or changing the fence or inserting a spacer board. Anyway, I'd love to see how you do that.
I have this Whiteside (great bits) bearing guided 1/2" dia solid carbide upcut (I use it inverted in a router table so it's cutting downward) spiral bit that I use for routing guitar bodies to a template. I call it the "murderbit". The LEAST bit of inattention one day and that thing grabbed the guitar body out of my hands, threw it halfway across the garage, and torqued the router right out of the underside of the table, hitting the floor and bending the bearing boss on the bit. Fortunately I was uninjured and the damage to the guitar was repairable. The bit, alas, was a goner. An EXPENSIVE goner. :D
Hello, do you have any experience with Mullet Tools M5 Dust Cyclone Collection?, I am looking for something for a Shop Vac .
Thank you
If they are big don't buy cheap bits. They are not balanced well and will shake your table/router to an early death. Buy Amana, Whiteside, CMT, Eagle America, and a few others or custom-made bits.
Racist router bits…… I’m protesting for equal opportunity bits… 🙄 white side ………and what if my router bit can’t define the difference between HHS and carbide?? That bit has the choice to have a carbidectimy procedure and become a “HHS” bit …… looks like we better add another letter to the alphabet peoples acronym as every router bit must have the proper pronoun.
Laugh but there are people who would actually claim this is a rational statement 😵💫
Once again thank you for an informative video. I think all of us have had a rubber bit loosen in the collet not a good thing. And the mass of that large bit that you did the raised panel with, that's some power when it's spinning
Worst shop accident was a 1/2" spiral upcut doing a box joint, had the panel secured with a sping clamp . Last cut clamp popped off and i tried to grab it before it hit the bit. I got the clamp ,bit got my finger. Almost cut the first inch of my finger off, cut into the bone cutting tendons and ligaments. Surgury repaired it completely. Have feeling and movement back
I've been using raised panel bits for years.
That first tip, don't use in a handheld router, I would Never have even thought about mentioning that in a tutorial. Never even thought someone would consider it, but I'm sure there are some that might think they could.
Excellent video
My father ran a shop and they got a similar shelf except some were easily 3 times larger. They never pushed by hand but only used mecanized rollers (sorry, hope you catch the meaning of that poor phrasing).
Quality of your bit is really important, in particular what your showing seems light stiff steel which is more prone to vibrations which is a killer as you point out.
I believe heavy carbon steel would behave better.
Power and quality of you machine would also come into play.
A question born of my ignorance, mostly, because I never really assiduous electric motors:
When you say "do the math," is it always safe to assume the relationship between motor RPM and position of the speed control potentiometer (I assume it's a pot) is on a linear curve?
I ask this as a person who has seen a linear pot in a poorly implemented volume control result in an apparently non-linear volume change relative to the knob's position. In other words, the knob at half position was more than half loud. Now that i write it all out, it seems unlikely my worry makes any sense... motor speed is nothing like sound propagation.
These videos, tips and product recommendations are always appreciated.
As a general rule, I th8nk if you arent afraid of a power tool you shouldt operate it.
Bought something like that back in the 80s...only has TWO (2) cutters!! That was sporty...
I've got some whiteside bits, I like them.
I cut the end of my right index finger off with a router table. Thankfully plastic and orthopedic surgery fixed my finger. Revisiting the incident I know exactly what I did wrong but eight years later I still have anxiety about that machine.
Don't be such a baby. It's only sharp metal thingies spinning a few thousand RPMs. What could go wrong?
Well you present a lot of dry technical details that suddenly become relevant when the centrifugal forces turns the handheld router into a vicious living thing wildly twisting around apparently determined to deprive you of assorted body appendage.
I’m kind of new to wood working, I mostly do electrical work. I rather appreciate your explanations.
I have a scarier one that was custom made. It's a reversed 90 degree chamfer bit, but it's made for loudspeaker builders. We usually chamfer the back side of driver cutout holes to give the drivers more space around the basket. This is done on the baffle before it's glued on usually, but sometimes, we forget, or we need to modify a speaker that's already together, so a guy on the forum contacted a tool maker and had some of these bits made.
It's basically a 1/2" shank with a big V on top that has deadly sharp edges all the way to the tips.
I lost the end of a finger to a table router.
I put the workpiece between the blade and fence without using guides, the bit grabbed and pulled the wood and my finger through.
Anyone who has a machinist handbook will know the “ speed and feed” is extremely important. I know there’s a section on drilling that can apply, not sure off the top of my head if there’s a section on router bits. I would think so with all the CNC cutter bits.
AVE taught me about the pucker factor scale. 1 being that's kinda sketchy to 10 being bring my my brown pants
Maybe router/shaper bits should have a hexagonal shaped shaft; sure that would require redesigning routers/shapers to accommodate them, but that could help with eliminating issues caused by vibrations.
Scariest thing I have ever used, twice and probably never ever again, is a gouging disc for a mini grinder. That thing has 8 arms with a carbide tip to grind any types of wood. Scary as shit and when it grips, you never know where it will end. Forget the leading edge and so on and anything you think you know about how to "grind." The grinder guides you, not the other way around. Hence the reason I used it twice and never again since. I still have all my body parts but too many close calls.
Anything turning at 35,000 rpm can and will crush or cut anything that even brushes up against them. Just ask me how I know. I still have my fingers minus some meat - which according to the doctor - was just the crushing force - not the blade of a rotor.
I can tell you from experience, this raised panel bit hurts. It almost took three of my fingers when my hand slipped when using the shaper. That pretty much ended my cabinet making Career.
You want to see terrifying, try running some limiter heads. If you have a shaper of course, I run their 125mm head, and it makes you clench.
As machinery's handbook has proper cutting speeds for nearly everything that cuts metal why isn't there a similar book for wood workers? Also, a digital tachometer is very cheap now so just make a chalk mark on the bit and measure the speed.
why wouldn't you have a shaper if you're running a professional woodworking shop? Router tables are fine for small stuff, but raised panels or any other bigger jobs should be done with a shaper.
My word that’s a very impressive collection of router bits! 😀👏👍
I don’t do woodwork and I don’t plan on it any time soon but I love your videos. Great channel.
Love the rack.
If you have CNC laser it would be easy to put bit information on each block about the bits. That is my plan when I build a rack like that this fall.
Use a vertical panel bit. They are 20$, not 150, and much safer. They are the standard in europe.
Can’t say I ever remember anyone telling me to use a router table for certain size bits. Someone did teach me how and why router tables make better cuts in certain applications. My largest bit is not 3” but I have a couple smaller ones a only used in a table.
Excellently thought through and explained. Very useful. Thank you.
Remember, power tools if used improperly will cut you three ways:
Long
Frequent
Deep
I agree the first time I used this style bit, it sounded like a helicopter. I was thinking- just say no.....
i would like to see a large router bit drop out at full speed. you should team up with some myth busting channel and make that experiment. you know for science. thing will take off like a top!
James, I kept waiting for the controversial approach and it never can, so clearly we are on on the same page. I used one of those table edge bits in a router table with a push block to create an edge detail on some 6” and 8” circles and boy, they took a lot of concentration and I still have one they tried to get away from me. Those large bits are serious business, but I sure love the results. BTW, it was a Whiteside bit and it cut perfectly. Great vid. Scott