Modern vs. Retro JRPGs - Which Is Better?
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- Modern vs. Retro JRPGs - Which is better?
There's been a notable shift in the make-up of JRPGs over the past few years, from design changes to gameplay shifts. I thought it would be interesting to collate some of these changes in one video.
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🎵 M U S I C U S E D
Sakuna Of Rice and Ruin OST - Cherry Blossoms
Sen no Kiseki II OST - The Sunlight of Spring
Ys Seven OST - Being Slow on the Waves
Blue Reflection 2 OST - Radial Terminal
I wish more games would bring back overworlds. They just gave a more epic feeling to the games. Like you were on a vast adventure around the world.
Same! It was so much fun to find a optional dungeon/town on a World Map.
@@Terranigma23 100%
i wish they would quit making modern rpgs so pathetically easy. i don't even bother with any modern rpgs, every time i googled them people are saying they're too easy.
i can always find a nice challenging rpg on ds, ps2, or snes. i have a ton of them on an sd card, many of which i have yet to play or i just briefly tried then out to see if i like them.
@@Jack_80 True, but at least the modern one ofen have difficulty slider. But yeah I still can understand your point.
@@Jack_80 In your case you would have to dig into the most obscure indie but modern RPGs, there's a lot of them, there's a bunch of Touhou RPGs on steam that released not too long ago that are very old school and are some serious business in the highest difficulty without being a grindfest at the same time.
You know you are in the right track when the only negative review complains about it being too difficult, they say you need to grind but its just them being bad at it, maybe thats what you are looking for, one of them is named The Genius of Sappheiros
Both are probably good, but I started with modern JRPGs and that sometimes makes it hard to get used to some of the older ones when going back to try them out
I feel like JRPG fans owe it to themselves to at least try the older classics if they're available. I never thought I'd enjoy CT as much as I did, they're well remembered for a reason.
I started with the older ones but sometimes I feel them slower or miss some qol from the modern games 😅
@@TheKisekiNutAmen
I'm almost 40 , played my share bot old fantasy style and newer modern setting games and personally more fun games for me are the modern setting/style but can't say that one type is better then other , just like you seid in the ending - it's all about having fun .
That's all it is, fun. Some people hate the first Sonic Adventure but I still find that fun even today.
I love Modern RPGs like Persona, Atelier, Trails, Neptunia, Fairy Fencer F, Tales of Arise, Fire Emblem, Project X Zone, Final Fantasy XV, and Granblue Relink for my new age when I was born in the 2000s and this is my all-time favorite Modern RPGs for best entries.
One point I want to state as someone who's first console was a Genesis (I made the wrong choice in hindsight) was that in those days story only existed in RPGs. All other games were just about game play, story didn't matter to them. We didn't get cut scenes in Mario or Sonic for example. Mortal Kombat needed the instruction manual to explain what was going on. RPGs (which was really only JRPGs in those days) were the genre that put the emphasis on the story. The philosophy at the time was: If you want to do fun things, play any other genre, if you want to get wrapped up in a story, pop in an RPG. That's why the genre still dominates with older games today. A good story is a good story regardless of it being 5, 10, 20, or 30 years old. That is an aspect that has evolved in modern games. Devs don't have to sacrifice game play for story anymore. Back in the day, kids made fun of RPGs because they were slow and boring since you had to wait for your turn to attack.
Both are good. But retro RPGs gave a sense of exploration though since we had no means of a map and we're tasked TO FIND a certain town, trek a dungeon... that was the true challenge for me
Hmm... That brings me back to the times that you really had to have paper and pencil next to your keyboard/controller to draw the map of where you have been to avoid getting completely lost. It was fun at that time, but I am glad I do not have to do that today. At the other hand. In those days you could take your time and read all the text an story stuff, without people complaining the game "does not respect your time".
I have the feeling a lot of gamers these days are extremely impatient and even reading a bit of text is too much asked. I have seen "play-through's" where the gamer clicked through all the dialogue as fast as possible, without reading anything because it was too much of a bother, only to complain a few minutes later that the game is garbage because he has no idea what to do. Really...
Enhance old jrpgs with modern quality of life features and imo it is a win win situation.
Nailed it at the end. It's all about having a good time with it.
Next would come story. A good JRPG can have all the game play in the world but should have a good story. A great JRPG will have a great story.
Personally, I will always enjoy the fantasy aspect of JRPGs. I tend to stay away from some of the more realistic atmospheres.
Also worth adding a lot of text-heavy newer RPGs borrow heavily from the visual novel subgenre in terms of storytelling and gameplay. Plus, gven we're getting a lot of older games localised for the first time means so many older RPGs are effective brand new experiences in 2020s.
Just dropping by to say I think your channel has some of the most unique content in the JRPG RUclips space, and I appreciate it
10:43 i loved blue reflections, and i love when all the charecters feel important. BUT, you gotta be careful, because if you overdo it, then nobody feels special or gets their time to shine. Not saying blue reflections did that, i think it split things up pretty well actually, but other games have done it less well. As much as i love the entire trails series, trails can be guilty of this sometimes, particularly with CS4 and reverie considering the insane size of the cast.
Dont get me wrong, i love both cs4 and reverie, and by this point, all these charecters have already had their time in the spotlight in older games.
For me, it all comes down to how much they get right. I like getting my money's worth out of my games. And with RPGs, you're always sure you're getting a decent amount content with a consistent level quality. Something that can't be said for most other genres obsessed with chasing mainstream attention or profit.
I was very happy that Dragon Quest XI managed to streamline the combat (i.e. you no longer have to give orders to everybody ahead of time). It is, in my opinion, the current reigning champion of the genre. A long time, for me, it had been Final Fantasy 6. I don't like to be stuck in the past but that bad 3D era was long, and even though DQ8 was awesome, it still had that very old battle command system that makes it hard to go back.
For someone who grew up with "modern" RPG I had my issues to get into classics like Final Fantasy VI, Dragon Quest or Breath of Fire. I think mainly certain game mechanics like random encounters dropped my motivation and endurance to really get into them.
Heck, even Trails in the Sky (which is only 20 years old now) is what even might consider as retro for myself. Also had my issues to get into this story pacing and gameplay after beating first two Cold Steel games.
Same goes for Ys, can't get into the bumping system of the early titles.
I say "modern" to myself but ONLY because I grew up with modern RPGs from the 2010s.
I grew up with the old ones and do not want to go back to them. Random encounters is a big part of the reason I don't wanna go back to play them. Also, the stories (barring some exceptions) are not as good.
As someone that play YS and Trails(even the precursor title games like Gaghrav Trilogy)from earlier title back then,i understand the complain about both Ys and early Trails games,for me i also welcomed the modernisation of Ys series,especially their removal of Bump Systems first on Ys Kefin,it definitely what attracted lot of newer gen fan around( i remember talking with some new gen fan around,a friendly dude called Cipher,which disliked Ys Kefin because it doesnt aged well,unnecessary spell system,lack of convenient features,which i understand considering the Kefin title was more like a experimental sort of title,having just removed the Bump system they had to tinker with the gameplay alot until they find the right formula on later titles,as for Gaghrav Trilogy,you can find some of it mechanic implemented on Trails,along with dozen references,though i will say im not fond on Cold Steel mainly because of the MC and the newer cast
Never been a fan of random encounters. I can tolerate it (or I wouldn't love OT2 as much as I did), but that's about it.
Nicely organized. I think it's easy to say, "Oh yeah, they don't really do [x] anymore," in regards to a certain series, but it really shows how much gaming (and the world) has changed, watching it all line up across different franchises.
I always try to cut out nostalgia when discussing games though it's difficult when you've been playing games since the early nineties
I was born in 99 and didn’t play JRPGs till I was in high school. Older ones are better. It isn’t just nostalgia.
I started playing dozen of jrpg in late nineties,i feel like there a more passion in older games,it not just about nostalgia,but i always appreciated older games considering despite their limitation,they able to deliver great jrpg experience that long lasting till these days,even though some of them doesnt age well considering lot of new generation fan always complained about lack of convenient features,since most of them started playing games maybe after 2010s or late 2000s period
(Like for instance alot of newer fan of Trail or YS hated YS Kefin considering it doesn't aged well,but for me back when i played it on Snes back then,it was breath of fresh air with much free movement on field,and the removal of Bump System,and for new gen Trails fan probably they wont think nicely of precursor game like Gagharv Trilogy,but i think it still a good game considering the time it was produced back then
I've played games since the early 90s, but only got in to JRPGs later on. I'm still pretty certain I would prefer modern entries even I started all those years back.
Good is good.
A lot of older games rely heavily on nostalgia for their appeal in 2024. The only way you can fairly judge the comparison is if you're able to objectively look at a game that came out 20-30 years ago and imagine how it would be received (including by you) if it was released in 2024 for the first time. Many games considered classics would be heavily criticized and even panned in that scenario. (some adjustment for graphics/tech advances included, for fairness.... but the core of the game, its story, mechanical systems, etc, would remain the same)
This is arguable, at best.
I get unbelievably happy whenever someone mentions the first game I've ever owned, Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. A soundtrack to which I still listen to this day as well.
It depends on what you mean by modern vs. Retro, if you are just referring to the time periods of when these games were released, then I would probably say modern because the industry is still so diverversified and you can play so many different visual styles that even use old traditional templates today that have been vastly improved with modern mechanics. How ever if we are referring to the technology itself, as in just the modern photorealism style vs. classical art and 2D abstraction-based graphics, the game structure, music. Then classic; full stop. I have never really been a fan of the video game industry, especially JRPGS moving closer to the process of filmmaking and being developed like a movie, because as time rolls on, I think it diminishes the artistic representation of the medium.
Also I loved the element of suprise and discovery in older jrpgs where you had a wide open venture and locales with different party members to join your cause, well tackling the many dungeons. This game structure has changed signfiicanty in modern rpgs and everything seems more streamlined and even from marketed in away to where you gain all your party members from the very start of your adventure.
I’d disagree about the lack of handholding in contemporary games, though you’re correct about what the games’ designers have done. For Elden Ring and games like it, the handholding has just been offloaded to a plethora of RUclips videos and wiki pages - an entire ecosystem that didn’t exist for the early generations (except for thick, lushly illustrated, licensed guidebooks).
Yes, but no, because the youtube ecosystem is optional, and many people avoid them, at least for their first playthrough. Even then. I only use youtube for pvp build ideas.
There are thousands of different ways to play a game. Hell, large amounts of people don't even finish games.
@@Cman04092 of course. But speed boost and other simplifiers in Cold Steel and later Trails games are entirely optional, too.
@@Cman04092 I'm one of those. I rarely finish games. Sadly. because of work and life and lack of focus etc. what is impressive is how rarely I see this come up online. if I were to go by RUclips videos and comments, I would think I'm the only one. I appreciate comments like this that point out there are people like me. it sucks. so I have more games than I will ever have time to actually play or much less finish.
That's the thing though, it wasn't done by the developers. All the elements like Humanity, Alignments (Demon Souls), sidequest tracking, none of that is explained in any depth, and intentionally so. These games don't even have difficulty modes.
I'd like to think developers don't really pay mind to what external third parties do with their game. They just have a design philosophy and they stick to it.
@@Faustustopheles this is where indie comes along,there are alot of short indie games you can enjoy!
I first got into RPGs in the late 90's but I do tend to prefer modern RPGs, and I tend to have that attitude with games in general. But that's because with video games, the new titles tend to stand on the shoulders of giants. Gameplay mechanics improve over time and build upon what was there before which makes the newer games more enjoyable to play. Modern RPGs tend to have more difficulty settings that you can change during the game if needed, and they're more flexible with saving, and are better at explaining their mechanics. So I find that makes them more fun to play. I still enjoy retro RPGs but when I play them I can't help but get thrown off at first by how less player-friendly they are.
In regards to the pace of gameplay you mentioned, I always figured the reason the pace was slower in older games was intentional to elongate the playtime of a game. Back in those days, with limited technology, most games were much shorter in overall play time compared to modern days. I never thought of this being exclusive to JRPG's it just made logical sense for any video game back in the day to find a way to lengthen the run time.
Been a subscriber for years. Enjoy your content obviously but i wanted to comment on
this one specifically because i think this is your best video (for me) yet.
Absolutely nailed it and the structure of the video is on point.
Keep up the good work.
Agree, new fans of the genre should at least try the old classics imo.
Modern probably. We don't have to deal with random encounters and not knowing what to do and where to go.
2:17 weird comparaison as trails as a whole is known for not requiring any grinding at all, as exp is capped and being on lower levels grants you bonus exp to catch up. As for the sepith I would say there are so many playable characters in coldsteel that building even a small part of them takes way longer.
Just my opinion
Sky FC did require grinding. Maybe not at the level of a FF, but it would soft block you if you weren't at a certain level, same with early Ys games. Not just levels either, grinding Sepith was just as important.
CS on the other hand much had no grinding, it was pretty much at parity the whole way through. But in that same breath, you could never over level either.
@@TheKisekiNut I guess if you dodged literally every random encounter in the game you would need to grind before a boss yeah
If you just beat whatever you found in the wild there would be absolutely no need for that and I can tell you I went through all games in hard without any need to grind apart from one single time which is Kurt's fight in SC prologue which is notoriously difficult and unbalanced
Personally, I'm more of an fan of classic RPG'S than the modern ones mainly because there very simple to understand and there shorter than most modern RPG'S. It has the perfect pacing, there were no filler or padding parts, there are no cutscenes or dialogs that takes forever to get into gameplay and they have the perfect length. Between 15-50 hrs is all the time I needed. Now I mean no disrespect to the modern RPG'S that goes forward & beyond and there are an few ones I can get into like Dragon Quest 11 S. But when I want to complete the game without spending over 100's of hrs beating it, I'll replay the classic ones more.
Retro. As our recent 'Top 10 RPGs' shows...
It is subjective. Meaning it all depends on YOU the game buyer/player & what YOU enjoy out of the experiences
Both are good. Neither is better than the other.
Pros/cons of retro:
+shorter, more condensed
+arguably better OSTs
+-mostly 2D (some prefer it, others don't)
+-overworlds (some people love them, others don't)
-very unclear what to do sometimes
-lack of maps/labyrinthine dungeons
-missables
-save points (most games had them in specific spots)
Pros/cons of modern:
+much better quality of life (things like turbo or autobattle)
+better combat
+better performance/graphics
+save anywhere
+-mostly 3D
+-objective markers and missable warnings (some people would complain it's too handholdy, others prefer the info)
Great video! Loved all the points made and the wide berth of games used to convey them, instead of just focusing on a single standout to represent the old and the new. The only point that I'd alter the discussion on is using Dark Souls / Elden Ring in the tutorial aspect, since all the games have "tutorials" in the form of notes on the ground early in the game telling you how to do everything important combat and item usage wise. But, it does still work in the idea that there are various systems in the games (humanity in DS1 and such) that are not described and generally the path forward in the "story". Overall, great video and am looking forward to the next one!
They have tutorials for the basics of control, but aspects like Humanity, Alignments and even side quest tracking are left to the player. I don't really see that as hand-holding; they're telling you how to control, but not 'how to play'.
@@TheKisekiNut That is a good distinction and I agree! I was conflating the 2 since the other side systems can be largely ignored whither by choice or accident.
As a millennial who grew up with these older titles, I feel like in a lot of cases, the people who claim that the newer games aren't as good as the older games haven't really touched newer JRPGs and are just going off of what other people have said. I just can't see how people can prefer oldschool ATB to SMT's Press Turn when Press Turn is so much fun. Press Turn is so high stakes and actively engaging, while ATB just arbitrarily lengthens combat duration and doesn't really add anything meaningfully strategic to the gameplay, particularly since the best strategy in those games tends to be "spam strongest attack you have in your kit" (Dual/Triple Tech in CT, Edgar's Tools and Sabin's Blitzes in FFVI, and FFVII Enemy Skill really come to mind here). It just hasn't aged well since the balancing in those games is kind of nonexistent, plus most of them have awful random encounter rates while more modern Atlus games have (imo) wisely done away with that element completely.
Every time I try to go back to oldschool FF, I just start to miss the cool ways that turn based combat has evolved, and seeing my favorite games from my childhood show their age kind of makes me not want to continue playing them whenever I notice it because I don't want those good memories tarnished, while modern JRPGs are fun to play and still have memorable casts of characters.
I think there's charm in the older games, especially with what they were able to do at a limited time. But I will admit, I can't play any of them without a turbo mode of some kind nowadays.
retro all the way. complete game, no dcl bullshit.
JRPGs (and Japanese games in general) tend to stay away from scummy practices.
Not everything in this current age is "competitive multiplayer" bs. Expand your horizons, look for indie recommendations, AA games or hell, even almost all current JRPGs come bug-free and complete day 1 (there *are* some exceptions like Soul Hackers 2 and Persona 3 Reload)
I think the reason for what seem of hand holding in modern game is because old/retro game have booklet that explain how to play the game, that's why rarely you see tutorial in old game. while more modern game that tutorial merge into the game.
Regarding which is better? I'm leaning to modern. The retro game that I have play, like Chrono Trigger or FFVI, I still play it because I love it and also nostalgia factor. But if I was ask to play retro game that I haven't play in the old days, I might not like it.
I kinda dislike the term “Quality of Life” for features, as it implies they’re inherently an improvement. I prefer to call them “convenience” features instead, because that convenience is sometimes beneficial to the experience, sometimes detrimental.
For example, if a game wants to keep the momentum above all else, the convenience of objective markers helps that end. But if the game is about exploring a world, immersing yourself in it, objective markers are still convenient but can greatly hurt the intended experience.
I think good quality of life features eliminate both needless punishment to the player and removes needless waste of time. QoL features should blend in seamlessly and make sense without making the game easy. Instead of losing hours of progress because of infrequent save spots, devs can add more save locations or auto-save to prevent player frustration. Good quality of life makes it so players aren't needlessly wasting time. Another example is leaving dungeons via warp instead of backtracking or adding an exit at the end like Skyrim did. It may even be making a menu more efficient, less clicks required or faster speeds. In Ocarina of Time N64, players used to have to equip the iron boots by pressing start and changing equipment. With the 3DS and Ship of Harkinian versions, players can map the boots to a button so they don't have to open the menu anymore to change boots. Less time spent in menus, less time backtracking, all good things.
@@EhurtAfy The thing is, “needless” is relative.
All of those things being removed can be important parts of the experience, depending on the game. There’s no one size fits all in design.
@@Sonnance Yeah I agree and believe the original experience should be preserved ideally. Not every developer has managed this. However in many cases, old RPGs just had bad design in areas, even the original devs would agree with many modern quality of life features if they'd thought of it or had time to implement them.
Further, sometimes the experience needs to change to or new audiences won't care about it. The original experience will always exist, so particularly for a remake, making sure a new player doesn't rage quit in the first hour is good too. Audiences have changed in the past 20-30 years, games used to be hardcore to make them longer. There were also arcade games which were purposefully brutal because they wanted to take all your quarters.
Nowadays people have WAY too many other things fighting for their free time, many people will just abandon a game the first time they're inconvenienced. Most gamers would prefer something that auto-saves, lets you battle in 2x speed, etc. It's not like in the 80s to 00s where we would buy a couple games a year and play each one relentlessly, we have thousands of games available at no cost
Yup, and using that phrase as it relates to video games is silly.
this, "streamlining" isn't an improvement its just casualization and subjective, a person that can't stand standing still will take any "skip" ability as a plus when its a minus
games were largely fine then and not standing long scenes isn't a plus to skip them or make them quicker
I started wayyyy back with Shining Force on the Game Gear followed by the likes of Phantasy Star 4, Secret of Mana and ultimately the golden age of the first Playstation with all its glorious games. What I miss is the simplicity and kinda shortness without rushing a story (I'm looking at you Cosmic Star Heroine!) but I would never want to go back. That is due to all the quality of life features that you mentioned. Those features are epic and fit into my lifestyle as time is rare and my patience has decreased over the years. Searching randomly for hours and hours because you don't know where to go or to look after items (I loved Chrono Cross but man did I lost hours due to not knowing what to do). I'm therefore love all remakes that include quality of life features :)
I think this is easy to overlook. We were more open to 'time wasting' in the past because we were younger / we only got one game a month. You wanted to squeeze as much time out of a game as you could.
I remember getting all the A ranks from Sonic Heroes back in the day because of getting the 'most out of it'. I would never even think to do it now.
School setting is honestly boring me when it comes to modern RPGs, I didn't mind it untill it became kinda too much (Persona, Cold Steel, SMT, SMT#FE...), I don't remember that from the past RPGs? I think fantasy is more prevelant in older RPGs compared to modern day or school setting.
I think we need more sci-fi, fantasy & horror when it comes to modern RPGs, also I hope JRPGs chill with the focus on teenage kids/high school age kids 🤷♀️
pacing is really the main thing for me. I can't play older games any more without some sort of turbo mode (be it using CE or an emulator or mods). I don't know how I managed to sit through FF IX battle swirl as a kid. It's like a 30 second transition on every goddamn random encounter.
Since I played Trails games, I have some difficulty to play other JRPG who don't have a turbo mode ahah.
@@Terranigma23 Same. I'm glad firdt time I played FF games through emulators too since I could just turbo too. And the newest remasters also have some sort of battle speed increase
I enjoy both, wouldn't say one is better than the other. Just noticed our youth has become more restless and constantly needs to press buttons to stay engaged. And modern jrpg's are kinda built towards that. But I enjoy those, too. And retro games were still in the "discover what works" phase I guess. But that is also so interesting to me just experiencing their vision. And sorry to say, but I really believe we are just so used to jrpg's that it becomes more difficult for developers to keep modern games interesting.
They both have their share of classics and we have a distorted view of both camps. Modern games have a strong recency bias and retro games are affected by the fact that we disproportionately remember the good stuff of any time period.
If someone says they wishes they could go back to the 80s because the music was so good, for instance, their perception is going to be skewed by the fact that the 80s music that still gets played today is usually played today because it's...y'know, good. Notably above average in terms of quality. Outstanding in its field. But there are at least nine mediocre to bad songs that aren't remembered for every one classic, so a time traveller listening to a top 40 radio station in the 80s (especially the late 80s) expecting it to be nothing but classics would likely be very disappointed.
Personally, I like the modern ones. I appreciate the retro ones but the qol of modern games can't be beat for me. I find myself always looking at guides at older games and for me, that lessen the fun I have for the game.
J
The unspoken factor of every old vs new games discussion that I’ve listened to is - mindset. I think the average mindset for the games we will likely enjoy more is already rigged by external factors. We’re all preconditioned to a faster paced, higher dopamine, gratification fueled life than we were 10-20 years ago. Those retro games some of us are just “nostalgic” about, are still amazing games that can be enjoyed as much or more than modern releases. But it requires a different mindset than the average modern gamer’s expectation. I love playing and collecting retro, but I still know I’m not prone to enjoying them on any given weekday after work. Sometimes, but not usually. But when Saturday morning rolls around, or I’m on vacation, it’s like damn.. I could really go for an older open world rpg, or some turn based xp grinding. I’m doing life at a different speed, my mindset is different. You can also work on your mindset, but it takes some doing.
Both are great as long as they are turn based :D
They're both great games in their own ways but modern wins on QoL features like being able to save anywhere.
Im older (almost 50) but have a good memory of playing the first JRPG's to come to the west, and consider myself to be a general rpg fan. The idea of beating a game and moving on to the next thing then had a much longer time period. I think me and a friend trudged through FF I for a year before we finished it. No internet, and magazines were where you got hints and guides and if you blew all your money on the game...well...
I was one of the few with a Turbo CD, so I played the original Ys. I took about 6 months to finish. Purchasing a copy on steam recently, I beat it on a weekend.
The SNES games do better with me as far as "retro" gaming art. The PS and PS II polygons and hard angles on 3d are not pleasing to look at.
I don't want to be too harsh to modern gamers, but I think the problem is really a lack of patience. That's fine, but there's a tendency to attack the quality of a retro game because it doesn't deliver things fast enough (called pacing) when this is really just a subjective problem of the player. There are many modern games, with simple graphics and high complexity (Im a fan of the tiled roguelike Caves of Qud for example) that require patience as well, and far too many people are theme park riding, wanting the game to deliver the experience to them rather than play and learn themselves. In the past, most people wouldn't be into gaming at all.
Im not inclined to push a person to play retro games for that reason, but im also not inclined to trust their judgement of an older game's quality.
Great video. I started playing jrpgs with games such as ff9,skies of Arcadia,and gradia 2. I love older jrpgs and newer ones as well.
Nice pfp
I just started playing jrpgs started with smt v and loved it
I enjoy both, largely because I'm old, but I've found that a lot of games that are considered classics can be best seen through rose colored glasses. I recently dug out my old Sega Saturn and installed an ODE so I could play games on it without spending thousands of dollars to do so. I borrowed Panzer Dragoon Saga from a friend when I was younger and I remember feeling absolutely blown away by it. It still has the most unique (and arguably the coolest) combat system I've ever seen in a JRPG, but the underwhelming story and character development feel pretty glaring through 2024 eyes. On the other hand, I did a replay of Skies of Arcadia at the beginning of the year, which is my favorite JRPG ever, and it remains my favorite. It could certainly use a remaster, but it has mostly aged pretty well, random encounters aside.
As someone who first played Panzer Dragoon Saga in 2016 I completely disagree about the story and characters being underwhelming in 2024 eyes.
The important thing is to have fun. That's it!
Memorables towns in Tales of Arise ? Except the snow city "Cysloden" and the big one "Viscint", there is barely none of them. Previous Tales of games have a LOT more towns to explore. PS: I miss overworld map.
In terms of their architecture and aesthetic, Arise had stunning looking locations. Less towns to visit, but they had more going on in them.
i got into JRPG's quite recently. i have played games like baldurs gate 1+2, icewind dale, lost odyssey and ff13 before.
i decided to play a mix of classic titles and modern.
older title can be a little harder to get into just off the control scheme or perhaps quality of life. but i have enjoyed them both.
playing trails in the sky off a whim has been the best, what a series.
but accessibility is a big issue. i got secret of mana for the switch. ( the first 3 games on one) i had such a hard time with the first game because there was no physical manual or overworld map i could refer to. the original game came with them. i needed a walkthrough map to figure out where to fly flammie. and i figured out halfway that you could set the NPC characters to behave certain ways and same with the weapon ring. there wasn't even a youtube video that explained these, i just had to watch someone else play and see what they did.
also the lack of story/ text kinda made the experience lesser. i would like a directors cut kinda remake.
i would LOVE a new release of skies of arcadia where you could toggle dreamcast or gamecube version or custom.
as for an overworld, it just depends on how its implemented. is it barren?, does it show the land and add to the worldbuilding?. is it just time filler?
and as for hand holding, i don't mind a tutorial. but with modern games come way more features. sometimes the game have gone too wild and it feels like you need a phd to play the game (baldurs gate 3) rather than press X to attack (secret of mana).
For me who grew up with jrpg in 90 both are definitely great...adapting the game from 2d to 3d or 30fps and 60fps feels easy and natural and i can feel the evolution from 2d to 3d...hd to 4k..etc2..and end up enjoying both..from older ff and dragon quest to a new one...falcom rpg like ys and trails series,xeno games,fire emblem series,smt and persona games,tales of series,all of hd2d games and many more...at the and of the day i just love playing jrpg.
Discovered Grandia for myself recently. Retro my choice.
Every turn-based game needs a turbo feature, doesn't have to go to crazy numbers like trails (8x), but 1.5-2X should be an option. Even if to only use on occasion, the option goes a long way to make a game far more appealing to me. If you want the next story beat asap, you can just spam turbo, and if there was an emotional beat, then just unwind with some 1X monster farming before getting to the next crazy twist.
Turbo mode is a must for me nowadays, or at least something to skip animations.
I remember like 15 years ago I saw a load of copies of chrono trigger on the ds in a large sale bin in Morrisons for £5 I didn't buy it because I wasn't really interested. Um obviously I feel foolish which is why when I see a game on sale for £5 I tend to buy
Both are awesome to me
Been playing these games for almost 30 years, and I gotta say, I just prefer the modern styles. I keep being impressed with the progress of graphics and mechanics, and it's always difficult for me to go back to old games now. I still very much prefer slower paced and turn based combat, and I'm sad to see games move away from it.
However while I play primarily for the story, I also always play on the hardest difficulty available, and I do find a lot of the newer games are just too easy, even on difficulty labeled as "brutal" or simiar
I play and love both Retro and Modern JRPGs, but I have played more modern ones as of recently. Im currently finishing up Trails of Cold Steel 2 and will shift to Trails to Zero next
I huge factor into deciding whether I like a JRPG, modern or retro, is how I'm able to get through the game without having to rely on a guide to progress through the game.
That is my biggest issue with retro JRPG's: They were made at a time when game developers expected players to figure things out themselves, or get inside information from game guides, helplines and friends. This might have been fine then when games were shorter and gamers had more patience, but not for the modern era where games are much longer, clues and directions are less cryptic, save states are more frequent and most importantly respect our time.
Retro JRPG's feel so frustrating when story and gameplay progress is locked or placed behind locations and mechanics, you likely won't know about beforehand and the game does nothing to point towards it. This leaves me frustrated and forced to take time to do research online, making notes I have to constantly look at whenever I get frustrated or don't know what to do. This in short: *IS NOT FUN!* Each retro JRPG is different depending on how your mileage may vary, but overall they are a category of games I do not play unless I have the all the time and forgiveness in the world to give.
10:00 this is the exact reason i have not played grandia 2.
the game looks cool and has good combat but good fucking lord the fact that you have to watch a 30 second fully animated CINEMATIC (which you cant skip ofc) everytime you use a specific spell is to much for even me who has nothing but time on hes hands.
Honestly both are still good if done right and improved on from the previous works, take trails for example, they started out as sprites from sky to Zero and Azure, then went full 3D with Cold Steel, while CS was janky and stiff CS3 improved and made animation more smoother, Reverie took it further and it was beginning on Kuro that all animation is really smooth.
For background, my first JRPG was Y's II on Master system, moving onto Phantasy Star II on Megadrive. Bit of a gap until FF series which, IMO peaked between 7-12. Enchanted Arms was a nice one off I had on the '360 but I struggled to find anything I really liked until Yakuza: Like a Dragon. Very much modern era. It, along with its sequel Infinite Wealth is to me the pinnacle of JRPG. I do prefer turn based but don't rule out other systems. I've really tried hard to find something that has the right mix of story, characters and graphics to scratch that itch. DQ XII sent me to sleep. Blue Reflection was ok if a bit basic. Combat system in recent FF games I don't find fun at all, and it isn't just because it is action. I have found fun action combat based games in the likes of Wuwa and ZZZ more recently. It's all in the style of implementation. I look back at retro games, and question if I can actually play them again. I don't recognise FFVIIR as a real successor to the original for example, but I also can't really enjoy the original any more as it is too retro. Some "retro style" modern games look absolutely awful. It could have the best content ever but I can't get over the looks. Where am I going with this? I don't know. 50 gil to anyone who is still reading at this point.
I appreciate the emphasis on game structure.
The home hub that I see in many modern RPGs I find really unappealing in most cases. I want to explore the world and see hat's new.
I like the mention of Fire Emblem in particular. The sense of world exploration is completely superficial in the series. But it always felt like you were on a quest, exploring new places on your way to a larger goal.
Except in 3 Houses. You spend a month hanging out at home base, then 1 day is sufficient to march to any location on the continent, fight your battle, then march home and then wait a month to march a little past where you just had a battle... instead of just continuing in a sensible manner.
No sense of progression. No sense of urgency. No battles that take you by surprise (you always get the 30 days heads up.)
Engage still had the Somniel, but there was consistent progression through geographically and culturally different regions on the map. There were unexpected events you needed to respond to, and after finishing a map, you could actually see the area up close and speak with the locals.
I'd like to see the next entry take the common sense step of combining the home base features with the post-battle map exploration features. This village has a pond for fishing, the next one has a mine, the one after that some shops and a coliseum, and being able to watch your allies engage in conversation with the locals would be fantastic.
I like both, but I think I lean towards retro a bit more. There's just a charm to their simplicity that I just love over modern RPGs.
One thing I can say, is that if you're short on time, you need to look into SNES generation games, and ones that directly imitate their design and length. While the quality of life might not be there in true old school games, when you're talking about a JRPG, quality of life really only partially compensates for the run time often being 40+ hours, and that's just to beat the main story and actually pay attention to it.
You can beat Chrono Trigger and FF 4 easily within a day so long as you remotely understand how a JRPG works. FF 6 also within a day if you don't try to learn all the spells on all the characters or min/max their stats. SNES games seemed very well tuned for both content and progression through the game.
I found one era of JRPG games to investigate cautiously is the PS2 generation. Many of the games had compromised world sizes, with Xenosaga 1 having like 1/4 the dungeons of Xenogears, and like 1 legit town the entire game. And you moved around so sluggishly, both due to slow movement speed, but also the fact that PS2 era and beyond individual dungeons seemed to grow immensely in size, and allow for less and less total places to visit. There are exceptions like Dragon Quest 8 and Tales of the Abyss being very long and very good. FF 10 was kinda in between, but still long and good. Generally the less realistic it tried to look, the more room it had to keep the world big and game length long.
I prefer older titles, especially the I Es I missed out on the first time, idk, they feel bugger and richer than some modern titles. Although some modern games are really good too.
IMO, barely anything beats replayability, so it’s absolutely Old ones
I always feel like non turbo mode feels wierd after playing the game on it
Timely video for me. I finished my playthrough of daybreak a few days ago, but craving more trails I decided to replay Sky FC and grabbed it from gog discount. I modded in the evolution voicelines and curated a perfect soundtrack picking my preferred tracks between original and evo, fired up NG nightmare for the first time and went on my merry way.
Now keep in mind, that I did like Daybreak a lot actually, Falcom games haven't let me down yet, but it felt way too easy on NG nightmare. I only wiped once or twice in one particular battle (you might guess which one). I didn't even need to really upgrade my quartz and just saved up to open slots. Always having an S-break available, and tanking everything with shield crafts made the game a cakewalk.
It's not just about the battles though. Fast traveling and frequent heal points take away all resource management aspects. Destination markers take away from exploring. Why even have a treasure hunt puzzle, if you can just see the solution as a waypoint in your minimap. At times it felt like I was just running from waypoint to waypoint.
I'm not saying that quality of life features are bad in principle (turbo mode and skipping animations are a godsend), but little decisions in game design can have huge effects on the player experience.
Now in Sky FC: I need to really pick my battles, manage my resources and flee if caught in a bad spot. Before I travel from point A to B, I need to consider my remaining EP and decide if I can risk it or head back to town. If I can't quite win a battle yet, I need to come back later when I'm better equipped or leveled. There's hidden things I can discover on my own with careful exploration, instead of by staring at the map. I feel like I'm immersed in the game world, instead of teleporting around it and always at full health.
TLDR; Compared to Daybreak, Sky FC feels more immersive as an experience and more like an "actual game", rather than an "interactive experience" (for a lack of a better word), and I might just be having a bit more fun playing it.
I'm the opposite. I prefer not wasting my time trying to find where the hell to go (I hated how Sky 1&2 dungeons have no maps). Imo what games should add is an option to display hints or maybe a customizable HUD. That way people who want to spend twice the amount of time can disable objective markers and maps and fast travel. Whereas people like me can enjoy the convenience
Both are good
I mean, look at games like Skyrim and Tales of Xillia, two games that nearly released the same time. Sure when it comes to combat and story, Xillia is miles ahead of Skyrim. But when it comes to exploration, then Skyrim destroys Xillia. And i think that has been kind of the issue for most JRPGs. In the older ones, way more hidden side content and secrets could be found, or small sidequest with interessting rewards. FFXVI, as much as i love that game, has 0 Exploration.
Yes the stories these games are still good especially compared to most of the Western slob that the experienced this years. But i think there is an overall lack of stuff to do in JRPGs past the point of main story. Sure some is there, some sidequest in hubs you visit. But they offer very little in going of the rails so to speak. I think the first game in a while that made me explore a map was Unicorn Overlord.
I
Modern for sure, we’ve had so many years to improve everything in JRPGs and now they’re better than ever
It does get better in term of QOL improvement,but at same time the storytelling declined,only Nier Automata in recent time still good enough at some extent though
@@Zero_Tester the Xenoblade games, Persona, Dragon Quest XI, FF7 Remakes and FF16, Trails games, Ys games, Yakuza games, are all still going strong though
@@GalaxyJakeYTthe newer Yakuza games while it was fun(LAD Infinite Wealth especially Ichiban title),the story aspect get worst than earlier title though
As for FF7R,it just a remake of old games,while it does streamlined the gameplay so it become more fluid,the story get more convoluted due to retcon and felt like more of fanfiction at some point,you don't even had freedom to combines Materia like the original because they want a balanced game.
As for XC series i dont find them as good compared to the likes of Xenogears(despite it has problems with Disc 2 and later section,too ambitious for it period with not enough time to be properly produced)or XenoSaga 1 though
Especially XC2,which i really disliked the cast,story and side quest section,XC1 and 3 is alright though
As for Persona not much i can say,since i never big fan of those series,with P2 3,4 and 5 as the only titles ive played,with 4 and 2 as my personal favorite
3 Remake obviously was better than the original version(with only the music being subpar compared to the latter,storywise it subpar compared to P2 duology and P4G)but it still an adaptation from older games just like FF7R
And DQ series has nothing expectional or noteworthy to talk about considering it always been like that,with Cursed King and Heavenly Bride has the strongest story out of all DQ titles but both still older titles.
The likes of which i considered as good are
Chrono Trigger
Xenosaga
Xenogears
Lunar Silver Star Story
Grandia 1 and 2
Treasure Of Rudras
Shining Force 2 and 3
Skies Of Arcadia
Vandal Hearts
Lufia 2 on Snes
Baten Kaitos
Romancing Saga 2
Steambot Chronicles
Love Escalator
Depth Heaven series
Odin Sphere
Ogre Battle N64
Policenauts
Mystic Ark(amazing OST,sadly the composer passed away before he became well known around)
Growlanser 1 2 3 and 4
Front Mission series
Eternal Sonata*
Grandstream Saga
Sakura Wars 3 Is Paris Burning?
The Last Story
ICO
Oriental Ao Tengai
Evolution Sacred Device
Parasite Eve 1
Infinite Space(the last few part of story is bit weak though
Tales Of Abyss
Koudelka
Laplace No Ma
G.O.D
Wonder Project and J2
Rhapsody series
Wild Arms 1 2 3
Shadow Heart and Covenant
FF6
Sweet Home on Nes
Kowloon Highschool Chronicles
FF Tactics
Lost Odyssey,
Breath Of Fire 2 3 and 4
Vagrant Story
Robotrek
Live A Live
Jade Coccon 1 and 2
Arc Rise Fantasia
Forever Kingdom
Golden Sun
Azure Dreams
Star Ocean 2
Shadow Of Memories
Galerian 1
Radiata Stories
Rogue Galaxy
Vanguard Bandits
Gagharv Trilogy(with Moonlight Witch and Tear Of Vermillion as my favorite)
Terranigma
Lost Kingdom
Earthbound 2 3
Suikoden 2 3 5
Seiya Monogatari Anearth Fantasy,
Earthbound/Mother 1 2 3
Ruina Fairy Tale Of Forgotten Ruin,
Fragile Dreams Farewell Ruin Of The Moon
Edited to fix Eternal Stories into Eternal Sonata
@@Zero_Tester calling FF7R just a remake of the old games is like saying all RE2 remake is is a remake of the original lmao, they’re new games with similar stories and characters
@@Zero_Tester Xenoblade is definitely way better than Gears of Saga and DQ is one of if not the best RPG series of all time and 11 is the best entry
About Quality of life.
I once tried FF-1 NES version...
In begining of each turn you choose target for each character. And if this target dies your character atacks air....
I didnt even know that this was once a problem.
That was part of why people thought turn based battles were strategic. After that was done away with you could spam attack through a decade of games
That's why Mystic Quest existed, it was basically FF for Toddlers.
@@TheKisekiNut oh its like Pathfinder. Its basically DnD but for those who like BDSM.
I'm a picky eater when it comes to old stuff, mostly because in generale when I find a thing in a game that bothers me deeply (expecially in gameplay) it pretty much stains my whole experience.
sea of stars: BOTH
Retro RPGs are still better, adventure, world, characters, music, story, plot, music are still better. But retro games lack some of the diversity of modernity and the clarity of pixel art. For example, to see classic fantasy star or final fantasy in a remake, but in the form of pixel art. I don't like the style of some modern jrpgs. The trails series went completely in the wrong style.
Modern jrpg have too much fucking dialogue. I just want to play the game.
I forgot to put that in my comment ngl, though it goes hand in hand witb them being shorter. But yeah modern JRPGs tend to have way too much dialogue imo. Older ones had the minimum necessary to convey what they needed or maybe a bit more but that was it. Honestly I prefer that
Oh no, did you just diss QUEST 64!!!! THE GOAT!!!!!!!! Yeah understandable XD. Man I used to love the hell out of this game as a kid but retrospective today and having played other games...man even if its still charming there's so many things wrong with it.
I can't with Quest 64, especially considering it was like the only RPG the N64 got.
overall retro for me, largely because most modern rogs are too easy with no difficulty options, so i have no desire to even try them. the cold steel games on nightmare mode are decently challenging, except for 3, but i'm not sure if those would fall under modern or retro.
anyhow, there are so many challenging rpgs on older consoles, i've played so many great ones for the first time on the ds alone pretty recently the ps1 and ps2 also has quite a few fun and challenging rpgs.
i've googled a lot of modern rpgs i might be interested in and it's always the same, threads of people talking about how it's too easy, which immediately makes me lose interest. now i don't even bother looking anymore, i've just lost interest in modern rpgs period.
retro
Retro was always better, as they tried to squeeze everything they had with limited resources... modern rpgs are all about aesthetics and the bling, leaving out everything that makes games special...
I still remember experiencing FF6-3 and Chrono Trigger for the first time... literally solid compilation of stories, 16bit graphics and well done musical scores. Used to listen to Magus theme on the SNES for hours!
I miss the older structure. Modern games have too much fluff between setpieces and it really breaks the pace. Like the calendar system in 3Houses is terrible pacing and I will play 10 more runs of Blazing Sword instead of ever touching houses again. Blazing Sword is goated though.
classic easily
still have to deal with at worse bad localization and censorship but even worse now by narcissistic localizers and agenda pushers in modern games for 'modern audience" that never buy games and don't exist
newer ones are easier but lose so much by being afraid to draw a line, "you don't have to play the old ones to understand" as if that's a good thing, it really means their legacy is meaningless to them now
they lose their core design even Mon Hunter Wilds now everything can where everything which defeats the purpose, its not "more options" to wear its being too afraid to say "guys should only wear guy stuff and vice versa" as if that's a bad thing now, just fetish and kinks over running things
and even tropes, looking at old anime and seeing so many tropes you won't see anymore is depressing for "global audience" cause they're being over run by westerners and their mindset