To be honest, one more cantrip and little bonus to Nature (and Arcana according to reveal video) does not compared to access to medium armor and maetial weapons.
I’m currently playing a level 5 Druid who rarely enters melee. She wears studded leather and doesn’t use a weapon at all, preferring the 2d10 of Primal Savagery when the fight comes to her. If I were using these rules, I would probably choose Magician for this character.
@@xdecatron2985 I'm glad you have a fitting option, it's just a shame you're forced to give up 2-3 AC for it. I hope your DM continues to never fire arrows at you or have things try to eat you.
I still think the templates were the best choice, but they needed... Uh... Better templates! 😅 Now druids have to buy 2 books just to be able to play with one of their main mechanics throughout all levels.
100% agree. Even thought the templates were boring, the UA templates would have made druids the only class in the game that could change their str and or dex to equal their wisdom score. If they had a bank of powers or skills that you could 'buy' to build your beast, the templets would have been top notch! As for the templets being too complex, they could have just had a few 'suggestions' for beast in the PHB. what a missed opportunity.
Just Moon Druids really. Most regular druids won’t need any beasts that aren’t in the PHB. And you can’t expect them to put every single beast in the PHB.
@@InsightCheck VERSATILE build feels like Ranger Fey Wanderer to Lvl 5 for bow, extra attack, misty step, and Social benefits. Multiclass into Druid Circle of Land for extra spells that can change every day. Take Druid combat choices for bow attacks. Get familiar and wildshape utility. Spells to control and conjure to stop enemy advancing while using bow. 😸
While I understand your concern about wanting to keep your forms up as Sea, WildShape has an amazing amount of uptime: 1) Multiple uses per day 2) Regain 1 back as a short rest 3) If you’re STILL somehow low, use a spell slot to gain another one 4) If you’re level 20 and somehow out of them, you start every combat with 1 (still dislike the “when you’re out” language but oh well) Regardless, I don’t think 100% Wrath of the sea uptime is unrealistic at all for most tables
@davidlewis5312 it’s not really though. In most cases it’ll be the same, or better. Even at 20th level where you had unlimited. Now, you’ll have 4 uses at 20th plus 1 per short rest. So unless you were just spamming it out constantly at 20th level, it’s essentially the same. And at 6th level you now have 3 plus one per SR. Whereas it was 2 + 2 per SR. Assuming you’re taking 1 short rest, it’s the same, and if you took 2 it’s only 1 less. But if you took zero, it’s better. Calling it a “nerf” is just not true. It’s just a different distribution to accommodate the fact that there are other features which expend a use now.
@@InsightCheckNo, it’s an outright nerf. Full stop. Because now, you are limited to the amount of shapes you can choose from, and don’t kid yourself into thinking that your DM still won’t limit the shapes you can use. Second, we had a total of 6 uses of WS per long rest. Now, you have a max of 4, with the option to convert a spell into a charge; which benefits no one but the Moon Druid. Being able to talk whilst in Wildshape is nothing more than removing one of the many incompetencies that were built into the class, such as being the ONLY caster whose subclasses didn’t get Speak with Animals for free. WS is nerfed even harder when you realize that you get 1 temp HP per Druid level. This means that WS is nearly useless. This is worse than casting the False Life spell. And it’s the ONE thing you do that makes you unique as a caster, it’s one of your core competencies and Druids have never been worse at it. At level 5, you MIGHT have 40hp, but guess what!?!? You get to have 5 more HP added to your total in WS!! And one Cantrip/Arrow later, those temp won’t matter at all. You’re no longer a competent shape shifter, because as I said before, WotC doesn’t take you seriously. You’re not actually turning into an animal, you’re simply casting a nature illusion. WotC doesn’t see you as a divine caster that is specifically attuned to Nature. You’re just a magician that couldn’t cut it anywhere else. Worse yet, most campaigns stop between 12-14, so the level 15 and level 18 bonus that ya’ll tout won’t be experienced by a majority of Druid players. And, if you choose Potent Spellcasting over Elemental Fury, WS receives nearly no benefit at all. So, if WotC want to rebalance WS, they succeeded in STILL making the Moon Druid the best choice, Stars Druid the second best, and so on. Let go of the fantasy of turning into anything useful. Oh, I get it. Your cat now has 45hp, it’s still gonna get clapped in 2-3 hits. And now you’re incapacitated. As a Druid, you are now officially less competent than you were before. No, this was not a troll post.
Very new to 5e (and playing a moon druid); I like the changes, personally. At the moment, I feel I need to run barkskin to cut down on the number of hits I'm taking, and the planned AC boost will fix that for me. I'm going to miss all those beast HP, but I feel it's a reasonable trade. As for templates -- I loved looking for useful forms (the trick is to get a selection _before_ the game session!); very happy there are no templates. I can see my character burning spellslots for WS when he gets to the right level!
The new moon druid is stronger than the old version (unless you only focus on the old versions strength at lvl 2-4, where the old version was broken). Don't listen to people saying moon druid got nerfed. The amount of temporary hp a moon druid can get during an adventuring day, is absolutely crazy. So don't be afraid to keep playing it, buddy :)
Love someone comparing a single target 3d10 cantrip at lv 14 to Natures Aid doing 4d6AoE damage AND healing an ally for 4d6. People saying land druids suck aren’t looking at the spell lists. And comparing them to wizards seems funny when wizards get d6 hp, no armor and no shields. So if you want to call them wizards wouldn't you point that out? Land druids also get an EXTRA spell of max level each day compared to wizards. That nets to = with arcane revovery. From 6-10th they get MORE spells than a wizard. A FREE Cone of Cold plus recovering another 1 is not weak at all. They also get goodberry/ healing spells, immunity to poison, Commune with Nature and should always know know which nasty monsters they are about to be making saves against. Being able to change resist types every day AND share with party is a very strong defensive perk. And Staff of the woodlands and Prayer Beads are a hell of a lot easier to get compared to staves of Power, heh.
lol yeah that was a pretty spicy one too but I would still wager that the sheer outpouring of rage from the community over templates took the cake haha
Land Druids seem significantly weaker than other circles. You missed the fact that Natural Recovery got nerfed; they can now only cast their 1st level spell from the added spell list for free, rather than any level like in the playtest. Their 10th lvl ability gives only 1 resistance and immunity to poisoned condition, while sea gets 3 resistances and flight with no concentration. Their two wild shape options also seem pretty weak compared to other druids. Land's aid provides only a momentary benefit, while other circles enjoy benefits for 10 minutes or even several hours in the case of Moon Druids. Their 14th level ability gives the same benefit as standing behind a barrel...
I think that is arguably one of the strongest. Maybe even the strongest. You’re severely underestimating the ability to change your spell list in a daily basis and the added spells in every list is incredibly solid. Sure the moondruid can be a bear, the Stars Druid can do some BA damage or healing, and the sea has a great option for wildshape but none of them can cast Fireball. None of them get 10 extra spells on their prepared list from a curated list of 40+. This is very potent and there are few “bad” spells there. Druids main thing is being a spell caster, so being the best at that is huge.
Yes, it’s the weakest subclass by far and it always was, aside from Dreams. Being able to change spells at a long rest is nothing more than acting like the (Land) Druid shouldn’t be an incompetent moron, which is what Land Druids were before, unless you Homebrewed out of it. You get a previously available level 2 ability at level 6, and since most campaigns last until 12-14, that’s now half your game. That’s a loss of competency. Land’s aid is going to be worthless compared to what the Moon, Sea, and Stars Druids can do with their WS. You don’t get a Flight speed until level 8 and you don’t get beast spells until level 18 so, again, if your campaign doesn’t last that long, you won’t be a bird casting a spell from 300ft away. Poison immunity is fine, but that’s still the most resisted damage in the game, so it just makes you normal. Plus, Land’s aid is a CON check so you STILL won’t do much damage. People are putting a brave face on it, but these changes to the class is akin to WotC chose to implement after listening to everyone complain about the class.
Yes, it’s the weakest subclass by far and it always was, aside from Dreams. Being able to change spells at a long rest is nothing more than acting like the (Land) Druid shouldn’t be an incompetent moron, which is what Land Druids were before, unless you Homebrewed out of it. You get a previously available level 2 ability at level 6, and since most campaigns last until 12-14, that’s now half your game. That’s a loss of competency. Land’s aid is going to be worthless compared to what the Moon, Sea, and Stars Druids can do with their WS. You don’t get a Flight speed until level 8 and you don’t get beast spells until level 18 so, again, if your campaign doesn’t last that long, you won’t be a bird casting a spell from 300ft away. Poison immunity is fine, but that’s still the most resisted damage in the game, so it just makes you normal. Plus, Land’s aid is a CON check so you STILL won’t do much damage. People are putting a brave face on it, but these changes to the class are akin to WotC choosing to implement them after listening to everyone complain about the class, instead of Druid players who love the class.
@@acephas3 you say that, but you’re grossly miss categorizing the changes. Chris from Treantmonk’s temple himself said he can’t wait to play a land Druid because they’re so strong now. You’re significantly undervaluing the spells you get and the flexible casting that enables access to spells not on the Druid’s list. It’s incredibly potent and I think you’re diminishing the impact a spell list can have on a class. A good example of this would be the 2014 Trickster Cleric. Its spelllist made it one of the most potent clerics in the game (at that time), even though the subclass features were garbage. Spell lists that can be changed daily atop the Druids already changing spell lists gives vastly more flexibility.
@@keeganmbg6999 It gives more versatility to still be the weakest subclass, by far. You get Natural Recover later, Land’s Aid uses a WS charge to AT BEST AT LEVEL 14 do a MAX of 24hp of damage, which is a waste of a charge. The spells are nice, but nothing a Wizard can’t also cast. This would’ve been better to also offer the Druid exclusive spells for free at each level. You’re just a nature wizard without the ACTUAL Wizard’s depth or breadth of spells. Enjoy casting against a CON save, which is going to fail more often than not, so your REAL MAX AT LEVEL 14 is 12 DAMAGE. That’s a slap in the face. It’s weaker than most Cantrips. Also, choose poorly that day and your resistances won’t matter. So, you choose cold resistance. Great, you’re getting hit with acid. Better luck next time.
Land druid was already an underwhelming pick. The new changes add some more combat usability, but most just for damage. Overall I'm probably most disappointed in it. They should have had a circle of the elements druid (incorporating wildfire and sea druid spell lists into them) and basically just took the chasis of the 2014 land druid and made it better. Switching between land types, but only getting half the number of prepared spells, really doesn't work for me. It feels extremely constrained still. The fact that natural recovery doesn't come until 6th level is also really bad. Then by putting all the elements into one subclass they would have had room for the last subclass being a circle of the underdark. Something themed around webs/spiders, like the underdark spell selection for land druids in 2014.
I am on the fence with Moon druids. The infinite hp issue needed to be fixed. But did they go too far? On paper, it currently looks like a huge nerf. Mainly for 1 reason. Losing Elemental Wild Shape altogether in exchange for a misty step gimmick and 1 advantage attack is a HUGE downgrade compared to a 100 perfect flight speed and temp 90hp with resistance to nonmagical damage. Or the giant swim speed, or the earth glide. So what will make or break the class imo is what new beasts will be in the new MM in the CR 3-4 range. If there arent any good combat beasts then they got shafted. What this means is moon druids will just turn into owls carrying daggers and flying all over the place with Conjure Woodland Beings, dealing mass aoe damage and pissing off DMs all day.
I’m a template fan and will be asking my DMs just to let me do that in my games. Ultimately it doesn’t really matter to me if the templates are in the books or not. If a DM doesn’t want me using a template then I’ll just make a different character for that campaign and come back to the druid later
Basically, the Druid class got nerfed HARD. You have to choose between wearing Medium Armor or not - at your MOST POWERFUL, you get 4 uses of WS instead of unlimited uses (compare to the abilities of other Max Level Classes), you only add 5 (max, 6 with items) to your spellcasting; The Elemental Shape forms had ALL KINDS OF GOODIES that you’ve lost. This class used to be an expert shape-shifter and that CORE ELEMENT has been decimated. It’s going to be the wrong choice to choose spellcasting rather than the Warden and Elemental Fury class features. They dovetail the BEST with the subclasses, including Circle of the Land. You are limited in the Shapes you can choose, you better choose carefully. Utility shapes are still no good for damage, because 2 HP at level 1 and 6 HP at level 3 will STILL get you clapped from the start of the game. Wildshape, which is the ONLY thing Druids do that is unique, has been nerfed into the Under Dark. You’re basically going to be a less effective Nature Cleric or Battle Smith Artificer.
Same. I mean they’re verrrryyy kiiiiinnnddd of doing it here with stuff like Primal Strikes and Lunar Form which just improve the stat block itself but that’s not the same.
well, truth is, Moon Druid... the COMBAT DRUID, is finally dead, sadly Druid lv x 3 is such a low hp pool, ppl might argue 60 at lv20 aint that bad, tho how often does campaigns go over lv 15, or even 10
Yeah, I'm level 10 and already feeling that sting... like, most things seem to be interesting but how do you expect me to be in the front line when my hp is lower than most, my ac is lower than most and the spell I can now cast...don't make up for that really. And imagine at lower levels coming I to this? 6hp? Which if anyone has inspiring leader doesn't stack with you?
@@poizenthorn2658 honestly i kinda dislike the level 3 subclass anyway? for some classes it just make too less sense for me. but i can feel your pain 100%, right now i have a druid in my game, he refuses to wildshape at all, which is sad for him and for me, i do allow him to use old rule but he wants to stick with 2024 for this run at least
I don't know, I think the Evergreen Wild Shape is kinda useful. You will never enter a fight without a Wildshape...ever. That's actually pretty good for this particular resource. It's not like, oh you get a sorcery point if you roll initiative, or you get a superiority dice. It's Wild Shape and I think that is worth more. It mimics, in a way, the unlimited wildshapes in 2014 which let's be honest, was nuts. My Earth Elemental form is now at 2 hp, oh no, what will I do? I suppose I'll burn a bonus action to just get all my hp back in another Earth Elemental form or maybe change it up by turning into a Fire Elemental. This kinda puts the brakes on unlimited temps. I'm okay with it.
So for me, it’s not that I have a problem with regaining a Wild Shape use. It’s requiring that you have 0 left before you can benefit from the feature. You’re at 20th level. Just let the player always regain one.
@@InsightCheck I get where you're going with that but to me the real value of the Wildshape is in it's combat utility. So, if you are guaranteed one in every fight, I'm down with that. Other druids might use them all in one day, but I doubt it. And all druids can use it again for the cost of a spell slot...any spell slot. So I dunno, seems pretty good to me
Basically, unless you’re a moon Druid, you’re just going to be using wild shape uses on something else because there is really no reason to use the base wild shape feature.
Yeah and I love it, I had a spellcaster focused druid that relies on wild shape very little that made me think that was a unnecessary option, while as a moon circle druid I used so much, of course
Honestly, it just seems like all of the new 2024 content is very watered down. Everything seems so mechanical and doesn’t have any contacts with the monsters and it seems significantly weaker than the old 2014 content. Seeing what they’ve done to Druids and my favorite paladin subclass of the ancients, I don’t even know why I would buy these books. Now I’ve heard what they’ve done with all the summoning spells and it’s just a lifeless stat block. No personality no law no nothing just a big chunk of HP and attack stats.
New moon druid is stronger. People just gotta try out the new ability to sacrifice spellslots for temp HP. At lvl 8, I could sacrifice all first lvl spell slots (and 3x wildshape) and gain 168 temp HP for one fight.
The Moon Druid is such a disappointment. You *STILL* don’t get any kind of bonus to your hit rolls while Wildshaped. What’s the point in giving beast forms a damage bonus if you can’t hit anything?
@@dyegoeduardosantossilva3659 They do but it’s way below what a mid to high level player would expect to get. At level 10 a player would expect to have a +8 or +9 to hit, the best CR 3 Beast, the Giant Scorpion, only has a +4 to hit.
I don’t think we know that for sure until the monster manual is out. If I had to bet money on it, I’d say you’re right, but we don’t actually know that yet.
@@jinxtheunluckyponyGiant Scorpion is "the best" because it has multi attack. The anklyrosaurus gets a +7 to hit. That being said if they were really serious about its just a form and you aren't literally the animal then one of the game stats that you should keep is your Proficiency Bonus. That would make Scorpion +6 and Ankly +9.
Moon Druids being able to cast their Circle Spells in Wildshape is good. Kuma & Panda still playable in Dnd. Tavern Brawler for Salmon Rage Art. Limelight it up with Moonbeam & Grapple.
This druid sucks, you don't see it, it's super nerfed, it could be that they never played with one or they don't have any common sense. If before, the druda was used little, now it will be used less.
The Imp and Quasit stat blocks should let us know about the whole “ resistance to non-magical B/P/S” damage thing. Those stat blocks are in the book and I want to see them sooooo badly.
To be honest, one more cantrip and little bonus to Nature (and Arcana according to reveal video) does not compared to access to medium armor and maetial weapons.
I think I'll be running it as Heavy Armor instead for Warden, with Medium being the base class. Now it's more of a choice.
@@CantripNWotC tied Medium Armor proficiency with Warden feature.
Light armor and Shield is in the base now.
@@kwaksea
Yeah, that's why I'm gonna change it.
I’m currently playing a level 5 Druid who rarely enters melee. She wears studded leather and doesn’t use a weapon at all, preferring the 2d10 of Primal Savagery when the fight comes to her. If I were using these rules, I would probably choose Magician for this character.
@@xdecatron2985
I'm glad you have a fitting option, it's just a shame you're forced to give up 2-3 AC for it. I hope your DM continues to never fire arrows at you or have things try to eat you.
Wow, between the changes to Barbarian Rage (Path of the Bear) and Druid Wild Shape it's pretty clear the folks at WotC don't like tanks.
Or being immortal
@@EpicRandomness555 We wouldn't want some classes to expect to be challenged in ways outside of flat damage burn, now would we?
I fundamentally disagree. They don’t want you to be ridiculous, which they previously were.
No, they don’t like Druids as a class and the changes make that clear.
@@keeganmbg6999 yet they buffed wizard spell damage...
I still think the templates were the best choice, but they needed... Uh... Better templates! 😅
Now druids have to buy 2 books just to be able to play with one of their main mechanics throughout all levels.
Yeah exactly. I fully agree the templates were the best just but they just needed to be a lot better than what we saw.
100% agree. Even thought the templates were boring, the UA templates would have made druids the only class in the game that could change their str and or dex to equal their wisdom score. If they had a bank of powers or skills that you could 'buy' to build your beast, the templets would have been top notch! As for the templets being too complex, they could have just had a few 'suggestions' for beast in the PHB. what a missed opportunity.
@dwgautier it was a massively missed opportunity. I know I said I would stop lamenting the loss of them but I guess I lied lol
Just Moon Druids really. Most regular druids won’t need any beasts that aren’t in the PHB. And you can’t expect them to put every single beast in the PHB.
@@InsightCheck VERSATILE build feels like Ranger Fey Wanderer to Lvl 5 for bow, extra attack, misty step, and Social benefits.
Multiclass into Druid Circle of Land for extra spells that can change every day. Take Druid combat choices for bow attacks. Get familiar and wildshape utility. Spells to control and conjure to stop enemy advancing while using bow.
😸
While I understand your concern about wanting to keep your forms up as Sea, WildShape has an amazing amount of uptime:
1) Multiple uses per day
2) Regain 1 back as a short rest
3) If you’re STILL somehow low, use a spell slot to gain another one
4) If you’re level 20 and somehow out of them, you start every combat with 1 (still dislike the “when you’re out” language but oh well)
Regardless, I don’t think 100% Wrath of the sea uptime is unrealistic at all for most tables
That's all a nerf
Previously you got all back on a short rest and level 20 had unlimited uses
@davidlewis5312 it’s not really though. In most cases it’ll be the same, or better. Even at 20th level where you had unlimited. Now, you’ll have 4 uses at 20th plus 1 per short rest. So unless you were just spamming it out constantly at 20th level, it’s essentially the same.
And at 6th level you now have 3 plus one per SR. Whereas it was 2 + 2 per SR. Assuming you’re taking 1 short rest, it’s the same, and if you took 2 it’s only 1 less. But if you took zero, it’s better. Calling it a “nerf” is just not true. It’s just a different distribution to accommodate the fact that there are other features which expend a use now.
@@InsightCheck exactly! Also, frankly, removing resource expenditure is just…silly. I’m glad it’s rebalanced this way
@@InsightCheckNo, it’s an outright nerf. Full stop. Because now, you are limited to the amount of shapes you can choose from, and don’t kid yourself into thinking that your DM still won’t limit the shapes you can use. Second, we had a total of 6 uses of WS per long rest. Now, you have a max of 4, with the option to convert a spell into a charge; which benefits no one but the Moon Druid.
Being able to talk whilst in Wildshape is nothing more than removing one of the many incompetencies that were built into the class, such as being the ONLY caster whose subclasses didn’t get Speak with Animals for free.
WS is nerfed even harder when you realize that you get 1 temp HP per Druid level. This means that WS is nearly useless. This is worse than casting the False Life spell. And it’s the ONE thing you do that makes you unique as a caster, it’s one of your core competencies and Druids have never been worse at it. At level 5, you MIGHT have 40hp, but guess what!?!? You get to have 5 more HP added to your total in WS!! And one Cantrip/Arrow later, those temp won’t matter at all. You’re no longer a competent shape shifter, because as I said before, WotC doesn’t take you seriously. You’re not actually turning into an animal, you’re simply casting a nature illusion. WotC doesn’t see you as a divine caster that is specifically attuned to Nature. You’re just a magician that couldn’t cut it anywhere else.
Worse yet, most campaigns stop between 12-14, so the level 15 and level 18 bonus that ya’ll tout won’t be experienced by a majority of Druid players.
And, if you choose Potent Spellcasting over Elemental Fury, WS receives nearly no benefit at all.
So, if WotC want to rebalance WS, they succeeded in STILL making the Moon Druid the best choice, Stars Druid the second best, and so on.
Let go of the fantasy of turning into anything useful. Oh, I get it. Your cat now has 45hp, it’s still gonna get clapped in 2-3 hits. And now you’re incapacitated.
As a Druid, you are now officially less competent than you were before.
No, this was not a troll post.
@acephas3 lol ok
Very new to 5e (and playing a moon druid); I like the changes, personally. At the moment, I feel I need to run barkskin to cut down on the number of hits I'm taking, and the planned AC boost will fix that for me. I'm going to miss all those beast HP, but I feel it's a reasonable trade. As for templates -- I loved looking for useful forms (the trick is to get a selection _before_ the game session!); very happy there are no templates.
I can see my character burning spellslots for WS when he gets to the right level!
The new moon druid is stronger than the old version (unless you only focus on the old versions strength at lvl 2-4, where the old version was broken).
Don't listen to people saying moon druid got nerfed. The amount of temporary hp a moon druid can get during an adventuring day, is absolutely crazy.
So don't be afraid to keep playing it, buddy :)
Love someone comparing a single target 3d10 cantrip at lv 14 to Natures Aid doing 4d6AoE damage AND healing an ally for 4d6.
People saying land druids suck aren’t looking at the spell lists. And comparing them to wizards seems funny when wizards get d6 hp, no armor and no shields. So if you want to call them wizards wouldn't you point that out? Land druids also get an EXTRA spell of max level each day compared to wizards. That nets to = with arcane revovery. From 6-10th they get MORE spells than a wizard. A FREE Cone of Cold plus recovering another 1 is not weak at all.
They also get goodberry/ healing spells, immunity to poison, Commune with Nature and should always know know which nasty monsters they are about to be making saves against. Being able to change resist types every day AND share with party is a very strong defensive perk. And Staff of the woodlands and Prayer Beads are a hell of a lot easier to get compared to staves of Power, heh.
Wish there was an ac difference between my normal body and a turtle shell. Lots of flavor was lost with the ac change
The flavor of a turtle shell having 5 less AC than your normal armored body?
@@XanderHarris1023 guess so. I have only played druid once and I made an a$$ out of myself assuming turtles had higher ac.
They needed templates, at least for Moon Druids that were actually going to be getting into melee combat.
Do class features from other classes still work while in Wild Shape, such as Monk’s Unarmored Defense?
Yes, though physical stats are replaced by the forms
"None of the updates were more controversial than the Druid." Divine Smite would like a word, sir 😂
lol yeah that was a pretty spicy one too but I would still wager that the sheer outpouring of rage from the community over templates took the cake haha
Smite being once per turn means no power game nova round. The original UA made wildshape unplayable
And today everyone forgot about Smite because the Ranger turned out to be an absolute dumpster fire.
@@tiradegrandmarshal oh no really? I'm waiting for the reaction video here and from others
@@mattwithoutfear It's bad. Really, really bad.
Land Druids seem significantly weaker than other circles. You missed the fact that Natural Recovery got nerfed; they can now only cast their 1st level spell from the added spell list for free, rather than any level like in the playtest. Their 10th lvl ability gives only 1 resistance and immunity to poisoned condition, while sea gets 3 resistances and flight with no concentration. Their two wild shape options also seem pretty weak compared to other druids. Land's aid provides only a momentary benefit, while other circles enjoy benefits for 10 minutes or even several hours in the case of Moon Druids. Their 14th level ability gives the same benefit as standing behind a barrel...
I think that is arguably one of the strongest. Maybe even the strongest. You’re severely underestimating the ability to change your spell list in a daily basis and the added spells in every list is incredibly solid. Sure the moondruid can be a bear, the Stars Druid can do some BA damage or healing, and the sea has a great option for wildshape but none of them can cast Fireball. None of them get 10 extra spells on their prepared list from a curated list of 40+. This is very potent and there are few “bad” spells there. Druids main thing is being a spell caster, so being the best at that is huge.
Yes, it’s the weakest subclass by far and it always was, aside from Dreams. Being able to change spells at a long rest is nothing more than acting like the (Land) Druid shouldn’t be an incompetent moron, which is what Land Druids were before, unless you Homebrewed out of it. You get a previously available level 2 ability at level 6, and since most campaigns last until 12-14, that’s now half your game. That’s a loss of competency. Land’s aid is going to be worthless compared to what the Moon, Sea, and Stars Druids can do with their WS. You don’t get a Flight speed until level 8 and you don’t get beast spells until level 18 so, again, if your campaign doesn’t last that long, you won’t be a bird casting a spell from 300ft away.
Poison immunity is fine, but that’s still the most resisted damage in the game, so it just makes you normal. Plus, Land’s aid is a CON check so you STILL won’t do much damage.
People are putting a brave face on it, but these changes to the class is akin to WotC chose to implement after listening to everyone complain about the class.
Yes, it’s the weakest subclass by far and it always was, aside from Dreams. Being able to change spells at a long rest is nothing more than acting like the (Land) Druid shouldn’t be an incompetent moron, which is what Land Druids were before, unless you Homebrewed out of it. You get a previously available level 2 ability at level 6, and since most campaigns last until 12-14, that’s now half your game. That’s a loss of competency. Land’s aid is going to be worthless compared to what the Moon, Sea, and Stars Druids can do with their WS. You don’t get a Flight speed until level 8 and you don’t get beast spells until level 18 so, again, if your campaign doesn’t last that long, you won’t be a bird casting a spell from 300ft away.
Poison immunity is fine, but that’s still the most resisted damage in the game, so it just makes you normal. Plus, Land’s aid is a CON check so you STILL won’t do much damage.
People are putting a brave face on it, but these changes to the class are akin to WotC choosing to implement them after listening to everyone complain about the class, instead of Druid players who love the class.
@@acephas3 you say that, but you’re grossly miss categorizing the changes. Chris from Treantmonk’s temple himself said he can’t wait to play a land Druid because they’re so strong now. You’re significantly undervaluing the spells you get and the flexible casting that enables access to spells not on the Druid’s list. It’s incredibly potent and I think you’re diminishing the impact a spell list can have on a class. A good example of this would be the 2014 Trickster Cleric. Its spelllist made it one of the most potent clerics in the game (at that time), even though the subclass features were garbage. Spell lists that can be changed daily atop the Druids already changing spell lists gives vastly more flexibility.
@@keeganmbg6999 It gives more versatility to still be the weakest subclass, by far. You get Natural Recover later, Land’s Aid uses a WS charge to AT BEST AT LEVEL 14 do a MAX of 24hp of damage, which is a waste of a charge. The spells are nice, but nothing a Wizard can’t also cast. This would’ve been better to also offer the Druid exclusive spells for free at each level.
You’re just a nature wizard without the ACTUAL Wizard’s depth or breadth of spells. Enjoy casting against a CON save, which is going to fail more often than not, so your REAL MAX AT LEVEL 14 is 12 DAMAGE. That’s a slap in the face. It’s weaker than most Cantrips.
Also, choose poorly that day and your resistances won’t matter. So, you choose cold resistance. Great, you’re getting hit with acid. Better luck next time.
Land druid was already an underwhelming pick. The new changes add some more combat usability, but most just for damage. Overall I'm probably most disappointed in it. They should have had a circle of the elements druid (incorporating wildfire and sea druid spell lists into them) and basically just took the chasis of the 2014 land druid and made it better. Switching between land types, but only getting half the number of prepared spells, really doesn't work for me. It feels extremely constrained still. The fact that natural recovery doesn't come until 6th level is also really bad.
Then by putting all the elements into one subclass they would have had room for the last subclass being a circle of the underdark. Something themed around webs/spiders, like the underdark spell selection for land druids in 2014.
If they do end up doing this I just hope they end up giving the underdark circle a cool name, something like "Circle of Depths" could work
Really looking forward to the Druid! Awesome video, love your channel
Thank you so much :)
I am on the fence with Moon druids. The infinite hp issue needed to be fixed. But did they go too far? On paper, it currently looks like a huge nerf. Mainly for 1 reason. Losing Elemental Wild Shape altogether in exchange for a misty step gimmick and 1 advantage attack is a HUGE downgrade compared to a 100 perfect flight speed and temp 90hp with resistance to nonmagical damage. Or the giant swim speed, or the earth glide.
So what will make or break the class imo is what new beasts will be in the new MM in the CR 3-4 range. If there arent any good combat beasts then they got shafted.
What this means is moon druids will just turn into owls carrying daggers and flying all over the place with Conjure Woodland Beings, dealing mass aoe damage and pissing off DMs all day.
PF1 did amazing work on wild shape and polymorph like spells - I wish they’d use that 🤦🏿♀️
It would be cool if they made a new subclass based off of turning into elementals.
That would work with templates too
I’m a template fan and will be asking my DMs just to let me do that in my games. Ultimately it doesn’t really matter to me if the templates are in the books or not. If a DM doesn’t want me using a template then I’ll just make a different character for that campaign and come back to the druid later
it is fun that you remember wrong on the land druid the phb2014 also gives poison immunity.
Basically, the Druid class got nerfed HARD.
You have to choose between wearing Medium Armor or not - at your MOST POWERFUL, you get 4 uses of WS instead of unlimited uses (compare to the abilities of other Max Level Classes), you only add 5 (max, 6 with items) to your spellcasting;
The Elemental Shape forms had ALL KINDS OF GOODIES that you’ve lost.
This class used to be an expert shape-shifter and that CORE ELEMENT has been decimated.
It’s going to be the wrong choice to choose spellcasting rather than the Warden and Elemental Fury class features. They dovetail the BEST with the subclasses, including Circle of the Land.
You are limited in the Shapes you can choose, you better choose carefully.
Utility shapes are still no good for damage, because 2 HP at level 1 and 6 HP at level 3 will STILL get you clapped from the start of the game.
Wildshape, which is the ONLY thing Druids do that is unique, has been nerfed into the Under Dark. You’re basically going to be a less effective Nature Cleric or Battle Smith Artificer.
Stumbled across your channel and really enjoy your content 😊
Thank you so much! I really appreciate that :)
I miss the templates :( I wish they’d have given that another try
Same. I mean they’re verrrryyy kiiiiinnnddd of doing it here with stuff like Primal Strikes and Lunar Form which just improve the stat block itself but that’s not the same.
I haven't seen much of em, but I feel they can AT LEAST give them to a new subclass or something.
well, truth is, Moon Druid... the COMBAT DRUID, is finally dead, sadly
Druid lv x 3 is such a low hp pool, ppl might argue 60 at lv20 aint that bad, tho how often does campaigns go over lv 15, or even 10
Yeah, I'm level 10 and already feeling that sting... like, most things seem to be interesting but how do you expect me to be in the front line when my hp is lower than most, my ac is lower than most and the spell I can now cast...don't make up for that really.
And imagine at lower levels coming I to this? 6hp? Which if anyone has inspiring leader doesn't stack with you?
@@poizenthorn2658 yep, it is 9 at lv3...
and the tempo hp stack thing is the neat part i never thought about, that is so much pain...
@@moriyasanae8130 forgot su class started at lvl 3... that I don't mind in general but... that's it.
@@poizenthorn2658 honestly i kinda dislike the level 3 subclass anyway? for some classes it just make too less sense for me.
but i can feel your pain 100%, right now i have a druid in my game, he refuses to wildshape at all, which is sad for him and for me, i do allow him to use old rule but he wants to stick with 2024 for this run at least
I don't know, I think the Evergreen Wild Shape is kinda useful. You will never enter a fight without a Wildshape...ever. That's actually pretty good for this particular resource. It's not like, oh you get a sorcery point if you roll initiative, or you get a superiority dice. It's Wild Shape and I think that is worth more. It mimics, in a way, the unlimited wildshapes in 2014 which let's be honest, was nuts. My Earth Elemental form is now at 2 hp, oh no, what will I do? I suppose I'll burn a bonus action to just get all my hp back in another Earth Elemental form or maybe change it up by turning into a Fire Elemental. This kinda puts the brakes on unlimited temps. I'm okay with it.
So for me, it’s not that I have a problem with regaining a Wild Shape use. It’s requiring that you have 0 left before you can benefit from the feature. You’re at 20th level. Just let the player always regain one.
@@InsightCheck I get where you're going with that but to me the real value of the Wildshape is in it's combat utility. So, if you are guaranteed one in every fight, I'm down with that. Other druids might use them all in one day, but I doubt it. And all druids can use it again for the cost of a spell slot...any spell slot. So I dunno, seems pretty good to me
Wild companion also last longer now. It used to be half your druid level in hours. Now it's when you finish a long rest.
Basically, unless you’re a moon Druid, you’re just going to be using wild shape uses on something else because there is really no reason to use the base wild shape feature.
I think that’s kinda where the Druid already was since Tasha’s
Terrible take. Maybe if you are in a combat only campaign, I guess. Base wild shape can be an insane tool for scouting, infiltration, hiding, etc.
that or turning into a horse so you can disengage and run away from a fight
Yeah and I love it, I had a spellcaster focused druid that relies on wild shape very little that made me think that was a unnecessary option, while as a moon circle druid I used so much, of course
I'm honestlly not really happy about the sailor moon druid estetics.
Even if the subclass is mechanically better
You no longer have to have encountered the creature you wildshape into? F that nonsense.
Honestly, it just seems like all of the new 2024 content is very watered down. Everything seems so mechanical and doesn’t have any contacts with the monsters and it seems significantly weaker than the old 2014 content. Seeing what they’ve done to Druids and my favorite paladin subclass of the ancients, I don’t even know why I would buy these books. Now I’ve heard what they’ve done with all the summoning spells and it’s just a lifeless stat block. No personality no law no nothing just a big chunk of HP and attack stats.
everyone is saying moon druid is dead, i disagree i think it just balances the entire class, making moon druid a choice and not the obvious way to go
New moon druid is stronger. People just gotta try out the new ability to sacrifice spellslots for temp HP.
At lvl 8, I could sacrifice all first lvl spell slots (and 3x wildshape) and gain 168 temp HP for one fight.
@@zaladar1 true, and the whole class is stronger, it just seems that other subclasses are viable now
The Moon Druid is such a disappointment. You *STILL* don’t get any kind of bonus to your hit rolls while Wildshaped. What’s the point in giving beast forms a damage bonus if you can’t hit anything?
Doesn't every animal already have bonuses for hitting?
@@dyegoeduardosantossilva3659 They do but it’s way below what a mid to high level player would expect to get. At level 10 a player would expect to have a +8 or +9 to hit, the best CR 3 Beast, the Giant Scorpion, only has a +4 to hit.
I don’t think we know that for sure until the monster manual is out. If I had to bet money on it, I’d say you’re right, but we don’t actually know that yet.
@@jinxtheunluckyponyGiant Scorpion is "the best" because it has multi attack. The anklyrosaurus gets a +7 to hit. That being said if they were really serious about its just a form and you aren't literally the animal then one of the game stats that you should keep is your Proficiency Bonus. That would make Scorpion +6 and Ankly +9.
Another thing they could have fixed so easily. “Use your spell attack bonus.” Done. That’s the homebrew rule we use.
Why would a druid be casting fire spells in an arid land?? That's liable to start wildfires!
they killed my boy!!!!
Why is the Druid a better ranger????
I'm just happy that I can turn into something like a cat and not get kicked out of my wild shape whenever someone sneezes near me.
Moon Druids being able to cast their Circle Spells in Wildshape is good. Kuma & Panda still playable in Dnd. Tavern Brawler for Salmon Rage Art. Limelight it up with Moonbeam & Grapple.
This druid sucks, you don't see it, it's super nerfed, it could be that they never played with one or they don't have any common sense. If before, the druda was used little, now it will be used less.
Ha ha…Wild
The Imp and Quasit stat blocks should let us know about the whole “ resistance to non-magical B/P/S” damage thing.
Those stat blocks are in the book and I want to see them sooooo badly.
Same! I need to know haha!
Well, you make some convincing arguments. Ok, I’ll subscribe.
🦍
Divine smite is the most controversial for me and the saddest
Moon druid is dead, sad
I'm honestlly not really happy about the sailor moon druid estetics.
Even if the subclass is mechanically better
I'm honestlly not really happy about the sailor moon druid estetics.
Even if the subclass is mechanically better