Just sitting here on a cold Sunday morning at 4am imagining what could have been done with this unit in the hands and mind or Jeff Beck.. I close me eyes, sit back, and I can hear it all in my head... and I am completely calm and relaxed.
Sure, and It is what this guitar actually sounds like when you put it on a reverberating cupboard and put a mic just beside it. I am sorry if you felt any discomfort. It was truly not my intention.
This is the BEST video on this rare guitar!, it's a shame this guitar wasn't successful commercially, now they're ridiculously overpriced, I love the muting effect, I have a Schecter with Sustianiac system and I kind of emulate that muting with sustain by inserting a strip of paper between the strings at the bridge position, the filtered sounds I think are average and I think can be emulated with other pedals with filters, thanks you for this demo, I think you have the best channel for guitar innovations; I think this guitar was actually designed by Paul Vo, too bad these innovations are not much known and available and sadly we only have endless Les Paul and Stratocaster imitations
Hi Alex, and thanks for all of your positivity. I agree with you on the price, but to be fair, it was always ridiculously overpriced. 🙃 The filters in this, as it is, are really not all that. They could perhaps be better if I added some other CV controller pedal to the mix., but then there goes another couple of hundred dollars. I am very happy with what I can get from MG3 on the acoustic side for this, where we have the Deep Expressor and the Sweetspot to emulate this stuff with (and go waaaay beyond that too). So it was more an opportunity to show that something like the MOOG Guitar actually works here (like this), and perhaps not much more. I And yes, This is a Paul Vo guitar. 😃
I *have* played it, for ten minutes-ish at a moog event in copenhagen. It's one of those moments where you feel like handing the instrument back is...unjust,somehow.
I know. There is this very tactile sensation of it "starting up". Now, ten minutes is not much time with this. I am still not confident with what everything does in every setting constellation. But I glad you got to try it at least. 😀 I have noticed an awful lot of people in here with opinions on this that seem to be somewhat (lets say...) misguided.
I think about that guitar on a monthly basis, and I would absolutely have found a way to save up money for it if it had been available lefthand. Now I fantasise about buying one and chopping it up to make a lefthand version
I was fascinated with these guitars when they came out, but I didn't have the cash to get one. Never seen one in person either. They were way ahead of their time, though. Perhaps the usefulness of an instrument with this kind of capability will prove itself over time and another guitar manufacturer may try something similar. I'm not sure I would want to buy a Moog Guitar now even if I could afford the astronomical second-hand price--there were special Moog Guitar strings made with a different metallurgy that are obviously no longer in production. Also, the luthier who built the Moog Guitars is now at Aluminati in Asheville. Check out their aluminum-neck instruments!
If I was thinking of buying this today, I would probably not have done it either. Especially since there has been no buzz around these since 2012. It is crazy that people are still able to sell them for whatever they are asking for.
You should have provided some explanation during the beginning of the video, where you set up harmonic balance. That way people would stop bitching about it. Like, yeah, you have the option to toggle feedback frequency at will, but some folks seem to think the whole point of it is to produce that frequency.
I can only agree with you on the strangeness feeling. I thought the Pickups were weak, and it didn't at all react to sustain as I had envisioned. I had a few guitars with sustainiacs already, thanks to Steve Vai and "For the Love of God" which I though I was going to be able to play if I just had one of those. (I couldn't, of course 😂) But I knew how the sustainacs worked on the strings, and compared to that, the Moog was sluggish and dull. But I have changed, and my preferences for what I want to achieve and express have changed too, and now this guitar is a perfect match for the stuff I am doing. But I totally understand what you mean. 👍
So it's basically a guitar with two refined/advanced sustainer pickups and an analog filter? I had no idea there even was a Moog guitar, but now I want one! Even disregarding the crazy electronics, it just looks like an amazing guitar. Is it possible to use the 13-pin MIDI output and the 1/4" from the magnetic pickups at the same time, or is it one or the other?
Yeah, basically. It is fitted with a piezo output originally, which I had replaced with this 13-pin output. You have the traditional 1/4 inch out is on the MOOG pedal, and it is totally separate from the 13-pin (that is powered by whatever you connect it to). So yes, you can use both outs at the same time. Harmonic blending will affect the output and you have to be paying attention to how that in turn affect any pitch-to- MIDI conversion from that audio. Not all settings are working for optimal results.
@@lofileif I can imagine the harmonics from the sustainer pickups having a negative impact on the MIDI pitch tracking. Really cool guitar though! Did you buy it used or new?
I mentioned to a friend at work that I owned a couple of the lowest priced Moogs. He tells me how he owns a Moog guitar. I'm like WTF Moog makes synths, not guitars. I thought that I was interested in buying his Moog axe until he told me what it's worth. Nevermind. That's stupid money...
One of my top 5 electronic music albums is Cords by Synergy / Larry Fast. On it a Russ Hamm guitar synthesizer was used by to great effect by Pete Sobel adding a wonderful layer of less obvious voicing and solo’s. I think it is high time for a 21st century equivalent. Are you game? 😁
Oh My! Another album I have missed completely. I just briefly had a listen and I need to do myself the favor of listening to the whole thing.🤩 Now, I agree with you about it being high time for something new to happen with guitar, and I hope that it is something that couldn't have been predicted. Paradigm shifts in science could signify that a theory has run its course, and being fixed is no longer the best option. Hopefully, we get to see that in guitar music too soon, so we don't just get another SRV clone bending SRV licks but with a synthy tone. I don't know how much of a part I will have in the actual performance, but I wouldn't mind helping out in setting it up. 👍
@@lofileif Sounds like you could also be very helpfull with the playing. My favorite Cords track is Phobos and Deimos Go To Mars. Listen to It and be amazed! 😁
Thank you so much! Now, it is pretty much here I am afraid. I am not gigging, and I am not sure I have that interest really. There is very little real interest in the music itself from my perspective, so I am a bit disillusioned right now. I hope I can turn that around. 😶 But thank you again, for your interest and kind words: It is much appreciated. 🙏
They are indeed rare birds to spot in the wild. I remember a Lou Reed clip, and a few more, from back then. I have also seen Julian Lage play it, but the overall quality of those videos, meant to market this guitar, was strangely poor. But perhaps they were meant to give us the feeling that we were watching something real, I don't know.
Thanks Peter. 🙏 I wouldn't put hope in any external solution to issues you might have with tracking. The Moog guitar just gently keeps the strings sustaining. But legato tracking? Really? Are we talking MG3 or MG HEX? I feel we may need to have a video chat perhaps?
@@lofileif I guess tracking might not have been the best word - the infinite sustain do obviously allow for longer held notes than on a regular guitar, and as such I though it might be better suited for orchestral legato instruments that in effect can be played infinitely (such as the the violin). I guess I just wanted your impression of whether the Moog guitar is indeed better at playing monophonic legato instruments.
Oh, I don’t think you’d gain much with a Moog Guitar when it comes to MIDI input for ”real” instruments (sampled or modeled). I think the real bonus comes from the kind of control input you don’t expect. All the pulses from the magnetic control over the string show up as pressurevariation in MG3, and that isn’t really what we would want for a violin dynamic input. But it is really interesting with Dawesomes Kult or Mythor Reasons Objekt for instance.
so it doesn’t do midi - Midi Guitar 3 opens up the entire world as you demonstrate. So what sounds does the Moog provide that cannot be produced by any of the dozens of hw-sw synths?
None. You can probably always reproduce a sound digitally, even if there is something like an aleatory component here due to its relative complexity to set up. I bet even environmental circumstances like temperature must be alike for the guitar to output the exact same thing two times in a row. But it is the handling that is the difference, it is the sustain, and the way it sustains. Not the note's individual relative durations, but what you can do with the notes while playing them, and in no small part the feeling. It is a very tactile experience, and you can feel how the magnetism works the strings and use that. So it is a controller side aspect. I can use that sustain instead of my breath controller to provide the data for the Pressure part of the MPE data input.
@@lofileif beauty is in the eye of the beholder. and some people are just closed when it comes to the beauty of sound, especially when there's distortion and feedback. they want their music packaged in three minute doses with verses, choruses and bridges, predictable rhythms, chords and catchy melodies. i think this sounds beautiful. never-heard-before sounds can excite me as much as new music. if it's done right. keep up the good work. rob
You mean to be able to control the effects controlled by the (physical) knobs? Well, it would be very nice , but not likely. As I said, this is a dinosaur. These circuit boards are not ready for that kind of external control. But hey, there is always that special guy out there who does the unthinkable, so I am not going to say impossible only to be proved wrong. 😀
I guess you'd have to go for the standard places like eBay or Reverb. I wouldn't though. I have far too little trust left in me to do any such business online. And to your second question; too much I am sad to say. 😬💸💸💸
Yes, but the guitar electronics and magnets need a lot of power! So the pedal is both a power supply for the guitar and the audio out interface. Hence the XLR .
I own the Gibson Les Paul attempt at moog the artist from late 70s early 90s. IMO it wasn’t a great idea then and it isn’t here. I quickly swapped out the pickups and electronics, making it a regular guitar. Best move. If I was given this guitar for free then I would have fun with it. But I like my guitars sounding like guitars. Nice informative video though
I am glad you are happy with what you got. This guitar can sound like a guitar as well. I just didn't want to bore you guys with my feeble attempts at making guitar sounds too.
I have exactly the same guitar, without the hex interface yet - I do have the Ghost Hexpander to install once I’ve worked out how to do it! I used it with both MG2 and MG3.
Yeah, I had mine installed by my luthier Anders Thidell ( the inventor of the True Temperament squiggly frets). I know for a fact that he struggled a lot with that since initially, I wanted to keep the Piezo system (the Moog PUs are rather weak, right). He was in contact with Moog, but they couldn't really help him out, for whatever reason. But in hindsight, I guess it was for the best. I have a Parker with a combined Piezo and GK-Kit installed, and all I do is change batteries, so this solution with the Hex Preamp powered from the GP10 (in my case), I don't need to worry about any of that stuff.
Moog have no information at all so I ended up speaking directly with Paul Vo, the inventor. He said that it is possible to get the piezo signal with the Ghost system, you just need to feed the mixed signal back ti the Moog board. We’ll see if I can achieve that! I tend to use the piezo more than the regular pickups so I’d like to keep that but the 13-pin output gives a lot of options for virtual guitars alongside MIDI. I have a GP-10 but will probably use my SY-1000 with MG3. So far my hex experiments have used my Brian Moore 13-pin guitar but I’d love to use the Moog with hex conversion. I’ve only used it with the standard version of MG3 so far and that’s still quite powerful. Being an ambient guitarist the infinite sustain is addictive!
Those Brian Moore guitars have always been way up there on my wishlist. I am not sure you would gain so much extra functionality by adding the hexpander to your Moog. I mean, most of the Moog soundscaping you'll do with the regular Moog pedal audio out setup anyway. The best argument would be if you only had one guitar, but if you have the Brian Moore with a 13 pin, you can just as well use that for everything Hex. The Sustainer effect on the piezo signal is there, but it is nothing like the standard jack output with all the filters and stuff. Just a thought.
Thanks for diving into the past and rescuing part of the tapestry of the future! When Len Cohen wrote “I am guided by the beauty of our weapons” I always imagine this kind of musical machinery and sonic innovation! Exciting to hear that MG3 will now support ‘old’ Midi guitar technology!!! Is it possible to get a signal from a 13 pin guitar output into a computer and access MG3 without the need for the Synth “Pedal” ( e.g. Boss GM800 etc.)? (Avoiding rabbit holes! A yes or no is fine!😂)
Hey Anthony! Yes, you can use a breakout cable straight into a (minimum 6 channel) audio interface. I have had my eyes on one of these for a while for myself (to avoid being stuck at the mercy of Roland keeping their pedals USB class compliant with every new OS update. www.separate-strings.co.uk/breakout%20cables%20and%20more.html I have not yet bought one, because of some tariff issues made it unreasonably expensive (to ship) due to Britains Brexit (I live in Sweden, so perhaps the same doesn't apply to you?) But that is certainly one way to go.
Love your channel . . . I’ve always been interested in Guitar Synth/MIDI Guitar since the ARP Avatar . . . I had two . . . Today, I found one of these on Reverb . . . w’ the factory 13-pin . . . As I was doing some research on it . . . Lo and behold . . . Your review came up first thing . . . Must be the universe telling me to get it . . . But it’s a bit too high of a $price . . . Thanks for the great information on this . . .
I thought this guitar was dumb. This was the first new product Moog offered when they went back into business. I guess I was biased about a legendary synth manufacturer making a guitar. Later I realized it did some cool stuff. The way you’re using it is really cool. Has a very organic horn sound to some of it. I would have liked to have heard what Derek Bailey did with this instrument.
What a commendable attitude, to be able to change one's mind about an opinion already formed and held. 🙏 And as soon as you mentioned Derek Bailey my mind rushed and I started thinking of what a new potential collab between Anthony Braxton and Derek( but now on Moog Guitar) would have sounded like? 🤩 I mean, we already have stuff like Richard Teitelbaum/Anthony Braxton so why not? Thank you for this! 🤝👍
Oh! You are completely right. The string rattles and the soaring piercing sharp noises. I had not thought of that, but it is all there in the Jerry Goldsmith theme music. A thing of beauty! 😱
@@lofileif I visited the factory in 2011 and saw the guitar room, but didn't get an opportunity to play one. Back then I was a bit perplexed as to why they made those guitars, especially at that pricepoint when we were eagerly urging them to make modulars again. But now just seeing the Moog logos on the 12th fret and the head stock makes me wish that I picked one up when I had the chance. Especially now as I've gotten more into guitar. I was too busy beginning my modular build, and was visiting the factory to make the final payment on the Taurus IIIs that hadn't been released yet.
Well, it feels like it is always coincidence that in the end decides where we end up, and with what. I can't say I had any plan of owning this Moog Guitar, more than a vague plan of not letting go of an opportunity (any opportunity) if it were to present itself. 😀
So, the best MIDI interpretation of all the market is connecting an hexafonic pickup to MIDI guitar 3? Thank you for your answer! And for your great videos ❤
I am not going to miss a chance to throw in the caveat "to my knowledge" or "in my personal experience" here. But yes, comparing all the setups I have tried; a divided PU into the HEX version of MG3 (it is a separate tracker), is by far the best-performing setup for MIDI conversion I have come across. 👍
I still use my TEControl BBC2 every day, and I haven't tried anything better. I believe I will be able to test the Papritech Air Motion Pro soon, but I have nothing on that at this point in time. 👍
No not entirely… they were made for moog by Zion guitars. Moog and Zion are in North Carolina. I would say the electronics themselves were the Paul Vo fellow in collaboration with building a complete instrument with Zion for Moog.
I agree! I remember something called the Fender EOB Sustainer Stratocaster, and how it was described as having this "wide palette of tones thanks to its Seymour Duncan® JB Jr. humbucking bridge pickup, Texas Special™ single-coil middle pickup and Fernandes® Sustainer unit in the neck position. The Sustainer works some technical magic to create near-infinite sustain on one or more strings, making it easy to achieve thick, textured sounds." All that for a sustainiac-equipped guitar. I also had my eyes on the Adrian Belew Parker around the same time. Now there was innovation on a couple of levels. Not only was that guitar in itself a beast, but all the electronics that went into that. Wow. I would feel even luckier if I had that too. 😁
And I would have loved to have that Adrian Belew Parker. So much actually, that I bought a Parker and fitted it with both a GK kit and a sustainiac. The Variax stuff was never an option though. 😀👍
The illustration was very helpful here. I have no issues with being corrected if there is a general consensus around a particular pronunciation. Thank you! 🙏
@@lofileif Hi. Lol, not sure if that illustration comment was a deliberate joke, but it made me chuckle … unfortunately, there is no ‘person mowing a lawn’ emoji, or you would have received the full set. 😉 It (“MOWg”) is the pronunciation that Robert Arthur Moog himself preferred/requested. As I understand it, it has more than a little to do with his wife not appreciation the association with 🐄s, otherwise … which is understandable … ☺️. I would usually ‘correct’ (if I am very sure about something) more casually by skipping the correct pronunciation etc into the conversation, as eg Marcys Aurelius would encourage, but that doesn’t work at all in this forum (nor as well across different first languages/accents). Anyway, was just FYI … you live in a (very nice and very) free country, though, I assume from your accent. 🙂 Nice video, btw - sub’d. All this virtual/MIDI guitar stuff is like a bottomless rabbit-hole of possibilities, but no ‘worse’ than drone warfare, robot dogs, AI podcasters, and all the other tech that is developing at an increasingly concerning rate … It rather makes me appreciate my simple old instruments, amps and pedals etc, that much more. Likewise, reading a real, physical book. 🙂 I guess I must be getting old … ☺️. Be well!
Good video that demonstrates the guitar pretty thoroughly. But to highlight & celebrate a supposedly terrific instrument, you treat us mostly to offensive electronic noise. And I say that as owner of a Godin SA Multiac guitar: a fine instrument with built-in synthetic access. But it's not a noise box. Paired with a Roland synthesizer you can use it to emulate other instruments with sampled sound, and yes you can modify and alter the sound it produces to extremes. Just as you can play an electric guitar & slap on overdrive to create noise. But the Moog is presented here mostly to produce noise only. The overly synth-centric muszak of the 1980s is dead. Thank god. The synth-focused mania of the 1960s was driven by it's novelty and is equally dead. Perhaps the best thing it produced was sound effects for the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy radio play, and the 'Switched On Bach' vinyl recording that proved you could render Bach's fast-driven piano pieces without emotion or phrasing, with mechanical monotony. But then, Glenn Gould had already proved that humans can play with all the emotional range of a metronome: we didn't need an actual robotic metronome to render Bach boring. But sure, it was novel. There are brief examples of the instrument being used in the video to produce actual music. The Spanish guitar sample at 18 min. is eye-opening. Latency is the Achilles heel of Godin's synth access guitars, a limitation more of the Roland Synths than the guitar. But this Moog appears to have near-zero latency. I wanted to hear a direct comparison. And the Godin doesn't cope with strums well in synth output: it rewards single notes at a time and requires very clean technique. This guitarist has exceptional technique and plays VERY cleanly, but the instrument appears able to cope with multiple note input - strums for instance - with aplomb. Again, I wanted to hear the reviewer discuss that. But no, he returns to demonstrating support for a Foley artist, and says while you can use the instrument to produce music, "It's not really suited for that." OK.
Thank you for your review of what you seem to consider to be my review of this instrument. Let me start out by saying that I find the lack of openness to differences in musical aesthetics totally off-putting. I draw inspiration from Iannis Xenakis, Anthony Braxton, Paul Bley , Berio, Scelsi, and even more from György Ligeti and Schoenberg. Pat Metheny, , Meshuggah, or John Zorn. All of these have been accused of making noise music. This channel is all about MIDI Guitar, and this (one) video was an excursion into an application case study. What will the Moog Guitar add as a controller? I urge you to take a look at the rest of the videos on this channel and then come back. You seem to be of the mistaken opinion that the Moog Guitar in itself would have faster handling of MIDI than your Godin. The secret is not the guitar - it is the software that converts the guitar output into MIDI. You are disappointed with the reviewer for not talking about what you wanted him to talk about? Take a look at the ten of fifteen videos that preceded this one on this channel. OK.
Oh, I am not sure you can (or even should strive to) get one. They are terribly overpriced. The only reason I made this video was that I already have one of these, and I just realized that the combination of its audio with MIDI output now actually works, as opposed to my earlier attempts at using this together with the Roland gear (GR-55, VG99 or GP10) with their sounds. That is a disaster. But if you are rich beyond compare they show up on Reverb or other second-hand market places occasionally. 👍
I remember being a college student when videos of this guitar came out and I remember thinking it looks ugly but sounds radical beyond belief and maybe in 10 years this thing will be copied to hell and get cheaper. Sadly, not what happened. The whole guitar landscape could have been different if this thing would have succeeded.
What does "something similar" mean here? Another color, or are you thinking about the E1? I am not going to question your judgement though. I have thought of this as terrible many times. 😆 Just interested in what "similar" could mean:
“Not the Mama!”, I mean not a guitar, but a synth interface in guitar form instead of keyboard form. Nothing really wrong with it, but NOT a guitar, even though blend-able. All kinds of things available and trigger-able, but maybe don’t let it dictate how you play the guitar (too much). It’s just a tool. ❤
Well, it is very much a guitar. Just turn down the VO power and you skip the sustaining/muting action. And all you have left is a guitar where there is a choice to use or not use its filters. I can certainly sound like a synth if you 1) add effects to the acoustic output, and use the infinite sustain to move away from the traditional dynamics of a guitar string decay when it loses energy and stops vibrating. The other way 2) is to convert the acoustic output into MIDI and have that trigger synth sounds. A strategy that is also on display in this video. For the last statement, I agree 100 %. You should not let it dictate how you play. It is just a tool. But there is nothing stopping you from drawing inspiration from a tool. 👍
What makes it “nonsense”? It isn’t a synth. It’s an electroacoustic sustain system, built with a fairly unique approach and set of features. And so what if the brand name is Moog? No one else built one! This whole way of thinking is similar to dismissing those newfangled electric guitars because there’s nothing wrong with a good old fashioned acoustic.
Just sitting here on a cold Sunday morning at 4am imagining what could have been done with this unit in the hands and mind or Jeff Beck..
I close me eyes, sit back, and I can hear it all in my head... and I am completely calm and relaxed.
That is a nice change of pace, in terms of reactions to this ASMR for masochists. 😊
I've wanted this since 2008. Maybe one day.
Maybe. Let's hope! 👍
That harmonic blend nob on intro was ear piercing. Sounds like the frequency I would hear falling asleep after a gig.
Sure, and It is what this guitar actually sounds like when you put it on a reverberating cupboard and put a mic just beside it. I am sorry if you felt any discomfort. It was truly not my intention.
Man I remember when Phil Keaggy was demoing Moog guitars, I was hoping to see one in person one day, maybe even play.
The whistle feedback sound drives me crazy
Then skip that part.
Harmonicphobia
Yes, I hear you and I will not have that in my next video!
This is the BEST video on this rare guitar!, it's a shame this guitar wasn't successful commercially, now they're ridiculously overpriced, I love the muting effect, I have a Schecter with Sustianiac system and I kind of emulate that muting with sustain by inserting a strip of paper between the strings at the bridge position, the filtered sounds I think are average and I think can be emulated with other pedals with filters, thanks you for this demo, I think you have the best channel for guitar innovations; I think this guitar was actually designed by Paul Vo, too bad these innovations are not much known and available and sadly we only have endless Les Paul and Stratocaster imitations
Hi Alex, and thanks for all of your positivity. I agree with you on the price, but to be fair, it was always ridiculously overpriced. 🙃 The filters in this, as it is, are really not all that. They could perhaps be better if I added some other CV controller pedal to the mix., but then there goes another couple of hundred dollars. I am very happy with what I can get from MG3 on the acoustic side for this, where we have the Deep Expressor and the Sweetspot to emulate this stuff with (and go waaaay beyond that too). So it was more an opportunity to show that something like the MOOG Guitar actually works here (like this), and perhaps not much more. I
And yes, This is a Paul Vo guitar. 😃
I *have* played it, for ten minutes-ish at a moog event in copenhagen. It's one of those moments where you feel like handing the instrument back is...unjust,somehow.
the most special part doesnt even translate well; the whole thing vibrating along with your playing is WILD.
I know. There is this very tactile sensation of it "starting up". Now, ten minutes is not much time with this. I am still not confident with what everything does in every setting constellation. But I glad you got to try it at least. 😀 I have noticed an awful lot of people in here with opinions on this that seem to be somewhat (lets say...) misguided.
Yeah the moment where your brain is like No, why can’t it be mine forever?!?!
I think about that guitar on a monthly basis, and I would absolutely have found a way to save up money for it if it had been available lefthand. Now I fantasise about buying one and chopping it up to make a lefthand version
Oh, I haven’t actually even considered that particular predicament. 😳 How often does this happen? That there isn’t a lefthand version, I mean.
Buy one and get it setup with the strings upside down then you can play it left handed.
I was fascinated with these guitars when they came out, but I didn't have the cash to get one. Never seen one in person either. They were way ahead of their time, though. Perhaps the usefulness of an instrument with this kind of capability will prove itself over time and another guitar manufacturer may try something similar.
I'm not sure I would want to buy a Moog Guitar now even if I could afford the astronomical second-hand price--there were special Moog Guitar strings made with a different metallurgy that are obviously no longer in production.
Also, the luthier who built the Moog Guitars is now at Aluminati in Asheville. Check out their aluminum-neck instruments!
If I was thinking of buying this today, I would probably not have done it either. Especially since there has been no buzz around these since 2012. It is crazy that people are still able to sell them for whatever they are asking for.
You should have provided some explanation during the beginning of the video, where you set up harmonic balance. That way people would stop bitching about it. Like, yeah, you have the option to toggle feedback frequency at will, but some folks seem to think the whole point of it is to produce that frequency.
In hindsight, I should have provided a trigger warning for the whole video. 🧐
@@lofileif 😂
Buncha whiners!
Had one of these for a while when they first came out .
Very strange indeed. It works great in the lapsteel version but the guitar was odd
I can only agree with you on the strangeness feeling. I thought the Pickups were weak, and it didn't at all react to sustain as I had envisioned. I had a few guitars with sustainiacs already, thanks to Steve Vai and "For the Love of God" which I though I was going to be able to play if I just had one of those. (I couldn't, of course 😂) But I knew how the sustainacs worked on the strings, and compared to that, the Moog was sluggish and dull. But I have changed, and my preferences for what I want to achieve and express have changed too, and now this guitar is a perfect match for the stuff I am doing. But I totally understand what you mean. 👍
So it's basically a guitar with two refined/advanced sustainer pickups and an analog filter? I had no idea there even was a Moog guitar, but now I want one! Even disregarding the crazy electronics, it just looks like an amazing guitar. Is it possible to use the 13-pin MIDI output and the 1/4" from the magnetic pickups at the same time, or is it one or the other?
Yeah, basically. It is fitted with a piezo output originally, which I had replaced with this 13-pin output. You have the traditional 1/4 inch out is on the MOOG pedal, and it is totally separate from the 13-pin (that is powered by whatever you connect it to). So yes, you can use both outs at the same time. Harmonic blending will affect the output and you have to be paying attention to how that in turn affect any pitch-to- MIDI conversion from that audio. Not all settings are working for optimal results.
@@lofileif I can imagine the harmonics from the sustainer pickups having a negative impact on the MIDI pitch tracking. Really cool guitar though! Did you buy it used or new?
It was directly from the Importer - spanking new!
What acoustic guitar plugin were you using at 18:02 with the Grand?
That would be the Orange Tree Samples "Evolution Modern Nylon"
I mentioned to a friend at work that I owned a couple of the lowest priced Moogs. He tells me how he owns a Moog guitar. I'm like WTF Moog makes synths, not guitars.
I thought that I was interested in buying his Moog axe until he told me what it's worth. Nevermind. That's stupid money...
It is indeed crazy expensive 🤕
I have a moog guitar. It’s the active circuit in my Les Paul Artiste.
Is it one of these guitars with the three microswitches?
Thanks, interesting instrument, and some really unusual tones.
Thank you 🙏
One of my top 5 electronic music albums is Cords by Synergy / Larry Fast. On it a Russ Hamm guitar synthesizer was used by to great effect by Pete Sobel adding a wonderful layer of less obvious voicing and solo’s. I think it is high time for a 21st century equivalent. Are you game? 😁
Oh My! Another album I have missed completely. I just briefly had a listen and I need to do myself the favor of listening to the whole thing.🤩 Now, I agree with you about it being high time for something new to happen with guitar, and I hope that it is something that couldn't have been predicted. Paradigm shifts in science could signify that a theory has run its course, and being fixed is no longer the best option. Hopefully, we get to see that in guitar music too soon, so we don't just get another SRV clone bending SRV licks but with a synthy tone. I don't know how much of a part I will have in the actual performance, but I wouldn't mind helping out in setting it up. 👍
@@lofileif Sounds like you could also be very helpfull with the playing. My favorite Cords track is Phobos and Deimos Go To Mars. Listen to It and be amazed! 😁
Will do, thanks 🙏
@@lofileif am I correct to assume het I can contact you directory via the jamorigin website?
Yes, if you are talking about the Forum? jamosapien.com
Astounding aounds, Leif! I'd love to know where your improvs or other work can be listened to. Thanks for posting!
Thank you so much! Now, it is pretty much here I am afraid. I am not gigging, and I am not sure I have that interest really. There is very little real interest in the music itself from my perspective, so I am a bit disillusioned right now. I hope I can turn that around. 😶 But thank you again, for your interest and kind words: It is much appreciated. 🙏
Always fancied one since Lou Reed had one, never ever seen one IRL
They are indeed rare birds to spot in the wild. I remember a Lou Reed clip, and a few more, from back then. I have also seen Julian Lage play it, but the overall quality of those videos, meant to market this guitar, was strangely poor. But perhaps they were meant to give us the feeling that we were watching something real, I don't know.
Beautiful - infinite sustains might better help with legato tracking?
good joke
Thanks Peter. 🙏 I wouldn't put hope in any external solution to issues you might have with tracking. The Moog guitar just gently keeps the strings sustaining. But legato tracking? Really? Are we talking MG3 or MG HEX? I feel we may need to have a video chat perhaps?
Now, what do you mean?
@@lofileif I guess tracking might not have been the best word - the infinite sustain do obviously allow for longer held notes than on a regular guitar, and as such I though it might be better suited for orchestral legato instruments that in effect can be played infinitely (such as the the violin). I guess I just wanted your impression of whether the Moog guitar is indeed better at playing monophonic legato instruments.
Oh, I don’t think you’d gain much with a Moog Guitar when it comes to MIDI input for ”real” instruments (sampled or modeled). I think the real bonus comes from the kind of control input you don’t expect. All the pulses from the magnetic control over the string show up as pressurevariation in MG3, and that isn’t really what we would want for a violin dynamic input. But it is really interesting with Dawesomes Kult or Mythor Reasons Objekt for instance.
so it doesn’t do midi - Midi Guitar 3 opens up the entire world as you demonstrate. So what sounds does the Moog provide that cannot be produced by any of the dozens of hw-sw synths?
None. You can probably always reproduce a sound digitally, even if there is something like an aleatory component here due to its relative complexity to set up. I bet even environmental circumstances like temperature must be alike for the guitar to output the exact same thing two times in a row. But it is the handling that is the difference, it is the sustain, and the way it sustains. Not the note's individual relative durations, but what you can do with the notes while playing them, and in no small part the feeling. It is a very tactile experience, and you can feel how the magnetism works the strings and use that. So it is a controller side aspect. I can use that sustain instead of my breath controller to provide the data for the Pressure part of the MPE data input.
excellent. sounds i've never heard before.
Thank man! 🙏 I must say, that is a much more satisfying judgment than " offensive electronic noise" 😁
@@lofileif beauty is in the eye of the beholder. and some people are just closed when it comes to the beauty of sound, especially when there's distortion and feedback. they want their music packaged in three minute doses with verses, choruses and bridges, predictable rhythms, chords and catchy melodies. i think this sounds beautiful. never-heard-before sounds can excite me as much as new music. if it's done right. keep up the good work.
rob
Well said! Thank you, Rob! 🙏
Midi control on the settings of this guitar would be great add-on
You mean to be able to control the effects controlled by the (physical) knobs? Well, it would be very nice , but not likely. As I said, this is a dinosaur. These circuit boards are not ready for that kind of external control. But hey, there is always that special guy out there who does the unthinkable, so I am not going to say impossible only to be proved wrong. 😀
Where can i buy one and how much?
I guess you'd have to go for the standard places like eBay or Reverb. I wouldn't though. I have far too little trust left in me to do any such business online. And to your second question; too much I am sad to say. 😬💸💸💸
The Favorite Things and guitar concerto bits are wonderfull and as far as the comments on the more experimental stuff goes: What do THEY know. 😉
Thanks man 🙏
Confusing: if is really is Analog, why do you need a mic cable? If all these sounds comes from the guitar, Analog 1/4" to Amp 'should' work best....?
Yes, but the guitar electronics and magnets need a lot of power! So the pedal is both a power supply for the guitar and the audio out interface. Hence the XLR .
I own the Gibson Les Paul attempt at moog the artist from late 70s early 90s. IMO it wasn’t a great idea then and it isn’t here. I quickly swapped out the pickups and electronics, making it a regular guitar. Best move.
If I was given this guitar for free then I would have fun with it. But I like my guitars sounding like guitars. Nice informative video though
I am glad you are happy with what you got. This guitar can sound like a guitar as well. I just didn't want to bore you guys with my feeble attempts at making guitar sounds too.
Always wanted one of these
Hope you get one (at a reasonable price) someday:👍
I have exactly the same guitar, without the hex interface yet - I do have the Ghost Hexpander to install once I’ve worked out how to do it! I used it with both MG2 and MG3.
Yeah, I had mine installed by my luthier Anders Thidell ( the inventor of the True Temperament squiggly frets). I know for a fact that he struggled a lot with that since initially, I wanted to keep the Piezo system (the Moog PUs are rather weak, right). He was in contact with Moog, but they couldn't really help him out, for whatever reason. But in hindsight, I guess it was for the best. I have a Parker with a combined Piezo and GK-Kit installed, and all I do is change batteries, so this solution with the Hex Preamp powered from the GP10 (in my case), I don't need to worry about any of that stuff.
Moog have no information at all so I ended up speaking directly with Paul Vo, the inventor. He said that it is possible to get the piezo signal with the Ghost system, you just need to feed the mixed signal back ti the Moog board. We’ll see if I can achieve that! I tend to use the piezo more than the regular pickups so I’d like to keep that but the 13-pin output gives a lot of options for virtual guitars alongside MIDI. I have a GP-10 but will probably use my SY-1000 with MG3. So far my hex experiments have used my Brian Moore 13-pin guitar but I’d love to use the Moog with hex conversion. I’ve only used it with the standard version of MG3 so far and that’s still quite powerful. Being an ambient guitarist the infinite sustain is addictive!
Those Brian Moore guitars have always been way up there on my wishlist. I am not sure you would gain so much extra functionality by adding the hexpander to your Moog. I mean, most of the Moog soundscaping you'll do with the regular Moog pedal audio out setup anyway. The best argument would be if you only had one guitar, but if you have the Brian Moore with a 13 pin, you can just as well use that for everything Hex. The Sustainer effect on the piezo signal is there, but it is nothing like the standard jack output with all the filters and stuff. Just a thought.
Thanks for diving into the past and rescuing part of the tapestry of the future! When Len Cohen wrote “I am guided by the beauty of our weapons” I always imagine this kind of musical machinery and sonic innovation! Exciting to hear that MG3 will now support ‘old’ Midi guitar technology!!!
Is it possible to get a signal from a 13 pin guitar output into a computer and access MG3 without the need for the Synth “Pedal” ( e.g. Boss GM800 etc.)? (Avoiding rabbit holes! A yes or no is fine!😂)
Hey Anthony! Yes, you can use a breakout cable straight into a (minimum 6 channel) audio interface. I have had my eyes on one of these for a while for myself (to avoid being stuck at the mercy of Roland keeping their pedals USB class compliant with every new OS update.
www.separate-strings.co.uk/breakout%20cables%20and%20more.html
I have not yet bought one, because of some tariff issues made it unreasonably expensive (to ship) due to Britains Brexit (I live in Sweden, so perhaps the same doesn't apply to you?) But that is certainly one way to go.
Fascinating ❤
Thanks 🙏
Love your channel . . . I’ve always been interested in Guitar Synth/MIDI Guitar since the ARP Avatar . . . I had two . . . Today, I found one of these on Reverb . . . w’ the factory 13-pin . . . As I was doing some research on it . . . Lo and behold . . . Your review came up first thing . . . Must be the universe telling me to get it . . . But it’s a bit too high of a $price . . . Thanks for the great information on this . . .
Yeah, the prices on these 🤯
Cool
Noo here...great gear .,.great show...great lecture...abo gos...thanx🎉🎉🎉
Thanks for stopping by 🤝🙏
Supercool!!!! :) Thank you!
Thanks 🙏🙏🙏
I’ve wanted one of these for years but they were too much for me at the time and have only gotten worse since it was discontinued.
They are and have always been crazy expensive, yes. 👍
I thought this guitar was dumb. This was the first new product Moog offered when they went back into business. I guess I was biased about a legendary synth manufacturer making a guitar. Later I realized it did some cool stuff. The way you’re using it is really cool. Has a very organic horn sound to some of it. I would have liked to have heard what Derek Bailey did with this instrument.
What a commendable attitude, to be able to change one's mind about an opinion already formed and held. 🙏 And as soon as you mentioned Derek Bailey my mind rushed and I started thinking of what a new potential collab between Anthony Braxton and Derek( but now on Moog Guitar) would have sounded like? 🤩 I mean, we already have stuff like Richard Teitelbaum/Anthony Braxton so why not? Thank you for this! 🤝👍
Very beautiful guitar!
It sure is a pretty nice instrument! 😀
It really should have released this with a monthly subscription model.... 🤦
Yeah, everybody loves another subscription 🥴
Sounds like an Alien movie. 😮
Oh! You are completely right. The string rattles and the soaring piercing sharp noises. I had not thought of that, but it is all there in the Jerry Goldsmith theme music. A thing of beauty! 😱
I love that metal Moog badge. I managed to get one awhile back.
Yeah, that is from the Moog Guitar case 🙂
@@lofileif I visited the factory in 2011 and saw the guitar room, but didn't get an opportunity to play one. Back then I was a bit perplexed as to why they made those guitars, especially at that pricepoint when we were eagerly urging them to make modulars again. But now just seeing the Moog logos on the 12th fret and the head stock makes me wish that I picked one up when I had the chance. Especially now as I've gotten more into guitar. I was too busy beginning my modular build, and was visiting the factory to make the final payment on the Taurus IIIs that hadn't been released yet.
Well, it feels like it is always coincidence that in the end decides where we end up, and with what. I can't say I had any plan of owning this Moog Guitar, more than a vague plan of not letting go of an opportunity (any opportunity) if it were to present itself. 😀
So, the best MIDI interpretation of all the market is connecting an hexafonic pickup to MIDI guitar 3? Thank you for your answer! And for your great videos ❤
I am not going to miss a chance to throw in the caveat "to my knowledge" or "in my personal experience" here. But yes, comparing all the setups I have tried; a divided PU into the HEX version of MG3 (it is a separate tracker), is by far the best-performing setup for MIDI conversion I have come across. 👍
Stop reminding me about this guitar. I don't need this guitar.I don't need this guitar.I don't need this guitar.I don't need this guitar.
I am so sorry, but has anybody mentioned this fantastic guitar with these incredible sustaining abilities...😬
Do you still use the Tec control breath controller or would you recommend something else?
I still use my TEControl BBC2 every day, and I haven't tried anything better. I believe I will be able to test the Papritech Air Motion Pro soon, but I have nothing on that at this point in time. 👍
@@lofileif ok thanks do you roughly know when this will be?
If I had 5k I'd get one.
I hope you get there. 👍
Never heard of it. Was this done by Bob Moog and Herb Deutsch?
Paul Vo
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_Guitar
@@lofileif Thanks, will check him out 👍
No not entirely… they were made for moog by Zion guitars. Moog and Zion are in North Carolina. I would say the electronics themselves were the Paul Vo fellow in collaboration with building a complete instrument with Zion for Moog.
what about the chet atkins super axe
Oh, I have never even seen that. 😃 Looks like it could be a lot of fun to explore. Thanks for that. 🙏
I will play a sacreligious amount of money for a Moog bass guitar. Contact me.
I would love that kind of money, but I am afraid I haven't heard of a Moog Bass Guitar, though. 🤷♂️
Why is there so little innovation in guitar while you build endless variations out of this model ?
PS: you lucky bastard to have this guitar !!!
I agree! I remember something called the Fender EOB Sustainer Stratocaster, and how it was described as having this "wide palette of tones thanks to its Seymour Duncan® JB Jr. humbucking bridge pickup, Texas Special™ single-coil middle pickup and Fernandes® Sustainer unit in the neck position. The Sustainer works some technical magic to create near-infinite sustain on one or more strings, making it easy to achieve thick, textured sounds."
All that for a sustainiac-equipped guitar. I also had my eyes on the Adrian Belew Parker around the same time. Now there was innovation on a couple of levels. Not only was that guitar in itself a beast, but all the electronics that went into that. Wow.
I would feel even luckier if I had that too. 😁
Hard to listen to with that high pitched whine.
Interesting, did they make a bass?
Thanks 🙏 No Bass as far as I know.
Adrian Belew loved this guitar. At the time this was at NAMM he said that if he wasn't a Parker guitar endorsee he would be playing this.
And I would have loved to have that Adrian Belew Parker. So much actually, that I bought a Parker and fitted it with both a GK kit and a sustainiac. The Variax stuff was never an option though. 😀👍
I reset my audio device twice because this sounded so bad - the whole thing sounded like a hardware error
It’s pronounced “MOWg” (as in, mow the lawn) not “MOOg” (as in 🐄). 👍🏼
The illustration was very helpful here. I have no issues with being corrected if there is a general consensus around a particular pronunciation. Thank you! 🙏
@@lofileif Hi. Lol, not sure if that illustration comment was a deliberate joke, but it made me chuckle … unfortunately, there is no ‘person mowing a lawn’ emoji, or you would have received the full set. 😉 It (“MOWg”) is the pronunciation that Robert Arthur Moog himself preferred/requested. As I understand it, it has more than a little to do with his wife not appreciation the association with 🐄s, otherwise … which is understandable … ☺️. I would usually ‘correct’ (if I am very sure about something) more casually by skipping the correct pronunciation etc into the conversation, as eg Marcys Aurelius would encourage, but that doesn’t work at all in this forum (nor as well across different first languages/accents). Anyway, was just FYI … you live in a (very nice and very) free country, though, I assume from your accent. 🙂 Nice video, btw - sub’d. All this virtual/MIDI guitar stuff is like a bottomless rabbit-hole of possibilities, but no ‘worse’ than drone warfare, robot dogs, AI podcasters, and all the other tech that is developing at an increasingly concerning rate … It rather makes me appreciate my simple old instruments, amps and pedals etc, that much more. Likewise, reading a real, physical book. 🙂 I guess I must be getting old … ☺️. Be well!
Good video that demonstrates the guitar pretty thoroughly.
But to highlight & celebrate a supposedly terrific instrument, you treat us mostly to offensive electronic noise.
And I say that as owner of a Godin SA Multiac guitar: a fine instrument with built-in synthetic access. But it's not a noise box. Paired with a Roland synthesizer you can use it to emulate other instruments with sampled sound, and yes you can modify and alter the sound it produces to extremes. Just as you can play an electric guitar & slap on overdrive to create noise. But the Moog is presented here mostly to produce noise only.
The overly synth-centric muszak of the 1980s is dead. Thank god.
The synth-focused mania of the 1960s was driven by it's novelty and is equally dead. Perhaps the best thing it produced was sound effects for the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy radio play, and the 'Switched On Bach' vinyl recording that proved you could render Bach's fast-driven piano pieces without emotion or phrasing, with mechanical monotony. But then, Glenn Gould had already proved that humans can play with all the emotional range of a metronome: we didn't need an actual robotic metronome to render Bach boring. But sure, it was novel.
There are brief examples of the instrument being used in the video to produce actual music. The Spanish guitar sample at 18 min. is eye-opening. Latency is the Achilles heel of Godin's synth access guitars, a limitation more of the Roland Synths than the guitar. But this Moog appears to have near-zero latency. I wanted to hear a direct comparison. And the Godin doesn't cope with strums well in synth output: it rewards single notes at a time and requires very clean technique. This guitarist has exceptional technique and plays VERY cleanly, but the instrument appears able to cope with multiple note input - strums for instance - with aplomb. Again, I wanted to hear the reviewer discuss that. But no, he returns to demonstrating support for a Foley artist, and says while you can use the instrument to produce music, "It's not really suited for that." OK.
Thank you for your review of what you seem to consider to be my review of this instrument.
Let me start out by saying that I find the lack of openness to differences in musical aesthetics totally off-putting. I draw inspiration from Iannis Xenakis, Anthony Braxton, Paul Bley , Berio, Scelsi, and even more from György Ligeti and Schoenberg. Pat Metheny, , Meshuggah, or John Zorn. All of these have been accused of making noise music.
This channel is all about MIDI Guitar, and this (one) video was an excursion into an application case study. What will the Moog Guitar add as a controller?
I urge you to take a look at the rest of the videos on this channel and then come back. You seem to be of the mistaken opinion that the Moog Guitar in itself would have faster handling of MIDI than your Godin. The secret is not the guitar - it is the software that converts the guitar output into MIDI.
You are disappointed with the reviewer for not talking about what you wanted him to talk about? Take a look at the ten of fifteen videos that preceded this one on this channel. OK.
how does one get ahold of this guitar now ?
Oh, I am not sure you can (or even should strive to) get one. They are terribly overpriced. The only reason I made this video was that I already have one of these, and I just realized that the combination of its audio with MIDI output now actually works, as opposed to my earlier attempts at using this together with the Roland gear (GR-55, VG99 or GP10) with their sounds. That is a disaster. But if you are rich beyond compare they show up on Reverb or other second-hand market places occasionally. 👍
I remember being a college student when videos of this guitar came out and I remember thinking it looks ugly but sounds radical beyond belief and maybe in 10 years this thing will be copied to hell and get cheaper. Sadly, not what happened. The whole guitar landscape could have been different if this thing would have succeeded.
I had something similar. They’re terrible.
What does "something similar" mean here? Another color, or are you thinking about the E1? I am not going to question your judgement though. I have thought of this as terrible many times. 😆 Just interested in what "similar" could mean:
Wondering if Jonny Greenwood and Thom Yorke have got one of these? (Pretty sure they'll at least know about them...). 🙏🏻 ❤🔥
They would have one if they wanted one … and they don’t … 😉
God I want one!
Well, there are some out there on the aftermarket still, but as everybody knows about their scarcity, the prices are unreasonably high, I am afraid. 😬
“Not the Mama!”, I mean not a guitar, but a synth interface in guitar form instead of keyboard form.
Nothing really wrong with it, but NOT a guitar, even though blend-able.
All kinds of things available and trigger-able, but maybe don’t let it dictate how you play the guitar (too much).
It’s just a tool. ❤
Well, it is very much a guitar. Just turn down the VO power and you skip the sustaining/muting action. And all you have left is a guitar where there is a choice to use or not use its filters. I can certainly sound like a synth if you 1) add effects to the acoustic output, and use the infinite sustain to move away from the traditional dynamics of a guitar string decay when it loses energy and stops vibrating. The other way 2) is to convert the acoustic output into MIDI and have that trigger synth sounds. A strategy that is also on display in this video.
For the last statement, I agree 100 %. You should not let it dictate how you play. It is just a tool. But there is nothing stopping you from drawing inspiration from a tool. 👍
Sinceramente, prefiero a moog en sintetizador. 😁
sounds like garbage
While that makes me sad to hear, I have to accept that there can be differences in opinion also over things aesthetic.
NO THANKS
Feedback!?!? This video sux 😡😡
Yes, perhaps. But why are you communicating this? Do you want me to change anything in particular?
It's nonsense for people with too much money. Like if fender or Gibson made a synth. You're just paying for a collectable item with a brand name
Yes, there is obviously nothing special about any guitar. Ever. You are always paying too much. 💸💸💸
What makes it “nonsense”? It isn’t a synth. It’s an electroacoustic sustain system, built with a fairly unique approach and set of features. And so what if the brand name is Moog? No one else built one! This whole way of thinking is similar to dismissing those newfangled electric guitars because there’s nothing wrong with a good old fashioned acoustic.
You’d think what you said would put me off.