Tai Chi & Mystical Chi Powers
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- Опубликовано: 25 мар 2020
- Here’s a linguistics lesson for you about the difference between “chi” and “tai chi”. The unfortunate similarity in the old romanization of those two words (as opposed to the modern pinyin “qi” and “taiji”) has caused a great deal of confusion in the English speaking martial arts world.
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*How to do Hadouken:*
⬇️ ↘️ ➡️ + Punch button
Downright fierce
😉
The mighty Sonic Boom style is also quite powerful.
It's splitting hairs, but the tangent about Pugilism really hit home -- I'm a *fighter*, not a martial artist (as any art or aesthetic style is utterly incidental to my own training), and it strikes me as naive when people try to overly codify a style meant for any practical use... diversify yer skill sets, y'all.
A guy used that in UFC one time...
It’s kinda crazy how I remember how difficult it was to learn that simple move only to be evaded by the other player
It would be like people conflating the meaning of "Martial" and "Marshal."
Martial Art is a codified system & tradition of combat for self defence, law enforcement & military.....Marshal Art is CHUCK (Walker Texas Ranger) NORRIS.........lol
Martial Mathers
...and marital...
Sure like martial Dillion
Soo..you're saying martial artists are NOT really, really, good, drum majors who often work with deputies?
I saw exactly the Taijichuan when I was 16 hanging out with my Chinese friends at their church. A young man I didn't know came up behind us as we were leaving and grabbed the sleeve of one of my friends. My friend joint locked the guy's arm, unbalanced him with a short sweep and threw him over his shoulder onto the ground. It was the smoothest thing ever and was exactly the same movement as the Taijichuan "two handed push."
I've never seen anyone else since then less who is than 40 years old do Taijichuan! lol
did you ask if he practice Taichi?
@@bongkem2723, yes.
That's very interesting. He was either a prodigy, or trained rigorously from an early age. His sifu must have been something else, too. Was his skill level common in his school, or was he pretty much the best of his age group?
@@raksh9 He didn't practice contemporaneously with me in high school, as far as I knew. He had no other athletic endeavors. The only Taichi school in town was run by a guy my instructor had settled beef with way back in the day (by sparring) -- so I am sure my friend learned in Taiwan, not Arlington, Texas. I think you re looking for explanation where one needn't e given. He learned a Taichi technique that is found in Judo, Daitoryu akijiujitsu, and aikido (and maybe other places) and then did it probably just as he'd trained to. I don't think anyone needs to be a prodigy, have rigorous training, or a sifu who walks on water to learn how to apply basic techniques.
@@themaverickblackbelt8054 That's not the angle I was taking, although it may have seemed that way.
Years ago, I trained in a kungfu school that attracted a range of students, everyone from tofu munching 'feel the chi' hippies to overseas Wushu students and cross trainers from kickboxing and boxing.
The only young person with decent skill in applications was, like your example, a student from Taiwan. He previously trained under a classically trained master who, from what I understand, emphasized basics, lots of hands on practice, The otherwise acrobatic wushu kids didn't have enough experience in apps, and only the older students with sufficient self motivation and/or cross training demonstrated standing grappling skills like you described. Our master trained us more for health and performance than fighting, but he did run a very small san shou class for those interested.
The smoothness of technique that you implied in your initial description reminded me of that Taiwanese guy I knew. And he got that skill from the right kind of training from a relatively young age from a master who emphasized careful practice of basics and hands on training.
Also, "qi" is not just a mystical term. It's a term of traditional Chinese medicine (in which it means more than just "breath"), which taiji practitioners used to describe the feeling in their body as they practice correct body mechanics, because that was their physiological model. You and I use western physiology to describe our body mechanics when you do MMA and I do Taiji, but using "qi" is not harmful *as long as you use it for the correct purpose*: as a way to understand 19th century Chinese people describing their body mechanics. If anyone talks about magic qi powers you immediately know they are a charlatan.
'Qi' in traditional Chinese medicine means invisible substances that have effects. More specifically, Chinese medicine divides 'qi' into many categories: nutrient qi (营气), immune qi (卫气), reproduction qi (精气), etc. Clearly, ancient people used the term to describe something that they know exists and has effects but they could not observe them, just like air, another meaning of qi. It really isn't as mystical as later people make it to be.
YES! THANK YOU.
@@outsky20051 so, the same way ancient Greeks introduced "Ether" as the fifth element?
Wei Lei used the magic part of Taichi. Not enough time to cast the spell when he used his face to block Xiaodong's fist.
I know Tai chi has to do with magic energy because Jake mace said so
Who's Jake Mace?
@@richardrichardhaleysguitar8810 Keep it that way. 😏
@@richardrichardhaleysguitar8810 The ubermost gaylord of martial arts.
Condolences!
@@richardrichardhaleysguitar8810 i envy you 😬
I taught Taiji for years at a local college and always discouraged use of the word chi. I could never think of any intelligent way to tie it to the act of practicing. But I did spell it tai chi because it’s what people are used to seeing
Thank you for the linguistic clarifications, I had a general understanding of these but not as detailed. One thing you should know about the slow-mo forms of Tai Chi outside martial arts practice is they're extremely useful in physical therapy, not only for elderly people suffering from different types of arthritis, but also for motion range recovery after major trauma or joint surgery and for balance recovery after some types of cerebral stroke. Around here there are both therapists learning Tai Chi and some wushu masters collaborating with medical recovery centers. Some taolu forms were also successfully applied for the same purpose and there were cases of spectacular effects compared to classical therapy, especially on stroke recovery and major trauma rehabilitation.
"Taiji" is really a concept in Daoist cosmogony. Daoists believe that in the very beginning there was wuji, void, pure nothingness; out of which an absolute state (like eight compass points reaching all the way to infinity) emerged. After this state, the relative aspects (up and down, light and dark, hot and cold) and all the things of the world sprang out to existence. It is the second absolute state of "maximum polarity/maximal poles" what the "Taiji" in Taijiquan refers to. (BTW, there's also a Wujiquan that's unrelated to Taijiquan.)
As far as I understand the "internal mechanics" of Taiji, it's a type of posture where structural weaknesses in any given movement are reduced to their minimum - the proverbial "absolute state" - which is trained, practised and acquired by the use of standing post exercises and slow solo form. In easier terms, it's about having the "good frame" even in grappling positions where you normally would not expect those to be.
I have a friend who in his spare time researches the history of Kung Fu here in China, and while you're correct, Tai Ji along with other forms of martial arts actually started out as purely combative forms and the spiritual aspects were added later after martial arts in China took a downturn due to social, economic and changes in the availability of reliable weapons. Basically they added the mystic part of it to keep the art alive because that was the only way they could (at least with more than a few of the arts my friend has studied).
@@Mharriscreations That's not exactly correct, though. It seems that many martial arts have been heavily intertwined with mysticism and medicine since a long time ago. Taiji is a good case in point, since it was almost certainly influenced by Zhang Naizhou's writings. Those treatises do of course handle practical things such as fighting, but also make very heavy connections with quasi-religious theories and directly reference the importance of boxing with building a healthy body of longevity.
AFAIK, though, many people from Chen village also made their living as caravan guards, so they also had a pragmatic reason for them to train (and use) their fighting skills.
Taiji is what created the 2 polarities. It is the universal force that you can see in the largest things (black hole) and the smallest (sea shell). It’s what happened when the universe was created, any animal is born and also the same process happens everytime a thought is created. The martial art was designed to mimic this concept. That’s why learning it becomes much more than a martial art....it becomes mindfulness
"And that's fine if they do that. That's perfectly fine."
But it was not fine.
I've had a similar linguistic revelation when looking into the origins of the first art I studied. American Kenpo Karate.
Karate is an interesting word, but generally easy to understand. The Kanji didn't change, but its meaning did mostly due to politics in Japan in the early 1900s. It used to mean China Hand, but now it means Empty Hand. Okay, so it definitely came from China. This isn't disputed, and it's easy to find information on this.
Kenpo, on the other hand, is confusing. It also came from China where the Kanji are pronounced Quan Fa. (Chu'an Fa, in the older translations.) This literally means Fist Law, or Fist Method. But as you pointed out, Quan means fist but is used to mean fighting in all contexts. Fa similarly is used to mean method or technique. To jump to the point, Quan Fa was used simply to describe any form of hand-to-hand combat. So much so that it generically translates to "boxing."
The revelation here is that Quan Fa is not a specific martial art, but just a word used to describe fighting methods. Similarly, Kenpo was historically used as the generic. "This is my family's Kenpo." But as the arts were becoming popular with the US, the generic words were taken to mean the specific styles, and therefore Kenpo Jujitsu (Jujitsu/Jujustu is another discussion altogether), became Kenpo Karate, and the confusion of the meanings behind Japanese and Chinese words spread through the martial arts community in the US.
I find that the pronunciation of the word Tai Chi and Energy/breathe in Cantonese makes it more obvious that they are not the same word.
Also if we put a lot of these older and traditional martial arts back into their original context in the same way Hema tries to recreate that medieval context, would we be able to find out more of its original purposes?
Definitely! The problem is that a lot of information about Chinese Martial arts got destroyed in the cultural revolution. It's hard to get written down manuals or to find someone who actually still knows how to use these styles in a fight. As Mr Dewey said above, there are a lot of charlatans teaching Kung Fu who don't actually know what it is. HEMA is a bit easier, because there are a lot of manuals left. Fencing books of the 18th century British Navy or Wrestling Manuals of 15th century German knights for example. So if you take a class on lets say Polish Saber Fencing and aren't sure if your teacher is competent, invest 50 bucks and buy a copy of Richard Marsden's book for example and check if what you're learning is legit. But if you want to do this with Taiji, you have to dig through piles of bullshit before finding a legit written down source.
I think the origins and meanings of most Chinese martial arts are lost because of wars in the 20th century. There was the boxer uprise, in which many martial artists died (Guns vs. hands). Then the Mao revolution and their cultural war, which killed history first and reinvented it thereafter.
So nowadays there is only a shadow left and it's similar to HEMA.
Taijiquan is a full-blown martial art (including punches, kicks, blocks, throws, joint locks etc). The expression "taiji" is from Daoist philosophy; this "supreme ultimate" and is rather similar to the "prime mover" of Aristotelian philosophy. so "taijiquan" means roughly "martial art based on Daoist philosophy"
Yes very good. Also some schools include stressing the point of breathing correctly while moving which does improve circulation and strength because your body is inhaling and releasing breath while striking
Correct breathing is a component of every martial art: Ramsey has videos on this too.
@@liorsilberman6757 very good. We're all in agreement lol
Agreed. There's grappling, but also a ton of punches and kicks in Tai Chi. And extremely effective punches at that. (Hence the excellent book "Tai chi boxing")
I’ve been really into combat applications in Tai chi for the last two years, and one thing I’m seeing is that it’s almost all grappling and takedowns.
One problem I see here in the States is the same with stand up fighting styles : people think you can learn with no contact.
pretty sure you can learn with no contact if your wise and astute enough... same with anything in life.... most ma is complete as taught and is left for the student to think and refine... if sifu thinks your the type to steal the darkside of the arts and rob banks and bully old people then youre obviously going to be left out of the loop... but i get ya, your a modern bloke who wants your ma along with having a modern life.... ma takes a lifetime.... and thats just to learn it..... i had it drilled into me from a young age that it takes 3 years just to horse stance! and the sifu knows if you have it after the first week....
antwango you can learn the shapes of the movements on your own, but if you practise only in isolation and never put hands on a resisting opponent, you can never hope to learn 'fighting' with those shapes. Maybe a genius can, or some sort of martial arts wunderkind, but the average guy or gal is going to have to spar and train with resisting opponents if they are actually to put their solo practise into context.
Thank you, Dewey.
I have had to have this conversation with many people, some of whom say that 太极拳 is their primary martial art style... but they have never learned the characters, or even the correct pronunciation of the art.
太(tai)=supreme, grand, very very large.
极(ji)=ultimate, best, pinnacle, top.
拳(quan)=fist, boxing, roughly 'to fight'.
气(qi)=breath, wind, air/gas.
This qi is only "energy" in the same way that the Hindus and Buddhists talk about 'prana' (wind/ breath) as energy, in tends of 'the breath of life' not like "the force" but more like while you have breath you have a spirit.
谢谢
石头
thank you for your excellent and informed description of not only Tai Ji but also clarification of the linguistic confusion. And for just not saying Tai Ji is shit in general. I really appreciate it.
I practice Taiji Quan and teach it, I'd like to share some concepts that I notice people also tend to get confused with:
In Taiji we also have a concept called "Fa Jin" which is "emiting power". Basically, it's finding the more effective way to express power without using too much strength, so it's really about efficient refined movement. And the "pushing hands" that is our most common partner drill can be practiced hard (a bit like Sumo wrestling) or very light (to developp sensitivity and letting go of unnecessary tensions in the body and the mind).
Sometimes you can see a master training a student through light pushinghands and when he notice a mistake he suddenly emmit power with very minimal movement. The student can feel he's thrown out of balance, not necesseraly a lot but enough to move his feet.
Some school exagerated it on demonstrations, the student "surfed" on the energy, stepping further than he should've, to highlight what's going on, because for someone looking, not much usually happens. And some schools like to let you think the master is so powerful he can throw people several yards away, except it's the student who's following the force (a bit like in Aikido) even if it was very light.
And then, born from this kind of practice, there is this little game called "Fa gong" which has nothing to do with fighting anymore. Where you just surf on your partners energy , sometimes without even touching them, it's fun but it's also kinda silly. And this is when things start to slip... Some school try to let you believe this little game is the martial art, and put all their time in this silly game, and some charlatans use it to teach their student to become very very very compliant so they can look good all the time. And that's how you change a legit martial art into a scam...
Thank you for that info. Now I can start to understand Tai ji. I had no idea it was a grappling style which is why it never made sense to me. I was told Tai Ji Kwan was Grand Ultimate Fist and the word Qi was breath. I never associated them together. You really put Tai Ji in perspective now. Thank you.
Taijiquan is largely a grappling art because it emerged in the 17th and 18th century when combatants in China carried spears and swords and also wore some level of armor. Standing grappling is effective in such situations as one does not want to go to the ground due to others carrying bladed weapons.
It was enlightening to hear Taichi is primarily a grappling art. Seems to make a lot of sense. Thanks!
There is a lot of great points in this video especially that Tai Chi emphasizes grappling. I don't think that there is a real way for the average person to ever cultivate "Chi" / "Qi" in a way to give you mystical powers to fight per se (although there are a few very high level practitioners who can do some surprising stuff with internal skills...hard to say if it's practical tho). However there is a connection between Tai Chi and "Qi" that I think you missed.
Qigong is moving meditation that enhances "qi" for health and vitality, and it's a great grandparent of Tai Chi (whether or not there's any real energy is debatable, but it certainly makes you feel good like yoga does but more powerful). The forms of Tai Chi (and some forms of kung fu) do bear some resemblance to the Qi Gong forms in certain spots, and do give you some similar vibes in terms of activating a similar feeling of circulating energy and increasing vitality. You can see there is a connection there if you experience both. Especially Tai Chi's emphasis on muscle relaxation at all times, which makes the vitality aspect more potent. Which is why it probably got picked up as a health exercise as well. Tai Chi also can emphasize a lot of meditation while moving and integration with Daoist principles as well which also help cultivate more Qi.
The energy that is used in Tai Chi is more like, having more control of the kinetic energy within your body, in order to do that though you get a lot of the health and vitality Qi as a nice side effect.
So yes, mystical powers probably not (unless in some genius level edge cases). But to say there is no connection between Tai Chi and Chi isn't quite right either.
Hey, from a taiji guy: THANK YOU! :-) That mystical image is doing so much harm to the art. So there can't be enough poeple that set the record straight in a constructive way. Along with the misinterpretation of the terms another thing that happened to taiji is the creation of the beijing form during the 50s (the party wanted to promote it as form of gymnastics) and the cultural revolution(As far as i understand taiji was forbidden for long streches of time).
Also worth noting that the change from Tai Chi Chuan and Chi energy to Taijiquan and qi energy is simply the change in romanization from Wade-Giles to Pinyin
I used to practice Thai chi 20 years ago, and it was just as Ramsey describes it. A good workout for my bad spine, wrapped in a lot of mysteries about letting the chi flow. I was even manipulated into believing in it, by being thrown around by a "manipulation by my center" move, which in hindsight simply was a wrestling move. But it WAS good for my spine! It felt like a weird combination of Yoga and wrestling.
Good breakdown. I practice Chen Taijiquan (in addition to Baguazhang and Xingyiquan), and I also have experience in other grappling arts (BJJ, and also some Judo and Jujutsu.) Taiji is primarily a grappling art, but it also includes kicks, punches, elbows, knees, and shoulder and hip strikes. In Chen style, these are emphasized quite a lot. The taolu certainly functions as a shadow wrestling/boxing exercise, but it is also a strength and conditioning exercise, as is zhanzhuang (the standing post exercises you’re probably familiar with, often mischaracterized as “standing meditation.”) Taolu and zhanzhuang build the structure and body mechanics for Taijiquan’s method of power generation.
One way to define Taijiquan might be - the Taiji concept fist system, or more elaboratively, a fist system based on the dynamic relationship between Yin (negative, receptive, structural) and Yang (positive, active, formless essence) forces within the body and martial art applications.
It really takes a real martial artist to understand the meaning of traditional martial art forms. It is a shame those so called masters, often don't know their art.
I remember to see a video of one traditional martial art master in China, who was talking about the form and their application. He said pretty much the same thing as Ramsey "nobody understand the meaning of forms anymore".
The best is to do a lot of sparring and learn legit techniques that are used in combat sports, aside traditional training, to find where they overlap. MMA is an excellent if not the best laboratory for that.
Amen.
Thank you for this. This might be the best video about taiji quan out there. 👍
I've been following your channel for a while now. I've learned a lot. I was interested in taichi, but was discouraged cuz of the lack of application and not knowing it was a grappling style. I've seen past videos about the subject so ik now. But I just haven't gotten around to trying it.
It's pretty cool. It's basically standing grappling (as the majority of Chinese grappling arts, with the exception of Qin Na and maybe one or two others are basically all standing grappling styles) full of sweeps, trips, throws, and some clinch striking.
This was a very good lesson for those not versed in the art’s meaning original meaning. I myself am interested in Taijiquan because of Tim Cartmell’s explanations about the art being near 80% grappling and Dr. Yang, Jwing Ming’s DVD (I hope to get it eventually) of Taiji wrestling. This made me want to look at how the art could be made applicable to modernity by sifting out the fact from the fiction.
By the way, by pugilism, what people typically mean is the BKB systems of around Pre-Broughton to London Prize days, back when throws, kicks, and locks were permissible. Fighting Arts of England is a good source because they do practical drills and sparring in the system.
Here where I live in south america it means literally boxing, but is used somewhat differently since it's a fancier word for it, it's used to describe fancier styles of boxing like outboxers, technical counter punchers, etc and to separate them from brawlers.
Do you think the misinterpretation came from people not really understanding how oxygen helps to delivery energy to the muscles or to help promote explosive power(fajin) coupled with the linguistic complication?
I practice taichi (slow form, for focus, meditation, balance etc..) but also MMA and from the start, have been fascinated with the (mostly lost) application of the techniques contained in those forms. Your videos were the first one to guide me to the 'taichi is grappling' realization. ;-) Still haven't found anybody to teach me all those intricacies but with continued MMA (boxing, BJJ, wrestling) and experimentation I'm confident I might figure some of them out over time. ;-)
Thank you for grounding martial arts in reality, as they should be. :-)
I like the music you make and put in the videos. Just wanted to mention it since I never see it brought up in the comments. Do you make it for the videos, or do you just happen to enjoy composing music, and add them to the ends of videos as an afterthought?
Mystical energy... "chi masters" really act as if they can summon fire balls or create magical barriers. 😂
Chi, ki, prana, life force, all those words aren't supposed to illustrate some mystical energy that gives you magical powers. It's just the energy that's found in all life. From my Western perspective that tends to break things down to the basics; chi or energy work seems more about gaining awareness of the "energy" that flows through your body or more precisely, your nervous system. Chakra points coincide with dense nerve clusters if I recall correctly (it's been a while since I've studied this.) Once you gain awareness, you work on directing it gently on a microcosmic degree (whatever that means, I guess very precise movements.) So, an actual chi master won't be able to shoot fire balls out of their hands but in theory they should have phenomenal control of their body. If you're training your body, you're using your chi. The more control and technique you develop, the more of a chi master you actually are. Ramsey is no doubt a real chi master. 🤠
Good video, very educational.
Its amazing how 'destabilize your opponents balance while maintaining your own' morphed into 'use the force Luke'
Ive actually done quite a lot of tai chi, i guess these days Im one of those 'old people' doing it for keep fit every day, but having been a fighter its obvious where the motions came from.
What i DID learn from this video was the language nuances, I honestly thought it was chi = qi, although I was under the impression it meant 'breathing' - and that was to be taken as term for health, rather than the force.
Hi Ramsey, can you show more applications from the tai chi long form? I learned the 108 wu style but find it hard to pick out the core application for each movement - Also thank you for the awesome content you have put together over the years :)
Quan gets translated as fist or boxing.
But one thing I immediately noticed the first time I saw the Chinese character for it...
The lower component of the character is the same as the Japanese 'te' - found in Karate.
Which means 'hand'.
With this translation in mind, you get a wider interpretation than just 'boxing'.
Basically: Unarmed Combat.
To clarify, I mean 'te' = hand.
Not Karate = hand.
(It's Empty hand)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Tai Ji. I started learning this back in 99 and never occurred to me consider if it is a striking or grappling art. Strangely my instructor then started to teach the class some fundamental Southern Praying Mantis strikes after a few of years of establishing the Tai Ji fundamentals.
There was one fundamental theory that was drilled into us in class which I did not understand in the early days there. He kept telling us to not break contact with the opponent as it is too dangerous... and if we detect that he is breaking contact, hit him immediately. It made more sense after experiencing that sudden surge of NFI when the opponent broke contact during a sparring session.
I really like that you went into depth about what Taiji really is. My Sifu always ask new students if they are coming to learn the martial art or the hippy acid dance. Most people come for the acid dance because older population do it for their health and not for fighting.As far as the fighting portion, he always broke it down saying every Chinese martial art Ti (kicking) Da (punching) Shuai jiao ( wrestling) , Chin na (joint manipulations) and weapons. Our lineage focuses on the techniques being 70% Shuai jiao and chin na and the other 30% on striking.
This is a great video
Great perspective on the inaccuracies of Western interpretations of traditional martial arts
Excellent, thank you.
Thanks for explaining, I was one of those who thought the "chi" in taichi was that same other chi.
I have some friends in a competitive push hands group I sometimes go play with. I mostly use other arts adapted to their rule set when I visit, but the guys who only train there have some good stuff. It's really cool how their concepts hua na fa seem to align with judo's kuzushi tsukuri kake.
Even the "Qi" character meaning breath have very little to do with "magic". In fact almost every martial arts train the breathing/moving coordination. Also about the slow motion forms, they have a lot to do with the leg muscles conditioning (with very much low postures than the average video footage, or at least that's the way that I train). Great video Ramsey, sorry about the lame english 😅
Cool having some of your music
I love Tai Chi, particularly Chen Style. I just wish it was easier to find legitimate combat practice Tai Chi. Granted I'm knocking on the door of 40 my window for stepping into the ring is long over, but the simple opportunity to contextualize the hand form would be amazing. Finding a teacher who doesn't start talking about Chi and moving meditation would also be great
Try checking out a Sanda/Sanshou style school if they're in your area. Those are the least mystic in their approach to Taijiquan that I've seen in the West.
lol taichi isnt for you to prove yourself in the ring.... and the moving meditation stuff most probably western teachers.... basically you westerners will never learn the mystical magic practical stuff ahahaha.... seriously find yourself a chinese teacher, go to hk or china.... my bloody uncle knowing i was obsessed with ma was acting like the pink panther butler guy and jumping my uncle at the most inopportune moments showed me to illustrate a point hidden muy thai techniques and forms within tai chi... the usual fluid flowery movements flowing into an uncanny muy thai ready stance with double elbow strikes clinch and knee before flowing back out into a low tai chi transition sweep blew my mind.... uncle grinned at me and never showed me again.... also the fight techniques are just slight adjustments to what you already know and familiar with, but you need time and tuning to realign yourself again 40 is a spring chicken my friend! but dont take that as getting into the ring lol
that was quite enlightening. Did not know Tai Chi Chuan was a grappling art, but it does seem to explain some of the movements. Are there places where they still practice the emphasis on the grappling aspect?
Doing tai chi builds your chi, if you are energy sensitive you can feel it opening your chakras and energy centers. Its good for health and builds your spiritual energy. Most martial arts shows are tricks tho i agree.
The beats at the end are amazing
There are a lot of sanda schools that teach tai chi along with sanda which proves its effectiveness and nothing spiritual like mystical chi powers work so tai chi(works) chi(spiritual doesn’t work in a fight but is very good for other things).
Thank u mr ramsey for another education show
Finally someone says it! Thank you Ramsey.
I've been practising Taijiquán for many years now. I'm even an instructor but mostly for the health part for I'm not trained in the fighting. I'm trying to rediscover the martial part in Taijiquán by looking for applications and partner drills. But other than that I have no knowledge of fighting. I have a question'
: should I take on some grappling lessons, to learn from there so I can apply it to my Taiji game or should I just stick to Taijiquán and try to find the martial from within? If so what would be an efficient method to do so other than by practising the application with more and more resistance? Thanks for your videos and help 🙏
For sure, take some grappling lessons- learn how to wrestle, learn judo and jiu-jitsu. When you have that context of grappling experience, a lot of the taiji forms can start to open up and make a lot of sense.
What style you are doing of Taiji? Yang in my opinion looks a lot like crane kung fu, maybe a reason why the YMAA guy Jwing-Ming Yang specialised in both systems. As far as chin na and some other stuff concerned it is usable.
Can your editing software print the tone marks "accents"?
Good sir, would you be so kind as to do more technique videos(in striking, grappling, etc. to because i love them) on this subject? I've seen the golf swing takedown and am using it regularly, but i would like to know more since i'm still a novice. Thank you in advance
Lavall Marshal is a top level Shuaijiao guy and he has a youtube channel where he teaches some Shuaijiao moves, such as the hook step push takedown and that's practically identical to some Tai Chi forms.
Ramsey,could you make a video of applied taiji?
I would like to know how some of the forms work.
Nicely done
Those Tai Chi scams just really rub me the wrong way... My first Kung Fu gym was led by someone like that (and a lot worse, but that's a different and personal story), trying to explain to us that we were creating Chi mana balls between our hands in meditaion sessions. Well, for certain reasons I wouldn't want to train there anymore, anyways, and this was another reason not to, and I went to a different gym. The teacher there called his form Traditional Shaolin Kung Fu, as that sells well (the other was named something with a Mantis and focussing on animal styles, surprise), and what he taught was interesting. I was positively shocked when one of the first things he explained was that no Shaolin monk believes that whole Chi bullshit, anyways, and that that's a western invitation to make it sound more mystical and because are people are stupid. And that when he talked about Chi, what he meant was: BREATHE! Relax and analyze Re-focus! Nothing magical, no mystical Kung Fu powers, but actual fighting skills. Oh - he also made us and joined us in full-contact sparring, soooo... yeah, there is actual good TMA out there, just way too many idiots like those Tai Chi "masters" ruining it all, disgracing the actual fighting arts and also endangering a rich cultural fortune by completely mystifying and perverting it. Thanks for the language lessen, coach, and stay safe and healthy!
Well Chi Balls are a thing of dungeons and dragons, i think and with it got a hype. BUT there are Taiji Ball excercises using a physical ball, sometimes hollow sometimes complete of stone, probably could as well use a bowling ball.
Grand ultimate fist!! I miss taichi. I should really start practicing it again a long side muay thai.
Uggh. I did not need the image of an old person in a singlet. Thanks, Ramsey.
Hey Ramsey do you know any school that practices taijiquan it sounds interesting
I leaned something: qi or chi is the use of air pressurised in the lungs to give added stability.
Ex: breath hold to dead lift
Pressurized air can trigger the vagal nerve and give you more energy.
But also if the breath is released too fast one can pass out.
tai chi shawn is a grappling art
It was always thought to me as shadow boxing.
I had a hard time imagine an opponent because I never saw one in training 😋
And i was totally told about the ball ir balloon. Now i think they meant to keep a space there to be able to move.
Oh and my teacher pretended (out of the blue) to punch me in the chest and stoped 1 cm away. I froze and nearly fell backwards. (I was talking with him casually so both feet toward him so unstable)
Great video i learn.
Or in this case un learn 😋
Thanks for this video! I can't tell you how irksome it can get trying to explain how Tai Ji Quan/Tai Chi is essentially Chinese Clinch fighting and standing grappling to people who think it's just a mystical poo pooh art. The funny thing is that it's often grapplers themselves who have the worst view of the art even though it's not really that different from what they themselves do.
Hey coach this may be a odd question to ask, but. what do you use to mix your music?
I really love your shows my man. Still wanna know what your dream fight would be....
Mr. Rogers vs Bob Ross.
"You came to the wroooong neighborhood!"
"Ima plant a happy little tree in your ass!"
Say, what's your opinion on "Shadow wrestling," as you called Taichi? I've seen this sort-of-kind-of in Judo's Tandoku Renshu, which can be a form of that. How would one develop a training system for doing that (would it be similar to tandoku renshu or taichi or both?) I think the concept is really interesting and could be really useful.
For those interested.
极 is a simplified form of the character 極.
that is the same character used in 極真 - kyokushin (karate).
Kyokushin karate is a great many things, but it sure isn't very mystical.
I agree with him about Tai Chi having great grappling. You can laugh at the pushing hands practice, but it you do it right you can find/fix instabilities in your balance. The other thing people do not realize is that you perform the movements slow so that you can perfect body alignment in all your movements. That means you can use Isaac Newtons first 3 laws to produce more power and damage.
Do you think it is possible to restore Taijiquan to a "complete" art in the same sense that Judo is complete (yet authentic in its heritage)? It's one thing to know what it was, or to study the techniques to augment fighting skill built through another discipline, but in its original conception, Taijiquan wasn't just an auxiliary practice, but a whole art. What do you think it would take for Taijiquan to become whole? Is it just impossible now? Has too much been lost?
Thanks for the reality checks!
Coach Ramsey, strangely enough there is a martial art called 太气拳, or Taikiken in Japan. It's basically a modification of Xingyi Quan/Yiquan but minus the forms and an emphasis on meditation, technical sparring and sticking hand drill. I believe Mas Oyama did learn a bit of it as he sparred regularly with the founder, Kenichi Sawai.
I always liked that amusing "origin story", that in Chen village, from where taiji originated, they have wall around village, so main taiji teachings were about staying stable on the wall and throwing off (grappling!) people trying to go pass it ;). Main benefit - as mundane as story can be.
Not even that Taiji is orginatetd in Chenjiagou is true!
@@Gieszkanne Maybe, who cares. It definitely propagate trough that place, which make story valid enough to be amusing.
@@kamilri The rabbit burrow is deeper Yang Luchan didnt learn the Chen boxing! Also he was the first who called his style Taiji. After seeing his success in Beijing Chen Fake also went to Beijing and starting to call their family boxing also Taiji. Befrore that Chen Quan never was called Taiji. I think they did create that whole Taiji is from Chenjiagou thing because they liked it as communist propaganda That the famous Taiji was created in an ordinary village of farmers.
my understanding no matter of the original intent of the martial art, where it sits today is more of a physical exercise thing to improve your health..
Taichi as you speak of it and its demonstration closely resembles what you would see in aikido or similar..
Breath used to mean spirit. Inspire was to breathe in...you're literally breathing in an idea. Expire and you're dead...no more air but also no more soul.
Likewise for the Greek word "pneuma" which you'll see in English as "pneumatic" when talking about air pressure or tires. It'll also show up in metaphysical terms.
Pretty sure most old languages have similar stuff, so I'm thinking back a long time ago they may have actually been more similar in meaning than you might think...the split is obvious in English because we've got Greek & Latin to borrow from but the traces are still there if you look for them.
I'm not a linguist, but I'm thinking something similar may have happened in Chinese and maybe that's why the two words are so similar. Good stuff; I had known there was grappling in Tai Chi, but not that it was originally grapple-centric.
Epic bg music, coach
Adding to the confusion...most taiji practitioners do qigong as a warmup...which I think is absolutely valid for completely mundane and non-magical reasons.
I'd be interested in your opinion about chinese medicine. Do you think there's some deeper knowledge about biomechanics and physiology hidden within it? I'm asking this, because from what I gather, most if not all traditional chinese martial arts use principles from chinese medicine in their techniques and applications (for instance knowledge about meridian lines), which sound very mystical to westerners.
Dewey, there are other names for this too, like early on it was rather called "Thirteen Postures" (十三式), "Long Boxing"(長拳) and "Soft/Cotton/Neutralizing Boxing" (軟/棉/化拳), "kai he" (開合, 开合) or "zhuan he" (转合). Actually the rou quan from shaolin might be a version of Yang Luchans Taiji. The thing that is kind of problematic for many viewers might be, that in yang tai chi it is taught, that the biggest enemy of taiji are uprooting styles, cause once taiji lost the connection to earth it is kind of neutralized. Calling it wrestling is basically the one thing that taiji usually does not want to be, no body slamming dewey.
Brilliant analysis of taiji
I lived at a taijiquan (supreme ultimate fist)school for a few years, the sign was written in english as "taiji boxing" there was nothing gentle about it, the first class i went to was a body conditioning and strengthening class and i the end i was vomiting and on the floor stuggling not to pass out and my head smash on concrete. We had strikes/boxing, grappling, throws, joint locks(chin na),kicks,pushes etc. Push hands was a training exersize for sensitivity and learning to sick and attack, it was not the martial skill merely an aid to understanding part of it. I have never been smashed as hard as i was in that school, it deffinately was nothing like what old people do in the park, yes we had a form, and it was done slowly...mostly...but the body structure, alignment and breathing were very different.
No magic just martial art.
Nice, it sounded like you attended a school that offered some genuine skills. Although, your head smashing on concrete concerns me a bit.
@@ShadowParalyzer after that firts conditioning class i was vomiting, my body was shaking uncontrolably like it was going into shock and i was trying to stay concious on all fours because if i passed out my head would smash the floor, sifu was placing cool wet towels on me....however years latter (as i ended up living with sifu) in training and demos i got smashed into the concrete mant times and staggered up seeing stars. I was never a master but skilled enough to work security at a bar in Thailand. In my mid 50s now , to old for fighting , retired to a small villgage to raise my kids....maybe its time to take up tai chi lol.
hey ramsey what martial arts work in a fight and what doesn't work in a fight
Work works in a fight, not martial arts.
Any schools you can showcase doing functional Taijiquan?
In Chen style they teach you some useful stuff:
ruclips.net/video/dTP16HPFMms/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/Cel1-hIO_dc/видео.html
I once followed a tai chi video tutorial, and at some point the guy said _"what you're feeling in your hands now is your chi, your energy bla bla",_ and I was like, _"no, this is my blood flowing inside my limbs"..._
THANK YOU!!! I want to do real tai chi now! I was already gonna go to back to my old high school and see my tai chi teacher and i cant wait to ask him if he knew tai chi used to be about wrestling!
If he doesn't know, show him Chinese wrestling (Shuaijiao) and see how many of the same techniques that he can see that cross over from Taiji (Tai Chi) and Shuaijiao.
Michael Harris thanks heaps!! I am excited to check it out myself and I will be sure to show him!
I practiced folk style wrestling so I am naturally attracted to tai chi. I think part of the problem also lies in the chinese fondness of poetry. a lot of the early masters tried to describe the movements beautifully and that does not translate well to a modern terse description people want.
thanks for sharing your knowledge with us! a taiji quan I think is badass is chen style
Hey Ramsay I was wondering if tai chi can help other martial arts help with flow like for Muay Thai or kickboxing
Well, taijiquan is a grappling art. Taijijian is sword fighting. If you want to get better at kickboxing, practice kickboxing.
How about experimenting doing Wai khru like Taiji and see if you get positive results after a few weeks or not.
Do you think the misunderstanding is also contributed by the similar Japanese character 気？Given that its respective "Chinese" pronunciation (On-Yomi) is "ki"? And that in this kanji can mean spirit or energy?
Reminds me of an old Zen saying when a Zen Master was asked what their family custom was. (Meaning the family custom of being enlightened. People with Zen enlightenment tend to see each other as family and gossip a lot about each other):
"Having nothing inside, seeking nothing outside"
Well, mystical chi energy powers are definitely a lot more than nothing both inside and out.
Another one:
"A good thing is not as good as nothing"
People preach a lot of good things. Be wary.
My taiji studies began a little more than 40 years ago. I was very fortunate with my first teachers, especially with Dr. Daniel Weng. He was a top student of the renowned shuai jiao expert Chang Tung-sheng, he analyzed almost every movement as primarily grappling and throwing techniques. Dr. Weng rarely spoke of ch'i, but when he did he quoted the Grandmaster as having defined ch'i as "correct technique correctly executed". Not long ago I read an interview with Tim Cartmell in which he stressed that "mind" should be substituted where we read "ch'i", and I agree with him. Ch'i is a real quality, as many other comments here point out, and understanding it is fundamental to understanding certain Chinese cosmological and medical-therapeutic principles. Prana, ki, pneuma, ch'i - all pretty much the same thing, and not really very mysterious at all. And yes indeed, I find it very offensive when I see those bullshido videos purportedly demonstrating "ch'i power fields" and other such crap. That sort of falsehood got people killed during the so-called Boxer Rebellion, and it'll certainly get your ass kicked today if you spout off around any reality-based trained fighter. As always, thanks again to Ramsey Dewey for injecting some much-needed clarity. Delusional thinking is not only delusional, it's dangerous.
The difference in sound is more pronounced in Cantonese. Tai *Gik* Kuen, Vs hei for qi
Thanks
thanks
Taijiquan, Baguazhang, and Xingyiquan are martial arts based on Taoist philosophy and practices. They have some historical links with Wudang, but it's hard to prove because there isn't a lot of written documents available.
Yes, Taijiquan has grappling, but it also has strikes as well. And being a martial art based on Taoism, it does have esoteric training to achieve immortality. Considering how impossible that is, modern day Taoists aim for longevity instead.
See another concept that determines strength/the force of a strike many many people overlook is this: say you grab a soda can and squeeze it , what is it that dictates the ammount of force you are using your physical muscle? Or the mind/nervous system that tells the muscle how hard to work? 🤔 💡
Well I wish you would talk about general Qi jiquang, how he was basically the earliest mixed martial artist
K P Chen family taijiquan appears to derive in part from Qi Jiquang’s boxing manual - the names in the Chen form and its applications are very similar to that described in General Qi’s manual.
@@elliotvernon7971 no it does not... it's a speculation that taichi was called something else during that time cause he does not name taiji specifically but names a movement that maybe related
Yes very good video I agree totally it is a stand up grappling art..
:) I agree. Yet my teacher told me not to try to change it, in china they spell English words wrong all the time. Taiji is a great art also lots of striking taiji cannon fist. Taiji masters are still the best combat guys I've met much better than any bjj or something.
And yet there's no footage of Tai Chi being usefull. 🤔
Do you believe that a healthier fighter has an advantage over one with fatigue of years of interval training ?
Makes me think of Searle's Chinese Room thought experiment.