Thanks! I specifically wanted to get this channel's take on the Worldwide Church of God as I believe you provide the most thorough and unbiased exposition of denominations and cults. In the late 1970s and early 80s, I was taken with the nightly radio broadcasts of Herbert W. Armstrong - "The World Tomorrow." I was challenged by Armstrong to read the Bible on my own - " prove all things" - and I pondered his position on many points - such as the Gospel message stressing the coming earthly government - the Kingdom of God. I listened read, strove to live in accordance with the understanding I was gaining, requested literature, and even shared this doctrine with at least one coworker - who I hope was not misled. I even enrolled in the Ambassador College correspondence course - but didn't progress very far because I became troubled about some aspects of the message coming across. One broadcast, I thought I heard Mr. Armstrong say that many believers respond to the wrong appeal, "Come to Jesus! Come to Jesus!" I wasn't a big, "Jesus," guy - associating the calling of his Name with little, old, emotional church ladies. Yet, something clicked within me - I guess I was humbled - and I felt a surge of conviction that as simplistic as it sounded, we were supposed to, "Come to Jesus": there is salvation in none other. I became disenchanted. Also, getting deeper into the teachings of the church, I felt like they were trying to draw me away from the congregation I was with. The Baptist church I was attending had a relatively new and young pastor who I felt was making an honest effort to guide us the right way in the Word and in our application. It was the family church, but the older ministers had passed on and our current minister was teaching Bible study and encouraging us to, "quit playing church!" So, I began drifting away from the teachings of Armstrong and determined to continue tithing to my current congregation. Adverse events occurred in my life - some I brought on myself, others I mishandled - and eventually, I drifted away from my home church as well. I've shared all this because Herbert W. Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God had a positive impact on my Christian journey for a season. Later, I learned more about British-Israelism, New Galatianism, and the questionable interpretation of who would hold offices in the coming Kingdom - such as David, Joseph, and Daniel. I hesitated to call the church a cult and I felt pained by the term, "Armstrongism." Yet I'd reached a point where I couldn't - or wouldn't - maintain my affiliation. Today, I thank God for that season when I was on fire and for all that I learned and am challenged to continue practicing. I believe now that Mr. Armstrong was in error on many points and from the drawing I felt, I can see the previous WCOG was a cult. Hate to say that. I am glad Mr. Armstrong's successors have returned to the Word and the leadership of the Holy Spirit to make reforms. I had to search a bit to find that the former Worldwide Church of God has transitioned to Grace Communion International. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing your experiences! If you want to see a video more about what the WCG used to look like, watch my video on the United Church of God. It will still mostly look like the WCG you remember.
Coming from a non religious family l have to admit that bizarre events have happened the Bible appears to contradict itself and in the past l was in serious trouble and asked God for protection and he did protect me. I'm just baffled by past events.
This true church of God changed because when Mr. Armstrong died they rebelled against God and Satan became their father. These baptized ex members are screwed unless they turn to God and repent.
I know it would be a little different from your regular videos, but I'd love to see a dedicated video on the topic of foot washing. It was a practice I was personally unaware of prior to discovering your channel, and it seems to pop up in interesting places as the sort of "optional" third ordinance in every group that recognizes it. It would be very helpful to have a concise summary of its history as a sacrament and different groups' views on it.
*FOOT WASHING Another SDA and HEAtradition and doctrine of men goes down the drain* ONLY 1 PERSON WASHED FEET THE NIGHT OF THE PASSOVER. THE APOSTLES DID *NOT* WASH FEET! John 13 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. 2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the *heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;* 3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; 4 *He riseth from supper,* and laid aside *his* garments; *and took a towel, and girded himself.* 5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. *(it doesn't say the Apostles washed anyone's feet! Only Christ washed the feet of the disciples, NONE of the Apostles girded himself and washed feet.)* No one washed Christ's feet at al that night. Christ commanded them to wash the feet of their disciples, like He washed the feet of *his disciples" Adventist has totally misunderstood the entire act. From 6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? 7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. 8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. 10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. 11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean. 12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? 13 *Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. 14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. 15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. 16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. 17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them. *The entire point being made here, is that the MINISTERS should wash the feet of their disciples* not that 100's or thousands should get out a bucket and wash one each other's feet!* And, certainly NOT that the disciples were to was the feet of the MINISTER! The SDA can't get the simplest thing correct! The point of Christ story is that Christ, who is Lord and Master washed the feet of the disciples. So, should those who are ministers, pastors, priests, BISHOPS AND POPE should wash the feet of their followers. It wasn't that thousands of buckets of water should be used to have everyone wash feet. It was that the LEADERS should was feet, NOT THE DISCIPLES.
Good idea, one vote from me too! Just done a sermon on the foot washing passage and I can see why people might think it's something to implement (although I do disagree)
We keep the footwashing ordinance. The traditions that were handed down were, The new passover, which included foot washing, Baptism. The Sabbath wasnt new of course, and was still kept by the early Christians.
I really appreciate their willingness to recognize that different interpretations of the same passage of scripture are possible by equally faithful and educated believers. What matters most is having your heart and your faith in the right place.
The changes were intolerant and authoritarian. This was a crime committed against tens of thousands who did not want to switch to evangelical protestantism from the church they built for decades. It was a hostile takeover by an imperialistic religious tradition. The changes should not be celebrated. If you believe differently, don't go infiltrating other churches and forcing them to change. Just go to a church that supports what you believe. What happened to the WCG was a travesty to anyone who values freedom of religion. There were countless extant churches that taught the "new teachings" that the new leadership and members who no longer believed could have gone to. The arrogance of hijakcing a church that doesn't believe that and forcing everyone to change or leave is unchristian and ugly by any denomination's standards.
@@koppite9600people would probably come back if catholicism changed their errors and revert back to the 1st century church instead of being a puppet religion to the roman empire
@@koppite9600 because again the catholic church split from the first century church with constantine. There is no scriptural evidence of popes and cardinals. Even if the scripture about peter being the rock is true then why wouldnt the bible say anything about popes and how to get a successor after peter. The bible does clearly say about choosing bishops and deacons. Fun fact until proabably the end of the dark ages the roman emperors were the main ones who chose the pope.
Been there for 40 years and suffered a long time on the road to salvation. Now I live by the following - grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Jesus is my Lord and savior.
@@mer9388 the Book of James says faith without works is dead. I guess you have forgotten that. If our belief is contrary to what the scriptures say then we are in a form of deception.
Back in the 60s I remember being very impressed by some of the literature put out by Armstrong. But being a teenager I didn’t fully read or understand or subscribe to it snd certainly didn’t understand there was controversy. But as I hear your explanation of their current beliefs I find myself identifying with a kind of evolution in my spiritual walk. As I get older I appreciate so much that I didn’t know in my younger years.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
I came out of being heavily influenced by these teachings. It's heartening that others have been on the same journey, and are humble enough to admit it openly.
My mother had me baptized Catholic but left the Church to join World Wide Church of God when I was about a year old. Raised me in it until I was 13 years old. There were kind hearted, genuine people there, and she did what she thought was right, but it was not spiritually nourishing at best and traumatic at worst (please don't deny small children food and water all day). I don't dwell on it but I wish I was raised in the Church.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
@@morrigan0103 I don't know that I need to convert, since I was baptized. However, I have not asked a Catholic priest. I'm currently attending an Anglican church and was informed by the priest there that I am Christian through baptism.
@@AshTreeConsecrated Since you were baptized you're already Catholic, so you wouldn't do the usual RCIA but there are similar programs for adults who never received the sacraments of communion and confirmation. If you find a Catholic parish you want to join just speak with the priest about those programs. Like RCIA they tend to try and confirm/complete at the Easter vigil. FWIW the Catholic church also recognizes baptisms done by other denominations as having made you christian
Great video! I grew up in the WCG & attended their Ambassador College for a few semesters - until I found out it was unaccredited. Anyway, I stopped attending that church as a teen, but the splintering had my family in turmoil & in separate offshoots. I do feel the WCG focused too much on prophecy. I am impressed with the GCI website! They have many articles that explain their beliefs very thoroughly.
You do know GCI now keeps the pagan doctrines of men including Christmas Easter and Sunday worship... Do you believe God is pleased with this? Prayerfully Study your Bible and to see why Christ needs to return...He's coming to smash the idol worship of the pagan cults...
They just dropped everything they ever believed in, and real believers left to form other split off groups that still believe the same Armstrong teachings.
I left WCG in 1996. This is the best, most concise explanation of the doctrines I have ever heard, and I am more on the same page with you than I thought.
Like others, I came across the original sect in the 60s when here in the UK the spent heavily on programming on off-shore pop music radio stations and gave out very well produced books alongside their 'Plain Truth' magazine. At that time Garner Ted Armstrong (Herbert W's son) was the broadcaster. Fortunately, I was secure in my own evangelical faith and treated the material with curiosity, rather than acceptance. It is so good to hear this explanation of the transformation into a fellowship of mainstream beliefs. Thank you.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
I grew up in WCG. I used hear a lot about it being a cult and I used to believe that too. Until I met and become friends with someone who actually grew up in a cult and realized what a cult actually is. I think the idea of it being a cult is an unfair assessment and attempt at character assassination by other competitor evangelical denominations, rather than critiquing its doctrine. If it is a cult, then so is Roman Catholicism. The only "restrictions" I "suffered" was sabbath (not getting to socialize on Saturday) and otherwise keeping closer friendships with the church community rather than the wider society. Both of which are benign, and in the latter case somewhat beneficial.
I and my family also observe Gods ordained eternal Sabbath and Holy Days which will be kept in Christ's Kingdom as illustrated in Zechariah 14:16 and Hebrews 4...G.C.I under Tkach Jr and Greg Williams went back to the Stalks and Stones of Paganism found nowhere in the Bible...Christ will return to demolish the pagan doctrines of men... period... Effeminate men like this can disparage all they want... The Bible is the word of God... Have a great day!
In the early 1970's I joined the WCG as a former Catholic. Within 5-6 years I learned that something was dreadfully wrong. HWA began declaring himself to be "God's Apostle for the end time" . As well, I had learned the habits of the WCG, in NOT actually keeping the Sabbath but pretending I did. We would often go out to eat after the Sabbath services where we would have others "serve" us who were laboring on the Sabbath to serve us, strictly forbidden by the 4th commandment. Then there was all the other things were supposed to do but didn't. It was all for show. The weight of hypocrisy starts to either harden your heart, or you become deeply disturbed in your conscience of all the façade until you can't take it anymore. All the tithes (2 or 3 of them) we were supposed to keep were financially draining to the point it became hopeless. Then comes the scripture which verifies all the suspicions that these men and their ministers and hustlers. It is one thing to sell broken used cars for a living as bad people will do, but entirely another to stoop so low as to abuse sacred scripture for one's own selfish ambitions. Once the person's eyes are open, they cannot bear the deception and they leave, or as in my case, I was "disfellowshipped" for being rebellious and not adhering to the Armstrong heretical theology. As soon as I openly questioned the ministry, they did to me, what they did to so many, *and like the Pharisees did to Christ and the Apostles, kicked me out from their synagogue* . Lesson learned. HWA in order to justify and strengthen his hold on the members of the WCG during the split between HWA and GTA, *Herbert became desperate and borrowed Catholic theology and taught that Peter was the "Chief Apostle" , so that no one could be greater than HWA* As a former Catholic, I become very interested in the study of the subject. In those days scholarly books were not easy to come by, so I saved to purchase many of the them. The most enlightening were the collection of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. One could not read nearly chapter of them without coming across the condemnation of the Judaizers as is the case of the New Testament. And, most of all, the authority of the Church presented and preserved by the unity of the "Catholic Church" , the immortality of the soul, the worship of Christ regularly on the first day of the week and the Eucharist. This is just a small sampling: The *CHURCH* of God which sojourns at *Smyrna* (Rev. 2) , to the *CHURCH* of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to ALL the congregations of *the Holy and CATHOLIC CHURCH* in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied. The Martyrdom of Polycarp (AD 117): Here's a direct quote "For, [Polycarp] having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, *he NOW, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and *the Shepherd of the *CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world* .[28] *(The placing of Polycarp's immortal soul in heaven after his martyrdom is exactly what we find in Revelation 18:20 with the Apostles and nall the righteous)* Notice how the author, says *Christ is the Shepherd of the Catholic Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD" In other words, the entire Christian world in 117 AD understood 2 things: 1.That Christ was the Shepherd of the Catholic Church and 2.The doctrine of the immortality of the soul and teaching of the righteous souls went to heaven after the death of the body was taught by Christ and the Church *throughout the whole world!*
You obviously had some leaders who exerted their dominance over the flock... That did happen but not everywhere. The Catholic denomination is simply a pagan cult along with the Protestant sect... Only those that follow Christ and live as He did will inherit the Kingdom... period...
@@loverslanenyc You are Pagan. The Protestants were the first to use *WOKE words as in our day.* Their use of the word "Reformation" is nothing more than a WOKE version of the word, *"Rebellion"* against authority and the falling away spoken of in 2Thess 2. I love how they try to *disguise rebellion* under such WOKE WORDS and portray it as a "Reformation" And, to make matters worse, they abuse the sacred scripture to justify themselves and hide their sin as Korah sinned against Moses. Out of the Protestant rebellion shall come the Anti-christ as already many, false prophets anti-christs have already come.
It's not really that interesting, considering the story of the Worldwide Church of God. The founder, who's doctrines were sound and valid, died in 1986. The back stabbing replacement immediately started moving doctrine to mainstream, as being offended that the church was reviled as a cult. The cult accusations were based on his opinions expressed in booklets and pamphlets published by the church. I thought the founder was the cult core, but never caught him in a lie, and was converted from casual Sunday Christian to fundamentalist scripture the authority Christian.
@drewrote More interesting and amazing how Satan moved on the church long before our generations, with conclusions, arrived at, and widely accepted, which are not easily dislodged. The doctrine of the trinity, Sunday keeping, the gospel being about Christ, instead of according to Christ. Interesting and amazing.
@@drewroteGod’s church! That was doing what God asks does a 180 - Nah, that wasn’t God! That was Satan - The Deceiver, the author of lies and Murderer from the beginning! Infiltrated his way and and deceived “THE” church! Scriptures says there’ll be a great falling away from God’s truth! That’s exactly what happened! 👍
@@eltonron1558 You are right Jesus and HIs apostles have been teaching about the persons of God, the Gospel about Jesus as God (according to Jesus), Jesus as the Sabbath from the very beginning until Satan was able to deceived members and divided the Church.
I had a friend in high school whose family were a part of this cult. My friend was blown away when confronted about the bad doctrine. She found Jesus in the 1990s. This is such an encouraging testimony. It gives me encouragement to pray for other pseudo Christian groups. I have friends who are LDS and JW.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
@@jakedubin8219They have officially repented of their pseudo-Christian doctrine. But I do not know anything beyond this. I do not know where they stand on secondary issues or what their services look like.
I am a Confessional Lutheran. Before that, I was in a good solid Baptist Church. I am kind of a denominational mutt. I was raised non-denominational Charismatic. My Paternal grandparents were Methodist. My Maternal grandparents were Church of Christ. My advice is to avoid Megachurches & Celebrity pastors. I have seen good churches in all of these denominations & bad churches in each of these denominations. It's a challenge to find a conservative church that still avoids fundamentalism. @@jakedubin8219
I grew up in UCG, a branch of Armstrong’s Worldwide. Then you have LCG, another branch of Armstrong’s Worldwide. As I was growing up, there was division within UCG - resulting in CoGWA, making that three Armstrong branches that I’m aware of. (I remember my grandmother recalling and lamenting the original split that led to Grace Communion International.) Last I checked, these branches are thriving. You may even know some of the people without realizing their background. Typically, they don’t announce the specifics of their faith, except when questioned about taking time off work for the feast and holy days, or as to why they don’t celebrate Christmas. And when they do give an answer, people usually get bored and change the subject. (I know from experience as well.) Suffice it to say, Grace Communion International is just one group. It’s not that Armstrong’s denomination died upon the original split; it just splintered into even more groups.
@@lealex1165 the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
In the early 1970's I joined the WCG as a former Catholic. Within 5-6 years I learned that something was dreadfully wrong. HWA began declaring himself to be "God's Apostle for the end time" . As well, I had learned the habits of the WCG, in NOT actually keeping the Sabbath but pretending I did. We would often go out to eat after the Sabbath services where we would have others "serve" us who were laboring on the Sabbath to serve us, strictly forbidden by the 4th commandment. Then there was all the other things were supposed to do but didn't. It was all for show. The weight of hypocrisy starts to either harden your heart, or you become deeply disturbed in your conscience of all the façade until you can't take it anymore. All the tithes (2 or 3 of them) we were supposed to keep were financially draining to the point it became hopeless. Then comes the scripture which verifies all the suspicions that these men and their ministers and hustlers. It is one thing to sell broken used cars for a living as bad people will do, but entirely another to stoop so low as to abuse sacred scripture for one's own selfish ambitions. Once the person's eyes are open, they cannot bear the deception and they leave, or as in my case, I was "disfellowshipped" for being rebellious and not adhering to the Armstrong heretical theology. As soon as I openly questioned the ministry, they did to me, what they did to so many, *and like the Pharisees did to Christ and the Apostles, kicked me out from their synagogue* . Lesson learned. HWA in order to justify and strengthen his hold on the members of the WCG during the split between HWA and GTA, *Herbert became desperate and borrowed Catholic theology and taught that Peter was the "Chief Apostle" , so that no one could be greater than HWA* As a former Catholic, I become very interested in the study of the subject. In those days scholarly books were not easy to come by, so I saved to purchase many of the them. The most enlightening were the collection of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. One could not read nearly chapter of them without coming across the condemnation of the Judaizers as is the case of the New Testament. And, most of all, the authority of the Church presented and preserved by the unity of the "Catholic Church" , the immortality of the soul, the worship of Christ regularly on the first day of the week and the Eucharist. This is just a small sampling: The *CHURCH* of God which sojourns at *Smyrna* (Rev. 2) , to the *CHURCH* of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to ALL the congregations of *the Holy and CATHOLIC CHURCH* in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied. The Martyrdom of Polycarp (AD 117): Here's a direct quote
For, [Polycarp] having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, *he NOW, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and *the Shepherd of the *CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world* .[28] *(The placing of Polycarp's immortal soul in heaven after his martyrdom is exactly what we find in Revelation 18:20 with the Apostles and all the righteous)* Notice how the author, says *Christ is the Shepherd of the Catholic Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD" In other words, the entire Christian world in 117 AD understood 2 things: 1.That Christ was the Shepherd of the Catholic Church and 2.The doctrine of the immortality of the soul and teaching of the righteous souls went to heaven after the death of the body was taught by Christ and the Church *throughout the whole world!* >
@@zekdom I returned to the Catholic Church after showing how incredibly wrong were the Adventist's, the Armstrong's and the Protestants. Notice the quote below from 117AD. The *CHURCH* of God which sojourns at *Smyrna* (Rev. 2) , to the *CHURCH* of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to ALL the congregations of *the Holy and CATHOLIC CHURCH* in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied. The Martyrdom of Polycarp (AD 117): Here's a direct quote: For, [Polycarp] having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, *he NOW, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and *the Shepherd of the *CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world* .[28] *(The placing of Polycarp's immortal soul in heaven after his martyrdom is exactly what we find in Revelation 18:20 with the Apostles and nall the righteous)* Notice how the author, says *Christ is the Shepherd of the Catholic Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD" In other words, the entire Christian world in 117 AD understood 2 things: 1.That Christ was the Shepherd of the Catholic Church and 2.The doctrine of the immortality of the soul and teaching of the righteous souls went to heaven after the death of the body was taught by Christ and the Church *throughout the whole world!* Another Adventist heresy on soul sleep and annihilationism bites the dust. If Mary named Yahshua (Jesus), the *proper* name: *"Rock"* , Christ's name would have been *"Cephas"* (John 1:42, 1Cor. 1:12, 3:22, 9:5, Gal. 2:9) in the Aramaic and *"Petros"* in the Greek, and "Peter" in the Greek to English. There is only ONE way to Say the *proper* name ROCK and that is CEPHAS in the Aramaic and PETROS in the Greek. If Mary had named Christ "Rock" we would all be calling Christ *"Cephas or Peter"*
I know them from their 'Wordwide Church of God' time ruled unter Herbert W. Armstrong and the period after. They sent me lots of their magazines but they hardly had any churches in Germany to meet with. Do they still keep the sabbath? The bible clearly speaks of the sabbath as the 7.th day that should be hold holy cause God rested on that day after creating the world.
It would be interesting to have you do a deep dive into the Russian/Greek Orthodox Church concept of **'theosis'** in light of the comments made in your video at 3:25...
*DID YOU KNOW* If Mary named Yahshua (Jesus), the *proper* name: *"Rock"* , Christ's name would have been *"Cephas"* (John 1:42, 1Cor. 1:12, 3:22, 9:5, Gal. 2:9) in the Aramaic and *"Petros"* in the Greek, and "Peter" in the Greek to English. There is only ONE way to Say the *proper* name ROCK and that is CEPHAS in the Aramaic and PETROS in the Greek. If Mary had named Christ "Rock" we would all be calling Christ *"Cephas or Peter"*
in other videos you talk of schisms and how these were often imperceptible to the regular churchgoers. I can imagine what a shock this change was to the WWCOG when the new leader started these massive retractions of what made this church unique
GCI bears no resemblance to Worldwide. None. Particularly when it comes to doctrines, but that was always the point. Please, out of respect, HWA's name in no way should be affiliated with the changes (deception) in the church that came after his death.
Very strange to see a church admit that they were wrong for the first chunk of their existence. I couldn't imagine any other church doing that without collapsing to pieces.
Jehovah's Wittnesses did something kind of similar. To begin with we elebrated Christmas and Easter in the normal calculation. We also used to use the crucifix. Taze Russel also had some weird ideas about the prophetic importance of the great pyramid of Giza, which I think was kind of a fad back then, though I don't know how widespread that was. Though those changes were nothing compared to what these Armstrongists did.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
Well, to be fair... I think it could be said that for the 70-80 % of people who split away from this group upon their massive theological revision, THEIR notion of this church clearly DID "collapse to pieces".
With the disclaimer that I'm Catholic, I should say that I've had a co-worker for 20 years who was raised in the Worldwide Church of God and in many conversations over the years my impression is of a devout Christian, extremely well-versed in the Bible, who follows certain Jewish practices such as food restrictions and holy days. The main distinction I feel is that my church emphasises the Gospels and Paul, while hers emphasises the Old Testament and Revelation. To me the main oddity is their narrative about the Lost Tribes of Israel, which to me, as a person with an interest in historical linguistics, the Human Genome diversity project, and anthropology, appears to fly in the face of everything known about the dispersal of peoples.
I remember Herbert W. Armstrong having a television show on Sunday mornings. I never watched it but once. I remember him naming a bunch of denominations and religious and asking what happened to truth. Apparently he was the only person ever to understand the truth!
@@nathaniellowry3861no Mr Armstrong made it up. He was a false teacher and “apostle”. The Word is clear about what an Apostle or Prophet (both of which he proclaimed he was over the years). He waffled on eschatology, “the beast”, the elect, works, race, and on and on and on. I was raised in it, was baptized in it, took all the old membership courses from when my parents joined in 1964. Nothing he “revealed” is scripturally or historically accurate. If you want to go back to the Radio Church of God days Mr Armstrong told us the eastern European nations were the Beast of the book Revelation and said “If Christ doesn’t return within the decade the Bible is a lie!!!” in the booming voice of his. Then it was “the European Union”, and if he were alive today he’d probably falsely claim it is Islam. I know you want to be a part of “the one true Church” and be a part of that Millennial ruling class he espoused, just as we all did, but we will NOT be “as God is”. There is only one God. There was none before and there will be none after.
If you would really like a completely honest and middle-of-the-road opinion about the beliefs and structure of the worldwide Church of God before 1986, I would be willing to share everything I know, which is quite a bit. I was a member of wcg for 22 years, attended ambassador college for 4 years and was a song leader and speaker in church. There is quite a bit of misinformation out there about wcg under Herbert Armstrong and I would be pleased to straighten some of these things out. For example: self-appointed "Cult Watchers" have claimed that HWA taught you could be saved by keeping the Commandments and The Seventh-Day Sabbath. That statement was totally misleading and incorrect. I heard Mr Armstrong preach in person close to 50 times and had dinner in his home. I believe I can give you an accurate picture of the Worldwide Church of God during those years.
@@donwelsh6164how can I be of assistance. I believe I can give you a pretty balanced view of church history and what happened after the breakup of the church.
The new people that hijacked the church only give their side of the story: here's another side no one wants to talk about...of all the people who lost their jobs and their homes who worked for the college and the church in Pasadena. We were the second largest employer in the City of Pasadena and there was at least one Minister who committed suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. A family member lost his job in Pasadena because of all the tremendous budgetary cutbacks and they lost their home which was foreclosed on and many other people lost their jobs and their homes and their income. They gave preferential treatment towards those who embraced the new teachings. Several hundred people's lives were ruined because of these decisions. They could have easily taken 50% of the church income and assets and gone off and started their own church, but they chose not to do that. That really does not sound like Christian Behavior to any open-minded person?
Joshua, I wasn't aware you created this video. It is very good. I am a former member of Worldwide Church of God. I left Worldwide Church of God about five years after the church changes for unrelated reasons. I am now a Particular Baptist. Obviously I disagree with GCI's disdain for Calvinism/Reformed theology. I would also have issues with ordained women leadership. I wouldn't be comfortable with open theism and the possibility of universalism either. If I understand correctly, church leadership was mentored by Fuller Theological Seminary staff and that led to acceptance of some unorthodox positions. They hold a position called "Trinitarian Theology" related to the teachings of Thomas Torrance and Karl Barth. This theology involves more than simple acceptance of the Trinity (I am a Trinitarian) but somehow affects their view of possible universalism. Anyways, my suspicion is that their theology emerging from the church changes was misguided by association with Fuller Theological seminary staff. Fuller is well known for liberal theology.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
Most of the GCI congregations in the United States are house churches. 75% of the people who attended WCG when the changes happened left not 50%. Some who were there at the time said that Joseph Tkach senior was not appointed by Herbert Armstrong to succeed him before he died. This is a case where this channel needed to go beyond what GCI says about themselves. That is a weakness in this channel not investigating a church beyond what they say about themselves. Love this channel keep it going. Over all good channel. The above is from more than one person who was there at the time. One of them I know. Don't ask me for sources. Please investigate for yourself.
In 1986, HW Armstrong announced his selection of Joseph W. Tkach to the denomination and gave his reasons for his appointment. He may not have anointed him personally but the appointment and announcement was heard and relayed by the ministry throughout the denomination without any dissent. This is not based on what GCI says about itself but from my own experience and the evidence of my senses.
What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. New Covenant Whole Gospel: Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Watch the RUclips videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
Yes. The Plain Truth was the magazine put out by the Worldwide Church of God. Herbert Armstrong was the founder and Garner Ted was his son. They had a falling out in the 70s though and Garner Ted went on to form his own breakaway church.
@@UsefulCharts I guess you and Joshua are in collaboration and that is all good. I have to acknowledge that THe Plain Truth entered this Catholic family around 69-70 and was a presence in the bathroom reading stack til I left for West Point. It had an effect, especially since it was glossy in its day. As a revert in 1998 I have wondered as to how it showed seeds of doubt that might have contributed to my near 22 year estrangement from the Faith. Thank you for your expert, impartial analysis. Tell Joshua to drop me a line...what I have to offer (free of charge) may surprise him. Tell him that his analysis of degrees of separation from the RCC and the Pope Francis pop ups got me chuckling.
The Cult still exists. Those who have come to Christ have abandoned the “prophetic” teachings of HWA. The cults that have off shot still preach the same doctrines as “the one true church”.
Cult? Catholic or Protestant? Where does God command Christmas in the Bible? Jer 10? How about Sunday worship? Paul kept the 7th Day Sabbath 20 years after Christ's Resurrection...Open your Bible and educate yourself...
Once I saw Herbert W. Armstrong's picture, I knew exactly what this was. From my neck of the woods in East Texas. Then his son took over, then another break-away. Ugh. Another classic personality-driven church business dynasty. "Lord, don't ever let me join a church named after a man...". 🦊
@@specialteams28 Henry VIII shook up a church that had been in England for a long time before he (and Saint Augustine) came along. Other than episcopal oversight and iconoclasm, it is still the Church in England, and does not bear his name nor his particular beliefs.
@@specialteams28 They were all founded by mankind, whatever they may claim. Everything is a mere remnant of first century churches and all have evolved widely and wildly.
It is a amazing that all of us churches work and pray separately, perhaps we should make more efforts to work together in at least some area of Outreach and service. Catholic here…😊
A video idea I'd love to see is comparing denominations which use non-standard canons. Whether its different inclusions in just some books, or whole new additions like the Mormons, or even more out-there groups, it would be interesting. I don't know much about it so maybe that's a difficult request.
I grew up in WWCG & I'm still a Sabbatarian with Messianic leanings. But I have very mixed thoughts about those old days & old ways. There was so much good & so much bad, all mixed together. It's not fair to completely hate on it nor it is fair to turn a blind eye to the bad.
H.W.A was The End Time Elijah who Restored All Things(Matt.17:10). He took The True Gospel to All nations( Matt.24:14). A truly remarkable man who achieved more with God than almost Anyone Ever!
I don't agree with what you're saying, he actually taught a lot of heresies He claimed to be a prophet, and his followers believed Armstrong that he was an end time prophet ,what does the Bible tell us about who a prophet is. A prophet does not come up with his own ideas but reveals the truth by scripture God spoke to the prophets in the Old testament and they told the people what God had said to them God does not lie or mislead, makes false accusations If what a prophet says does not come true that means it was not from God You're saying that Armstrong achieve more than anyone did he achieve more than the old prophets like Elijah? You can in no way compare him to Elijah or any of the other prophets, I would call Armstrong a false prophet When someone claims to have all the answers and knows the only truth and no one else knows the truth but him, that actually sounds to me like a leader of a cult, why would God keep the truth from people trying to follow him for so many centuries Why would God choose to reveal the truth to this man in the 1930's and keep the whole of mankind in darkness for so many centuries I won't go into too many details but a lot of his beliefs of contrary to what scripture says Armstrong's belief was that when we become children of God and enter into his family we become like gods putting ourselves equal to God, there is so many problems with this type of thinking, there are so many scriptures that would contradict his statement Even the Jewish people who follow Judaism, where the foundation of the Christian faith evolved from ,the Lord Jesus Christ was a Jew Himself ,and even the Jews would not even saw the name of God,incase they took his name in vain, forbidding to even think of putting themselves as the same level and deity of God Armstrong has been shredded with controversy and beliefs that we're so unorthodox, even contradicting his own beliefs at times, he was a firm believer that is followers should not seek medical attention, that they should believe in divine healing, yet😅 in times when he was close to death he sought out medical intervention to save his life That's possibly why so many split from the original church forming their own sects, taking with them some of his beliefs Like the united church of God who split from the worldwide church of God but still practice some of his beliefs I think it's very dangerous when we listen to, believe people who claimed to have secret knowledge that was only revealed to them Ellen G White, along with her husband James White and Joseph Bates, founders of the seventh-day Adventist church , she also made claims to have revelations and prophecies revealed to her by God, that we're not true She and her family attended Adventist meetings and we're followers of William Miller, who prophesied that Chist would return on October 22nd 1844, later she went on to establish the seventh-day Adventist movement with the other two mentioned. The idea of introducing the Sabbath into Christian worship from a seventh day Adventist perspectivestarted with Joseph Bates , she later had a vision with a Halo surrounding the fourth commandment, which in her mind convinced her that Joseph Bates was correct She also had a view that we will not suffer eternal punishment but the dead go into a sleep until the second coming, she came by this belief because she could not be convinced that I loving and kind God would keep people in eternal wrath I find it interesting that these two views of the Sabbath keeping and also not being in eternal punishment are held by both denominations The Bible clearly states that we are eternal beings, either spending eternity with Him or in a place that is described as fiery torment or outer darkness Is also clear that we do not sleep when we're dead, does not the rich man see the beggar call Lazarus who used to be in front of his house with Moses and ask the beggar to quench his tongue with a drop of water And in the new testament Paul tells us not to question others on what days they keep as far as festivals or days of worship the main thing is that we see Christ our saviour, He is our Sabbath rest, we find peace and rest in Jesus, Jesus said Come to me all who are heavy laden and burdened and I will give you rest
A deceived person does not know he is deceived. It is the same with a church. Time will tell who currently is and is not deceived about the truths of the Bible.
@jakedubin8219 I studied all of his work thoroughly. He made some egregious mistakes. However a lot of his work is sound Doctrine. I'm in the process of writing Karma proving Herbert Armstrong was not the Elijah to come has many thousands of people believe. When Elijah does come you will undoubtedly bring new truth as well as correct all the theological problems putting the ministry in their place in the process.
For me this is one of the most interesting videos that you've done so far on your channel. Back in the 1980's I used to watch some of the programs and read some of the material from the Worldwide Church of God. I liked that they seemed very studious and serious about reading the bible and applying it to our daily lives - and yet they ended up with some doctrines which I just could not find any biblical basis for. I found this very frustrating! I stopped paying attention to them. It looks like they've moved far away from the doctrines which seemed extremely non-biblical to me.
demanding 30% of your wages is extortion , not tithing. These very wicked men knew exactly what they were doing. Even the devil quotes scripture and twists it to suit his ends.
@@BertGraef - You may notice that I said nothing about praising them. My observation was just that they've changed quite a bit in the last three decades.
Depending on what history one listens to Herbert W. was dis-fellowshipped or left COG7-day. He had some teaching correct but others were seriously wrong. I have heard many sects claim to be the "true church" like Roman Catholic, Church of Christ, or IFB-baptist. So I have an overall problem with any group making the one true church claim. He however was correct in observing The feast of Yah. His, and many Sunday keeping churches that have a concept of the great pastor, pope, or leader are all cultish. People need to understand that following a man is prone to serious error. This goes for Rabbinical Judaism too. We should only follow the Messiah, 1 Cor. 11:1.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
My Mom, Grandma and Uncle were involved in this when I was a child. My Dad would have nothing to do with them and subsequently I was half way raised normal. They loved too prophecy and of course the prophecy was terrifying to a kid. I am 65 years old and l think I am still affected by what I heard. In my opinion they were nuts and possibly evil.
@@ReadyToHarvest I was a member of Worldwide church for 9 years until '93. The post-'95 leaders who changed most of the doctrines were so wrong! WCG was a mixture of good and bad for decades but most of what it taught was biblical IMHO!! I believe there is no purpose for GCI's existence today!
GTA was a womanizer . And demanding 30% of your income is extortion, not tithing. HWA and GTA fleeced the poor of their church, instead of helping them.
What other denomination would they be closest to doctrinally now? It's good they persisted to make a point about rejecting Armstrongism, but I wonder what's distinctive enough to justify a separate movement.
@@rexjamerson9316 I meant what denomination would Grace Communion international be most similar to. PCG and RCG both claim to be faithful to Armstrong's doctrine.
I was a member of WCG.When I understood our doctrins were cultish, I rejoiced in the new revelation.Now the leadership is over compensating and starting to accept evolution ect.Please, you are Saved by Grace through Faith, and that not of yourself,it is a gift of GOD.Seek the Holy Spirit without which you are not a christian and would not correctly understand Scriptures.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
Great example of a denomination that should have just dissipated and absorbed into other denominations. Why would someone who believes these things want to be part of a denomination founded by someone who believed the opposite?
Revelation 12:17 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Two problems with this church in my experience: first, evangelicalism is not much of an improvement, and second, the members seem stuck on beating the dead horse of debunking Armstrongism, rather than moving on.
Wow. It is rather discouraging to see a former cult embrace much of what historical Protestantism believes and yet stumble badly on the question of origins. Contrary to whatever Mr. Morrison may write, young-earth creationism is neither an "extreme position" nor one possessing the "least evidence." Concordism (i.e., the various attempts made to reconcile deep time and evolution with the biblical account) is a relatively recent invention; throughout most of church history, Genesis 1-3 has been understood (rightly, in my view) as a historical narrative, since that is the plain reading of the text, and it is not written in the Hebrew conventions used for either poetry or allegory. Moreover, creationists have exactly the same amount of evidence as scientific naturalists; in fact, neither side can lay exclusive claim to any form of evidence -- both camps examine the same fossils, DNA sequences, anatomical structures, and other forms of evidence. Where we differ is in the interpretation of that evidence. Mr. Morrison's summation of the creationist position is exactly the sort of smear one expects to see from someone who most likely has never made any serious effort to grapple with the mountains of sound science done by young earth creationists and instead chooses to attack much less troublesome straw men.
I was young, dumb and awestruck by GTA. Little did I know how corrupt their "prophetic " system was. Glorifying antichristian zionists, extorting 30% from thier members, jetting all over the world to give gifts to politicians, claiming armageddon was around the corner. They lived on fear and greed and ignorance. How much of their own hubris they actually beleived , no one will ever know. But the cash rolling into that tax exempt organization was enormous.
You were in the one true church. Repent now and pray so you will have the courage to get your head lopped off in the tribulation. If you’ve been baptized in the world wide church of God then your only hope is through trial by fire. You will have to become a martyr. Stop spreading hate about Mr. Armstrong.
Armstrong made may mistakes as with many of his followers but this is what happens with man’s teach of the scriptures I believe the bible word for word God made. The world and the creation of life in six actual days
The name of Armstrong sounds familiar but it’s been a few decades since I last heard it; and at that time, it was a televangelist who taught that the ‘mark of the beast’ spoken of in the book of Revelation is manifest in today’s world as money. It’s entirely possible that I’ve confused the Armstrong of this video with the Armstrong of my past; but either way, with the eminent reality of dedollarization and the move of central banks to the use of programmable CBDCs, it would appear that a cashless society is a near horizon eventuality and fits rather squarely into the prophecy that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark.. (Revelation 13:17 KJV)
I listened on the Radio to every program. Read Plain Truth ea page. Read all the booklets. I found it interesting he sooo much respect from world leaders.
Well, I used to read some of the publications, and The World Tomorrow always had photos of HWA posing with world leaders. That doesn't mean they thought much of him and his church. They certainly must have enjoyed the Steuben Glass gifts that he gave them. The bills for those must have been enormous.
Just another man made "church". Jesus created One Church in Matt 16:18, the pillar and foundation of truth, 1 Tim 3:15, and the Final Authority, Matt 18:15-17. In 107AD, St Ignatius of Antioch, a Bishop in the Church Jesus created, wrote a letter calling his Church "Catholic" or Universal. All Protestant Churches came along after 1517 and are all man, or woman made. The end.
You do amazingly thorough research--that's the way it appears to me though I don't speak professionally. I don't know if you have an affiliation but I'd think it difficult when the scope of your videos shows how denominational churches are so like corporations with very little service function and so many organizational flaws. I'd doubt a creator of the universe would have anything to do with any of them. This denomination is so unusual in that it admits it's made mistakes.
Thanks! I specifically wanted to get this channel's take on the Worldwide Church of God as I believe you provide the most thorough and unbiased exposition of denominations and cults.
In the late 1970s and early 80s, I was taken with the nightly radio broadcasts of Herbert W. Armstrong - "The World Tomorrow." I was challenged by Armstrong to read the Bible on my own - " prove all things" - and I pondered his position on many points - such as the Gospel message stressing the coming earthly government - the Kingdom of God.
I listened read, strove to live in accordance with the understanding I was gaining, requested literature, and even shared this doctrine with at least one coworker - who I hope was not misled.
I even enrolled in the Ambassador College correspondence course - but didn't progress very far because I became troubled about some aspects of the message coming across.
One broadcast, I thought I heard Mr. Armstrong say that many believers respond to the wrong appeal, "Come to Jesus! Come to Jesus!" I wasn't a big, "Jesus," guy - associating the calling of his Name with little, old, emotional church ladies. Yet, something clicked within me - I guess I was humbled - and I felt a surge of conviction that as simplistic as it sounded, we were supposed to, "Come to Jesus": there is salvation in none other.
I became disenchanted. Also, getting deeper into the teachings of the church, I felt like they were trying to draw me away from the congregation I was with. The Baptist church I was attending had a relatively new and young pastor who I felt was making an honest effort to guide us the right way in the Word and in our application. It was the family church, but the older ministers had passed on and our current minister was teaching Bible study and encouraging us to, "quit playing church!"
So, I began drifting away from the teachings of Armstrong and determined to continue tithing to my current congregation. Adverse events occurred in my life - some I brought on myself, others I mishandled - and eventually, I drifted away from my home church as well.
I've shared all this because Herbert W. Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God had a positive impact on my Christian journey for a season. Later, I learned more about British-Israelism, New Galatianism, and the questionable interpretation of who would hold offices in the coming Kingdom - such as David, Joseph, and Daniel. I hesitated to call the church a cult and I felt pained by the term, "Armstrongism." Yet I'd reached a point where I couldn't - or wouldn't - maintain my affiliation.
Today, I thank God for that season when I was on fire and for all that I learned and am challenged to continue practicing. I believe now that Mr. Armstrong was in error on many points and from the drawing I felt, I can see the previous WCOG was a cult. Hate to say that. I am glad Mr. Armstrong's successors have returned to the Word and the leadership of the Holy Spirit to make reforms. I had to search a bit to find that the former Worldwide Church of God has transitioned to Grace Communion International. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing your experiences! If you want to see a video more about what the WCG used to look like, watch my video on the United Church of God. It will still mostly look like the WCG you remember.
It's amazing how much a denomination can change over time.
This might be the most drastic/fastest change I've ever heard of.
@@iamdigory It's all about learning to be honest, rather than defending the indefensible.
Coming from a non religious family l have to admit that bizarre events have happened the Bible appears to contradict itself and in the past l was in serious trouble and asked God for protection and he did protect me. I'm just baffled by past events.
This true church of God changed because when Mr. Armstrong died they rebelled against God and Satan became their father. These baptized ex members are screwed unless they turn to God and repent.
Ditto for your own church.
I know it would be a little different from your regular videos, but I'd love to see a dedicated video on the topic of foot washing. It was a practice I was personally unaware of prior to discovering your channel, and it seems to pop up in interesting places as the sort of "optional" third ordinance in every group that recognizes it. It would be very helpful to have a concise summary of its history as a sacrament and different groups' views on it.
*FOOT WASHING Another SDA and HEAtradition and doctrine of men goes down the drain* ONLY 1 PERSON WASHED FEET THE NIGHT OF THE PASSOVER. THE APOSTLES DID *NOT* WASH FEET!
John 13 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the *heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;*
3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
4 *He riseth from supper,* and laid aside *his* garments; *and took a towel, and girded himself.*
5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. *(it doesn't say the Apostles washed anyone's feet! Only Christ washed the feet of the disciples, NONE of the Apostles girded himself and washed feet.)*
No one washed Christ's feet at al that night.
Christ commanded them to wash the feet of their disciples, like He washed the feet of *his disciples" Adventist has totally misunderstood the entire act.
From
6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
13 *Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
*The entire point being made here, is that the MINISTERS should wash the feet of their disciples* not that 100's or thousands should get out a bucket and wash one each other's feet!* And, certainly NOT that the disciples were to was the feet of the MINISTER!
The SDA can't get the simplest thing correct!
The point of Christ story is that Christ, who is Lord and Master washed the feet of the disciples. So, should those who are ministers, pastors, priests, BISHOPS AND POPE should wash the feet of their followers. It wasn't that thousands of buckets of water should be used to have everyone wash feet. It was that the LEADERS should was feet, NOT THE DISCIPLES.
Good idea, one vote from me too! Just done a sermon on the foot washing passage and I can see why people might think it's something to implement (although I do disagree)
As an Episcopal church our priest washes feet on the Thursday of Holy Week. It is deeply moving.
We keep the footwashing ordinance.
The traditions that were handed down were,
The new passover, which included foot washing,
Baptism.
The Sabbath wasnt new of course, and was still kept by the early Christians.
@@jnkelley42 Same with us Catholics, a Holy Thursday ritual.
I really appreciate their willingness to recognize that different interpretations of the same passage of scripture are possible by equally faithful and educated believers. What matters most is having your heart and your faith in the right place.
What matters is being Catholic. After you've admitted that then come back to the Church people left when they looked for a perfect church
The changes were intolerant and authoritarian. This was a crime committed against tens of thousands who did not want to switch to evangelical protestantism from the church they built for decades. It was a hostile takeover by an imperialistic religious tradition. The changes should not be celebrated. If you believe differently, don't go infiltrating other churches and forcing them to change. Just go to a church that supports what you believe. What happened to the WCG was a travesty to anyone who values freedom of religion. There were countless extant churches that taught the "new teachings" that the new leadership and members who no longer believed could have gone to. The arrogance of hijakcing a church that doesn't believe that and forcing everyone to change or leave is unchristian and ugly by any denomination's standards.
@@koppite9600people would probably come back if catholicism changed their errors and revert back to the 1st century church instead of being a puppet religion to the roman empire
@@tucktuckthetucker Jesus said the Church would persevere through the ages, how do you then say she has errors?
@@koppite9600 because again the catholic church split from the first century church with constantine. There is no scriptural evidence of popes and cardinals. Even if the scripture about peter being the rock is true then why wouldnt the bible say anything about popes and how to get a successor after peter. The bible does clearly say about choosing bishops and deacons. Fun fact until proabably the end of the dark ages the roman emperors were the main ones who chose the pope.
Been there for 40 years and suffered a long time on the road to salvation. Now I live by the following - grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Jesus is my Lord and savior.
Is GCI a good church?
Like most churches they get things right and sometimes wrong but they follow the bible as well as they can. It's a good church. @@jakedubin8219
@@mer9388 the Book of James says faith without works is dead. I guess you have forgotten that. If our belief is contrary to what the scriptures say then we are in a form of deception.
@@johnpeter1999 Only keeping my priorities straight. I agree a life without works as evidence of faith would be a problem.
Back in the 60s I remember being very impressed by some of the literature put out by Armstrong. But being a teenager I didn’t fully read or understand or subscribe to it snd certainly didn’t understand there was controversy. But as I hear your explanation of their current beliefs I find myself identifying with a kind of evolution in my spiritual walk. As I get older I appreciate so much that I didn’t know in my younger years.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
I came out of being heavily influenced by these teachings. It's heartening that others have been on the same journey, and are humble enough to admit it openly.
My mother had me baptized Catholic but left the Church to join World Wide Church of God when I was about a year old. Raised me in it until I was 13 years old. There were kind hearted, genuine people there, and she did what she thought was right, but it was not spiritually nourishing at best and traumatic at worst (please don't deny small children food and water all day). I don't dwell on it but I wish I was raised in the Church.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
Did you convert to Catholicism?
@@morrigan0103 I don't know that I need to convert, since I was baptized. However, I have not asked a Catholic priest. I'm currently attending an Anglican church and was informed by the priest there that I am Christian through baptism.
@@AshTreeConsecrated Since you were baptized you're already Catholic, so you wouldn't do the usual RCIA but there are similar programs for adults who never received the sacraments of communion and confirmation. If you find a Catholic parish you want to join just speak with the priest about those programs. Like RCIA they tend to try and confirm/complete at the Easter vigil. FWIW the Catholic church also recognizes baptisms done by other denominations as having made you christian
@@St0rmcrash Thank you so much for the information, it's very edifying. I hope to return home one day if God wills it. 🙏
Great video! I grew up in the WCG & attended their Ambassador College for a few semesters - until I found out it was unaccredited. Anyway, I stopped attending that church as a teen, but the splintering had my family in turmoil & in separate offshoots. I do feel the WCG focused too much on prophecy. I am impressed with the GCI website! They have many articles that explain their beliefs very thoroughly.
You do know GCI now keeps the pagan doctrines of men including Christmas Easter and Sunday worship... Do you believe God is pleased with this? Prayerfully Study your Bible and to see why Christ needs to return...He's coming to smash the idol worship of the pagan cults...
Well, this is encouraging that this cult recognized its vast number of errors and has begun following God in truth.
Amen
They just dropped everything they ever believed in, and real believers left to form other split off groups that still believe the same Armstrong teachings.
they still hold to countless errors
@@copeandseethe9279 May God guide them!
@@electrical_cord It is encouraging to see this. Usually they double down on their nonsense.
I lived through this change from WCG to GCI. And it wasn't easy and I'm still impacted by the effects today
In what way? Worshipping the pagan doctrines of men? Or Gods eternal Sabbath and Holy Days? 😊
Another really good and interesting video. You've been on a roll lately. Good job.
I left WCG in 1996. This is the best, most concise explanation of the doctrines I have ever heard, and I am more on the same page with you than I thought.
is WCG bad?
Did you go to another COG group?
Like others, I came across the original sect in the 60s when here in the UK the spent heavily on programming on off-shore pop music radio stations and gave out very well produced books alongside their 'Plain Truth' magazine. At that time Garner Ted Armstrong (Herbert W's son) was the broadcaster. Fortunately, I was secure in my own evangelical faith and treated the material with curiosity, rather than acceptance. It is so good to hear this explanation of the transformation into a fellowship of mainstream beliefs. Thank you.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
I grew up in WCG. I used hear a lot about it being a cult and I used to believe that too. Until I met and become friends with someone who actually grew up in a cult and realized what a cult actually is. I think the idea of it being a cult is an unfair assessment and attempt at character assassination by other competitor evangelical denominations, rather than critiquing its doctrine. If it is a cult, then so is Roman Catholicism. The only "restrictions" I "suffered" was sabbath (not getting to socialize on Saturday) and otherwise keeping closer friendships with the church community rather than the wider society. Both of which are benign, and in the latter case somewhat beneficial.
Do u still listen to HWA?
I and my family also observe Gods ordained eternal Sabbath and Holy Days which will be kept in Christ's Kingdom as illustrated in Zechariah 14:16 and Hebrews 4...G.C.I under Tkach Jr and Greg Williams went back to the Stalks and Stones of Paganism found nowhere in the Bible...Christ will return to demolish the pagan doctrines of men... period... Effeminate men like this can disparage all they want... The Bible is the word of God... Have a great day!
In the early 1970's I joined the WCG as a former Catholic. Within 5-6 years I learned that something was dreadfully wrong. HWA began declaring himself to be "God's Apostle for the end time" . As well, I had learned the habits of the WCG, in NOT actually keeping the Sabbath but pretending I did. We would often go out to eat after the Sabbath services where we would have others "serve" us who were laboring on the Sabbath to serve us, strictly forbidden by the 4th commandment. Then there was all the other things were supposed to do but didn't. It was all for show. The weight of hypocrisy starts to either harden your heart, or you become deeply disturbed in your conscience of all the façade until you can't take it anymore. All the tithes (2 or 3 of them) we were supposed to keep were financially draining to the point it became hopeless. Then comes the scripture which verifies all the suspicions that these men and their ministers and hustlers. It is one thing to sell broken used cars for a living as bad people will do, but entirely another to stoop so low as to abuse sacred scripture for one's own selfish ambitions. Once the person's eyes are open, they cannot bear the deception and they leave, or as in my case, I was "disfellowshipped" for being rebellious and not adhering to the Armstrong heretical theology. As soon as I openly questioned the ministry, they did to me, what they did to so many, *and like the Pharisees did to Christ and the Apostles, kicked me out from their synagogue* . Lesson learned.
HWA in order to justify and strengthen his hold on the members of the WCG during the split between HWA and GTA, *Herbert became desperate and borrowed Catholic theology and taught that Peter was the "Chief Apostle" , so that no one could be greater than HWA* As a former Catholic, I become very interested in the study of the subject. In those days scholarly books were not easy to come by, so I saved to purchase many of the them. The most enlightening were the collection of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. One could not read nearly chapter of them without coming across the condemnation of the Judaizers as is the case of the New Testament. And, most of all, the authority of the Church presented and preserved by the unity of the "Catholic Church" , the immortality of the soul, the worship of Christ regularly on the first day of the week and the Eucharist.
This is just a small sampling: The *CHURCH* of God which sojourns at *Smyrna* (Rev. 2) , to the *CHURCH* of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to ALL the congregations of *the Holy and CATHOLIC CHURCH* in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied.
The Martyrdom of Polycarp (AD 117): Here's a direct quote
"For, [Polycarp] having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, *he NOW, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and *the Shepherd of the *CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world* .[28] *(The placing of Polycarp's immortal soul in heaven after his martyrdom is exactly what we find in Revelation 18:20 with the Apostles and nall the righteous)*
Notice how the author, says *Christ is the Shepherd of the Catholic Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD" In other words, the entire Christian world in 117 AD understood 2 things:
1.That Christ was the Shepherd of the Catholic Church and
2.The doctrine of the immortality of the soul and teaching of the righteous souls went to heaven after the death of the body was taught by Christ and the Church *throughout the whole world!*
I believe Jesus established a Catholic Church. The present-day Roman catholic church however doesn't resemble the Church Jesus established.
You obviously had some leaders who exerted their dominance over the flock... That did happen but not everywhere. The Catholic denomination is simply a pagan cult along with the Protestant sect... Only those that follow Christ and live as He did will inherit the Kingdom... period...
@@loverslanenyc You are Pagan. The Protestants were the first to use *WOKE words as in our day.* Their use of the word "Reformation" is nothing more than a WOKE version of the word, *"Rebellion"* against authority and the falling away spoken of in 2Thess 2. I love how they try to *disguise rebellion* under such WOKE WORDS and portray it as a "Reformation" And, to make matters worse, they abuse the sacred scripture to justify themselves and hide their sin as Korah sinned against Moses. Out of the Protestant rebellion shall come the Anti-christ as already many, false prophets anti-christs have already come.
It's rather interesting how a denomination can do a complete 180 on their belief structure!
It's not really that interesting, considering the story of the Worldwide Church of God. The founder, who's doctrines were sound and valid, died in 1986. The back stabbing replacement immediately started moving doctrine to mainstream, as being offended that the church was reviled as a cult. The cult accusations were based on his opinions expressed in booklets and pamphlets published by the church. I thought the founder was the cult core, but never caught him in a lie, and was converted from casual Sunday Christian to fundamentalist scripture the authority Christian.
When God moves, it is always interesting and amazing
@drewrote More interesting and amazing how Satan moved on the church long before our generations, with conclusions, arrived at, and widely accepted, which are not easily dislodged.
The doctrine of the trinity, Sunday keeping, the gospel being about Christ, instead of according to Christ. Interesting and amazing.
@@drewroteGod’s church! That was doing what God asks does a 180 - Nah, that wasn’t God! That was Satan - The Deceiver, the author of lies and Murderer from the beginning! Infiltrated his way and and deceived “THE” church! Scriptures says there’ll be a great falling away from God’s truth! That’s exactly what happened! 👍
@@eltonron1558 You are right Jesus and HIs apostles have been teaching about the persons of God, the Gospel about Jesus as God (according to Jesus), Jesus as the Sabbath from the very beginning until Satan was able to deceived members and divided the Church.
I had a friend in high school whose family were a part of this cult. My friend was blown away when confronted about the bad doctrine. She found Jesus in the 1990s. This is such an encouraging testimony. It gives me encouragement to pray for other pseudo Christian groups. I have friends who are LDS and JW.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
Is GCI a good church?
@@jakedubin8219They have officially repented of their pseudo-Christian doctrine. But I do not know anything beyond this. I do not know where they stand on secondary issues or what their services look like.
@@derickrae what denomination would you reccomend?
I am a Confessional Lutheran. Before that, I was in a good solid Baptist Church. I am kind of a denominational mutt. I was raised non-denominational Charismatic. My Paternal grandparents were Methodist. My Maternal grandparents were Church of Christ.
My advice is to avoid Megachurches & Celebrity pastors. I have seen good churches in all of these denominations & bad churches in each of these denominations. It's a challenge to find a conservative church that still avoids fundamentalism. @@jakedubin8219
I believe in the word of God with all my heart
Fascinating how quickly and drastically these guys changed their doctrine. Thanks for the video, Joshua!
Without God's grace and leading, the changes wouldn't happen. God's grace all the way.
Born to WCG in the 80's. Experienced the changes as a teenager. Serving God through this denomination as an adult.
Is GCI a good church?
I grew up in UCG, a branch of Armstrong’s Worldwide. Then you have LCG, another branch of Armstrong’s Worldwide.
As I was growing up, there was division within UCG - resulting in CoGWA, making that three Armstrong branches that I’m aware of.
(I remember my grandmother recalling and lamenting the original split that led to Grace Communion International.)
Last I checked, these branches are thriving. You may even know some of the people without realizing their background.
Typically, they don’t announce the specifics of their faith, except when questioned about taking time off work for the feast and holy days, or as to why they don’t celebrate Christmas.
And when they do give an answer, people usually get bored and change the subject. (I know from experience as well.)
Suffice it to say, Grace Communion International is just one group. It’s not that Armstrong’s denomination died upon the original split; it just splintered into even more groups.
@@lealex1165 the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
In the early 1970's I joined the WCG as a former Catholic. Within 5-6 years I learned that something was dreadfully wrong. HWA began declaring himself to be "God's Apostle for the end time" . As well, I had learned the habits of the WCG, in NOT actually keeping the Sabbath but pretending I did. We would often go out to eat after the Sabbath services where we would have others "serve" us who were laboring on the Sabbath to serve us, strictly forbidden by the 4th commandment. Then there was all the other things were supposed to do but didn't. It was all for show. The weight of hypocrisy starts to either harden your heart, or you become deeply disturbed in your conscience of all the façade until you can't take it anymore. All the tithes (2 or 3 of them) we were supposed to keep were financially draining to the point it became hopeless. Then comes the scripture which verifies all the suspicions that these men and their ministers and hustlers. It is one thing to sell broken used cars for a living as bad people will do, but entirely another to stoop so low as to abuse sacred scripture for one's own selfish ambitions. Once the person's eyes are open, they cannot bear the deception and they leave, or as in my case, I was "disfellowshipped" for being rebellious and not adhering to the Armstrong heretical theology. As soon as I openly questioned the ministry, they did to me, what they did to so many, *and like the Pharisees did to Christ and the Apostles, kicked me out from their synagogue* . Lesson learned.
HWA in order to justify and strengthen his hold on the members of the WCG during the split between HWA and GTA, *Herbert became desperate and borrowed Catholic theology and taught that Peter was the "Chief Apostle" , so that no one could be greater than HWA* As a former Catholic, I become very interested in the study of the subject. In those days scholarly books were not easy to come by, so I saved to purchase many of the them. The most enlightening were the collection of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. One could not read nearly chapter of them without coming across the condemnation of the Judaizers as is the case of the New Testament. And, most of all, the authority of the Church presented and preserved by the unity of the "Catholic Church" , the immortality of the soul, the worship of Christ regularly on the first day of the week and the Eucharist.
This is just a small sampling:
The *CHURCH* of God which sojourns at *Smyrna* (Rev. 2) , to the *CHURCH* of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to ALL the congregations of *the Holy and CATHOLIC CHURCH* in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied.
The Martyrdom of Polycarp (AD 117): Here's a direct quote
For, [Polycarp] having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, *he NOW, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and *the Shepherd of the *CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world* .[28] *(The placing of Polycarp's immortal soul in heaven after his martyrdom is exactly what we find in Revelation 18:20 with the Apostles and all the righteous)*
Notice how the author, says *Christ is the Shepherd of the Catholic Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD" In other words, the entire Christian world in 117 AD understood 2 things:
1.That Christ was the Shepherd of the Catholic Church and
2.The doctrine of the immortality of the soul and teaching of the righteous souls went to heaven after the death of the body was taught by Christ and the Church *throughout the whole world!* >
@@catholic4sure976 Did you go back to being Catholic or some other denomination?
@@zekdom I returned to the Catholic Church after showing how incredibly wrong were the Adventist's, the Armstrong's and the Protestants. Notice the quote below from 117AD.
The *CHURCH* of God which sojourns at *Smyrna* (Rev. 2) , to the *CHURCH* of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to ALL the congregations of *the Holy and CATHOLIC CHURCH* in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied.
The Martyrdom of Polycarp (AD 117): Here's a direct quote:
For, [Polycarp] having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, *he NOW, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and *the Shepherd of the *CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world* .[28] *(The placing of Polycarp's immortal soul in heaven after his martyrdom is exactly what we find in Revelation 18:20 with the Apostles and nall the righteous)*
Notice how the author, says *Christ is the Shepherd of the Catholic Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD" In other words, the entire Christian world in 117 AD understood 2 things:
1.That Christ was the Shepherd of the Catholic Church and
2.The doctrine of the immortality of the soul and teaching of the righteous souls went to heaven after the death of the body was taught by Christ and the Church *throughout the whole world!*
Another Adventist heresy on soul sleep and annihilationism bites the dust. If Mary named Yahshua (Jesus), the *proper* name: *"Rock"* , Christ's name would have been *"Cephas"* (John 1:42, 1Cor. 1:12, 3:22, 9:5, Gal. 2:9) in the Aramaic and *"Petros"* in the Greek, and "Peter" in the Greek to English. There is only ONE way to Say the *proper* name ROCK and that is CEPHAS in the Aramaic and PETROS in the Greek. If Mary had named Christ "Rock" we would all be calling Christ *"Cephas or Peter"*
UCG is not a branch of WCG. UCG was started by people who left WCG, that does not make them a branch of WCG.
A video on the Nordic and Baltic Lutheran state churches would be cool!
Surprising, yes, but totally true. I’ve been attending one for several years.
A total flip.
And God has honored them.
✝️🙏🙂
Have never heard of them before. Would be interesting to see if they are here in Canada. Haven’t seen any.
Growing up in WCG, I'm glad we found Christ in GCI and continue to reflect his love to everyone.
Is GCI a good church?
@@jakedubin8219 How do you define a good church? For me attending in GCI, is all about Christ and sharing his love to everyone. :)
@@reuenerio would you recommend it? And is it better than the old WWCG?
I know them from their 'Wordwide Church of God' time ruled unter Herbert W. Armstrong and the period after. They sent me lots of their magazines but they hardly had any churches in Germany to meet with. Do they still keep the sabbath? The bible clearly speaks of the sabbath as the 7.th day that should be hold holy cause God rested on that day after creating the world.
No, they dont. Living Church of God, United Church of God, and other split off groups do, though. I believe both have congregations in Germany
It would be interesting to have you do a deep dive into the Russian/Greek Orthodox Church concept of **'theosis'** in light of the comments made in your video at 3:25...
as an Orthodox myself it would be interesting to hear his take on it. People really misunderstand the concept
There's a massive difference between becoming God and becoming like god (lower case g)
The Essence-Energy Distinction is important to understand Theosis
@@highviewbarbell I absolutely can not get my head around theosis. I mean no offence, but it sounds worryingly Mormon. Could you explain it to me?
*DID YOU KNOW* If Mary named Yahshua (Jesus), the *proper* name: *"Rock"* , Christ's name would have been *"Cephas"* (John 1:42, 1Cor. 1:12, 3:22, 9:5, Gal. 2:9) in the Aramaic and *"Petros"* in the Greek, and "Peter" in the Greek to English. There is only ONE way to Say the *proper* name ROCK and that is CEPHAS in the Aramaic and PETROS in the Greek. If Mary had named Christ "Rock" we would all be calling Christ *"Cephas or Peter"*
GCI is sounding more theologically sane than most of the rest of US evangelicalism. That note about predestination sounds downright Barthian.
GCI doctrines are close to those of Karl Barth but closer to the theology of T.F.Torrance.
How does a denom go from “We’re the one true Church!!” to suddenly being fence-sitting on every doctrine possible
I remember seeing Herbert W. Armstrong on TV when I was young. He'd rant and rave and was always entertaining.
1:20 how do i sign up?
in other videos you talk of schisms and how these were often imperceptible to the regular churchgoers. I can imagine what a shock this change was to the WWCOG when the new leader started these massive retractions of what made this church unique
Yes, it was a HUGE change. The WWCG was very conservative. GCI however is very liberal. From one ditch into the other.😏
GCI bears no resemblance to Worldwide. None. Particularly when it comes to doctrines, but that was always the point. Please, out of respect, HWA's name in no way should be affiliated with the changes (deception) in the church that came after his death.
I really appreciate these videos as they are very informative
Is this connected to Grace Communion Seminary?
Who are these fantastic people!
God is kind and full of patience towards us.
Praise be to God!
Thank you,Joshua🌹🌹🌹🌹
Very strange to see a church admit that they were wrong for the first chunk of their existence. I couldn't imagine any other church doing that without collapsing to pieces.
Jehovah's Wittnesses did something kind of similar. To begin with we elebrated Christmas and Easter in the normal calculation. We also used to use the crucifix. Taze Russel also had some weird ideas about the prophetic importance of the great pyramid of Giza, which I think was kind of a fad back then, though I don't know how widespread that was. Though those changes were nothing compared to what these Armstrongists did.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Wait, the JWs used to use the crucifix? Like, with Christ on the Cross?
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
Well, to be fair... I think it could be said that for the 70-80 % of people who split away from this group upon their massive theological revision, THEIR notion of this church clearly DID "collapse to pieces".
My grandparents liked Armstrong and his teachings.
With the disclaimer that I'm Catholic, I should say that I've had a co-worker for 20 years who was raised in the Worldwide Church of God and in many conversations over the years my impression is of a devout Christian, extremely well-versed in the Bible, who follows certain Jewish practices such as food restrictions and holy days. The main distinction I feel is that my church emphasises the Gospels and Paul, while hers emphasises the Old Testament and Revelation. To me the main oddity is their narrative about the Lost Tribes of Israel, which to me, as a person with an interest in historical linguistics, the Human Genome diversity project, and anthropology, appears to fly in the face of everything known about the dispersal of peoples.
Now if only the Catholics would be so humble
I remember Herbert W. Armstrong having a television show on Sunday mornings. I never watched it but once. I remember him naming a bunch of denominations and religious and asking what happened to truth. Apparently he was the only person ever to understand the truth!
Absolutely!
He actually got the truth from what the scripture says.
@@nathaniellowry3861no Mr Armstrong made it up. He was a false teacher and “apostle”. The Word is clear about what an Apostle or Prophet (both of which he proclaimed he was over the years). He waffled on eschatology, “the beast”, the elect, works, race, and on and on and on. I was raised in it, was baptized in it, took all the old membership courses from when my parents joined in 1964. Nothing he “revealed” is scripturally or historically accurate. If you want to go back to the Radio Church of God days Mr Armstrong told us the eastern European nations were the Beast of the book Revelation and said “If Christ doesn’t return within the decade the Bible is a lie!!!” in the booming voice of his. Then it was “the European Union”, and if he were alive today he’d probably falsely claim it is Islam. I know you want to be a part of “the one true Church” and be a part of that Millennial ruling class he espoused, just as we all did, but we will NOT be “as God is”. There is only one God. There was none before and there will be none after.
Great video, full of knowledge, but it is hard to follow you, because you transit from subject to subject to fast
If you would really like a completely honest and middle-of-the-road opinion about the beliefs and structure of the worldwide Church of God before 1986, I would be willing to share everything I know, which is quite a bit. I was a member of wcg for 22 years, attended ambassador college for 4 years and was a song leader and speaker in church. There is quite a bit of misinformation out there about wcg under Herbert Armstrong and I would be pleased to straighten some of these things out. For example: self-appointed "Cult Watchers" have claimed that HWA taught you could be saved by keeping the Commandments and The Seventh-Day Sabbath. That statement was totally misleading and incorrect. I heard Mr Armstrong preach in person close to 50 times and had dinner in his home. I believe I can give you an accurate picture of the Worldwide Church of God during those years.
I would like to know more information!
@@donwelsh6164how can I be of assistance. I believe I can give you a pretty balanced view of church history and what happened after the breakup of the church.
The new people that hijacked the church only give their side of the story: here's another side no one wants to talk about...of all the people who lost their jobs and their homes who worked for the college and the church in Pasadena. We were the second largest employer in the City of Pasadena and there was at least one Minister who committed suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. A family member lost his job in Pasadena because of all the tremendous budgetary cutbacks and they lost their home which was foreclosed on and many other people lost their jobs and their homes and their income. They gave preferential treatment towards those who embraced the new teachings. Several hundred people's lives were ruined because of these decisions. They could have easily taken 50% of the church income and assets and gone off and started their own church, but they chose not to do that. That really does not sound like Christian Behavior to any open-minded person?
@@rexjamerson9316do u still listen to HWA?
Joshua, I wasn't aware you created this video. It is very good. I am a former member of Worldwide Church of God. I left Worldwide Church of God about five years after the church changes for unrelated reasons. I am now a Particular Baptist.
Obviously I disagree with GCI's disdain for Calvinism/Reformed theology. I would also have issues with ordained women leadership. I wouldn't be comfortable with open theism and the possibility of universalism either.
If I understand correctly, church leadership was mentored by Fuller Theological Seminary staff and that led to acceptance of some unorthodox positions. They hold a position called "Trinitarian Theology" related to the teachings of Thomas Torrance and Karl Barth. This theology involves more than simple acceptance of the Trinity (I am a Trinitarian) but somehow affects their view of possible universalism. Anyways, my suspicion is that their theology emerging from the church changes was misguided by association with Fuller Theological seminary staff. Fuller is well known for liberal theology.
What (besides polity) distinguishes GCI from non-Calvinist Baptists?
These guys sound great! Amazing that they came out of insanity.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
Most of the GCI congregations in the United States are house churches. 75% of the people who attended WCG when the changes happened left not 50%. Some who were there at the time said that Joseph Tkach senior was not appointed by Herbert Armstrong to succeed him before he died. This is a case where this channel needed to go beyond what GCI says about themselves. That is a weakness in this channel not investigating a church beyond what they say about themselves. Love this channel keep it going. Over all good channel.
The above is from more than one person who was there at the time. One of them I know.
Don't ask me for sources. Please investigate for yourself.
K
In 1986, HW Armstrong announced his selection of Joseph W. Tkach to the denomination and gave his reasons for his appointment. He may not have anointed him personally but the appointment and announcement was heard and relayed by the ministry throughout the denomination without any dissent. This is not based on what GCI says about itself but from my own experience and the evidence of my senses.
My family was caught up in WCG & its cultish ways. So much suffering & confusion, so many bitter memories
Unfortunately, I was also a victim of this cult. Many bitter memories....
@@bendav Let’s let the truth & love of Christ heal us
What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word.
Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary.
What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below.
New Covenant Whole Gospel:
Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.
He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.
Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)
We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Watch the RUclips videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.
@@bendav was armstrong a false prophet?
@@hrhqueene was armstrong a false prophet?
pray for the conversion of the romans and protestants to Christianity. Let you all walk in the light
Interesting
Joshua, if you are open, I would love to share some insights with you.
Garner Ted Armstrong... The Plain Truth...is there a connection?
Yes. The Plain Truth was the magazine put out by the Worldwide Church of God. Herbert Armstrong was the founder and Garner Ted was his son. They had a falling out in the 70s though and Garner Ted went on to form his own breakaway church.
@@UsefulCharts I guess you and Joshua are in collaboration and that is all good. I have to acknowledge that THe Plain Truth entered this Catholic family around 69-70 and was a presence in the bathroom reading stack til I left for West Point. It had an effect, especially since it was glossy in its day. As a revert in 1998 I have wondered as to how it showed seeds of doubt that might have contributed to my near 22 year estrangement from the Faith.
Thank you for your expert, impartial analysis. Tell Joshua to drop me a line...what I have to offer (free of charge) may surprise him. Tell him that his analysis of degrees of separation from the RCC and the Pope Francis pop ups got me chuckling.
@@MRizzio Mike, feel free to email me at joshua@readytoharvest.com
GCI is the first Barthian denomination. Herbert W. Armstrong has pretty much been replaced by Karl Barth as their principal theologian.
The Cult still exists. Those who have come to Christ have abandoned the “prophetic” teachings of HWA. The cults that have off shot still preach the same doctrines as “the one true church”.
Cult? Catholic or Protestant? Where does God command Christmas in the Bible? Jer 10? How about Sunday worship? Paul kept the 7th Day Sabbath 20 years after Christ's Resurrection...Open your Bible and educate yourself...
A step in the right direction imo
The picture is of Herbert W. Armstrong so it must be The Worldwide Church of God (British Israelitism)?!
Simonline🏴🤔
Once I saw Herbert W. Armstrong's picture, I knew exactly what this was.
From my neck of the woods in East Texas. Then his son took over, then another break-away. Ugh. Another classic personality-driven church business dynasty. "Lord, don't ever let me join a church named after a man...". 🦊
Churches named after men is troubling, just as churches, doctrines, or denominations founded by men (Luther, Calvin, Wesley, King Henry 8th, etc…)
@@specialteams28 Henry VIII shook up a church that had been in England for a long time before he (and Saint Augustine) came along. Other than episcopal oversight and iconoclasm, it is still the Church in England, and does not bear his name nor his particular beliefs.
@@specialteams28 They were all founded by mankind, whatever they may claim. Everything is a mere remnant of first century churches and all have evolved widely and wildly.
God will venerate Mr Armstrong in the end and shame the wicked .
You just can't let go of your Idol, can you?
demanding 30% of your wages, especially if you are poor to begin with, is extortion and thievery, not tithing.
It is a amazing that all of us churches work and pray separately, perhaps we should make more efforts to work together in at least some area of Outreach and service. Catholic here…😊
Is this the only group to so own their various failings? I'm impressed by them.
A video idea I'd love to see is comparing denominations which use non-standard canons. Whether its different inclusions in just some books, or whole new additions like the Mormons, or even more out-there groups, it would be interesting. I don't know much about it so maybe that's a difficult request.
I grew up in WWCG & I'm still a Sabbatarian with Messianic leanings. But I have very mixed thoughts about those old days & old ways. There was so much good & so much bad, all mixed together. It's not fair to completely hate on it nor it is fair to turn a blind eye to the bad.
H.W.A was The End Time Elijah who Restored All Things(Matt.17:10). He took The True Gospel to All nations( Matt.24:14). A truly remarkable man who achieved more with God than almost Anyone Ever!
I don't agree with what you're saying, he actually taught a lot of heresies
He claimed to be a prophet, and his followers believed Armstrong that he was an end time prophet ,what does the Bible tell us about who a prophet is.
A prophet does not come up with his own ideas but reveals the truth by scripture
God spoke to the prophets in the Old testament and they told the people what God had said to them
God does not lie or mislead, makes false accusations
If what a prophet says does not come true that means it was not from God
You're saying that Armstrong achieve more than anyone did he achieve more than the old prophets like Elijah?
You can in no way compare him to Elijah or any of the other prophets, I would call Armstrong a false prophet
When someone claims to have all the answers and knows the only truth and no one else knows the truth but him, that actually sounds to me like a leader of a cult, why would God keep the truth from people trying to follow him for so many centuries
Why would God choose to reveal the truth to this man in the 1930's and keep the whole of mankind in darkness for so many centuries
I won't go into too many details but a lot of his beliefs of contrary to what scripture says
Armstrong's belief was that when we become children of God and enter into his family we become like gods putting ourselves equal to God, there is so many problems with this type of thinking, there are so many scriptures that would contradict his statement
Even the Jewish people who follow Judaism, where the foundation of the Christian faith evolved from ,the Lord Jesus Christ was a Jew Himself ,and even the Jews would not even saw the name of God,incase they took his name in vain, forbidding to even think of putting themselves as the same level and deity of God
Armstrong has been shredded with controversy and beliefs that we're so unorthodox, even contradicting his own beliefs at times, he was a firm believer that is followers should not seek medical attention, that they should believe in divine healing, yet😅 in times when he was close to death he sought out medical intervention to save his life
That's possibly why so many split from the original church forming their own sects, taking with them some of his beliefs
Like the united church of God who split from the worldwide church of God but still practice some of his beliefs
I think it's very dangerous when we listen to, believe people who claimed to have secret knowledge that was only revealed to them
Ellen G White, along with her husband James White and Joseph Bates, founders of the seventh-day Adventist church , she also made claims to have revelations and prophecies revealed to her by God, that we're not true
She and her family attended Adventist meetings and we're followers of William Miller, who prophesied that Chist would return on October 22nd 1844, later she went on to establish the seventh-day Adventist movement with the other two mentioned. The idea of introducing the Sabbath into Christian worship from a seventh day Adventist perspectivestarted with Joseph Bates , she later had a vision with a Halo surrounding the fourth commandment, which in her mind convinced her that Joseph Bates was correct
She also had a view that we will not suffer eternal punishment but the dead go into a sleep until the second coming, she came by this belief because she could not be convinced that I loving and kind God would keep people in eternal wrath
I find it interesting that these two views of the Sabbath keeping and also not being in eternal punishment are held by both denominations
The Bible clearly states that we are eternal beings, either spending eternity with Him or in a place that is described as fiery torment or outer darkness
Is also clear that we do not sleep when we're dead, does not the rich man see the beggar call Lazarus who used to be in front of his house with Moses and ask the beggar to quench his tongue with a drop of water
And in the new testament Paul tells us not to question others on what days they keep as far as festivals or days of worship the main thing is that we see Christ our saviour, He is our Sabbath rest, we find peace and rest in Jesus, Jesus said
Come to me all who are heavy laden and burdened and I will give you rest
A deceived person does not know he is deceived. It is the same with a church. Time will tell who currently is and is not deceived about the truths of the Bible.
Do u listen to HWA?
@jakedubin8219 I studied all of his work thoroughly. He made some egregious mistakes. However a lot of his work is sound Doctrine. I'm in the process of writing Karma proving Herbert Armstrong was not the Elijah to come has many thousands of people believe. When Elijah does come you will undoubtedly bring new truth as well as correct all the theological problems putting the ministry in their place in the process.
@@johnpeter1999 did you like GCI?
For me this is one of the most interesting videos that you've done so far on your channel. Back in the 1980's I used to watch some of the programs and read some of the material from the Worldwide Church of God. I liked that they seemed very studious and serious about reading the bible and applying it to our daily lives - and yet they ended up with some doctrines which I just could not find any biblical basis for. I found this very frustrating! I stopped paying attention to them. It looks like they've moved far away from the doctrines which seemed extremely non-biblical to me.
demanding 30% of your wages is extortion , not tithing. These very wicked men knew exactly what they were doing. Even the devil quotes scripture and twists it to suit his ends.
@@BertGraef - You may notice that I said nothing about praising them. My observation was just that they've changed quite a bit in the last three decades.
Depending on what history one listens to Herbert W. was dis-fellowshipped or left COG7-day. He had some teaching correct but others were seriously wrong. I have heard many sects claim to be the "true church" like Roman Catholic, Church of Christ, or IFB-baptist. So I have an overall problem with any group making the one true church claim. He however was correct in observing The feast of Yah. His, and many Sunday keeping churches that have a concept of the great pastor, pope, or leader are all cultish. People need to understand that following a man is prone to serious error. This goes for Rabbinical Judaism too. We should only follow the Messiah, 1 Cor. 11:1.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
You never run out of denominations
10:57 DAS RIIIIIIIIIITE
Now if every other church realized that they are also wrong we might have something to happy about.
My Mom, Grandma and Uncle were involved in this when I was a child. My Dad would have nothing to do with them and subsequently I was half way raised normal. They loved too prophecy and of course the prophecy was terrifying to a kid. I am 65 years old and l think I am still affected by what I heard. In my opinion they were nuts and possibly evil.
Sorry you had to go through that, hope you can look back and be proud of yourself for getting to where you are now, bless you
To the owner of this video, may I ask, are you a member or somehow connected with GCI
No, I make videos on various Christian denominations.
@@ReadyToHarvest I was a member of Worldwide church for 9 years until '93. The post-'95 leaders who changed most of the doctrines were so wrong! WCG was a mixture of good and bad for decades but most of what it taught was biblical IMHO!! I believe there is no purpose for GCI's existence today!
i remember Garner Ted Armstrong......he had some troubles
1939 edition of Plain Truth . HWA claimed Mussolini was the antichrist.
Right......
GTA was a womanizer . And demanding 30% of your income is extortion, not tithing. HWA and GTA fleeced the poor of their church, instead of helping them.
What other denomination would they be closest to doctrinally now? It's good they persisted to make a point about rejecting Armstrongism, but I wonder what's distinctive enough to justify a separate movement.
It's not. They are just plain old evangelicals now. The splinter groups or the SDA are places for prior believers to go.
Philadelphia Church of God and restored Church of God would be your answer.
@@rexjamerson9316 I meant what denomination would Grace Communion international be most similar to. PCG and RCG both claim to be faithful to Armstrong's doctrine.
I don't believe GCI wants to be a separate movement but rather join the original triune God-established movement.
What on earth happens in the 19. Century, so many sects emerged in that time it’s really mind blowing
I was a member of WCG.When I understood our doctrins were cultish, I rejoiced in the new revelation.Now the leadership is over compensating and starting to accept evolution ect.Please, you are Saved by Grace through Faith, and that not of yourself,it is a gift of GOD.Seek the Holy Spirit without which you are not a christian and would not correctly understand Scriptures.
I really like this church. Too bad there aren't any congregations in our area.
the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism.
for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian .
for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali.
this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping)
as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.
Hello.
Great example of a denomination that should have just dissipated and absorbed into other denominations. Why would someone who believes these things want to be part of a denomination founded by someone who believed the opposite?
When a person accepts Jesus, he/she doesn't just publicly proclaim it then goes invisible afterwards.
After watching dozens of your videos I finally found a mistake! At 11:47 you read "adulteress" but wrote "adulterous." 😊
Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The world is overflowing with wackadoo narcissists.
Two problems with this church in my experience: first, evangelicalism is not much of an improvement, and second, the members seem stuck on beating the dead horse of debunking Armstrongism, rather than moving on.
Great comments!!
@@notoneofthesheep thanks
Wow. It is rather discouraging to see a former cult embrace much of what historical Protestantism believes and yet stumble badly on the question of origins. Contrary to whatever Mr. Morrison may write, young-earth creationism is neither an "extreme position" nor one possessing the "least evidence." Concordism (i.e., the various attempts made to reconcile deep time and evolution with the biblical account) is a relatively recent invention; throughout most of church history, Genesis 1-3 has been understood (rightly, in my view) as a historical narrative, since that is the plain reading of the text, and it is not written in the Hebrew conventions used for either poetry or allegory. Moreover, creationists have exactly the same amount of evidence as scientific naturalists; in fact, neither side can lay exclusive claim to any form of evidence -- both camps examine the same fossils, DNA sequences, anatomical structures, and other forms of evidence. Where we differ is in the interpretation of that evidence. Mr. Morrison's summation of the creationist position is exactly the sort of smear one expects to see from someone who most likely has never made any serious effort to grapple with the mountains of sound science done by young earth creationists and instead chooses to attack much less troublesome straw men.
When I was a kid, I listened to “The World Tomorrow,” featuring Herbert’s son, Garner Ted Armstrong.
I was young, dumb and awestruck by GTA. Little did I know how corrupt their "prophetic " system was. Glorifying antichristian zionists, extorting 30% from thier members, jetting all over the world to give gifts to politicians, claiming armageddon was around the corner. They lived on fear and greed and ignorance. How much of their own hubris they actually beleived , no one will ever know. But the cash rolling into that tax exempt organization was enormous.
↩180° doctrinal turn around..
Yeah the main organization pretty much became apostate to its own teachings.
You were in the one true church. Repent now and pray so you will have the courage to get your head lopped off in the tribulation. If you’ve been baptized in the world wide church of God then your only hope is through trial by fire. You will have to become a martyr. Stop spreading hate about Mr. Armstrong.
So you're part of this .
Armstrong made may mistakes as with many of his followers but this is what happens with man’s teach of the scriptures I believe the bible word for word God made. The world and the creation of life in six actual days
Better, but needs to keep reforming.
The name of Armstrong sounds familiar but it’s been a few decades since I last heard it; and at that time, it was a televangelist who taught that the ‘mark of the beast’ spoken of in the book of Revelation is manifest in today’s world as money. It’s entirely possible that I’ve confused the Armstrong of this video with the Armstrong of my past; but either way, with the eminent reality of dedollarization and the move of central banks to the use of programmable CBDCs, it would appear that a cashless society is a near horizon eventuality and fits rather squarely into the prophecy that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark.. (Revelation 13:17 KJV)
I listened on the Radio to every program. Read Plain Truth ea page. Read all the booklets. I found it interesting he sooo much respect from world leaders.
Well, I used to read some of the publications, and The World Tomorrow always had photos of HWA posing with world leaders. That doesn't mean they thought much of him and his church. They certainly must have enjoyed the Steuben Glass gifts that he gave them. The bills for those must have been enormous.
I grew up in this..... Yeesh...
We should try and guess what denomination this youtuber belongs to.
They do not seem to know what they do believe. Some things are very contradictory.
2:00 150,000
Just another man made "church". Jesus created One Church in Matt 16:18, the pillar and foundation of truth, 1 Tim 3:15, and the Final Authority, Matt 18:15-17. In 107AD, St Ignatius of Antioch, a Bishop in the Church Jesus created, wrote a letter calling his Church "Catholic" or Universal. All Protestant Churches came along after 1517 and are all man, or woman made. The end.
This is an apostate church, no other church has roots in a church of God except this one.
You do amazingly thorough research--that's the way it appears to me though I don't speak professionally. I don't know if you have an affiliation but I'd think it difficult when the scope of your videos shows how denominational churches are so like corporations with very little service function and so many organizational flaws. I'd doubt a creator of the universe would have anything to do with any of them. This denomination is so unusual in that it admits it's made mistakes.
He's Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB).
The Church in Apostasy,GCI
Still a group to stay clear of
Why?
Well there’s hope for Mormons yet.