Russell Wilson vs. Justin Herbert debate intensifies 👀 🍿| First Take
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Stephen A. Smith and Chris “Mad Dog” Russo are joined by Dan Orlovsky on First Take to debate over Russell Wilson and Justin Herbert’s futures.
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Herbie lives in Dan's head rent free
He’s gotta be dating his sister or something
No ppl just crowning him because he looks the part. No young black QB with a losing record as a starter would ever be called better than a guy who was 2nd in the league in wins and touchdowns all time his first 10 years in the league. And top 2 in TDs the last 5 years behind the GOAT. That’s RW resume. Not to mention the only active player other than a Mahomes with 2 Super Bowl appearances
Like Russell now lives in Nick's head when he sleeps at night
@@truthbearer7891 you a clown. Rw lost that superbowl and his stats have been going down since. "Let russ cook" turned into burnt meals real quick
@@jojachow you have no idea what your talking about
For the next 5 years, it’s literally and easily Herbert. Younger, bigger, stronger. Rare arm talent. Herbert continues to break records. Orlovsky is acting like Wilson didn’t play with one of the best defenses of all time and have a top 3 RB in the league. Wilson was gifted a great team from the beginning. Herbert has had to put the team on his back for literally his first 2 years considering how bad his defense and Special teams was. Wilson didn’t have to do that. End of argument.
Preach brother
y’all overrate justin herbert so hard 😂he’s not better than rodgers , josh allen , burrow , mahomes , russel wilson or matt stafford stop. Burrow took a worst roster to the super bowl, decision making and pacing is apart of playing QB not just physical tools.
@@TheBlackestKnight21 he excels at decision making and being a pre snap manipulator far more than russ does. I also think hes better than stafford, but those other names ill give to you.
@@TheBlackestKnight21 so burrow and his 40qbr in the post season (50 is for an avg qb) took them to the sb? Did you forget that the defense intercepted carr to win that first playoff game.. did you forget that they intercepted tannehill on the last drive and were able to kick a fg to win, did you forget that the bengals d shut out mahomes in the 2nd half and intercepted him in ot to once again give them a chance to win.. explain how burrow carried them.
@@pm21-v3h i said took, not carried. Big difference deshaun watson carried the texans and dan marino carried the dolphins. I said took not carried my boy so please read, the bengals are a great team 😂
Stephen A. to a grey-haired Dan Orlovsky, "YOU should know that Father Time catches up with everyone in the league." 😂😂😂
I like Dan...
He's established himself as a valid, independent voice and a formidable analyst...
Good deal, guy...
✅
Wilson is the better QB. Broncos were just a mess. Possibly the worst roster in the NFL. Without Russ they’re going to struggle hard
I would take herbert over the next five years. Russell Wilson is great and everything but Herbert has had the best start to anybody’s career the first couple years it’s not really fair comparison either although I would take Herbert over the next five years. You are comparing somebody who is 10 years in to someone who’s had two years. Let’s also put in du account that Herbert has put up great numbers and let his team two success without having a Defense like Russell Wilson needs to compete
U said the best start ? even better than mahomes ? Jackson was in the playoffs his second year .dak Prescott was in the playoffs?
Success ? Has he made the playoffs?
@@anthonytaylor7928 didn’t know Mahomes got put in last minute then took over QB1. Different situation and one team had better weapons.
so when Wilson wins with the Broncos it won't be because of him, it will be because of the defense? Did I get that right?
Mad Dog should be on First take everyday and debate against Jeff Saturday, Keshawn, Michael Irvin, Swagu, etc when it comes to football.
Keshawn??? 😂😂 Keyshawn is horrible. He should be removed
Okay! so Herbert can't even beat the Broncos with Teddy/Lock. Lol
Dawgie should be a regular. Always nice having a new spark especially someone who’s not deluded
I think that people are not recognizing that the NFC West has defenses that are built to destroy quarterbacks. The AFC West has quarterbacks who benefit from the lack thereof, and Russell Wilson is looking forward to throwing more.
Herbert worst o line and worst defense. Russel had one of the most legendary defenses ever like whatttt
russels o line was worst number 1 , most sacked QB over the past 3-4 seasons until this season joe burrow was. , also the seahawks defense was worse as well no idea what you’re talking about.
First Take seems to be doing ok since Max's departure. I guess ESPN doesn't need a duo. It's SAS with Molly as the moderator and rotating people like Michael Irvin and Mad Dog to come on the show.
Ya, SAS talked about keeping it fresh and its kinda working tbh. The two moderators works too when you have polarizing guys like SAS and Skip but you gotta admit this show is more interesting than Undisputed at this point.
it works bc SAS can handle being outsmarted by the former athletes that come on. he couldn't handle getting outsmarted by fax kellerman on the daily
@@theabsoluteWOAT it Maxs fault for inventing the cliff theory Stephen A never saw him the same after being wrong for 4 years straight
It’s boring to hear talking heads claim one excellent QB is better than another excellent QB
Dan gushed all over Wentz lol.
I love Russell Wilson but people forget he had one of the best defenses of all time in that SB run. All this competition will only make Herbert better. He's also 23. Dudes only getting started Chargers just have to build around him
And the broncos defense sucks..
Hes 24 today, hes getting old now
@@Omar-cm5pb Low IQ.
@@Omar-cm5pb number 3 defense 😂
The defense that blew the trip to the 2012 NFC title game?
The defense that blew a 4th quarter 10 point lead in the SB?
The defense that was fortunate that Blair Walsh missed that FG in Minnesota?
The defense who the next week in Carolina gave up a 75 yard run on the first play from scrimmage?
Stop overrating that defense because they were 7-9 the year before when they had a scrub QB.
The reason Wilson had so many game winning drives was because that defense was giving up so many leads
This is so disrespectful
Dan Orlowski Justin Herbert has thrown the most touchdowns in his first two seasons in the NFL more than any quarterback in history he has the most 300 yard games in his first two seasons he has the most completions in his first two seasons he has the most attempts in his first two seasons if you want stats I will give you stats ! Give Justin three more years and those numbers are gonna be mind blowing !!
Dan's just a hater of Justin has been since before he was drafted.
Mad Dog is perfect for First Take
There’s no such debate. The debate is Russ and Mahomes.
Watch their tape, Herbert is better.
Herberts first two years are way better than russ first two years. Justin is the better quarterback. The only reason this is even a debate is because russ has won 1 super bowl. If russ wouldnt have had that ring this wouldnt even be close.
Russ did more in his first three years than any of these other QBs.
Orlovsky steppin out the back of the endzone again.....
Its not close it's herbo
Wilson is the right choice simply because he’s done it for 10+ years
Quiet Molly
How is this even a debate. 10 wins over the last 10 years for Russell Wilson. The last 3 years the Seahawks were an average team that Russ kept relevant.
im taking herbert over the next 5 years idc lol
That’s how you know Justin Herbert is good, everybody gotta try their hardest to make an argument that a guy is better than him , Herbert got everyone in their feelings 🤣
Is this even a debate??? Ru kidding me???
as long as these QBs are playing ... russ might get him another chip in denver!
Wilson's never beat the chargers.. now that I think about it
only team he hasn't beat besides the hawks.
When I was growing up, coaches ate losses more than QBs. What, are coaches no longer responsible for losses? Are defensive units no longer part of losses? When the Seahawks were winning, people gave undue credit to the LoB and Marshawn Lynch. Russ made that team winners. They hadn't been winners before he got there. They wen't 7-9 in back-to-back seasons before Russ arrived.
The LoB was supposed to be carrying the team...couldn't stop Phillip Rivers and Antonio Gates. They were all about it when playing against the elite QBs (Brady, Rodgers, Manning, et al), but when they faced Rivers, Ryan and Palmer they made Russ's job harder.
The Chargers aand the Seahawks are the only teams Russ HASN'T beaten, and that will be cured this year. Think about that. Russ will be one of only five QBs in NFL history to beat every team in the league, and it looks like he will be the only QB who will retire with a winning record vs. Brady (hope they meet in this year's SB).
1:36👀
Wilson won 1 playoff game without Legion of Boom
Herbert won none
@@bonnypalmztv5845 Herbert has only played two seasons and with a joke defense.
They traded too much for him, man. He's already in his mid thirties. This was a terrible trade.
its not a terrible trade. they have a franchise qb now theyre going for it all.
@@lachy2287 it's a terrible trade in that they traded far too much for one person. He's good, but he's not worth what they gave. Build. They had a beautiful opportunity to really grab players and potentially trade for less for better or complimentary pieces.
@@damitbegone they have a good team they needed a qb mate
@@lachy2287 no offense, but you clearly don't watch football if you think the Denver Broncos are a good team. They're okay at best. What they really needed were wr's and a better offensive line. Definitely needed a linebacker or a good Def end to really shine through.
@@damitbegone no offence, but you clearly dont watch football hahahaha
never wanted dan to be right so bad, he was right about Stafford so heres hoping
Booger is one to talk recency bias...
First take struggling without Max lol
Clearly not SAS they don't have cashay
Herbert just entered the league Dan you’re wild’n 😂😂😂😂 Stephen A got ticked off
Wilson might have the past accolades but, in the two years since being drafted, I'd argue Herbert has outplayed Wilson even if it is marginal.
lol blame the hawks oline if anything
Orlovsky’s reactions are so funny 😂 just staring at Stephen a shocked
Mad Dog should've been on First Take after Skip left and Max should've just gotten his own show like right now. This Mad Dog dude matches SAS energy and wit to the point where you almost forget the 2 are yelling at each other 😂
@Danny Tallmage how would espn think that & still keep stephen A & let skip walk ?
They going to offer him a contract in the future
I think Justin Herbert took Dan's wife or something lol
Lmao
Let's be real......the legion of boom won that Super Bowl.
Back when he was eating lunchables. Once he started cooking he burnt the meals
True cause a defensive player was Superbowl MVP
and Russel Wilson got them there. You think Matt Flynn was ever going to take that team to a SB?
How many Super Bowls has Aaron Rodgers or even the GoAT won with a bad defense? Only RW is held to this stupid standard
how does this impact lebron’s career though??
Rent free on your mind
@@TsoRein You know he's joking right?
@@TsoRein look above your head, a joke just flew by.
@@TsoRein he hurt you with that one though
Are you kidding me? Hebert is just getting started. Let the man grow. Wilson is a Hall of Famer. Nothing to debate....
Career wise ofc russ, but to build a franchise it's definitely herbert without a doubt or hesitation
@@mac9108 younger is definitely better in this case
Yeah Wilson is a Hall of famer but if we're talking going forward the next 5 years Wilson is a runner let's face it he's not playing till 43 He could still play till 40 at an okay level but I see his later 30s has a strong backup not this great drop back passer okay but not great I'm sorry I'm from the same town where Herbert went to college and played his high school ball Eugene Oregon I'm going to roll the dice with Herbert It makes me sick enough that the team I've loved for 42 years in the NFL past him up I had a chance to have the hometown hero go to my franchise and they glossed over him for some f****** kid from coconut land in Hawaii via Alabama
FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS. Herbert is the answer, obviously.
@@dorya.2189 And Dan knows better but its a joke of a question to get ratings for a show its Herbert all the Way
I’m pretty sure Broncos fans would take Hebert over Wilson now. Let’s not talk about playoffs, the reason the chargers didn’t make it was because they had a bottom 5 defense. Meanwhile they had a top 5 offense and Hebert was top 5 in every QB category, TDs, yards, QBR
I would definitely take russell wilson in the playoffs
Stephen A. and Mad Dog have great chemistry. Reminds me of SAS and Teddy Atlas together. They both just scream at each other. Dan had a great segment with them here. Should've got Mina and Swagu as well.
You want a rumble in there huh lol
Two dudes that yell
@@thesinfultruth7697 yeah like they good tv people but when players go on people actually listen to those takes.
Really excited for Wilson this year. People are sleeping on him and forgetting that he's been suffering behind one of the worst o-lines and worst offensive schemes in the league. The offensive coaching in Seattle has been abysmal.
Broncos o line ain’t too good either. I gotta see it to believe it. As spectacular he is, his performances after the mid way point is atrocious
Well I might not totally agree with you but nobody is sleeping on Wilson. Lol nobody is sleeping on Wilson He's going to do Just fine in Denver but that doesn't mean he gets to be annointed anything higher than the third best quarterback in that division going forward
@@thepleiadianlightgridproje4337 second
@@adammcnabb5167 Yeah last I checked Herbert and Mahomes are in that division I'm not talking about the past I'm talking about going forward He is not even quite on the level of either of the two on his best day at 33 He's a sliver underneath of or close to but let's get real. Even if he does great this season I'm still right because in the long run and the next couple years he's not going to be so hot compared to those other two I mentioned. I could see Denver and him being really good this year maybe not winning a Super Bowl but like okay he lives up to expectations in Denver okay but then in the next couple years they slide again. So going forward he is the third best quarterback in that division if you think otherwise you're thinking with emotion somewhere deep in your analysis it's out of emotion
@@adammcnabb5167 Third* Russel Wilson RIGHT NOW is not a better QB than Herbert or Mahomes.
Orvlosky’s is the number 1 hater of Justin Herbert
Agreed
It's not hating its jus fax
Herbert will be looking pretty good if his team is able to stop the run next year. Im sure dan will credit the d if that happens but will blame herbert if the chargers d sucks. Pretty funny
And we supposed to take this guy seriously after he said Carson Wentz will go down as a top 10 QB all time????
They are just looking at QBs and who is better not taking in account the actual team Wilson currently has the better team hands down Herbert is really good but he doesn't have a top 10 D or a top Run game
Orlovsky knows more than both these guys believe it or not . Almost all his takes are spot on
@@flyguy7825 Doesn't have a top run game? Bruh Ekeler was literally top 5 in rushing TDs and had the same as Javonte Williams/Melvin Gordon combined. Not to mention he matched both of them individually in rushing yards
@@suv3534 so broncos basically rushed for 900 more yards than the Chargers if you combine the broncos duos stats. Now that is a significant diffrence, maybe the diffrence of a top running game to an average running game.
@@maltheplougbruchert9782 Broncos threw for how many yards?
As a Seahawks fan, I'd take Justin Herbert over the next five years. I like Russell Wilson and most teams would improve with him at QB, but I'd lean about 70-30 to Herbert.
I remember this silly Seahawk fan back in 2014 that he would take the rookie Derek Carr right now over Wilson.
Fast forward 8 years later and tell me what Carr has done better than Wilson.
Folks said the same thing about Luck and how did that turn out?
Wilson is a proven star, Herbert is not.
Just because someone is younger doesn't mean they'll be better just because they have a future.
You were a checked out Hawks fan
yeah if you are building for he future you take Hebert and if you want to win now you take Wilson
@@123slasher.16 Let me break it down for you buddy.
Wilson won the superbowl b/c of his defense. In the 10 years he's been in the league, only once has he eclipsed 40+ Total TDS. Herbert already did that in his 2nd year.
In the 8 years that Carr has been in the nfl, only once has he had 30+ passing TDs, Herbert did that in year one.
Herbert is proving it to you right in front of your face, and now much like Wilson did in his superbowl run, he will have a top defense.
@@raymundolopez3816you're bragging about a guy who has never been in the playoffs and who has a mediocre TD to INT ratio?
Funny how you brag on a defense that couldn't even get a ,500 record before Wilson arrived.
You better look at Wilson's numbers against the all time greats than talk.
Seattle is about to become the Carolina Panthers.
Orlovsky you say this with no credibility to your name how many chip you win
Wilson went to a better overall team it's not about who's better QB it's about who has the team!!! Wilson has the best D in the Division and the best Run game with a Really good young WR Corp!!! Herbert is really good but he can't play D or anything else.
Herbertt team overall just as good as the seahawks the past 4 years & Herbert literally has three great wr’s & austin ekeler is elite!
Second year Justin Herbert throws 5k yards. Name one time Russ did that. For the next 5 years. I’m taking Herbert all day. Russell is a great qb but will be on a decline over the next five years. He’s not in his “prime” anymore. He’s still great tho. But Justin Herbert is coming into his prime.
5k in a 17 game pass heavy offense. Reminder Russ has never been in a pass heavy offense nor has he played a 17 game season in its entirety
Are you really using volume stats to prove a point? Well, if you’re going to do that, let’s control for pass attempts and see whether Russ has actually done the 5,000 yard thing.
Worthy of note is that Jameis Winston has thrown for 5,000 yards. Should we rank him above Russ too? Anyways, we’ll come back to that.
*Let’s compare Russ’s 2018 stats to Mahomes’s for sample analysis*
Wilson in 2018 had 3,448 yards, 35 TD’s, 7 INT’s, and a 65.6% completion rate on 427 attempts for a 111 passer rating.
Mahomes in 2018 had 5,097 yards, 50 TD’s, and 12 INT’s on 580 attempts for a 113 passer rating.
Mahomes’s stats look better, right? WRONG.
Their 2018 stats were nearly identical when you control for the disparity in pass attempts. Here’s the math:
In 2018, Mahomes put up some dizzying stats, as did Wilson who threw 11 fewer passes per game that year.
Divide 11 attempts by Wilson’s existing 12.2 Attempts per TD.
11/12.2 = .902 additional TD’s per game, which is 14.43 additional TDs.
If we credit Wilson with an additional attempt differential based on the Seahawks playing from behind so frequently due to Pete’s poor play-calling, we get:
11 / 12.2 = .902
14 additional TD’s!
35 TDs + 13 TDs = 48 TDs
35 TDs + 14 TD’s = 49 TDs
You can easily adjust Wilson’s yards by multiplying his YPA by Mahomes’s attempt total.
580 * 8.1 = 4,698 Yards (basically 4,700)
His 5:1 TD INT ratio wouldn’t change. It’s static because we have a large enough sample size (statistically defined as 30+ data points).
49 TD’s * 1/5 (or .20) = 9.8 INT’s
*In other words, Wilson’s existing stats (3,500 yards, 35 TD’s and 7 INT’s) were the equivalent of 4,700 Yards, 48 or 49 TD’s and 9.8 INT’s.*
*Compl%:*
Wilson (65.6%)
Mahomes (66.0%)
*YPA:*
Wilson (8.1)
Mahomes (8.6)
*Passer Rating:*
Wilson (111)
Mahomes (113)
Here’s the fun part: Mahomes throws for 300 yards more than Wilson, but Wilson throws two fewer INT’s.
According to PFF, the opportunity cost of an INT is 75 Yards and one TD. So if we trade Wilson’s comparative advantage in INT’s for yards and TD’s, Wilson throws for 4,850 yards and 51 TD’s (52 if you rounded up his TD multiplier to 15 instead of 14).
Those are virtually identical stats, my man!
Understand what these stats are telling you.
The only differences between Mahomes and Wilson in 2018 were the number of attempts Russ was allowed and his weaker O-Line protection.
Mahomes had a career year, yet, on a per-pass basis, an average year for Wilson was good enough to match him.
I’m far more impressed with Wilson, with his having achieved those stats behind a porous O-Line, with limited weapons and in a run-first offense.
Btw, Rodgers went 0-8 on the road that season, missed the playoffs, and won fewer games in the NFL North than Wilson did. That’s right, Wilson outplayed
How many YAC do you think Tyreek Hill has had? Do you think any pair of Seahawks receivers’ combined YAC could rival Hill’s?
If we adjusted for YAC, Wilson would prove to be the more productive QB by far.
Do you know how surgically precise you have to be to stay hot when you’re getting only 26 attempts per game?
Just think, even that number is inflated by his end-of-game pass attempts due to his too frequently playing from behind.
That’s where the “Let Russ Cook” movement began.
Wilson isn’t just “darn good,” he has been toiling in relative obscurity with sports media and unknowledgeable fans perpetuating false narratives for years!
If only they could read stats beyond just yards and TDs and actually WATCHED Wilson beyond ESPN highlights.
He has done more with less.
Wilson is a better QB than both Rodgers and Mahomes, and he is going to prove it.
Put him on the Chiefs over the past five years and they win 3-4 Super Bowls.
Pete Carroll is an idiot. He has a 47-53 NFL career coaching record in games coached without Wilson, going back to the early 1990’s.
Volume stats are just volume. They mean nothing without context. Efficiency stats tell the real story, and Russ is one of the most efficient QBs in NFL history.
If Jameis Winston can throw for 5,000 yards you need to question the value of reaching that number. On its own, it means very little.
Alex English was the leading NBA scorer in the 1980’s for the entire decade. That’s right! It wasn’t Michael Jordan, Bernard King, Larry Bird, Dominique Wilkins, Tom Chambers, Kiki Vandiweigh, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, or any of the other big-time scorers. It was Alex English.
Why isn’t he even listed among the top-50 NBA players of all-time? Because that’s just volume. He scored a lot, but he also shot a lot. He wasn’t particularly deadly as a three-point shooter, didn’t have many assists and was considered to be a defensive liability. His FG% wasn’t great.
Do you get my point? Volume r stats are virtually worthless unless a player has efficiency stats to go with them. Herbert doesn’t, nor does he have the wins.
Herbert doesn’t have a LoB defense, but his offensive weapons and protection are better than any Russ ever enjoyed while in Seattle, so he should be performing better than he is.
Read my response, my guy? I’m a Master of Science in Data Science candidate at Northwestern University.
I summed down my analysis, but here you go. Don’t worry, I didn’t invoke confidence intervals, t-tests,p-values, or anything like that.
READ IT!
@@kttsakopoulos8168 : Read my response to OP. 😏😆I proved your point. People love to vote volume without putting it into context. Every top-15 starting QB in the league could throw for 5,000 yards under the right circumstances.
What matters is efficiency and consistency, and performing under high pressure. Russ is better than everybody but Brady at that.
Give Herbert a better HC & OC and he would have been in the AFC Championship last season
Danny Orlosky I don’t know what you smoked this morning.
Orlovsky really trying to make undermining Herbert’s greatness his personality.
Wilson has been winning in the the toughest division in football the past 8 yrs. Yes....for the next 4 years you take Wilson and you surround him with good receivers he is better at reading defenses
So he hasn't had good receivers. When did Metcalf and Lockett become bums?
@@RickityRawDawg top5 worst defense n bad oline vs top 5defense n avg oline don need to always be cookin down 14 n still win 10 games n the best division n 9 yrs
@@iddykejo8173 Seattle was ranked 11th in points allowed don't know where you're getting bottom 5 defense. Granted broncos were a top 3 defense in points allowed, the defense is better, but the O-line struggled last season as well.
@@RickityRawDawg that's one stat dude, their defense would get shredded if you watch the games, they had no d line and corners, he had a horrible o line.....he had two good receivers.....you can't do much more than what he did with them on that team. How people quickly forget how russel.wilson is amazing is beyond me but everyone will see
@@RickityRawDawg ... I'm saying that if he goes to Denver you have to surround him with good receivers in order for that team to be successful. Yes he had good receivers in Seattle but that offensive line was crumbling bad which caused him to get hit and even injured
Dan Orlovsky literally just hates Justin Herbert you should’ve seen what he said after the Chargers Bengals game last year
Dan Orlovsky: "I'm not doubling down on my bad Justin Herbert take!" As he's doubling down on his bad Justin Herbert take
Its so absurd, I dont get it lol
I think what hes missing is that Herbert has statistically had the best (or one of the best) first two seasons of any QB in NFL history as where Russel is at a plateau in a sense. Russel is amazing and no one should refer to him as anything less than elite. But for the next 5 years I’m taking the guy who is setting the records atm.
the best*
How many playoff wins did Justin Herbert win
@@emmanuelstanley9138 hahahaha you’re brain is huge dude. Last two seasons how many playoff wins does Russ have? They have won the same amount of playoff games since herbert has been in the league. Sometimes RUclips comments are just too perfect man.
Russ had the best rookie and sophomore seasons of any QB in NFL history. In fact, he had the best 6-year start in NFL history, and that’s with the LoB costing him two, (arguably three) Super Bowls.
@@fvw1187 : Funny how people think when the Seahawks were winning, that was because of the LoB but at the same time blame Russ whenever they lose.
No QB has carried a bigger load for his franchise over the past decade and done more with as little.
The LoB wasn’t some legendary defense. They were a very good defense, but Russ had to bail them out too many times to count.
Russ was largely responsible for the turnaround that happened during the LoB years, and the Seahawks’ lack of playoff success has been the result of bad drafting, which has led to a lack of depth, and bad game-management in 4th quarters by Pete.
Russ was always largely responsible for the Seahawks’ success, but it does take a team and coaching effort to win.
When does Pete Carroll get held accountable? People are ready to fire Mike McCarthy after two years. Pete has been f*cking up in Seattle for years!
Dan orlovsky needs to schedule a doctor's appointment immediately. Hes showing serious signs of early dementia.
Over the next 5 years? How is this even an argument? You guys would seriously take 36 year old Russ over 26 year old Justin? Cap. 38 year old Russ over 28 year old Justin? Please stop lying. We aren't talking about just next year. We are talking OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS. There is no argument.
People said the same thing about Tom Brady and Peyton Manning when they were at the end of the career and they both end up going to Super bowls ( Peyton went twice) because they know how to read defenses and make the right calls. That's what you get when you have a veteran QB and you definitely take him over a younger qb.
Russell Wilson is 5 years younger than Aaron Rodgers. And he takes care of his body as much as the best to ever do it. In a league where all rule changes allows elite level play well into late 30s. In other words you sound foolish
Stephen A. is going to have a heart attack if he keeps acting like George Jefferson. He needs a chill pill 💊 Why can't he state his point without insulting everyone with his anger. He might want to go to Anger Management classes. Never mind he Chummed the water 🌊 and got the other 2 guests hyper as well
Wilson’s good but Herberts a beast. Plus Herbert is doing what he’s doing with a COVID rookie year and a new coach/system his second year. If you want to use his past success you have to a knowledge the defense carrying them and the run game with Lynch
if you don’t think russel wilson isn’t a beast either then you don’t watch 😂😂 russ is better stop
@@TheBlackestKnight21 Russ is good but Herberts better. You should watch the games
dan just hates herbert, he always has even before his senior year at oregon.
I have been watching Dan Orlovsky make bad take after bad take for the past 2 years, consistently.
He’s right about Russ though. There’s no reason to take Herbert for the next five years over Russ when Russ’s best football is still ahead of him.
People may laugh at that assessment, but they e always laughed at anything positive ever said about Russ. That hasn’t stopped him at any level, nor will it stop him here.
He’s not washed at all…not even close…nor is he sliding backwards. You have never seen Russ with an offense-minded coach.
I think he’s about to own the league! He will certainly own that division, and there are several reasons to believe that.
For one, he has a clutch gene that only two other QBs in the league (Brady and Burrow) possess.
He’s the only AFCw QB who is currently undefeated against the other AFCw QBs.
He comes from what has been the NFL’s toughest division over the past decade, and he was the biggest reason for that division being the toughest.
Aaron Donald is probably the best football player in the league, but Russ kept the Seahawks and that NFCw division formidable.
Russ’s leaving simultaneously impacted the fortunes of two divisions: it reduced the NFCw from being the elite division to a top division while making the AFCw the new sheriff of the league.
That started an arms race in which the other teams in the AFCw scrambled to get elite D-Line help and other weapons.
When it was just Mahomes dominating, did the Raiders and Chargers feel the need to do that?
In fact, that division is probably the greatest in NFL history.
People can poo-poo Denver’s trading for Russ all they want to, but just remember that Denver has the most battle-tested QB, and he also happens to be the greatest at handling pressure.
That’s what the division is going to come down to…WHICH QB HANDLES PRESSURE THE BEST?!
News flash! It’s not Mahomes and it sure isn’t Herbert. I’m fact, Carr handles pressure better than both, and Carr isn’t as good under pressure as Russ.
Russ will own that division, and he knows it.
I do think he got sick of hearing about Mahomes and went to Denver just for the opportunity to match up with Mahomes at least twice a year.
He could have gone to Miami for Tua or went to the Colts - the latter of which might have been a better situation for him given the O-Line and RB. Those trades were on the table.
Russ wanted Las Vegas until Gruden was exposed and fired. Then he wanted Denver!
Mahomes is the one who should be worried, and I’m sure he is. We all know that Nick Wright is, because he’s running around trying to convince everybody and himself that Russ is a nobody now.
Russ is the best QB in the league…AND HE KNOWS IT!
That’s why he jumped at the chance to play in the AFCw.
Denver should win that division but the Chargers are nice ppl keep sleeping on Herbert and company like okay.
All they have to do is improve the defense they are the best team in the Division
Chargers will always be the chargers
Cheifs Denver just all of sudden Winning now
Sleeping? They never make the playoffs even with that "great QB" lmao
Aaron Rodgers gets beat every year in the playoffs only went to one Super Bowl, bill as the best QB in the NFL let that sink in drops the mic
The disrespect is crazy guy had one good year now he is better than a top 5 qb.
I been saying Russell Wilson has had only one good season
@@jramirez8885 😂 that’s so ridiculous to say.
@@jaleelgoines9949 Lol he needs to explain himself a lil better
Cause Russell Wilson sure isn’t top 5 anymore Justin Herbert is close too that with having two great seasons already in his bag..
Wonderful episode. I love to see them disagree 😂
I’d take Herbert Russ is good but he is old and Herbert has a much brighter future and Seattle defense was the main factor in that super bowl win
Defense did score all those touchdowns in the SuperBowl bud. That's like saying you would take Hubert over Manny and Tom Brady towards the end of their careers, that will not be wise because all three of these veteran quarterbacks know how to read defenses and can make the right plays during crunch time.
@@itsintheword2818 Ppl only say this disrespectful stuff for white QBs over black ones. If I said Vick in 2004 could have won a Super Bowl on the Patriots if he had that defense it could have been a true statement but no one would give that hypothetical a pass. Just like no one would say Cam Newton getting historic volume stats his first couple years in league was better than future HOFers and already elite. It’s really crazy how they lower the bar for these young white QBs
I think we can all agree that Herbert will be better for the next 5 years. Russell Willson will be 38 in 5 years and his game isn’t like Brady’s where he is a great pocket passer nor is he a historically great thrower of the football like Rodgers. He relies on his legs a lot and his game isn’t one that could age like those guys’ did. Herbert on the other hand had the best statistical QB rookie year, and has already proven to be one of the best QBs in the league and is a top 5 arm talent in the league with Rodgers, Mahomes, Josh and Stafford. And he will be ascending with his plays unlike Russ.
Wilson is a good pocket passer and can do a lot of the things rodgers can do.
lmao what are you talking about Wilson has elite accuracy and throws the deep ball like no other
Russel Wilson literally has the 4th highest passer rating of all time. He’s 2nd behind Brady for msot touchdowns the last 5 years and 2nd behind Peyton Manning for most touchdowns ever after first 10 years in the league. You are pushing a lame narrative based on style of play that Russell Wilson is the exception to in every way. He defies all those stereotypes. He’s just as accurate and cerebral and durable as all his white counterparts and traditional pocket passers
You think wrong. We cannot all agree on that. Russ has had to take lemons and make lemonade for years. As far as Stephen-A's argument that Russ had weapons, he didn't. Tyler Lockett just started to fulfill his potential. Until Doug Baldwin retired in 2018, Lockett was looking like a potential bust. He couldn't even stay on the field. DK just arrived in 2019, and he made a lot of boneheaded rookie mistakes. Chris Carson may as well be named "Call the Ambulance Car...Son!" The dude plays every other game at best.
We all know about the O-Line. You get ZERO agreement from me on Herbert, and as far as I can see, he is already way behind the 8-ball. Russ did things in his first three years that neither Herbert or Mahomes did. Herbert had a great statistical rookie year, but stats are just stats without context. The Chargers had no choice but to let him throw. If the Seahawks had been in that position and had a coach who could actually coach an up-tempo game, Russ would have thrown for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs as a rookie. If you don't think he was good enough to do that, you didn't watch him.
Don't speak for other people, my man, because Herbert might wind up being the next Dan Fouts or Phillip Rivers. Drew Brees left the Chargers for a reason, and it wasn't because he wanted to go to Mardi Gras. That organization sucks QBs dry and puts them out to pasture.
And if you haven't noticed, Russ does NOT depend on his legs. He has proven the exact opposite. He uses his legs strategically. Go talk to Ravens fans about a guy who relies on his legs too much.
He says Seahawks haven’t drafted well because they only drafted one all pro. Well Russ has only won 1 second team all pro in his entire career
Justin Herbert with the improved Chargers defense will make it far. Keep sleeping on us!!⚡️
Why do y’all feel the need to pick on Herbert lol out of all QBs
Browns Mexicans and native Americans 12 tribes of Israel we are God chosen people the real Hebrew Israelites of the earth
Y’all too scared of the AFC West. Wilson ain’t scared. LFG.
Molly moving around too much in the background during the 1st take lol
She's snorting that Stephen a Smith coke now lol
You mention Wilson or Burrow for the next 5 years…you know Dan be on Burrows nuts in a heart beat 🙄🤦🏾♂️ mans just has no respect for Herbert 🤷🏾♂️
First take has taken a turn for the worst these guys have the worst takes can’t listen to em no more
Stephan A literally said to mad dogs face 2 weeks ago that berbert wasn’t even better than dak prescott , now he’s changing his mind 😂😂😂😂😂
Molly please stop talking
Stephen A get extra excited 😆 when he speaks 🗣 about the NFL and when he 🗣 speaks about the NBA it’s like a emotional 🖤 roller coasters 🎢
This is like a kid yelling at his uncles who don't think he knows anything yet lol
If you take Herbert you’re a meat rider dude is good but Wilson has done it before Herbert hasn’t even played in a playoff game
The only meat you ride is mine!!! Herbert is only 23 and already has thrown for 5,000 yards something Russel Wilson has never done in his 11 years!!!
Russ got carried by L.O.B for his only sb other than that herbie all day
@@lorenzomartinjr yet he won a playoff game his rookie year.
And i hate the chargers are a bad team excuse when a 37 year old Philip Rivers went 12-4 in 2018.
@@maltheplougbruchert9782 and what Philip Rivers record in 2019??? I will wait for it....
@@lorenzomartinjr dude was 38 and it’s the same roster. If not better now with people like Slater at OT.
The book is out on Russ. Just look at the last 2 years. 2020 Russ was cooking 1st half of season, defenses adjusted and every team has copied the approach ever since. He struggles with short passing game and down the middle. It's related to his height, he can't see until he gets deeper in his drop. His deep ball is top notch, everything else needs work.
To say Wilson never had anything to work with is crazy asf, we not even talking about the Seahawks current offensive core but Russ had LOB during their prime years and even still he had weapons on the offensive side of the ball with a great coach
He had weapons but he's been playing w/ one of the worst o line for years
@@daebak7370 him having weapons galore makes up for the bad offensive line, it’s not like he had the bad o line plus no weapons plus no good coaching.
Weapons galore? Doug Baldwin and Sidney Rice and company were not that. Metcalf is his first ever arguable legit bonafide star WR. And we will see how good Metcalf is without Russ. Russ throws the most accurate tight window throws in league and he buys more time to get receivers open. We will see what they do without him
The LoB and Marshawn Lynch were nice pieces, but what did they win before Russ arrived? They were 7-9 in back-to-back seasons before Russ arrived, and Russ still hasn't had a true #1 WR his entire career, nor has he had a consistently available RB since Beast Mode left, or a good O-Line! Doug Baldwin went to two Pro Bowls, never made All-Pro and retired prematurely in 2018 due to injuries.
The LoB by 2017 was a shell. Kam Chancellor and Cliff Avril had to retire, Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas were locker room cancers, and Michael Benett was declining and acting out on the field.
Tyler Lockett just became good in 2019! Before that, he looked like he couldn't even stay healthy, and in fact missed time in 2019 too. People thought he was going to be a bust! DK arrived in 2019, and his route tree still isn't very good. he has mad potential.
Put Russ on the Chiefs over the past 5 seasons and they are 3-time Super Bowl champions at the very least, and Russ eats SF alive, unlike Mahomes.
dan getting bullied 😂😂
Russell Wilson never threw for over 5000 before
Everyone: If only Denver had a QB.
Also everyone: yeah but not that one, you need to find the next Tom Brady or your team is trash.
Also everyone: Dak Prescott and Herbert are the best Qbs in the league and they will win the super bowl.
Not everyone. Not also everyone. /
Flowers on his what… 😩
Come on Stephen A.. you mean like the flowers you send Rogers???
Let's see Justin Herbert win a division, a conference or a Super Bowl, then we can start talking...
Let the boy mature... no debate whatsoever ...
ESPN trying to make up bandwidth for content now... but it's good because at least Mad Dogg brings in the energy
I can’t take another mad dog segment
Dan always hating on Herbert