Installing 4kW/Hr battery bank with 800W 120V Inverter and Trickle Charger from Tactical Woodgas
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Installation of 800W Tactical Woodgas battery bank with 3 batteries, for a total of 4kW/h backup energy. It has two AC outlets and a USB outlet and will run your refrigerator or TV/Xbox and charge your phone during a power outage.
New video with a solar charge controller added is here: • Installation of home/c...
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New version with solar charge controller added: ruclips.net/video/xBr1utdf94E/видео.html
Great Vid!! Right to the point, clearly explained, no bla bla bla. Very educational and easy to understand. No stupid background music. No 2 min intro that has no purpose. Just knowledge/info that is very useful. Congratulations.
Well said David. It was so great with no stupid music and useless introduction. Thank you commenting on this educational useful video.
David Dion
Thanks!
Take your negative from the charger and move it to the negative terminal of the third battery so that you are getting balanced charging. Do the same for the inverter so you get equal discharge from the batteries. Otherwise you will wear out the 1st battery prematurely. In my experience those small inverters are not pure sine wave and put out more like a square wave... so many of your appliances with motors will not like that and you risk messing up your expensive electronic gear (TV, stereo, Xbox, etc.) if you are not using a ton of filtering to smooth out the AC. Don't expect to get 4KWh from this system, and run a fan on that inverter when pulling a load as it's going to get HOT (that's where much of your battery power is going). Put a piece of slate or heat shield between it and the battery case it is sitting on so it doesn't melt the case or cause a fire.
Good video. More tips for working with batteries: paint the tops of the terminals red and black for positive identification, no drinking while working with batteries, remove all your jewelry, and cover the handles of your tools with electrical tape.
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Great video! a HUGE word of warning, DO NOT under estimate the power of a 12 volt battery. I had a battery in a 72 Chevy blow up and blew a hole in the hood of the car. Back when they made them out of steel.
damn.
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++You should have connected the bars of the + lead to the upper left-hand corner. As you did, and your negative lead to the ottom right and corner, for your charge control and inverter. In order to keep each of your batteries. Equally charge and discharge. A common mistake. This lets the current flow through all the batteries. Equally. When using more than one battery. Always connect your leads to the opposite end the batteries. Whether it be in serious or in parallel. As you did there..
Actually, connecting Charger/Inverter to the (+) at one end and the (-) at the other end is better, but still NOT the best way! Method #3 is BEST = www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
Just made a new video of our 1200W version installed in a truck with a solar panel.
ruclips.net/video/Gvei04PWkqg/видео.html
Tactical WoodGas k
Would 4 awg be enough between 2 batteries for 60 amp draw
I have 5 batteries 12v in parallel with a 2500W sine wave inverter. one 24v 270w panel mppt controller works well even in cloudy weather. 50l 1500W hot water spoiler works well, etc., etc. in the summer I charge three electric bikes from an inverter with their own chargers.
Thank you for taking the time to film and share this video
Only one small criticism - the positive inverter cable should be attached to battery 1 positive, and the inverter negative cable should be attached to battery 3 negative, rather than both cables being attached to battery 1, with batteries 2 and 3 hanging off battery 1. That way the inverter power HAS to flow from all three batteries equally. This method of wiring takes out any imperfections (resistance) in the connections between the batteries. The mains power charger wires should be connected in a similar fashion so all batteries share the charging current equally.
I agree with you on that he also didn't show where the load wiring is going to be
@@homermcclain7694 The load wiring gets plugged in into the power sockets provided on the inverter.
@@homermcclain7694 Actually, connecting Charger/Inverter to the (+) at one end and the (-) at the other end is better, but still *NOT* the best way!
Method #3 is BEST = www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
Your battery is connected wrong you need to pull from the rear with one cable either neg or pos to the front and use the front pos or neg to the source. Otherwise it's going to give you a unequal charge and hurt your batteries. Think of the batteries as cells in a big battery and the post are at each end of the battery.
Make sense! I also think his setup will drain the closest battery faster, bad for long run
Pls boss how many battery's could be needed for a 3000watts inverter ware the transmitter is 1kv
Nope that is wrong also. You need to do is run a separate outside pool where you go to each battery independent is the correct way in the best way. Any other way you'll charge out the outside batteries and in the middle battery last you got to run from each one a separate cable.
there are a hundred comments all saying the same thing, and you are all wrong.
with the 8 gauge wire he uses the voltage drop from the left battey to the right one at 800W pull is only 0.08V
its not enough to worry about,
If you are using the batteries to start a 1000 HP engine pulling 900A.. then yes
pulling 67A to an 800W inverter no problem
Great video. Inspired me to get started on this project for my family for emergency power. Don't worry about the negative comments. I've got an electrical/electronic background under my belt, and your system is good. As a matter of fact, it Inspired me to do an additional job to go along with it and make things just that much better for my system that I'm building. And the good thing is that you included a charger on top of the battery box. If there's an emergency and your need to top of the charge, a simple extention cord pluged into a generator is all that you need.
I agree, there are 100 replies saying the same thing, hook the black lead to the 3rd battery (on the right)
that looks like 8 AWG wire. Its resistance is 0.6Ω per 1000 feet. His wires are 2 feet long, so about 0.6/500 = 1.2 mΩ resistance from one side to another
if the inverter is pulling its full 800W that is 67 Amps, the voltage drop if all the current is coming from the 3rd battery is only 80 mV (0.6% of the rated 12V)
its not going to make any detectible difference in how the batteries are drained or charged. If the first battery is draining 0.6% more than the last one, its negligible. And it will only matter if all three batteries are completely drained.
Recharging does not matter - that is NOT a 67A charger, its only a few amps. The voltage drop when charging will be microvolts difference from one to the other side.
Buy pure sine wave inverter it's best need knows how Amp invented have if its 20Amp ok if you buy 1000 watts of buy heater and 1500 watts not run it ok need buy like 3000 watts pure sine wave it's best used real deep cycle battery have 230A
I have tryed different configurations with three batteries on my camper solar system. I have found connecting the load to the positive and negative of the middle battery works the best. I have never seen a video showing this setup.
Agreed. Same.
@@TonyB1999 ..... does connecting the load to the positive and negative from the first battery to the third battery also work
you should have installed the charger and inverter negative post on the opposite end. like that all battery are charged equally.
thats a great little back up system. simple systems like this are usually the most useful and practical. every house should have this installed. It looks like a $350 system, worth every penny when your power goes out.
Do your homework… the positive and negative should be connected at opposite ends… or move negative wire to inverter down to negative terminal on right battery… yes it makes a difference, you wouldn’t think so just being a common ground but research it and see
That's what I thought and I'm just a newb trying to learn.
@john
Can you please elaborate a little I’m curious to know what difference that makes
Definitely curious
Thanks
@@eharris6347 If it's done the way he did it the first battery thats closest to the charging cables will get most of the charge current, then less on the second and way less on the third. This will cause an imbalance of charge states across the 3 batteries and over time will ware them out faster. One charge lead should be on the positive terminal of the first battery and the other on the negative terminal of the last battery. This will ensure an even charge across all three batteries.
Do your homework. Battery in serial and parallel connection.
Okay so the problems here.
The inverter should be connected to the middle battery along with the charger.
Why?
Power draw across the battery should be even. So what they have done is pull power through two batteries and the charge will do the same, so you will tend to kill one battery first.
Also the cable, I think it's only 50amp rated. So depending on the inverter and power draw, they may melt and cause a fire.
Also misleading, if these are 110ah batteries, your more likely to get 50-60ah from them or 1.8kwh.
Use 24v, so much better for the power draws, and up to around 3000w. Anything more and it's 48 volts. That will take you up to 8kw.
I'd buy a solar panel and charger, because when the mains is out, you can't charge the battery! And 1.8kw won't last long.
Can you recommend a better video?
Thank you soooooooo very much. I watched my share of useless videos on this topic before finding your video. Your video was clear concise and easy to understand......
Suggestion; invest in a tripod for your next video.
nice starter system...I finally got 5 forklift batteries, they work awesome great! 200amp hours per battery so I got 1000 amp hours total...only use 20%percent of the battery bank per night to extend battery life...cheers
"only use 20%percent of the battery bank"
Good practice!
Excellent instructional video. Clear, step by step instructions. Great gob! and thanks! 😃👍
+stevemichelle1203 I suggest you do some more research and you'll find out that this is wired wrong on that first battery. The way it's set up to drain the first battery is gonna kill it, he should have taken the POS post on the first and the NEG post on the third and hooked those 2 up. This would drain evenly from all 3 batteries and not strain the first one..
+Kirkville Locomotive Works Minor benefit from that, with such short and heavy cables. Doesn't hurt, feel free to connect that way.
To connect your lid the positive should go to plus on the left battery but the negative should be connected to the battery on the far right, this will equalize the charge/discharge through all batteries
At the amperages involved in supplying enough current to the inverter, it does make a difference. Also, since battery charging -- especially in a battery bank -- depends on resistance, any difference in resistance that's not actually within the battery will result in the battery and the "end of the resistance" chain being chronically under-charged. That's a sure recipe for reduced battery life and performance.
Even with thick cables (and these aren't "thick", I have 0000 cables on my battery bank and they're barely up to spec for my 2500 Watt inverter; they're bigger around than my thumb), there is enough resistance to make a difference.
It's not the amperage, it's the resistance/impedance to the "end of string" battery(ies). Charging with modern chargers works on resistance -- even if it's a small resistance, the charger will "see" the battery that the charger is attached to as fully charged but it will also see the string further down as fully charged but it really won't be. If you start less-than-fully charged and don't fully recharge that battery later, that battery will have a significantly lower life.
Battery maintenance is the big thing in all ways, but not balancing a string will put you in jeopardy for damaging batteries unevenly.
It's especially important when you can move a cable and make a $100 battery last two more years longer than it would have if wired in in an imbalance.
@@brucebear1 Actually, connecting Charger/Inverter to the (+) at one end and the (-) at the other end is better, but still NOT the best way! Method #3 is BEST = www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
Just build a Battrey box for all cells then vent it outside with dryer vent and a small 12volt fan and dryer vent with flaps. Maintain water levels on all Battreys use distilled water and don't overfill cells mount inverter outside of Battrey box to avoid explosions. Use a socket and a ratchet and short extension tape on tools would help avoid accidents. I guess for a amature set up but you are venting fumes into the house mount stuff down so during a storm or earthquake your Battreys don't fall or get damaged your primitive setup could use improvements
Make sure everyone who watches this video knows when you use automotive batteries you only get 20% of your amp hours. AGM is 50% and Lithium is about 80%.
Drawing power below the % capacity will kill your batteries in less than a month.
I recommend sealed AGM for this and most other applications. (100 amphour rating = 50 usable amphours)
Lithium would be good for Off-grid solar generators and flooded leads are really only good for engines
If you want to be sure that you charge and discharge your batteries equally you need to use a pair of shunts which connect to each battery equally. When going battery to battery in the way shown there is a MINUTE difference in the amount of power going to and from the first and last battery in a parallel system (which in most situations you would not even notice) due to the difference in the cable length which loses voltage in the form of heat dependent on the distance traveled (a common problem power companies have with distribution lines). To be anally retentive about your wiring in parallel, take 8 cables of EXACTLY the same length and connect them all to the batteries, but not from battery to battery. Instead run each pair of cables to two common shunts (making sure all positives go to one and all negatives to the other) then connect the charging system and the inverter to these same shunts, also positive to positive and negative to negative. This is a lot like putting headers on your car engine, they help to even the load on each cylinder, or in this case battery, to insure that each battery is charged and discharged equally. You would also connect the 12v power out to the same two shunts. This method also lets you remove or add a battery to or from the system without taking the system offline. This makes your system "hot swappable," to borrow a phrase from the computer industry.
This is very interesting. By doing it the way you explained, are the batteries still considered connected in parallel?
What many don't understand is that an inverter is inverse proportional to the current output to the current input . Say you want 400 watts output at 120 volts . The inverter will draw around 35 amps or 420 watts from the battery bank . The higher the power output you want the more power from the battery bank it takes . Then there is the type of inverter you need to such as either modified wave form or a true sinewave inverter as some electric appliances will work with a modified sinewave inverter while others require a true sinewave inverter . But there again remember that what is needed for the house hold needs is less than what the inverter draws from the battery bank .
used for emergency back-up. plugged into 110v wall charger.
EXCELLENT START EVERYONE TO LEARN FROM THIS VIEDIO GREAT WORK DURING TIMES FOPR PEOPLE TO PREPARE FOR DURING ANY POWER OUTAGES !
+Dawud Muhammad I suggest you do some more research and you'll find out that this is wired wrong on that first battery. The way it's set up to drain the first battery is gonna kill it, he should have taken the POS post on the first and the NEG post on the third and hooked those 2 up. This would drain evenly from all 3 batteries and not strain the first one..
Yes that is correct.
In order to have balance on the batteries, you need to connect positive of the inverter to positive of the first battery and the negative of the inverter to the negative of the last battery.
Actually, connecting Charger/Inverter to the (+) at one end and the (-) at the other end is better, but still *NOT* the best way!
Method #3 is BEST = www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
@@MrSummitville I don't understand what difference it makes.
@@seahawksforever9504 Did you read the article ?
@@MrSummitville I want a simplified version but you cannot explain it. You are useless
@@seahawksforever9504 I can't help you, since you are too lazy to read the article that I so kindly gave you. You are ungrateful ...
You must have a small fridge if you can run it on an 800w inverter. Many recommend a 2000w for big appliances for start up voltage draw. I had a 2000w inverter and it powered my 52" big screen on a 240 amp hour bank for hours but I wouldn't trust it on a fridge. I use Xantrex and they are awesome.
wingmanalive Most modern fridges are energy star rated and use less than 200 watts when running / 700 watts when starting. I ran my large 25 cubic ft fridge for a good long while on a 750 watt power inverter and a 95 ah battery. I ran a kill a watt meter and found it pulled 730 watts when the compressor first started and 180 watts after 2 seconds. The only type of fridge I can think of that pulls a huge amount of power is a commercial fridge for a store or school cafeteria.
200 watts when running? Is that with the door open or closed lol? I'm no electrician but that is a surprising statement. My fridge is at least 15 years old and I know my 400w running/800w peak inverter would NEVER power it especially on start up. Always gave me a shut off. Now I do have a 1000w Xantrex inverter I haven't used yet so I assume it would run it based off your experience.. My 2000w inverter sleeps with the fishes lol. I played with that beast until I killed it. I just need to acquire the batteries like you show here to power my fridge for a decent amount of time in times of emergencies.
wingmanalive Oh, that explains it then......both of my fridges are only around 8 years old and energy star rated. They honestly use less than 200 watts running. I did go and see how much they used with the door open and found that they pull nearly an extra 100 watts!(Darn regular light bulbs LOL...need to switch to LED or CFL blubs). They Shut my little 750 watt inverter down when trying to start with the door open.
You'll get more even discharge rates from the three batteries if you connect the inverter with positive at one end of the bank, and negative at the other end of the bank. Otherwise, the resistance in the connecting cables will cause the second and third batteries to discharge at slower rates, and can cause heating of the connecting cables. The same connection arrangement is critical for charging if you want all three batteries to be charged to the same level.
Exactly. That is what I saw also. Good system but it would be better if hooked up like you describe, you should always charge/discharge across the battery bank....
@@FloridaBoyBushcraftSurvival ....Correct!
I'm putting together a similar system right now... Everything I've read is that you always use the same batteries for the battery array because they may have different charging characteristics. Same model, same capacity, same voltage.... basically make all the batteries identical. Particularly the capacity. I think someone also mentioned that you "draw power" from both ends of the battery array, not the last battery in the series. Neg lead on one end and the pos lead on the other end.
Actually, connecting Charger/Inverter to the (+) at one end and the (-) at the other end is better, but still NOT the best way!
Method #3 is BEST = www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
I like your video, but if you advice people how to, then at least please explane and do it right (no offence)
(you can check my advice on the net also, i'm not joking! )(i'm a proffesional (offgrid)battery bank specialist, so seen it, done it Repaired and replaced it in practice.)
always connect negative and positive leads from the inverter and charger opposit on the battery bank, (so forinstance the negative on the left battery, and the positive on the right,) this wil help to use all battery's equal, connecting all the outgoing/incoming leads on only the left batery wil drain the left battery more then the right one, resulting in differend charge/decharge rates, damaging the battery's, you should think, it doesnt matter cause they are connected by the leads, thrust me, it wil make a huge difference., be also aware that iff you parralel the battery's indeed the amp hours will double, but you can only use half of that whitout damaging the battery,s, so in your case, you have 300 amphour totall, you may only use half of that, so there is 150 amps to your proposal.! , also a small comment about using different adge, mark and badge battery's, its not a good idea to put those in parralel whitout a constant charge, due to the different internal resistance's you wil create diferent states of charge, damaging the battery's)(so you will worn out your expensive battery's way sooner as nesssairy.
(sorry for my rusty English, its not my native language! (dutch)
Best Regards, Richard , VRM marine Holland.
When connecting the way you suggest, should the positive and negative wire be the same length to the trickle charger?
Semantics Simple doesnt matter..
Great advice. Good video except for that one (important) detail. Wiring your battery bank as shown in video will cause early failure of the batteries closest to the connections to inverter/charger. Then you'll be scratching your head wondering what went wrong.
PS, unless you have only a single solar panel you will realistically want more batteries in order to have more usable power output. 8 batteries minimum. If you can afford that is. If you're on a budget then you have to make compromises and that's ok, you're still saving some money on your electric bill with 3 batteries.
I see the value in very large battery banks, but in the three battery system with one-foot large cables shown here, I have not had uneven aging in my four year old system. I just disconnected them and did an internal resistance check, and all three are within 4% of each other.
Aaron C just as y stated in my former story...lol
but the different length of the cabels from the trickle charger to the battery doest matter, the thickness off thease leads are critical tho, the shorther the thicker the better.
Posting so people can learn from our mistakes... I used similar Walmart marine batteries (24DC) for a small solar system. There are two important things to be aware of - the amp hour rating of these batteries is based on a 1 amp draw which would never happen - actually capacity is much less than the rating under normal use (battery capacity is not static - it's based on draw). They also have thin plates which means they won't last for many cycles, I barely get a year or two from mine with light use. For the same price I could have purchased 6V GC2 (golf cart batteries) from Sam's Club, which have thicker plates, an honest rating (C20) and a longer cycle life. Having said all that, if you're keeping yours charged until there is a power outage you won't be as concerned with cycle life. I recently upgraded to Trojan T105-RE batteries which cost twice as much but should last 10x longer.
Go to Iron Edison Battery Company for your batteries.
Sorry miss link IronEdison.com
The best way to wire batteries is from battery to center pole, one for positive and one for negative. Say you have 10 batteries and they're 12 volt each, the typical way I see on youtube is from one battery to the next, WRONG!!! The first battery will die before the rest and so on, because all of the stress is on the first battery and on and you wont get nearly as much sudden heavy current (Amperage) as you will this way so you wire the positive wire from each battery to a single long and thick bolt mounted thru the board and stack the wires on top of each other which you will also draw your DC power from that and the same for the negative and if you need 48 volts you wire four 12v batteries in a series and run that to the same bolt you would use for 12v. picture them in a circle and the center has 2 bolts, but that may be Impracticable so stack 5 batteries on one shelf and 5 on the next keeping the same gauge and length wire for each battery and you'll have a long life cycle with much more punch. You tap from each battery at the same time.
Modified sine-wave will normally cause compressor motors (and all motors) to run very hot and reduce the life span.
Dennis Steele
I have not found that to be true. What is your source for that information?
looks good but that is not a 4kw hr battery bank, i know its hard to determine those walmart batteries capacity, but i have 20 of them and each battery makes 1200w but ( you can NOT let it go below 50% or that will permanently kill the battery) so you only have 600w usable power. And that 600w usable is USAULLY only the first discharge because batteries degrade over time especially lead acid, lithium last longer but cost 4 times more. but overall these batteries best bang 4 buck especially since they at every local walmart for 100$ and 3-4 yrs might have to replace longest i heard was 8yrs with good maintenance (never go below 10v and charge up everyday)
I use two T-105 Deep-Cycle Flooded golf cart batteries connected produce 12 volts. They have deeper cycle rating and work far better for this type of solution, Go Power! GP-RV-80 80-Watt Solar Kit with 30 Amp Digital Regulator.
Is there a something I'm missing? I see relatively few people connect chargers and inverters to opposite corners of a bank. Seems to me it would be better to connect to the charger to positive on one end of the bank and the negative of the other end and connect the inverter to the two opposing contacts. Seems to me you would give yourself a better chance of feeding or drawing power from the bank more equally because it would have to travel through the entire bank. In perfect world I wouldn't see any problem the way it is done here. But without intensive electrical testing there is nothing to say that resistance in the cables, connections and even the batteries themselves is equal.
I was going to post the exact same thing. Good point. Wiring your battery bank as you describe will save you headaches later!
With heavy cables, connecting at opposite sides of the battery bank provides negligible benifit. But it does not hurt, so connect that way if it concerns you. The main thing is to get a system in place now while you have time to practice with it before you need it.
Can't stress enough the importance of good chemical (not just "safety") goggles when working around sulphuric acid.
I know this is an old-ish vid... But MAN you got some one handed SKILLS !! Nice vid, thank you very much for the info.
At 4:45 he's talking about not using a longer wrench when tightening battery terminals... Guilty. I was wiring up my car stereo when I was 16. Both ends of the crescent wrench met with the posts. It turned the one post into mashed potatoes. My inline fuse was over a foot down the cable and spontaneously combusted. Cool.
Good stuff my friend these guys have never got there hands dirty yet screwed in a bolt in there lifes..they dint know crap thanks for ur video..keep up the good work....using my wifes acct..
How do you find the performance from the walmart batteries? I just bought 3 group 29 ever start max batteries for my solar set up
Divide your amp hours by 50% because your inverter is designed to cut out when your battery bank output reaches around 11 volts. In other words, your battery bank still has half it's amp hours left when your inverter cuts out. That's the problem with these systems. If the inverter manufacturers made them so you could adjust the cut out voltage down to 10 volts before it stops producing 110 volts then you would get more hours use, but with traditional batteries they would not last as long. Lithium ion batteries can be drained more and it won't affect their life as much as with lead acid.
Also, a short term startup load of some devices can cause the battery voltage to suddenly drop which can trigger the inverter to stop producing current. I know because I have had a small set up of 4 x 100 Amp hour batteries and 9 solar panels connected to a 3000 watt inverter since 2011. I used my set up to power my compressor and power saws when I build my house. I was resetting my inverter constantly. I calculated that another 8 batteries would have done the job, but at $200.00 per battery the cost is insane. Solar and battery backup isn't cheap. You can add a wind turbine for 1200.00 bucks, and that would help when you have enough wind. My system would not run a 1500 watt heater for more than 10 minutes because the voltage would drop below the tolerances of the inverter. In mid winter the solar panels would not keep up to the demand of 6 x 8 watt LED light ceiling lights in my kitchen so the batteries would run down and the inverter would kick out.
Calculate how much power you need, then multiply the number of batteries x 3....that should do the trick. Also get twice as many solar panels and be prepared to buy more. In other words, if you are purchasing 350 watt solar panels, consider that you will only get half of that from them for 6 hours a day in winter and 10 hour in summer, and you should be about right in your calculations. I'm deliberately not being overly scientific.
johnspartan98
I liked you explaination on what practically you have experienced and gained from your installed solar system.
Your information shows that these types of batteries are 50% efficient and becomes the reason to cut off inverter even half of the charge of total power is still in battery.
My question is do these batteries fully drain when DC devices are connected to charge Controller and not AC devices to inverter?
Secondly why volts are dropped in batteries while in Use? Even 1 volts drop say from 12 volts to 11 volts will make the inverter to cut off?
johnspartan98
Are you talking about the normal wear and tear of these batteries output with time of use?
@@KSYEDPK Normal wear and tear is another issue. It will depend on the quality and type of batteries, how many are in your battery bank, battery saver, type of charge controller, amount of use, etc..
I used standard 12 volt 27 series deep cycle RV/Marine batteries that you can purchase almost anywhere (like the ones used for electric trolling motors). They will last 5 to 10 years depending on how much use they get.
@@johnspartan98 what kind of panels did you use, harbor freight?
You shouldn't use marine batteries in a deep cycle application. I know they say deep cycle, don't believe it.try golf cart batteries instead, you'll be much happier.
@@johnwyman6331 All I am saying is that when the voltage drops below 11 volts your inverter will kick out. That usually happens when half the capacity of the battery is used. Are you telling me your batteries will put out over 11 volts under load when the capacity is below 50%?
A 800 watt power inverter will not run a fridge, also lets not forget that batteries create hydrogen gas when charging and is explosive. If you are going to use and store batteries indoors, use AGM solar batteries or build a battery box with a vent pipe leading to the outside.
+LMAO77598 not to mention breathing hydrogen gas laced with sulfuric acid is not good for you.
the more batteries you add its still treated as one big battery and the inverter should be connected to the first one and last one in line NOT just on first one.
well said .....
One suggestion: the inverter should better be connected to the middle battery. This avoids the pair of jumper cables connecting the second and third battery carries twice current as the one connecting first and second battery.
@@79sammyboy you can do positive on 1 battery and then negative on another at the other end
@@supremeautomotive6749 Yes, connecting Charger/Inverter to the (+) at one end and the (-) at the other end is better, but still NOT the best way!
Method #3 is BEST = www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
Nice explanation but...
If one places the negative at the bottom left battery's connector and the positive battery connector at the top right battery you get a more even and average draw from all batteries AND a more equal distribution when charging.
Also...the title says 4kh! I see far less.
Cheers.
PS. I edited because I can't spell for toffee.
I thought the same thing- if you have multiple batteries wires in series, hook the positive lead from the inverter on battery 1. Hook the negative lead from the inverter to battery 3. If you have more or less batteries, simply extrapolate. It allows for an even discharge/ recharge.
Also, if those are 300ah, you don’t have 4K usable watt hours. Ohms law:
300Ah x 12V battery bank= 3,600wh
These look like sealed AGM batteries so you don’t want to discharge below 70%
3,600 x 0.70= 2,520 usable watt hours
Not trying to nitpick- all in all great informative video!
@@papabearerickson These batteries are wired in parallel.
Great video but the numbers don't make sense. 800 watt inverter wont run a 1600watt refrigerator and if P=IxE, the math doesn't add up. However, I have a 750watt (Walmart) inverter with 2 deep cell batteries each has 125 ah available charged by 400watts solar and 1600 watt refrigerator isn't something I would hook it up to! I use it and it's great with my additional 400 watt inverter because the batteries will last much longer and the charge lasts longer. The inverter cuts out at 80% battery and most are set up that way. You have a nice system but I recommend a propane refrigerator for foods. Thanks!
+Gene Smith What fridge is 1600 watts?!
1600W is higher than I have seen. Maybe in start-up current of a commercial or very old refrigerator. Average current is much lower.
Pay no mind to these Know It Alls on here that go from channel to channel Sharp Shooting people. I think you did an outstanding job and that your just an average guy motivating others. PS I am an Engineer but I dont put people down.
Really Jim? We are talking about a disaster or loss of $$$ if something goes wrong. I agree with you if the video is on making popsicle stick bowls but not high amp circuits. So you think working with this stuff one handed while concentrating on a camera is outstanding?
Very organized explanation. So far the videos I've seen (before this one) had people setting up their battery banks with wires sticking out all over the place; very confusing to watch. This is a neat little set up. It's not rocket science to understand about the AC outlet keeping the batteries charged. All one has to do after is substitute the AC outlet to solar panels, wind turbine, etc to charge up the batteries.
Go to www.tacticalwoodgas.com, there is a video on all the charging methods, including solar.
www.tacticalwoodgas.com/online-store/Battery-Bank-with-800W-AC-Inverter-plus-solar-wall-car-charging-ports-p68927669
the vid was good, but connected in that fashion the batteries will not draw evenly. he should have attached the first inverter lead to the positive or negative of first battery and the second lead to the opposite terminal on the third battery. that way the charge and discharge hits evenly across all three batteries. that holds true no matter how many batteries you have in the bank. Also, i might point out, though his batteries were all the same, it is recommended that you buy all batteries for the bank at the same time and also buy the same model batteries so the amperage is the same for charging. another thing to point out is that those are lead acid batteries. most inverters will cut off at 10.5 volts, but if you buy AGM batteries, the voltage stays 12 ish while the amps are drawn, IE, longer run time... most of those batteries are rated in amp hours not CCA.
Kord Stone agreed the inverter should be connected across opposite ends. That is the bar minimum to even out current drawn unevenly in his demo. There is a better way
Dang! That is a good point!
I'm changing my battery wires ...NOW.
OK so I have a c class rv and want to replace my propane fridge with an all electric one. The one I'm getting only uses 64 watts and draws 0.75 amps. I want to add a 3000w inverter to also power a 20in flat tv, small sound system, small electric fireplace and microwave from time to time along with phone chargers. I'm sure that a 3ooow can handle all that, but as for the battery, I'm getting an Optima blue top marine battery. Do I need a second battery to run my fridge all day even though it does go on and off like most home fridges. Also can I tap off the alternator to charge it while running, even though it also charges the 12 volt accessory battery as well as the engine battery? Thanks.
This video is wrong people. In a battery bank you are meant to put positive at one end of bank and negative at other end so it draws and charges as one battery. By doing it like this video it is drawing the first battery down more than the others and more stress on one battery. Do not follow this video.
He did it wrong. Listen to the first two comments. They're right
Well this could work if the battery that is being drained first is a deep cycle. That way the other two would compensate and also the deep cycle would dip into danger first giving a little wiggle room to recharge. Just a thought 💭
No, he did it right.
The batteries are parallel connected so the inverter is drawing from all batteries equally.
If you keep them connected like this and you charge one battery, you charge them all.
If they were different in charge level they would exchange charge untill they would be at the same level.
Therefore you would get sparks.
👍 very thoughtful about safety
The amount of rocket scientists making comments here is astonishing
It's all good; everyone comes from a different knowledge level. I was a bit opinionated as a young engineer and mellowed over the decades.
Tactical WoodGas
I’m building out a ice cream truck and I’m very much interested to know if it’s possible to run a 30 amps and 81 LRA frozen yogurt machine and a freezer that takes under 10 amps in a battery system because a big generator is way too loud
Inverters come in various input voltages, from 12 to 48 in a common household system. you can also get an input voltage up to 240, and possibly higher. These higher voltage systems generally are for a large household or small commercial system using a net metering system and selling power back to the utility.
4 kWh not kW/h. KWh is quantity of energy, kW/h is the rate of consumption of energy.
that is Joules per second, or energy per unit time. there is no such thing as KW/h. correct me if there is.
Thank you very much bro, answered my questions. Keep posting videos.
To ensure proper charging to the batteries and to ensure the batteries are all charged equally, when connecting the charging unit, you need to connect the positive lead from the charging unit to the positive post on battery ONE. Once that is done, connect the negative lead from the charging unit to the negative post on battery THREE. Connecting the charging unit this way ensures that all three batteries are charged equally at the same time. Connecting the charging unit as you show in your video will put undue stress on battery ONE and battery ONE will receive a full charge before either of the other two batteries are charged. This produces batteries that are NOT charged equally and any given time. Positive post on battery ONE, and then negative post on battery THREE is what you should be using to achieve equally charged batteries. The batteries will also provide equal voltage and current across all three batteries this way. Otherwise, a very interesting video.
I really want to learn. I am going to have 2 batteries. Can you please tell me if I have to charge each battery first before hooking these up together?
@@Believe30 You can
Yes, connecting Charger/Inverter to the (+) at one end and the (-) at the other end is better, but still NOT the best way!
Method #3 is BEST = www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
@@MrSummitville Thanks! I will check that website out!
what trickle charging unit are you using?...and does that connect to the inverter ?
For what its worth, all wires should be as short as possible and exactly the same length.
Distance=wasted electric
All the three batteries for only a 800W? And what is the total wattage of the batteries. What I understood about those inverters, is that even if we connect ten batteies, it is not going to give more than what the inverter' capability. Am I correct?
OMG! No fuse! Where is your fuse? This guy needs to review propper solar install and safety and then remake this video. A little FYI for all those watching with no experiance.
1. You need a fuse between the inverter and battery bank, not a car fuse or stereo fuse, but a blue seas marine fuse. Blue Sea fuses when blown create no spark and are mounted right on top of the battery stud. Since the fuse creates no spark and is connected right on top of the battery, eliminates the potential for melted wiring, fire, and the possibility of a spark setting off the hydrogen gas batteries create when charging. That's why Blue Seas fuses are used on boats and enclosed spaces. Look up Blue Sea 5191 fuse block.
2. Do not install your batteries indoors unless they are AGM batteries "Absorb Glass Matt" or you have a vented battery box, with a vent tube going out side.
3. If you are going to charge phones and run some lights 800 watts should be fine. But if you plan on running a fridge, or tv or lap top, you might wanna consider a 2,000 watt pure sinewave inverter. The 2,000 watts will be enough to power a small fridge, and why pure sine wave? Pure sine wave produces clean electricity like the electricity going through your house. Using a power inverter that is not pure sine wave for tvs or computers, can damage your electronics. Most power inverters sold at department stores or your autoparts places are not pure sine wave.
+WoodsMan 4. To drain all 3 batteries you hook the POS terminal on the first battery and the NEG post on the third battery. Attaching the inverter to the same battery creates stress on that battery and will kill it faster then the other 2
that was my thought when he was connecting the inverter all the loads will be too much on the first battery and it gonna spoil the first battery quick
This is not a solar system it is a grid back up with a battery charger and circuit breakers.
The inverter is internally fused.
Sine wave inverters are only required for synchronous motors (used in industrial applications, not homes). I have powered everything I have from modified sine inverters like the one shown. No issues.
The battery boxes are vented, and hydrogen in interesting quantities is only generated under very have charge/discharge conditions, beyond the power rating of this unit.
Hello. I have a previous version of the Whistler 800w, not the Pro. Now, in Venezuela the deep cycle batteries are too expensive. I want to use 2 common car batteries 12v / 800ah. Should this work? My other question is about batteries re-charging. I always used before the inverter with a single, standalone 12v/900ah battery. It lasted 1h -1.5h to dis-charge but I never used like I saw here, the battery connected permanently with a battery charger which could supply a continuous re-charge. I have a 12v battery charger BatteryMinder 2012. Could I connect it permanently to the 2 12v/800ah batteries and use the inverter the same time? Many thabks, Florin
No no negativeiv should be hooked to 1st battery not the 3rd battery positive is hooked up correctly. Your 2nd battery will not charge correctly.please respond to me I will explain it to you.
Respond to me then. Im doing the same thing as he did
@@tt.k1794 You can check it out on other videos but basically you should connect the positive and negative to opposite ends of the bank to balance the load / charge. It still won't be perfect with more than two batteries but much better than the above.
Don't use any type of starting or marine battery. Yes they are deep cycle, but can't handle true deep cycling like a golf cart or solar battery can. You are better off using Golf Cart batteries, they are made for true deep cycling and last way longer if you treat them right. I am going on 3yrs with my golf cart batteries, and they still are strong.
think what you were trying to say was that you connected everything in parallel : positive to positive to positive and neg. to neg. to neg. if you went neg to pos. to neg to pos. to neg to pos. you would have been in series. and the voltage would not be consistent .) in parallel voltage is constant and amperage divides between loads, in series amperage is constant and voltage divides.
Hi. I've been reading lots of comments on this vid and got so involved-I see that Tactical has most of the answers-I respect that- hoping not just because he has the goods to sell.
My questions are; does it really last the solar power system???? I'm also about to upload my vid on my new rocket stove heater(hope REALLY TO HAVE TIME FOR IT.) I'm from Rome Italy and my apprmnt does not have heating system but we got saved by my rocket heater. But now I'm also interested on Solar power. Thank in advance for the answer. Good Luck and God Bless
P.s no offense on Tactical. I give respect to all of you.
i was looking for that kind of video! nice explanation! thanks!
Thought inverter leads had to go on terminals on negative on first battery and positive on last battery,notice you put inverter leads on terminals on last battery only.good vid ,thanks for the info
you are correct, should be drawing across the whole battery bank
I thought the exact same thing, if you have your batteries in series like this (hope I used the correct word), the last in the series you pull positive from, and the first in the series you pull the negative lead from. I was taught this is the only way to keep the batteries equal and extend lifespan of batteries.
@@Rocky1765 This is parallel wiring. Series would be 36V.
He's doing a parallel array ... that way it increases your amperage .. example:
3 -12v@500 amp in parallel = 12v @1500 amp
3 -12v @500 amp in series
=36v @500 amp
@@patrickmay8261 Ninja has it correct. You are mistaken in what you understood reading his post. The batteries ARE wired in parallel, but the inverter should have one connection to battery 1 positive and the other connection to battery 3 negative, rather than the inverter being wired to battery 1, and batteries 2 and 3 just hanging off battery 1. That ensures that ALL batteries supply power equally. Standard practice with multiple batteries wired in parallel.
i was searching so hard to find this exact info
thank you
basil abedallah
You're welcome! I never thought it would get 510k+ views. About 8,000 views per week.
Be sure to visit www.tacticalwoodgas.com for more off-grid power topics. I've posted a page with several interviews about our products done by The Survival Podcast, Prepper Recon, and others. Also how-to videos.
You could even wrap the end/half of your wrench in electrical tap just to be sure
Or use insulated tools like most commonly sensed people
Best not to run an inverter to just charge a phone. Get a fused cigarette lighter, and wire it to 12V. You can run things on 12V for much longer, as inverters waste a lot of energy up to 20%. So running 12V where you can, you would get at least 20% more runtime from any setup, so the same thing would apply using low power 12V caravan / RV led lights instead of 240v bulb types.
I cannot possibly see how these 3 battery's give a 4KW system.
At best in practice you would have 3 Kw system but only if you drained the batterys which are just normal car batteries enough to damage them. It would take as little as 10 Cycles to 3 KW hr to stuff these batteries beyond any usefulness. To avoid that and be able to use the things a worthwhile amount of times, you would not want to pull more than about 1.5Kw hr out of them.
The inverter will be pulling over 70A at full load. At that current the battery voltage will drop below the inverters low voltage cutout well before it gets to the 100AH capacity level even if the batts are 120Ah. The capacity of the batterys would be calculated at the C20 rate which on these batterys would be about 5A (100/20=5). The other rating of the battery's which would be a lot closer but still lacking would be the reserve capacity which is rated at a 25A draw. You are still going to fall a long way behind that calculation drawing 3 times that rating. 250W is going to give you something to the reserve capacity so it may be better to figure on this draw.
Do not depend on 4 kwh because you are never going to get that from this setup.
+Oil Burner yes this video is wrong in so many ways. Its a shame people listen to bad videos like this. 4kw lol and inverter is hooked up to the same battery. With any luck he will go watch some good videos and learn something. then remake this one. with the right information and wiring.
+Oil Burner 12.6v * 120Ah = 1512 watts * 3 batteries = 4536 watts or 4.5 kWh total. Useful watts 2.25 kWh to 50% depth of charge (12.2v) or 3.4 kWh to 75% depth of charge (12.0v), wouldn't go any lower than 12.0v
+Rw Krause I think these are normal automotive batterys. If they are not deep cycle, they would be killed very quick at 75% capacity Discharge. Even 50% would give them a working life of probably less than a year. Normal automotive batteries are not meant to be discharged more than 25% of full capacity.
One could look up the specs on these batteries if interested enough but given the labels of " Every start" and being a walmart battery, I'm reasonably sure they are normal automotive start batteries ( and probably not the best quality out there) not meant for more than 25% discharge in cyclic use.
In this application that gives them around 1.5Kw capacity to maintain best working life. Of course that is new and optimal capacity. A year in they won't be doing near that and fading more as time goes by.
I agree, you are correct in everything you have said but these are marine/RV batteries as indicated by the dual post configuration and common RV size of 24/27/31. some are considered dual purpose (starting/deep cycle) with medium thick plates some are rated deep cycle (usually group 31) with heavy plate construction. He is running group 31 marine batteries because his battery boxes are the universal size and the batteries fill the boxes completely. You can tell the boxes are 31's by the partitioning slots in one end allowing the use of 24/27/31 by moving a partitioning wall in side the box which he has removed due to the size of the group 31 battery. We sell East Penn MFG batteries and our group 31 is a true deep cycle with a rating of 105 Ah. In his configuration our batteries would supply approximately 3969 watts with 2976 watts available down to 12.0v. Note this is just information for the general public, I replied to your post because it was at the top.
Rw Krause Yep, all good mate. A lot of people don't know about batteries at all so hopefully we have given some people interested in this bit of a heads up on what they may not have been aware of.
I recently bought some lipo packs that were specced at a certain rating for a specific job i had and when they arrived they were far short of what they had been promoted at. Luckily it was an honest mistake and the seller was happy to give me extra to make up the specified rating.
It's important to have some basic knowledge of these things when playing around with them as one could be thinking they are covered for something and come up very short when they went to use it.
Honesty you are the best I have been looking for a video like this one you have nailed it. Thank you sooooooo much I can actually do this on my own. You definitely have a new subscriber. Thanks
Well, you're HALF right.
You say you have 340AH.
If you use / go past HALF ( 175) you will DAMAGE your batteries.
Right lol lithium is the way to go if you have the money that is.
You should have the inverter connected to the + and - terminals of the batteries at each end of the bank.
Quick question from a newbie! Doesn't this method result in "unbalanced charging/draining"? ie, the first battery in the system will drain more quickly and charge more quickly. Doesn't this put more strain on the first battery?
Yes absolutely !! You are correct. As I explained to the to another guy above... It's hard explain it to everyone, and then I found another guys video explaining it, so now I don't have too !! And how you should ALWAYS balance charge your batteries !! so here's the link again for you. Please forward on to everyone else who needs it !!
Happy charging !! ruclips.net/video/oOEqnCrxPYg/видео.html
No, absolutely not
its 4AWG wire, its resistance is unmeasurable across 4 FEET
Hi There, great setup. trying to make one up myself but question I have is after you hookup the battery charger and start it up will the power inverter draw power direct from charger instead of battery?
+Nos Dehgan He set up a power back up ; the charger keeps it topped off ; for when power does fail . It's not constantly being used.
Do you have any video were you actually plug fridge stove and air conditioning unit and can I plug this to 100 Solar panel? Thanks
It's how much plz
Sir,
I think you made a mistake connecting the wires for the power inverter.
The cables shouldn't be connected the way you did. You should draw power from the far right end bottom positive side of the battery to the top negative side of the battery bank.
This will let you utilize the battery bank evenly instead of draining one battery and ruin the entire battery bank.
Please checkout my google+ to see alot of diagrams and how to wire 12V, 24V 48V battery banks in series, Parallel and Series Parallel
for the love of god...invest $12 in a camera tripod mate.....
Thanks, I've done that.
This guy is awesome he gave me some info I know but WOW he taught me gave me a better idea for what I need. Thank you sir
No he don’t know anything about what he doing it’s all wrong
Sigh, you mean a 4 kwh battery bank not a 4kw/h battery bank... It makes a difference to us engineers.
I need some help as I am a total beginner to all this.Well I want to power something constantly which will use up about max 3-4K watts.
I want to use this battery setup to power it but I am wondering how many watts does it take to, for example charge these 3 batteries?
Another thing is how long would this set up last without the car battery charger? For example u used up all the possible wattage?
And is there a way that the batteries will charge themselves so that I don't need any input except car battery and inverter?
Very good question you took that from my mouth i just wondering how long this set up can serve
If you mean 3k watt-hours, you will need five batteries in parallel. Just like the video except 5 batteries.
I would have chosen at least a 2000 watt invertor to be able run a refrigerator a light and a radio.....800 watt will not start a refrigerator. Minimum 1500 watts alone for that with nothing else hooked up at fridge start up normally 1500 watt start and 800 watt run or there abouts....
....
Nice video very clear and to the point. Thank you.
You need to hook positive at one end of your bank and negative at the other end of your bank both inverter and charger so you're battery bank current is equal throughout or you will overwork your battery bank unequally. Remember path of least resistance.
That's what I was thinking he's wired it wrong
Yup this guy is wrong lol
How long (time) do you get on certain appliances? Can you give me some examples?
How come you didn't hook up your inverter connections to both outside batteries as in neg on one and positive on the other. That way the draw is equal on all batteries.
You are right, that is the technically correct way to connect the charger and the load. Put the equipment containing battery box lid on the center battery, and span the whole bank with their conductors.
@@rpbajb Actually, connecting Charger/Inverter to the (+) at one end and the (-) at the other end is better, but still *NOT* the best way!
Method #3 is BEST = www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
I don't think your inverter is strong enough to run a fridge. Most fridges will take over 1000 watts to cold start. And if you use a modified square wave type inverter many AC induction motors won't run properly and modified square wave inverters will likely shorten the life span of ANY fridge motor. I recommend at least 1200 watts for a fridge (startup) and use a sine wave inverter... fyi... regards...
Sir where can I purchase all this equipment it would be very nice if you could send me a list of the things you used so I can purchase it in case my lights go out again I would really appreciate it thank you
It is available at www.tacticalwoodgas.com
Hello. Will there not be any fumes inside the battery boxes?
Not for the power rating of this unit.
You should have hooked up positive to battery 1 and negative to battery 3
thankyou
Why? It makes no difference. The connectors are so thick it just doesn't matter! The charging/ discharging rate will be identical on all batteries.
@@GabbrEL your right especially on 12 volt I called a solar company and 12 volt batteries aren't like 6 volt in series.
@@GabbrEL It does make a difference especially on low voltage, high current. those thick cables DO have resistance, therefore you need to connect diagonally.
@David Goble..... and wired as one battery in all respects, taking into consideration the (minute) differences in resistance (and volt drops) of the connecting cables.In time, the battery nearest to the inverter drains the most of the three the way the connections are shown.
Nice! You could connect the positive to the 1st battery, and the negative to the 3rd battery... and the opposite for the inverter, thus avoiding the 1st battery being overused... even in parallel the charge is incoming and outgoing from the 1st battery... isn't it? Just curious!
Your absolutely correct on that the charge needs to come from opposite ends in order for batteries to b charged fully and same goes for inverter hookup,, opposite ends so it draws thru batt bank equally or u will end up killing that first battery alot quicker than other two!,, good eye, was about to post until I saw yours!!
Rodrigo Boos I have two house batteries in my rv and I know they are connected negative to positive, if I get a small 750w/1500peak watts converter can I hook it up to just one house battery? Or should I connect to engine battery or just plug adapter into cig lighter? (New at this, thanks for your patience)
shelleyfunny19 House batt. Dont want to flatten the engine batt. I assume your house batt is connected to some sort of charge system. If you use the cig lighter socket then that will more than likely be rigged to the engine batt. Also a solid connection to the batt is better than a cig lighter connection.
What do you do for the hydrogen gas that is given off from the batteries?
You make sure the enclosure is vented and in a well circulated area. Even at ground level hydrogen is in the air everywhere.
What do you do about your cars battery releasing hydrogen?
@@acehoe7750 When my car charges the battery I am driving down the road not inside a building.
@@donaldsmith3048 So it’s vented and in a well circulated area !
@@acehoe7750 Other that Hydrogen gas it also has sulfuric acid in the gas. That can destroy things. It also very bad for your health! I have been around enough to know that OHSA requires forced ventilation when there are lead acid battery are used. There is lead, sulfuric acid and Hydrogen put out from them. Take your own risks! It is your own health! You may not need to go by there rules. But maybe think about why they have them. Lead Acid batteries cost more money and need care all the time. LiFePo4 batteries cost less over time, need no care, deliver more power! You will go through 3 or 4 sets of Lead Acid batteries and only use only one LiFePo4! But You do what every you want! That is what is good about a Free Country!
@@donaldsmith3048 Actually overcharging can produce hydrogen sulfide which is poisonous. If you smell rotten eggs, shut it down! Always check that your charger is shutting off when the battery is fully charged! I worked on oil platforms and installed/maintained large battery banks with dedicated rooms with forced air ! You are correct! I understand the need to take precautions with many batteries in one area but with one or two I don’t see it.
You are correct we are still free! It’s nice to have civil conversation and form our own opinions. I didn’t mean to be rude, just voicing my opinion and trying to educate others but I see you are already knowledgeable! God bless.
hi would it be beater to charge each battery separate with an auto disconnect and reconnect when charged