Game Companies vs Emulation | SEGA, SONY & NINTENDO
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 сен 2023
- Nintendo, Sony, and SEGA have been fighting against emulation for the longest time. Today I plan to look back at the history of Emulation, how it all began, how it was taken down and it's future!
💕 Patreon: bit.ly/37yWxjx
💞 RUclips Member: bit.ly/313TGg3
💖 Stream Donation Link: bit.ly/2uBw9a6
👕 Buy a T-Shirt: bit.ly/37veE9X
🕹️Play Asia affiliate link: bit.ly/36xyu3b
---
📱 Follow me on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook linktr.ee/slopesgameroom
🤖 Discord: / discord
---
🔴 Subscribe: goo.gl/0cmnO6
🔴 2nd Channel: goo.gl/MDskmO
🌐 Website: slopes.site
📧 Contact me: hello@slopesgameroom.com
---------------
Emulation is something we all dabbled with... no come on... be honest!
Did you know that SEGA's Yuji Naka was the 1st ever person to create emulator (that we know of)
This video gives a timelined history int the world of emulation. hope you like it :D
---------------
⌛ The Complete History Series…
goo.gl/CMCMvQ
The ultimate in-depth documentary look at all your favourite gaming franchises such as... Metroid, Streets of Rage, Shinobi, Strider, Metal Slug, Parappa the Rapper, Toejam & Earl, Earthworm Jim. Space Harrier, Jet Set Radio, Crash Bandicoot, Grand Theft Auto, Final Fight and many many more
---------------
⌛ The Kick-Scammer Series...
goo.gl/BB7DyX
Join us as we look into some of the very worst Kickstarter and Indiegogo campaigns ever!
---------------
⌛ Random Video Games Fact Series…
goo.gl/eJwsYP
The Strangest Video Game Facts found on RUclips
---------------
⌛ Quickshot Series...
goo.gl/r32WH7
Random bite-sized gaming facts
#Bleem #SEGA #Nintendo #SONY #Emulation 
Игры
Game Preservation am I right? but what about Retro Gaming Documentary preseravtion? Well, lucky for you, I just released SEGA: The Complete History on blu-ray, check it out right here... vinegarsyndrome.com/collections/etr-media/products/slopes-game-room-sega-the-complete-history-vol-1
Together for the 1st time on Blu-ray, we have 10 of my most popular documentaries based around SEGA's most recognisable IPs.
Here are some of the features...
-Exclusive re-edits, re-recordings and re-captures for some of the older videos found in this compilation.
-Exclusive introductions and commentaries for each entry, plus an exclusive guest commentary too
-Over an hour of special features
-Animated menus for each game that showcase the history of every title
-Reversible box art created by the legendary Zombie Workshop
(the reverse not seen here should please Master System fans)
-Reversible slipcover that changes the theme from NTSC to PAL
And, finally, for those quick enough to get the slipcover (almost 200/1000 have sold in the last hour) you may find a hidden message inside that will help you unlock all of this blu-ray's easter eggs!
Grab your copy here & thanks again for the support
vinegarsyndrome.com/collections/etr-media/products/slopes-game-room-sega-the-complete-history-vol-1
Interesting you mentioned that because on the mega everdrive Pro you can actually play Nintendo games on your Sega Genesis or mega drive of course if you had the Sega nomad you need to hook up the segaCD sound ...... I wonder if that's the same emulator krikzz is using on that
I want a Slope Hub to exist
Like my discord?
The other thing is, there's people like me who for various reasons move a lot. It's just not practical for me to collect a lot and so to have games digitally available forever is the only reasonable choice. As you say, you can't rely on online stores.
Emuparadise loved retro games and just wanted to share them!
.....those retro brand new Switch games.
We can argue a few benefits of illegal roms, but there needs to be a balance, as the Dreamcast proved. Without any copy protection, a games console will sink.
At least Emulation helps with preserving older games 😅
Does Nintendo see that? No, even though they have their own emulation system for the Switch Online
@@ChaseMC215hmm so they’re hypocrites 😅
I remember hearing that they downloaded a ROM and resold it to the public, so even they need to admit that emulation isn't all bad
@@JargonMadjinthat was the Nintendo mini, I believe
Especially those one and done licensed games! No Barbie game on the GBA have been officially re-released to this day.
I have to contest that the take down of the major sites only catapulted emulation even further into the mainstream (and alternatives to those sites that where just as big already existed) and overall it's even easier now to find roms and in fact it's even easier to get a whole company's library from inception to today.
They literally lost complete control to the point that it's not even seen as piracy anymore, and those company's are seen as the bad guy's not the people hosting roms or the people in general reliving their childhood's ect~
I've backed up my games since the PS1, and I will get any game that I owned and did not resell for emulation no matter who think's the thing I brought is somehow not mine because of time or format.
You own a physical copy of the game but the game itself is just an idea, and nobody can truly own an idea
@@fenixlolnope361 Wrong. The games are hours, no days, weeks or even months of work for lots of people. Games are not just ideas like philosophical bullshit you can sell for free in public. When the emulation scene was as hidden place for gaming nerds to meet and discuss the past, it was still kinda cool. But now every dumb kid wants to play every game for free. That's all emulation has come down to.
The excuse of "game preservation" is outdated. Teenagers without a life have no rights to preserve anything or do not even understand the legal aspects of that.
Playing games for free is not about preservation.
@@niemand7811 stop simping for multi billion dollar companies. Games from the last century don’t deserve the creator to get paid jack shit 30 years later. We’re not talking about current generation games here and game piracy, but for the record that makes the industry a better place too. Just go buy some more games on the Nintendo eshop and keep your broke takes to yourself
@@niemand7811 playing games for free is about being based and not a paypig lmfao
@@niemand7811 god I know it’s been a whole day but I read your comment again at it just seems even more pathetic. I hate sharing a planet with all these simps. I bet your bosses boots are your favorite flavor.
Emulation is preservation, and it is a given fact because of the trend of all companies going digital in a near future. Many games have become abandonware or cease to exist. The work we do ensures that future generations can access this cultural products.
That's like stealing someone's classic car to show it off bc they don't use it enough lol u I get yur point tho
@jcruz5050 No, because in that example the owner of the car no longer has his car. These are copies.
@@jcruz5050I would say it's more akin to a barn find or an abandoned car that was restored or restomodded . 😉
well sure, if the car was deposited at the dump, that would be a perfect analogy,@@jcruz5050
Piracy is not preservation
Once anything hits the Internet, it's never really gone. Rom sites still exist, but during the "purge" of rom sites . I downloaded everything I needed on multiple hard drives. Generations of games. But good video
It's hilarious because there where already thousands of site for roms.. as well as torrent aggregate sites. They literally did nothing but make more people aware that emulation existed.
@@CoalCoalJamesdon't forget sites that emulate the games in browser too.
Some ROMs you can't buy the game even.
yep this is why preservation is so important
Yeah dude, fucking Megaman X3 to buy a physical copy of is just nuts. Then there's the collections and stuff, which imo are a bit too late.
The games industry is the absolute worst when it comes to old titles. Imagine if the only way to watch Die Hard at home was on VHS. People would find another way to watch their beloved movie. If game companies don’t want people emulating, they need to make wayyyy more of their older titles available, in a similar way to how a huge amount of old movies and music are readily available on modern media.
That would be where game streaming would be the best option; just have a video game version of Spotify that has every video game older than a certain date, say, 20-25 years, then at the end of every year, update the available catalog with the games that reached the threshold in that year.
@@Dargonhuman
If you want disgusting input delay maybe.
And even if they make the old games available, they charge a full AAA price for them. Ive seen Earthbound in the WiiU Nintendo eShop for $60,-.
@@Dargonhumanstreaming will never be practical. Most people don't have good enough internet.
They never will though... As they want us consuming what they want us to consume! God forbid a Younger Generation ever discover just how great R-Type was and still could be!!! NO! Todays Generation need FPS Games, Competitive Fighters, MOBA's and Battle Royales... Not because they want them, but because the industry says they want them!
Don't forget the part where the Wii/Wii U/3DS eshops are no longer active... at least not to new purchases as far as I'm aware. There's been a movement started on this whole preservation thing getting companies to take notice of this sorta thing. I think my favorite take on giving folks access to the retro content like they were talking about so far, has to be antstream! 1400 games for $30USD a year was a pretty sweet deal. Wish more companies would sign on but most of them are just doing their own thing.
For those of us who are smart enough to backup our data, our purchases on those shops are still perfectly preserved and playable.
It is nice to see whenever some of the games that were previously exclusive to those services get re-released for a new audience, though.
Dang I had no idea emulation went back this far. That's wild!
I was playing pokemon red/blue on my PC when it was first released on GB (at lest in my region) and trading between my own virtual machines... dumping saves back onto carts then trading my mates all the best pokemon (I was to young for cheats) so I did it that way lol.
I still have fond memories of Irc groups and finding the newest ps1 games months or years before they where available in my country (and yes I did buy the ones I liked).
I brought vagrant story and FF9 after tying them as burnt discs first. Same with alot of my fav ps2 games.
I'm actually surprised it only went back that far. I could have sworn it went all the way to the foundations of hacking (like when hackers would scam phone companies for free long distance calls).
Emulation goes as far back as the 1960s. The variety of hardware, especially pre-90s has meant there’s always been legitimate need for finding ways of running software written for one system on another.
For gaming it picked up significantly when 16bit computers came along. People upgrading to their shiny new STs and Amigas still wanted to play their old Commodore 64 and ZX Spectrum games.
And this is only emulation for the purpose of gaming. Emulating computing devices on other computing devices goes further back.
Look at the Arcade games of X-Men, Simpsons or AvP! Good luck figuring the rights holders on those properties...
😂 Say it louder for the people in the back!
X-Men and the Simpsons are owned by Konami with Character rights owned by Marvel for X-men and Disney for the Simpsons. That's really easy. AVP I think is owned by Fox and the game was done by Capcom. Those games could be re-released if they came to an agreement with the IP rights holders. Konami really isn't heavily invested in their older games as much - they did the Cowabunga collection which required a license from a third party so they could talk to Disney, but they probably have no interest as one off titles don't make much money. The closest we have to the Simpsons game being out is the Arcade 1Up machines out there but those are more seen like toys than re-releases. The last time The X-Men and Simpsons had a console release was back in the PS3/Xbox 360 era and they were fairly pricey and weren't huge sellers IIRC. That gives companies little incentive to spend a huge amount of time and money securing legal rights and investing in development resources if they aren't going to guarantee a good return.
@@purelogarithmDisney bought Fox, remember? So they, too, own Aliens and Predator franchise. Confused yet?
I remember when I was a kid in the 90's and early 2000's when emulators on PC became massive. Happy times!
VIMM comes to mind, and he's still around and even bigger.
Oh Yeah! 😂
After a decade of paying big money for slowed down, POS 50Hz versions of games in Europe, the discovery of emulators was an absolute game-changer. Never had the slightest moral dilemma with it. The only era when the games I emulated were also actually sold in retail was the early 2000s (GBA and PS1 games), but when it comes to PS1, I mostly emulated games that I had already bought as shitty 50Hz versions.
One thing I hate is that those who don't emulate always assume that we use save states and a keyboard to play. No, and another thing we don't use is a compromised, stretched-to-4:3 aspect ratio. Anyway, without emulators, I definitely wouldn't be playing games today (which might be better for myself, but still).
My thoughts exactly. Well said.@@Steambull1
Still have everything backed up. We were smart
Had it not been for emulation there's hundreds of games i would have never tried or would have never played again after only playing them once at some arcade i could never go again as a kid.
Back then, being part of the emulation scene was being part of the Fight Club. We don't talk about Fight Club.
Real talk, the more mainstream emulation got, the more controversial it became. :/ Like putting aside all legality, morality, preservation etc. I just want to play the games from my past as well as discover ones I never got to play.
This.
People like mutahar (no hate) who use their platform to advocate for emulation are not helping. There will be a point where the big companies have enough and fight it seriously. And with the changes in the US political landscape, especially the goddamn supreme court, they might even have some chance.
Agreed. I hate how emulation developers are trying to get their emulators on main stream stores now. All that has done is poked a hornet's nest. Keep them underground.
A lot of people seem to forget the first rule of fight club when it comes to discussing ROM sites tbh. In this comments section alone, I've seen multiple mentions of sites I use and I'm just like no wtf are you doing stop being a snitch
Then make sure you keep your past games and systems and discover new ones through legal means while accepting that you'll never be able to play everything you want.
Emulation and ROM piracy is a really tricky subject since, while these companies are well within their legal rights to send C&D's to any site they find distributing their ROMs, the sad fact is that the overwhelming majority of these ROMs are not available legally for modern platforms; For every Super Mario Bros there's a Devil World, Low G Man, Ultimate Stuntman, Dr. Chaos, Xexyz that might never see a rerelease, and even doubly so if you're talking licensed games like Little Nemo: The Dream Master, Disney's Adventures in the Magical Kingdom, Gremlins 2, The Three Stooges. Then you got games from companies that have long since went defunct, it's still illegal to distribute those games, but no one's around to legally distribute them anymore!
As for how we can solve this? I see two options: The least likely is serious reform to terms of copyright. I don't know about copyright laws abroad, but in the US it is roughly, (a headache because it depends on who, but for simplicity's sake, I'll say) 95 years. Almost a century! That is WAY too long for something to remain copyrighted as too much media can fall through the cracks of the archives of whoever owns the copyright and you also can't trust a company will be around for 95 years. And it didn't used to be this long either. The term used to be a still lengthy, but not ungodly so 55 years, and before that I believe the term was 20-25 years. I'd say that that is long enough for someone to make money before a work's sales fall off. Now I doubt lawmakers would ever shorten copyright terms at all let alone rolling them back to their original lengths, but I'd say they should be short enough that retro games can be safely preserved and distributed by anyone rather than being gatekept by overly litigious companies like Nintendo.
The other, more likely solution would be library reforms: creating a system that allowed libraries to purchase and distribute classic titles online the way they can with books. Currently, the only way you can play video games a library owns is if you physically play them on site, meaning if your library doesn't have any games or not the title you're looking for, you're shit outta luck. Since this is the avenue the Video Game History Foundation is actively perusing, this is currently the best solution even if it may still leave many games floating in limbo if they can't be obtained.
Until then, those of us who want to play these lost gems, (and don't have the thousands of dollars to spend on eBay), will have to don the old black hat and eyepatch. Yarr! 🏴☠
Changing copyright laws isn't going to happen nor is library reforms for pretty much the dame reasons - the publishers have way too much influence on things. The Big problem is that any changes made, would have to be done globally for it to have any effect - that alone makes changes less likely to happen period. First, nobody in any position of authority is highly motivated to change the status quo, but let's say you change things in the US, well how is that going to help things if Japan bans it?
But realistically, IP laws are how companies operate and make tons of money and governments aren't interested in getting in the way of them doing that.
@ShanetheFreestyler Many of the Defunct Companies, their IP's are now owned by other companies... IE: Gremlin Graphics who are still around in some form but no longer making games.... Their IP's are all owned by EA Games! Rare who were once ULTIMATE PLAY THE GAME... Owned by Microsoft so near enough all their old IP's are also owned by Microsoft!
I would be happy to pay Subscription as long as all the classic games worked as good as they did on Original Hardware... If SEGA could get STAR WARS TRILOGY ARCADE working perfectly on Emulation, I would be happy to pay a Subscription fee to SEGA lets say...
... Or as you said, A library of sorts... Or a Subscription based service where every companies classic games on all platforms is available for a Small fee each month! Like AntStream do right now! Do something like that where every possible ROM over 20 years old is available for every system and everyone gets a fair cut!
The problem is these companies would not be happy with a fair cut or sharing space with a Competitor!
@@purelogarithm Unfortunately, you're dead on the money with an emphasis on "money"! The reasons copyrights last as long as they have is because of nonstop lobbying by corporations so they can keep an iron grip of their IP as long as they can and give nothing to the Public Domain many of them drew their original inspiration from, like Disney for example.
@@Phoenix2312 Exactly. If they can't make a considerable profit off of their property, (at least double the expense of rereleasing the game,) then they won't do it at all and leave it all locked up in their vault.
Another issue I didn't touch on would be alternate versions of classic games. from the 8 and 16 bit eras where arcade games would see ports on several different platforms with numerous differences. More often than not, these days only the arcade originals see rerelease and not the home version. Sure the arcade original may have had better graphics and sounds, but sometimes the home version would have more stages. Or maybe you're just nostalgic for a specific version of the game; say you'd rather play the Commodore 64 or ZX Spectrum version of Ghosts and Goblins rather than the arcade or NES versions because that was the one you grew up on. I personally find it interesting how different platforms handled these titles.
Neither of those will work. Too much corporate influence on government. The solution is to make ROM/ISO archives into something like The Pirate Bay, where it's so incredibly easy to set up a replacement there's no point in trying to shut it down.
The fact that 87% of all video games are unavailable to purchase on modern consoles is absolutely depressing.
I think that if a company makes something unavailable to purchase, without having to go to third parties and paying exorbitant prices, I believe that the customer should have the right to be able to play these games, through whatever means, since the companies aren't making money on the games anymore anyways.
Some companies don't care at least. Like Commodore 64 is open season. They even made the C64 mini to play C64 roms.
Also the fact that virtual console and modern stuff, does not allow you to use the game on original hardware like the original console or what if I want to play the game on a CRT, which I currently do with a PC connected to it. I have an external drive with all the retro games I like. Where I live it is "legal" to download, not to upload, though. I mean, I did download the games using torrent, so basically I uploaded too :D
Public opinion is getting better at least. It's getting fairly rare to hear someone who doesn't share this opinion. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with people who disagree, that's absolutely their opinion and the law is.....well it's the law.
But when there's literally no other way to play a game, one thats arguably in danger of being lost to time? Then the law's kinda failing us in that case, and I get REAL flexible in those situations.
That's why you shouldn't dump your old systems just because something new and shiny has been released.
Meanwhile, even if money is no longer being made on it, you still don't have the right to free entertainment as long as it's not yet in the public domain. Also, you never know just when the next old game will be re-released after all.
@@CalaTec I don't know about current systems, but both the Wii and Wii U with the Virtual Console are perfectly playable on a CRT as long as it supports component cables. Heck, the Wii doesn't support HD in the first place.
as long as games are mostly abandoned by companies, emulation will always be the answer to that.
I briefly joined a site for old school point and clicks. You wouldn't believe the vitriol I and other people got for suggesting emulating games. These games are abandonware! There's literally no other way to play them other than buying off Ebay or wherever because like he said they just aren't in production anymore and therefore developers won't make any money.
I had to leave that group lol
well that group probably believes that emulation prevents a resurgence of point and clickers. the problem is point and clickers just arent going to resurge, they were done to death during their time. not saying that you'll never see another point and clicker, but it will require a lot of creativity to make one that is somewhat popular. but yeah, you're better off not in that group, i'm not paying some reseller douche hundreds of dollars to play abandonware. no shot XD@@mattjames6349
The first person that I can recall that emulated retro games (not saying that no one else did so before), was Rebecca Heinaman A.K.A. Burger Becky using a modded APPLE II to run Atari VCS games. She's worth talking to about this. I highly suggest that you do so.
Nintendo is the reason I put all my collections on a drive and give the links out to people.
Not all heroes wear capes.
Emulation is sorta part and parcel with computing. Emulators were and have always been extremely important for programmers to target a system they don't have reliable access too.
To me emulation is all about art preservation. Going out and buying an old, likely overpriced console along with overpriced old games is just not feasible for many people, including myself, and that's assuming the used consoles and games are even available for purchase at all. For example, the only way for me to play Blood Will Tell on the PS2 is either to hunt down a used PS2 along with the game for a lot of money, or just download a PS2 emulator and playing it near-perfectly replicated on my PC. The choice could not be more obvious.
I always wondered where the misconception "it's okay to emulate if you delete it within 48 hours" started.
that persisted for quite a while. I heard it referenced even years later.
When I was a kid a notepad file would come along with the rom with that written and the first times I thought the files would expire or stop working after 48h but once I noticed nothing happened I learned it was just a suggestion to get rid of the file after it
The same place as “you can make backup copies”, “it’s okay to download if you have a physical copy”, “Abandonware”, and the latest side splitter “software preservation” came from.
The little lies we tell ourselves to legitimatise our hobby.
The same goes for pirated games. They are meant to be just tested and tried out, before going out and buying a legal copy. And of course, to show off crackers knowledge in process.
But how many people actualy do that? I'd say 5%.
I think that notion came from the ambiguous way that the Copyright law is written... For most REFERENCE MATERIALS, In the way of Printed Works, there was a rule within copyright that you could make use of any Printed Materials you could acquire by any means as long as they were not kept if found online... And a rule of thumb was 48 hours! So it is something that started as "University Study Aids"
I also feel many emulation sites or people creating ROMS wanted to treat what they were doing as a "Lending Library" - And to do that they had to have some kind of rules in place! The issue with ROMS is people can just LIE!
Would it have helped if a file did have a self destruct code??? Perhaps, but then some Hackers would have removed it and set their own site up...
@@linuxretrogamer I'm fairly certain backup copies are not illegal to make, just to distribute.
Boy, there was a lot more to all of this than I previously knew! Thanks for another information filled video! I always learn something new from your amazing content!
Great vid! Keep up the good work!!
Mob rule is going to win. Companies like Nintendo are selling their products for just a few years before abandoning them, and publishers do the same. In many cases, intellectual property is completely abandoned within 10 years. People continue to not tolerate that, and they continue to not tolerate rented content at full retail price or content that can be bought and then turned off on the customer. Before these companies can summon their lawyers, they should be legally required to first release details on how they have made efforts to maintain sales of that product. If they are fighting over abandoned products and IP, the cases need to be thrown out of court with heavy fines. Copyright law needs to be entirely rewritten to ensure our cultural history isn't lost inside of a generation over shitbag companies refusing to sell their products, only to pretend like their company has been hurt when other people are happy to circulate them. Copyright law needs to be "use it or lose it," not this bullshit 100 years of corporate rule nonsense.
How long would you say they should have to use it?
@@Nick_Nightingale For large companies that have the resources to keep products in circulation, something around 5-10 years seems reasonable. That would give companies enough time to develop an idea and bring it to market, or to rework an idea (like adapting a video game to new hardware). For non-corporate assets, maybe 20 years or something, since it could take someone time to independently bring something to market, and that after 20 years, it's basically not going to happen. So something like Lord of the Rings, which has been consistently available, would still be under copyright, whereas most video games and TV shows would be in danger of becoming public domain because ownership has abandoned them.
@@ScooterinAB I would love a new/updated Gyromite from the NES days. Nintendo has no interest. If another company could do it... GREAT!
Um, no, purchased digital games have not been "turned off" on customers. You simply have to buy them (and download any patches) while available, and then they're all yours. Just keep your data backed up, and don't be stupid enough to abandon your old systems whenever you get a new one. Even if you have to replace the console, you're allowed to contact the company and reclaim your digital catalog for free.
You also highly underestimate how many old games are re-released on the current systems these days.
@@Compucles You really need to open your eyes if you think digital purchases aren't being lost. This is well documented.
Who else remembers downloading a pack of 100s of SNES roms and finding out some of them were not really games but hentai pixel porn? Teenager me was totally not happy about it...
Back in the mid-00s when I was in high school, someone, I don't know who (cough cough), added a giant folder full of retro game roms and emulators to my school's main network storage folder. It was meant to be a network folder that students could access their documents from any PC in the school. But, instead the whole student body ended up discovering emulation. It was neat seeing people who normally weren't into gaming get into playing a lot of classic NES and SNES titles. I knew a lot of people who never really had any consoles, let alone internet growing up finally getting to enjoy a Nintendo console for the first time through emulating them during their free time at school.
Awesome vid! The first time I ever played an emulator was on Pitfall The Mayan Adventure, it had an emulation of the original Atari 2600 Pitfall as an Easter egg in the game. First emulator I downloaded though was Nesticle though. A lot of my favorite retro games like River City Ransom and Gunstar Heroes I would have never played without emulation.
nesticle was nice but i likes zsnes better
Nesticle was so cool. It had so much character, you don't see stuff like that anymore
Hear me out, this is a wild idea. But how about nintendo just sell their old products.
They have the NSO which is the way they have chosen to distribute their products. That is their choice as copyright holders (they actually do sell some of their arcade games on the eShop). They have no interest in supporting community based emulation as they want you to buy their hardware and play their titles there.
Honestly? a massive issue is the copywrite laws themselves.
I think the distribution rights for games and films over 20 years old shouldn't be held by anyone.
even if the characters and intellectual property are maintained by the company, it's silly to think they are milking money out of a game that is 2 decades old.
and in the case they are NOT milking it... well... then it's just lost media, which is inexcusable in the digital era. it's lose lose.
This is the real issue. Alas the likes of Disney and Nintendo have very deep pockets to lobby governments and prevent sensible and fair copyright legislation.
Going back and revisiting the Statute of Queen Anne is very telling on what the original intent/spirit of copyright law was.
And the issue touches on “Abandonware” - there being no such thing.
The copyright to every game not expressly released into the public domain, no matter how old (yes even Fairchild Channel F games) belong to someone somewhere.
Though if ever fought in court perhaps some argument may succeed around previous failure to protect their copyright - which is the real reason Nintendo goes after the likes of LoveRoms.
Perhaps the solution is for the game loving emulation community to actively pursue, lobby, and campaign copyright holders to release bygone titles into the Public Domain?
Perhaps we should club together and maintain a web resource of legally downloadable Rom files?
I remember a site for Amiga games that tried to do just that called “Back To The Roots” and I believe the ZX Spectrum site “World Of Spectrum” may of had a similar policy.
How would you compare that argument to movies or books?
@@catsaregovernmentspiesI’d suggest that different media has different copyright requirements. The pace the video gaming industry turns over is incredibly fast and copyright really should reflect that. Legally playing a 30 year old game is needlessly far more challenging than watching a 30 year old movie, reading a 30 year old book, listening to a 30 year old song, or viewing a 30 year old painting.
Why are you entitled to dictate what someone else does with work they create. Grow up
@@gilbes1139 you are right, Walt Disney would be so sad if we used mickey mouse. or maybe Jack Kirby would call us out for preserving Thor comics?
These works have been around for decades, iterated on, bought, sold... and disappeared from legal distribution. Also, don't tell people to grow up, it's kind of rude, and doesn't actually make your opinion more attractive.
There was often the idea that if you owned the physical copy, it was okay to download the rom. Though it has always been illegal. I wonder if these early emulators and the roms were not made available, would Nintendo even bothered creating the virtual console? Or would the SNES/NES classic Mini exist? The underground rom scene is still alive and won't die.
The answer is no. They only existed because Nintendo realized they can keep reselling you games you already own. Had emulation not been a thing, they would have abandoned those products and moved on.
There have been some evidences that Nintendo uses code of publically available emulators, and even some ROM headers match with those you can download in ROM sites.
They could've done what they did before, just port the games. Take the game's code and built it to make it work on another machine. They did this with the GBA ports of NES and SNES games. But this takes too much effort, since you have to do this for every single game.
Without emulation, the Virtual Console could have existed, but it would have even fewer games, and at a higher price.
I'm a little confused copyright law says you are allowed to make a backup copy.
I've seen it in writing.
@@claudiobizama5603 That's an urban legend that makes no sense. The reality is that back in the day, Nintendo hired one of the iNES developers to work on an internal emulator. They also were hiring that person to archive their older games. Nintendo has no need to use emulators from other companies.
You do such great research and find such crazy things
Thanks mate :)
Emulation itself was LEGAL, that's why Bleem won the case against Sony, Camerica win the case against Nintendo.
but ROM / ISO is a copyrighted material, basically a piracy.
I downloaded emulator just to play Pokemon on GBA. That is how I got into Pokemon series
The piracy pipeline is a myth~
I too brought so many games after trying them on emulation or ripped first and discovered thing's I would have never spent money on.
Those that where gonna pirate and do nothing else where always gonna be that way, but us normal people... we brought a whole lead of shit over the years because of "piracy".
Aren't almost all of the classic compilation ports emulated? There was also the Sega Smash Pack on PC, although Sonic Jam didn't use emulation apparently.
Also the DC Sega Smash Pack was apparently popular in the emulation scene with people emulating other Genesis games and Gary Lake apparently deliberately left documentation for the emulator in the code.
Yuji Naka was one of the first to create an emulator?
That's incredible.
PC Emulation whas how i first rediscovered Super Mario RPG on the SNES. It was how i was reintroduced to the Donkey Kong County games on SNES, how i knew about fan translations, rom-hacks and started my love for Japanese exclusive games and Japan as a whole.
Of course, nowadays i mainly just use Emulators for Rom-Hacks and fan translation stuff. I don't go out of my way to download Nintendo games unless they are something not in my neck of the woods. Sure, it is very dubious and immoral to own a rom of a game i didn't buy, but what choice do I and countless others have? Game preservation is very bad, not unlike film preservation and book preservation. It's why MST3K coined the phrase "Keep Circulating the Tapes" and that mentality should be applied to games, wether it be on a PC or official means.
I mean... we only lost about a good chunk of software on the Wii U and 3DS eShops alone...
Woooow what a video ! Thanks Slope
There were emulators way before the one mentioned at the beginning of this video. I can remember Mac emulators for DOS back in the day and Amiga emulators, etc.
The only solution is to fix internal copyright law.
1. Copyright to original, non-derivative works last 25 years maximum.
1a. Format shifting does not create a derivative work.
1b. Minor changes to allow a work to function on a shifted platform does not create a derivative work.
2. If an original work is out of production or not available for NEW purchase for any reason for a period of 1. five consecutive years or 2. ten non-consecutive years the copyright immediately expires.
3. The copyright on derivative works lasts 50 years from the original date of publishing.
3a. When the copyright expires on the original work the DERIVATIVE copyright on ALL derivative works (including derivatives of derivative works) also expiries.
3b. The copyright on the (AS OROGINAL) sale of existing and new derivative works will last a maximum of ten years after the expiration of the original work.
If some kind of public domain law was set up specifically for gaming media and the preservation of older titles that would help. Like, if a titles license isn't updated by a certain amount of time (e.g. 20 or 30 years) and the game isn't redistributed on a new platform, then it falls into that category and is legal to emulate. It would force game companies into maintaining licenses for older games to stop what they consider piracy and loss of income. Otherwise the claim to that income would be considered abandoned. Just a thought.
The problem there is that often times, legal ownership can be difficult to establish at times given the number of rights involved. Not to mention that no copyright owner ir IP owner is going to go for that and no government will go for that either. Not in one country, much less every other country these places do business in.
Not a bad idea, but I'm sure corrupt companies wouldn't allow it.
There is at least the copyright law even though that itself takes a really long time...
Honest question but if I purchase a mini console legally on Amazon full of roms would I be the current owner of said roms? Or at least am I not at fault due to the purchase?
I was 14 in 1994 and didn't know what the internet was, so I had no idea emulation was happening back then.
Fantastic stuff!
Appreciate it mate
emulation is the only alternative to the dying phisical cartridges. some fake cartridges are in better shape than the original ones.
13:50 Apologize for that spelling!
Most of it is abandonware. It's the gaming companies fault for not supporting their own products
Nintendo is never getting that $12 million from LoveRoms. What a way to ruin goodwill with the fans.
Awesome video
roms can still be found and the emulators too and in some cases the sites may have rom hacks to play too which can either be game / quality of life upgrades to whole new games with assets.
Good job making the video exactly 20 minutes!
in fact in australia technically a lot of this is actually legal, thats why technically all dvd and blu-ray have to be multi regional or unlocked.
It's why I follow specific rules when it comes to emulation. 1st one is any old system is free game. (I.e. anything considered obsolete, retro and/or is no longer getting official games made for it.) 3ds,psp,ps1,ps2,ps3,gb,gba,gbc,ds,atari 2600, wonderswan, sega saturn,sega Genesis,n64, psvita,neo geo pocket + color, gamecube,wii, sega master system, sega cd,nes,snes, etc. 2. Computer games that are pretty old are up for grabs (Diablo, fallout 1 and 2, planescape torment, etc) 3. Support official releases for Current systems. (Basically by games for your current gen games like switch and ps5)bonus if a remake of an older game comes out with unique features buy to support the company. (Megaman battle network legacy collection is a good example)
I may sail the pirate flag but I have my rules same as the pirates of ole. I will always try to get the game legally especially if the company will receive the money. I'm not gonna spend 800 bucks on a old game that might work but will probably go bad in a year or 3, definitely not if my old console is on it's last leg. I love the fact I can play so many old games I've never even heard of or were before my time. I'm surprised that Sony, Nintendo and Xbox don't sell their older consoles or make new ones designed to play their older games. They would probably make a good amount of money off it.
ROMs are hard to find? Are you kidding? In a single download you can get every single game for an entire system. I wonder if those people that had to pay 12 million in damages are now pissed that the Archive site contains every single rom for every single game ever made up through xbox, PSP and Vita.
Also you had to have a whole dedicated VMU to save games for the Bleemcast. I had Gran Turismo 2 but I never had a VMU I was willing to completely format. I just played Arcade mode and enjoyed the enhanced graphics.
The video game industry wanted to turn video games into fast food and never care about physical gaming and wanted to sell the next game in there menu. To this day the video game industry never call video games as "ART" as they rather wanted you to see them as disposable gaming.
Back in 2002, I was in attending college. I sat at a particular computer. On the desktop of that computer, I found a folder on it that had a bunch of Nintendo ROMS on it along with a NES emulator. I asked myself who would leave such a thing on a school computer. I downloaded that same folder. That was the start of my collection into obtaining gamily emulators and roms. Later on, I downloaded an SNES emulator and a bunch of SNES roms. Then lastly a Sega Genisis emulator and roms. These were the only gaming systems that I dealt with for many years. Down the road, I learned of other gaming roms and emulators. I downloaded a Sega Model 2 emulator and roms that go with it. But the only game I actually play on Sega Model 2 is Gunblade New York. That was the first 3D game I came in contact with when I was younger. Now in 2023, I have many other emulators and roms that I downloaded and continue to play. I have MAME, Nintendo 64, Nintendo GameCube, and PlayStation 2.
0:38 I used a ZX spectrum emulator on the Commodore Amiga, I'm sure that came out before this.
Nothing against the sites in this video, but i was raised a Zophars Domain fan, and ill die a Zophars Domain fan. Zophar was actually just a dude running his site, and ACTUALLY responded to me when i had questions about setting up certain emulators.
Thats kind of amazing when i think about it.
Solution: Share massive rom dumps with everyone at conventions or such. Sell hard drives that just so happen to be full of roms by accident. Don't even have to waste time downloading them all.
Ali express is full of preloaded emulation hdd most have emulators and roms
Best way of preservation and for us living far from Japan, US or Europe ...in the 80s and early 90s (south America), gives us now the opportunity to discover, play and enjoy retro games that weren't main stream. We got Atari, Nintendo, Sega consoles...but with only a few games to choose if you weren't lucky enough to travel. And didn't get other consoles officially like NeoGeo, Jaguar, 3do or CDI.
Long live the retro community!!!
It's always ethical to pirate Nintendo games.
Also I once attempted retro collecting in the mid 00s, and had to give up almost immediately due to the costs. Since that day I've been pretty much exclusively playing on emulators.
Sure it's illegal, but it's like smoking weed, it hurts nobody and helps the user.
But "X" company is losing money off that game they never re-released and never had any intention of bringing back!!!!.
=P
I checked emuparadise so much back in the day, I was really into retro gaming, but even though retro games where not that exploitative expensive for an student with only pocket change the games I could get in my country were limited and importing from the US was prohibitely expensive, so donwloading roms and emulation were my bread and butter, and without I would've never got into so many franchises that I love today, I am no anarchist that only pirates games, now that I am an adult I pay for my games on consoles and PC, but if it wasn't for emulation of older and mostly abandonware titles, I would have never got to but games for certain franchises or creators.
Emuparadise is still a viable option if you know the work arounds (nudge nudge, wink,wink) inspite of the loss of some of the better known and well loved rom sites. There are still just as many avalable online to download from. One of my faves offers up to date english patches of games we never got in the west. Its thanks to that emulation community that i get the opertunity to play disaster report 3 or racing lagoon or many of the other myriad of interesting games that only got an oficial japanese release. Its probably also one of the reasons that the emulation community gets realy angry with companies like nintendo when they try to cut off that supply rather than address the obvious gap in the market and offer up those games themselves. That's not to say piracy will ever go away. But i dont know anyone who emulates who aren't also collectors and we (yes im one) probably have more oficial hard copys of games than your average casual gamer who are the main market demographic for nintendo' sony and other large companies. Gaming is no longer niche after all but the emulation side of it is and probably always will be. The only people that exclusively emulate are those that genuinely cant afford to purchase new games at full prices. And they hardly harm the market if they had no intentions of purchasing in the first place. Nintendo probably doesn't even realise that the gamers theyre trying to cut off from obtaining their roms are their customers to begin with
It's actually legal to download the rooms IF you own a copy of the game you're downloading
@shadowgotan that's a massive blanket assumption that a law that applies to the US applies everywhere. It's also not legal to download a rom online that you own an original hard copy of even in the US. You can make a digital back up of the specific game you own. But sourcing code from another copy of that game online isnt legal either. And neither option is legal in the UK
Tampermonkey is great.
@deralfenderson there's also a webpage where you can just drop the url from the game download page you want the rom from and download it that way instead. Thats beneficial to android users as tampermonkey doesn't work on android. Or at least iv never managed to get it to work
@@shadowgotanno it's not. That's like saying "well since I still own this VHS tape of a 40 year old movie, I should legally be allowed to download a 4K rip of it." That's not how it works. You are entitled to ripping your own personal physical collection for your own personal use, and that's basically it.
I been running emulator since the late 1990's.
You didn’t mention how you can download a torrent that has every Nintendo title ever, far easier than by navigating some old rom site.
The thing is torrent don't last for long either as torrent sites/launcher also had limitation on how long they could keep the files online. If traffic for a torrent is dwindling than that torrent may likely be taken off the site. If the user who download it doesn't seed the file then the chance of it been available will also dwindle. Seeding helps other build traffic on the files and makes it easier to find the torrent on search options. The less seeding, the harder it is to find and the likely chance that it will be delisted from the site.
Gaming historians would have a field day when emulation is in danger from big game companies.
I have the virtual game stations in the box I sometimes run it on my g3 it works really well to.
Using ROMs on an original NES/SNES console with an Everdrive, it's definitely LEGAL. What do you mean, Nintendo is saying otherwise? I've got a middle finger that proves them wrong.
I honestly think the best answer would be for companies to sponsor these sites, allow them to profit off advertisement, while adding a small charge (no greater than $5) to the library.
Either way you still had competitions on both side. If EmuParadise and Loveroms are legal websites and supported by companies, there's a chance you will had exclusives games available on either one or the other and if Nintendo doesn't destroy them then they'll destroy each other instead. Someone has to lose in the end. Would it matter to you if EmuParadise got exclusive rights to Super Mario RPG but not Chrono Trigger? What if EmuParadise charge you for it but not LoveRom? Rom sites will be fighting for rom rights if this happen.
"The first ever emulator" -- uhhhh hardly. Emulators have been around for as long as there have been computers needing to run old code. There were commercial emulators in the 1980's, and hobbyist ones before that. What didn't happen until the 90's was that affordable personal computers were finally powerful enough to run action games when emulating older platforms.
Don’t forget when the NES classic came out and hackers got a look at the ROM files on it they found code that was designed by hackers to get the original ROMs to work in the first place. Which means Nintendo downloaded Bootleg Roms and put them on their own official classic console
I've been using emulation since 1997. It only gets better every year. Hell, PS3 is almost fully functional.
Yeah, it has become incredibly good
I wanna see Yuji Naka's NES emulator for the mega drive! That sounds really cool
If game companies REFUSE to make the games available for purchase then I say "YYAAAAARRRR!!!"
Yeah, expecting people to delete their ROMs after a specified period was like asking to donate to the developers after being allowed to download a Shareware game for free. Thus, the Shareware model was adjusted to where only the first episode of a game was free and became the precursor to the modern Demo system.
Likewise, emulation has evolved to reselling old games (and even clone systems upon expiration of certain rights) in legal ways, plus it has always been legal to use emulation to give away original content and to keep backups of your own games (technically only if you dump the ROMs yourself from your actual copies, but nobody cares much about that requirement).
Still, it does enable piracy in a very easy manner, which continues to remain a legitimate problem if slightly less so for each ROM and flash cart site that gets shut down.
I've actually given a little thought to what might be a possible solution in the past. My idea is to basically be like GOG was when they first started out. Approach the publishers and rights holders for the games and try to negotiate deals with them to legitimately sell the ROMs for an appropriate price and give the owners due compensation. Of course, some publishers, particularly Nintendo, will likely never agree to such a deal for the games they own, and the games that are themselves based on licensed properties, like say Batman, are further complicated by those rights being held by yet other parties, but if even one company agreed to such a deal it could form a foundation to build up on.
...which is pretty ironic since Nintendo basically emulates itself on new their new consoles and even as the original copyright holder their emulation is still often subpar 😂
@@shadowmystery5613 Yes, but it's THEIR emulation, which is all they seem to care about.
@@MitchQuadrupleTree They're just stuck in tradtional views, unlike Sony who seem to be more progressive 😂
If Nintendo doesn't take care it'll be their undoing, you'll either go with the time or go over time.
Emulation and ROMs are a preservation of digital history and should be treasured.
In many cases it's still a grey area, that if you own the original cartridge then you can freely dump or own the rom. However distribution of said ROMs is what is considered the illegal/pirate activity.
Which I honestly, don't feel should be illegal.
#1. Almost no company is making money selling older generation/retro games. Nintendo has not published a NES, SNES, N64, or GameCube games in over a decade. The devices are no long supported by Nintendo, so why is the distribution of their ROMs illegal? Even the new releases of those old games on the Switch are NOT the same, we want those original games for use either on emulations of those original consoles or on a PC platform.
#2. Many companies no longer exist or hold the rights to their games anymore. So many license product and games have disappeared because the creators no longer have the license, or worse the entire company went under and took their IP with them. So why is it illegal to preserve and play these games? (Stuff like Power Rangers SNES/Genesis, or EarthWorm Jim, or etc etc)
#3. It's been proven multiple times that the ROMs NINTENDO uses were sourced from online ROM sets. The Super Mario Bros ROM in particular still had the dump code of the original dumper decades ago in the 90s.
I’m more comfortable with something like the Everdrive flash cartridges as they allow downloaded ROMs to be played back on the original hardware.
Just started playing the video can't wait to see that cartridge in action
:(
It was still a good video
It wouldn't be hard, in the age of internet, to have a website selling online versions of the entire library. A Spotify for games. But they would rather try to channel people into buying the new thing, and the best way to do that is to get rid of all the old games.
Yes, I've downloaded the rom for Link to the past. I also own the snes cart, the gba cart, and I've bought it digitally on wii, wii u, 3ds, and sub to Nintendo Switch online.
Is this a 2nd channel for Guru Larry?
That sucked when emuparadise went down. A lot of my burned sega Saturn collection I downloaded off that site
I'm using the same emulation site that I did as a kid, and I get pissed when people name drop the site, it may not be the best site but it's been a reliable source
Love emulation. It's a terrific way to play classic games that cost $$$$ or you can't find at all.
Most of my gaming collection lives in storage in Scotland while I live in Wales. So I emulate to play the games I already own. Usually on my Pixel Fold with a Gamesir X2 Bluetooth. I'm not stealing. In fact I own several games (especially Final Fantasy ones) several times due to multiple ports.
The thing that pains me the most is that i saw a once beloved company (at least by me) go to such effort to combat something we all know wasn't even hirting them in any way. Their greed made me stay away from nintendo products all together. People who emulate games, for the most part, bought those exact games when they came out and would buy them again if they were available for current generations or for pc.
I got a CD-ROM of console emulators for the PC in 2000 and I downloaded ROMs for games that I owned for Atari 2600, Sega Genesis and Nintendo 64. Also, I, briefly, used emulators for tablets to play console games.
All those roms are still on emuparadise if you know how to access them :3
There needs to be rom sites that when we buy the rom that the og company that the game came out in gets a cut of that fee. This way everyone wins.
I have a simple solution: if you make a creative product (Movie, Music, Game, etc) and stop making a particular one available in a reasonable fashion (Directly and legally) for a period of 6mo's and it's longer than 10 years since the initial public release, that property should fall in to the public domain and be free to all... ALSO I strongly feel that if a company takes a tax "Write off" on a creative product and does not release it they should be required to transfer all assets into the public domain via a clearing house as at that point it's the taxpayer's money that has paid for that project... so in this case, if nintendo has kept the original Super Mario Brothers / Duck Hunt game in a "Virtual Shop" on emulation for at least 1/2 the year each year since it's release, then fine, they can continue to profit from it until "standard copyright" expires, HOWEVER if they were to decide it wasn't worth their time to make some form of that game publicly purchasable then boom, they loose the right to claim against others who do... not saying that gives others rights to the mario character / level design / etc. but to the Rom of the game or that particular work of creation
Realistically, such a system is never going to happen. IP rights are way too complicated for that to be viable.
The solution is simple: Public domain. The original releases of all games should be public domain after 25 years. Remakes and remasters should not provide extensions to that. Neither hsould sequels. Of course, the remasters, remakes and sequels get protextions uponr elease becuase they are unique and proper vresions in theri own right but the original release should be public domain.
That's not going to happen, Not in any major commercial market or all of them.
@@purelogarithm didn’t say it would. I said that’s the solution.
my first Emulator ... that was around 2001 / 2002 or so when i read about that in a german gaming Magazine (Screenfun) i had to download ZSNES and Final Fantasy 4 (since my english back then was OKAY but not as good as now, i had to play it with a dictornary next to me *lol*)
Can't go wrong with a Duck Tales tune
I would like to see a law where if you don't make a game available for purchase for a fixed period, eg 20 years, it is considered abandonware and can be legally emulated.
I don't own consoles anyone, only PC at the moment. So emulation is the answer for me.
I own consoles and will continue to favour consoles over PCs, because consoles are more fun.
snes9x was NOT the first ever emulator for the SNESWTF? CLUELESS it was zsnes
My have mixed thoughts on emulation. I use it for certain things like the C64 where I mainly use the C64 Maxi. I do not use emulation for anything that is currently available for retail purchase. I purchase ROMs for C64 indie games and if a publisher has made a rom available for purchase even for an older game, I pay for it. Hunter's Moon is an example of this. I also own a few other mini systems like Megadrive and PC Engine. I also have an Evercade in addition to a reasonable amount of original hardware like Megadrive, Xbox, PS1, PS3, PS4, Dreamcast, Xbox 360, Series X, DS and Gameboy Advance.
Overall, I don't feel I have some entitlement or right to play something I don't own and try to contribute financially to publishers whenever something is available to purchase. I don't support companies that make money off unlicensed ROMs. I think it's a really shitty business practice actually.
As for a solution, that would be the license holders selling downloadable ROMs. I have no idea whether this is logistically possible and what issues there may be with offering support/warranty and such though.
12:08 It wasn't easy to find working emulators for Xbox systems. Even to this day there's exactly one for the original Xbox and that's it and far as I am aware, only classic arcade boards have working MAME modules.
There was a sister project called MESS that did consoles and computers, but it's since been merged into MAME. Whether that's got an Xbox module or not, I have no idea.
@@Roxor128 Obviously not... Modules are just emulator files.
My suggestion? Publishers releasing either the games (in bulk collections) or the rights. I think they are already doing the prior. As for rare and inaccessible games… practically speaking, lawsuits are never for ‘abandonware’, but major titles of which the legal owner is around
The core of the problem is copyright (and more broadly, IP) protection laws. Copyright exists for far too long, and rather than promoting the progress of science and useful arts, it's stifling them. The obvious solution is to reduce copyright terms. For computer games specifically, I'd say two five year terms before they enter the public domain should be the maximum. The first 5 years should be granted automatically, with the second being conditional on whether the game is still being sold and supported in a way that is reasonably accessible to the general public. No, still technically selling the game but pricing it at 1,000 times it's original selling price wouldn't count as being reasonably accessible, nor would selling a game but not the hardware it runs on. If companies really want to retain control of their IP for the maximum amount of time possible, then they need to commit to that initial 5 years of sales and support. And they need to accept that after 10 years, it's going to become public domain whether they like it or not (and yes, it will almost always be or not).
Yea, that's just never going to happen. It also ignores that we don't have just one copyright system - every country has different rules and protections and you are never going to change everyones minds - it's hard enough for international law to agree to anything.