🛑 Its WAY WORSE Than We Thought... 😱
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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Your talking about me 😂 wish I found your videos sooner!!!
Pinning this comment just so folks see I’m not BSing, AMD degradation is no different than Intel. I also appreciate the consult and support for the channel man
@@FrameChasers your wicked smart, super appreciative of your help!!
@@antraxbeta23 degradation doesn't mean failure.
@@antraxbeta23 You're one person. A sample size of 1 isnt indicative of anything. Also, the person above is using a different generation of Ryzen CPU.
@@FrameChasersthanks so much I was going to use Intel for my second computer my first computer is using amd cpu I like to use both brands of cpu so I learn more about using computers. Now I am confident in using Intel again do you have a discord?
20:00 Jufes casually drinking Belle Delphine bath water
LMAO
twas delicious
That is exactly what happened with my 13900K lmao. I put it in, used ASUSes crap auto OC for like a few days and noticed it was giving 1.5v to the core and I was like WTF? Turned that off and put the cores at 5.5. It is still fine 1.5 years later.
Same tried asus own OC, set my voltage to 1.6v and cores to 5.5v like wtf?
When I oc my self i run 5.8ghz @ 1.35v without any issues.
@@iLegionaire3755 did you try to increase the voltage or llc?
For me, my mobo is realy bad so I needed to set a positive llc in order to overclock else my voltage would drop randomly to much.
My fps is better than my friends running 7800x3d, but Im running my 13900ks with e-cores 4.5ghz, uncore 51x and 5.8ghz p-cores. I have around 30-40fps more on my cpu in mw3 @ 1440p
@@iLegionaire3755 I find the part about what chip is faster than what being rather moot for me. Even stock at 5.5ghz the CPU destroys everything I run on it. I haven't felt the need to overclock it at all.
I got In Contact with people who build my pc and they nice replacing my 13900k thank god !!
@@iLegionaire3755what you said makes zero sense. If you do manual OC on a cpu, the voltages are locked.
It’s sad that people now have to go online and find creators to fix problems that the manufacture should have been fixing long before the product ever even released thank you to the creators and the other people throughout the Internet, taking their time to figure out the fixes to these problems when manufactures didn’t seem to care
We have 10x 13700Fs in our LAN center. After some 6 monts of usage, heard from customers that there is some throttling going on. I've checked, repasted, added some cooling solutions, still not good enough. Decided to limit boost clocks on all cores (300Mhz). Since then there has been no throttling, lost about 7% performance but customers are happy.
After what appears to be a slight degradation, thermal velocity boost fudges the numbers, overheats and generally sucks ASS.
13900k real gamer - discord member - zero issues since day one- frame chasers recommended settings. ❤ this community.
I heard Asus motherboards on older launch bios used to boost the vid to 1.6-1.7. That is insanity.
What are the recommended settings? I just received my 13900k yesterday and am going to put together the build this Wednesday.
@@kyle12374848Just set it to sync all cores and you should be fine in the bios.
13900ks. Same. Zero issues.
13980hx. Blue screened on initial.boot... bios update crippled it... sold laptop on loosing £1000
Buildzoid also gets stuff wrong i explained AC/DC load line in one of his video's about 6 weeks ago as he was giving bad info in a video and pointed out his 14900K was unstable as Gigabyte dropped DC ll from 0.7 on 12900k to 0.6 on 13900k then 0.4 on 14900k, and if he simply upped DC ll to 0.6 or 0.7 he would be stable he pointed out a leaked intel doc which also got it wrong AC ll is supposed to be mirrored from LLC but the bad intel "leaked/fake" doc says it gets mirrored from DC ll, go look at my comments may 5th onwards.. he know's thats the case now as he commented on it in a recent video but he is still wrong about where AC ll gets mirrored from (or is supposed to be asus correctly mirror it from llc gigabyte just punch in 0.9 on all boards hard set instead of the correct 1.1 to mirror stock llc)
Yeah LLC is so much controversial ground here, hoping for a vid on it
Hope Jufus helps on that
Everybody gets sht wrong…..
@@-raist its not getting things wrong its how you handle being wrong
@@Asimowild AC/DC LL isnt LLC totally different thing
I watch others first THEN I come here to watch and learn... And I walk away knowing I can fix my 14900k. I REALLY appreciate your time and effort for the community!
So literally you're buying 6GHz cpu and make it run at 5.5 GHz ???
So again intel screwed up for false advertising and pumping voltage to make it happen to go to 6GHz , even on 1 core!
I'm no expert, but this is why I stuck with 13th gen
6GHz on single core or 5,5+ on all cores. I just disable these crappy boost algos on my own CPUs and do manual all-core OC.
41 ro 44k r23 limited vs unlimited and still faster than a 7950x in all but compression while limited... and with push pull aio or a chiller smokes the 7950x in blender too still. Whoops lol.
Ask me how I know lol.
Is what it is lol 🤷♂️.
Your "even on one core statement" tells me you don't understand vdroop and that tells me all I need to know lol.
At 24cores 32 threads locked 6.2 and 4.7 only pull around 1.3 to 1.4 under full load.
This cpu also has 2 cores perfectly fine at 6.0 boost 🤷♂️.
I know 7950xs that can't hit 5.6 single core without 1.5v lol. 🎉🎉🎉
Edit actually 3 and close on the 4th lol...
@@InnocentiusLacrimosa 6ghz 2 cores, 5.7ghz all core.
That 5800X3D just chilling on my mobo. 🤣
Truly the best value. Works out of the box with no temp issues
Depends on what you play. Cod bro here and had a miserable experience with it
@@furudoerika697712700K also works out of the box and it's pulling ahead of the 5800X3D on games right now.
Unlike the 5800X3D, the 12700K (specially if it has AVX512 instructions) can match a 7800X3D on PS3 emulation.
@@bobbyoffline in what way? i have done a lot of these for friends and they have worked like a dream.
I'm running a mild BCLK OC and the board is just pumping almost 1.3v into it 🤣
Intel fucked up big time
Jufus I understand that you and your community are really intelligent and skilled at tuning computers however you cannot defend Intel here. The people should not be expected to know how to do voltage tuning or disable the two cores overboosting when Intel themselves don't tell them to do such preventative measures. The only thing a customer has to do is purchase the chip and install it on a motherboard and disable MCE on day one. Should their chip degrade from this the onus falls on Intel because people should not be stressing trying to figure out how to stabilize a chip after purchase.
I don’t disagree, I’m saying I don’t care. I only care about my audience
@@FrameChasers Fair. You are neither defending them or attacking them so that's fine. Some fanboys are defending Intel now and I find that sickening.
@@cemsengul16 I mean is it intels fault when mobo manufacturers are pumping 1.5v+ in order to impress "benchmarkers"
@@OdinAlgeron I would say it is indirectly Intel's fault. They could have forced board partners to launch their LGA 1700 motherboards with the proper settings on first boot. Whether they did or did not tell them to do this, they still reaped the benefits of high benchmark scores from dangerous settings. Think about the average person who doesn't know shit about tuning. All their life every rig they built they just inserted the processor on the latch and booted with no stability issues down the line. Used to be that only enthusiasts would have to change settings on a bios and now it became a requirement without word from the manufacturer. So Intel is responsible if only partially.
@@FrameChasers Jufes, if I subscribe to your channel do you also support AMD CPU owners on BIOS, overclocking, and stability expertise? Or am I required to use Intel only CPUs and boards? I've been running a 13900KS and Apex Z790 boards for a while now and know a lot about overclocking, etc. However I'm not brand loyal and want to try out a 9000 series x3D cpu and x870e board and Optimus waterblock within the next few months. Will I be shunned away?
Next we're going to find out Mario isn't even Italian.
still trying to cope. i have 50 of these chips at work and like 15 of them are crashy already. this isn't a problem across all vendors just because someone elses amd chip does this. we dont have many AMD chips at my place but we do have maybe 15 5950x and they all still run like a dream and they are worked hard all day for 2 shifts for cad and renderings
Hey man I have a I9 14900ks and it was running 90 plus underload , and now that I used your method in your other video the highest it goes is 75! Thank you so much !
Cope Chasers
I have been listening to you and your right on how to skirt an issue, but there is still an issue and the other guys are right too. Everybody already came out with the way around the issue. Now they are moving on to why. Wouldn't it be nice if the layers were isolated enough to contain that voltage? Wich is what they were shooting for. You do have alot of good info and experience though and enjoy watching. Maybe think outside the box a bit though. There is Def more to the story.
First day I had the 13900K i locked all cores to 5.3Ghz and put it to adaptive - 140mV. Never had an issue. Only playing singleplayer. Doesn't afect me if I loose 5-10% perf
That's a bit conservative. It's basically 2 core boosts. Stop those from using 1.5v and you can get more performance.
@@Jacob-dw4vdThe only thing i would do with any CPU is a partial overclock combined with an adaptative undervolt.
I still have an old Haswell laptop with an i7-4700MQ (4 core 8 thread 3.4GHz max, same perfomance as a desktop i7-3770)
There was a game in an emulator that was reaching 60fps but it had stuttering issues
I removed the stuttering by a partial overclock from 3 and 3.2GHz all core turbo to 3.4GHz, then combined it with a -87mv adaptative undervolt.
That laptop is now 11 years old but i still feel it snappy to this day after the tuning i did for it.
It managed constant 85fps on Counter Strike 2 without stuttering.
Now i have an i7-12700K CPU but i sometimes use my old laptop for very old games because it has a VGA output, i can connect a CRT monitor to it (that is how i played Counter Strike 2).
I'm not at all surprised that Wendell doesn't know what a VID table is. He's a networking and IT guy. He doesn't have any knowledge of CPU architecture. He's networking implementation.
Yeah, he is not the right guy to diagnose this issue. GN has some of the diagnostic equipment, and if not, he's willing to pay for labs to do the tests he can't do.
I'm not surprised Wendell didn't know about VID table given his background in the IT world. It is totally different then the gaming world. Everyone in IT has their level of expertise in their given Depts. Not even the guys with big egos know everything.
I worked in the GOV. Help desk for 5 years and in that time, we rarely had to go into the bios to adjust anything, shit just worked.
Most of the problems were the shitty PWR Supplies Dell but in them crappy machines and bad ram.
from my perspective it is retarded to use a high boosting "Gaming CPU" for 24/7 Server and a motherboard with 4096 PL and over 500A ICCMax,
what a stup!d approach, and he calls himself IT pro ...
Yeah for some reason FC sees it as a gotcha, when Wendell is talking with devs and trying to extrapolate data to see what the failures will ultimately be. Yes lowering voltages helps. But when Intel did QC testing, you’re telling me they didn’t see this? I’m sure they tested different configurations with air and liquid cooling to see what the limits are? So lowering voltages are a bandaid, now we focus on the cause. The statement and plans by Intel seem to be a delay to keep the press at bay with future CPU launches coming soon. GN is looking into possible physical problems during making of the chips which could explain why Intel didn’t see this during QC. Cause if they did they know they’re going to face a class action for selling product they knew wasn’t stable at those speeds.
Don’t get me wrong, tech tubers aren’t always right. But if your angle is to be a dick about them and grandstand that is going to be a detractor to many who just want to find out the best course of action.
In wendells video he mentioned that lowering voltages does not always prevent the chips from failing, The vid tables accelerate the issue and cause it, but is not the only cause. He didn't focus on the vid tables because it wasn't about voltage the entire time. He was looking for the actual cause of the failing chips not what makes them worse. Because he reported that chips would fail even with safe margins of voltage.
That would explain why I'm having none of these issue. My 13700k / 4090 build has been flawless for almost 2 years now. Started on Z790 ddr4 msi tomahawk then switched over to the ddr5 msi z790 tomahawk months later when it was released. Contact frame since day one as well. 13700k oc to 5.6ghz on all 8 p cores, All 8 E core oc to 4.4ghz, Ring oc to 5.0ghz at 1.34v. Even the mem controller has been very solid. 32g.b Corsair rgb vengeance 6400 cl32 hynix A-Die oc to 7200 34-41-41-83 at 1.45v. On a msi z790 tomahawk. I use my system everyday 7 days a week for over 8 hours a day for work / gaming. I can't complain.
most tech tubers are clueless when it comes to tuning systems and understanding what the bios settings do.
@@iLegionaire3755 it doesn’t need to be tweaked at all. That’s the issue, the mobos were doing “tweaks” that went out of spec by default. If you bought a 13900ks and disabled the default built in OC and enforced all limits from day 1 you’d have no issues right now. Sure you wouldn’t have that “free” 9% uplift, but as you are learning, nothing is free. You want 9% more from your CPU, be willing to put a couple hrs in. This is the way
IPhone era many people dont want to waste time on tunning. Reason why Apple products are better.
JayZ?
Wendell not knowing what a VID table is doesn't change anything and Wendell has never claimed to be a hardware "guru". Steve talking about an oxidation issue might have some legs. It might explain why certain chips are having problems and others aren't. Could certainly be a contamination issue at the silicon level. What we know for sure is some 139xx,149xx CPUs are failing before the warranty is up. Whether it's Intel's fault or the motherboard makers, we'll know in a few more months when it's all sorted.
It amazing that just from one system integrator, there was 8 million defects, holy moly.
@ericvalentine1497 Idk man, he should have immediately said "This W680 board doesn't provide a readout of the VID table. Let me throw this chip in a Z790 and I'll post the VID for you". Because I'm not Wendell and even I knew that.
@@jakehutchens More like:"We are running with the specs Intel gave us but 8 million CPUs fail anyways".
Yea mine is one of the affected ones unfortunately
Wendell not know what VID table is is a total red flag. Knowing your cpu VID for silicon lottery is basic overclocking 101. Also him trying to present that a W680 motherboard can not be the problem because of ma W680 server grade BS. Knowing this, all of Wendell's "data" gather from one system integrator is all suspect. Most likely what is going on is the W680 BIOS is boosting way too high for the cooling solution on those boards. Server racks do not use high end water coolers which are standard for builds with 13 or 14th gen cpu's that draw over 200W. Combine this with silicon lottery, this combination basically will toast any CPU with a high VID. The one bad 13700T is just down to statistical probability due to high sampling count. The real conclusion should be that the system integrator in question should not be selling a desktop part for mission critical server use, they should have sold Xeon to their customers.
Running a 89 biscuit score 14900k CPU @ 1.25 fixed at LLC7 at a Fixed 5.7ghz p-cores, 4.4ghz e-core, x45 ring with a 360 AIO and a fixed P1/P2 @ 253w for 38k in C23 @ 79c Max temp. Also hits 41k in C23 with a max P1/P2 @330w, but not used for daily use. Completely stable in OCCT, Prime, Y-cruncher without any issues since release. If you use default motherboard profile settings your degrading your CPU as they are all set too high by default. Tip - Setting the ring speed past x45 causes a lot of instability without also heavily increasing v-core voltages and the same thing goes for a fixed p-core above x57 or e-core above x45 unless you won the silicon lottery with an amazing CPU sample, I also do not recommend going higher than 1.35-1.4 volts on the V-core for daily use, i.e. the lowest stable v-core the better for long term CPU health with a capped P1/P2 at 253w. :D
I immediately noticed and fixed this issue for myself when I ran HWinfo on default MB settings showing a crazy 1.47 default voltage for the V-core running adaptive settings with intel's boost enabled. SHUT all that crap off and manually set up your CPU correctly!! I'm at 125w while running Cyberpunk @5.7 fixed without any stability or degradation and 40w idle, only maxes to 253w during benchmarking like C23, etc. you will not hit that wattage during daily use unless your are doing heavy AVX encoding.
When i turned on my 12700K PC for the first time, the motherboard was giving it 1.41 volts and reached 90 degrees and 240 watts lmao.
I did a -0.11mv undervolt and the temperature and wattage dropped to 71 degrees and 150 watts.
This is with a Deepcool Assassin 3 and a Corsair 5000D Airflow case, the most OP air cooled combo i found at the time.
I like the 12700K so much but gosh, Intel out of the box settings suck, it's the main reason why i recommended AMD to a friend.
Don't you just love tech tubers craping on other tech tubers who have a different base of knowledge than you?
I have always worked on this myself, i9-10900K, 13900K or 14900KS doesn't matter at all. Since ages I always knew from experience that syncing all cores, not going passed 1.35v Vcore has worked great. On the 10900K it worked with 1.28v because it was locked to 4.9 GHz, the i9-13900K required about 1.345 for 5.5 GHz all core. The i9-14900KS has better binning, thus, it can run 5.7 GHz at 1.35v all core. Another thing to note is NEVER USE motherboard's defaults EVEN IF YOU Sync sll cores manually and lock the Vcore. It is not enough, to be on the safe side consult the power/current limits of your CPU and manually lock it to that. I am talking about pl1, pl2, ICCMax at least. This will be beneficial.
Intel® Core™ i9 processor 14901KE maybe a fix for now until Bartlett Lake-S?
Thoughts on the upcoming 12 P core LGA1700 CPU? 🤔
It's embedded. Not a socket cpu.
@@Jacob-dw4vd That's the 14901KE cpu, not the 12P core one.
omg I could write a whole book about sa on ddr4
Personally I haven't seen a hiccup from my 14700k or either of my brothers' 13900Ks even at the unlimited power settings, so I don't really know what to think until Intel makes an official finding and solution. There's so much techtuber clickbait noise and AMD fanboy exaggerations going on that it's hard to tell how big the issue _really_ is. The only thing that matters is my relationship with Intel and how they react if I DO have an issue down the road.
To be fair to Wendell he doesn't even dabble in overclocking or chasing FPS in a gaming environment. He cares much more about and is knowledgeable in server side applications and Linux compatibility as that's literally his job. His expose was surrounding using enthusiast CPUs in a server environment they were never intended for so that must be taken into account, which he stated in his first video, then said it again on the Full Nerd that his findings have little to do with effecting the average gamer that isn't running their system full tilt 24/7.
13900k here since day one I turned off asus OC and limited the temps I play cod, gta, cyberpunk, and any new story games and my chip is completely fine.
Haven't had a single problem with any of my Intel CPUs. On first boot I always check what the Vcore and VID voltages are and then set the all core frequency and a quick and dirty undervolt to whatever the CPU can handle. I've owned and tested 12700k, 12900k, 12900ks, 13600k, 13900ks, 14900ks. DD the 14ks and still use the 13ks in my test bench.
On the other hand I also built a 7800x3d system to try it for myself because everyone acts like it's perfect and the only option. Used PBO curve optimizer -25 and after less than 6 months my x3d degraded and started to blue screen constantly. Even after trying everything possible it would still blue screen and had to be RMA'd. So in my experience it can happen to either brand.
4th intel person who bought a 7800x3d just to prove its not good and hopes that it will somehow change the fact that intel has been selling defective cpu's
@@nielsenrainiertungala9391You seem to be confused. I didn't buy a 7800x3d "to prove it's not good." On the contrary, I bought it to have the best parts available. This is my hobby and I love building computers and playing games. I build at least two PC's each year with the best offered by each brand and compare them for my own enjoyment. My comment was only showing the personal experience I have had so far. My Ryzen CPU died and my Intel CPU is still alive. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
I used predominantly AMD based systems over the years. My first system I ever built was using an AMD Athlon 64 CPU back in 2003 and dozens more AMD builds over the years.
And I can tell you, AMD isn't going to give you any brownie points for trying to call me out as a hater because my 7800x3d died.
So Intel has a problem running it's CPUs in a stock configuration, and you relate that to you doing something with an AMD CPU that is the opposite of stock.
@@blkspade23 You seem really worried about that word "Stock". Not sure if you've noticed but this isn't exactly a channel that deals with stock plug n' play settings. Maybe HUB is more your speed.
He and pretty much everyone in this community tunes our systems to perform the way we want them to. Whether it be maximum performance or best efficiency. On top of that, this video in particular is all about setting up your CPU properly because the MB bios trys to cram more voltage into the CPU than necessary. Initially it was easier for MB manufacturers to just pump up the voltage to account for a wide range of the silicon lottery rather than deal with a possibly unnecessary RMA if a system was unstable with a particularly bottom of the barrel CPU silicon. Which is what has caused the unnecessary degradation everyone is talking about now. To which my original post was pointing out isn't a problem if you take a few minutes and set it up to not pull so much voltage.
If using a negative offset PBO to reduce voltage, power draw and heat was a problem, you would be seeing the vast majority of AMD CPUs dying because that's what almost everyone does with their AMD CPU.
@@dracer35 The channel's focus is irrelevant. The issue is the the main topic, and it shouldn't exist in the first place if you do just plug it in and go. Degradation or failure is a known risk running something out of spec. Stock should be the safest, long lasting condition to run a chip in. You made a comparison of degradation from tweaking, which is just not the same. You chose to do something extra, which is fine, but should be required to have to product work properly.
My buddy's 8700K is no longer stable because he overclocked it, and it doesn't even maintain stock clocks any more. He's knows he degraded it, but it still took 5 years.
So becoming a TechTuber or Influencer in general is like starting your own church after you've decided "I'm going to become a pastor and lead people", in that it's real about the people who FOLLOW, instead of true authority, expertise and wisdom.
lol well TSMC has been complaining for the last few gens to AMD that they are pushing their silicon too far with too much power and warned them about degrading! And well Intel is using the same silicon! So to me, it simply looks like this is the outcome of this, plain and simple! Not much else to see, really.
Where did TSMC complain?
Intel is not using TSMC for 12th -14th gen cpus
Intel doesn't use TSMC for their CPUs, they use their own fabs and transistors...
My 5820k cpu after 7 years of operation could still undervolt 0.075mv. Thats decent longevity.
I’m running my 14900K in a Z690 Classifed and EVGA never released a bios for 14th gen. I have no choice but to manually tune. What do I simply need to do?
Whats funny about this, to me anyway. MLID has been having "computer issues" with his 7950x rig, and "he's having it looked at". He probably has a degraded CPU. He'll never admit to that, cuz all he does is s*** on Intel.
Guess what jufes, the 13700T's are also degrading. Their max boost is only 4.9ghz - the problem runs deeper than high VID tables and single core boosts.
"You can be first, be smarter, or cheat. Now I don't cheat, and while I like to think we have some pretty smart people here it sure is a helluva lot easier to just be first."
-John Tuld (Jeremy Irons) in Margin Call
Just a really good movie line about the first adopter advantage.
it is quite sad that ppl spend 1k+ on computer parts and they don't even work properly out of the box
No, it's sad that people spend that much money without knowing knowing the bare minimum of how to operate a computer.
@@skorpersFalse
@@Monkey_slapping_keys How the fuck is it false? It's objective incompetence to drop money on something and be completely clueless about how to operate it lmfao. Least obvious fetal alcohol syndrome.
@@skorpers if you're paying top $ for parts you should expect it to work out the box
All simpletons agree it should just work....those of us ....with more than 2 brain cells to rub together... That say started computing in the early 80s or before.... understand having knowledge of what your working with is required to get maximum benefits...etc
intel just confirmed it, you were 100% right! They should hire you :P they would have save many months of investigation
I know they've been saying mostly i9 13900K & 14900K and higher but my 13700K & 14700K works perfect, snappy and stable. I wouldn't trade them for AMD even if I had a gun pointed at my head. I owned a 2950x, 3700x and a 3950x; ALL of which had horrible stability issues.
Then what's the 13/14700/f ?
Just lower bin, because the specs are bs?
Also claiming you had "horrible stability issues" on random CPU's just sounds like you didn't pick a good mobo/ram combo and or didn't know what you were doing at the time.
@@skorpers I couldn't agree w/ you more. I prefer hardware that doesn't require me to know what I'm doing. See when I was a small child I contracted brain worms that devoured 97.8% of my brain leaving me simple. So I need hardware that doesn't require bi-weekly bios updates, ryzen master updates, QVL memory, etc. I need hardware that as Nvidia would say, "It just works..."
yeah i can remember, the 2950x was dogshit. since then, never going back to AMDumb
@@heyguyslolGAMING Notice how everything you said applies more to intel than AMD.
@@Uthleber Lmao
Yeah, those voltages are absolutely insane. No wonder it's having issues. In comparison my 13900KF, oc'd with 340w PL1 and PL2 VID's, are averaging 1.39v with max of 1.427v (boosting cores). I've stability tested this chip also, which I think should be a point of emphasis. Are any of these "Techtubers" stability testing their HW? Even stock I'd stability test. You can no longer set XMP and forget about it.
Why would they test stabiility when using out of the box settings and Intel recommendations + XMP basic changes. They prefer out of the box settings, while they shouldnt need to test it, clewrly they should considering how dumb Intel has been.
Im sure the mindset is.. but its stock, why stability test?
1.427 doesn't sound that bad on a 13900K compared to my 12700K's out of the box settings with a similar voltage but only 5GHz and 240 watts...
Fixed that garbage and now it's 1.23 volts and 150 watts.
Deba8er can't troubleshoot his own PC, Level1Techs doesn't know what's a VID, LTT became a corpo conveyer belt for definitely not ad content... Golden era of hardware is enjoying its last breath.
buildzoid need to step up
buildzoid lacking
A new era is coming
@@user-hq9fp8sm8f he needs motivation
@@arkama67 buildzoid can't even get 8000mhz ddr5 stable on intel the guy has no clue either
Yeah this is not a new issue at all… i have an old 11900k and man… this thing was at 1.6v to reach that 5.3Ghz out of the box and i was having crashes sometimes… i just lock it at 5.0 Ghz 1.35v (still high but safe) and it works wonders… but not everyone wants to do those kind of things and more important than that… they shouldn’t, things should work out of the box… and yeah to be fair people with lack of understanding and knowledge should not buy this kind of cpus
yup even a ferrari made for the track ill blow the engine if you never monitor oil levels and coolant
11900K with 1.6V out of the box... So that's why my 11700K won't boost high, I get nervous over 1.35V lol
My 11700K is locked at 4.8GHz all core with 1.3V.
My 14900k is only stable with all core locked to 5.2ghz and in my setup I am running 128gb of memory which is only truly stable at 5,200mhz or 4,800mhz with better timings. If I try 128gb with 5,600mhz I get enough game crashes to be annoying so it’s not worth it.
that sounds pretty bad, honestly. BUt I'm assuming you're running a lot of RAM for work.
The problem are 128gb on Z790 not 14900k
@@gabrielebarreca2111 I was thinking the same thing. With 24gb on the 4090, and 2x24gb ram, Adobe apps run flawlessly on my rig. You sure you need 128gb?
YOU ARE THD ONLY PERSON!!!! ive seeb talk about voltage FINALLY ive said this for YEARS that the issues are voltage related.
Max core voltage is dependent on transistor size, type and material / material quality. Micro arcing between transistors occurs when voltages are too high. Others will refer to this as “electron quantum tunneling” mostly when evaluating the limitations of nanoscopic circuits. Quantum theory is seriously flawed and will be regarded as false in the factual process of manufacturing CPUs. The reason voltages out of the box on newer cpus lowers over time is due to the physics or electricity having the ability to “arc” from one metallic object to another regardless of the interposing medium. voltages 1.4 ~ 1.411 have often been the absolute limit for CPU core voltages to remain stable and prevent microarcing since i started. XOC is not relevant obviously due to the extreme temperature and metals approaching close to zero electrical resistance and changing physical interaction of electricity. good analysis jewfus i agree 1.4 is high and near the limit of AIO and normal case cooling expectations. I hope intel figures out they just should pay tsmc to make the chips. we gamers and alike deserve better than what intel delivered.
Not a discord member, but subscriber. Built my first Intel system in years a few months ago with a 14900k. Ran on Asus Maximus Hero Z790 with 32GB Dominator 7200 sticks. Didn't know any better because I haven't been following any Intel stuff in a very long time, so I ran stock Asus optimized with AI OC. Degraded very quickly. RMA'd, then while waiting for approval, bought another 14900k. Used info from Jufes and AHOC to set my short- and long-term PL, amps, enforce Intel limits, and locked all cores at 5.7 from the get-go. Been a few months now and CPU is night and day from the first. Got my RMA replacement last week and sold to offset cost of 2nd CPU.
I love calling them out in the comments.... And getting no response.
I have 2 13900k Cpus. Bought 1 on release, 2nd bought May 2024. Zero blue screens or crashes gaming on either. 2nd 13900k is on a Dark Hero z790 and other on a Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Master. My use is gaming, home theater, basic desktop apps. I have gotten random issues on all boards and cpus starting up from an overnight shut down, that gpu is not detected qled code while i can clearly see the display or PCIE reset it self to 4x bios halt prompt. All issues resolved with a restart. I don't know if those issues have anything to do with degradation
You are so right... however... this seems to be in part of Intel / AMD tuning their CPUs to the bitter limits for the techtuber review advantage. Sacrificing reliability for performance... which again... you are right... we have been doing forever... but when we did it... we were the ones pushing the limits and understanding what was going on because we were pushing limits.
"First Mover Advantage" isn't as big as some think - Xerox, Kodak, even Apple was like a decade late with a "smartphone", Google wasn't the first web search or first online map, Chrome wasn't the first browser. But Google is ironically now on the receiving end: they were the first with TPU/Tensor cores and invented Transformers for neural nets, so if first mover advantage was as powerful as some think it is Google would now be the 4 trillion dollar corp, basically Nvidia+OpenAI in one.
It’s an advantage, not immunity, they can slip up
I liked your channel because everything you says makes sense, I spent some hours researching hardware reviews and benchmarks and your videos are the ones that striked me as the truest content there is out here. Now you explain how a lot of views gather more views and turns a rather weak opinion into a authority figure, sealing the deal and saying viewership and size doesnt necessarily means understanding. which to me is the absolute truth. Keep up the good work man, as soon as I get my computer I'll subscribe to your channels and I'll learn, from you, how to tune and tweak my hardware
I see your passion and knowledge. keep it up 👍 But there are also other youtubers knowing their shit very well, like "Actually Hardcore Overclocking"
Flat out zero competition. I’m so glad more people are finding the discord. I’ve been watching for a while and my pc hasn’t crashed since unless I’m tuning memory
Keep up the good work Bro. I truly appreciate it
Went from a 13700k to a 7800x3d soc 1.2v 6000mhz cl30 expo enabled with tightened secondary timings.
Zero issues it just works. I waited until all the issues had been sorted by the first movers.
4090/7800x3d has been a great combination for me.
My setup as well. She’s golden. It’s the perfect combo
@@dabagz1 if you are not running 4k then the 4090 is gimpped by that cpu
@@OdinAlgeron if your buying a 4090 and not playing at 4k your wasting money
@@chilledgamez3659
(3440) 2560 x 1440 @ 240hz is a thing
Gpu usage is above 90% in 1440p in many titles. The switch was not just to move from 13700k ddr4. It was to allow me to easily transition to a 9800x3d and away from ddr4.
The 9800x3d will likely max out a 4090 at 1440p. If I go 4k 240hz oled then the 4090/7800x3d stays.
Frame Chasers is a legend, followed his shit from day 1. Zero issues.
It's honestly crazy how the guys that have been around for 20+ years just being nerds like me. Tuning every system they have running tri sli and shit back in the day that have deep knowledge of PC tuning. Have to look on to these huge RUclips channel like Jay that just know literally fuck all about anything except building a PC 😅.
Wendell says he’s a janitor, not some phd silicon guru and it doesn’t invalidate the claims that raptor lake has an issue for at least some not so small percentage of customers.
Triggered liberal girl in beanie meme*
Whatever he says he is, he treats the subjects like he was an expert in the matter and also accepts invitations to get his ego up I suppose because why would you accept to talk 30 min about something you don't even know that much or care enough?
@j340_official He probably shouldn't make baseless ignorant claims if he doesn't understand day one basic VID tables.
my 7800x3d oc to ebclk 5.250 GHZ curve pbo -5-8-13-20-20-20-11-20 100%% stable ram 6200 MHZ cl 30-34-34-34 😁
Just to mention I trashed my Z790 asus motherboard. Slapped the entirely unstable 14700k into an Asrock steel legend z790 and stable as a rock. Asus more like AIDSus. Checked the VID for the boost cores under max load on the ASrock andis 1.38v not freakin 1.48v on the asus
Yeah well Intel pushed the new microcode out specifically to Asus boards first
@@ZombieLincoln666 from everything i've seen and read, they are by far the worst and its hard to know why other than pumping the voltages
A vid table is that little table you put in a hallway or under a mirror. Right?
I've watched your youtube channel for a long time. Im very knowledgable about 13/14th gen overclocking on z790 asus boards. Im not brand loyal. Just a hardware enthusiast, gamer, OCer. Im planning to try out an AMD 9000 series X3D CPU and x870e board along with an AM5 optimus waterblock within the next few months. If I subscribe and join your discord channel do you offer any support/knowledge for AMD users or are you Intel only? Thank you!
First thank you for the $10 ❤❤
Second yep absolutely we do AMD stuff 👍
But I always suggest waiting for me to figure the ins and outs of a platform before adopting it to avoid buyers remorse
@FrameChasers thank you kind sir!
20 yrs ago, pentium 4 used 1.4V
some ppl selling mismatching products and some ppl happily buy them :D
making work is only looking at the present
Pentium 4 was the main reason why people were using AMD at the time, then Core 2 Duo came.
Pentium D was the biggest flop Intel ever made
@@saricubra2867 I guess you know what to use :D
What about the people like me who inadvertently degraded my silicon on my 13900K and 14900K by using the gigabyte INSTANT 6GHz option on their motherboard? This is a messed up situation. Should we all just claim an RMA before the warrant period ends just to have a fresh CPU and run it out of the box with the proper voltages?
Brutal situation, sorry man
wendel was always a software guy. Ive watched him since he was a faceless commentator on tek syndicate before that imploded
is it okay to lock all cores then undervolt it like -0.040? i've tried different stress tests (intel extreme, cinebench, p95) for 30 minutes, they passed and seem stable
Main point.Gentlemen take care of yourselves.
I actually have gone back to a 12700k from a 13700k and will be selling the 13700k. I use my computer for work and can't risk it being down as I wouldn't be able to work.
Edit: I've had one 13700k replaced with an RMA due to not listening to his advise and adjusting clock speeds and voltages. I did on the new one but still don't want to risk going through the process again.
Great to see others realizing that this has been a problem since Zen 2
Zen 3 be like 1.5v for 5GHz on a 5600X but people be like "low load high voltage so it don't matter"🤣🤣
I had a 3700x that would blue screen at idle but it was when AMD was trying to match Intel's idle power consumption with chipset drivers. Rolled back and completely fixed it. Updated again about 6 months later and problem was gone. Just a classic AMD untested update.
$500+ cpus dying out because of bad factory settings is wild. Can’t trust any manufacturer to have your best interests in mind nowadays.
Never heard about Wendel until he made that video with GN. I still took what he said with a truck load of salt and I'm glad I did!
Buildzoid is still the GOAT!
Honestly this is great. It‘ll make the Intel chips cheaper and Intel might have to price their allegedly upcoming chip with 12 P-cores lower than intended. I‘ll gladly take that and manually tune it day one either way
For common user, the 7800X3D is the most logical solution. It works out of the box, without any major problems with settings.
Enthusiasts have 13900 and 14900, common users have 7800X3D.
this is logical, but then you have people on here saying the 7800x3d is the best gaming cpu
it is a decent cpu but bottlenecks any higher tier gpu and has many flaws i.e. amdip
it is a good mid tier thats it
@@OdinAlgeron Your entire comment is wrong
@@OdinAlgeron In essence, the only drawback of the 7800X3D is AMD Dip, in certain situations.
While this may be a problem for professional players, it means nothing for casual players.
Stuttering is always present in one form or another, especially when it comes to the PC platform.
And there is also the question of the price/performance of the entire platform. Here the 7800X3D is unbeatable.
@@delfinigor 12700k says hi
@@OdinAlgeron In my region, the 12700K platform is 100 euros more expensive than the 7800X3D. I included the CPU, CPU cooler, MB and RAM.
Quick question, when I join the discord can I be assisted in how to setup my 7950x3d and 13700k for the best recommended settings?
Intel is going to release a microcode patch reducing certain voltages, but not the base frequency. So they should be fine regarding class action lawsuit.
Wow man. This was extremely eye opening how little techtubers actually know about how CPU voltages work.
15 yrs ago we called degradation burn in
A VID Table is a Table with a VID.
Wendells the guy everyone goes to for a server no one ever went to him for overclocking
Jufes, just out of curiosity, why do you think this is Intel’s problem? From what I can see, this is 100% a mobo manufacturers problem. Specs were given, mobo applied an OV, that OV then gets applied to the OV in the VID for those two cores when they boost, and then it gets multiplied by the temp offset factor. To me, that really has nothing to do with Intel. Perhaps they could have implemented on the firmware that if a voltage offset was detected it would disable turbo. But then again, one could argue that it wouldn’t be an issue if the mobo didn’t OV by default and the chip just ran its factory validated and guaranteed VID table. I think Intel will stay mum, and let the motherboard manufacturers roll out the RMAs. Intel might supply them with chips at cost if they are feeling generous.
Jules, I have to disagree a little. Yes, the tech-tube and enthusiast scene may have little short-term impact on the share price, but I am convinced that the long-term damage to Intel in terms of mindshare will be massive. In the past, people simply went with Intel because they thought they set the standard and were reliable. If that changes, Intel will no longer be the industry leader. Furthermore, this comes at a very unfortunate time for Intel, as the market power of X86 is no longer unchallenged due to the ARM initiative by Qualcomm and Microsoft. Therefore the long-term impact could be huge!
Lol when GN was starting i have seen so much incompetence from his side that i thought like WTF how this skater image dude want to make any review or technical analysis when he doesn't understand even the basics, also the same case is Jayz1cent
Definitely crazy. GN has Equitment that cost as much as some peoples shacks now. Crazy 🤪
Did this comment change the fact that 40%+ intel cpus are failing in server settings?
@@nielsenrainiertungala9391 Intel "i" line is not ment to be used in servers especially not the unlocked K variants, if any company does it it's their fault.
TVB voltages to 1.5v shouldn't be an issue. There's a temperature limit of 70C, that's going to last microseconds before the clock/voltage drops. I don't see how occasional spikes to 1.5v for microseconds would kill a core. Yeah 1.5v is going to kill a CPU if you used fixed clocks/voltages and run it like that continuously, but this is very different to TVB microseconds of boosting.
Completely agree on the SA voltage, 1.6v is crazy especially given SA doesn't even need that much voltage, 1.0v will be enough for many XMP settings.
Because....
Anything over 1.43ish basically causes arcing between cores... Also known as "quantum tunneling" as the fab process gets smaller this becomes a bigger issue....
@@johnnyringo35Something something Fowler-Nordheim timings something, so I understand.
Flaw has been in processors since the 11th generation!
20:05 since day one if you was gonna OC… these kids will never know the woes of having to config jumpers and dip switches for voltage regulators….
good times
I still think the motherboard manufacturer could lower the VID and lock the core ratio in the standard bios profile
This is looking more and more like a motherboard issue, as it would seem that a lot of ASUS boards (as they are one of the leading high end board manufacturer) are the ones CPUs are degrading from and them pumping too much power through, although Intel are still very much at fault also for not being on top of this from the very get go and allowing board vendors to just go nuts on the CPUs.
when there was no issue, Jufes is like, AMDip, etc. When Intel is on Fire, oh 7950 also had this have to downgrade...predictable and funny. :)
I still believe out of the box settings and XMP should be safe and stable. If its not I consider it being against majority of the customers.
Turns out you can push 1.5v through a 35w cpu. Because without power limits, turbo does its own thing, to its detriment.
Locking all the cores at a cpus all core workload speed…the voltage will never go higher then whats fused into cpu for that frequency.
When I bought the 7950X, I saw how much voltage the cores get at boost clock, 1.4-1.45V, I did lock all the cores, undervolted it right away when I bought it. I told the guys on the forum 1 year ago, they didn't understand, even I was fooled that AMD knows better...who's laughing now? I didn't turn on the EXPO profile either, because the SOC consumed +8W unnecessarily, after a few months the processors started to break down and it turned out that the SOC voltage was also too high...🤣🤣🤣
The intel fanboying on this channel is ridiculous. Agreeing that intel should just silently RMA this is insane. As a potential future buyer you want to know that a company will refund or replace en-masse when they fuck up, i.e. That they will guarantee their product. Silently RMA-ing what should be a replacement/refund is not okay.
why will not apple recall m2 why will not amd recall 7900x3d 7950x3d?
Dr. Ian cutress said it's cause of the clamping device is to loose on the Intel chips motherboards...... Lol.......
Where?
@@iceboy1170 it was a short made by that what is it UFD tech that balled dude
Should I lock all core too if I'm using a i9 10850k? not problem as of yet it's been 3 years, I let it boost with all thermal velocity and boost stuffs ON using a 360 aio but would hate to see it die, I love this cpu
Probably not worry… complete different node not as voltage sensitive
thanks for the honest reviews and hard work, glad I found you on RUclips and your videos of deliding and sanding copper ihs was great help.
I build my systems for longevity. My i5 2500k was my main rig for 9 years lol. Now I run an i5 12600k, 4070 with 32G DDR5 and expect it to run for some years.
I don’t know what a VID table is 😂but gladly I listen to Chasers so I don’t have to 🎉
You gotta go dark mode on your notepad too bro 🙏