I would imagine the Italian forces that were engaged in combat on the Eastern front beside the German forces against the Soviets encountered lots of Tokarev rifles. They probably sent several back for T&E.
The SVT was a great early semi-auto platform, a great template to work and improve upon. I think this prototype would have been an excellent combat rifle
Bien Le I know, and if you read my comment then you'd know that I said it was a great starting of point, there where details in the SVT platform that was later adopted and re-used in other better designs such as the G43 rifle(not the G41 because that one used the Bang gastrap system) and tweeked in later fully automatic rifles such as the Type 81, vz 58 and the famous FN FAL or improved the overall design as this Pavesi Prototype. I know the SVT had problems but compare that to this and you can see the improvements. Such as the safety, the action and the field strip process
The Germans not only reused the gas system for the G43, but reused every captured SVT40 as long as it showed to be accurate enough (Soviet manufacturing was not that great), as it was. The Soviets themself reverted to the Moisin only cause it was much more easy to manufacture, and it was enough of a problem to equip their entire, huge, army with a single model.
Risto Mladich Obviously they could, but there is a trade-off between quantity and quality, and this is more stringent in wartime. The more soldiers you want to equip, the more quality controls you have to skip.
Risto Mladich Actually, quality problems in wartime Soviet production were well known, and did not affect only rifle production. Artillery ammunitions, engines, aircrafts, were affected as well. Simply, quantity was more important that quality, and many of the production sites had to be hastly transferred, since the original factories were overrun. Whatever the theory is, the reality is that the Germans tested every captured SVT40, used those of acceptable accuracy, and discarded the others, and the others were a good percentage.
+Morten R Not really the idea here. Or anywhere. Notice how the holes are around the barrel and the barrel only. If they wanted weight reduction, they would do it elsewhere
As always, THANK YOU FOR THIS!!! I had heard there was a "bootleg" copy of the SVT40. It was that "I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy" kinda thing and I tried finding more on it and suddenly a couple years later NATURALLY you would find one!!! You are amazing Sir! It just stands to reason, Just like the Mausers and the Hakim/ Rasheed (of course they were GIVEN that whole set of manufacturing and tooling.) AND this is not one of those knock offs they make is a cave in a mountain (which to me is STILL pretty cool- I just dont want to shoot one first!). STILL, this is such a great find. WAY TO GO!!!
*My ALL TIME FAVORITE WWII game, "Enlisted", has this rifle in the game & I did NOT know this rifle existed, till I played the game and saw it on Italian Troops... The developers of the game, "Gajinn", which are the same developers of the very popular & realistic Tank, Airplane & other fighting vehicles game named "War Thunder", which is also infamously known for "Leaks", which come from the games files being "leaked", which shows classifed information about certain Tank models from the US Military, which are ones that are NOT public information, did a GREAT job on making the weapons, vehicles & locations, for the most part, very historically accurate... So the Ammuegra feels really fun to use & really cool to look at, since the developers did a good job when it comes to the details of the weapons as well.* *If you are someone who plays video games & you are a WWII buff, like myself, then you NEED to play "Enlisted"... The developers, once again, did a great job of putting, MANY different countries, weapons from WWII & before, in the game... With very accurate information & details... They have EXTREMELY RARE weapons & vehicles in then game... The developers recently added the "Pavesi", which is another rare Italian Semiautomatic rifle used in WWII... I believe you have a video on the Pavesi, I am about to go watch.*
This gun is getting added to the game Enlisted, so I searched to learn more about it. Ian, I swear the devs watch your videos to decide what guns to put in the game.
A polar bear snuck into the factory one day smuggled in for some olive oil covered in cosomoline... Then just quietly snuck out leaving a lil biscuit for em
Do people at museums and these reference collection know about you? You know, without you calling up and telling them. Do you get the "Hey, it's Ian from Forgotten Weapons!" a lot?
I love the svt-40 but wished they mad it even simpler and more idiot proof. There's a lot of room for refinement, that dust cover looks so much easier to remove then an svt-40.
The similarities to the SVT and SKS are obvious, as are the general Russian styling of the parts. Pretty sure that's a 5-round magazine, though. Considering how far a normal SVT magazine protrudes from the receiver, and noting that even 10-round magazines for .308 rifles, which use a rimless cartridge, are also longer, I see no way this could be even close to a 10-round magazine; the proportions are just wrong.
not to sound ignorant but it looks like the AR10 OF SVT'S clearly a scaled up version of the gun. I got a theory if persay there were Italians fighting in the Russia during WW2 its possible a solderer may of captured a svt and showed it to his command whom instantly liked the simple simi auto function and ask for a copy of the rifle.
Not much of a surprise that it didn't make it into mass-production: Beretta totally overdid it with the design (again), it looks waaaaaayyyy too good and valuable to be used in something as crude and dirty as a war. ^^ A rifle like this one belongs to a shooting range to impress your buddies and have a good time.
V Guyver Agreed. It looks like something a tarted-up Beretta employee wearing white velvet gloves would offer to a 1900-1920s crowd with a little more money in their pockets, praising it as Beretta's newest flagship for recreational shooting and uncoerced entertainment at the local shooting club with good friends and potential affiliates.
About 7 to 8 years ago i believe i saw one in the special weapons section oat Cabelas in Minnesota.That heat shield and muzzle brake looks identical to the one i saw.
Is that leather buffer impregnated with something then? Or is it just a normal piece of leather? And I'm thinking the firing pin may be seized from either wear on the top sear( I could be incorrect) or the grease, just like in a mauser bolt action, May have hardened from the years gone by and extreme oxidation of the oil content of the grease may have occurred.
When can you do a video on Marlin Pump shotguns? I recently discovered that they do exist such as the Model 17, that resembles an M1897. But them sen to be pretty uncommon and i have yet to see one in person. Im really interested in learning more about them since i grew up around my dads 1969 Model 336 Texan. Thanks
Of course, by the serial number it doesn't seem it's an early example so it's probably safe to shoot unless they just put a random serial number on there.
I don't know whats going on, but every video of yours has kids videos as the suggested videos and up next is "Baby Panda Play and Learn".. i think someone is fucking with your chanel
I would imagine the Italian forces that were engaged in combat on the Eastern front beside the German forces against the Soviets encountered lots of Tokarev rifles. They probably sent several back for T&E.
Given the fact the G-43 pretty much ripped off the SVT's gas system, that is very possible.
William Prince
@@rahbaralhaq Too bad they didn't rip off some of its other design aspects. The SVT was still the better gun in almost all respects.
Impressive how closely the FN FAL bolt followed the design of the SVT bolt.
The SVT was a great early semi-auto platform, a great template to work and improve upon. I think this prototype would have been an excellent combat rifle
Bien Le I know, and if you read my comment then you'd know that I said it was a great starting of point, there where details in the SVT platform that was later adopted and re-used in other better designs such as the G43 rifle(not the G41 because that one used the Bang gastrap system) and tweeked in later fully automatic rifles such as the Type 81, vz 58 and the famous FN FAL or improved the overall design as this Pavesi Prototype. I know the SVT had problems but compare that to this and you can see the improvements. Such as the safety, the action and the field strip process
Automatics are generally disliked by sniper due to the ejected brass giving away there position.
The Germans not only reused the gas system for the G43, but reused every captured SVT40 as long as it showed to be accurate enough (Soviet manufacturing was not that great), as it was. The Soviets themself reverted to the Moisin only cause it was much more easy to manufacture, and it was enough of a problem to equip their entire, huge, army with a single model.
Risto Mladich Obviously they could, but there is a trade-off between quantity and quality, and this is more stringent in wartime. The more soldiers you want to equip, the more quality controls you have to skip.
Risto Mladich Actually, quality problems in wartime Soviet production were well known, and did not affect only rifle production. Artillery ammunitions, engines, aircrafts, were affected as well. Simply, quantity was more important that quality, and many of the production sites had to be hastly transferred, since the original factories were overrun. Whatever the theory is, the reality is that the Germans tested every captured SVT40, used those of acceptable accuracy, and discarded the others, and the others were a good percentage.
The more vent-holes, the cooler it looks
GET IT? IT'S A PUN
Icee what you did there. I'll see myself out.
No
Baker Tankersley Sorrynotsorry
+Morten R Not really the idea here. Or anywhere. Notice how the holes are around the barrel and the barrel only. If they wanted weight reduction, they would do it elsewhere
Will Bond I suspect he was joking, but you are still correct
As always, THANK YOU FOR THIS!!! I had heard there was a "bootleg" copy of the SVT40. It was that "I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy" kinda thing and I tried finding more on it and suddenly a couple years later NATURALLY you would find one!!! You are amazing Sir! It just stands to reason, Just like the Mausers and the Hakim/ Rasheed (of course they were GIVEN that whole set of manufacturing and tooling.) AND this is not one of those knock offs they make is a cave in a mountain (which to me is STILL pretty cool- I just dont want to shoot one first!). STILL, this is such a great find. WAY TO GO!!!
*My ALL TIME FAVORITE WWII game, "Enlisted", has this rifle in the game & I did NOT know this rifle existed, till I played the game and saw it on Italian Troops... The developers of the game, "Gajinn", which are the same developers of the very popular & realistic Tank, Airplane & other fighting vehicles game named "War Thunder", which is also infamously known for "Leaks", which come from the games files being "leaked", which shows classifed information about certain Tank models from the US Military, which are ones that are NOT public information, did a GREAT job on making the weapons, vehicles & locations, for the most part, very historically accurate... So the Ammuegra feels really fun to use & really cool to look at, since the developers did a good job when it comes to the details of the weapons as well.*
*If you are someone who plays video games & you are a WWII buff, like myself, then you NEED to play "Enlisted"... The developers, once again, did a great job of putting, MANY different countries, weapons from WWII & before, in the game... With very accurate information & details... They have EXTREMELY RARE weapons & vehicles in then game... The developers recently added the "Pavesi", which is another rare Italian Semiautomatic rifle used in WWII... I believe you have a video on the Pavesi, I am about to go watch.*
A most holy rifle.
This gun is getting added to the game Enlisted, so I searched to learn more about it. Ian, I swear the devs watch your videos to decide what guns to put in the game.
If I came across this rifle with no context I would think it was some rare prototype of an SVT. You are right. Clearly a copy.
Now that's just too cool! I guess the Italians knew a good design when the saw one..
A polar bear snuck into the factory one day smuggled in for some olive oil covered in cosomoline...
Then just quietly snuck out leaving a lil biscuit for em
Do people at museums and these reference collection know about you? You know, without you calling up and telling them. Do you get the "Hey, it's Ian from Forgotten Weapons!" a lot?
I did get recognized by a Beretta employee who didn't know I was going to be there, yes. :)
+Forgotten Weapons When hanging around the gun shop, your name, and yourvideos, come up in conversation fairly regularly. You're Internet famous!
I like the new thumbnail style Ian.
Interesting video as always. You've really improved image and audio quality too Ian, thanks for that
I love the svt-40 but wished they mad it even simpler and more idiot proof. There's a lot of room for refinement, that dust cover looks so much easier to remove then an svt-40.
It seems they really had a thing for exhaust holes
Speed holes.
Holes to get full of crap!
+Anne Isopod What's so glorious about the holes on this rifle?
Well, during use, this gun probably got so heated that it needed to chill a bit.
Snow fo show for D polar echo G's n the Eskimos..
Looks more like an attempt to make the svt better as opposed to a direct copy
The bot system looks very much like the Ljungman AG-42 I used to have.
The similarities to the SVT and SKS are obvious, as are the general Russian styling of the parts. Pretty sure that's a 5-round magazine, though. Considering how far a normal SVT magazine protrudes from the receiver, and noting that even 10-round magazines for .308 rifles, which use a rimless cartridge, are also longer, I see no way this could be even close to a 10-round magazine; the proportions are just wrong.
not to sound ignorant but it looks like the AR10 OF SVT'S clearly a scaled up version of the gun. I got a theory if persay there were Italians fighting in the Russia during WW2 its possible a solderer may of captured a svt and showed it to his command whom instantly liked the simple simi auto function and ask for a copy of the rifle.
Well it does fire a cartridge originally meant for anti-plane machine guns (biplanes that is, but still).
Not much of a surprise that it didn't make it into mass-production: Beretta totally overdid it with the design (again), it looks waaaaaayyyy too good and valuable to be used in something as crude and dirty as a war. ^^
A rifle like this one belongs to a shooting range to impress your buddies and have a good time.
I was thinking the same thing. looks far more for sporting than military use. This version looks and functions a little better.
V Guyver
Agreed. It looks like something a tarted-up Beretta employee wearing white velvet gloves would offer to a 1900-1920s crowd with a little more money in their pockets, praising it as Beretta's newest flagship for recreational shooting and uncoerced entertainment at the local shooting club with good friends and potential affiliates.
Handsome rifle..
Elegant.
Haha first time I've ever heard Brescia described as exotic :-D
Would it be fair to say this is a slightly improved SVT? That upper receiver seems way more field clean friendly.
Keep doing good work, gun jesus!
Does have a lot of features the FAL had years later...
Are you sure it's in 8x59 Breda and not 7.62x54R? My guess is, from the stripper clip guide, it looks like it was still for a rimmed cartridge.
*just* like an SVT
Cool stuff!
Here in Italy ? Great news.
you should include a tiny jinglr on the single tile "forgotten weapons" intro so i dont have to check if my volume is down whenever i tune in :p
i believe that i have seen some kind of marking under the rear sight on the barrel ir bareel block, but not sure.
Looks like here is some writing on the barrel, underneath the sight.
Is there really any benefit to the extra 3 inches of curved finger groove in the stock that would justify the effort to cut it?
About 7 to 8 years ago i believe i saw one in the special weapons section oat Cabelas in Minnesota.That heat shield and muzzle brake looks identical to the one i saw.
Very cool.
Looks like one of those rifles built for black ops use, can't be traced to the nation of origin. Love mystery guns.
Kinda looks like a Hakim on the rear of the receiver.
Its a good system to copy.
Does anyone know if there are any working variants of the MG151 in museums or private hands, or if there are any Japanese belt fed aircraft MG's?
so best guess an SVT copy produced by pavessi or one of its subcontractors?
How does it operate?
Just like a Tokarev rifle, long stroke 3-piece piston, tilting bolt
The tokarev uses a short stroke piston
Ian, are you planning on reviewing a STAR Z-84? It would be awesome
that looks way easier to strip than my svt
Have you tried jamming a cartridge to hold the recoil sprint?
+phileas007 I have not. How do you mean?
Tyler I meant "spring", not sprint
You push the cover forward and catch the spring against the back of the receiver using a cartridge
Is that leather buffer impregnated with something then? Or is it just a normal piece of leather? And I'm thinking the firing pin may be seized from either wear on the top sear( I could be incorrect) or the grease, just like in a mauser bolt action, May have hardened from the years gone by and extreme oxidation of the oil content of the grease may have occurred.
When can you do a video on Marlin Pump shotguns? I recently discovered that they do exist such as the Model 17, that resembles an M1897. But them sen to be pretty uncommon and i have yet to see one in person. Im really interested in learning more about them since i grew up around my dads 1969 Model 336 Texan. Thanks
An SVT-40 doesn't have a guide rod on the top cover.
How'd you end up in Italy, Ian?
oh snap
Would love to know if it was in firing condition.
Prototype rifle, wouldn't and shouldn't shoot it.
Fair enough.
Of course, by the serial number it doesn't seem it's an early example so it's probably safe to shoot unless they just put a random serial number on there.
Got some 8mm Breda and a rope? I have an idea
Just like an SVT, maybe its a SVT
can You get your hands on a wa2000?
Dang
nice copy of the Russian rifle
Another catwalk rifle from the Italians.
vz 58
Man I'm getting real tired of those bullshit NRA ads on these videos
I don't know whats going on, but every video of yours has kids videos as the suggested videos and up next is "Baby Panda Play and Learn".. i think someone is fucking with your chanel
It's because the video is (quite rightly) categorised as "Education"