cant blame him. i mean, this looks like a proper wolfenstein rifle. makes me wish the german army did adopt it, just so it had a cool weapon to add to the bunch.
@raharuko low IQ comment from someone who doesn't understand that military relics from once powerful militaries are very sought after collectibles. Cry all you want but germany in ww2 was an extremely powerful foe and because of it that makes anything from them extremely sought after on the collectors market
this is a perfect demo of why certain weapons don't get adopted by their militaries, just going off the basic disassembly it would be near impossible to fix and or service this in the field.
Yeah, I do try to understand how much infighting that if it did not happen would have made the horrible war last even longer. How many lives would have been different.
I'm seven years late lol xD But you do realize this is just a prototype? had this been adopted, it would have been simplified to ease disassembly. That's something totally normal for a prototype
My grandparents were directly affected by the Nazis and I think that even though the Nazis did horrific things, the flag and swastika should not be censored because it is part of history. We should not censor history thus I don't think people should be censoring the swastika. Just my opinion. If people want to be offended by parts of history, let them be offended because we should not hide or deny history just because someone feels offended. The only reason we should ever censor something is if it is advocating violence or hate towards others and this video does not advocate either of those so I think the flag should be able to be displayed on the thumbnail of this video. “Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it” -Winston Churchill Great video none the less. I really enjoy these videos
The "quote", from a 1948 speech, attributed to Churchill, was a paraphrase of “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” (George Santayana-1905).
here in Denmark the Jewish community got one of the biggest retail platform to ban Nazi things by telling how arfull they had and everyone who collect German ww2 is nazis..
Completely fascinating; and the piece itself; completely crazy. The egg-shell "stock" is jaw dropping mad. What an amazing channel; there's always another design effort you never would have thought of.
I wonder if the reason for the hollow sheet metal stock wonkiness has something to do with trying to meet some requirement for the Fallschirmjäger - maybe weight and the ability to take it apart "easily" for stowage.
This gun looks like a gun that should've seen actual use. It looks better than the G43 and likely also functions better. I wish I could get my hands on one as easily, that's for sure.
Ian, I am always impressed at how you casually use the proper technical term for nearly every last component of the firearms you showcase. I can never use technical terminology fluently, even when I know the technology and the terms very well. If I was as awkward and clumsy with my tools as I am with their names, I would have broken my neck years ago. You on the other hand, are like the poet laureate of the history of weapons manufacturing. It's a great talent and makes your videos highly watchable.
Guns like this one (which I have virtually zero documentation on) I poke and prod until I figure it out. There are only so many ways to put a gun together, and I've done enough strange ones that I can usually figure things out.
very cool rifle, but I can see why it was dropped, it's an absolute nightmare for field stripping, it would just take far too long to reassemble in an emergency.
That was one from the Cody museum I believe. Either a US carbine or SMG prototype. Can't remember exactly. A recent video anyway. It's at the very end of that video.
@Kerosin Fuchs This is a dangerous move,aimed at suppressing certain facts which are considered inappropriate by a group of people who cannot tolerate reality. This is how historical records and documentation is altered,to suit present thinking,a very insidious form of censorship and control.
@@commodorjack8633 There seems to be a universal attempt to suppress information and details about Nazi atrocities during the thirties and the war,almost as if it is certain people's interest to hide everything. This is a defamation of history,leading to a future generation knowing nothing about it. Eventually,even the war itself will be altered,probably insinuating that it was all our fault from the start.
NS Germany was Valhalla on Earth, a grand transformation form the ashes of WW1 into a prosperous nation full of dignity, spirit and traditionalism. Aye, it would be weird when the only thing a person know's is a degenerate hedonist lifestyle.
Ian, you have my respect, in that your extensive study and research gives you the intuitive sense of how complicated these firearms function. I know how meticulous German manufacturing was, and it makes me thankful in part to the same approval process that what could be considered "crude" in terms of presentation, still gave the allies a superior advantage in the ability to field effective weapons in greater numbers.
The bolt hold open reminds me of the SKS. It's just a little tab that's pushed up by the mag body. You can also push it up yourself with the mag out because it's not spring loaded, just gravity or the mag body holding it one way or the other.
another great video! It seems like this mechanism is the product of a reactive design process. Just keep adding things to fix each issue as they come up. awful lot if parts.
I know it's late on my post dont know if you're going to see this but anyway I'm not a expert just someone who really enjoys your videos. It looks like the hole in the back of the receiver is a cleaning rod access point instead of being a take-down detent. If It was ment to hinge open you would have to remove the front take-down pin to remove the op-rod/metal handguard which would defeat the point of it to hinge open. Awsome content i watch all your videos best channel in my opinion.
While unusual, depending on the gauge of the steel, the wood over stamped stock could potentially be fairly light, strong, and comfortable, at least compared with the early '40s alternatives.
Probably. But with the wood clamping onto the tang like that, making it the only means of attachment, I have serious doubts such thin wood would be up to the rigors of the battlefield.
Ian, do you see any issues with the rifle as it is and why it was not adopted ? I mean from construction point of view. Any weak parts ? The trigger group is a bit complicated as you mentioned, but the locking block looks like a decent idea to me ...
Ian, I remember in one of your videos, you were talking to Karl about your SKS that he had described as being very crudely made. If possible, I would like to see a video on it.
The Sig 320 pistol uses a similar disconnect system. In that the trigger bar slips from the sear during the trigger pull. it does not have the extra disconnecter piece, as the amount of movement between the release of the striker and the disconnect of the trigger bar from the sear, is very small.
Howdy Zach! So to answer your question 2 years later... The reason. Is, a battle rifle is not as versatile as an assault rifle. With an assault rifle you can adapt it for CQB or medium long range, really a lot of goals can be accomplished. The battle rifle meant to be a precise rifle able to hold it's own in a fire fight and get long range picks but not necessarily a sniper, it isn't meant to assault or rush B as it were. It's mission might require laying down quickly and a big mag would mean you'd need a nip of when realistically you also don't want to add extra weight. 10 to 15 round mag capacity is generally great and the battle rifles with this amount tend to be the most effective for those reasons. There may be a few scenarios someone wishes they had a larger mag but in order to end up in that scenario they would have had to have made a big mistake
My first thought was it was a resource saving thing as a prototype, since you dont want to be using a lot of wood for what is basically a test for the action, but it being a weight saving measure does make more sense
hi, nice vid. i wonder if you are aware of the roller-ball in the front of that type of pen you are using to point with, are mostly made from tungsten carbide. this stuff has a mohs-hardness of 9.5 and should be easily be able to scratch any kind of steel :D
Ian, as the lockup between the bolt and the barrel doesn't occur until the op-rod is fully forward, what prevents the rifle from firing out of battery? Does the op-rod prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin unless it is full forward and therefore in battery? Thanks.
You shouldn't have blurred out the swastika in the thumbnail. As a fellow history buff, I believe that history should be represented as accurately as possible so that future society can remember the mistakes that we and our ancestors made. Just my unrequested opinion. Update: Shit, I just saw your video addressing this. It restored and extended my faith in you as an honest consumer of history. Keep up the great work!
Seems like they originally built this particular rifle without the wood guard and stock, but then covered those components with the wood, maybe for the sake of presentation.
I would bet that the rear crosspin is temporary, because that rear, unfinished disassembly button is completely superfluous with it in place. If you imagine that the button is functional and the rear pin is not there it becomes a swing-open design (like an AR) with the front crosspin as the swivel.
Was the inner metal part of the stock originally welded to the receiver? it seems like it wouldn't be structurally sufficient to handle the recoil of 8x57 if the only thing holding the stock on was the two wood sides of the stock.
No, it's a dufflecut in the metal stock. Naturally the full length metal stock is meant to handle a hard paratrooper landing (or just being dropped..). The wooden outer shells is needed if you use the weapon in extreme cold or warm conditions.
Hey Ian is there anyway I can email you? I've got some questions on some firearms my grandfather will be passing down to me. I've only seen them once I believe they're a series of buffalo bill rifles. Absolutely beautiful never been shot outside the factory!
If this used a cut-down MG13 magazine, could it use the regular 25-round magazine like the Mauser Selbstlader and the G.41? If it could, was there any real advantage in having those magazines interchangeable? I mean, sure, it would be nice to fire twenty-five rounds before having to reload, but would that be any real advantage if these weapons went into production? I suppose the one advantage would be not having to change the tooling - you would just be able to use slightly modified MG13 magazine stamps.
Hogging out all the wood to fit over the metal appears like it would make the stock a lot less durable than it seems before disassembly. I suppose that on a post-war weapon, that it would be done with injection-moulded plastic and be fairly strong.
It's a dufflecut. Originally there would be a full length metal stock underneath. It's supposed to be stronger than a solid wooden stock, with hard paratrooper landings in mind.
there may not be much new to say on it as i've read about it on your site but i would like to see and hear about the MG-30/Solothurn S2-200, seem to me like it would have been a geart mg but got taken over by the MG-34 and belt fed mgs
I will need to watch this again to get my head around it. It's certainly a bit odd to be honest. No chance you got an idea of total number made? If this is number thirteen, surely we;re well beyond basic prototype and into production testing and military trials?
Never seen that locking system before and I'm wondering how repeatable that lock up is. From what I know about what makes a rifle accurate it seems like that would be an effective system for repeat-ability, but I'm really having trouble telling.
I'm having a really hard time trying to understand the stock, and like Ian says I've never seen nor heard of another like it. Why not just leave it all metal (close enough in weight, stronger, quickly stamped out) or all wood like a conventional rifle with a few bits of metal hardware if it needs to detach? I'd almost say it was intended like a "veneer" for the aesthetic value, but in a purely functional military rifle of this era that makes no sense either, and I'd imagine that thin wood shell would split easily in combat. In the end, it's doubling the required materials plus adding time, complexity and expense to the production (all things you're trying to avoid in wartime) in order to end up with a stock that's objectively worse than just picking one material or the other. Anyone have a solid theory on this decision?
Why not all metal? Well when the two places you are fighting in are russia and the sahara some heat insulation is really nice. And wood supricingly good at that.
Maybe a resource cutting method. Use as much steel as possible then insulate it with a thin piece of wood instead of relying completely on wood, or relying completely on steel which doesn't insulate well.
I cannot help but feel that the metal inner in the rear of the stock was supposed to be one with the rest of the gun, even the zigzag pressed grooves line up. Why it was detached, or never joined I cannot tell.
If there is no disconnector and you hold the sear down in a hammer fired gun like that, instead of fire full auto i think the bolt and the hammer will just drop together and fail to fire the next round because the hammer drops too slowly.
Great video Ian! I definitely agree that this rifle was submitted for Luftwaffe trials, especially after seeing the extent of stamped construction. Must have been an attempt at weight saving measures to hollow out the buttstock like that. One would think with all the stamped metal in the buttstock it can't weigh much less than a solid wood stock? Seemed like they got hung up on weight reduction for paratroopers and ignored the rest of the criteria haha. Did you get a chance to weigh the rifle?
This is a pretty creepy rifle. The hole in the back of the receiver surrounded by mangled hammer marks, and the tab inside that's supposed to slot into it, but it doesn't... it's just, bleh... Also, it's serial number 13. I wouldn't pay a dime for this cursed object.
I wonder how much of the estimated price is due to that little eagle.. I want to think not any but one can't help but ponder. Cool to see something that isn't from one of the big firearms developers of Germany at the time!
I have read about these, and seen pictures, but this is the first time I ever have seen the inside. Well that is a really interesting stock. I wonder why they did that. I mean it could not had been to make the stock easier to make, ha. Otherwise the general design, lock up excluded, seems to be taking a page from most good semi-auto designs of the time. The lock however, first time I ever saw that, ha. That trigger group is...umm...very German, ha.
Man imagine how well Germany would have done if hitler didn't intervene as much as he did. Small arms development, Dunkirk, the invasion of the Soviet Union.
I'm guessing that the wood furniture was made this way as a prototype and that plastic would replace it in production. Very interesting rifle but it looks more semi-auto shotgun with the twin transfer bars and dropping locking block than rifle.
I must ask Ian, have you ever come across any examples of the Brocock air cartridge range? I saw one recently at the Pitt Rivers museum in Oxford that I must've missed on my dozens of previous visits. The UK Anti-Social Behavior Act 2003 prevented them from being transferred or sold in any manner which promptly killed the market though there are a few thousand in the hands of those who owned them on their centerfire certificates.
the Germans are masters of weapons. great engineering machinist especially with sheet metal. even today they make great items besides weapons. truly smart people. looks as if you could load the mag and put lead through the pipe. of course i wouldn't want to without getting checked out first. then clean and add to my collection. lol. good video.
Sold for $63,250.... Someone reeaally wanted that rifle.
cant blame him. i mean, this looks like a proper wolfenstein rifle. makes me wish the german army did adopt it, just so it had a cool weapon to add to the bunch.
@@sollitdude1 came here to say pretty much that; it's extremely dieselpunk in its aesthetics.
jesus rich fuckin neonazis lol
@raharuko low IQ comment from someone who doesn't understand that military relics from once powerful militaries are very sought after collectibles. Cry all you want but germany in ww2 was an extremely powerful foe and because of it that makes anything from them extremely sought after on the collectors market
@@sollitdude1 I bet this dude's like 14
Is it a standard operating procedure to say "dud dud di du di duu" when releasing the magazine?
Yes, I had to translate that from the German manual.
I laughed more than I probably should have at that. :)
If a German Police Officer reloads (what doesn't happen so often) he's "dud di du"ing too. :D
Just a small ritual to calm the machine spirit of the rifle.
+NoharaLoco same
this is a perfect demo of why certain weapons don't get adopted by their militaries, just going off the basic disassembly it would be near impossible to fix and or service this in the field.
Yeah, I do try to understand how much infighting that if it did not happen would have made the horrible war last even longer. How many lives would have been different.
Alot of the ergonomics look ak in nature
I'm seven years late lol xD But you do realize this is just a prototype? had this been adopted, it would have been simplified to ease disassembly. That's something totally normal for a prototype
My grandparents were directly affected by the Nazis and I think that even though the Nazis did horrific things, the flag and swastika should not be censored because it is part of history. We should not censor history thus I don't think people should be censoring the swastika. Just my opinion. If people want to be offended by parts of history, let them be offended because we should not hide or deny history just because someone feels offended. The only reason we should ever censor something is if it is advocating violence or hate towards others and this video does not advocate either of those so I think the flag should be able to be displayed on the thumbnail of this video.
“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”
-Winston Churchill
Great video none the less. I really enjoy these videos
BrandoSpoke blame youtube
BrandoSpoke I thought Santayana said that.
The "quote", from a 1948 speech, attributed to Churchill, was a paraphrase of “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” (George Santayana-1905).
Thank you I appreciate you saying what needed to be stated
here in Denmark the Jewish community got one of the biggest retail platform to ban Nazi things by telling how arfull they had and everyone who collect German ww2 is nazis..
Completely fascinating; and the piece itself; completely crazy. The egg-shell "stock" is jaw dropping mad. What an amazing channel; there's always another design effort you never would have thought of.
Agree! I wonder what kind of wood it is?! Really shows how prescious supplies were that we often take for granted
so in theory you could put a standard mg-18 magazine on that thing, making it the highest capacity semi-auto rifle of its time.
Could you put the 75 round AA drum for the MG13 on it? 🤔
@@polygondwanaland8390 Had to google it, but it has the same locking mechanism, so apart from being heavy nothing really prevents it.
I wonder if the reason for the hollow sheet metal stock wonkiness has something to do with trying to meet some requirement for the Fallschirmjäger - maybe weight and the ability to take it apart "easily" for stowage.
This gun looks like a gun that should've seen actual use. It looks better than the G43 and likely also functions better. I wish I could get my hands on one as easily, that's for sure.
Question
How the fuck do you measure the greatness of a rifle
I'd say this would be unfun (to say the least) to disassemble
😮
Ian, I am always impressed at how you casually use the proper technical term for nearly every last component of the firearms you showcase.
I can never use technical terminology fluently, even when I know the technology and the terms very well. If I was as awkward and clumsy with my tools as I am with their names, I would have broken my neck years ago.
You on the other hand, are like the poet laureate of the history of weapons manufacturing. It's a great talent and makes your videos highly watchable.
Ian, do you typically have info on how to disassemble weapons like this, or do you just figure it out after messing around with them after a while?
Guns like this one (which I have virtually zero documentation on) I poke and prod until I figure it out. There are only so many ways to put a gun together, and I've done enough strange ones that I can usually figure things out.
hes been stumped a couple of times but he doesnt own them so he cant whack and pry thankfully.
very cool rifle, but I can see why it was dropped, it's an absolute nightmare for field stripping, it would just take far too long to reassemble in an emergency.
The trigger, in my oppinion, really show how progressive the trial and error process was on the fabrication of the gun.
Amazing.
Have you ever broken or damaged anything you looked at Ian?
I think he fixed something accidentally in one of his videos once :P
If I'm correct it was a pistol firing mechanism . Can't remember the video name :/
+Jesper O (RaDeus) If anyone could link it I would be so very grateful.
That was one from the Cody museum I believe. Either a US carbine or SMG prototype. Can't remember exactly. A recent video anyway. It's at the very end of that video.
How did he fix it? Did I miss something because it stills jams in the end, doesn't it?
Great video as always Ian. That's a beautiful rifle right there.
"puhhh" -ian 2016
lol
Lennart Hoek
The most french pronounced word on the channel ;)
The most french pronounced word on the channel ;)
He had to censor the flag because RUclips flagged it. Look up his earlier video that addresses this controversy.
@Kerosin Fuchs This is a dangerous move,aimed at suppressing certain facts which are considered inappropriate by a group of people who cannot tolerate reality. This is how historical records and documentation is altered,to suit present thinking,a very insidious form of censorship and control.
@@hugebartlett1884 what terror! nobody will know about nazis because youtube doesn't want people posting nazi imagery on their site
@@commodorjack8633 There seems to be a universal attempt to suppress information and details about Nazi atrocities during the thirties and the war,almost as if it is certain people's interest to hide everything. This is a defamation of history,leading to a future generation knowing nothing about it. Eventually,even the war itself will be altered,probably insinuating that it was all our fault from the start.
@@hugebartlett1884 ok dumbass.
@@commodorjack8633 "Life is too short to get into vitriolic arguments on RUclips about this"
-Ian
"Wow, It's really weird inside.” A most apt description of Nazi era Germany itself! Thanks!
NS Germany was Valhalla on Earth, a grand transformation form the ashes of WW1 into a prosperous nation full of dignity, spirit and traditionalism. Aye, it would be weird when the only thing a person know's is a degenerate hedonist lifestyle.
@@knives9284 uhm... Are you for real, bud? "Valhalla on earth"? Like, thats even nuttier than the shit the Wendler spouts. Way to go...
@@knives9284 Ladies and Gentlemen, we got him.
12 years free
Ian, you have my respect, in that your extensive study and research gives you the intuitive sense of how complicated these firearms function.
I know how meticulous German manufacturing was, and it makes me thankful in part to the same approval process that what could be considered "crude" in terms of presentation, still gave the allies a superior advantage in the ability to field effective weapons in greater numbers.
The bolt hold open reminds me of the SKS. It's just a little tab that's pushed up by the mag body. You can also push it up yourself with the mag out because it's not spring loaded, just gravity or the mag body holding it one way or the other.
another great video! It seems like this mechanism is the product of a reactive design process. Just keep adding things to fix each issue as they come up. awful lot if parts.
I imagine this would been an another iconic WW2 rifle if it made it into mass production and distribution
This is straight out of valkyria chronicles
I know right,I was just about to comment that. It looks like one of the upgraded versions of the Lenfield
I know it's late on my post dont know if you're going to see this but anyway I'm not a expert just someone who really enjoys your videos. It looks like the hole in the back of the receiver is a cleaning rod access point instead of being a take-down detent. If It was ment to hinge open you would have to remove the front take-down pin to remove the op-rod/metal handguard which would defeat the point of it to hinge open. Awsome content i watch all your videos best channel in my opinion.
While unusual, depending on the gauge of the steel, the wood over stamped stock could potentially be fairly light, strong, and comfortable, at least compared with the early '40s alternatives.
Probably. But with the wood clamping onto the tang like that, making it the only means of attachment, I have serious doubts such thin wood would be up to the rigors of the battlefield.
Crude and rough looking but I really like the design of it, great video!
Hey gun Jesus I love your videos I’ve been watching for years a lot of history has passed threw your hands
Ian, do you see any issues with the rifle as it is and why it was not adopted ? I mean from construction point of view. Any weak parts ? The trigger group is a bit complicated as you mentioned, but the locking block looks like a decent idea to me ...
Ian, I remember in one of your videos, you were talking to Karl about your SKS that he had described as being very crudely made. If possible, I would like to see a video on it.
It's a nice looking rifle with some really cool operating system in it.
This looks very similar mechanically to the Maroszek rifle, and even shares some aesthetic choices. I wonder if there was some inspiration?
The Sig 320 pistol uses a similar disconnect system. In that the trigger bar slips from the sear during the trigger pull.
it does not have the extra disconnecter piece, as the amount of movement between the release of the striker and the disconnect of the trigger bar from the sear, is very small.
You are an excellent historian and Firearms technician
Why cut the mag down ? A 30round battle rifle makes sense to me 😂
Howdy Zach! So to answer your question 2 years later... The reason. Is, a battle rifle is not as versatile as an assault rifle. With an assault rifle you can adapt it for CQB or medium long range, really a lot of goals can be accomplished. The battle rifle meant to be a precise rifle able to hold it's own in a fire fight and get long range picks but not necessarily a sniper, it isn't meant to assault or rush B as it were. It's mission might require laying down quickly and a big mag would mean you'd need a nip of when realistically you also don't want to add extra weight. 10 to 15 round mag capacity is generally great and the battle rifles with this amount tend to be the most effective for those reasons. There may be a few scenarios someone wishes they had a larger mag but in order to end up in that scenario they would have had to have made a big mistake
More agile
Yep, I Will Never Understand Why People Nerf Greatness.
@@lastdayonearth8381 I Will Never Understand Why People Type Like This
@@TheTuttle99 I Will Never Understand Why People Care. They See This Way Of Typing And They Just Can't Control Themselves.
Maybe with the sheet metal inner stock they tried to save weight to get this into the specs for the Fallschirm Jäger Gewehr?
That was my thought as well, particularly with that foregrip. (How much weight would that actually save?)
My first thought was it was a resource saving thing as a prototype, since you dont want to be using a lot of wood for what is basically a test for the action, but it being a weight saving measure does make more sense
If it's for the Luftwaffe, they should have made the stock from balsa wood.....
Thanks Ian , for another factual and interesting video .
hi, nice vid. i wonder if you are aware of the roller-ball in the front of that type of pen you are using to point with, are mostly made from tungsten carbide. this stuff has a mohs-hardness of 9.5 and should be easily be able to scratch any kind of steel :D
Ian, as the lockup between the bolt and the barrel doesn't occur until the op-rod is fully forward, what prevents the rifle from firing out of battery? Does the op-rod prevent the hammer from striking the firing pin unless it is full forward and therefore in battery? Thanks.
You shouldn't have blurred out the swastika in the thumbnail. As a fellow history buff, I believe that history should be represented as accurately as possible so that future society can remember the mistakes that we and our ancestors made. Just my unrequested opinion.
Update: Shit, I just saw your video addressing this. It restored and extended my faith in you as an honest consumer of history. Keep up the great work!
Lot of thought into making this light weight. Shame Ian doesn't mention it.
Seems like they originally built this particular rifle without the wood guard and stock, but then covered those components with the wood, maybe for the sake of presentation.
So, outside the trigger group, how reliable/accurate do you think this style of bolt group would be? Great stuff as always Ian.
Seems to me like it would have been pretty good...
I would bet that the rear crosspin is temporary, because that rear, unfinished disassembly button is completely superfluous with it in place. If you imagine that the button is functional and the rear pin is not there it becomes a swing-open design (like an AR) with the front crosspin as the swivel.
I get the BAR AK feel from this gun just a lot different
Was the inner metal part of the stock originally welded to the receiver? it seems like it wouldn't be structurally sufficient to handle the recoil of 8x57 if the only thing holding the stock on was the two wood sides of the stock.
That rifle is gorgeous.
This rifle looks like an last-ditch efford,like an end of the war weapon
The look of a prototype at the start of the war, becomes the look of a frontline weapon at the end of the war.
its a prototype firearm, they aren't supposed to be refined and pretty
hebat sekali hasil rancang bangun senapan otomatis tempo dulu, sangat menarik
As far as I can tell, the stock is held together with just those thin wood outer shells. Would last a couple of days in combat.
Possibly. But if it broke the main metal part is still there. And I suspect if this ever went into large production the would redesign the stock.
No doubt.
They may have replaced the wood with Bakelite when it came to the production stage.
Prototype
No, it's a dufflecut in the metal stock. Naturally the full length metal stock is meant to handle a hard paratrooper landing (or just being dropped..). The wooden outer shells is needed if you use the weapon in extreme cold or warm conditions.
Gustloff Werke was a LARGE producer of the KAR98k...definitely NOT a 'minor' producer
Any reason the newer videos seem less colorful than the old ones? Different camera or lighting changes?
So, should we call this mkb42(g) now?
Wow!!!!! Spectacular investment for the seller.
Do you think that the internal sheetmetal stock was duffle-cut?
Without a doubt!
Hey Ian, any chance you can make a video about the Carl Gustav M/45?.
I haven´t seen an indeept video about it.
I wonder how much of that locking block movement could be felt while firing. It doesn't move that far, but its a pretty chunky looking part.
Well she is a beauty though. Pretty rifle, I love it's Industrial look compared to say a Gewehr 41
Hey Ian is there anyway I can email you? I've got some questions on some firearms my grandfather will be passing down to me. I've only seen them once I believe they're a series of buffalo bill rifles. Absolutely beautiful never been shot outside the factory!
Wow! A prototype Gustloff rifle No. 13 to go with the prototype Gustloff pistol No. 13 !
I marvel that you handle these super rare metal components without gloves of some sort (to shield the metal from salt and skin oil).
Hey Ian. When did it first dawn on you that you are a firearms expert?
I’ve been watching these videos for days and only now fallen into Ian’s WW2/Nazi Germany videos from years ago.
Oh wow, that looks awesome.
Agreed... It's action has more chaotic moves to date, than Ex-Lax... -gilpin 8-18-16
You got any welrod pistol to review on? Suppressed bolt action pistol, 9mm, capable of reducing noise up to 70db
If this used a cut-down MG13 magazine, could it use the regular 25-round magazine like the Mauser Selbstlader and the G.41? If it could, was there any real advantage in having those magazines interchangeable? I mean, sure, it would be nice to fire twenty-five rounds before having to reload, but would that be any real advantage if these weapons went into production?
I suppose the one advantage would be not having to change the tooling - you would just be able to use slightly modified MG13 magazine stamps.
Also - someone else mentioned the stampings on the back edge of the bolt; looks like - Fed St I - or similar. Any ideas?
I just saw the video and I noticed Captain Howdy’s face etched on the magazine. Left side of the mag upper right.
Interesting gun. I find the hollow wood to be...a strange choice to say the least.
Hogging out all the wood to fit over the metal appears like it would make the stock a lot less durable than it seems before disassembly.
I suppose that on a post-war weapon, that it would be done with injection-moulded plastic and be fairly strong.
It's a dufflecut. Originally there would be a full length metal stock underneath. It's supposed to be stronger than a solid wooden stock, with hard paratrooper landings in mind.
Cool vid thanks
What's the threaded muzzle for?
The mag makes the 203 so much cooler looking ^^
there may not be much new to say on it as i've read about it on your site but i would like to see and hear about the MG-30/Solothurn S2-200, seem to me like it would have been a geart mg but got taken over by the MG-34 and belt fed mgs
I will need to watch this again to get my head around it. It's certainly a bit odd to be honest.
No chance you got an idea of total number made? If this is number thirteen, surely we;re well beyond basic prototype and into production testing and military trials?
Do you think that the sheet metal stock on this model of 206 could have been cut off as part of Luftwaffe trials?
Never seen that locking system before and I'm wondering how repeatable that lock up is. From what I know about what makes a rifle accurate it seems like that would be an effective system for repeat-ability, but I'm really having trouble telling.
I'm having a really hard time trying to understand the stock, and like Ian says I've never seen nor heard of another like it. Why not just leave it all metal (close enough in weight, stronger, quickly stamped out) or all wood like a conventional rifle with a few bits of metal hardware if it needs to detach? I'd almost say it was intended like a "veneer" for the aesthetic value, but in a purely functional military rifle of this era that makes no sense either, and I'd imagine that thin wood shell would split easily in combat.
In the end, it's doubling the required materials plus adding time, complexity and expense to the production (all things you're trying to avoid in wartime) in order to end up with a stock that's objectively worse than just picking one material or the other. Anyone have a solid theory on this decision?
Why not all metal? Well when the two places you are fighting in are russia and the sahara some heat insulation is really nice. And wood supricingly good at that.
Maybe a resource cutting method. Use as much steel as possible then insulate it with a thin piece of wood instead of relying completely on wood, or relying completely on steel which doesn't insulate well.
I cannot help but feel that the metal inner in the rear of the stock was supposed to be one with the rest of the gun, even the zigzag pressed grooves line up. Why it was detached, or never joined I cannot tell.
i wonder what the markings at 16:12 are... did anyone catch a better glimpse at them?
the action and trigger group look similar to the internal workings of a winchester 1300....with the addition of the gas operation
If there is no disconnector and you hold the sear down in a hammer fired gun like that, instead of fire full auto i think the bolt and the hammer will just drop together and fail to fire the next round because the hammer drops too slowly.
Great video Ian! I definitely agree that this rifle was submitted for Luftwaffe trials, especially after seeing the extent of stamped construction. Must have been an attempt at weight saving measures to hollow out the buttstock like that. One would think with all the stamped metal in the buttstock it can't weigh much less than a solid wood stock? Seemed like they got hung up on weight reduction for paratroopers and ignored the rest of the criteria haha. Did you get a chance to weigh the rifle?
Why is the muzzle threaded? Did this rifle have a muzzle break?
I can see they got inspiration from the polish Maroszek rifle there.
I can see why Hitler would push for the development of this weapon. He was easily impressed with overly complex weapons over practical weapons.
The germans sure do know how to make art!!!
Ian is a highroller with that Bic stic pen.
This is a pretty creepy rifle. The hole in the back of the receiver surrounded by mangled hammer marks, and the tab inside that's supposed to slot into it, but it doesn't... it's just, bleh... Also, it's serial number 13. I wouldn't pay a dime for this cursed object.
Smart Ian, thanks! ...
Is it possible that metal stock was just cut like a duffel cut? Perhaps it was one piece and the wood just covered over it like the hand guard?
Forgotten Weapons
Shooting with Gustloff 206 rifle.
Can we get a forgotten weapons t-shirt that features Ian’s wonderful facial hair?
I wonder how much of the estimated price is due to that little eagle.. I want to think not any but one can't help but ponder.
Cool to see something that isn't from one of the big firearms developers of Germany at the time!
The locking lugs seem too thin for regular use. But with further development they could have made it work.
I have read about these, and seen pictures, but this is the first time I ever have seen the inside. Well that is a really interesting stock. I wonder why they did that. I mean it could not had been to make the stock easier to make, ha.
Otherwise the general design, lock up excluded, seems to be taking a page from most good semi-auto designs of the time. The lock however, first time I ever saw that, ha.
That trigger group is...umm...very German, ha.
Man imagine how well Germany would have done if hitler didn't intervene as much as he did. Small arms development, Dunkirk, the invasion of the Soviet Union.
To be fair the infighting and the influence of the party wasn't all bad.
Exactly, their infighting may well have saved the world a lot of trouble.
+wood1155
divide and conquer!
I dunno, hitlers comical tank gun was pretty bad
I'm guessing that the wood furniture was made this way as a prototype and that plastic would replace it in production. Very interesting rifle but it looks more semi-auto shotgun with the twin transfer bars and dropping locking block than rifle.
The stock design would make sense if they were planning to make it from Bakelite in the mass production version.
I must ask Ian, have you ever come across any examples of the Brocock air cartridge range? I saw one recently at the Pitt Rivers museum in Oxford that I must've missed on my dozens of previous visits. The UK Anti-Social Behavior Act 2003 prevented them from being transferred or sold in any manner which promptly killed the market though there are a few thousand in the hands of those who owned them on their centerfire certificates.
very complicated but cool
That's one shoddy looking gun.
the Germans are masters of weapons. great engineering machinist especially with sheet metal. even today they make great items besides weapons. truly smart people. looks as if you could load the mag and put lead through the pipe. of course i wouldn't want to without getting checked out first. then clean and add to my collection. lol. good video.