Were You Really The Nerevarine? - The Elder Scrolls Lore
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- This was supposed to be a full lore video, but became partly a loveletter to Morrowind's style of storytelling. But I don't think anyone in this community really minds that.
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This was supposed to be a full lore video, but became partly a loveletter to Morrowind's style of storytelling. But I don't think anyone in this community really minds that.
I've never played morrowind, but i'll probably get to it
@@astraea.vt1 you betta
Ik hou van je lore vids man keep the good work up en stay safe
I like to think that Jiub, the prisoner you arrive with at Seyda Neen, was another potential Nerevarine that the Empire sent to do the same job as the player (i.e he was born on a certain day to uncertain parents and he was also commanded to work under Caius) but he ultimately chose not to and instead decided to just kill Cliff Racers.
I mean he did kill them cliff racers pretty good tho
The cliffracers are arguably an equal threat to Dagoth Ur.
Jiub was a great hero and I love his lore the fact that not long after the nevearine or at the same time defeated the cliff racers
The real hero of Morrowind if you ask me
Ultimately a much better accomplishment
This giant sword and pile of corpses behind me says I am the nerevarine. Either that or a genocidal maniac.
Reach heaven by violence then, Nerevar
Bit of both tbqh.
That’s exactly what’s so genius. Morrowind solved the chosen one trope in a way even future games in the series failed to. You don’t win because you are the Nerevarine. You are the Neravarine because you win.
I mean, in oblivion you are not the chosen one, you help the chosen one
The line between the two is practically nonexistent in TES
@@dannymac939That not how Dragonborn work
@@renlevy411 Dragonborns aren’t just chosen at birth, people can become Dragonborn as well.
Do you think the Septims were all directly descended from Tiber Septim? Lol people adopted INTO the Septim line became Dragonborn with zero actual relation to him. It has always been something Akatosh grants people, and can grant people based on a whim
@@dannymac939 Dragonborns are born with the soul of a dragon. You can learn to use the voice but you can't become dragonborn. The greybeards even remark that you being able to learn new words as fast as you do means you must be dragonborn.
I miss the ambiguity of Morrowind.
It was alien and fantasy, yet familiar and realistic in it's elements. It was an example of good world building and character writing.
Were you the Nerevarine?
Was the Nerevarine truly fated to be, or was it a self-fulfilling prophecy enacted by the emperor, a drug-addicted spymaster, some locals, a renegade daedra, a demi-god and a felon?
Were you the Nerevarine because you were born, fulfilled the prophecy... or simply because everyone believed you were?
Was Dagoth-Ur truly evil, a tragic villain... Or was he a villain at all? Maybe these apply to the Tribunal?
It's up to you, the player.
I hope they bring back such story telling in ES:6.
Nope, that style of writing is never coming back in the Elder Scrolls. You really think Bethesda can do any story besides “chosen one who stops evil” or “finding lost loved one in a wasteland” at this point?
@@Sullenify Morrowind's storytelling was great and all, but I just want levitation back ffs.
With the technology we have nowadays, I think they could make “spin off” or “remakes” in the Morrowind style of prior elder scrolls games or new elder scrolls stories, somewhat lightening the workload while creating a genuine experience
@@andrewstevens3097 first we need good level design, they can't do that (lack of talent in present day Bethesda) , without that levitation don't work properly as a mechanic
While I do personally think the Nerevarine is a dunmer (For obvious reasons) I have seen some point to the ironic and plausible idea that it could be argonian. Because that's something Azura would do to enact revenge. You can kill all the major characters in morrowind and free the argonian slaves. A twist on the fable that had been told through the generations. Do I think that was the case? Absolutely not. But I can see it happening. The game is just that open to interpretation that it's plausible.
I think the interpretation behind the ring wasn't so much _only the one true chosen one_ could wear it, more like, "Azura doesn't care how many people have to die for her to get revenge."
The Nerevarine was not born, he was made throughout the journey to fulfill the requirements
Except for the part where Azura states they are chosen at the beginning of the game and that they magically survived a Corpus cure that killed everyone before and after them.
@@Distortion23 How can we be sure that Azura doesn't lie? After all she only tells us we're the nerevarine after we fulfill the prophecy. The corprus argument is really interesting though and is probably the most definitive proof that you are actually the reincarnation of Nerevar.
The Nerevarine had no idea what the Nerevarine even was or why they were sent to Vvardenfell. Azura has no reason to lie about them being chosen as the Nerevarine had no idea what the Nerevarine was, let alone that they were the Nerevarine.
Uriel also chose the Nerevarine personally and as we see in Oblivion he had prophetic visions of the future.
Not only did the Nerevarine survive the Corpus cure unlike everyone else but they also retained the immortality and immunity to disease, as the Nerevarine was said to be.
If we go by the dialogue of Vivec in the game who is the only one recognising your true nature, he achieved Chim and its even more powerful then anyone on the continent at the time is more afraid of you.
So you are not the Nerevarine but an agent of probably The Godhead if you want to go all metaphysical on the game. Vivec knows that even if he kills you 1 million times you will return 1 million times back.
@@Auriorium Vivec is not one of the most powerful people on the continent. After he loses the heart he says he is mortal and that he will, speculating that you will kill him. If you kill him his death is acknowledged by Azura and Almalexia.
In ESO Barbas had impersonated his arch canon for months and he did not know. When the heart's energy was siphoned off him he was left near death.
Either Vivec was lying about CHIM or it does not make you godlike.
I think that a proof of you being a true Nerevarine are Dagoth Ur and Almalexia. If you go meet Dagoth Ur right after coming off the ship he says you are not ready for their meeting yet. He marks you as Nerevarine before you yourself know what that even is, same with Almalexia. If you go into Tribunal DLC to deal with Dark Brotherhood soon after starting the game, Almalexia is cheeky with you, she has dialogue hinting at who you are, and at your connection to Nerevar.
But then again that could also be interpreted in similar ways as all other signs.
That's a very interesting point to make. Clearly they have some kind of foresight in addition to the divine powers and near-immortality the heart grants. But the question is, is the future showing them that this stranger will cross their paths and claim to be the Nerevarine - or that Nerevar himself will actually be reincarnated? We can't know what they saw, or to what extent.
But you would think that Nerevar even in his reincarnated form would be unmistakable to one of his best friends (Dagoth Ur) and his lover (Almalexia), it's like if someone you've known deeply your whole life put on a mask and talked to you - chances are you'd know it was them, divine powers or not.
You've given me something to think about, thank you.
Oh, I absolutely was the Nerevarine. Not my character in the game, mind you, but I, personally, the player, was literally the Nerevarine.
Mind you, to an outside observer, it would have appeared as though I had simply got really, truly, *devastatingly* high and was yelling at Vivec, an imaginary game character, through my computer monitor. Alas, such limited perceptions are all that can be gleaned by those who have yet to achieve CHIM.
That’s the best concept of the Nerevarine I’ve seen yet, and I don’t care that it breaks the fourth wall. The theory works especially well if it’s your 23rd playthrough since 2003:
The slob in his pyjamas staring at the monitor, sitting in a faux-leather office chair EMBODIES Nerevar. His mouse-hand guiding the unwitting character, who, to their own amazement, seems to have uncanny, encyclopedic knowledge of this land they’ve been shipped to, and what they must do here.
The character is not Nerevar, the player is.
Dagoth Ur cinches the argument for me. He not only recognizes you right off the bat, but then has a chat with you. Not a monologue, not a rant fest, but a conversation I can only describe as a friend to friend one who are now enemies because they were born on different sides of the tracks. His ‘Do you think you really are Nerevar?’ is him seeing if/how much you FEEL or remember or if you are just not sure. Do you remember me? Do you recall our last conversation? Am I alone in that? Dagoth Ur would certainly not ask those vulnerable questions, but he would ask if we think we are. Hoping maybe to get those answers. He certainly is that sentimental! I mean a part of Dagoth Ur would spare us if we surrendered, which why would he do that if we weren’t his friend before?
No he sees what the Emperor, Azura, the Ring, and so on see: the actual, sure enough, real, bonafide, and blazing soul of Nerevar staring back at him through the body of another.
Like when agent Smith takes over that one guy’s body in the Matrix trilogy and Neo sees him through his blindness as a golden fire inside the body. I can absolutely see that being the case with Nerevar.
Elder Scrolls CAN be deeply lore engaging with lots of voice acting. KOTOR I & 2 managed to do it. Mass Effect series did it. Elder Scrolls can do it again.
ParadoxBattleZone Morrowind had way more dialogue and NPCs than KOTOR and mass effect.
They need to not hire famous actors like Patrick Stewart and instead hire 50 nobodies for the same price.
@@AntonEugeneLanthier Yeah we don't really need any famous actors just a bunch of really talented people who aren't well known
I like to read.
It could, if they had any talented story tellers left. They don't though.
I think the reason you never met Nerevar's spirit is because his soul is still on Nirn... Because you know, he's reborn over and over until the Tribunal falls... Nerevar is still a physical being
One thing I’ve wondered is that now the Nerevarine prophecy has been fulfilled, does this mean Azura will lift the curse on the Chimer? I know the dunmer have still been stuck as dark elves 200 years after the prophecy was fulfilled, but remember the old chimer religion was about growth through suffering and the dunmer are still barely recovering from the red year. Perhaps they’ll be restored after they’ve moved on?
Azura probably won't life it. She wants it to be a constant reminder of her power if you cross her.
There is one dunmer that does not have red eyes and that is the one in the thieves guild questline. Can't remember her name. However that could have also been an oversight by Bethesda
Knowing Bethesda, they will do whatever they want and not give two shits about what their own lore says.
If you want an out of universe answer, the Dunmer have been pretty soundly established as a rave by now, and just turning them back into a High Elf clone would seriously hurt the popularity of the franchise. So no, they won't do it. 😞
@@titusseptim that Dunmer is Karliah. She's Barenziah's grandaughter, and inherited her eye color from the Queen.
The lore states on the Nerevarine can wear Moon-and-Star and not die from wearing it. Azura speaks to you and also says the same and you see the dozens of ghosts of people who attempted to wear Moon-and-Star and died at the end of their quest after discovering Azura's shrine and the resting place of the the ring.
It is pretty definitive that the player is the Nerevarine, but what Morrowind does so well is that you aren't some all-powerful and blessed being capable of destroying enemies the moment you arrive in Morrowind, you're just like anyone else except far, far weaker and in a foreign land with no knowledge of the area, the culture, the politics or any of the people and you have to work to become skilled enough to survive and make your way through the world.
In Morrowind, the player BECOMES the Nerevarine through hard work and the fulfillment of the prophecy through sheer will. You are the Nerevarine, but it isn't a path you are given and can take freely, it is a path you actually must choose and work to achieve and I think that's what Morrowind has that all of the other Elder Scrolls games are missing. The games afterward all give the player far too much power and influence the moment they begin, whereas in Morrowind, you have to earn every achievement and title you get.
It’s pretty definitive the player is NOT nerevar reborn since we can play as female.
The tribunal allegedly tried the weird mutilation prophecy angle but unless your head-canon is that ALL female MCs that complete the MQ are trans males, it doesn’t work that way. You can change a male’s form (as a prank or otherwise) but underneath it all his mind and soul are male. In order for Nerevar to be female you have to create a new being without his soul or mind or body. There’s no Nerevar left. Even E’Tada know they can’t change a mortal’s sex because the self is explicitly irrevocable.
I always assumed the failed incarnations are the failed characters you abandoned before you finally get one that sticks.
@thunderlifestudios8630 alot of them died on a bridge, oddly.
Great video..I think the player is the Nerevarine - simply because Azura says it when she first speaks to you "Nerevar Reborn, Incarnate" she says.
I personally don't trust Daedra, Nerevarine was an instrument of her revenge vs Tribunal who brok the vow they gave to Nerevar (Azura's favourite). She turned Chimer into Dunmer, despite them doing nothing wrong. Seeing all these Failed Incarnates suggests that she kept trying over the centuries to find the one who would finally get the job done. She might treat her followers better than most other Daedra, but she has a nasty side too.
@@masterexploder9668 in daggerfall, or perhaps it's arena she's also the prince of vainity, soo
If it were up to me, the only improvements that I would make to Elder Scrolls 6 is severe increases to dialogue and playstyle diversity.
I think when Dagoth asks that, he means that if he wonders if you truly feel like Nerevar, or that you are simply going through the motions of what the prophecy expects. He asks: Do you yourself believe it? Or are you lying to yourself to do what is right, and that there is nothing left for you besides what others tell you. Identity is a big theme in Morrowind, especially since the Nerevarine is all that they are, the Nerevarine, an uncertain individual born from uncertain terms with a definite prophecy. Players make up their identity of their character as they go on, but does that mean that they are really themselves, or are they just only Nerevarine?
Yes. The fact you can wear the Moon and Star without dying means definitively that you are the Nerevarine. You would literally just drop dead if you weren’t.
The argument would be that by that point he has "become" the Nerevarine by fulfilling the prophecies. He's Nerevar via Mantling.
Honestly I *believe* my character was the true soul of Indoril Nerevar reincarnate, but the lore does allow for them not to be.
@@JackoX901no. You literally are but you weren't always. It's not a chosen one. Anyone who completes all the prophesies becomes the nerevarine
I remember reading somewhere that the original plan for Morrowind's story was to be a lot more explicit in the Nerevarine prophecy. Namely, the plan was that yes, the MC WAS the Nerevarine, Nerevar reborn.
Eh, its more like the 12 works of hercules or heracles.
Which Mr all drugged up in the attic while writing admitted to.
Just because you are an aspect of Nervar doesn't make you the Nerevarine or atleast Nerevar reborn.
Its through the trails that you complete you become the Nerevarine and prove to be worthy to be called the reborn of Nerevar.
I mean the whole tribunal DLC pretty much has you either prove,bribe or back stab your way in to being acknowledged as the Nerevarine.
This makes more sense when you look at the other gods who've been slain and scattered acros the realm.
Everyone had the potential. Like the other fella on the boat which means the empire didn't put all their eggs in one basket.
This made the prophecy more of a force of will then a god made manifested one.
I mean consider every reload a failed attempt at that regard.
That's a very good point, yeah.@@vonshroom2068
I thought long and hard about this for some time. However I think the answer is what's most stated at the very beginning of the game when Azura speaks: the player character is and will be the Nerevarine because Azura chose you, and put you on the path of the fulfilling the prophecy. You become the Nerevarine when it's proven with no doubt (wearing the ring and surviving Divayth Fyr's corprus "cure").
i always loved this angle. i also wish the game had spent more time exploring the angle of how tied you were to the nerevarine prophecy; that they might have given you the option to defiantly say "i am not just nerevar reborn, i am my own person"
It does injustice to poor boy Nerevar 😢 i have not completed the game but if i am not reincarnation of the champion then how would i take revenge from tribunals 😢 i want to kill Amey the whore
I remember when I got to the cavern of the incarnate that I didn't think I was a true Nerevarine as one would typically understand it, but just the guy Azura had committed to assisting. While the other "false Nerevarines" that were just people convinced they were or were just deluded enough to believe they were.
The first TES game I played was Oblivion so when I heard the Emporer sent the PC I believed he had a vision it was us, we play as the reincarnation of Nerevar. But if I remember correctly there's a line about how Uriel keeps releasing criminals into Vardenfell to achieve the prophecy or something so it's still up in the air.
Also AI voices are getting pretty good. So maybe someday we'll have a fully voiced experience to the level and amount of Morrowind.
They're working on this now.
I always thought that all of the failed incarnates were the Nerevarine, as well as your player character, but they were also their own people who made their own decisions and had their own flaws. All of them had the potential to fulfill the prophecy, but they were ended before they could do everything they needed to do or were not fit to lead.
I was not the nerevarine because open morrowind was freezing my pc, and then i tried vanilla and the game corrupted my save beyond repair. All of this happened in the last weeks, i played morrowind years ago but didn't finish it.
I guess i'm just the eternal champion, the agent, the hero of kvach, the dragonborn.
Yes n'wah
T H I S I S T H E E N D O F Y O U , S ' W I T
I feel like the Nerevarine isn't so much as a reincarnation of Nerevar himself, but the one who will inherit his will and finish what he started
Azura knew that Vvardenfell would not trust an outlander to free them of Dagoth Ur, so she said in a very vague manner that she will send someone who will "come from any land, speak any language, look any face and be any man or woman", just to further punish the Tribunal for their betrayal.
In the end, Nerevar did live on through us, as we carried out his broken promise among his dunmer people
That is, until we head on out of there and let the Argonians take over Post-Red year Vvardenfell
Snakussy got the nerevarine acting downright silly
I think it's just as Nibani Maesa says, in the beginning of the game, you are not the Nerevarine. I think of it less like a destiny and more of an earned title. The Nerevarine is just the person who fulfills the prophecy, they're nobody special until they do so.
Yes, I am Saint Nerevar Moon-and-Star the Champion of Azura
Damn, Morrowind, it’s been 21 years and I’ve still only scratched the surface!
That's the thing i like about morrowind, it's vague whitout it seeming on purpose. All sides of the story can be interpreted to be good or evil, it's not fully clear who's the bad guy. In oblivion that's partly true but you got to go deep into the lore before you find that out. In skyrim well it's clear as water, alduin is evil and the only thing that provokes doubt in my opinion is paarthurnax's dialogue when you first meet him which just feels so intentionally placed there.
It is a role-playing game so it’s really up to you to decide.
You were the nerevarine because azura gave you the moon and star, which will kill anyone else who wears it but nerevar
When I first played Morrowind's main quest, I thought I was Nerevar's reincarnation but now I like keeping ambiguity in my character not knowing if he is his own person or a reincarnated Dunmer Jesus to the point he tells Dagoth Ur that he knows no more than Dagoth himself.
The game also allows you to render the prophecy inert/dead. Play the Mournhold dlc, become a vampire, kill Vivec. Take the broken Wraithguard, Sunder, and Keening and hide them. Killing Vivec will end the Tribunal, ensuring the eruption of Red Mountain, killing Dagoth’s army and encapsulating Lorken’s Heart in stone, physically cutting Dagoth Ur off and ensuring the Mythic Dawn never come to be.
By doing this a vampire inverts the prophecy and kills any chance of another nereverar rising. Rendering the prophecy and Dagoth Ur’s plan requiring it inert
I feel like our character was the Nerevarine due to WAY too many events during their time were so coincidental.
As if fate was altering the state of the world ever so slightly to push them towards their destiny.
What I never understood however is why it had to be Nerevar's soul reincarnated.
There are no memories or experiance remaining from his former life.
So for all intents and purposes it was pointless to have his soul reincarnated to do the job.
Considering this is the Elder Scrolls series with its wacky logic defying lore, im 100% positive the player is Nerevar incarnate.
I do think the player is the nerevarine and that all the others were just not they faked it and some got further than others and the reason you never see his souls because its yours aswell and i roleplayed the uncertain parents as he had no parents born of the land or heavens kind of thing
If you decode the package for Caius Cosades yourself (not the "decoded" version your given as that's missing the attachment) it actually states that the Nerevarine may have been supernaturally born.
@@JackoX901 never knew you could do that
I always thought the "you didnt acomplish things because you were the nerevarine, you were the nerevarine because you acomplished things" message always tied in really well with Paarthunax's "What is better, to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" line, and both tied in with the game's messages about one having a set destiny and there being "chosen ones" (Martin Septim, the Nerevarine, the Dragonborn and many other heroes). Even if destiny, prophecy or instinct exist, they can always be overcome and one can always take charge and change their path, and even if ones destiny is to succeed, it will not become true without effort and sacrifice. Great people didnt make great things because they were great, they became great by doing great things, before they were just someone with a set path, probably to mediocrity.
I can't wait for the day when game designers can use text-to-speech in video games so we can have Morrowind levels of dialog in newer games.
That's not the problem, well it is, but the problem is audio takes a FUCK TON of space.
@@viveka2994 Yeah, that's why if all dialog was stored as text and read through a tts program it would take up far less space.
@@beneaththefells hmmm
Yeah... maybe. Pretty sure if you tried to talk a bunch of it out, it starts to sound weird.
We're there now. Full AI voiced Morrowind mod that actually sounds good is in the make.
Man wish they remastered this game.
I kinda felt like I was the Nerevarine whether I liked it or not. Unlike Skyrim, I didn't feel like I was playing an avatar, more a silent protagonist with their set values and choices. Then again, I suppose the Nerevarine doesn't take care of the true threat of the Empire like Nerevar promised and instead blindly serves it.
While the Nerevarine doesn't fight the empire, he does start a chain of events that makes Morrowind de facto independent from the empire. Thus fulfilling his prophecy.
@@teyrncousland7152 Morrowind left because of the Oblivion Crises. How did the Nerevarine start that?
@@zeveria7206
First of the Oblivion crisis would have been prevented in Morrowind if the Tribunal were still around with their power.
Secondly many other events got the empire out of Morrowind, not just the Oblivion crisis, like the Red Year and the Argonian invasion which also would not have happened if the Tribunal and the heart of Lorkhan were still around.
@@teyrncousland7152 The Tribunal might have stopped the Oblivion Crises from occurring in Morrowind, but the reason Morrowind was able to secede is because first all the imperial troops left to defend Cyrodil and then, when the Empire was gone, the Dunmer were forced to create their own standing army against the Argonians.
@@zeveria7206
And without the Oblivion crisis occuring or any other of the events then the empire would never leave.
Honestly, I like the written dialog too. However, I think it's because the va is either good, or absolutely terrible. You get immersed into the world, to be thrown out by the male bretons in oblivion. You get awesome dialog by Martin, then 2 minutes later talk to jaffree.
The opening movie implies that Azura is at least aware of your potential to fulfill the prophecy and given the size of the empire it's hard to believe that the Emperor only had access to one orphan born under the proper sign.
So I think the answer is somewhere in the middle, the game is you "becoming" the Neeverine by mantling his legend, but you were already "special" ... probably singled out by the Moth Monks as having potential to fullfill the prophecy and we know that being a lowly prisoner also holds weight in the TES when it comes to fullfilling grand fates.
Or in other words, you had already started the process in mantling the neeverine before stepping on the island so you start as a "semi-reincarnation" that grows into a "true reincarnation" as you fullfill the prophecy and mantling process, and we all know that mantling changes the past so the moment you fullfill the prophecy not only are you the true neeverine but you retroactively always were.
It be cool if once the tribunal was defeated the dunmer or at least the neverine If he was a dunmer were turned back into a chimer although it would be a huge game change
Let's face it. There's 1 more important question here: Was Dagoth Ur gay & had romantic feeling towards Indoril Nerevar?
Idk Dagoth Ur kinda made Corpus epidemic worse. He is kinda smart and couldve been a good alternate questline where he does biological and arcane warfare. It was cut from the final game I would assume given Dagoth Ur has weird quest dialogue in regards to this
Plot twist! The dragonborn from skyrim is actually the nerevarine and the hero of Kvatch! The dragonborn is also talos and akatosh and the godhead!!!!
Honestly no one would be surprised if bethesda said this
It would explain why you always start out in prison. I mean, come on, who here hasn't racked up a shit ton of bounties in-game? 😆
This is impossible. The nerevarine is mentioned in Oblivion as going to Akavir. Therefore the hero of Kvatch cannot be the nerevarine.
The dragonborn meets sheogorath who is the hero of Kvatch, meaning they cannot be the same.
This was really interesting. I like to think you weren't born the Neravarine,you became the Neravarine as you said in the video.
I killed Dagoth Ur , Vivec , Almalexia , and got Azura's Ring , I'm the Nerevarine. Period.
Daddy scrolls
Okay so I'm definitely playing it.
If you fulfill the prophecy of the nerevarene, at that point in time wouldn't you be the nerevarene?(EDIT) sorry for the typos...
Prophecy seems to be more of a set of guidelines for Nerevarine to maximise his chances of success.
Honestly, I feel like Nerevarine fits really well as a title, not a literal reincarnation of Nerevar's soul. If an individual embodies many of the same traits as Indoril Nerevar, they may be judged worthy of being called the Nerevarine, with Moon-and-Star being empowered by Azura to effectively test an individual on their worthiness to claim that title. The term reincarnation could be more metaphorical to give a more poetic nature.
There is also the idea of the Shezarrine which could help to explain the Nerevarine prophecy and how it works as it is implied that Pelinal Whitestrake mantled Shezarr/Shor/Lorkhan (similarly to Tiber Septim/Talos, who alongside Pelinal Whitestrake have also been referred to by the same set of alternate names, including Ysmir). With that additional info, I feel it is likely that "Nerevarine" is a title given to those who share enough traits with Nerevar to actually mantle him and BECOME the reincarnation through their own efforts.
In Nu-Hatta of the Sphinxmoth Tree, Kirkbride stated "Nerevarine: 'Pantheon by incarnation, as all alive now know.'", which would in ways seem to go against the theory of mantling, which yeah it definitely does imply that the Nerevarine is in fact an incarnation, not one who has mantled Nerevar, especially as Tiber Septim is stated in the same source to have mantled. Although if this is interpreted as being mysterious and abstract as is the case with much of Kirkbrides work, it would definitely be possible to treat this as metaphorical, and thus entirely possible that it is not mutually exclusive from mantling, allowing for the Nerevarine to be both a metaphorical incarnation of Nerevar, and to have "mantled by way of the fourth" as Tiber Septim once did with Shor.
I could be entirely wrong, and trying to interpret Kirkbrides writings isn't exactly too helpful in proving or disproving anything, nor is it good for my brain cells, but it at least provides me with a headcanon for what the Nerevarine is.
I saw the same reddit post too and was wondering the same thing
Umm... pardon my intrusion outlander, but if memory serves wrong, the Elder Scrolls never change. The prophesies are only revealed to certain trained individuals, with the mental fortitude to read it. The Elder Scrolls - and I mean what the dragons refer to as Kel - look not just into the future, the past and present, but outside of the time Dragon's linear timehandling. Whatever they say is true.
To refer to the College of Winterhold's librarian, everything the Scroll tells you is true. Even the Falsehoods. Especially the falsehoods.
Oh, and I AM THE NEREVARINE.
You obviously understand the game way better than the writer of this video
The real Nerevarine was the friends we made along the way
S/O to uncle Crassius for being such a sweet guy
My Nerevarine never killed dagoth, he became a imperial merchant lol
Any advice for Morrowind?? I recently bought it because of the lockdown and want to get into it
Go into it without comparing it to Oblivion and Skyrim as the combat and skills system (especially the diceroll) is something you need to get into and it can be frustrating, but its easier if you go into it without expectations.
Imperial Knowledge yeah it was frustrating when I had a quick go on it. Thanks for the advice ☺️☺️ btw still loving the vids keep them up
The Neravarine is such a tragic character.
but isnt moon and star a dwemer ring made by kagrenac for Nerevar?
"the real nerevar" gives an account of a telvanni retainer telling how moon and star was forged, but in a generic npc dialogue about moon and star, they say the ring was made by kagrenac and blessed by azura, so who do we believe?
Success is a combination of effort and luck. So fated or not the player character accomplished everything by their own merit. It wouldn't have happened if they just sat around doing nothing.
My theory about the One-Clan-Under-Moon-And-Star ring is that its Nerevar-specific enchantment was nullified when the original Nerever died. People still believe that it will kill you if you try to wear it, so nobody tries to wear it unless they're already on their way to try to prove themselves to be the nerevarine.
Everyone knows the nerevarine was a skooma addled argonian who had multiple trips of seeing azuras moons.... and stars
And the dark elves still won't accept him for being an argonian.
That is what I liked about Morrowind: you as the player can simply become very powerful and still beat the skinny mask in that mountain. No need for all of the steps.
Whether or not you are the Neravarine is dependent on how you choose to play the game and fulfill the prophecy. Do or do not. The temporal myth is man, and you are the letter that must be written in uncertainty.
Love your videos! Keep them going! More Bretons too!
Err...Azura pretty much stated out loud at the end of Morrowind, and she/he is a Daedric Prince. Also Almsivi were convinced. You would think they would know.
Are the Daedric Princes omniciscient? I was under the impression they were fallible, less so than mortals perhaps, but still able to make mistakes. I'm only a novice when it comes to Elder Scrolls lore so I could very well be mistaken myself.
Gods in ES certainly operate on a different level, but neither Azura or Tribunal are trustworthy, though Sotha Sil seems to be a cool guy, all things considered.
I can answer that question now, no you weren't but you became him
You're not the actual Nerevarine; you're just some random individual who is ironically haunted by prophetic dreams, ironically passes all the trials, ironically becomes Azura's champion, ironically unites the Dunmer tribes, deposes the Tribunal (ironically), and is ironically called Nerevar by Vivec, Azura, Almalexia, and Dagoth Ur.
I now wish that Morrowind was a roguelike/lite and all the characters you played that died end up in the cave of the incarnate. With a little ai written dialog about your accomplishments and death.
Shor's bones that'd be an amazing mod!
By far one of my favorite takes on this. I never thought that they possibly couldn't be, thank you so much for this, it's got me thinking. Does the player really need to be the real thing if he performs the actions of the real thing? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, isn't that enough?
Behold, Plato's Nerevarine.
Not yaaaasss but HELL YAAAAAAASSSSSSS
I don’t think I could get through morrowind today. I’ve not tried, but If the combat is as janky as people say and the dialogue so heavy- it’s seems to punishing. I’d probably rather just read the dialogue separately
Agree
I love gooooooolddd
Yessss
Naturally, they're an Argonian
good video
No, then Yes.
There is a video on RUclips where you beat Dagoth Ur within something like 4mins from starting the game (without cheating). Following the method provided in said video (I think, been a while since I saw it), you definitely are not the Nerevarine.
Yes. No. Maybe. All.
i hope one day ai voicing will become good enough to fully replace voice actors because there's no difference but ai voicing costs nothing so one day there will be as big elder scrolls game as morrowind that has same amount of dialogues and all of them voiced because it costs nothing
A better question would be does the answer to that question even matter in the end? All that matters is that you fulfilled the prophecy in the end. Were you truly destined to fulfill the prophecy or did you choose to fulfill it? No one will ever know the answer to those questions because it gets down to one of the biggest questions in religion and all prophecy in general. How much is ordained by a higher power and how much is free will. Would Jesus have still been the messiah of Christianity if he had decided to not die on the cross or would he have been one of the false messiahs that had came and went around the same time? No one knows the answer to those questions and no one ever will. What matters is that Jesus did die on that cross. Same thing applies to the Nerevarine regardless of whether or not he really was the reincarnation of Nerevar he choose to walk the path and fulfill the prophecy. In all the ways that matter he is the nerevarine.
I agree or disagree.
I fear that my opinion of Morrowind has been colored a touch by a few fanboys of the game who insist that later games are "Dumbing Down" and that newer fans of the series are, as a result, Filthy "Casuals"...
That said, You and a channel by the name of SorcererDave (having released a video some 10 or so years ago responding to this mindset.) are doing quite a bit to change my mind. so I'm giving it another shot...Admittedly there is a bit of cognative dissonance dealing with a 3d Elder scrolls that plays like a 2d one (I get that Arena and Daggerfall had this die roll mechanic like Morrowind does, but it never seemed to bother me as much as it does in Morrowind for some reason...)
Of course, it also doesn't help that my character is meant to be more of a Stealth-Archer Bosmer...for some reason that just didn't really become viable until Oblivion I'm to understand...
It absolutely has been "dumbing down". Every aspect of it has been reduced in both scale and writing. Same thing happened with Fallout too. That's just Bethesda's thing. Todd calls it "streamlining". I call it bullsh*t.
That's not to say the other games can't be enjoyable, I played Oblivion to death on release. But I was super disappointed with all the cuts. No proper teleport magic, no spears and retcons out the ass. By Skyrim, I was done. I finished it but I will never accept it's woeful RPG mechanics or terribly disappointing implementation of TES dragons.
The Bethesda I idolized simply doesn't exist anymore. I get why Skyrim is popular but ultimately it's just not made for me.
ESO is the more story-heavy game in the franchise.
But it's not a real TES game.
@@MrHogGamer Yet Bethesda itself has confirmed that the events of ESO are confirmed as canon whether or not you consider it canon(or an elder scrolls game) or not. They own the franchise and whether they made it or not they can call it canon and an elder scrolls game whether you want to or not.
Yeah, yeah....I already know Bethesda confirmed ESO is canon. However, many fans of the real TES games made by Bethesda Game Studios don't give a shit about ESO and don't consider it a TES game. You can fuck off, whether you want to or not.
@@MrHogGamer And guess what, pal, there are just as many fans of Elder Scrolls who do like this game as those who do not. And there are those who consider this an Elder Scrolls game as well. Despite whether you and others consider it an Elder Scrolls it is. Feelings don't get in the way of facts. I can respect opinions on the matter but the fact is I do consider it an Elder Scrolls game. At launch it was a mess but nowhere wasn't as bad as Fallout 76 which I didn't even bother to buy when I heard how bad it was. Difference is Elder Scrolls Online had a lot more going for it then Fallout 76 ever did because it wasn't as bad. They had a product they could make better and did despite hiccups.
I'm no Bethesda fanboy or am I pleased on what they've been doing these past few years. I still play Oblivion and Skyrim quite frequently. Just because someone disagreed with you doesn't mean you have to be rude. The world has opinions. Someone disagrees with you... tough.
@Garuda002 I agree. Thanks.
Hm, that what makes Morrowind consistently interesting, a lot of ifs/maybes
Edit: As mentioned in the video! Agreed.
A reincarnation wouldn’t be capable of speaking to their past soul/spirit because they are said soul/spirit.
Saves where players die are false nereverines. Saves where players succeed are the nereverine. Therefore, the player just got lucky, and the nereverine doesn’t exist.
Lmao jk you’re probably the nereverine.
In once sense, the story and lore presented in Morrowind - and the other Elder Scrolls games - is pretty darned bad.
It's a syncretic hodge-podge, stealing from every conceivable fantasy source. Vampires. Werewolves. Goblins. Elves. Necromancers. If there's a fantasy trope, it's probably to be found somewhere in the Elder Scrolls.
If you can get past that aspect of Morrowind, there's a lot of originality in the story line, and yep, much of it is left vague, unanswered, indefinite - which only adds to the allure. No matter how deeply you plunge into the game, there is content hinted at, unrevealed. The game has plenty of action, but it's also thought-provoking. And, even in 2020, it's beautiful. Gorgeous sunrises. Frightening monsters. Colorful clothing. With mods, it can look almost modern. I think it's the best Elder Scrolls game - though I've had fun playing Oblivion and Skyrim.
Does a mortal's ascent to godhood invariably result in insanity? Morrowind answers the question: absolutely. Dagoth Ur may have had reasonable motives in the beginning, but in the end, he became a mad god. Ditto for the Trinity. Bonkers, the lot of them. This Morrowind experience has colored my appreciation of the subsequent Elder Scrolls games. *Every* god is nuts. This goes for both the Aedra and the Daedra. In their interventions in Mundus, they routinely err, and badly. Azura's plots are unreasonably intricate, so much so that they fail over and over - and she's unreasonably arrogant, too. Little that they do makes any logical sense. They're all monomaniacal, fixed on certain objectives to the exclusion of all else. If you get a peek at the lands they rule (Daedra), they're decayed, mismanaged. The Aedra retreated to Aetherium, but for most of them, it's pretty hard in these games to conclude if they're even alive, contemporaneously speaking. They sure aren't effective in representing themselves on Mundus.
When Martin Septum became an avatar of Akatosh in Oblivion to fight Mehrunes Dagon, it was through power stored in the Amulet of Kings, placed there in the First Era by Akatosh. Akatosh himself didn't lift a finger - perhaps because he didn't have to? Or because he's no longer even alive? Or too crazy to act intelligently? Who knows?
Dagon is nuts; the player gets a good hard look at his plane of Oblivion. Crazy. Decrepit. Ugly. All of the Daedra are demented. The madgod theme continues for the player in the Shivering Isles, where he ascends to godhood himself. His divine portfolio is inimical to sanity. The player's success frees Jyggalag from the Sheogorath personality inflicted on him by other Daedra - but Jyggalag's vision of order is stultifying. Mad in its own right.
Vast power, unlimited lifespans, consequent insanity. That's a core message I receive from these games. Mundus has fared better than any of the Oblivion realms because mortals generally do not have that much power or live for that long. It is constantly renewed. The gods don't have a monopoly on insanity, of course. But with mortality, at least the possibility of sanity exists.
Food for thought - which is one reason I've enjoyed these games so much over the years.