Surf Tip "Surfboard Building" Glass Layups and Foam Options
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- Опубликовано: 13 мар 2022
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In this episode we talk about Surfboard Glass Layups and Foam Options. 
Кино
As a board builder - thanks for bringing transparency and knowledge to the surfing world! Everyone surfs better when they know how their board was made
Great video man, I love hearing this type of stuff. Would be awesome of you could get Greg Webber on to talk about concaves, v’s and the ups and downs of each.
What Great episode Noel! 🤙 - resin density numbers was something I never understood
Great Video for someone new to surfing!
More like this please! Good stuff!🙌🏼
Good episode Noel, I like the fact that you brought up PU w/Epoxy resin - it seems like a best of both worlds scenario. Here is part of a conversation I had with Matt of Kazuma Surfboards -
“Epoxy over pu works great and I do it all the time. There are many different epoxy formulas that have different properties but in general it isn't used over pu by many because the customer is never happy in the end because they expect "epoxy" to be a miracle as promoted by the media and surfboard companies building sandwich construction "epoxy" boards. Over pu, epoxy dents more than polyester, turns yellow faster, costs 2x more and worst of all slows production dramatically. The benefit? My epoxy has superior optical brightener added which makes them stand out form the average board in the sun. So white over whiter pu foam that It attracts attention. Epoxy cracks less when you knee the rail or hit something so less repairs for the customer (but usually dents more) epoxy bonds to the fin boxes much better than pu which reduces failures and epoxy allows for a larger markup due to the image of epoxy. Higher markup is important for a low volume shop.”
Offset the cost of epoxy vs poly and see how fast your larger markup fades! At nearly a hundred a gallon the higher retail price for epoxy is justified.
Also, go with S glass. Much more durable, less denting, even over 1.5# foam. It's worth a the dollars more per yard, especially for the deck.
You have the best videos and content I general thanks Noel
Great episode Noel really interesting gives me alot more to think about when I order my next board. Keep up the great work 🤙
Your channel is so helpful thank you...
40 years ago eps/epoxy was making an entrance into the surfboard industry. Took a while before the naysayers were hushed. Thanks to Greg Loehr for starting a revolution in surf materials. Also, Gary Linden. Resin Research forever. Beautiful resin, baby.
Good starting point for learning about glass types and typical layups. So many possible combinations though, would like to learn more at some point
These kinds of quick FAQs videos are awesome! Especially needed for constructions and materials considering how advanced the builds are getting every year. This might just scratch the surface but at least it gets some interesting topics covered. On a more technical note for anyone interested, I've recently started doing Post-grad engineering research into EPS surfboard constructions. DJ talks here about how fabrics like S-Glass, dent less, have higher tensile strength but are stiffer. These trade-offs are extremely hard to compare for everyone who doesn't have the opportunity to try out boards all the different constructions. The research I'm doing looks to not only put clear figures to words like flex performance and dent durability, which can be objectively compared (and as DJ notes unbiasedly) but more importantly we are also determining the level of difference that is noticeable by the everyday surfer. S-Glass might be stiffer than E-Glass on paper but if they can't be felt by the everyday surfer then the durability advantage might be more important. Either way Noel, your reviews are epic and I think about my own boards and how they match to my fins and the waves way more because of them. Keep ripping Cheers🤙
Hi I am a structural engineering student looking into this - please could we chat over a online meeting? I would love to chat!
I have a couple of standard shortboard from a local shaper in PU blank epoxy resin with 6x6 S glass. There is hardly any noticeable difference in flex to the average surfer like me, maybe a tiny bit stiffer and it feels like it weighs about the same as PU/poly with a standard glass job. It does pressure dent easier, I feel like the resin is more flexible than polyester but less brittle so you don't get those cracks in the glass. However after about 2 years there are zero dings in both and I've traveled with it a couple of times. I would recommend getting a resin tint or spray to mask the yellowing and always keep it in a bag. Overall cost maybe 20% more but lasted at least 2x as long compared to poly. PU/epoxy is the way to go for the average surfer. Great thing about is any small scale local shaper worldwide should be able to make it without needing special manufacturing equipment
Excellent post!!! Thanks
I would go with a 4 oz E bottom lam and a double 4 S deck. Also, the density of the blank used affects overall weight and the dent factor greatly. Board bags get hot inside. That's the main reason epoxy changes color. Unless you have a reflective foil bag you're baking the color into your favorite stick!
@onshore1ft thanks for sharing your experience. I agree that most average surfers won’t notice much of a difference with a slightly stiffer board.
However what confuses me is when you say the epoxy resin pressure dents easier, but dings less. If it’s supposedly stronger than poly resin that doesn’t make sense to me. Shouldn’t the stronger resin help prevent deck pressures as well? I just ordered a new board so deciding whether to ask for epoxy resin. Thank you.
@@jblo76 I’ve surfed Epoxy resin boards with PU foam and I didn’t notice more durability at all. Pressure dents seemed the same…
Unique contents
Varial Foam for the win 🥇
Dark Arts. Period. Nothing comparable for me.
Great review as always. It would be great if you could make a video talking about fins positioning on a surfboard, fins angle, separation between fins etc... Maybe you already have. I have seen you talk a lot about fins but I don't remember that you have made a video talking specifically about why the fins have a certain angle of inclination and separation depending on the shape of the board. Many thanks
That would be a great episode and I would be stoked to learn more about fin position on boards. However I think that info benefits a few of us… not to many folks are stoked on these types of episodes. Maybe one day…
@@surfnshowreviews7777 cheers pal
Yewww 🤙🏽
Are you going to do a video on the “Happy Everyday” by CI
This came at a perfect time for me. I'm about to re-glass most of my old Hypto Krypto... and I don't know what I'm doing.
Between Firewire Helium, LibTech, XTR and Varial there’s so much more out there than EPS vs. Poly. But a custom shaper/glasser obviously wouldn’t have anything positive to say about technologies that last longer because that would ultimately make them sell less boards, right?
I’m working on that episode next…. I hope every board builder wants boards to last a bit longer. It’s better for our environment.
It’s not just that, it’s about keeping up with demand, PU boards can be cranked out in no time. Epoxy needs curing in a temperature controlled environment too.
I am on my second LibTech board now (5’6” Swordfish, 1st a PJHP) and the quality of the new ones seems much better than in the past and as far as eco credentials go and durability - no one comes close, but you can’t get customs, the dims are often modified from stock and sizing can be tricky, due to slower production stock is often very limited.
@@3rdtonefromthesun The Lib Tech feels pretty heavy from the ones I held. I’ve never tried one but I hear they are durable.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 definitely heavier than a standard glassed PU, maybe close to a strong glass layup - a good option for when it’s solid surf, shore break, or bit choppy.
Broken boards drive annual profits! Want team light glass? Sure thing!
Another great video Noel. As i told you before Im planning to buy a pyzel in the next days...Im aware of the pros and cons of each glassing option but I still have some doubts on this topic. I had a couple of 6oz x 4oz surfboard and yes it gets stiffer and heavier that the standard 4oz x 4oz but definitly a bit more durable. Do you Noel (and guys) know if an 4oz x 4oz s cloth layer build can BE as strong as an 6 x 4oz e cloth? Im really considering this option but I have no idea of how it Will BE compared to the traditional e cloth 6x4 oz and how more durable or similar will be to pressure marks...and what about an 6 x 4 oz s cloth ? Will it BE stiffer than the e cloth right? It will affect way more the performance of the surfboard right? Thanks in advance! Cheers
Talk to the folks at Pyzel on your custom glass job. They will help you
Thanks for the great content Noel and DJ.
I just ordered a custom poly board and the shaper recommended 6 oz + 4 oz deck and 4 oz bottom. I’ll also have a volan deck patch. I’m not worried about pressure dents the deck at all, but feel that only 4 oz on the bottom might make my board more prone to dings over time.
In this case would you recommend I get epoxy resin for this poly board? Curious if anyone else reading this has had this concern and what you did. Thanks.
I don’t notice my boards being any stronger with epoxy resin…. Pressure dents seem similar. I know you are concerned about the bottom but like I said not much difference from Polyester resin from my experience
@@surfnshowreviews7777 thanks Noel. So if given the choice to make it stronger, would you just choose regular poly resin but with S-cloth/S-glass vs. doing epoxy resin?
@@jblo76 I would just go 3/4 S Cloth patch and single 4oz polyester resin.
I dig Your Cutback rebound,, BAAMM!!
We made, explored superlight blanks like a crunchy bar with way to much Bicarbonate of soda @ Dion Chemicals.
The Pores where so big it countered out the benefit. A single layer of six E drained top and bottom with a 5s Squidgied front and rear patch after it was sanded, We called Textra deck.
My Favourite board weighs a tonne?
Ripping Dude, rejoice in Your Shred Mate, Yum!
So why exactly is Indo heavier glassing a thing? (Apart from durability of ruff baggage handlers) is there a performance aspect in powerful windy conditions?
I personally like a bit more weight to my boards in bigger more powerful surf. The board is more stable and easier to engage the rail. The lighter boards seem to bounce around more and they are harder to controls. My thoughts are the same in windy conditions.
A heavier glass job will also make the board a bit stronger
Much more enjoyable shaping a PU blank over an EPS
Hey Noel how would you compare spinetek to dark arts? Thanks.
No comparison really. Nothing compares to Dark Arts…. The pop and projection is best described as “explosive” through turns on the Dark Arts construction. It’s on another level compared to all other EPS Constructions.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 thanks. Would you say the dark arts surfs better in a wider range of conditions than spinetek? Does it cut through choppy water better? Is it to fast or too much projection and harder to harness when there’s some juice in the wave? Thanks
@@orangshoes21 It can be a bit harder to control like all EPS/Epoxy constructions compared to PU/Poly
@@surfnshowreviews7777 if you had to choose between the pu and dark arts for 3-5 or 6 foot waves, which one would you choose?
@@orangshoes21 1-4’ surf I say Dark Arts, in 4-6’ surf I say PU.
How often do you get swells that are 4-6’ surf? We only get those swells maybe 10 times a year. I ride 1-4’ surf 90% of the time.
Man, I wish you could’ve shown the board types up close and explained the differences. Frankly, I can’t tell what’s what anymore. The terminologies have changed over the last two decades and so too the constructions. Is there a difference between epoxy and apoxy? Am I making that up? I remember in the early 2000’s all of a sudden everyone was talking, “apoxy”, and those were noticeably different, had like a shell on them, super light. I still see some. If a board has a stringer it’s a standard foam (minus factoring in density)? If not it’s an eps? Poly is foam right? Man I can’t make sense of it all or keep up. I have two firewires and no clue what they are. One is helium the other some other name (seaside and glazer). My RNF 96 has a stringer, I say it’s foam but I’m not even sure these days...
EPS is the foam core and it stands for Expanded Polystyrene and it can only be glassed with epoxy resin. Polyurethane is your typical foam (not EPS) and it’s usually glassed with Polyester Resin. However Polyurethane Foam can be glassed with either Polyester resin or Epoxy Resin.
Back in early 2000’s and late 1990’s everyone just called the EPS boards “Epoxy.” Now there are different types of foam cores. You can find a lot of information on board technology on the internet…. Just Google it.
@@surfnshowreviews7777 thanks for the reply. Yeah, it’s hard to all jeep straight. And it used to be a lot easier to tell. I wasn’t a fan of epoxy boards when they first came out. They seemed too light and I recall they had like a shell that wrapped them, like an M&M. Now they don’t? I’m gonna go back and watch some of your old shows. I think there’s a few that sorta talk about the differences. I’m going reread your last reply and see if I can keep it all straight. Do any epoxy’s have stringers? I assume then, both a helium and lft are epoxy technically. And my RNF having a wood stringer, a traditional foam. Thanks.
Yes Mike, eps blanks come with stringers and without stringers. Stringers of wood, polyvinylchloride, and high density polyurethane foam, which is very similar in flex character as the pvc.
@@surfershaper crazy. So there’s no defining characteristic that can make the distinctions overtly obvious then? There’s was just Clarke foam when I got into surfing. Then the epoxy crap confused me. And now more so cause they’re making them so good now.
@@mikeuptegrove right, it's difficult to discern the differences. There is a certain reflection a pu blank has in light that gives it away, especially if it's glossed and polished. Otherwise, the rest are very similar.