Motive - I've got this boyfriend - I think I'll commit 13 murders to get his attention. This is so ridiculous and is a perfect example of the absurdity of some of the public's minds. This I think is a perverse mode of thinking. Simply juxtaposing two objects to explain a series of possible events that have nothing necessarily to do with either of those objects. Oh, sh'es a narcissistic psychopath, that's why she did it - she was an only child and her parents doted on her - so that's why she did it - pathetic. I'm surprised that we're not all killing each other.
The woman's nerves are probably shot to hell - and people expect her to behave as they imagine they themselves would, when they have no idea what her psychological state must be.
Failing to commit Lucy Letby on all charges is like failing to bury a body. It's as if they've left her arm and leg sticking out of the ground. That's why it's important for the prosecution to have a retrial because If they were wrong about these babies, then maybe they were wrong about all the babies. They want to completely bury her, which they feel will remove any possible public doubt, but it will also complete their crime! Why should Lucy be crying for those babies 7-8 years on? Is anyone else from Countess of Chester Hospital crying for those babies now? Lucy didn't cry for the babies at tries = must be guilty. Lucy has lost everything but she's not allowed to be upset. Lucy cries because she's lost everything = must be a narcissist. This type of blunt unsophisticated blaming attitude is one of the many evils that has been present in this trial. The graph only showed the babies that died when LL was on. Of course it's going to show a solid line. Only a graph with all the deaths would show the real picture. Cherry-picking all day long! This is what is required for the prosecution picture to be real. Lucy wold need to have spent her entire life living a lie, a facade, fooling everyone she's ever met. Then when things go wrong at the hospital and blame is likely to be aimed at the doctors, Lucy lets loose her secret evil desire and becomes a serial killer. I think this trial says more about humanity, society, morality, government funding, the state of the NHS, and the outdated wig-wearing 'justice' system!
They didn't need a motivate, she's in prison for life. I know It's upsetting that she committed those heinous murders and also upsetting that she has to have such a punishment but it had to be done. Psychoanalysing why a serial killer commits crimes is interesting but the important thing is lucy will never be able to murder again.
I agree. And they never really provided one with sufficient evidence. Also, there was never a proper confession, and she (along with her friends/family/some colleagues) maintains her innocence throughout the trial. Makes you wonder.
You mentioned the spreadsheet and that it put her on shift for every death she's convicted of. Im not arguing for her innocence or anything but the sheet doesn't cover all the deaths in that time period, there were actually 17 so my question is what was the cause of death in the other 10 babies?
Wow, SO MUCH I’d like to say about the end of the trial, don’t know how much space RUclips will allow for comments. Sorry to hear that you’ve been poorly, Hannah. Glad to know that you’re improved now. Whatever I say now, let me first say that I have immense sympathy for the families of the babies, and I mean them no disrespect by anything I say. Now - the charges which the jury couldn’t decide on. This means that the jury couldn’t achieve a unanimous OR a majority verdict. So some of them felt there was “reasonable doubt”. So (hypothetically) what if there was a retrial and on these charges Letby is acquitted or we have another hung jury? Will anyone EVER accept the notion that she is innocent of these charges? Or (human nature being what it is) will people just assume that she is guilty regardless of the acquittal? I gather that there is already a movement being started to crowdfund her appeal, and I heard that an American (statistician, I think) said that the law wasn’t applied correctly, meaning a disproportionate weight was given to statistical evidence. Some people are determined that this trial represents a huge miscarriage of justice, and that Letby is in fact innocent. Time will tell on that. All we can say is that Letby has been judged to be guilty on (some) charges, As for “dragging prisoners into court to hear their sentence”. If the law is changed to allow for this, it cannot be applied retrospectively. So Letby will never stand in court to hear her sentence. I may add further comments later
Hi Mike! I’m glad I’m better too! There’s so much to digest isn’t there? I think the proposal is that reasonable force could be used on prisoners- it’ll be interesting to see if it becomes law as it’ll have to get through Parliament.
I saw the story about an appeal but I don’t think she will appeal. The Court of Appeal have to grant permission and there has to be new and compelling evidence. As far as I can see, there’s no new evidence. People are also finding it hard to accept that a nurse who looked ‘normal’ could be a serial killer. I thought the spreadsheet was very damming evidence.
Do I accept that Letby is guilty? My problem is that, being found guilty in a court of law is not always the same as having committed the crimes of which someone has been accused. There is ONE person in this whole world who knows with 100% certainty whether or not Letby committed these acts, and that is Letby herself. She has been to court, and two KCs have presented their version of events. Having considered it at length, the Jury have said that they accept the prosecution’s version of events. And maybe they’re right, perhaps she DID in fact commit these acts. I don’t know if she did or not. Personally, knowing the effort it took to become a qualified nurse, I struggle to equate that with someone undertaking a “killing spree”. I think it’s always worth remembering that our system of law, eventually comes down to convincing a jury, and being human beings juries CAN be misled. But let’s accept the premise that she did commit the crimes and put aside the preconception that women are nurturers and not killers. Her motive? The only explanation which makes any sort of sense to me is to say that her acts were an expression of munchausen syndrome by proxy. It’s a tentative suggestion which seems to fit the facts, there could be other motives, equally plausible.
No I haven't, but if I was called to do so, I would do my best to judge according to the evidence. Even though it probably would bug the heck out of me that my (our) judgement might be wrong. Do you have any experience of jury service?
Spreadsheet didn’t show 17 deaths and 30 collapses at same time or increase in patients. Hospital was not equipped to deal with influx. Lucia De Berks Doctors also believed she was guilty. Check out her case it’s eerily similar even name & they look alike.
I can relate to these responses from people who question the verdict, whilst at the same time believing that the guilty verdict is the right one. Like others, i question each single piece of evidence, none alone offers conclusive proof. Put them all together, though, as well as the spreadsheet, and the guilty verdict makes sense. Way too many 'coincidences'
there was a figurine ornament on the drawers at the end of her bed in the police photos, center stage, that ornament has very special meaning, no one has ever mentioned it but that figurine reflects her soul, that figurine is known as the 'angel of death'
I just googled angel of death figurine. Sorry, but I see no resemblance. I expanded her bedroom photo and the figurine looks like it's for hanging jewelry.
What I would like to know is how much did Dr. Dewi Evans get paid for his consultancy fees with the police. I actually think that this role should be carried out free of charge but accepting that it is very unlikely that this will ever be the case I think it only fair that it should be made public just how much payment is involved in this. You know, just to give us an idea how lucrative it is.
Also regarding attending for sentencing. They are proposing adding 2 years to sentence if they refuse to attend which in Lucy Letbys case would have made no difference with a whole life sentence.
Insulin administration for pre term neonates is extremely risky and in each case would have required a mult-disciplinary meeting and close monitoring as dosages change hour by hour. The dosage is only given by the shift doctor who does the math, that dose is handed over to the nurses on shift and imo at that time the countess physicians was incompetent at this level of care thus blame the only competent nurse on shift who probably pulled in more hours than any other therefore with more neonates, what is the competency of the other nurses - was they agency?
@@learnlawwithhannahCan you at least do some basic research. There are teams of medical experts who have been discussing the case for months who have torn the prosecution evidence apart.
@@ruthbashford3176 Well, it would seem because so-called expert witnesses are far more willing to offer their opinion on social media after conviction and far less willing to offer the same opinion in open court, on oath where they can be challenged on the stand. 🤷
@@ruthbashford3176 Well, they don't necessarily have to be an 'expert'. They just have to have acquired sufficient knowledge through study or experience in that particular field. The jury is under no obligation to take expert evidence as gospel anyway, so given the broad scope, you would think the defence could offer their own 'expert' to take the stand with an alternative explanation for the deaths, yet it seems no one was willing. They are, however, more than willing to go through the irrelevance of picking holes on social media after conviction. Have you ever wondered why that might be?
She would have to have grounds to appeal though - the convictions have to be potentially unsafe, so there must new evidence or allegations of jury tampering
You don’t have to be on shift to kill a patient - it happened in America (ICU) where a nurse was injecting iV fluid bags with digoxin and the bags would be used randomly.
As a ex offender ( firearms) it would 2:07 be an impossible task to force accused to cour5. There are so many movements and the prison are and have been struggling for years. There's no chance the wing staff could cope and or g4s serco geo amy
Yes that’s what I think too- it’s very difficult to physically move a person and I’m not sure what purpose it would serve. Some of the families said they were glad she didn’t appear
@@learnlawwithhannah From studying many many trials in the US and other countries, mandatory presence at sentencing rarely causes issues that require the measures I mentioned, that was my point.
Hi, I hope you made a full recovery. Can I ask, do you think LL is guilty now that the verdict has been delivered? (Obviously, you don't after answer) My thoughts... I do believe she is guilty. However, having worked in the NHS, a lot of things get sweeped under the carpet. The bosses want everything to run perfectly with no drama but, it doesn't work like that and they don't live in the real world because when something do's happen or, staff raise awareness or grievance like I say, it gets brushed under the carpet. NHS is a triangle upside down (Top heavy down to the Band 6). They (Bosses) only care about themselves and their pensions, and even then, when retired, they come back working and charge what they like (Greedy) Why do I think LL did this.. Thrill, power, seeing the Dr. and plane and simple jealousy towards the parents as LL wanted them un-happy like she was ______CARPET______ Or, is she not guilty!
I was surprised with the verdict. I think she is probably guilty because of the insulin cases but correct that some cases there wasn't enough evidence for conviction so I hope the families in those cases can take comfort from her being served justice for the other cases. Agree about forcing people to hear verdict. Sadly the public rarely consider practicalities . Can you say more about a potential appeal?
Motive - I've got this boyfriend - I think I'll commit 13 murders to get his attention.
This is so ridiculous and is a perfect example of the absurdity of some of the public's minds. This I think is a perverse mode of thinking. Simply juxtaposing two objects to explain a series of possible events that have nothing necessarily to do with either of those objects. Oh, sh'es a narcissistic psychopath, that's why she did it - she was an only child and her parents doted on her - so that's why she did it - pathetic. I'm surprised that we're not all killing each other.
The woman's nerves are probably shot to hell - and people expect her to behave as they imagine they themselves would, when they have no idea what her psychological state must be.
Could you be more specific please?
@@nicholamc2629Oh please.
🤔
@@johnwayper3660 No really.
@@nicholamc2629 Yes I know.
Failing to commit Lucy Letby on all charges is like failing to bury a body. It's as if they've left her arm and leg sticking out of the ground. That's why it's important for the prosecution to have a retrial because If they were wrong about these babies, then maybe they were wrong about all the babies. They want to completely bury her, which they feel will remove any possible public doubt, but it will also complete their crime!
Why should Lucy be crying for those babies 7-8 years on? Is anyone else from Countess of Chester Hospital crying for those babies now? Lucy didn't cry for the babies at tries = must be guilty. Lucy has lost everything but she's not allowed to be upset. Lucy cries because she's lost everything = must be a narcissist. This type of blunt unsophisticated blaming attitude is one of the many evils that has been present in this trial.
The graph only showed the babies that died when LL was on. Of course it's going to show a solid line. Only a graph with all the deaths would show the real picture. Cherry-picking all day long!
This is what is required for the prosecution picture to be real. Lucy wold need to have spent her entire life living a lie, a facade, fooling everyone she's ever met. Then when things go wrong at the hospital and blame is likely to be aimed at the doctors, Lucy lets loose her secret evil desire and becomes a serial killer.
I think this trial says more about humanity, society, morality, government funding, the state of the NHS, and the outdated wig-wearing 'justice' system!
If you gonna convict someone with circumstantial evidence, then you better have a motive.
They didn't need a motivate, she's in prison for life.
I know It's upsetting that she committed those heinous murders and also upsetting that she has to have such a punishment but it had to be done. Psychoanalysing why a serial killer commits crimes is interesting but the important thing is lucy will never be able to murder again.
I agree. And they never really provided one with sufficient evidence.
Also, there was never a proper confession, and she (along with her friends/family/some colleagues) maintains her innocence throughout the trial. Makes you wonder.
You mentioned the spreadsheet and that it put her on shift for every death she's convicted of. Im not arguing for her innocence or anything but the sheet doesn't cover all the deaths in that time period, there were actually 17 so my question is what was the cause of death in the other 10 babies?
There were no murders that's one thing for sure. This is illustrated by the lack of any real evidence against her.
Nee subscriber here. Awesome delivery 👏 👌 🙌
Welcome to the channel 👏👏👏
Wow, SO MUCH I’d like to say about the end of the trial, don’t know how much space RUclips will allow for comments.
Sorry to hear that you’ve been poorly, Hannah. Glad to know that you’re improved now.
Whatever I say now, let me first say that I have immense sympathy for the families of the babies, and I mean them no disrespect by anything I say.
Now - the charges which the jury couldn’t decide on. This means that the jury couldn’t achieve a unanimous OR a majority verdict. So some of them felt there was “reasonable doubt”. So (hypothetically) what if there was a retrial and on these charges Letby is acquitted or we have another hung jury? Will anyone EVER accept the notion that she is innocent of these charges? Or (human nature being what it is) will people just assume that she is guilty regardless of the acquittal?
I gather that there is already a movement being started to crowdfund her appeal, and I heard that an American (statistician, I think) said that the law wasn’t applied correctly, meaning a disproportionate weight was given to statistical evidence. Some people are determined that this trial represents a huge miscarriage of justice, and that Letby is in fact innocent.
Time will tell on that. All we can say is that Letby has been judged to be guilty on (some) charges,
As for “dragging prisoners into court to hear their sentence”. If the law is changed to allow for this, it cannot be applied retrospectively. So Letby will never stand in court to hear her sentence.
I may add further comments later
Hi Mike!
I’m glad I’m better too! There’s so much to digest isn’t there?
I think the proposal is that reasonable force could be used on prisoners- it’ll be interesting to see if it becomes law as it’ll have to get through Parliament.
I saw the story about an appeal but I don’t think she will appeal. The Court of Appeal have to grant permission and there has to be new and compelling evidence. As far as I can see, there’s no new evidence.
People are also finding it hard to accept that a nurse who looked ‘normal’ could be a serial killer.
I thought the spreadsheet was very damming evidence.
Do I accept that Letby is guilty?
My problem is that, being found guilty in a court of law is not always the same as having committed the crimes of which someone has been accused.
There is ONE person in this whole world who knows with 100% certainty whether or not Letby committed these acts, and that is Letby herself.
She has been to court, and two KCs have presented their version of events.
Having considered it at length, the Jury have said that they accept the prosecution’s version of events.
And maybe they’re right, perhaps she DID in fact commit these acts. I don’t know if she did or not. Personally, knowing the effort it took to become a qualified nurse, I struggle to equate that with someone undertaking a “killing spree”.
I think it’s always worth remembering that our system of law, eventually comes down to convincing a jury, and being human beings juries CAN be misled.
But let’s accept the premise that she did commit the crimes and put aside the preconception that women are nurturers and not killers. Her motive? The only explanation which makes any sort of sense to me is to say that her acts were an expression of munchausen syndrome by proxy. It’s a tentative suggestion which seems to fit the facts, there could be other motives, equally plausible.
@@mikeshears8112 I think being on a jury is difficult full stop let alone on this case.
Have you ever done jury service?
No I haven't, but if I was called to do so, I would do my best to judge according to the evidence. Even though it probably would bug the heck out of me that my (our) judgement might be wrong. Do you have any experience of jury service?
Spreadsheet didn’t show 17 deaths and 30 collapses at same time or increase in patients.
Hospital was not equipped to deal with influx. Lucia De Berks Doctors also believed she was guilty. Check out her case it’s eerily similar even name & they look alike.
I’ve just googled that case- VERY interesting
I can relate to these responses from people who question the verdict, whilst at the same time believing that the guilty verdict is the right one. Like others, i question each single piece of evidence, none alone offers conclusive proof. Put them all together, though, as well as the spreadsheet, and the guilty verdict makes sense. Way too many 'coincidences'
there was a figurine ornament on the drawers at the end of her bed in the police photos, center stage, that ornament has very special meaning, no one has ever mentioned it but that figurine reflects her soul, that figurine is known as the 'angel of death'
I just googled angel of death figurine. Sorry, but I see no resemblance. I expanded her bedroom photo and the figurine looks like it's for hanging jewelry.
Interesting
What I would like to know is how much did Dr. Dewi Evans get paid for his consultancy fees with the police.
I actually think that this role should be carried out free of charge but accepting that it is very unlikely that this will ever be the case I think it only fair that it should be made public just how much payment is involved in this. You know, just to give us an idea how lucrative it is.
Expert witnesses do get paid quite a lot I think
I wonder if you could do a FOI request?
@@learnlawwithhannah I bet.
@danswhite8544 Oh. Thanks for letting us know how much that was.
Also regarding attending for sentencing. They are proposing adding 2 years to sentence if they refuse to attend which in Lucy Letbys case would have made no difference with a whole life sentence.
That’s one of the problems! Also, would Letby feel any remorse as she showed very little during the trial?
@@learnlawwithhannah Ah her feelings are not the point, it's for the parents' benefit, not hers.
I hadn't heard that, what a great proposal!
@@nicholamc2629 Some parents said they were glad she didn’t attend and enjoy their pain - it’s been so traumatic for all the parents 😔
@@learnlawwithhannah Ah I did not know that thank you! I only heard about the ones who were really disgusted by her absence.
Insulin administration for pre term neonates is extremely risky and in each case would have required a mult-disciplinary meeting and close monitoring as dosages change hour by hour. The dosage is only given by the shift doctor who does the math, that dose is handed over to the nurses on shift and imo at that time the countess physicians was incompetent at this level of care thus blame the only competent nurse on shift who probably pulled in more hours than any other therefore with more neonates, what is the competency of the other nurses - was they agency?
LUCY LETBY INNOCENT!!!!!!!!!!!!! FREE THAT INNOCENT WOMEN NOW!
Can you elaborate?
@@learnlawwithhannahCan you at least do some basic research. There are teams of medical experts who have been discussing the case for months who have torn the prosecution evidence apart.
@@jono1457-qd9ftHave none of them registered as expert witnesses?
@@ruthbashford3176 Well, it would seem because so-called expert witnesses are far more willing to offer their opinion on social media after conviction and far less willing to offer the same opinion in open court, on oath where they can be challenged on the stand. 🤷
@@ruthbashford3176 Well, they don't necessarily have to be an 'expert'. They just have to have acquired sufficient knowledge through study or experience in that particular field. The jury is under no obligation to take expert evidence as gospel anyway, so given the broad scope, you would think the defence could offer their own 'expert' to take the stand with an alternative explanation for the deaths, yet it seems no one was willing. They are, however, more than willing to go through the irrelevance of picking holes on social media after conviction. Have you ever wondered why that might be?
unsafe conviction, too many unanswered questions.. What about the deaths when wasn't on shift etc.. Out in a few years after appeal.
She would have to have grounds to appeal though - the convictions have to be potentially unsafe, so there must new evidence or allegations of jury tampering
@Lucy-jz7sg One death in the seven years after she left. When all the circumstantial evidence is added up then it becomes very compelling.
@@learnlawwithhannah no evidence,,, yet...
You don’t have to be on shift to kill a patient - it happened in America (ICU) where a nurse was injecting iV fluid bags with digoxin and the bags would be used randomly.
What a idiot!! The child that was insulin poisoned while she wasn’t on shift didn’t die, she is a vile evil baby murderer and u are a complete div
As a ex offender ( firearms) it would 2:07 be an impossible task to force accused to cour5. There are so many movements and the prison are and have been struggling for years. There's no chance the wing staff could cope and or g4s serco geo amy
Yes that’s what I think too- it’s very difficult to physically move a person and I’m not sure what purpose it would serve. Some of the families said they were glad she didn’t appear
It's having a strange effect on people's health, huh?
Get in the wheelchair or get tasered. Done. Spit masks and binds. It's up to the convict how difficult they want it to be.
You support the death penalty I take it?!
@@learnlawwithhannah No, I do not.
@@learnlawwithhannah From studying many many trials in the US and other countries, mandatory presence at sentencing rarely causes issues that require the measures I mentioned, that was my point.
@@nicholamc2629 I thought that was what you were talking about?
@@nicholamc2629 I get you now- I thought you were talking about the sentence! It’s been a long day!
Hi,
I hope you made a full recovery.
Can I ask, do you think LL is guilty now that the verdict has been delivered? (Obviously, you don't after answer)
My thoughts...
I do believe she is guilty.
However, having worked in the NHS, a lot of things get sweeped under the carpet. The bosses want everything to run perfectly with no drama but, it doesn't work like that and they don't live in the real world because when something do's happen or, staff raise awareness or grievance like I say, it gets brushed under the carpet.
NHS is a triangle upside down (Top heavy down to the Band 6). They (Bosses) only care about themselves and their pensions, and even then, when retired, they come back working and charge what they like (Greedy)
Why do I think LL did this..
Thrill, power, seeing the Dr. and plane and simple jealousy towards the parents as LL wanted them un-happy like she was
______CARPET______
Or, is she not guilty!
I think that she’s guilty. Initially I wasn’t sure but a lot of stuff came out in the press after the trial
I was surprised with the verdict. I think she is probably guilty because of the insulin cases but correct that some cases there wasn't enough evidence for conviction so I hope the families in those cases can take comfort from her being served justice for the other cases.
Agree about forcing people to hear verdict. Sadly the public rarely consider practicalities .
Can you say more about a potential appeal?