Sadly management will likely have liability insurance - police should step in and charge them with aiding and abetting as a wake up call, and if they aren’t considering this they should be…you would get rapid change to NHS culture, procedure and policy then without the mega expense and money wasting. It’s called dealing with it.
the most frustrating thing, and why these events occur , is that these people have never been brought in front of a judge and have to explain their reasoning at the time. They will learn nothing
Over an extended period of time, in an NHS hospital not far from me, 456 patients were murdered by staff. Nineteen suspects were identified in relation to the killings. No action was ever taken, of course, as the victims were all elderly and simply didn't matter!
And you believe the consultants who of course never lie. Its odd they never said anything to the Coroner about their suspicions when the babies were found to have died from natural causes.
I agree, us nurses have to answer to the Nursing and Midwifery council (NMC) and pay for our license every year. The doctors have to answer to the General Medical Council (GMC) and pay them, they judge our practice against a code of conduct,they allow us to have a licence to work and we are accountable to them. Nurses and doctors have to have indemnity insurance to practice, I think managers who work in the NHS should also be governed by a professional body and be accountable to them .
Come on, she NEVER wrote that *she was responsible for these murders*. Lets hope this doesn't turn into a massive miscarriage of justice like Sally Clark and the other mums put in prison accused of murdering their children when these children in fact died because of cot death. I remember listening to people talk about these women at the time. Sounds just like you talking now!
@@ceo.collinsThere were 25 incidents where she was present for every single one and the most another nurse was there was 7. So what? There are 3 killer nurses and Letby is a victim?
Circumstantial evidence only, no motive, no admission of guilt apart from cherry picked handwritten notes that also states the opposite. Something strange is going on. I don't know if she did it or not, but I cant see the proof she did it 100% other than circumstantial evidence. There is a bad smell around all this, i dont buy it
This lady is a Caucasian blue-eyed blond, totally in utterly trustworthy with the highest degree awarded in her field, she’s calm, intelligent and deals with a situation with the upmost professionalism. I too agree with your views, my view, the doctors ganged up on her.
I feel very uneasy about all this. Where is any real proof? There is something strange going on. Don't like that something she wrote in distress has convicted her.
@@Lemontea-y71that’s not the only evidence used though, she was witnessed being the only one present when a baby’s breathing tube was dislodged, she is the only staff member who was present EVERY single time something unexpected and untoward happened to a baby, the deaths also stopped after she left the trust.
I totally agree with you, it certainly is not without reasonable doubt. I think she has been the fall guy for a much deeper issue involving doctors and other staff, giving sub standard care. Better that 1 goes down rather than the whole ship??
If I was guilty I would have quit when doctors were insinuating that I had done it. But instead she demanded an apology and stayed employed at the hospital. That makes me think she might not be guilty. The evidence was all circumstantial.
@@lisachrister9990 I agree with you but the thing with narcissists is that they don't see their actions as being wrong, therefore she was probably feeling confident that she could turn it back on them & she managed to do just that for a while. I think this is why she got her parents to threaten to report the doctors to the GMC & demanded that they apologize to her. So in effect, she succeeded in making herself out to be a victim & this is why a lot of people are fooled by narcissists as they are highly manipulative.
@@adrianh332 go & say that to the thousands of other comments on here saying exactly the same thing, including qualified psychiatrists & narcissists themselves.
Just goes to prove that management without medical qualifications in health facilities, needs to be looked at. Why would such unqualified managers ignore, or even worse turn against their own clinicians opinions?
Management in any for of industry needs to have qualifications in that industry, tbh. So many don't, do business and finance degrees and think that they know how an industry works.... smh
Over an extended period of time, in an NHS hospital not far from me, 456 patients were murdered by staff. Nineteen suspects were identified in relation to the killings. No action was ever taken, of course, as the victims were all elderly and simply didn't matter!
I have worked in the NHS and I have a non-medical qualifications. That's a gross oversimplification. I have seen situations where clinical staff want to bypass and force certain things through without proper due care. It goes both ways. The real problem is the NHS culture itself. Sadly the NHS do not attract capable people. The few who I have come across that are excellent at what they do, they do not stay in the NHS for long as soon as a job opens up in the private sector, and therefore the NHS ends up with 'leftovers'. This is how you end up with lesser skilled managers who are in positions of power looking out for themselves and are more often than not playing power games and trying to secure their legacy, and in turn they hire people to bolster their power base ie. politicians. These people then dictate the culture and that gets filtered down. That is the real issue.
Why wasn't this picked up earlier Well, I shall tell you - as far as the NHS Trust Higher management is concerned the priority is to prevent/cover up any potential bad publicity in addition all the hype about encouraging whistle blowers well, whistle blowers are treated with contempt and they know it therefore, tend to keep quite, whistle blowers also identify problems and these problems will ultimately result in bad publicity ! 49 years unbroken service as a Registered NHS Nurse, by the way!
I'm curious why you haven't been in the offices kicking off? Forming protest groups? In the press whistle blowing your self? A quiet life maybe? Not your place?
IF the babies were indeed murdered (and there is no proof they were - autopsy found natural causes) then the ward was a crime scence. So why weren't the doctors investigated as suspects? Why were they allowed to guide the investigation?
Ok but where did the synthetic insulin and air bubbles come from? They also found her private notes at home and in her journal/diary as well as stolen records. I believe they're deliberately not revealing all the causes of death so other killers don't get inspiration
If the only outlier was Lucy and she was responsible for it all why was the hospital downgraded from a level 2 to level 1 care hospital at the same time she was removed from the ward? If she was the only problem why did they need to reduce the level of care to babies born over 32 weeks? That doesn’t make sense
I don't know about the down grade within the ward, but all of the baby collapses were originally at night when Letby was then moved to daytime shifts. The collapses started in the day, and there were no issues when she was on holiday for a week within 42 hours of her being back from holiday 2 babies' collapses happened.
Jury under massive pressure to find her guilty when all family’s are in court. Also they were NOT told to NOT read media reports. One juror quit after 9 months and 2 weeks deliberation which would have made it a mistrial. The jury could not agree and couldn’t decide on 6 charges which completely contradicts the other guilty charges. And who were the jurors on such a high profile case it’s well known the police infiltrate jury’s on big cases another aspect of judiciary corruption never made public. The police made sure they fed the media damning stories about her for years and even referred to her as killer nurse before she was found guilty. That proves police and media work together just like they did with Birmingham 6 and Hillsborough. This case stinks to high heaven. Our police forces are corrupt AF and riddled with bent coppers
One thing was that was absolutely certain about this, is that after her being found guilty, the conspiracy theory idiots would be out in force. Weeks of evidence, all of it heard by the jury and not by you, then weeks of the jury deliberating, but no, idiots know better
Delusional. "Yes your Honour, she killed all those kids, dead to rights, but because we couldn't decide on 6 counts you'd better let her walk free" Wake up and educate yourself. You sound like a complete tool
The above interview with the hack and the ex cop is a classic example of what you're pointing to. No hard evidence. All circumstantial. Lots of groundless speculation. No proper challenge to the prosecution's medical expert opinion evidence. Heavy reliance on statistics relating to work patterns and deaths. Professor Sir Roy Meadows springs to mind. The conditions are ripe for miscarriage of justice.
Because the public will complain about privacy rights, big brother and government intrusion. I was involved some years ago in a social services system that would help keep children safe, didn't happen because of public outcry, it would have been fantastic.
@@nathanwilliams9176 I see your point clearly, but this would have saved several babies' lives. If we think it reasonable to have cctv in shops to protect against steaks being stolen, surely the most vulnerable babies imaginable are worth more than a few commodities. Maybe humanity should start thinking outside the box on this one, IMHO only.
She's certainly the ideal scapegoat. They wouldn't have dared to do this with a more vocal person free of self-doubts. They've exploited her personal attributes to the full. She's like one of those people who stood quietly in line for the gas chamber at Auschwitz, resigned to their fate. The prosecution claims to have found copious "notes", only one of which, however, contains anything that comes close to a confession - which though, as any educated person should be able to see, is not actually a confession but rather simply expressions of her anxiety about how she will be perceived by others, in light of the serious accusations.
She was a easy target for the police, who we all know are not to trusted, Murderers Rapist's, Thieves need I say more. 22 people murdered and over 200 badly injured in the 1974 Birmingham pub Bomings , NOBODY CHARGED oh I forgot 6 MEN CHARGED WHO DIDN'T DO IT.
You are quite right. I spent 14 years examining and building evidence for Court Cases Point one The Judge himself stated that (by averages) some of the babies brought into neo natal would die. Second point (I volunteer in A and E) there will be a number of Doctors Consultants other nurses lower grade nurses cleaners in and around that unit over a period of time and someone picks on one?
People need to read the case of a Dutch Nurse who was also found guilty in almost identical circumstances , her name is Lucia De Berk , it was found to be a miscarriage of justice .
Nope It was NOT identical circumstances at all In Lucy's case, there was a lot of other evidence aside from the medical Such as the BADIC fact that babies stopped dying as soon as she was moved
@adrianh332 This nurse has been made a scapegoat of the grossly bad hospital procedures. Ask the questions of leaking sewage directly above the cribs. Her notes she took home, were what the tutors said to do. However, this was not stated to tge jury. Made to look like she did this stealthily...
Why do you say that? I’m curious. She was the common denominator in all of these deaths. The jury deliberated for 22 days. Obviously, nobody wanted to believe she did it because she’s very pretty and doesn’t look the part. How can you discredit the doctors and their well-founded suspicions? The facts speak for themselves.
@@chynnadoll3277the reason why people are pointing out that the evidence did not meet the beyond reasonable doubt standard is because it was all circumstantial. No hard evidence that anyone was murdered.
Writing things down is not admission of guilt she also wrote ‘ I didn’t do this, libel, slander , maybe I did this because I’m not good enough’ They cherry picked from her notes
Yes, the notes look like they are written by someone who is very distressed and is writing down her racing thoughts. It doesn’t look like a confession at all!
Howay Jamesc7019 suppose that her own legal team cherry picked evidence and questions, even her own legal team when it came to mitigation they literally said nothing even her defense could see that she was guilty.
@@user-od3be8ny4o she also wrote the initials of the babies in her diary who she attacked, along with their dob, dates they were attacked & dates they died & had a colour coded system relating to the crimes.
Over an extended period of time, in an NHS hospital not far from me, 456 patients were murdered by staff. Nineteen suspects were identified in relation to the killings. No action was ever taken, of course, as the victims were all elderly and simply didn't matter!
Here in greece it happened as well, only investigated because one lady still had family who went to the police. They were killing them and stealing their money. Again, it was a large group of perpetrators.
@@ruthisaurus8004 I think the hospital mentioned may be the Gosport War Memorial Hospital. You can find all the information online. Just type in Dr. Barton. It's ongoing, and being investigated.
The senior management team who dismissed as tittle-tattle the consultant paediatricians expressions of serious concerns about Nurse Letby and told them to go away and stop making a fuss should themselves be dismissed with the loss of all accrued occupational pension along with any other benefits. In this country people are seldom, if ever held accountable for their gross misconduct regardless of the severity of the consequences of their incompetence. In this tearful case the Trust's executives prioritised the Hospital's reputation in favour of the safety of the infants with whose welfare they were entrusted. .....MAN, MAN OH MAN.....
And managers that don’t have the professional and industrial background should never be in the job. Especially when it comes to health care. Also, just because a person has a relevant degree does not meant that the person has the competence, the knowledge or the right attitude for the job.
@@christinefiedor3518- Exactly. Well said. Im Canada, we now have acvountants, business people, social workers and even an activity worker in charge of facilities!! Like, wtf??!! NONE of that qualifies you to be in charge of patients/residents/staff.
I trained in the NHS and was very proud of is but now keep quiet about that. I trained both in general and paediatric nursing with paediatric my first training. I staffed in surgical neonatal.which is particularly challenging. I believe this is only one of the downfalls of degree training . Entry requirements for student nurses were just as tough if not tougher and didn’t take just anybody. Also the teaching hospital was the college of nursing as well as the employer. Now sadly we seeing more nurses whose hearts are not in it …..it’s just a job to to them. There’s not the same teamwork spirit with comments like “I’m not doing that task. I’ve got a degree” . The traditional system was not broken and when somethings not broken, for gods sake don’t try to fix it. That said, I now live in Australia, and while not perfect, the standard of care is pretty high.@@paulinegauthier1867
Well if they thought murder had been committed then surely they could've gone straight to their police with their evidence? If I walk in to work and somebody is stabbing the receptionist to death I don't umm and ahh about whether I should call the police in case the boss wants to hush it all up. Somebody needs to take a close look at the consultants - especially the one she was sweet on.
@@paulinegauthier1867 I really never understood this line of reasoning. I don't want a bloody brain surgeon running a hospital and spending his or her time working out if they've ordered enough toilet rolls!!!
Yep. Some things aren't adding up for me. They're trying to make out that the insulin in the babies was unnatural and therefore obviously a crime had been committed. OK, so why did the consultants wait until 2017 to call in the police if it was that obvious? This "we got palmed off by the manager" nonsense is a red herring - you don't need permission from your boss to report a murder, and the consultants did indeed go to the police directly in 2017. The hospital had external investigations into the 10% increase in deaths but they couldn't find anything conclusive.
Exactly ..there should have been intervention much early on regards high mortality rate ..as this indicates severe failings ..before fingers were pointed
@@emmaaurelia1041 Though I think the staff knew, like one of the doctors said, he was happy she was on duty the first time. Also, if trust has broken down so badly, move her to a different ward.
How could they knowingly let so many more babies die the whole situation just doesn't add up heartbreaking thinking what the families had to go through
@@PGHEngineerI’d expect they were probably worried about losing their own jobs by kicking up a fuss and managers viewing their fuss as ruining their reputation. Doctors have to think about their livelihood and food on the table for their family
She may be innocent. I don't know the truth but this was an extremely shaky conviction. I for one will be donating to her appeal to hopefully get to the truth.
It was so NOT a "shakey" conviction !! It was an extremely thorough investigation and she is CLEARLY guilty Anyone following the case closely knows that People are making gross assumptions based on msm reports and sm stories and gossip The babies stopped dying as soon as she was moved The terrifying thing I'd, if she hadn't killed so many so frequently, she would have gotten away it
@@evesapplebut you are supporting an unsafe verdict that is possibly misleading families to believe their child has been murdered. Do you understand how hard that is to live with? A natural death is difficult enough but a murder is unbearable. People are absolutely correct to question this verdict because if it is wrong it may have caused an unimaginable amount of pain unnecessary to a lot of people and destroyed a young nurse. It will also call into question the safety of police investigation and the judiciary. The facts and science support that this may be an unsafe conviction. Keep an open mind and don't be lead by tabloid headlines.
She needs to appeal. This trial is shocking, and scientists have now compiled a WEALTH of scientific evidence that smashes the prosecutions already tenuous case out of the park. A quick glance into the hygiene of this unit, not to mention the competence of some of the staff, straight away raises questions. The fact that the mortality rate dropped when the unit was downgraded to a level 1 and was unable therefore to take any critically ill patients (2017) and then rose again the following year to a higher rate than 2015-16 speaks volumes. How on earth are people just blindly accepting a verdict that is so blatantly misguided? The deaths occurred were of course tragic, and could possibly have been avoided, but based on the evidence it seems unlikely they were the result of one murderous nurse. Please, read up on the science rather than the emotive headlines.
Regardless of hygiene or any of the other things you have mentioned, their would be absolutely no reason for any baby to have artificial insulin circulating in their blood stream unless it had been given intentionally with intent to harm. Poor hygiene doesn’t lead to babies being overdosed on a medication that should never be in their system to begin with, nor does it cause breathing tubes to just miraculously get dislodged by themself.
@@LMAO2510 I'm not dealing with this case sadly but I am supporting the group that is working to get the conviction over turned. I too believed she was guilty last weekend. Then when the sentence was given, things just didn't sit right with me and I went away and researched HEAVILY. And I suddenly realised all of the strangeness about the case - lack of motive, lack of modus operandi, no history of violent/odd behaviour, normal childhood and everything else that is not only expected but is standard for a serial killer made sense. She wasn't a serial killer and all the evidence, that for some reason best known to the defense team, points towards natural deaths. Read rex vs Lucy if you wish to read scientific peer reviewed facts that explain the deaths from qualified experts. If you still believe she's guilty after that, then that's up to you. I just hope you never find yourself facing a whole life tariff on the grounds of a rota and post it note, but don't worry, if you do, there is a growing group of people who are willing to put forward their own money and time to help you where the system has failed.
@@H20x3 hi head over to rex vs Lucy and scroll down to 'Causes for discordant insulin and c-peptide levels were not revealed to the court by experts' it explains it very succinctly. Even without this perfectly logical explanation, and it was proved additional or unnecessary insulin was given, the questions should be 1. Is there evidence it was given maliciously, I.e to kill or cause harm and 2. Is there evidence that Lucy Letby administered it? If yes, you've got a case. The prosecution had no other evidence in that she was nearby. Nothing about the staff who had worked with the baby before, Nothing about those who were on the ward at the time.
Does not seem a safe conviction...mostly circumstantial evidence, flawed scientific evidence, continuing deaths in the same ward after she left....I have less faith in the NHS and uks judicial system than I do in this conviction given the flaws and poor systemic handling of this case from the first moment.
Circumstances all put together point towards her, on duty for all those deaths, and attempted murders. She’s guilty, simply couldn’t face her sentence, callous coward.
What is shocking is how the management refused to take the concerns of the clinicians who are more experienced . The management should be held to account
Yep. I don't understand how management has so much power over actual doctors and consultants who are trained in the field. I think management in the NHS should take the same oath doctors do because according to the hospital hierarchy, they are actually above the doctors and nurses. In this case the top managers were doctors but once you are in the position your incentives will change. Either way there were warning signs, when she was on duty there were more deaths that in itself warrants looking into.
Possibly because she appeared to be calm on that 1 minute video, and it plays into the narrative that she's a cold hearted killer. They'll only show what feeds the baying crowd
Initially the police were investigating 17 deaths, so what happened to the other ten? Who murdered them, or was there another cause? What about later years when Ms. Letby wasn't there? Who was on shift for the other ten deaths? Which doctors were on shift? Did Ms Letby cover more shifts than other nurses as she was single and lived nearby. The seven 'murders' have been cherry picked from a much wider range of events and deaths.
Someone mentioned there where trouble with the hospital drains, in regards to issues with bacteria etc, i really hope this jury got it right, not long ago that man was just released after serving 17 innocent years behind bars, so it can happen, if it is her she should own up now, whats she got to loose, nothing at all, shes going down forever
@@MeganosnostraWhat about the Dutch nurse which mirrored this case & was later exonerated? Just because one's found guilty doesn't mean that's the end. I have grave misgivings about this whole kangaroo style court system it appeared to be.
You bring up a good point, a hospital in Massachusetts called Brighams and women , not long ago found out the water filter on the surgery floor killed three patients. They had reduced the chlorine level in the ice machines, and that allowed a deadly bacteria to flourish.
Lucy isn't a serial killer, the babies died because of systematic failures in this ward, several reports went into detail, Neonatal unit downgraded and then demolished, she is a scapegoat. The truth will come out, many professionals now involved and setting up their own investigation. Doesn't fit the profile, no motive, circumstantial evidence only made to fit to charge and convict to cover up the NHS failings, lots of evidence and reports were disallowed by the judge at the trial, it will all come out. If her appeal is denied, it won't go away, this isn't the first miscarriage of Justice in the UK.
And at the time they didn’t know she was a murderer they only had suspicions. Listen to his police language and mentality. In their eyes everybody is guilty and if you’re not they are happy to try and fit you up.
@@Liitebulb the prosecution doesn’t have to establish and prove a motive. Clearly the evidence was strong enough for the jury to convict. I thought the evidence against her was compelling
This poor management problem is not just restricted to the NHS, it seems to be widespread - i.e. management not listening to, or taking seriously the concerns or suggestions of their staff. It seems to be particularly a problem in public institutions - businesses that don't listen to their staff just go bust eventually, or the shareholders sack the management. Whistleblowers need much more protection and, better still, just be taken seriously and respected for their courage in coming forward.
I understand your point but I do feel I need to stress the difference between public and private sector. The public sector services are paid for by the people and these services are massively corrupt, to top it off these nurses are marching demanding more money and while they are marching their already inadequate care is getting neglected completely. They don’t deserve more money because the nhs is a shambles and the care you receive is horrific, this isn’t just because of lack of funding. The nhs has never had more money at its disposal, the quality of care is down to the unprofessional attitude of the staff.
Well there is a witness to one criminal thing that she did: doctor found her just watching as baby’s Oxygen level dropped with the endoctracheal tube left OBVIOUSLY DISCONNECTED.
There was no actual evidence , no autopsy , no blood tests ..yet she was convicted by association ..only she knows if she is guilty ..she was not convicted on all 22 counts . I feel for the parents but I think a conviction can only be done if there is irrefutable , overwhelming evidence to convict ..
@@joebish6629 the barrister who was on earlier raised some very valid points , pinpointing to other very similar cases where they were later had their convictions over turned , his one point was , were investigations done into incidents that may have occurred when she was not on duty ..it does not seem this was done . The jurors can only go on what they are shown and I agree due to a lack of data and evidence in this area is implied guilty by association .. She may not be able to appeal for 30 years .. We have to question the process pre trial esp in these types of cases , historically how many of these identical cases had their convictions upheld after appeal and how many had their convictions overturned ..
Lucy Letby herself accepted that in two of the cases, the levels of insulin had been tampered with. She just denied it was her. That is crucial for me. There is direct evidence of foul-play which then adds significant weight to the incredible statistical pattern of Letby being on shift when so many bad things occurred.
There really is no proof she is guilty of such crimes. I really do think she is going to appeal could this be another miscarriage of justice only time will tell?.
Why does Ian Collins use dramatic statements of "industrial scale serial killing" ? Where is the basis for that coming from? Liverpool and Chester neonatal, unless the stats are wrong, had "normal" or consistent mortality rates per year, of around 5 in Liverpool and around 3 per year in Chester ? There was the spike to over double in Chester in 15/16. So is one person responsible just for an average rate, which is line more or less with national averages ? What is this "industrial scale" based on ?
Because the very premature babies were not murdered. All recorded as natural deaths. In fact the number of deaths INCREASED AFTER she was no longer on the ward. The public has been misled by these “journalists” and former police.
She WILL appeal! A person like that ends up believing their lies. The Management that dealt with this need to be dismissed. Just an aside. The woman in the mug shot is the REAL woman. Her makeup and smiles cover it up.
You are right, its called the banality of evil, the fact that these freaks seem so ordinary and inadequate. Look at the green river killer, you would not even notice him in a room of three people, because they are nobodies!
The 2016 CQC Inspection Report indicates there were problems on the Neonatal Ward at the CoCH. Tape recorder seen being used during patient hand-overs on the Ward Page 113 of the report had noted. Where are the tape recordings?
If she did it. Id write how i felt repsonsible if a baby died on my shift.why keep a fake diary and not have a diary saying ooh i had an argansm killing the babies todaym why was she doing it? I mwan when you mirder someone you dont go ooh i feel so repsonsible. Lol. You say he had it coming or i enjoyed that or something.
You don't know that. You have no idea what was going through her head, or how she may have been justifying it to her self. Mental illness can manifest its self in as many ways as there are people.
Something dodgy if all the media are convinced. The appeal will come and more information will come out. Guilty or not guilty, this trial was a fucking mess!
If this Evil act goes on in the NHS it won't be the first nor be the last when staff ignore major issues related to the elderly & vulnerable children & babies in the hands of Monsters like Letby why wasn't this case dealt with ages ago, there are times when l think that the NHS have a lot to answer for?
Claiming that it as took 1 month of deliberation means she is more likely to be guilty is ludicrous. If the evidence was so overwhelming they would have found her guilty within a couple of hours.
@@janlittle2148 The point I would make is that "if" the evidence is really that strong, then the media are doing a *very* bad job at showing us what that evidence comprised - because everything that has been highlighted is really easily lacking.
It took so long because they had to reach a unanimous decision. Then one juror was relieved of their duty and the remaining 11 were told they could return a 10-1 verdict instead, and they immediately did exactly that. It took so long because one juror didn't buy it, and nothing the other 11 were saying would convince them. That 12th juror being relieved of their duty is the only reason they aren't still deliberating now. That's grounds for an appeal on its own.
@ songsand poems23 the fact she didn't want to appear for the verdict says everything....if it was me and i was innocent i would be screaming my innocence
It gladdens my heart to see some people on here think she’s innocent, I think this needs appealed I’ve heard professionals on here saying she’s innocent or they aren’t convinced she’s guilty as for the hero doctor with no tears I don’t buy him either😮
@@cyberleaderandy1respectfully, people have every right to question a justice and police system that governs us all. Of course people will accept she is guilty if better evidence is put forward, such as forged documents linking to her, cctv, clear evidence of malicious harm (as was proved with diamorphine in the Shipman case) trouble is we have a shift rota, a distressed post it note, some hand over sheets and -shock!- a nurse being near a patient. Question is, would you accept an overturned conviction if exonerating evidence was brought forward?
(In an alternate universe where she did appear at the final verdict hearing) "She was already found guilty of other crimes. The only reason she attended the final hearing was because she enjoyed the attention!" (probably said by some moron with the same IQ as you)
@@melgrant7404she will. It is all circumstantial evidence & she says she's innocent. Why wouldn't she? I don't blame her for not wanting to turn up when everyone is baying for her without a shred of real evidence & all hear say.
With babys' lives at stake. Born every day there, was incumbent on police to realise babies were dependent on essential "swift" police data of investigation i.e. close in on Letby with absolute urgency. eg. Hidden cameras & monitored would have been helpful. Would have caught her in the act in time. Or demand she be taken off ward. Would be interesting to know what police did or did not do at this crirical point. They had been given enough data by consultants. Or did Police delay with critical required "action"? Imortant to know.
It is worth flipping this over and working it through from Ms Letby's position. If she is innocent then we ought to be wondering why these others were making allegations about her? Consider the wickedness and evil that has gone on to fit her up if she is innocent. Now she has been found guilty of some murder charges, not guilty of other charges, and there were no verdicts reached on yet more. There were 22 charges in total. That high number of charges all dished up at once should bother you. The intent is to throw as much mud as possible in order to trick the jury into thinking the defendant must be guilty. There is a lot to study about how the police and CPS go about case building and how trials are run. It is not something to gloss over and assume that it is all fair and above board. Not least because case building is ONLY what the police and CPS do. They are not in any way interested in finding whoever they have put in the frame not guilty. Even to the extent of them actively cheating and hiding exculpatory evidence. Look up what they did to Liam Allan. Look up what they did to Andy Malkinson. Look up what they did to Mark Pearson. The police and CPS are not meant to hide or alter evidence, yet in all those cases and in many others that is exactly what they did. So if Ms Letby is innocent then the best of luck to her in getting the injustice overturned. It will not be easy. The whole system is stacked so that appeals are not granted and when they are the appeals are stacked to be as prejudicial as possible to the convicted defendant. The courts don't like to admit that the system has any flaws and that innocent people can and do get mistreated, wrongly and maliciously prosecuted, and wrongly convicted. But if Ms Letby is innocent and is ultimately cleared the sooner it comes the better all around.
Anyone else think she probably killed more than just 7? She worked there from 2012-2016. Are you telling me she just randomly decided to start her killing spree in 2015?...
I never consider anyone guilty until after the appeal. The media's coverage of this case is very odd. Because of reporting restrictions, none of us have heard in all detail the defence's arguments. Yet now the entire MSM is condemning her as manifestly guilty. What will they say when her conviction is overturned by the appeal court?
@@adambattersby8934been found guilty by a mysteriously reduced jury based on solely circumstantial evidence, none of which actually shows she could have even been responsible. It just places her there. At her place of work. Just like many others.
Yeah. A spreadsheet that shows for 25 incidents of babies being harmed Lucy Letby was the only person on shift for every single one of them against others who may have be 3, 5 but never more than 7 times. That by itself isn't damning but with the over 13k of lines or pages, I don't remember, of transcripts of interviews, the notes she stole and kept, the fact she kept reaching out the parents and hovered over them. Like no one wants to see an innocent person go down and the jury did find her not guilty of certain offenses because the evidence wasn't strong enough but on those counts they were sure, after over a month of deliberation, that she was guilty. They didn't trip and fall on that conclusion, and it wasn't like one person agreed. A trial by your peers is what you deserve and that's what she got and they found her guilty.
Details of all deaths and unexpected, unexplained or suspicious occurrences throughout the medical profession should be recorded in a national database, along with the names of those on duty at the time. A relatively simple computer algorithm would identify the kind of pattern we see in this case (whereby Letby was present for every single death/incident) likely much sooner than the suspicions of co-workers are aroused and/or acted upon. This system would also flag up death/incident rates that were significantly higher than the norm, and have the added benefit of effectively tracking medical workers across different medical establishments. As soon as pre-determined threshold is reached, this should trigger an immediate, independent investigation. This method would reduce the dependency on co-workers to notice and subsequently air their suspicions, and take the decision to investigate out of the hands of executives. Were it a legal obligation to supply all this information (and had the technology been available at that time) then Harold Shipman's crimes would have been discovered much, much earlier.
I rember the judge for the Guildford 4 saying he would have no hesitation in hanging these men same for the Birmingham 6 all spent 16 years in prison abused kicked punched and they were innocent the police should’ve been tried but they were all decorated,please god this doesn’t happen to Lucy Letby 🌹
Keep looking at her face… she is so far removed from our image of an archetypal serial killer. Thank god those consultants didn’t give up! My children have just passed their Alevels and are off to university. The opportunities and experiences those little babies and their parents should have enjoyed😞. It makes me feel physically sick with how precarious life is. It’s just so profoundly unfair that they came in contact with Lucy Letby.
I bet if you seen my black face you wouldnt say that and I truly would not hurt a fly. She is just a blonde haired average looking woman. A serial killer could becanyone as how the brain works does not always translate to how soneone 'looks' on the outside.
We don't know enough of the trial and its proceedings to say for sure. But poor representation may be one of them. If I was looking at a whole life order for killing babies, I'd want more than a plumber called for the defence!
I agree with you on jury selection. I have known of people who have been called several times to jury service who were ‘backward’ or educationally subnormal or whatever the PC description is these days.
As an educated person, I certainly would have laughed at the prosecution's description of the note found at Letby's home as a "confession". It was clearly no such thing.
@@AndyT-np8mm something really odd about this case. im leaning more towards she did it but intuition tells me there is more than meets the eye, maybe even more than one person doing this.
I have been listening to the DM trial podcast and believe she is guilty due to all of the baby collapses were originally at night when Letby was then moved to daytime shifts. The collapses started in the day, and there were no issues when she was on holiday for a week within 42 hours of her being back from holiday 2 babies' collapses happened. Also when you listen to what was said in the trial she always saying the other person is lying -e.g doctors, nurses and parents, if all these people are saying different things why would everyone be out to get one person and apparently she is the only one telling the truth??
If she appeals she's gonna have to look for a different legal team, her KC didn't even have anything to say in mitigation not that there was any mitigation, quite obvious even her own legal team could see she was guilty.
That was very convincing research into this case. And we know for a fact that the environment in many NHS hospitals is a breeding ground for pathogens and superbugs. Heaven help the premature baby or patients recovering from surgery who pick-up infections ALL THE TIME in hospitals in the UK. Why else did the death rate rise AGAIN in the years AFTER the nurse was off the ward?
Why did the parent who claimed to have witnessed her trying to kill their newborn not call the police? It's almost as if it never actually happened that way.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Management concerned need to be held accountable for gross negligence at very least.
Totally agree they should be made an example of totally negligent.
They made an announcement one of the managers has been suspended. I was surprised it was a woman, I automatically thought they were men.
They need to be in prison
Definitely
Sadly management will likely have liability insurance - police should step in and charge them with aiding and abetting as a wake up call, and if they aren’t considering this they should be…you would get rapid change to NHS culture, procedure and policy then without the mega expense and money wasting.
It’s called dealing with it.
The Head of this Trust should go with all those who ignored reports, that includes the whole of HR
I want to hear their explanation.
they dont care
True
the most frustrating thing, and why these events occur , is that these people have never been brought in front of a judge and have to explain their reasoning at the time. They will learn nothing
Over an extended period of time, in an NHS hospital not far from me, 456 patients were murdered by staff. Nineteen suspects were identified in relation to the killings. No action was ever taken, of course, as the victims were all elderly and simply didn't matter!
Managers NEED to go to jail . Justice needs to be done.
And you believe the consultants who of course never lie. Its odd they never said anything to the Coroner about their suspicions when the babies were found to have died from natural causes.
If the managers go to gaol the doctors go as well they are lying
I agree, us nurses have to answer to the Nursing and Midwifery council (NMC) and pay for our license every year. The doctors have to answer to the General Medical Council (GMC) and pay them, they judge our practice against a code of conduct,they allow us to have a licence to work and we are accountable to them. Nurses and doctors have to have indemnity insurance to practice, I think managers who work in the NHS should also be governed by a professional body and be accountable to them .
Come on, she NEVER wrote that *she was responsible for these murders*.
Lets hope this doesn't turn into a massive miscarriage of justice like Sally Clark and the other mums put in prison accused of murdering their children when these children in fact died because of cot death.
I remember listening to people talk about these women at the time. Sounds just like you talking now!
Please follow the case more carefully.
The evidence was that she was working matching shifts as the deceased? Doesn't seem to remove all doubt of guilt.
However, there were other deaths under similar circumstances when she was and was not on shift. Try "following the case more carefully"!
She wrote that she killed them on purpose.
@@ceo.collinsThere were 25 incidents where she was present for every single one and the most another nurse was there was 7. So what? There are 3 killer nurses and Letby is a victim?
Circumstantial evidence only, no motive, no admission of guilt apart from cherry picked handwritten notes that also states the opposite. Something strange is going on. I don't know if she did it or not, but I cant see the proof she did it 100% other than circumstantial evidence. There is a bad smell around all this, i dont buy it
This lady is a Caucasian blue-eyed blond, totally in utterly trustworthy with the highest degree awarded in her field, she’s calm, intelligent and deals with a situation with the upmost professionalism. I too agree with your views, my view, the doctors ganged up on her.
I feel very uneasy about all this. Where is any real proof? There is something strange going on. Don't like that something she wrote in distress has convicted her.
@@Lemontea-y71that’s not the only evidence used though, she was witnessed being the only one present when a baby’s breathing tube was dislodged, she is the only staff member who was present EVERY single time something unexpected and untoward happened to a baby, the deaths also stopped after she left the trust.
@@jonjones6583I hope this is satirical.
I totally agree with you, it certainly is not without reasonable doubt. I think she has been the fall guy for a much deeper issue involving doctors and other staff, giving sub standard care. Better that 1 goes down rather than the whole ship??
If I was guilty I would have quit when doctors were insinuating that I had done it. But instead she demanded an apology and stayed employed at the hospital. That makes me think she might not be guilty. The evidence was all circumstantial.
It just means she's a narcissist who cannot see any fault in herself or her actions & enjoys playing the victim.
@@leen1q84Not sure about this.....once accusations where being thrown even someone showing narcissism must have know she was going to be xaught out
@@lisachrister9990 I agree with you but the thing with narcissists is that they don't see their actions as being wrong, therefore she was probably feeling confident that she could turn it back on them & she managed to do just that for a while. I think this is why she got her parents to threaten to report the doctors to the GMC & demanded that they apologize to her. So in effect, she succeeded in making herself out to be a victim & this is why a lot of people are fooled by narcissists as they are highly manipulative.
@@leen1q84 People should avoid making psychiatric diagnoses that they're not qualified to make, unless of course you are actually qualified.
@@adrianh332 go & say that to the thousands of other comments on here saying exactly the same thing, including qualified psychiatrists & narcissists themselves.
Just goes to prove that management without medical qualifications in health facilities, needs to be looked at. Why would such unqualified managers ignore, or even worse turn against their own clinicians opinions?
Totally agree with you
Management in any for of industry needs to have qualifications in that industry, tbh. So many don't, do business and finance degrees and think that they know how an industry works.... smh
Two senior nurses and an ex orthopaedic surgeon - just refused to believe it and wanted to save the reputation of the hospital.
Over an extended period of time, in an NHS hospital not far from me, 456 patients were murdered by staff. Nineteen suspects were identified in relation to the killings. No action was ever taken, of course, as the victims were all elderly and simply didn't matter!
I have worked in the NHS and I have a non-medical qualifications. That's a gross oversimplification. I have seen situations where clinical staff want to bypass and force certain things through without proper due care. It goes both ways. The real problem is the NHS culture itself.
Sadly the NHS do not attract capable people. The few who I have come across that are excellent at what they do, they do not stay in the NHS for long as soon as a job opens up in the private sector, and therefore the NHS ends up with 'leftovers'.
This is how you end up with lesser skilled managers who are in positions of power looking out for themselves and are more often than not playing power games and trying to secure their legacy, and in turn they hire people to bolster their power base ie. politicians.
These people then dictate the culture and that gets filtered down. That is the real issue.
Why wasn't this picked up earlier Well, I shall tell you - as far as the NHS Trust Higher management is concerned the priority is to prevent/cover up any potential bad publicity in addition all the hype about encouraging whistle blowers well, whistle blowers are treated with contempt and they know it therefore, tend to keep quite, whistle blowers also identify problems and these problems will ultimately result in bad publicity !
49 years unbroken service as a Registered NHS Nurse, by the way!
49 years you tell us how they behave and you've lasted 49 years
Speaks volumes
I'm curious why you haven't been in the offices kicking off? Forming protest groups? In the press whistle blowing your self? A quiet life maybe? Not your place?
IF the babies were indeed murdered (and there is no proof they were - autopsy found natural causes) then the ward was a crime scence. So why weren't the doctors investigated as suspects? Why were they allowed to guide the investigation?
There IS proof they were murdered and the babies STOPPED dying as soon as she was moved Among a ton of other evidence against her Get a grip
Ok but where did the synthetic insulin and air bubbles come from? They also found her private notes at home and in her journal/diary as well as stolen records. I believe they're deliberately not revealing all the causes of death so other killers don't get inspiration
@@JoTracy
You need to understand regression to the mean.
@@Liitebulb
No synthetic insulin, this is misinfomation.
If the only outlier was Lucy and she was responsible for it all why was the hospital downgraded from a level 2 to level 1 care hospital at the same time she was removed from the ward? If she was the only problem why did they need to reduce the level of care to babies born over 32 weeks? That doesn’t make sense
Exactly.
I don't know about the down grade within the ward, but all of the baby collapses were originally at night when Letby was then moved to daytime shifts. The collapses started in the day, and there were no issues when she was on holiday for a week within 42 hours of her being back from holiday 2 babies' collapses happened.
May have been directed to by the even higher ups. Delia Morris
Jury under massive pressure to find her guilty when all family’s are in court. Also they were NOT told to NOT read media reports.
One juror quit after 9 months and 2 weeks deliberation which would have made it a mistrial. The jury could not agree and couldn’t decide on 6 charges which completely contradicts the other guilty charges.
And who were the jurors on such a high profile case it’s well known the police infiltrate jury’s on big cases another aspect of judiciary corruption never made public.
The police made sure they fed the media damning stories about her for years and even referred to her as killer nurse before she was found guilty. That proves police and media work together just like they did with Birmingham 6 and Hillsborough.
This case stinks to high heaven. Our police forces are corrupt AF and riddled with bent coppers
One thing was that was absolutely certain about this, is that after her being found guilty, the conspiracy theory idiots would be out in force. Weeks of evidence, all of it heard by the jury and not by you, then weeks of the jury deliberating, but no, idiots know better
Absolutely agree with you
Delusional.
"Yes your Honour, she killed all those kids, dead to rights, but because we couldn't decide on 6 counts you'd better let her walk free"
Wake up and educate yourself. You sound like a complete tool
The above interview with the hack and the ex cop is a classic example of what you're pointing to.
No hard evidence.
All circumstantial.
Lots of groundless speculation.
No proper challenge to the prosecution's medical expert opinion evidence.
Heavy reliance on statistics relating to work patterns and deaths. Professor Sir Roy Meadows springs to mind.
The conditions are ripe for miscarriage of justice.
@@georgemorrison4064seems that way!
Why not have cctv on the wards?
Disgusting there isn’t
Because the public will complain about privacy rights, big brother and government intrusion. I was involved some years ago in a social services system that would help keep children safe, didn't happen because of public outcry, it would have been fantastic.
@@nathanwilliams9176 I see your point clearly, but this would have saved several babies' lives. If we think it reasonable to have cctv in shops to protect against steaks being stolen, surely the most vulnerable babies imaginable are worth more than a few commodities. Maybe humanity should start thinking outside the box on this one, IMHO only.
think cctv in these types of units is a sensible thing surely....not in adult wards but in babies wards surely
exactly they have them everywhere ELSE!!!!
I have the horrible feeling she is not the one to be locked up knowing the culture sorrounding the NHS.
She is innocent
She's certainly the ideal scapegoat. They wouldn't have dared to do this with a more vocal person free of self-doubts. They've exploited her personal attributes to the full. She's like one of those people who stood quietly in line for the gas chamber at Auschwitz, resigned to their fate. The prosecution claims to have found copious "notes", only one of which, however, contains anything that comes close to a confession - which though, as any educated person should be able to see, is not actually a confession but rather simply expressions of her anxiety about how she will be perceived by others, in light of the serious accusations.
She was a easy target for the police, who we all know are not to trusted, Murderers Rapist's, Thieves need I say more. 22 people murdered and over 200 badly injured in the 1974 Birmingham pub Bomings , NOBODY CHARGED
oh I forgot 6 MEN CHARGED WHO DIDN'T DO IT.
@@adammartin4366I completely agree with you
@@AndyT-np8mmI couldn't agree with you more. This is a miscarriage of justice
Something does not ring true about all of this.
You are quite right. I spent 14 years examining and building evidence for Court Cases
Point one The Judge himself stated that (by averages) some of the babies brought into neo natal would die.
Second point (I volunteer in A and E) there will be a number of Doctors Consultants other nurses lower grade nurses cleaners in and around that unit over a period of time and someone picks on one?
Completely agree with you
What exactly?
The Insulin point can be explained naturally and NOT BY INJECTION.
@@von-Adlerexplain please
All the Doctors also thought Lucia De Berk was guilty too and they found written notes they used as proof of guilt.
Don't know much about her .. did she say she did it? PURPOSELY as Lucy Letby did?
@@deborahbergman3566 Lucy never said that, it was reported speech. She did say I did nothing wrong.
Exactly @@deborahbergman3566
People need to read the case of a Dutch Nurse who was also found guilty in almost identical circumstances , her name is Lucia De Berk , it was found to be a miscarriage of justice .
Exactly Jon. I'm not convinced she's guilty but then again I'm not convinced she's innocent either.
Nope It was NOT identical circumstances at all
In Lucy's case, there was a lot of other evidence aside from the medical Such as the BADIC fact that babies stopped dying as soon as she was moved
@@JoTracy Read my comment I said almost identical.
Exactly the same here
@adrianh332 This nurse has been made a scapegoat of the grossly bad hospital procedures.
Ask the questions of leaking sewage directly above the cribs. Her notes she took home, were what the tutors said to do. However, this was not stated to tge jury. Made to look like she did this stealthily...
She may be guilty but it is not guilt "beyond reasonable doubt"... People can scream as much as they want but it is not 'beyond reasonable doubt'...
I agree! It's scary
Why do you say that? I’m curious. She was the common denominator in all of these deaths. The jury deliberated for 22 days. Obviously, nobody wanted to believe she did it because she’s very pretty and doesn’t look the part. How can you discredit the doctors and their well-founded suspicions? The facts speak for themselves.
@@chynnadoll3277because it all seems circumstantial
@@chynnadoll3277the reason why people are pointing out that the evidence did not meet the beyond reasonable doubt standard is because it was all circumstantial. No hard evidence that anyone was murdered.
@@chynnadoll3277plus doctors get things wrong all the time and their "suspicions" should not be enough to send someone to prison for a lifetime.
Writing things down is not admission of guilt she also wrote ‘ I didn’t do this, libel, slander , maybe I did this because I’m not good enough’
They cherry picked from her notes
Yes, the notes look like they are written by someone who is very distressed and is writing down her racing thoughts. It doesn’t look like a confession at all!
Howay Jamesc7019 suppose that her own legal team cherry picked evidence and questions, even her own legal team when it came to mitigation they literally said nothing even her defense could see that she was guilty.
She had the murdered baby's medical notes under her bed. Notes detailing how they died. Trophies.
Absolutely agree with you
@@user-od3be8ny4o she also wrote the initials of the babies in her diary who she attacked, along with their dob, dates they were attacked & dates they died & had a colour coded system relating to the crimes.
The babies stopped dying as soon as she was moved
She's GUILTY and she's a monster
That's not accurate
Yes I think so too.
Over an extended period of time, in an NHS hospital not far from me, 456 patients were murdered by staff. Nineteen suspects were identified in relation to the killings. No action was ever taken, of course, as the victims were all elderly and simply didn't matter!
Source???
@@ruthisaurus8004 Gosport War Memorial Hospital, widely reported by MSM. No action taken against the killers!
Happens all the time all over the place. Plenty have spoken out about it. Happened during covid in nursing homes in droves.
Here in greece it happened as well, only investigated because one lady still had family who went to the police. They were killing them and stealing their money. Again, it was a large group of perpetrators.
@@ruthisaurus8004 I think the hospital mentioned may be the Gosport War Memorial Hospital. You can find all the information online. Just type in Dr. Barton. It's ongoing, and being investigated.
The senior management team who dismissed as tittle-tattle the consultant paediatricians expressions of serious concerns about Nurse Letby and told them to go away and stop making a fuss should themselves be dismissed with the loss of all accrued occupational pension along with any other benefits.
In this country people are seldom, if ever held accountable for their gross misconduct regardless of the severity of the consequences of their incompetence.
In this tearful case the Trust's executives prioritised the Hospital's reputation in favour of the safety of the infants with whose welfare they were entrusted.
.....MAN, MAN OH MAN.....
And managers that don’t have the professional and industrial background should never be in the job. Especially when it comes to health care.
Also, just because a person has a relevant degree does not meant that the person has the competence, the knowledge or the right attitude for the job.
@@christinefiedor3518- Exactly. Well said. Im Canada, we now have acvountants, business people, social workers and even an activity worker in charge of facilities!! Like, wtf??!! NONE of that qualifies you to be in charge of patients/residents/staff.
I trained in the NHS and was very proud of is but now keep quiet about that. I trained both in general and paediatric nursing with paediatric my first training. I staffed in surgical neonatal.which is particularly challenging. I believe this is only one of the downfalls of degree training . Entry requirements for student nurses were just as tough if not tougher and didn’t take just anybody. Also the teaching hospital was the college of nursing as well as the employer. Now sadly we seeing more nurses whose hearts are not in it …..it’s just a job to to them. There’s not the same teamwork spirit with comments like “I’m not doing that task. I’ve got a degree” . The traditional system was not broken and when somethings not broken, for gods sake don’t try to fix it.
That said, I now live in Australia, and while not perfect, the standard of care is pretty high.@@paulinegauthier1867
Well if they thought murder had been committed then surely they could've gone straight to their police with their evidence? If I walk in to work and somebody is stabbing the receptionist to death I don't umm and ahh about whether I should call the police in case the boss wants to hush it all up. Somebody needs to take a close look at the consultants - especially the one she was sweet on.
@@paulinegauthier1867 I really never understood this line of reasoning. I don't want a bloody brain surgeon running a hospital and spending his or her time working out if they've ordered enough toilet rolls!!!
This behaviour of gross negligence is ongoing a lot longer than what came to attention of this case
What I don't understand is how they had a fatality rate that went through the roof and they did nothing. Something was going on.
Yep. Some things aren't adding up for me. They're trying to make out that the insulin in the babies was unnatural and therefore obviously a crime had been committed. OK, so why did the consultants wait until 2017 to call in the police if it was that obvious? This "we got palmed off by the manager" nonsense is a red herring - you don't need permission from your boss to report a murder, and the consultants did indeed go to the police directly in 2017. The hospital had external investigations into the 10% increase in deaths but they couldn't find anything conclusive.
Exactly ..there should have been intervention much early on regards high mortality rate ..as this indicates severe failings ..before fingers were pointed
@@emmaaurelia1041 Though I think the staff knew, like one of the doctors said, he was happy she was on duty the first time. Also, if trust has broken down so badly, move her to a different ward.
How could they knowingly let so many more babies die the whole situation just doesn't add up heartbreaking thinking what the families had to go through
@@PGHEngineerI’d expect they were probably worried about losing their own jobs by kicking up a fuss and managers viewing their fuss as ruining their reputation. Doctors have to think about their livelihood and food on the table for their family
I don't know why, but something doesn't feel right about this in my gut. I don't know any of the evidence. It's just a nagging feeling...
I feel exactly the same. Something just doesn't sit right. I am truly suspicious of the whole thing.
😂 maybe go to the police then with this mystical gut feeling.
Considering she was the ONLY Staff member on duty on EACH occasion a child was attacked, I don't know how you can have doubts.
The evidence was that she was working matching shifts as the deceased? Doesn't seem to remove all doubt of guilt.
@@zazita7333 Use your limited imagination. it creates doubt. there must be no doubt to convict.
She may be innocent. I don't know the truth but this was an extremely shaky conviction. I for one will be donating to her appeal to hopefully get to the truth.
It was so NOT a "shakey" conviction !! It was an extremely thorough investigation and she is CLEARLY guilty Anyone following the case closely knows that
People are making gross assumptions based on msm reports and sm stories and gossip The babies stopped dying as soon as she was moved The terrifying thing I'd, if she hadn't killed so many so frequently, she would have gotten away it
Well done you. Putting the families through all that again, making sure their children's killer remains behind bars.
Top marks.
Wtf??? Are you for real? She stabs a new born in the throat amongst the rest and you plan on donating to her???
@@evesapplebut you are supporting an unsafe verdict that is possibly misleading families to believe their child has been murdered. Do you understand how hard that is to live with? A natural death is difficult enough but a murder is unbearable. People are absolutely correct to question this verdict because if it is wrong it may have caused an unimaginable amount of pain unnecessary to a lot of people and destroyed a young nurse. It will also call into question the safety of police investigation and the judiciary. The facts and science support that this may be an unsafe conviction. Keep an open mind and don't be lead by tabloid headlines.
More money than sense. She will love spending your money.
I don’t know who this guy is but he is so articulate and sharing so much pertinent information in a long form interview fascinating
There should have been cameras on that ward watching Her 🙄
They would have watched everybody.That's why they were not there.
Why is watching everybody bad?
Because you will be called a pervert.@@thealienpredatorfly
100% cannot understand why they didn't do that!!
@@karlydoc A pervert for keeping an eye 9n babies to make sure they're not hurt?
She needs to appeal. This trial is shocking, and scientists have now compiled a WEALTH of scientific evidence that smashes the prosecutions already tenuous case out of the park. A quick glance into the hygiene of this unit, not to mention the competence of some of the staff, straight away raises questions. The fact that the mortality rate dropped when the unit was downgraded to a level 1 and was unable therefore to take any critically ill patients (2017) and then rose again the following year to a higher rate than 2015-16 speaks volumes. How on earth are people just blindly accepting a verdict that is so blatantly misguided? The deaths occurred were of course tragic, and could possibly have been avoided, but based on the evidence it seems unlikely they were the result of one murderous nurse. Please, read up on the science rather than the emotive headlines.
What are you qualifications in dealing with this case?
Regardless of hygiene or any of the other things you have mentioned, their would be absolutely no reason for any baby to have artificial insulin circulating in their blood stream unless it had been given intentionally with intent to harm. Poor hygiene doesn’t lead to babies being overdosed on a medication that should never be in their system to begin with, nor does it cause breathing tubes to just miraculously get dislodged by themself.
@@LMAO2510 I'm not dealing with this case sadly but I am supporting the group that is working to get the conviction over turned. I too believed she was guilty last weekend. Then when the sentence was given, things just didn't sit right with me and I went away and researched HEAVILY. And I suddenly realised all of the strangeness about the case - lack of motive, lack of modus operandi, no history of violent/odd behaviour, normal childhood and everything else that is not only expected but is standard for a serial killer made sense. She wasn't a serial killer and all the evidence, that for some reason best known to the defense team, points towards natural deaths. Read rex vs Lucy if you wish to read scientific peer reviewed facts that explain the deaths from qualified experts. If you still believe she's guilty after that, then that's up to you. I just hope you never find yourself facing a whole life tariff on the grounds of a rota and post it note, but don't worry, if you do, there is a growing group of people who are willing to put forward their own money and time to help you where the system has failed.
@@H20x3 hi head over to rex vs Lucy and scroll down to 'Causes for discordant insulin and c-peptide levels were not revealed to the court by experts' it explains it very succinctly. Even without this perfectly logical explanation, and it was proved additional or unnecessary insulin was given, the questions should be 1. Is there evidence it was given maliciously, I.e to kill or cause harm and 2. Is there evidence that Lucy Letby administered it? If yes, you've got a case. The prosecution had no other evidence in that she was nearby. Nothing about the staff who had worked with the baby before, Nothing about those who were on the ward at the time.
@@DancingAmaya why don’t you go and let the families of the murdered babies know about your findings ?
Why isn't the chief executive an the HR manager of that hospital being charged with aiding and abetting a murder
They'll still get their pension
@@jenniferdown9867 Not if they are in prison ! , the system is so corrupt that senior management are not held to account.
Why commend the police for doing a job they are paid to do, the hospital admin need to be done for negligence.
100% agree , sick of public services being praised for just doing what they are paid to do !.
Does not seem a safe conviction...mostly circumstantial evidence, flawed scientific evidence, continuing deaths in the same ward after she left....I have less faith in the NHS and uks judicial system than I do in this conviction given the flaws and poor systemic handling of this case from the first moment.
You are a monster
Circumstances all put together point towards her, on duty for all those deaths, and attempted murders. She’s guilty, simply couldn’t face her sentence, callous coward.
@@westcoast747exactly, it wasn't just a one off but a series of incidents with the common link being her.
@@leen1q84There were 25. The most another nurse was there was 7.
@@BobbieRae1 exactly. It's too many times to put it down to mere coincidence.
She can appeal all she fucking wants but no judge in the land is going to grant it.
You trust our legal system way too much
@@yorky9585 Nah mate I just trust that even the sickest among us see baby killing as an act worthy of torture and death.
She did not even appear in the dock today , guilty as fuck ! Hope she gets it in the shithouse !
Ok Colombo !
why? Most judges are just as corupt
What is shocking is how the management refused to take the concerns of the clinicians who are more experienced . The management should be held to account
Yep. I don't understand how management has so much power over actual doctors and consultants who are trained in the field. I think management in the NHS should take the same oath doctors do because according to the hospital hierarchy, they are actually above the doctors and nurses. In this case the top managers were doctors but once you are in the position your incentives will change. Either way there were warning signs, when she was on duty there were more deaths that in itself warrants looking into.
Why do they keep showing Letby being arrested in 2018??? As written on the date stamp. . .Why not later as when it happened?
Possibly because she appeared to be calm on that 1 minute video, and it plays into the narrative that she's a cold hearted killer. They'll only show what feeds the baying crowd
@@annazrelli4954because she is a cold hearted killer
So many people with 20/20 hindsight.
think the doctors didn't need hindsight...they warned the management who turned a blind eye and who are now lying through their back teeth
Initially the police were investigating 17 deaths, so what happened to the other ten? Who murdered them, or was there another cause? What about later years when Ms. Letby wasn't there? Who was on shift for the other ten deaths? Which doctors were on shift? Did Ms Letby cover more shifts than other nurses as she was single and lived nearby. The seven 'murders' have been cherry picked from a much wider range of events and deaths.
Someone mentioned there where trouble with the hospital drains, in regards to issues with bacteria etc, i really hope this jury got it right, not long ago that man was just released after serving 17 innocent years behind bars, so it can happen, if it is her she should own up now, whats she got to loose, nothing at all, shes going down forever
She was found guilty. That's the end of Lucy Letby.
@@MeganosnostraWhat about the Dutch nurse which mirrored this case & was later exonerated? Just because one's found guilty doesn't mean that's the end. I have grave misgivings about this whole kangaroo style court system it appeared to be.
If I was a nurse I would demand CCTV, because from now on any unexplained deaths means a nurse would be suspected
@@shazanali692 but your not a nurse so don't worry 😂
You bring up a good point, a hospital in Massachusetts called Brighams and women , not long ago found out the water filter on the surgery floor killed three patients. They had reduced the chlorine level in the ice machines, and that allowed a deadly bacteria to flourish.
Lucy isn't a serial killer, the babies died because of systematic failures in this ward, several reports went into detail, Neonatal unit downgraded and then demolished, she is a scapegoat. The truth will come out, many professionals now involved and setting up their own investigation. Doesn't fit the profile, no motive, circumstantial evidence only made to fit to charge and convict to cover up the NHS failings, lots of evidence and reports were disallowed by the judge at the trial, it will all come out. If her appeal is denied, it won't go away, this isn't the first miscarriage of Justice in the UK.
And at the time they didn’t know she was a murderer they only had suspicions. Listen to his police language and mentality. In their eyes everybody is guilty and if you’re not they are happy to try and fit you up.
No way she did this.
She's had an appallingly lack luster/poor defence.
Don't no weather she's guilty or not but I would say when she left why didn't the deaths stop ?
This is what I find odd
The deaths did stop after she was removed from the ward
@@chloemoon6255no they did not shows u didn’t read the proof .
@@FrancisDietPodcast well that’s what the Cheshire police evidence says. So I don’t know what you’re looking at.
whether*
Please watch Norman Fenton interviews Dr Scott McLachan on concerns about the evidence in the Lucy Letby case
Three Death's PRIOR ! So How ? Many Death's All Toll Before Lucy Worked At This Trust ??? ALARM BELL'S RINGING HERE !
'
🎉🎉🎉🎉
That was the average, for a year. After she came onto the ward, there was DOUBLE that number WITHIN A MONTH!
Of course Lucy Letby will appeal as she is innocent.
Why would she appeal the verdict? She quite literally had no defence. She called one witness, a plumber, who added absolutely nothing to her case.
But she didn't have any motive or very much evidence against her either
@@Liitebulb the prosecution doesn’t have to establish and prove a motive. Clearly the evidence was strong enough for the jury to convict. I thought the evidence against her was compelling
Yes, I wondered about the lack of winesses for the defence. No colleagues to speak up for her? I have no doubt of her guilt.
This poor management problem is not just restricted to the NHS, it seems to be widespread - i.e. management not listening to, or taking seriously the concerns or suggestions of their staff. It seems to be particularly a problem in public institutions - businesses that don't listen to their staff just go bust eventually, or the shareholders sack the management. Whistleblowers need much more protection and, better still, just be taken seriously and respected for their courage in coming forward.
I understand your point but I do feel I need to stress the difference between public and private sector. The public sector services are paid for by the people and these services are massively corrupt, to top it off these nurses are marching demanding more money and while they are marching their already inadequate care is getting neglected completely.
They don’t deserve more money because the nhs is a shambles and the care you receive is horrific, this isn’t just because of lack of funding. The nhs has never had more money at its disposal, the quality of care is down to the unprofessional attitude of the staff.
Well there is a witness to one criminal thing that she did: doctor found her just watching as baby’s Oxygen level dropped with the endoctracheal tube left OBVIOUSLY DISCONNECTED.
Allegedly. And if true, why not CALL THE POLICE? if you witness an attempted murder you don't file a report to your boss, you call the police.
Actually you would have to go through your boss. But yes potentially that consultant could be lying.
@@bq1424 lmfao no you would not. You don't file a complaint with your boss when you witness someone trying to KILL SOMEONE. You absolute spanner.
There was no actual evidence , no autopsy , no blood tests ..yet she was convicted by association ..only she knows if she is guilty ..she was not convicted on all 22 counts . I feel for the parents but I think a conviction can only be done if there is irrefutable , overwhelming evidence to convict ..
Agree. The lack of hard evidence is troubling.
@@joebish6629 the barrister who was on earlier raised some very valid points , pinpointing to other very similar cases where they were later had their convictions over turned , his one point was , were investigations done into incidents that may have occurred when she was not on duty ..it does not seem this was done . The jurors can only go on what they are shown and I agree due to a lack of data and evidence in this area is implied guilty by association ..
She may not be able to appeal for 30 years ..
We have to question the process pre trial esp in these types of cases , historically how many of these identical cases had their convictions upheld after appeal and how many had their convictions overturned ..
Lucy Letby herself accepted that in two of the cases, the levels of insulin had been tampered with. She just denied it was her.
That is crucial for me. There is direct evidence of foul-play which then adds significant weight to the incredible statistical pattern of Letby being on shift when so many bad things occurred.
@@maxdecimus13true indeed but still circumstantial
Beyond reasonable doubt
There really is no proof she is guilty of such crimes.
I really do think she is going to appeal could this be another miscarriage of justice only time will tell?.
Well done Cheshire Police 👍🏼
Devil Nurse 👿
I’d be surprised too the evidence is circumstantial.
She should do, I'm not convinced she's guilty tbh.
Why does Ian Collins use dramatic statements of "industrial scale serial killing" ? Where is the basis for that coming from? Liverpool and Chester neonatal, unless the stats are wrong, had "normal" or consistent mortality rates per year, of around 5 in Liverpool and around 3 per year in Chester ? There was the spike to over double in Chester in 15/16. So is one person responsible just for an average rate, which is line more or less with national averages ? What is this "industrial scale" based on ?
Why were no post mortem?
Because the very premature babies were not murdered. All recorded as natural deaths. In fact the number of deaths INCREASED AFTER she was no longer on the ward. The public has been misled by these “journalists” and former police.
She WILL appeal! A person like that ends up believing their lies. The Management that dealt with this need to be dismissed.
Just an aside. The woman in the mug shot is the REAL woman. Her makeup and smiles cover it up.
You are right, its called the banality of evil, the fact that these freaks seem so ordinary and inadequate. Look at the green river killer, you would not even notice him in a room of three people, because they are nobodies!
Should be dismissed no Should be in a cell next to her for assisting or allowing her killing spree to continue after concerns were raised about her
Or perhaps she will appeal if she isn't guilty.
On what grounds will she appeal?
All I can think is SHE will say ''lack of evidence''?@@susanbishop5228
The 2016 CQC Inspection Report indicates there were problems on the Neonatal Ward at the CoCH.
Tape recorder seen being used during patient hand-overs on the Ward Page 113 of the report had noted.
Where are the tape recordings?
Knowing the UK justice system it would not surprise me if she's found not guilty in 20 years time...
I agree, but don't worry you are not alone, the French justice system is not better, it is even worse.
So, who's the serial killer then?
@@Rufan-yy7rn We know that babies died, but I am not 100% sure that they proved that they were killed
@@alimaiche6424 The police, the doctors and the Judge were quite sure though.
@@Rufan-yy7rnand we never had cases in history where they got it wrong
Appeal instead of accepting the punishment for what she’s done 🤬
she was not made to face up to her crimes so it will go on
If she did it. Id write how i felt repsonsible if a baby died on my shift.why keep a fake diary and not have a diary saying ooh i had an argansm killing the babies todaym why was she doing it? I mwan when you mirder someone you dont go ooh i feel so repsonsible. Lol. You say he had it coming or i enjoyed that or something.
@@Padraigp oh she did it
You don't know that. You have no idea what was going through her head, or how she may have been justifying it to her self. Mental illness can manifest its self in as many ways as there are people.
@@andrewturner2354 so play the mental health excuse for killing defenceless children. Literally couldn’t be more defenceless. She is evil.
Why should a Superintendany believe she would appeal BECAUSE THE CASE IS FULL OF HOLES!
Something dodgy if all the media are convinced. The appeal will come and more information will come out. Guilty or not guilty, this trial was a fucking mess!
If this Evil act goes on in the NHS it won't be the first nor be the last when staff ignore major issues related to the elderly & vulnerable children & babies in the hands of Monsters like Letby why wasn't this case dealt with ages ago, there are times when l think that the NHS have a lot to answer for?
Claiming that it as took 1 month of deliberation means she is more likely to be guilty is ludicrous. If the evidence was so overwhelming they would have found her guilty within a couple of hours.
Absolutely, I'm not convinced at all. There is no way that this is a safe conviction, not be piece of firm evidence that she is guilty.
@@Benbenforeverabsolutely. This sits very uncomfortable & not just with me I'm sure.
They looked over each individual case thoroughly or are you saying they were corrupt? I think their view is more reliable than your feelings.
@@janlittle2148 The point I would make is that "if" the evidence is really that strong, then the media are doing a *very* bad job at showing us what that evidence comprised - because everything that has been highlighted is really easily lacking.
It took so long because they had to reach a unanimous decision. Then one juror was relieved of their duty and the remaining 11 were told they could return a 10-1 verdict instead, and they immediately did exactly that. It took so long because one juror didn't buy it, and nothing the other 11 were saying would convince them. That 12th juror being relieved of their duty is the only reason they aren't still deliberating now. That's grounds for an appeal on its own.
You know someone at work is killing babies, at what point do you call the cops? I don't understand why they didn't.
There should be cctv in every areas in all hospitals..circumstantual evidance....
Including changing rooms?
@@owendavies9141 hardly
@@simonedury3430 well you did say every area 🧐🙄🙄🙄🙄
@@owendavies9141 in the wards
If she was innocent why didn't she protest more when she was arrested? She's guilty! What an evil thing...may she rot in jail🇨🇦
why does it matter? @@hopeisthething1965
@ songsand poems23 the fact she didn't want to appear for the verdict says everything....if it was me and i was innocent i would be screaming my innocence
exactly
@@paulrichards6894 People react to things in different ways. I find the lack of hard evidence troubling.
@@joebish6629 there were 25 major incidents....the most other doctors were there was 6....she was there for all 25
My heart goes out to the parents🙏🏽
She had started attacking babies before the boyfriend Dr arrived on the scene
It gladdens my heart to see some people on here think she’s innocent, I think this needs appealed I’ve heard professionals on here saying she’s innocent or they aren’t convinced she’s guilty as for the hero doctor with no tears I don’t buy him either😮
I'm very suspicious of the TV personality doctor. He had a hell of a lot to lose
And when shes proven at appeal to be guilty again will you be appologising to everyone or still say this murderer is innocent?
@@cyberleaderandy1to be honest il be apologising to nobody, there’s been plenty of miscarriages of justice ,so time will tell
@@cyberleaderandy1respectfully, people have every right to question a justice and police system that governs us all. Of course people will accept she is guilty if better evidence is put forward, such as forged documents linking to her, cctv, clear evidence of malicious harm (as was proved with diamorphine in the Shipman case) trouble is we have a shift rota, a distressed post it note, some hand over sheets and -shock!- a nurse being near a patient.
Question is, would you accept an overturned conviction if exonerating evidence was brought forward?
@@RC-gh7osthere is much more than that if you read the transcripts.
Bring back matron, this would soon stop.
She aint appealing, didnt even have the bottle to appear at the verdict hearing
Shes guilty as sin
Yes she won't appeal.
(In an alternate universe where she did appear at the final verdict hearing) "She was already found guilty of other crimes. The only reason she attended the final hearing was because she enjoyed the attention!" (probably said by some moron with the same IQ as you)
@@melgrant7404she will. It is all circumstantial evidence & she says she's innocent. Why wouldn't she? I don't blame her for not wanting to turn up when everyone is baying for her without a shred of real evidence & all hear say.
Won't appeal! 🤣🤣🤣 you are a mōron to believe that.
@@sithvsjedi9696 it's likely she would appeal just for the sake of it but other than that
Who ypu calling a moron, toxic people everywhere lol
With babys' lives at stake. Born every day there, was incumbent on police to realise babies were dependent on essential "swift" police data of investigation i.e. close in on Letby with absolute urgency. eg. Hidden cameras & monitored would have been helpful. Would have caught her in the act in time. Or demand she be taken off ward. Would be interesting to know what police did or did not do at this crirical point. They had been given enough data by consultants. Or did Police delay with critical required "action"? Imortant to know.
Agreed. They should've gone with the hidden cameras just to nail her down & remove all doubt.
There is a video on the police onvestigation called operation hummingbird I believe.
Why was she allowed to not appear to hear the charges?? its ridiculous, her human rights stopped the day she killed the first baby.
Innocent until proven guilty
Do you have evidence that she killed the baby?
@@jenjones90 she was proven guilty
she has been proven guilty@@jankowalski6338
@@jenjones90 This must have been posted while drunk.
It is worth flipping this over and working it through from Ms Letby's position. If she is innocent then we ought to be wondering why these others were making allegations about her? Consider the wickedness and evil that has gone on to fit her up if she is innocent.
Now she has been found guilty of some murder charges, not guilty of other charges, and there were no verdicts reached on yet more. There were 22 charges in total. That high number of charges all dished up at once should bother you. The intent is to throw as much mud as possible in order to trick the jury into thinking the defendant must be guilty.
There is a lot to study about how the police and CPS go about case building and how trials are run. It is not something to gloss over and assume that it is all fair and above board. Not least because case building is ONLY what the police and CPS do. They are not in any way interested in finding whoever they have put in the frame not guilty. Even to the extent of them actively cheating and hiding exculpatory evidence.
Look up what they did to Liam Allan. Look up what they did to Andy Malkinson. Look up what they did to Mark Pearson. The police and CPS are not meant to hide or alter evidence, yet in all those cases and in many others that is exactly what they did.
So if Ms Letby is innocent then the best of luck to her in getting the injustice overturned. It will not be easy. The whole system is stacked so that appeals are not granted and when they are the appeals are stacked to be as prejudicial as possible to the convicted defendant. The courts don't like to admit that the system has any flaws and that innocent people can and do get mistreated, wrongly and maliciously prosecuted, and wrongly convicted. But if Ms Letby is innocent and is ultimately cleared the sooner it comes the better all around.
Put Lucy Letby in the lions denn
She will have her time... only it wont be in prison.. it will be somewhere far HOTTER... called hell
This is what happens when medical ethics come up against NHS management.
Why didn’t the doctors go to the police themselves if they were so concerned?
They were afraid for their jobs threatened with termination. How hard is it to understand?
Could be the police are busy arresting women praying silently outside abortion clinics where about 200,000 babies are killed every year in the UK.
Someone should check the hospital's hygiene(water issues)etc!!!
If only she'd opted to nurse the abortion theatre, she'd have had a successful career.
Duuuuude that’s so dark.., and I’m here for it
@@Striker885No they don’t. Get a grip, FFS.
Who cares about your anti abortion feelings. That has nothing ro do with it
@@janlittle2148 I was just saying, hahaha!
Doctors sat next to Nurse who has NOW been convicted of killing babies
Anyone else think she probably killed more than just 7? She worked there from 2012-2016. Are you telling me she just randomly decided to start her killing spree in 2015?...
It was only between 2015 and 2016 that there was an increase in unexplained baby deaths.
She only was fully qualified in 2015 to work with prem babies.
Why does he say that?
I never consider anyone guilty until after the appeal. The media's coverage of this case is very odd. Because of reporting restrictions, none of us have heard in all detail the defence's arguments. Yet now the entire MSM is condemning her as manifestly guilty. What will they say when her conviction is overturned by the appeal court?
They're condemning her as guilty because she's been found guilty. It's not rocket science.
The normal procedure is to say that someone has been found guilty but is almost certain to appeal.
@@adambattersby8934been found guilty by a mysteriously reduced jury based on solely circumstantial evidence, none of which actually shows she could have even been responsible. It just places her there. At her place of work. Just like many others.
@@mydogeatspuke Her 'diary' notes where she admits to killing the babies are evidence enough surely.
@@TeresaJ-rw3uw she didn't admit to killing babies though. So no, they're not.
Lucy Letby is innocent
Body of ‘ circumstantial evidence’
Yeah. A spreadsheet that shows for 25 incidents of babies being harmed Lucy Letby was the only person on shift for every single one of them against others who may have be 3, 5 but never more than 7 times. That by itself isn't damning but with the over 13k of lines or pages, I don't remember, of transcripts of interviews, the notes she stole and kept, the fact she kept reaching out the parents and hovered over them.
Like no one wants to see an innocent person go down and the jury did find her not guilty of certain offenses because the evidence wasn't strong enough but on those counts they were sure, after over a month of deliberation, that she was guilty. They didn't trip and fall on that conclusion, and it wasn't like one person agreed. A trial by your peers is what you deserve and that's what she got and they found her guilty.
One factor POST CASE the Hospital has ripped out this area AND ALL WATER PIPES.
Details of all deaths and unexpected, unexplained or suspicious occurrences throughout the medical profession should be recorded in a national database, along with the names of those on duty at the time. A relatively simple computer algorithm would identify the kind of pattern we see in this case (whereby Letby was present for every single death/incident) likely much sooner than the suspicions of co-workers are aroused and/or acted upon. This system would also flag up death/incident rates that were significantly higher than the norm, and have the added benefit of effectively tracking medical workers across different medical establishments. As soon as pre-determined threshold is reached, this should trigger an immediate, independent investigation. This method would reduce the dependency on co-workers to notice and subsequently air their suspicions, and take the decision to investigate out of the hands of executives. Were it a legal obligation to supply all this information (and had the technology been available at that time) then Harold Shipman's crimes would have been discovered much, much earlier.
Just goes to show that just because someone is found guilty of a criminal act it doesn’t make it a fact that they actually did it.
I rember the judge for the Guildford 4 saying he would have no hesitation in hanging these men same for the Birmingham 6 all spent 16 years in prison abused kicked punched and they were innocent the police should’ve been tried but they were all decorated,please god this doesn’t happen to Lucy Letby 🌹
What? What? Police took 5 years + to build a case OF NO EVIDENCE lead to Charges and a trial. Ridiculous.
You have to seek leave to appeal
Its not automatic.
This retired police officer is not a lawyer.
Her colleagues had the option of ringing Crimestoppers Anonymously.
Keep looking at her face… she is so far removed from our image of an archetypal serial killer. Thank god those consultants didn’t give up! My children have just passed their Alevels and are off to university. The opportunities and experiences those little babies and their parents should have enjoyed😞. It makes me feel physically sick with how precarious life is. It’s just so profoundly unfair that they came in contact with Lucy Letby.
I bet if you seen my black face you wouldnt say that and I truly would not hurt a fly. She is just a blonde haired average looking woman. A serial killer could becanyone as how the brain works does not always translate to how soneone 'looks' on the outside.
On what grounds would she appeal the verdict or sentence?
We don't know enough of the trial and its proceedings to say for sure.
But poor representation may be one of them. If I was looking at a whole life order for killing babies, I'd want more than a plumber called for the defence!
Zero evidence.
Anyone find it strange how your fate can be decided by a bunch of brainless baboons they pull of the street to make a jury
I agree with you on jury selection. I have known of people who have been called several times to jury service who were ‘backward’ or educationally subnormal or whatever the PC description is these days.
more serious cases should use provably educated people only.
As an educated person, I certainly would have laughed at the prosecution's description of the note found at Letby's home as a "confession". It was clearly no such thing.
Go look at the jury selection process before you make such idiotic comments. Fate had nothing to do with it!
@@AndyT-np8mm something really odd about this case. im leaning more towards she did it but intuition tells me there is more than meets the eye, maybe even more than one person doing this.
I have been listening to the DM trial podcast and believe she is guilty due to all of the baby collapses were originally at night when Letby was then moved to daytime shifts. The collapses started in the day, and there were no issues when she was on holiday for a week within 42 hours of her being back from holiday 2 babies' collapses happened. Also when you listen to what was said in the trial she always saying the other person is lying -e.g doctors, nurses and parents, if all these people are saying different things why would everyone be out to get one person and apparently she is the only one telling the truth??
That daily mail podcast seems to have mislead so many people, try reading the actual court reports.
Guilty as charged. Hope she gets a whole life sentence. Evil beyond evil. To hurt anyone is wrong, to hurt a prem baby is beyond words
not going to let her out surely
@@paulrichards6894 I hope not, surely not!
Rampton I expect
@@sansiveria578 Rampton is a mental hospital, she ain't mad, she's evil
I keep hearing about all this evidence. What evidence?
Do some research
If she appeals she's gonna have to look for a different legal team, her KC didn't even have anything to say in mitigation not that there was any mitigation, quite obvious even her own legal team could see she was guilty.
Statistics- and check the plumbing!! (cf Scott Maclachan versus Dewi Evans, in the Norman Fenton interview)
That was very convincing research into this case.
And we know for a fact that the environment in many NHS hospitals is a breeding ground for pathogens and superbugs. Heaven help the premature baby or patients recovering from surgery who pick-up infections ALL THE TIME in hospitals in the UK.
Why else did the death rate rise AGAIN in the years AFTER the nurse was off the ward?
Why in God's name did the nhs management wait so bloody long.
Why did the parent who claimed to have witnessed her trying to kill their newborn not call the police? It's almost as if it never actually happened that way.