Hydroponic Lettuce Experiment - Comparing Water Soluble Fertilizers
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- I'm doing an experiment to see which water soluble fertilizer works best in a hydroponic setup. This experiment will compare Masterblend, Jacks Triple 20, Base Miracle Grow, and the Miracle Grow Tomato formula.
edit: Jacks does make a lineup of hydroponic fertilizers that would likely be a better option than the triple 20. Here's a link... www.jrpeters.co...
The goal here is to see if it's possible to use the last 3 fertilizers without any additional supplements, and to compare the overall results. It is not intended to discourage the use of either of them, as they all have situations where they could be of benefit. This is simply a side by side experiment to see how well they do at growing lettuce.
I would like to do some further testing with organic water soluble fertilizers for the folks who prefer to grow organic. Thus far, I haven't found anything except liquid. If you know of an organic water soluble fertilizer, please let me know.
/ mhp.gardener
What an inspirational and great open source educator!
Thanks Rob.. 1) For this method, non-circulating, I've mentioned starting at 7.0.. either with good tap water, rain water, or bottled water. Harsh city water or hard well water may need some adjustment. 2) All 4 of these fertilizer mixes have the micronutrients, that's why I agreed to try them. But, they are commercial. I'm getting requests to do an organic test, but I don't know of an organic water soluble fertilizer. The liquids are too expensive.
Great videos!! I have been a soil based gardener for a long time, you've been my top resource in switching to hydro. I don't know if you've noticed but the hydro ferts are Nitrate based, not urea or Ammonia based. Plants need the the urea and ammonia forms to be broken down by microbes and enzymes in the soil into a nitrate form. Obviously there is no soil to do this in hydro, that is why they use only nitrate based ferts. I would love to see a comparison of similar products. Great work!!!
If you know of an organic water soluble fertilizer that I could try, please let me know.
Also, just a reminder, I'll be on prepperbroadcasting tonight talking with Rob, otherwise known as Web4Deb on youtube. The link is in the description box.
If you have a lot of questions, you can send them to mhpgardener@yahoo.com I'll do my best to help you.
Thanks Ben. Right now, with cool temps, the plants don't consume as much water. So the reservoir will be topped off when it's time for a new crop. There is very little water actually discarded from the hydro setups.
Been there, done that ! Sometimes you find a channel that really keeps you interested. Rob's is like that.
It has been worthwhile indeed.This type of side by side is what helps people who are new to hydro not make mistakes. Hats off to you brother!
Thanks. 1)The seedlings were over 3 weeks old, past due for transplanting. 2)Adrianna Butterhead 3)I order from several different sites online..hydro stores and Amazon. 4) Yes, it would work outdoors. I will be doing it later on.
I'll do some measurements in the morning, just to see what's up. I'm trying to find a one shot formula that people can use so they don't have to do any mixing. I'll do more tests and maybe vary the nutrient amounts and see what happens. I think I'll need to start wearing a white coat. :)
Thanks. Do you use the Triple 20, or do you use their hydro fertilizer? My water is right at 7.0, so it's not an issue. I'm sure it varies quite a bit around the country.
For people who only want to grow lettuce and leafy greens, I'm gonna recommend they use something like the Hobby formula 10-8-22. Yes, they have to add epsom salt, but that is readily available. The soil based fertilizers, even though they are water soluble, just aren't gonna do as well. Thank you.
Side by side hydroponic fertilizer comparison! Amazing. This is great.
I just don't see any consistencies with compost tea. The original compost will vary greatly from one person to another depending on what you were using. How would you explain to someone exactly how much to use? Plus, in a non-aerated solution, I think CT could lead to some smelly problems. If I could come up with a precise mixture, it would be worth a try.
The lettuce is good, either in a salad or on a sandwich. How often do you clean your system? I clean my rails and boxes after each crop.
Mph Gardener Thanks for all the time and effort you put in these videos.If i could remember what you forgot about gardening i would be one smart gardener.You help a lot of people and again THANKS A LOT !
In this setup, I'm using rockwool cubes. There is no soil to mess with. Yes, you can wash the dirt off if you have soil grown seedlings. But they will wilt for a few days as they get adjusted.
Watching your videos all afternoon whilst making 'passive hydroponic systems' out of old shoelaces, take-out & protein powder containers, I much admire & appreciate your work to share your passionate efforts with us all. Thank you much & well wishes to you and your family!
I'm not sure. I used MG by itself. I didn't add anything to it in the test and it didn't do so well. Let me know how it turns out.
I think it has to do mostly with the nitrogen. For hydroponics, you need the Ammonia Nitrate, and for soil you need Urea Nitrogen. Do a search for "urea nitrogen vs ammonium nitrate". I have a lot to learn, and the comments are helping a lot.
Yes... this formulation comes premixed at 4-18-38. The Epsom salt provides Magnesium, and the Calcium Nitrate provides the additional Nitrogen and Calcium to bring it up to about a 20-18-38 level.
The 3 components you listed are to get a complete fertilizer with the Masterblend. The other 3 fertilizers are being used "as-is", straight out of the box, so no additional mixing. I mix at a rate of 10 grams per 5 gallon bucket. It takes 5.6 buckets to fill 28 gallons. So, 10 grams per bucket X 5.6 (the # of buckets) = 56.
The 3 components for the Masterblend are not added together for the calculation...just the base ratio of 10g per.
I had been delighted just to look how it is done. even the calculation of food plants fertilizers. thanks again.
Caught the last half of the radio show - outstanding. I hope I remember to tune in for the next one. It's a nice break to get away from this little screen and kick back on the couch with the cat and listen to some interesting stuff. You have a great way of presenting an interview. Thanks.
No, I use rockwool cubes or plain seed starting mix. But I think the netting is supposed to stay on. The roots will grow out with no problem.
Thanks...I looked them up. Sounds like a good one, but it's liquid. I'd like to find a water soluble powder since they are much more concentrated and cheaper to use. Any ideas?
Finally..an easy question ! The cubes are about a dime each, and the seeds are about a penny. Better to discard a few seeds than lose a few cubes. :)
Thank you ! I was asked to try the Triple 20. I just looked it up, and you're right. I didn't know they had hydro formulas too. I learned something today. I'll make a note in the video.
You have a mule and a tractor, both work the garden well. The mule is a part of the self sufficient plan, but the tractor is much easier and faster. Do you park the tractor and do things the hard way? Or do you use it as long as it's available, knowing it might be years before you'd be forced to use the mule? I'm using the tractor and letting the mule rest.
Thanks. The mixing pans are fine, but a bit small. And adding fish is something totally different. I'll be working on that in the next few months.
They all had the traces, but probably a little bit different percentages. I'll try to look a bit closer and see if anything stands out.
If you search 4-18-38, it shows up. I've said before that their site is a little bit hard to navigate. If you want to try any of the other formulations, check with Hydro-Gardens. They have the complete lineup of mixes made for specific plants like tomato, strawberries, lettuce, etc. To keep it simple, I use the tomato and just weaken it down for growing leafy veggies.
Yep, I found out about the urea vs nitrate situation while doing these experiments. The best way to learn is to just go out and do something, then post a video about it. I had a lot of feedback from the viewers and it really helped. Thanks.
It's the fertilizer that is most commonly available. I had a bunch of requests asking if it would work, so I had to find out. Thanks.
I found out about potash several years ago when I was told that my first garden spot used to be a burn pile. Everything grew great, even though I had no idea what I was doing. Thanks Donna. :)
I've checked the PPM of my compost tea. It's about 200, way too low for being the sole source of nutrients for a plant. I just don't see a way to use tea and have any type of consistency.
I didn't know that. This is quite a learning process for me too. I wanted to keep people from wasting their time using the last 3 fertilizers, so I think it's been a worthwhile experiment thus far. Thank you.
You're welcome. I hope it helped.
I agree. No two brews are the same. There would be no way to have any kind of consistency.
I guess I don't understand the difference between water soluble soil fertilizer and water soluble fertilizer. Can you explain or give me a reference to read.
You have probably the best explanatory videos, great stuff. Do you do ph test here or just mix the fertilizer.
Thanks. I've never done much with foliar feeding. Some folks claim it really helps, but I have no experience to say either way.
I used 10 grams per gallon. This was a test for people who wanted to use MG only, without mixing anything else with it. So I didn't add any Epsom salt. It may have helped a little bit, but considering the nitrogen source was Urea, the MG wasn't gonna come close to the hydroponic fertilizer.
Yes mam...most any leafy vegetable will work fine. I did cabbage and it turned out ok, so I don't see any reason the other things won't work.
I'm not sure what to add to it, but it seems like there should be something available I found out that Jacks makes a line of hydro fertilizers that would be better suited for this. So I guess I'll have to give it a try.
With night temps being kept in the 55 degree range, there's not a lot of cooling going on. I've checked the water temps, and they stay about 63-68 right now...perfect for lettuce. That's one good thing about a large reservoir and styrofoam insulation on top ... not much temp fluctuation.
I don't know of anything that you could mix with it. It seems to be doing ok, just a bit slower. Thanks.
I read most of his writings too. Lots of ways to do sub-irrigation and non-circulating hydro. I'm pretty sure the problem is the fertilizer. The urea based Miracle Grow is just taking it's time. I went ahead and cut one of the heads from the Masterblend box today. It was a whole lot bigger.
Look up Hydro-Gardens... they are in Colorado and carry the entire line of MB products. If you want the 4-18-38, Morgan County Seeds has it and they might be closer and cheaper. But for the other formulas, I haven't seen them for sell anywhere else.
I agree, but in my dabbling in hydro, I've found you don't need to dump your reservoir between every batch which actually makes it pretty cheap. All I did was add more nutrient until the reservoir got back up to the original TDS reading and it worked great for 3 batches in a row. My res was oxygenated, though.. it may be different in the still water setup you're using. Good luck brother, I'd still like to make it your way one of these day for the tour.
It there any reason you can't just use a potting mix instead of the cubes in the hydro setup?
You really never want to use anything organic as a growth medium, organics will start to decompose and choke your roots.
LOL..flashback? I used to have shoulder length hair. Now, I can't even fill up a comb ! After learning more about the differences in soil based versus hydro fertilizers, this is making sense. I wanted to do this test since so many folks wanted to know if they could use MG or Triple 20. Yes, they can...but it's gonna be a much slower process. I'll keep working on it.
Do you put in on a heating pad, sitting in water, under grow lights, covered? It's the details that make the difference. I too would like to see a video, if you don't mind doing one.
Yes, it does speed things up by a few days.
As was suggested down below, it could be the difference in Nitrogen..Nitrate vs Urea. The MB is Nitrate based. I think the additional P has a lot to do with it too. Getting off to a fast start makes a huge difference.
I use 1.5 inch rockwool cubes for starting the seeds. Just drop a seed in the hole, and wait. Very easy to do.
Thanks for clearing that up. I could not figure out where that number was coming from, but I knew it had to make sense in the calculation. I love what you are doing with the hyrdoponics. I am anxious to start some of my own.
thanks to you, I will be planting my food this winter, your ideas are so great that I will want to all of my friends try it too.thanks.
Excellent. I just love actually knowing what is marketing and what is real ya know? Doing tests like these almost always proves the most expensive is not the best.
Thanks. The MG will work, but it's a lot slower than a true hydroponic fertilizer. The good thing about water solubles though, is you can buy a large bag and it will last for a very long time. You shouldn't have to add any more fertilizer until you start a new crop.
This is a very easy and productive setup...thanks.
Thank you Paula. The one thing I learn from your videos is that I am always hungry ! LOL
No, I haven't looked at the ph. I was just trying to use equal amounts and see what happened. I'll check the ph tomorrow. Thanks.
Thanks. I did try a sample bottle one time on some plants and it worked pretty good. The liquid nutrients are a lot more expensive in relation to the water solubles that I use, so i didn't pursue it any further.
Thx Katz... I try to fill in all of the blanks.
Bobby, been watching your videos for weeks now and am enjoying them. You are doing a great job. Thank you for your testimony as well. Anway, a couple of questions:
1) I don't hear you talk about the water pH which is important for nutrient uptake.
2) I also don't hear you talk about the other nutrients such as zinc, copper, etc. found in more complete fertilizers.
I know you are keeping things simple, but working on your pH levels and micronutrients isn't all that much extra to digest.
I will check the ph of all 4 boxes tomorrow to see what's going on. I don't sell the Masterblend, but Morgan County Seeds and Hydro-Gardens do.
It will help if you give them a very weak fertilizer feeding..... and the key word is weak...don't over do it. The time for me varies, depending on the weather... it takes longer during the cold months.
Lucky you. Check out the 10-8-22 if you don't want to mix the Cal Nitrate. It only needs the Epsom salt.
I have some new seed due in tomorrow. Soon as I get it, I have to start more lettuce. I'll document what I do.
Thanks Rob. I'm trying to come up with a cut and dry method that anyone could use. Looks like I'll have to do a lot more testing.
I saw your video and went with the master blend. Using a small kiddy pool and just started out yesterday. How often do I feed or add water. Do I need to let the water sit out over night to evaporate the chlorine before adding any more to the kiddy pool?
I might be making it harder than I need to. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, I do too. But usually I don't have the patience to follow thru. I see something going wrong, and I want to try to fix it..rather than letting things play out. :)
Very nice and interesting experiment. Thanks for uploads. May I suggest to expand the test groups to leave bearing, floral bearing and fruit bearing, because all these fertilizers were designed for specific plants.
Thank Larry. I'm learning quite a bit myself.
Thanks Mike. I've heard all about GH...they are very well known. My concern with the liquids is the cost. When you start mixing 25-30 gallons of nutrients at one time, the liquid goes away much faster than the powder. I'll keep trying.
Yea, I have a new crop of lettuce going right now. It sounds like you have 2 1/2 inches of water in yours...correct? I barely have an inch, thats why I have the drip line at each plant.
Thanks, I hope it helped.
Those plants looked great for such a short time. I like the tip on the 2" cups and water. Thanks!
Love your videos. They have really got me motivated. I was using Miracle Grow for Tomatoes then switched to Jacks hydroponic formula for herbs and my lettuce took off fast. Thanks for what you do and God bless.
Hey Bobby, looking good there!! I would bet 50 cents that the Nitrogen in the master-blend is nitrate based vs. urea that MG has. That would account for the much better growth in the master-blend. Keep it up, your an inspiration Man!!
Yes, that should work fine.
I order from a few different hydro stores online, and sometimes Amazon. Most everybody has the 1.5 inch Rockwool cubes.
Hey stranger...been a long time. Ya'll are having a baby? Awesome, and congratulations !
I followed both directions for Masterblend and Miracle. I have only masterblend in my test tubes while germinating tomato and lettuce. I see roots faster with the master blend for both tomato and lettuce. Miracle Grow seems to germinate the seeds slower and when the seedlings get tall they seem to absorbe too much of the Tomato MG's blue solution and die off. I tested these seedlings in 20 test tubes each brand. I have well water which is not treated and its PH is neutral.
It's just a regular butter head variety called Adriana. Most any type of lettuce should do fine.
Yes, they should work just fine.
Cool... I hope the move goes well for you. Thanks.
Hey bud, it might be a good idea to take into account what form(s) the Nitrogen is in for these different fertilizers. Some of these are probably higher in forms of Nitrogen that need to be converted by soil micro organisms before they can be accessible to the plants. I think the Miracle Gro Tomato fertilizer has a higher percentage of Nitrogen that's ready for the plants to use than the Miracle Gro All Purpose fertilizer. This may also be the case with the other fertilizer you mentioned.
If you look up the products online, you should find a PDF or pic of the labels showing the contents.
I think the urea vs nitrate definitely played a role. The plants are still very small in comparison to the Masterblend box. They look nice and green, but the growth is way too slow.
Thank you so much, I am very grateful to see the experimental stuff that you have done. I am looking to start a greenhouse hydroponic system once I move down to GA. I am from CO so it will be a very different planting experience for me. I figured I would be doing these types of testing myself, but again I like to watch your videos of your observations and your personal opinions. Keep up the great work!!
Well, now you're into an area that I know nothing about. But I will offer my opinion. Whether it was a grow bed or some other container, I would size the reservoir so that the plants used about half the water and nutrients in the first few weeks. Then I'd come back and top it off with the 4-18-38 and Epsom salt, leaving out the Calcium Nitrate. This would reduce the N levels, and also allow you to boost the P if needed. I have no idea whether or not it would work, so test it out first.
No, never heard of that method before. Is there anywhere in particular that would have the best info?
An organic water soluble fertilizer is called a tea. It usually involved taking worm casting and adding those to a panty hose like a tea bag. Dunk that in water like a tea bag while adding black strap molasses. Add an air stone and air pump for aeration for a few days.
Thanks for all the great videos, I'm headed over to Hydro Gardens today to pick up some Master Blend (they are local for me, bonus!) and wanted to just say thank you for all the great advice, we're starting our first hydro garden this year and hope for great things! BTW a simple formula for volume is LxWxH (in inches) divided by 231 = gallons. :)
You're a smart man Randall. The MB is Nitrate, the 2 MG's are Urea...and the Triple 20 is a combination of both. So it would make sense that the Triple 20 would be the second best, but it's not. Or maybe it doesn't make sense. :)
If you use something sterile, I think it's ok.. like a combination of peat, perlite, coir.
The quickest way to calculate the gallon capacity of any four corner container is to multiply L x W x D = total...... divide total by 231 (231 cubic inches per gallon).
If you should have round container - measure the diameter and multiply by 3.1 that will give you circumference, divide the circumference by 4, then take that number and multiply that number times itself and then times the depth and then divide by 231.
Hopefully Helpful
Interesting experiment there Bobbie. Thanks for showing us how these 4 products compare.