Heat Pump Not Keeping Up And It’s Not Low On Refrigerant!
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- In this video I visit an apartment where the heat pump pressures were way too close together! #hvacguy #hvac #airconditioning #hvaclife #airconditioner #hvactrainingvideos #hvaccompany #hvactroubleshooting #skilledtrades #bluecollar #bluecollarpride #heatpump #furnace @GoodmanMfgTV @HVACKnights @FieldpieceProducts @MilwaukeeTool #txv #condenser #aireacondicionado #bombadecalor
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I saw that on the switched hoses right when you were hooking them up, I said what in the heck!!
As far as the compressor, I called that right at the beginning, either reversing valve or cracked valve plate! After the pressures/Temps on the reversing valve , I said had to be cracked valve plate!!
That is scroll compressor, there is no valve plate.
@@dennismelton3475 well....cracked valve then......same difference....still acts the same!
@@jackedwards7420whats that ?
I like this video and all the comments..
I've been doing HVAC for 27 years and still mess up my hoses every now and then.. makes me human.. can't wait for AI robots to take over then all you key board commandos would be out of a job.
AI isn’t taking my job. If it wants to lug all the stuff I need on the roof though I’m ok with that. LOL
Maybe should have checked true suction while in heat mode. That would eliminate the indoor metering device as the problem.
Low amps draw and low discharge pressure says that compressor is not pumping as it should be
After I bought my house, I decided to do maintenance on my ac and when I checked the pressures it was doing the same thing. It threw me way off. At first, I thought it had an oversized piston. I finally pumped down the system and opened the metering device up and found the piston "O" ring staring at me. I said hey don't you be looking at me and turned it around. My electric bill went down by 20 percent after putting the piston in the right way. Thank God the condenser has an accumulator.
Wow! Thanks for sharing this!
Love the honesty! I got my gauges on backwards! That's real world, when stuff like that happens you can only lol! I have had on the smans had the wrong refrigerant type selected as well, it happens. If you catch it before you do anything that is the key! Love your videos! Real!!!
YES !!
think u have a metering device issue on the indoor coil. I agree with "davidlittle" piston backwards or not in at all. Your liquid line is sweating because the refrigerant flow is faster than what the components can handle and this causes a pressure drop. I've seen this happen across solenoids that aren't blocked, but the flow is too much for what they can handle and you have a pressure drop across them. Similar is happening with too much flow in your liquid line. You have low compressor amps because your compressor ratio is low and this will also affect your discharge temperature.
Never even stepped inside. I'd of at least checked indoors as it could have been a gorilla that put the system in and a metering device is certainly in play. If it starves the compressor of gas the heat will never get generated.
@@JimN_AustinTx I also thought about a malfunctioning TXV. If the TXV was open (stuck or loose bulb) then there would be no backpressure to the compressor and full flow to the suction. The excess flow could cause the cooling on the LL
It will be interesting to see the changeout and startup.
Yea he didn't have his Guage on true suction when checking in heat mode I don't think. Discharge port and subcooled port. I suspect metering issue indoor as well.
Once you get to 3 psi,release cont-actor to see if the valves are holding,2 cents.and once pump down,check piston inside.have seen a piece of teflon tape holding it open,on regular ac.
A scroll won't always pull down to 0. I adjust the liquid valve to restrict the liquid like a metering device to see if I can get it to start looking normal on suction..
I’ve so far struggled tremendously with this exact problem, thanks for explaining this in depth!!
Happy to help! There are some good comments on other things to check as well.
@@HVACGUY Thank You ALL !! Amazing that you all share your knowledge! That is what Makes You Tube SO Interesting!
You’re very Methodical and a Highly Skilled HVAC Tech. Your customers and viewers Appreciate your consistent and strong 💪 efforts. Thanks Curtis! 👍🙏
That would concur with the high suction pressure. Good troubleshooting, thanks for the training for guys like myself.
You bet
Awesome diagnosis!!!
Love your videos!!! Keep up the good work!!!
Glad you like them!
@@HVACGUY This IS Like taking off with a serious Advanced Team of Super Techs! Thanks to all of YOU!
In the old days before hermetic compressors were used we use to replace the valve spring plates when we put the compressor through a pump down and it was slow or would not go into a deep vacuum. And when shut off the suction would rise immediately. Then we got hermetic compressors and all we could do is look at them then replace them. If he motor is running and the amp draw is not near design along with a mild refrigeration effect it's time to change the compressor. If the 3 way valve was bypassing you could easily hear the gas going by. My money is on the compressor.
Great troubleshooting! Great video! Keep putting them out here!
Thanks! Will do!
Really nice watching Curtis getting busy on this one. Just sell them a replacement unit like the other big and small companies like to do. You can always use those old units for spare parts. I remember cutting open a compressor casing and replacing a broken spring the welding compressor back up. Worked another 12 years before it was replaced with a known good used unit. Love the freebies 😊 😊😊😊😊😊
That pump down trick with the hissing was cool. Gonna add that to my tricks. Great vid as always
Glad you liked it!
What does it really mean? Does that eliminate the compressor?
@@isaiahurio2197 I take it as the hissing sound is the compressor leaking
@@SJJtech Some scroll compressors have an low pressure / low compression internal bypass preventing it to pull down to 0 or into a vacuum
Great call and troubleshooting advice thanks for the video
You bet
Hello sir thank you for sharing your knowledge of the trade.
That was a great video. I learned a few things. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Great job,Curtis!
It's definitely the compressor. While pumping down, a good compressor should be able to achieve a 25" vacuum. I learned that over 30 years ago.
A scroll compressor is capable of pulling a deep vacuum very quickly, and shouldn't be allowed to run like that longer than a few seconds - due to damaging it
Good work Curtis, i hope you score the repair job 👍 Au
I have the samething going on a ac. I watched a video that pretty much said the compressor wasn't compressing anymore. he also said on heatpumps that it might be the reversing valve bypassing do to the compressor not compressing.
its just not the electromagnic that moves the reversing valve but the pressure from the compressor..
I always enjoy your real world videos.Regards from UK.
Glad you like them!
A loose txv bulb or it being uninsulated causes those same symptoms
Overfeeding metering device was my first instinct
Yes sir
I also thought about a malfunctioning TXV. If the TXV was open (stuck or loose bulb) then there would be no backpressure to the compressor and full flow to the suction. The excess flow could cause the cooling on the LL
It will be interesting to see the changeout and startup.
Yeah, I would say compressor also. I had this happen on a new install. Never had anything like that happened to me before on a new installation. I was so damn pissed. Good video.
By the way, 95 percent of the time a new install fails early is because of oil migration to the accumulator. Debris or flakes from oxidation during brazing can clog the little oil jet return in the accumulator, trapping the oil. That's if it has an Accumulator.
@@Bryan-Hensley no accumulator plus I always braze with nitrogen. This was the first time in 15 years that I had a defective compressor on a new install.
@@deanmartin1966 I've had a couple to do what this one in the video is doing but it was caused from multiple evaporator freeze ups. The customer would not keep the filter changed. I've had to clean their evaporator coil once a year pretty much.
@@Bryan-Hensley yeah usually renters are the ones that never change filters.
Thanks for the video Curtis, great job, I agreed, I would replace the compressor as my first option, additionally I would inform to my customer about the possibility to replace a different component after replacing the compressor, thank you again compadre
Cant wait for a compressor vidioe 😊
Doing one tomorrow
@@HVACGUY awsome 😃😃
It’s always the txv 😅
👍👍👍
"gauges on backwards" lolol Man I thought you had some strategy/technique/trickies going on, lol. I was thinking " okay, the Liquid line sweating, maybe he's going to check pressure in reverse, hmm lets see." But nope, they were backwards, lol.
You have a metering issue indoors. It is either the piston is in backward, or not one at all, or the expansion value is wide open. The load amps and the liquid line sweeting is due to the evap coil being flooded with liquid. If you what to confirm this or a compressor do a psychrometric chart to see the capacity.
If that were the case it would still have a high discharge temperature
Not with it flooding back. It will drop the discharge temp.
Bingo! Or a massive overcharge of some mystery gas
you would have a High RLA if that was the cause.
He still had low head pressure when he switched it over to heat. How would that be a txv issue?
Most likely metering device fault, either piston is wrong size or TXV stuck open depending on which one you're working with. I wouldn't just go changing the compressor without checking those, you'll just be back there shortly after the repair.
Curtis I would tend to think the drier is clogged and the txv or piston is missing or not in correctly. I wish the goodman unit had a true discharge pressure port so you can check that. Your key it is that you had better pressures when running in heat and the liquid line is cool to touch and high suction pressure when running in act.
I would like to see the difference in Just replacing compressor and if you just replace the filter drier and piston/txv?🧐
just started the video... close to equalized... pump down compressor and if it doesnt pump down the compressor is bad, or the reversing valve is not seating properly
You didn’t check for a massive overcharge or a stuck open txv. If txv is stuck open you get same effect. I would pull the charge and weigh it. If it’s ok then condemn compressor
Massive overcharge would have pressures way above 300psi. Also the amps would be sky high as well!
He barely had 220psi on the liquid line.
If it’s pumping liquid the scrolls will separate. Low discharge and low heat dissipation
Hes an idiot
Hes an idiot
I thought the metering device was letting too much refrigerant through 😞
didn't know about a pump down text though.
If not compressor, overfeeding evaporator coil, it will cause low sh, low sc, high suction pressure.
yet in heat mode it has low head for outdoor temp so i don't think it's that.
He didn’t show suction pressure in heat mode to really answer this. An indoor metering device missing or stuck open would cause low head in heat mode also.
I just had this same problem last week only with a/c only not heat pump and I missed diagnosed at first and replaced the TXV and had the same problem and then replaced the compressor and all is well.
I knew it was the compressor...
I had something similar to this two weeks ago. It was a new issue for me, so I called my coworker for help. We reached the conclusion the compressor was failing . We replaced it and unit start cooling properly. It was not an easy call
if you have low RLA then its the compressor is not compressing.
That’s true. But why is it not compressing? It’s a scroll so no valves are blown. If it’s a massive overcharge or just plain over feeding it is trying to compress liquid. It can’t so the scrolls separate and the amps drop because it’s not doing any work. The fact that it pumped Down at all says the compressor is likely good. Pulling and weighing the charge would definitely be my next step. If that’s a good weight I would put virgin refrigerant back in. Start it and see if there’s a change. You never know what some jack leg pumped into that thing. I also saw in another comment someone said use liquid service valve to meter refrigerant. I agree. That can rule out metering device
I thought u were doing a special test at the beginning, I was ready to watch another tech tip lol ..
Good video Curtis
1.2 compression ratio is very low.
I watched the video 2 times and you never said if it was a TXV inside. Exactly how did you determine the refrigerant was not low? I have heard that if a TXV is not fed a solid column of liquid it would not work correctly. I would wonder if your liquid line is sweating how could it be a solid column of liquid?
Disconnect the outdoor fan motor and see what head pressure you get.
Good idea
Yup
Internal pressure relief valve being stuck open in the compressor OR overfeeding metering device (same outcome, different causes) would have the same symptoms, no?
Definitely mechanical failure of the compressor 😎
Sweating liquid line the dryer that is inside the cabinet. I have had them work as a metering device and even freeze up.
For me the low SH tells me that the indoor coil is flooded with refrigerant, I’d say my problem is in the indoor coil, piston or txv ect.
Many years ago the AC in one rental unit of my commercial building suddenly lost most of its cooling capability. The suction line stopped sweating and the liquid line was at ambient temperature. Compressor, condenser fan, and indoor blower were all still running. No breakers tripped. This condensing unit had that old “barrel shaped” cabinet (are any of those still operating today?). I think the brand name might have been “Singer.” Problem turned out to be failure of the internal high pressure relief valve inside the compressor. After careful listening we could hear the hissing noise made by refrigerant passing through the pressure relief valve inside the compressor. I replaced the entire condensing unit because it was old already.
It appears that a similar internal compressor fault is what Curtis diagnosed in this video. I’m eager to see the next video of this job where the compressor gets replaced!
Very interesting. With our heat pump not keeping up (2.5T for 1584 sq. ft.), I wonder what our liquid line discharge temp is...
Look like you got a oversized unit for your house
@@lukealexander5742 It has never kept up. The unit it replaced was 3T.
Temp of the liquid line before and after the dryer.
temp check must be done at dryer, a clogged dryer becomes a temp/psig reducing device, or just replace compressor and FILTER DRYER an everthing will work fine. KEY SWEETING LIQUID LINE AN LOCATION OF DRYER
More than likely it’s an over feeding metering device. Most scroll compressors will not pump down to 3psi I would say the compressor is ok. Keep the videos coming Curtís.
I agree.
Yes sir, or massive overcharge
So, you’re just ignoring the low discharge temperature?
If the txv was overfeeding, the compressor would be pulling very high amp draw due to the abnormally high load on it. There would also potentially be much closer to normal high pressure. All the combined readings confirmed his diagnosis
All the checks Curtis did was great, but I have a well know chart in front of me that says all the symptoms he diagnosed. You would look at the metering device first then the compressor. Not saying I’m correct on this one but I would look at the metering device
Initial thought would jave been restriction at filter drier. Pressures like that wouldnalso indicate a bad compressor valve. Discharge temp should be like you said 150-170.
Bad compressor is probably best diagnosis because at high initial suction your getting gas back to compressor but not through it. Nice job.
I ran across something like this where the pressures were pretty much equal. Wanna heat pump never got to do the repair because the customer refused for me to come out and fix it. They wanted the warranty company to cover it which the company did not my guess is the compressor is not pumping because what I did was I shut off the suction line to see if there was a pressure difference which it was not and then I did the same for the liquid line, and there was not so pretty much. The compressor was not pumping that’s my guess on this one.
👍👍👍😎☕
For new people
On new units if you play around with king valves
If you close the liquid line obviously it goes to pump down.and when you close the suction line ONLY you can see how the pressure at liquid stays the same and suction line builds up to be the same reading to liquid line
Had a similar approach today but higher liquid pressure. Checked compressor,reversing valve and indoor txv. Came to a conclusion it was the txv overfeeding due to reversing valve and compressor being ok. Definitely had my head spinning. 3 deg sc. 7 deg superheat with high load on evap. 10 deg temp split.
Comp valve
Great troubleshooting Curtis. Hopefully you will get the repairs.
Thanks
I just don’t understand how you do not check from true suction when in heat mode or check the metering device 😂
Good job - lol NO not low on refrigerant newbe's. Oh well I suppose we were all newbe's once upon a time, 100 years ago
Probably a bad txv, not regulating and keeping the valve almost open, make a test removing the txv bulb out of the line and check the pressures
See if it can pump itself down. If it can’t the scroll could be faulty. Or… the metering device isn’t working.
I won’t be embarrassed next time I hook up my gauge hoses backwards!
“Show me a person who has never made a mistake and I'll show you somebody who has never achieved much.”
We all make mistakes 😉
Question for you Curtis. I have a Mr. Cool mini split. The larger of the two lines is icing back towards the coil in my garage. It's been 110+° for the past week. Could that be the cause? I clean the evaporator twice yearly. I live in SoCal. Thanks in advance.
Likely low on Freon if filter and coil on evap are clean.
would love to know what the temp drop was across the filter drier.
lack of proper investigative diagnosis led to an assumption rather than confirmation from what I saw on the video..
? what did the pump down test actually tell you both gauges almost totally equalized down to 3 but No lower ...My guess would be an bleed over hi to low inside the compressor ..Thanks for the tutorial
Compressor time I do believe. Not much of a load on the compressor and almost equalized pressures
At 8:51 … I’m guessing it’s over charged, but I’m an amateur 🤷♂️
Watched until the end. I agree. Compressor. The hissing I’m guessing is gasses bleeding back past the scroll inside?
I'll go out on a limb here:
The red flag is the sweating 'liquid' line.
The metering device is in the outdoor unit. You are reading phase change and suction pressures hence the difference of 40 psi.
Its been massively overcharged by another hack trying to get the 'liquid' line up to pressure..
My moneys on bad TXV. That compressor was pumping that system up over 400 psi when you pulled the reversing valve wire. I would have at least tested the TXV with a cup of ice water or something. Check the temperature on each side of it. Am I wrong? I just had to cut my neighbors out last week because it was overheating and shutting off on thermal overload because it wasn't flowing refrigerant through the condenser coil at all. We'll worry about his heat pump this fall right now his thermostat is switched to normal electric to get him by on heat coils.
Head pressure only got to 240 in heat
i thought you werent supposed to pump down scroll compressors which can cause damage or am i wrong? In general, you should not pump down a unit with a scroll compressor because the refrigerant acts as insulation between the electrical motor windings and the ground frame. Pumping down could damage the motor by causing it to short to the ground frame. Instead, you can recover the remaining refrigerant in the line set by shutting the service valves.
For checking purpose u can but you shouldn’t let it run in vacuum very long
100% compressor has mechanically failed
cant be compressor due to low super heat. Leaky valve hot to cold always high SH.
I have a five year-old AC condenser should I change the capacitor on it and the contacts as part of the maintenance it’s a USA mars one?
The compressor is bypassing internally
Would a seasoned pro put his gauges on backward ?
Typically., a defective compressor will have low sweatback. From what I could tell you have high sweatback, to wit..a flooded condenser. I'd be looking for a missing orifice,or an over-sized orifice, or an improperly adjusted TXV, or a TXV that's stuck open.
Sounds more like refrigerant is by passing the metering device .
Very likely txv is open, piston is backwards or missing or massive overcharge
Agree Panama
You pumped it down but didn’t close off suction side?
9 times out of 10 when I get calls and the refrigerant is good there’s supply duct leaks. Good job Curtis
The hoses are on the wrong valves
I have had a clogged liquid line dryer cause that problem
I don't think it is the compressor because the LL was sweating. Sounds like a restriction in the factory installed LL dryer.
A restriction would give high head low suction
@polishsharpshooter2876 no it wouldn't. The only way that LL is sweating is liquid is flashing. A restriction of sufficient size would reduce Amp draw and head pressure just like closing the LL service valve.
To much flow rate for the drier will cause pressure drop. Something is wrong on the indoor unit orifice I think
@hvactech77 explain the LL sweating at the service valve.
@@michaelbuxton9368that’s true but he had high suction pressure and low head
It's just a restricted liquid line drier my man..that's the only thing that would make your liquid line sweat..you are starving the indoor TXV is the reason for the high suction pressure.
exact same thought as soon as video started showing sweating discharge line.
only a guess, but after 25 years my guesses are usually pretty accurate
What's the best way to diagnose restricted drier? Take line temp before and after the drier? They should be same. Restriction would cause lower temp downstream?
@@mtbbiker6401you got it!
@@mtbbiker6401 I agree, and that was my first thought as well, but how does that explain the cooler than normal discharge line coming off the compressor? A restriction should make it hotter than normal not cooler than normal. Just the fact that it was able to pump down to 3.2 psi tells me the compressor is pumping. The internal bypass on a scroll compressor is why he couldn't pull it down to 0 or into a vacuum (hissing). I will definitely be watching to see if it is indeed the compressor or a wide open TXV on the indoor unit. That would give the same symptoms as a non pumping compressor and would equalize the pressures on both sides of the system to the point that it could be possible for the refrigerant to start boiling off in the liquid line, and it would not put as much load on the compressor, so it would naturally run at lower than designed amps. A scroll compressor doesn't have traditional intake and exhaust valves like on older reciprocating compressors, so if it's not pumping then why?, but it is pumping because he pumped it down. I'm putting my money on a stuck open TXV. Can't wait to watch the follow up video on this.
The reversing valve is not switching over all the way it looks like.
WHICH IS THE LIQUID LINE? BIG OR SMALL ONE⁉️... Read more
At the beginning u hooked the red hose to the suction line and the blue hose to the discharge line ??? 🤔 pressures will be way off
Yeh I know
Good observation, but he caught that and corrected it right away.
The sweating liquid line would rather suggest to me a metering of the high side before it gets outsidethe cabinet. I would have. Rather searched for the TD on the high side i.e. the reversing valve being only partially shifted over. Thiswouldslso account for thehigh suction pressure. Search forwhere the LL gets old
What were you saying about a seasoned technician?
😂 happens to all of us
Crap systems , designed to waste energy and need to hire a "professional " capitalism air-conditioned worker , never will i use a air-conditioning thats needs a ac worker any issues and refrigerate should be free from the company you buy a air-conditioning unit with no liquid refrigerate, or broken down, scam scam scam