Andrew. Glad you got it sorted and good luck with the move. BTW, 44/45Ah capacity is virtually the same thing, it’s only an approximation anyway. Please give your new battery a good head start. They don’t typically come 100% charged when new, and you can be certain the dealer won’t have charged it for you. So please put it in Utility Mode for a *good few hours* now. That will give your new battery a good healthy top up. It will do no harm, and costs almost nothing in HV power. Lead Acid batteries are only truly happy when they are 100% charged. Please don’t keep saying this 12V saga makes boring vids. This is stuff I like to see. Especially now that you can show the battery logger graphs! Good luck. Peter.
I'm driving my eNiro since December 2019 and never had any battery issues, not with the main battery nor with the 12V battery. So it's not purely a design fault by KIA, under normal circumstances the 12V top up via the main battery once every 24 hours (ish) is sufficient. However, if you ever ran the main battery to a dead stop (beyond turtle mode), you're 12V will most likely also take a beating (if not only for the hazard lights that are on while you wait for road side assistance). Once that has happened, the 12V probably needs a more frequent top up from the main battery than only once every 24 hours. Therefore, I think the system should charge according to a voltage threshold. The system could check battery voltage every two hours but only start a top up when the voltage drops below a defined level. That way you can use the older/damaged 12V battery longer. Just my 2 ct.
This seems to sum up the reality of the ‘calcium flooded’ battery, pretty well: “ Calcium batteries are lead acid batteries, however their chemical composition is slightly different to provide lower internal resistance and therefore greater cranking Amp supply when compared with a same size AGM, wet cell or Gel type. They do require a slightly higher voltage when charging (14.8v) for a 12v battery, failure to maintain a good charge or if stored for a long time in a partial state of charge will cause loss of capacity.”
Swapping the battery is a cheap cop-out. It's treating the symptom rather than the disease. If you don't manually keep a close eye on the new battery's state of health weekly the car will certainly kill this new battery just as it killed the first one.
I watched your previous videos and man it was painful to watch them about the 12v battery. All the work you put to it and I'm pulling my hair here and screaming that just replace it since it deep discharged so it's gone. Glad to see you finally got new one :D so much stuff bought and time spend just because not enough info how the battery works. Maybe its good for entertainment or educational perspective =)
As a motorhome’r I have both, leisure batteries for habitation and normal for starter motor. The leisure battery is designed for slow discharge. However no battery should be discharge more that 50% and less maybe 60-70% if possible. I think Andrew is right though, the maintaining of his 12 volt battery is poor and needs an update. I’ve the latest E Niro 4+ so hope this problem has been resolved, I did own a Hyundai Kona Electric for nearly 2 year without any problems.
Kia warranty in my experience has been second to none. Never quibbled with anything with my car so I am pleased to hear you had a good experience. Other car warranties have never come close!
Nice! For the record, this is not just a Kia problem at all. You see this in many EVs. Our Citigo doesn't even have a top-up function when car is standing unused. Luckily the Citigo doesn't really use the 12V at all, so it keeps the voltage even now, in winter.
Thank you for this! I'm dealing with this exact issue right now (for last 6 mos.. mostly because the Kia service centers are very inconveniently located and out of city so I basically jumped the battery till it died completely. Incidentally, I sent your videos to KIA via their message form. Who knows how they'll handle this battery issue. Now I'm stuck with a bit of a lemon car till gawd knows when . . . with all cars being so hard to buy.lease.rent with supply chain issues. Hope your move went well.
The positive aspect of this is that you are sorted and that you highlighted the Battery Monitor II unit - I bought one. While in Lockdown my Honda CR-V battery is playing up now and again so needs detailed checking. I have not gone EV yet but getting close and do wonder what you will have next?
it seems like such a simple thing. just program it so the main battery charges the 12v when it gets a bit low. beggers believe that they can't do such a simple thing.
Glad you got it sorted, you are very high profile in the Kia e Niro world and possibly got treated a bit better than us lesser mortals. You have however set a precedent and we should all be grateful that we can quote your experience with Kia dealers. I have had no problems and think the car is the best I have ever owned, and I have owned Jags, a Porche, Range rovers etc, but never a BMW,
I'm not sure my dealer's service department know anything about my videos actually! But yes, I do hope it can help others with the same issues. The more warranty claims Kia has to pay, the better.
I was told many years ago these modern batteries when their time is up its up. There is no reguvinatibg it. Also that testing a car battery shortens its life so it shouldn't be tested routinely. Yesterday morning the battery monitor on the uvo app was yellow and said caution. I hadn't used the car for three days and it wasn't plugged in. Having watched all your videos I sprung out of bed to investigate. I unlocked and turned the car on, the dash indicated the boot was open. I hadn't closed it properly. Turned off the car after a few minutes, locked up, refreshed the app when back in the house and the battery monitor was green and said normal. Not sure if the boot door had anything to do with it.
I just purchased a 2022 KIA Niro , it had 52 miles on the OD when I took delivery ! I was on my 4th charge and at 80% , I stopped. Later I went to move th car and it was stone cold dead . I checked the 12 volt plus all Fuses. The volt meter showed 11 volts, which I felt should be adequate, but I found out it was not. I called KIA service and a toe truck showed up and it was the drivers fist experience and he did not know how to put it in neutral so he could pull it up on the truck . He called the boss and he decided to put the booster on the 12 volt. low and behold the car lit up and I was able to start the electric motor and we coxed the KIA on the truck. and off it went to the dealer 8 miles away. Ihad long conversations with the service department and told them I reviewed Mr EV on YOU Tube and told them to do the same ! The next day they called me and told me they charged the battery and said their computer told them the battery was good. My. response was so what caused the battery to discharge ? No real response, so I suggested is the proper code set in the computer to cause the main battery to charge the 12 volt. Again, no reasonable response
Glad that the battery is sorted and I agree that Kia should release an update to refresh it more often. Could you please do a video to explain how returning your car and getting a new one works, as I am just starting a lease and a little worried in how to get timings sorted properly especially if a car is on back order! Finally, good luck with the move and go solar panels and Tesla battery! We use a lot of electricity before adding a car approx 25kWh/day so our 8kWh solar and Tesla powerwall 2 are fantastic when the sun shines! I bought only 6kWh from the grid last night using our cheap night time rate. The rest of todays energy needs are now powered from solar and recharging the battery, to use at night! Obviously the months of November, December and January are rubbish and little help in that they are the darkest months.
That’s great! Hope that does the trick and your problems are over. I have a meter for mind and haven’t seen any problem. Almost two year of ownership. I did notice that it does charge when I’m driving and the battery keeper from the propulsion battery is working well. Thanks for the heads up.
I have been enjoying watching your RUclips videos. I am getting the E Niro Sx model (here in New Zealand) in a couple of weeks, and I'm really interested to find out which new car you will get. I loved your wife's comments about the Tesla, it looks totally impractical for a family especially with a dog. I hope that they have sorted out the 12v battery problem in the version I am getting.
Greetings from Sweden. I'm picking up my 2021 e-Niro tomorrow and the first thing I'm going to do is to get a bigger/Stronger 12v battery. looking forward to your next video
Another way of 'saving' the 12v battery? Yesterday I took my partner for her annual hospital appointment. Due to the covid restrictions the appointment lasted a very long 1.5 hours! I was in the car park in the e-niro, listening to the radio, playing some audio tracks etc. gradually getting more bored. Then I remembered about the utility mode. This mode is accessed via the steering wheel rhd buttons. Once in this mode ALL the 12v side is now using the main battery and therefore there is no drain on the 12v battery. You cannot drive the car in this mode, even with the car powered up. This got me thinking is the 12v battery being charged in this mode? I was at the hospital for 1.5 hours, and when I got back home I did notice switch off/on was quicker and the lights on the wing mirrors brighter as they moved. Just a thought Andrew, any comments? By the way my partner passed her MOT!
Yes, the 12v is being charged in utility mode. It’s also charged in ‘ready mode’ which is when the car is able to drive. I suppose we just have to train ourselves not to turn off the car if we’re waiting in it!
These videos have been popping up as YT suggestions for a couple of days and I've been thinking --- "When is this guy going to get a new battery, *_ALREADY_* ?????" *A T L A S T !!!!*
Yeah! I am so happy that they swapped out the batt. and agree with you that there is still something fishy with the 12v management system to begin with.
William, the first thing I asked the dealership to do was to replace the battery, they declined and the car has like 327 miles on it . They charged the battery and time will tell if the technical problem has been corrected . MR EV is a great source of information. I use U Tube for my machining Hobby to get ideas .
Hi Andrew Thanks for your great videos. I'm an oldy and have bought a Kia eNiro 4 last July. Very pleased with it (my first EV). Concerning this battery issue. Looking at the Kia manual it says the battery is based on cadmium not lead acid. Well if it is a nickel cadmium battery then it should NEVER be totally discharged as this will damage the battery!! Why didn't Kia use a standard 40 amp hour lead acid battery. These can be discharged totally without damage and will stand many charge/ discharge cycles, after all we been using lead acid batteries in cars for many, many years!! Thanks again for your entertaining and informative videos Cheers JBP
There is no way any of the the battery's Is based on cadmium that much be a translation error more than likely its a calcium battery which is a newer type of lead acid that self discharged less.
I am going through the Solar panel testing now. I have had 6 Months Solar experience and just purchased 2022 KIA NIRO . The car is great, except for this 12 volt battery issue, I will post my experience ! I had 150 % of my previous 2 year history of electricity usage . So the 50% over capacity should be enough to keep my KIA charged. My Panels generate 240 Volts and 40 AMPS of power ! I am hoping to be fueled and driving on SUN power !
Good luck with the move. The countryside around here is gorgeous, you won't regret it. Which area are you going to? We're in Boughton and there are definitely fewer seagulls! They do bowl up onto the rec when the tide is in but they're the quiet ones thank goodness 😂 Been fascinating watching your 12v trials, not boring at all, cheers. 👍
This battery is no more! It has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-BATTERY
Have you see the 2022 Ioniq 5 has a 350Kw DCFC, 10% to 80% in 18mins? They also ditched LG Chem for SK! So like the Kia Niro it might not burn up. The hour it takes us now, this sounds like a God sent.
The real problem is that the OEM's are using standard car batteries for this, but they are designed to crank engines and be used at every start. EV 12V is never stressed, so you need a storage rather than a cranking battery. This could be a NiMh or Lithium battery, or a recreational lead acid. It needs an intelligent battery management system.
You said your battery monitor showed the old battery as fine until you tried starting the car. If that's the case even if the eNiro properly monitored the battery it wouldn't know to charge it. I agree a mixture of more regular top-ups plus monitoring would be good.
It’s insane that Kia doesn’t change to better 12V batteries. And when driving with led drl during daytime the charge voltage is between 12-13V which is ridiculous and doesn’t put juice into the battery. It just barely keeps the battery alive 🪫
I wonder is the battery a standard car battery or is it a leisure battery? The standard car battery is designed for short, high amperage discharges to start the engine. EV's won't discharge them in this way. I think a better option would be a leisure battery, these are designed for long, low amperage discharges, like what you would expect from an EV.
Yes I agree with you, as a motorhome’r I have both, leisure batteries for habitation and normal for starter motor. The leisure battery is designed for slow discharge. However no battery should be discharge more that 50% and less maybe 60-70% if possible. I think Mr EV is right though, the maintaining of his 12 volt battery is poor and needs and update. I’ve the latest E Niro 4+ so hope this problem has been resolved, I did own an Hyundai Kona Electric for nearly 2 year without any problems.
@@danielbrodard a standard battery is designed to supply a large amount of current for a short duration while a leisure battery is designed to provide a low current over a long duration. AGM technology can be configured to operate as either. Slow discharging can destroy standard batteries (AGM's less so) but, liesure batteries trive on it. As the 12v in an EV is only providing low amperage to power the ancillary equipment it stresses a standard battery so you will have a greater failure rate
My experience of calcium batteries (albeit with ford), is that they are terrible! Especially on vehicles prone to flat batteries. Swap to a bosch with a 5 year warranty, no more problem. Best of luck!
My Kia Niro EV 2019 battery just died.. just barely under the 3-year warranty period since I bought it in 2020. Hopefully Kia dept here in "the states" will replace my battery without hassle... They told me they will need to test the battery along with the car to confirm it's dead, though last time I checked my battery measured 4.5V, so I think it's pretty much dead. Will need to recharge it so it can drive for about an hour to a Kia dealership. Alas.
It is interesting that Kia replaced your 12V battery no charge, my dealer said it was a prorata price to replace it and I was not going to pay for another crap 12V from Kia. I bought a larger capacity AGM battery and so far it is great. Have a good move! 😎
A larger battery will take more charge in the same time, as well as being bigger capacity wise to start. It looked from the previous video that the DC to DC was working. A discharge testing of the battery would give the answer to its health. They will have a test routine to follow. And it goes in April!
Are 12-volts not covered under a two year warranty in Canada then? I’d have got an AGM one too if I was keeping the car - it makes so much more sense. Glad it’s working well for you so far!
After our 3rd fail of our (less than a year old) Kia Soul 12V battery, I've got to get it back to the dealers on Monday (they've previously said it's all fine, so wouldn't replace). RAC said bad cell, needed replacing. Any ideas what I need to say to them to make sure it's checked in a way it will show the fault? I suspect, once the car is jump started, the 30 min drive there charges it up. Thanks so much for your videos, glad we're not the only ones with 12V woes!
Am having exactly this problem. Died once jumped by AA and dealer said there was no problem. Serviced the following week and here we are two weeks later and died again. No lights on nothing plugged in. Typically just over two years old so will no doubt try and make me pay for a new battery (if they admit there is a problem at all!) any advice greatly appreciated
if you go on kia connect and start climate control the 12v will instantly start charging from the main battery.saw this on bjorns site it got me out of a sticky situation and a couple of minutes like this will give you enough juice to start up
This is not just an EV issue. The garage I use for my MOT and Service has said that since lockdown they have had lots of battery issues and stuck brakes and clutches. Cars are designed with a fairly narrow use case and covid lockdown wasn't high on the agenda for the last hundred years of car development. The point is you need to drive your car reqularly and for a minimum of fifteen minutes per start otherwise you will deplete the 12v battery (electric, petrol and diesel) although I can't speak for hydrogen :-) I have a number of cars and during lockdown I seemed to spend all my time looking after bleedin 12v battery issues. Leaf,BMW(s) and Audi. In the end I bought solar panels for each car that sit on the dash and I haven't had any problems since.
That's true but I'd had to jump start the 12v several times long before lockdown. Interesting about the panels. They actually work then? I do have one; I should have tried it but assumed we didn't have enough sun in the UK recently to make much difference.
@@MrEV yes the panels work even in winter. I have a 20amp and a 10amp , in winter this equates to 1 and 2 amp but it is just enough to keep the battery happy when the car is idle.
Is this exclusively a eNiro problem or is this also happening on the hybrid models? If I get a dashcam hardwired, would this risk depleting the battery completely? I have a hybrid.
Hello Andrew, I'm from Colombia and I have a similar problem with the 12v batery, but it's locaded under the back seat. Can I contact U to know how kia solve your problem?
12V batteries ... 1) All cars have battery drain when a car is off - as it runs the security systems as a minimum, and more recently it runs internet connectivity. 2) ICE cars fail to start in the morning. 3) Electric cars can either charge their 12V battery all the time (the Tesla is best known - it is call phantom drain), some cars do not and only charge the 12V battery when the car is on - like the ID3 - the best known. 4) You cannot see 12 battery drain in ICE cars - your car fails to start. You cannot see battery drain on EV's that do NOT constantly charge their batteries, you can only see this as phantom drain on cars that do turn "on" the traction battery and top up the 12V battery . ICE cars and EV's that don't charge the 12V battery all the time don't have phantom traction battery drain - but will see the same problem as ICE car owners - their car does not start and the battery is destroyed. The "phantom-drain" is replaced with lower mpg (miles/kWh) when the 12V is charged. 5) If there is a 100mAh/day on a battery then a typical 12V battery will last only 2-5 days before becoming flat. We have seen that a lot of new EV cars are more "connected" and "clever" but this means they will have larger 12V drain. Nothing is free. Older EV will last a few weeks (like ICE cars) as they don't have smart features. If they put smart features on ICE cars, then all hell will occur as you cannot charge a 12V battery on an ICE car when it is off. (ICE cars have a different battery - for massive crank currents - EV's use deep cycle batteries - do NOT use the wrong sort). 6) 12V batteries exist on EV cars because - you don't want 400V behind your dash board, all standard electrical components are designed to work at 12V and traction batteries are turn off when the car is off for safety reasons. 7) Lead acid 12V batteries are used, not any form of Lithium battery because - they are robust, don't need expensive battery management systems, but most importantly, cope better than Lithium with constant charge/discharge cycles, have low internal resistance which means you can have a cheap charger (alternator in ICE) and the battery will prevent voltage rise on the 12V system. A 12V battery is constantly under charge discharge cycles, far more than your traction battery - even if you plug in your traction battery every day it would still last 10 years or much more (it has an expensive battery management system). A 12V battery undergoes 10-20 charge cycles a day - so you can see a Lithium battery would only last about 6 months, and that is exactly what people find when they try this. I am afraid you just hit the 2-3 year 12V battery replacement point for smart connected cars (it is not an EV thing, it is a - smart features that put more load and charge cycles on the 12V system problem). It is good that Hyundai have increased the charge cycle on their cars as this will help. In 2 years, you will know what to do - just get a new battery.
The discussion with my wife is here: ruclips.net/video/ESuT8Ct1iOM/видео.html We have a deposit down for the Fiat 500e but a proper e-Niro replacement? No idea yet! I need to show the IONIQ 5 to my wife. 😬
@@MrEV yes that new ionic looks incredible it might be good for you timewise yes? I know your wife likes big boxy vehicles but hopefully she will like the ionic five I think it looks awesome
@@MrEV I do enjoy watching your wife torture you, haha. Better you than me haha i’m not sure why people lease vehicles so much unless you are rich and never want to build equity. Seems like renting a house instead of buying one it’s hard to ever get a head. I’m sure Financials are just different over here. But in America if you keep a high credit score and are smart and not too picky you should be able to drive cars for free, that’s EVs right now because of incentives.
Definitely another EV! I'm not changing the channel name to Mr. Hybrid. Although that sounds cooler. We'll probably get the Fiat 500e. ruclips.net/video/ESuT8Ct1iOM/видео.html
Kia didn't update it for me and I haven't done it myself. I was tempted to but I didn't want to risk getting in trouble since it's a lease!
3 года назад
Its not unlikely that the new Kia battery is better in some ways. Deep cycle batteries are often lower in A rating as far as I know. So it could be more hardy but a bit less powerful, cranking Amps is not really useful in an EV anyway ;)
This IS interesting. Partly because it shouldnt happen. Best of luck with the move (impressed with the myenergi wall charger even though I have yet to get solar panels. Don't know what you are considering. Maybe worth a video - lol)
@@MrEV please make sure you purchase version 2 as that has pen fault detection ..... Andrew they are the only ones that are safe to use .... do they give you the option of purchasing the car at the end of the lease period
Andrew, with Hyundai replacing all the Kona high power batteries have you any idea if there is a potential problem in the Kia .....have they mentioned it or have you ask anyone ?
I have not followed your 12v saga from beginning. But you have a Nero without internet connection and app. You did a "upgrade" with OVMS to get app support. I am almost shure this nice upgrade killed your 12V battery. The power consumption of complete OVMS is ~ 1 W. Your 12V 44 Ah battery can deliver ~ 500 Wh The "upgrade" will completely draw your fully charged battery in ~ 500 h / 20 days. This is all on the sunny side situation! And indeed if you deep charge a mediocre lead acid battery once it could be end of story indeed. The power consumption of good car electronics in low power mode for app support could be 0.2 W or less. The strategy of charging the 12V battery should be done on continuies monitoring and charging, the 2020 Nero doesn't have that! The electronics should be of the level of state of the art (Mobile) electronics, OVMS is certainly not! I don't wanna scare you off with your Tesla fantasy, but Tesla has also poor electronics hardware. The power consumption of the electronics is > 200W!!!! The famous vampire drain. The so called iPad on wheels is actually a 2005 Windows tablet with a Intel Athom processor running with a Linux distribution. The 12V battery is constantly charged from the high volt battery. Common problem is often that after a completely discharged high volt battery you get a bonus depletion of the 12V battery! And because soo many features of the car (door opening!)are electromechanical, its full of supprises!!!😀😯
Good luck with the move ! I found a good app for predicting solar forecast best way I’ve seen so far after trying 3-4 weather apps check out pv forecast it’s got a free version but well worth the few p a day I think ! If you got decent size solar array get a solar ev charger then you can charge the ev from the sun ! Like zappi or project ev charger!
I can't imagine ever saying that! 😀 Fiat 500e seems most likely. We have a deposit down for one and my wife likes it so that's most of the battle! ruclips.net/video/ESuT8Ct1iOM/видео.html
Will the UK look like the next Planet of the Apes after covid...keep up the electric car vids. More of the wifes sister. Only joking!!! Well not really. Hope you are feeling well after the mini stroke. Take care.
I think it you its not designed to have obd plug in all the time it use power small yes It talks to on board computer that use power Put over 8 hr it adds up Then you got battery manger plug in again it use power small put it adds up I read by others they left the obd plug in and it kill the battery All the people that had problems use gadgets plug in all the time My 64k e nero i only been drive 1 mile to teasco 1 mile back once a week And have no problem I got no gadgets plug in not going to Once you kill the battery a cell go down then problems double
I've heard of many e-Niro owners who've had failures even without anything plugged-in but yes, my problems were certainly kickstarted by having OVMS in the OBD-II port.
@@MrEV Glad they replaced the 12v battery. Maybe there will not be a sequel as the battery issue looks to be resolved. We’re okay with a sequel if required.
Time for a Tesla. They have figured out how to make great electric vehicles. It also has the highest safety rating. Something for a family to think about.
Ha! The 12V battery in my brother-in-law’s Model 3 died in the first 2 years with no warning. Fortunately Tesla came out to the house to replace it for him, but they offered no explanation beyond “they just die sometimes. It’s not uncommon.”
The little battery monitor only draws 1.5mA. OVMS - the thing that was plugged-in ages ago - drew much more, but then it has a modem inside it and was much more sophisticated.
Andrew. Glad you got it sorted and good luck with the move. BTW, 44/45Ah capacity is virtually the same thing, it’s only an approximation anyway. Please give your new battery a good head start. They don’t typically come 100% charged when new, and you can be certain the dealer won’t have charged it for you.
So please put it in Utility Mode for a *good few hours* now. That will give your new battery a good healthy top up. It will do no harm, and costs almost nothing in HV power. Lead Acid batteries are only truly happy when they are 100% charged. Please don’t keep saying this 12V saga makes boring vids. This is stuff I like to see. Especially now that you can show the battery logger graphs! Good luck. Peter.
I'm driving my eNiro since December 2019 and never had any battery issues, not with the main battery nor with the 12V battery. So it's not purely a design fault by KIA, under normal circumstances the 12V top up via the main battery once every 24 hours (ish) is sufficient. However, if you ever ran the main battery to a dead stop (beyond turtle mode), you're 12V will most likely also take a beating (if not only for the hazard lights that are on while you wait for road side assistance). Once that has happened, the 12V probably needs a more frequent top up from the main battery than only once every 24 hours. Therefore, I think the system should charge according to a voltage threshold. The system could check battery voltage every two hours but only start a top up when the voltage drops below a defined level. That way you can use the older/damaged 12V battery longer. Just my 2 ct.
I couldn't agree more.
So pleased the battery has been replaced, shame you didn't request a replacement sooner! Good luck with the move.
This seems to sum up the reality of the ‘calcium flooded’ battery, pretty well:
“ Calcium batteries are lead acid batteries, however their chemical composition is slightly different to provide lower internal resistance and therefore greater cranking Amp supply when compared with a same size AGM, wet cell or Gel type.
They do require a slightly higher voltage when charging (14.8v) for a 12v battery, failure to maintain a good charge or if stored for a long time in a partial state of charge will cause loss of capacity.”
They are also better for less self discharging and better for colder climates.
Swapping the battery is a cheap cop-out. It's treating the symptom rather than the disease. If you don't manually keep a close eye on the new battery's state of health weekly the car will certainly kill this new battery just as it killed the first one.
I watched your previous videos and man it was painful to watch them about the 12v battery. All the work you put to it and I'm pulling my hair here and screaming that just replace it since it deep discharged so it's gone. Glad to see you finally got new one :D so much stuff bought and time spend just because not enough info how the battery works. Maybe its good for entertainment or educational perspective =)
Great news that they changed the battery for you with no hassle Andrew. All the best.
As a motorhome’r I have both, leisure batteries for habitation and normal for starter motor. The leisure battery is designed for slow discharge. However no battery should be discharge more that 50% and less maybe 60-70% if possible. I think Andrew is right though, the maintaining of his 12 volt battery is poor and needs an update. I’ve the latest E Niro 4+ so hope this problem has been resolved, I did own a Hyundai Kona Electric for nearly 2 year without any problems.
Kia warranty in my experience has been second to none. Never quibbled with anything with my car so I am pleased to hear you had a good experience. Other car warranties have never come close!
Nice! For the record, this is not just a Kia problem at all. You see this in many EVs. Our Citigo doesn't even have a top-up function when car is standing unused. Luckily the Citigo doesn't really use the 12V at all, so it keeps the voltage even now, in winter.
Glad to here you’ve got it sorted.
A good run of informative videos, well done. More bird noises is good
Glad to hear you got a new battery under warranty Andrew and hope the house move goes smoothly.
Calcium is added to batteries to lessen self discharge. It may also help with temperature variations but I'm not positive about that attribute.
Thank you for this! I'm dealing with this exact issue right now (for last 6 mos.. mostly because the Kia service centers are very inconveniently located and out of city so I basically jumped the battery till it died completely. Incidentally, I sent your videos to KIA via their message form. Who knows how they'll handle this battery issue. Now I'm stuck with a bit of a lemon car till gawd knows when . . . with all cars being so hard to buy.lease.rent with supply chain issues. Hope your move went well.
The positive aspect of this is that you are sorted and that you highlighted the Battery Monitor II unit - I bought one. While in Lockdown my Honda CR-V battery is playing up now and again so needs detailed checking. I have not gone EV yet but getting close and do wonder what you will have next?
it seems like such a simple thing. just program it so the main battery charges the 12v when it gets a bit low. beggers believe that they can't do such a simple thing.
Glad you got it sorted, you are very high profile in the Kia e Niro world and possibly got treated a bit better than us lesser mortals.
You have however set a precedent and we should all be grateful that we can quote your experience with Kia dealers.
I have had no problems and think the car is the best I have ever owned, and I have owned Jags, a Porche, Range rovers etc, but never a BMW,
I'm not sure my dealer's service department know anything about my videos actually! But yes, I do hope it can help others with the same issues. The more warranty claims Kia has to pay, the better.
Good to know that saga is over (hopefully). I hope the move to your new home goes smoothly and stress free!
Thanks very much!
If the car doesn't manage the 12v battery properly it's only a matter of time before this battery fails
I was told many years ago these modern batteries when their time is up its up. There is no reguvinatibg it. Also that testing a car battery shortens its life so it shouldn't be tested routinely. Yesterday morning the battery monitor on the uvo app was yellow and said caution. I hadn't used the car for three days and it wasn't plugged in. Having watched all your videos I sprung out of bed to investigate. I unlocked and turned the car on, the dash indicated the boot was open. I hadn't closed it properly. Turned off the car after a few minutes, locked up, refreshed the app when back in the house and the battery monitor was green and said normal. Not sure if the boot door had anything to do with it.
How do I measure the battery? Is it an app? How do I hook up my battery to the app?
I just purchased a 2022 KIA Niro , it had 52 miles on the OD when I took delivery ! I was on my 4th charge and at 80% , I stopped. Later I went to move th car and it was stone cold dead . I checked the 12 volt plus all Fuses. The volt meter showed 11 volts, which I felt should be adequate, but I found out it was not. I called KIA service and a toe truck showed up and it was the drivers fist experience and he did not know how to put it in neutral so he could pull it up on the truck . He called the boss and he decided to put the booster on the 12 volt. low and behold the car lit up and I was able to start the electric motor and we coxed the KIA on the truck. and off it went to the dealer 8 miles away. Ihad long conversations with the service department and told them I reviewed Mr EV on YOU Tube and told them to do the same ! The next day they called me and told me they charged the battery and said their computer told them the battery was good. My. response was so what caused the battery to discharge ? No real response, so I suggested is the proper code set in the computer to cause the main battery to charge the 12 volt. Again, no reasonable response
Thanks Andrew, what are you getting next?
There's a good chance it'll be a Fiat 500e! ruclips.net/video/ESuT8Ct1iOM/видео.html
Glad that the battery is sorted and I agree that Kia should release an update to refresh it more often.
Could you please do a video to explain how returning your car and getting a new one works, as I am just starting a lease and a little worried in how to get timings sorted properly especially if a car is on back order!
Finally, good luck with the move and go solar panels and Tesla battery! We use a lot of electricity before adding a car approx 25kWh/day so our 8kWh solar and Tesla powerwall 2 are fantastic when the sun shines! I bought only 6kWh from the grid last night using our cheap night time rate. The rest of todays energy needs are now powered from solar and recharging the battery, to use at night!
Obviously the months of November, December and January are rubbish and little help in that they are the darkest months.
Think we all knew this was going to happen several videos ago ;)
I'm a slow learner.
Definetly :D
That’s great! Hope that does the trick and your problems are over. I have a meter for mind and haven’t seen any problem. Almost two year of ownership. I did notice that it does charge when I’m driving and the battery keeper from the propulsion battery is working well. Thanks for the heads up.
Glad you got it sorted
I have been enjoying watching your RUclips videos. I am getting the E Niro Sx model (here in New Zealand) in a couple of weeks, and I'm really interested to find out which new car you will get. I loved your wife's comments about the Tesla, it looks totally impractical for a family especially with a dog. I hope that they have sorted out the 12v battery problem in the version I am getting.
Greetings from Sweden. I'm picking up my 2021 e-Niro tomorrow and the first thing I'm going to do is to get a bigger/Stronger 12v battery. looking forward to your next video
My mechanics say that a bigger battery might break the DC-DC converter. I m not sure it is the solution. BTW i m on my third 12V battery.
Another way of 'saving' the 12v battery? Yesterday I took my partner for her annual hospital appointment. Due to the covid restrictions the appointment lasted a very long 1.5 hours! I was in the car park in the e-niro, listening to the radio, playing some audio tracks etc. gradually getting more bored. Then I remembered about the utility mode. This mode is accessed via the steering wheel rhd buttons. Once in this mode ALL the 12v side is now using the main battery and therefore there is no drain on the 12v battery. You cannot drive the car in this mode, even with the car powered up. This got me thinking is the 12v battery being charged in this mode? I was at the hospital for 1.5 hours, and when I got back home I did notice switch off/on was quicker and the lights on the wing mirrors brighter as they moved. Just a thought Andrew, any comments? By the way my partner passed her MOT!
Yes, the 12v is being charged in utility mode. It’s also charged in ‘ready mode’ which is when the car is able to drive. I suppose we just have to train ourselves not to turn off the car if we’re waiting in it!
These videos have been popping up as YT suggestions for a couple of days and I've been thinking ---
"When is this guy going to get a new battery, *_ALREADY_* ?????"
*A T L A S T !!!!*
Yeah! I am so happy that they swapped out the batt. and agree with you that there is still something fishy with the 12v management system to begin with.
William, the first thing I asked the dealership to do was to replace the battery, they declined and the car has like 327 miles on it . They charged the battery and time will tell if the technical problem has been corrected . MR EV is a great source of information. I use U Tube for my machining Hobby to get ideas .
the Cold Cranking Amp figure is irrevalent as this battery doesn't have to drive a ICE starter motor
Hi Andrew Thanks for your great videos. I'm an oldy and have bought a Kia eNiro 4 last July. Very pleased with it (my first EV).
Concerning this battery issue. Looking at the Kia manual it says the battery is based on cadmium not lead acid.
Well if it is a nickel cadmium battery then it should NEVER be totally discharged as this will damage the battery!!
Why didn't Kia use a standard 40 amp hour lead acid battery. These can be discharged totally without damage and will stand
many charge/ discharge cycles, after all we been using lead acid batteries in cars for many, many years!!
Thanks again for your entertaining and informative videos
Cheers
JBP
John, this is just a guess but I think it is the main battery that is Cadmium, the 12 volt is probably Lead !
There is no way any of the the battery's Is based on cadmium that much be a translation error more than likely its a calcium battery which is a newer type of lead acid that self discharged less.
Good luck with the move, looking forward to seeing videos analysing charging the car with solar!
I am going through the Solar panel testing now. I have had 6 Months Solar experience and just purchased 2022 KIA NIRO . The car is great, except for this 12 volt battery issue, I will post my experience ! I had 150 % of my previous 2 year history of electricity usage . So the 50% over capacity should be enough to keep my KIA charged. My Panels generate 240 Volts and 40 AMPS of power ! I am hoping to be fueled and driving on SUN power !
Wowzers, 2 years already!
Good luck with the move. The countryside around here is gorgeous, you won't regret it. Which area are you going to? We're in Boughton and there are definitely fewer seagulls! They do bowl up onto the rec when the tide is in but they're the quiet ones thank goodness 😂
Been fascinating watching your 12v trials, not boring at all, cheers. 👍
YeY! Finally a new battery! 🤗 Looking forward for the solar charged e-Niro...;)
This battery is no more! It has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-BATTERY
Have you see the 2022 Ioniq 5 has a 350Kw DCFC, 10% to 80% in 18mins? They also ditched LG Chem for SK! So like the Kia Niro it might not burn up. The hour it takes us now, this sounds like a God sent.
Seen it. Want it. May get it!
ruclips.net/video/Jy2VDs3ZeM0/видео.html
I didn't hear about the change in battery supplier. Great news!
The real problem is that the OEM's are using standard car batteries for this, but they are designed to crank engines and be used at every start. EV 12V is never stressed, so you need a storage rather than a cranking battery. This could be a NiMh or Lithium battery, or a recreational lead acid. It needs an intelligent battery management system.
You said your battery monitor showed the old battery as fine until you tried starting the car. If that's the case even if the eNiro properly monitored the battery it wouldn't know to charge it.
I agree a mixture of more regular top-ups plus monitoring would be good.
It’s insane that Kia doesn’t change to better 12V batteries. And when driving with led drl during daytime the charge voltage is between 12-13V which is ridiculous and doesn’t put juice into the battery. It just barely keeps the battery alive 🪫
I wonder is the battery a standard car battery or is it a leisure battery? The standard car battery is designed for short, high amperage discharges to start the engine. EV's won't discharge them in this way. I think a better option would be a leisure battery, these are designed for long, low amperage discharges, like what you would expect from an EV.
Yes I agree with you, as a motorhome’r I have both, leisure batteries for habitation and normal for starter motor. The leisure battery is designed for slow discharge. However no battery should be discharge more that 50% and less maybe 60-70% if possible. I think Mr EV is right though, the maintaining of his 12 volt battery is poor and needs and update. I’ve the latest E Niro 4+ so hope this problem has been resolved, I did own an Hyundai Kona Electric for nearly 2 year without any problems.
Are you thinking of an AGM battery?
@@danielbrodard a standard battery is designed to supply a large amount of current for a short duration while a leisure battery is designed to provide a low current over a long duration. AGM technology can be configured to operate as either.
Slow discharging can destroy standard batteries (AGM's less so) but, liesure batteries trive on it. As the 12v in an EV is only providing low amperage to power the ancillary equipment it stresses a standard battery so you will have a greater failure rate
Hope all is well Andrew, not heard from you in a while. I was expecting a Kia ev6 video from yourself.
My experience of calcium batteries (albeit with ford), is that they are terrible! Especially on vehicles prone to flat batteries. Swap to a bosch with a 5 year warranty, no more problem. Best of luck!
My Kia Niro EV 2019 battery just died.. just barely under the 3-year warranty period since I bought it in 2020. Hopefully Kia dept here in "the states" will replace my battery without hassle... They told me they will need to test the battery along with the car to confirm it's dead, though last time I checked my battery measured 4.5V, so I think it's pretty much dead. Will need to recharge it so it can drive for about an hour to a Kia dealership. Alas.
It is interesting that Kia replaced your 12V battery no charge, my dealer said it was a prorata price to replace it and I was not going to pay for another crap 12V from Kia. I bought a larger capacity AGM battery and so far it is great. Have a good move! 😎
A larger battery will take more charge in the same time, as well as being bigger capacity wise to start. It looked from the previous video that the DC to DC was working. A discharge testing of the battery would give the answer to its health. They will have a test routine to follow.
And it goes in April!
Are 12-volts not covered under a two year warranty in Canada then? I’d have got an AGM one too if I was keeping the car - it makes so much more sense. Glad it’s working well for you so far!
@@MrEV unfortunately the warranty on the 12V is prorata so I would have paid a portion of the new Kia battery and I was not having any of that 😎
What is the model you put on? I would also like to put in AGMs but they are all too big. Please name them! Thank you
After our 3rd fail of our (less than a year old) Kia Soul 12V battery, I've got to get it back to the dealers on Monday (they've previously said it's all fine, so wouldn't replace). RAC said bad cell, needed replacing. Any ideas what I need to say to them to make sure it's checked in a way it will show the fault? I suspect, once the car is jump started, the 30 min drive there charges it up. Thanks so much for your videos, glad we're not the only ones with 12V woes!
Great they fixed it for you !
Thanks, the car goes back in April , what next ??
Fiat 500e. Maybe! ruclips.net/video/ESuT8Ct1iOM/видео.html
Am having exactly this problem. Died once jumped by AA and dealer said there was no problem. Serviced the following week and here we are two weeks later and died again. No lights on nothing plugged in. Typically just over two years old so will no doubt try and make me pay for a new battery (if they admit there is a problem at all!) any advice greatly appreciated
if you go on kia connect and start climate control the 12v will instantly start charging from the main battery.saw this on bjorns site it got me out of a sticky situation and a couple of minutes like this will give you enough juice to start up
Told them about it and they said nothing is wrong. I am going back
Hi Andrew, I hope the battery problem is now sorted. Any idea what the replacement car will be?
Also, what colour is the new house??
Fiat 500e I think! ruclips.net/video/ESuT8Ct1iOM/видео.html
The new house is standard brick and will stay that way. I hope!
@@MrEV "I don't like it!!!"
This is not just an EV issue. The garage I use for my MOT and Service has said that since lockdown they have had lots of battery issues and stuck brakes and clutches. Cars are designed with a fairly narrow use case and covid lockdown wasn't high on the agenda for the last hundred years of car development. The point is you need to drive your car reqularly and for a minimum of fifteen minutes per start otherwise you will deplete the 12v battery (electric, petrol and diesel) although I can't speak for hydrogen :-) I have a number of cars and during lockdown I seemed to spend all my time looking after bleedin 12v battery issues. Leaf,BMW(s) and Audi. In the end I bought solar panels for each car that sit on the dash and I haven't had any problems since.
That's true but I'd had to jump start the 12v several times long before lockdown.
Interesting about the panels. They actually work then? I do have one; I should have tried it but assumed we didn't have enough sun in the UK recently to make much difference.
@@MrEV yes the panels work even in winter. I have a 20amp and a 10amp , in winter this equates to 1 and 2 amp but it is just enough to keep the battery happy when the car is idle.
All your videos are great. The 12v system sucks. Glad it was replaced under warranty. We just need your wife to comment on the situation. 😁
Is this exclusively a eNiro problem or is this also happening on the hybrid models? If I get a dashcam hardwired, would this risk depleting the battery completely? I have a hybrid.
Hello Andrew, I'm from Colombia and I have a similar problem with the 12v batery, but it's locaded under the back seat.
Can I contact U to know how kia solve your problem?
A bit off topic, do you have any recommendations as to the best wall box I can buy please Andrew? Thanks.
12V batteries ...
1) All cars have battery drain when a car is off - as it runs the security systems as a minimum, and more recently it runs internet connectivity.
2) ICE cars fail to start in the morning.
3) Electric cars can either charge their 12V battery all the time (the Tesla is best known - it is call phantom drain), some cars do not and only charge the 12V battery when the car is on - like the ID3 - the best known.
4) You cannot see 12 battery drain in ICE cars - your car fails to start. You cannot see battery drain on EV's that do NOT constantly charge their batteries, you can only see this as phantom drain on cars that do turn "on" the traction battery and top up the 12V battery . ICE cars and EV's that don't charge the 12V battery all the time don't have phantom traction battery drain - but will see the same problem as ICE car owners - their car does not start and the battery is destroyed. The "phantom-drain" is replaced with lower mpg (miles/kWh) when the 12V is charged.
5) If there is a 100mAh/day on a battery then a typical 12V battery will last only 2-5 days before becoming flat. We have seen that a lot of new EV cars are more "connected" and "clever" but this means they will have larger 12V drain. Nothing is free. Older EV will last a few weeks (like ICE cars) as they don't have smart features. If they put smart features on ICE cars, then all hell will occur as you cannot charge a 12V battery on an ICE car when it is off. (ICE cars have a different battery - for massive crank currents - EV's use deep cycle batteries - do NOT use the wrong sort).
6) 12V batteries exist on EV cars because - you don't want 400V behind your dash board, all standard electrical components are designed to work at 12V and traction batteries are turn off when the car is off for safety reasons.
7) Lead acid 12V batteries are used, not any form of Lithium battery because - they are robust, don't need expensive battery management systems, but most importantly, cope better than Lithium with constant charge/discharge cycles, have low internal resistance which means you can have a cheap charger (alternator in ICE) and the battery will prevent voltage rise on the 12V system. A 12V battery is constantly under charge discharge cycles, far more than your traction battery - even if you plug in your traction battery every day it would still last 10 years or much more (it has an expensive battery management system). A 12V battery undergoes 10-20 charge cycles a day - so you can see a Lithium battery would only last about 6 months, and that is exactly what people find when they try this.
I am afraid you just hit the 2-3 year 12V battery replacement point for smart connected cars (it is not an EV thing, it is a - smart features that put more load and charge cycles on the 12V system problem). It is good that Hyundai have increased the charge cycle on their cars as this will help. In 2 years, you will know what to do - just get a new battery.
Have you decided what your next car is going to be? I was looking for the video you made about it
The discussion with my wife is here: ruclips.net/video/ESuT8Ct1iOM/видео.html
We have a deposit down for the Fiat 500e but a proper e-Niro replacement? No idea yet! I need to show the IONIQ 5 to my wife. 😬
@@MrEV The current 500 still being made apparently so maybe check 500 e being launched as planned.
@@MrEV yes that new ionic looks incredible it might be good for you timewise yes? I know your wife likes big boxy vehicles but hopefully she will like the ionic five I think it looks awesome
@@MrEV "Why are you showing me something that is not available?" ;)
@@MrEV I do enjoy watching your wife torture you, haha. Better you than me haha i’m not sure why people lease vehicles so much unless you are rich and never want to build equity. Seems like renting a house instead of buying one it’s hard to ever get a head. I’m sure Financials are just different over here. But in America if you keep a high credit score and are smart and not too picky you should be able to drive cars for free, that’s EVs right now because of incentives.
Happy u got it sorted. So when this car goes back....what then? Another ev?
Definitely another EV! I'm not changing the channel name to Mr. Hybrid. Although that sounds cooler.
We'll probably get the Fiat 500e.
ruclips.net/video/ESuT8Ct1iOM/видео.html
@@MrEV haha Mr hybrid I'm not so keen on haha. Good luck with the move. 👍
Unrelated, but how are you finding the new software update? I've heard a lot of negative things about it over the previous version.
Kia didn't update it for me and I haven't done it myself. I was tempted to but I didn't want to risk getting in trouble since it's a lease!
Its not unlikely that the new Kia battery is better in some ways. Deep cycle batteries are often lower in A rating as far as I know. So it could be more hardy but a bit less powerful, cranking Amps is not really useful in an EV anyway ;)
This IS interesting. Partly because it shouldnt happen. Best of luck with the move
(impressed with the myenergi wall charger even though I have yet to get solar panels. Don't know what you are considering. Maybe worth a video - lol)
Yes, Zappi is at the top of my list!
@@MrEV please make sure you purchase version 2 as that has pen fault detection ..... Andrew they are the only ones that are safe to use .... do they give you the option of purchasing the car at the end of the lease period
Andrew, with Hyundai replacing all the Kona high power batteries have you any idea if there is a potential problem in the Kia .....have they mentioned it or have you ask anyone ?
No, the e-Niro uses batteries from SK Innovation. It’s LG’s batteries with the fault.
@@MrEV ah, according to Elektrek , LG - the future makers of Tesla’s 4680 batteries. Fingers crossed.
I have not followed your 12v saga from beginning. But you have a Nero without internet connection and app. You did a "upgrade" with OVMS to get app support. I am almost shure this nice upgrade killed your 12V battery. The power consumption of complete OVMS is ~ 1 W. Your 12V 44 Ah battery can deliver ~ 500 Wh
The "upgrade" will completely draw your fully charged battery in ~ 500 h / 20 days. This is all on the sunny side situation! And indeed if you deep charge a mediocre lead acid battery once it could be end of story indeed.
The power consumption of good car electronics in low power mode for app support could be 0.2 W or less. The strategy of charging the 12V battery should be done on continuies monitoring and charging, the 2020 Nero doesn't have that! The electronics should be of the level of state of the art (Mobile) electronics, OVMS is certainly not!
I don't wanna scare you off with your Tesla fantasy, but Tesla has also poor electronics hardware. The power consumption of the electronics is > 200W!!!! The famous vampire drain. The so called iPad on wheels is actually a 2005 Windows tablet with a Intel Athom processor running with a Linux distribution. The 12V battery is constantly charged from the high volt battery. Common problem is often that after a completely discharged high volt battery you get a bonus depletion of the 12V battery! And because soo many features of the car (door opening!)are electromechanical, its full of supprises!!!😀😯
Your battery had no charge, Kia replaced it with no charge, so now you are where you started.
Looks like a Hyundai Iconiq 5 for you.
Good luck with the move ! I found a good app for predicting solar forecast best way I’ve seen so far after trying 3-4 weather apps check out pv forecast it’s got a free version but well worth the few p a day I think ! If you got decent size solar array get a solar ev charger then you can charge the ev from the sun ! Like zappi or project ev charger!
Do you lease or pcp your car?
It’s leased through my company directly from Kia.
@@MrEV do you think you will do the same again?
Andrew, do you say ‘do you know who I am’ when you go in? I think bring a you tuber these days carries some clout. So what’s your next car from April?
I can't imagine ever saying that! 😀
Fiat 500e seems most likely. We have a deposit down for one and my wife likes it so that's most of the battle! ruclips.net/video/ESuT8Ct1iOM/видео.html
Will the UK look like the next Planet of the Apes after covid...keep up the electric car vids. More of the wifes sister. Only joking!!! Well not really.
Hope you are feeling well after the mini stroke. Take care.
At last!
I think it you its not designed to have obd plug in all the time it use power small yes
It talks to on board computer that use power
Put over 8 hr it adds up
Then you got battery manger plug in again it use power small put it adds up
I read by others they left the obd plug in and it kill the battery
All the people that had problems use gadgets plug in all the time
My 64k e nero i only been drive 1 mile to teasco 1 mile back once a week
And have no problem
I got no gadgets plug in not going to
Once you kill the battery a cell go down then problems double
I've heard of many e-Niro owners who've had failures even without anything plugged-in but yes, my problems were certainly kickstarted by having OVMS in the OBD-II port.
12vgate continues
I like to think the gate has been closed now.
@@MrEV Glad they replaced the 12v battery. Maybe there will not be a sequel as the battery issue looks to be resolved. We’re okay with a sequel if required.
@@MrEV more 12vgate: ruclips.net/video/l2E7gF0Dx3g/видео.html
Time for a Tesla. They have figured out how to make great electric vehicles.
It also has the highest safety rating. Something for a family to think about.
Ha! The 12V battery in my brother-in-law’s Model 3 died in the first 2 years with no warning. Fortunately Tesla came out to the house to replace it for him, but they offered no explanation beyond “they just die sometimes. It’s not uncommon.”
People always hook shit up to their battery to monitor their battery and it ends up killing their battery. Moral of the story leave the battery alone
The little battery monitor only draws 1.5mA. OVMS - the thing that was plugged-in ages ago - drew much more, but then it has a modem inside it and was much more sophisticated.