Does traction control hurt you in sand?
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- Опубликовано: 24 дек 2023
- TURN OFF THE ELECTRONICS IN SAND you'll hear people say. And that's partially true. The fact is that modern cars have multiple "traction control" programs, some of which help in sand, some hinder. This video explains the differences.
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what really sucks is every car has a different name for traction control and all they put on dash is a button in hieroglyphics of a swerving car. no info even to say on or off you have to hunt around to find indicator light that does not say on or off just esc you get to guess if it means on or off.
Yes true but in recent years there has been a convergence to ESC.
On our old Disco 4,with E diff,only ESC could be turned off,Braked TC was on all the time,no problems in the soft sand.Although in the different mode settings,the sensitivity might have varied.Rock crawl seemed to lock everything,and BTC was very aggressive.
Yes Sand Mode de sensitiveness ESC and it can be further reduced but not eliminated with the off switch
Another great short video Robert. I learnt something new today, thanks 😊
Very welcome
Yes, it depends on the car. The hassle is to remember to turn esc back off after a restart. First time, everyone remembers. If it is only a day trip, and if the speed is not going to be more than 40kmph, I prefer low range and forget about esc. If fuel and range pose challenge like crossing Simpson, high range is preferred and can not afford to forget turning off esc.
Thanks Robert. All the best to you for this festive season.
My Jackaroo has no such options. LSD rear and open diff front. Some brake traction control would be nice, but only at ABS in the 2002 model.
Happy holidays!
Also worth mentioning pertaining to Toyota, hard driving on sand with ESC on frequency results in a steering angle sensor fault occurring, with warning light on the dash. Can put car in limp mod. Requires dealer to reset
What sort of Toyota?
MERRY CHRISTMAS
❄️🛐🤶🎅🎄🦌🦌🙏❄️
I had a 1999 Chevy and it couldn’t play in the sand because of stability control so I just unplugged the sensors while I was in Florida
I would add that turning the ESC off (at least in a Land Rover) is the last button to push after all other selections are made as any other change (such as moving into drive) will turn it back on again.
Yes...HDC comes back on too, annoying!
My experience in my 2011 150 Prado over the past 10 years of ownership is that TC absolutely saps power and forward momentum when driving most beach driving situations, I.e. large sand dunes, soft sand etc. The only situation where it works in your favour is front wheel lifting like shown with your ranger demonstration which would be taken at speed anyway.
TC or ESC?
@@L2SFBC BTC, ESC only really engages in similar situations like those shown in your jimny demonstration, but has never bothered me or had any real impact on momentum.
I think this is old argument that new tech is bad but not understanding how to get the most out of it.
For example; there is a lot of opinion about the FJ Cruiser that uses Brakes on the front axle for better traction that it robs power from the system,
I don't think that is really the case as it directs the power back to the wheel that can make use of it as you demonstrated here.
Only issue is that most vehicles there’s only 1 button that turns all on or all off. You can’t usually turn off one without turning all off.
You can
One thing that all of these videos seem to forget is that every car has brake traction control. Keeping a steady even throttle and breaking with the left foot transfers power through the differential.
It will, especially a torque-biasing one, but then you really do sap your momentum. In sand I wouldn't bother with that technique for an open-diffed car.
Thats great info Robert. But I'm also interested in your sand flag, whats the go, it doesn't whip around like every other sand flag?
Because it's properly designed to be sufficiently stiff not to lose 1/3 of its height soon as you move off, yet flexible enough to bend if needs be. It's a 4x4 Equip unit, not sure if they're still made. The ones people normally run are in my view hopeless.
There's a debate on whether using 4L or 4H on sand. You've touched on this issue in one of your videos, but it would be great if you can discuss it in details.
Yes, I've covered exactly that point here ruclips.net/video/K_MdA2pL41A/видео.html essentially use 4L if a max speed for the terrain can be comfortably attained in low.
@@L2SFBCThanks. I’ll check that video 👍
I wouldn't really want to but I don't know of a way to turn off BLD on my Jeep.
To turn off traction control you turn off traction control... To turn off stability control, you long press the traction control for several seconds.
Just for comparison purposes... I wish I could turn off the BLD but I guess I'd have to pull a fuse or something to do that in my jeep. Even when I just crank my Jeep and pull it out of my driveway and don't press any buttons... BLD is ready to go because it's four-wheel drive auto. I can't turn off four-wheel drive either without pulling a fuse.
Maybe I could do it with an OBD program but I haven't tried.
Hmm, maybe is just cause my Jeep is old, (open diffs) but why would u want to disengage the BLD? It's only engaged in 4hi and 4lo on mine and ESC is only engaged in 2hi and 4hi. ESC is automatically turned off in 4lo and since I don't have locking diffs the BLD helps compensate for that. Or maybe I'm not understanding your question?
Wierd thing is on the Jimny JB74, is that you can disable ESC above 40km/h by only be entering ESP Maintenance mode, but that also disables the brake traction control... What is the Jimny setup you recommend for sand?
ESP MM. BTC helps on sand, but ESC is so bad that it's better to disable it if it means also getting rid of that dire ESC. Suzuki should be ashamed of themselves. ruclips.net/video/MHPGaDfCIwo/видео.htmlsi=8G6pT-t0jEqL-IXY
Have done the simpson east to west twice west to east once straight over big red every time,fraser via inskip many times in our 200 all t/c turned off never had a problem. Sand no t/c high range 200 series not a problem.
Did you turn it off or just lock the centre diff?
@@L2SFBC centre diff locked both traction controls turned off
@@L2SFBC In simpson have tyre's at 17 and 19 fraser and most other beaches 22 and 25. The 200 has engine tune 800 n/m with 250 kws and trans has been tuned.
Think that just shows how good the 200's suspension is!
@@L2SFBC old man emu 4015 kg gmv upgrade and loaded to 3950 lots of power very easy to get momentum when it is required. Have been camp at inskip and ran out on the sand spit at road tyre pressures it did it easy.
Thanks, useful video. But per the graphic at 0m20s, Engine Traction Control is not clearly discussed, ie how to turn it off, unless I missed something?
It's part of ESC as is BTC. Cannot be generally disabled in isolation and nor would you need to. Just ESC off.
@@L2SFBC for some unkown reason, my Pajero turns off the brake traction control when the factory rear diff lock is engaged. That leaves the front diff open so it seems like a stupid idea to me. I've installed the TC mod that enables the traction control when the diff lock is engaged and the car is far more capable. Trying to explain the difference between stability control and brake traction control to most 4wders is almost impossible, like talking to monkeys 😊. Nice try here though.
Yes Mike that's common unfortunately...both the car and the understanding 👍
@@L2SFBC "as is BTC"? Are you saying BTC is also part of ETC and cannot be disabled in isolation?
👍👍
Robert, great explanation, thank you. Ford Ranger 2023 (Wildtrack) allows to turn off ESC (hold TC button over 5s) and "traction control" (ford lingo in manual) by pressing (not holding) the same button. And here is what confuses me:
it says: "The traction control system applies the brakes to individual wheels and when needed, reduces engine power at the same time to increase traction."
From this I would assume that "traction control" in Fords lingo mean (ETC - engine traction control) I haven found any mention of BTC in the whole manual.
Does anyone have more insight, does it mean that BTC (as defined in this video) stays on / cannot be turned off or does it turn off by traction control button (single press)?
(I would like to set the car to following configuration: ESC off, ETC off, BTC on). Thanks.
Lock the centre diff if you have a V6, or engage 4WD in the other cars. Then press ESC once if in high range. In low range, ESC and engine traction control are disabled, leaving BTC. This works on all Rangers.
@@L2SFBC Thank you. Most importantly, I found the answer why my car made weird noises driving on the beach at 40km/h (when steering left/right) thanks to your video with the Jimny example. It's the ESC. I did not yet have a chance to test it set off. In Sand mode, Ford Ranger puts the car to 4H with rear diff locked, but leaves the ESC on in the sand mode in new Ranger (weird - why Ford?)
I need to check at next the next occasion how does it perform if I disable ESC manually.
Other than that I had no problem elsewhere off-road (partially because there is no need for super hardcore stuff in my place) and thank you for guidance Robert - but still, I would like to have better understanding and would like to know how the tech is implemented and sadly Ford manual doesn't explain/differentiate between BTC and ETC. How to keep BTC on while ETC off in 4H for best performance.
(I don't want to go to 4L for higher speed beach fun drive. My model is i4, bi-turbo BTW and it has the rear diff lock (sadly no V6 available in Vietnam).
So this leaves part of the question unanswered for anyone who knows, what does traction control button do, does it disable ETC only or both ETC and BTC?
Disables ESC and Engine Traction Control, leaves BTC active unless long-pressed.
@@L2SFBC not sure about old rangers, but according to manual (and tested) on new Ranger (2023) long press disables ESC. Short press disables TC (but not sure if BTC as well).
Hi Robert,
What do you think of the L663 Defender compared to the 300 series, ineos grenadier vs the patrol? do you think its the best overall onroad/offroad dominant 4wd?
Look at my videos on that!
@@L2SFBC We are waiting for more episodes with the patience of a child on Christmas morning.
I have watched them but i was just asking your personal view point on which you like the most@@L2SFBC
Have a read at Unsealed 4x4
Com.au. I've written four articles.
will do thanks!@@L2SFBC
You weren't going up a sand dune in that demo and I've always been told that TC is no good on a dune climb because you need momentum and TC will hold you back. Is that correct or not ?
Correct.
Partially. TC is an umbrella term for multiple traction systems of which BTC and ESC are two. ESC will hold you back. BTC will help. So you want BTC but no ESC. Most 4x4s can do this. Some cannot. Look at my JB74 Jimny sand drive setup video for more.
Given a choice between ESC and BTC or no BTC no ESC you are better off with the latter in most sand drive situations.
OldMate58 told me to pull the fuse out of the traction control. OldMate58 was wrong, again!
Only if that's the only way to disable ESC as it is in the Jimny!
@@L2SFBC My bugbear is that when you turn the terrain response settings on the Discovery 3, it not only re-engaged DSC, but also turns HDC back on to a very low target speed. It's infuriating when you're flipping between Grass/Gravel/Snow and Rock Crawl, for instance. I actually found it more stressful than my Series III because of it.
Yes, Land Rover wisdom...