What is the Straw Man Fallacy? - and how to handle it
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2022
- A Straw man argument is the term given when someone takes something you say and twists it, distorts it and phrases it back exaggerating your original point completely out of context. It is a form of gaslighting and can be a powerful tactic to misrepresent and derail any conversation as you are now focusing on what they claim you said rather than what you actually said. It can also be quite affective at making someone look crazy as people tend to get defensive when being dramatically misrepresented.
In this video Darren Magee outlines some common 'straw manning' tactics and phrases, and looks at some of the kinds of people who use this tactic and their different reasons. Also looking at different examples of straw man arguments, and ways to handle these kinds of conversations.
Other videos you might find interesting:
Gaslighting • Gaslighting - Emotiona...
Recognising Gaslighting Tactics, stages and Phrases
• Recognising Gaslightin...
Please feel free to suggest any topics you might like me to cover in future videos.
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#strawman #sowhatyou'resayingis #darrenmagee
![CRITICAL THINKING - Fallacies: Straw Man Fallacy [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hfil34ayaEU/mqdefault.jpg)
My favorite way of shutting people down when they try to straw man me is to respond, with no emotion, "No, what did I actually say?" In most cases, the person trying to straw man me just gives up and leaves the conversation. It has saved me so much mental and emotional strain.
Recently, a friend offered to come over and help me with something; but when he arrived, it was obvious that he was already worked up about an interaction with his sister, and was using the opportunity to take out his frustrations on me.
After an hour of him twisting and distorting everything I said, until I felt like screaming or throttling him, I just politely asked him to go home. Although he wouldn't admit it, I think he understood why. He looked slightly sheepish as he left.
As somebody with a passion for truth and effective communication, it hurts my brain trying to grasp that some people strategicaly break conversation to shut down truth.
Agree
that's a fucking good one dude XD@@mrmines2000
"Why are you adding emotionally-charged non-sequiturs to what I just said?" is what I have asked when this happens. It usually stops them dead in their tracks with a blank stare.
Love it 😀
Yeah, when you call out trolls with educated comebacks they are at a loss…
*taking notes*
Good one! I might give that one a try
They love doing that. But arguing online is the biggest waste of time ever. A waste of words. Pretty much the opposite to good poetry.
My neighbor tried to do this to me the other day. I repeated my answer to her, and told her I had nothing else to say. She stormed off and I haven't seen her since. :) Thank God for channels like this because I've learned and continue to learn things I should have learned in school.
I've experienced this and I've seen journalist 'straw man' their guest.
It's a sneaky way to cause doubt, distort the facts and redirect the conversation. How like a narcissist to avoid responsibility and accountability for their actions. I can see politicians using this tactic to destabilize/confuse their opponents. Thank you Darren for an excellent video!
The Coverts do this! They become the “victim,” you, the “bad guy.” Thank you for the tips on how to handle these situations.
Truths!!
The last one is by far the most effective in my own experiences.
Asking "Did I say that?"
"You implied it"
"Did I? Why don't you repeat to me what I actually said."
If they try to give me any other answer than what I said, then I'll ask them to try again.
If they still don't, I'll repeat it one more time. And then either terminate the conversation or
If they do answer back correctly, I'll say okay so go from there, what's the issue?
Yesss... exactly how I would do it
Extremely good way of responding
After many years of this tactic being used against me, the only way I have managed to shut down the escalation is to repeat (the broken record approach) my key point with no emotion. It happened today, for example, with someone trespassing on the historical site insisting that he be allowed to look round at the ancient ruins. I did not counter that in any way, I just repeated "This is private property and I am asking you politely to leave" no matter what his comeback. I did not react in any way and just repeated the statement three times no matter what came out of his mouth. On the third time, I just said it again and walked away. He left the site. The answer is to be bland, to show no emotion, to state the fact each time and not to respond in any way by getting embroiled in their way of thinking. He starts by saying "Oh, I am so glad you are here. Can you tell me where the ancient castle ruins are on the site?" "This is private property and I am asking you politely to leave." "I know the ruins are here and I want to see them because I have come a long way and I---" "This is private property and I am asking you politely to leave." "Look, I know they are here and this is---" "This is private property and I am asking you politely to leave." Works a treat. Try it yourself!
Well said! The key is to respond rather than react. And when you do respond, you do so on your own terms.
Really good method! I had a new next door neighbor come over daily sometimes at 7am. One evening she was in my house asking me for things. She was following me into the bedrooms as i was busy. I finally repeated " thank you" "thank you, "" t.y." as i walked toward her ushering her out. She left and thankfully wouldn't talk to me again.
A form of grey rocking. Thank you
I think when we do that over and over it makes it look stupid that’s horrible to say that but it almost does seem like it’s not sinking into them it’ll still go other ways and it’s a hot train wreck.
I told someone that they need to ask questions instead of assuming because awls it does is get them really upset and I’m sitting over here thinking why are you so upset so I show no emotion let them know it doesn’t bother me but it’s just getting them all distraught maybe they need to rethink their approach.
@@Portia620 That is what a narcissist would say. " you sound STUPID" . SO WE respond. "THANK YOU, now have a good day , " this is private property. " goodbye.
Anymore problem, call the police.
This is a great video because this can be so irritating. I like the tip about asking directly, "What did I actually just say?" Thank you, Darren! My favorite way to handle this is to ask them "How did you arrive at that conclusion?" when they try to twist my words or make an outlandish statement concerning my character or behavior.
Thank you for sharing 👍
How did you arrive at that conclusion is emotionless with a sense of caring in it.....nice one.
@elliotsober7042 Thanks, hope it works well for you. 😊
To try to understand the gaslighthing and the word salad and other circular reasonning of a narcissists I know, I followed an advice: I reccorded and transcripted the conversation once. It was so helpfull to me as I was able to clearly identify each of the emotionnal tactics used. It's so difficult to do this live in the middle of the heat.
Most of it was more about culpabilizing me at every turn that it was about anything else. Most of the "arguments" were actually quite vague and the narcissist over-interpretates and over-exagerates almost everything. As usual, the "conversation" led no where. The goal was just to unload the narcissist's emotional rubbish and makes me feel bad about nothing, everything and its contrary.
Yes, just had this experience with a longtime friend, recently. I think he hates his life and hates himself; and therefore he sometimes finds it perversely satisfying to twist someone else into knots, making someone else feel stupid or crazy. I'm putting more distance between us, at least temporarily.
Every single fight was a nightmare.
I’d say something like “I need you to try to calm down, you’re interrupting everything I say so my message isn’t coming across and you’re not hearing me.”
He’d say “Oh so now I’m a monster!?? What the F is wrong with you?! This is f’ed up, YOU started this fight and now you’re making me yell!”
I can’t fully wrap my head around what happened in those fights, just that I’d always be the one apologizing and trying to make things better and he’d have already gone off the deep end.
Never in my life did I feel the need to record a conversation to prove who said what or what was true until this relationship. If I had recorded it though, he’d have flipped out so hard and while he never actually did it, I always felt that he would destroy me if needed because I became his full blown enemy in arguments.
I find it really difficult not to become stressed when under rapid fire gaslighting from a someone with strong narc traits. My sister does this straw man thing with me a lot, and fast with aggression. I've reached the point where I don't engage or share my views as the anxiety makes it impossible to think clearly and to be able formulate any kind of response. On another topic entirely, I'm loving how you've painted your ceiling the same colour as the walls. It's so effective with a sloping ceiling. I've been thinking about doing that in my bedroom with a denim blue. I was scared it might be too dark but it looks exactly the way I'd pictured it might look, like a cosy den. Thanks for the decor inspo as well as finally understanding the straw man argument.
Thank you, and thank you 👍
Thank you for this! As of late I feel very confused. I agree it is like gaslighting. Yet. Now I know what has been going on for me is Straw mannng. You also have given me a tool so that I can HELP myself!!
After a 20 year relationship with a narcissist, I can say for sure, "Don't go down that rabbit hole!!!!" As SOON AS you feel your point is being altered somehow, DON:T DEFEND YOURSELF!! That's how they get you! It sucks your energy, but put them on the spot IMMEDIATELY! You need to say, " It's very odd to me that you've drawn that conclusion from what I've said, can you please explain how exactly you came to that conslusion from what I said? It;s clear to me that you have either misunderstood me, or you are intentionally trying to put me on the defensive, and i have nothing to defend. I said what i said, and i meant what I said. If you need clarification, I'll be hapy to clarify when i feel that you are willing to listen to me honestly. otherwise, this is just your typical technique for getting your way, again, without taking me or my feelings into account. Forget it, buddy. " Then I leave the room, or the house, or I redirect my focus on something else. If he follows me around I say, "Please leave me alone. I don;t want to talk to you right now. You are unreasonable and you are being selfish and childish. I said leave me alone, please. If you want to talk to me, you have to prove to me first taht you are actually hearing what I am saying without trying to twist it. From now on, when you are "twisting" my words, i will simply say this "That's a twist"!
Get away from them if you can. They need long-term counselling to care about themselves before they can ever care about you.
@@kashmm Oh it's much more complicated than that. Next month will be my 50th wedding anniversity. I am an elderly woman now.
@@kashmm And telling you that. Causes me to feel ashamed.
@@lesliedefilippis2150 better late than never it took me 7 years to get away from my narcissistic abuser I lost the prime of life to it but I feel better now.
One of my husband’s three key techniques, along with word salad and both-siding. Sometimes, he’ll put all three together in an angry tsunami of etymology-based illogic, to which I have to listen in respectful silence.
If I try to question what he’s saying or ask for clarification, as suggested here, he accuses me of not understanding English. This is an extra dig because I hold an English Lit and Lang degree.
You have one life ...why are you with someone who trys to destroy you from inside
@@juliehornsby9671 because I have no resources and two sons to support, basically.
@@clogs4956 try not taking anything he says personally ,that way he'll think he's destroying you ...but you know he can't get to you , just let him think he's right and hopelky over the years you'll figure out an escape plan and come away with not too much damage .. Good luck
@@clogs4956 I’m SO sorry. I’ve gone through a similar situation. There was no help, no escape. I just had to wait until my kids were grown.
-My advice is to prepare. Secret away whatever you can. Escape is expensive, even without children involve. And don’t lose hope.
-The affirmation that kept me sane during it all was “I am enough.” I would repeat it silently to myself while under attack, and say it aloud in the mirror when alone. It counters everything the abuser can throw your way, and will help his jabs to miss their mark.
-For me It made his attacks HIS problem not mine without me having to defend myself. It reduced some of the stress.
-My prayers are with you.
@clogs4956 that's a poor excuse to not leave. My mom said the same and I don't associate with her or her family anymore, your mileage may vary
My comeback is: "I'm worried about what it is that you heard me saying. Could you please tell me what it is that you're hearing?" Then, if it is misleading etc; I respond assertively, "Ok, now that I understand what you have heard, I'm going to tell you what I actually have said."
By the way - your contribution to mental health awareness and healing is simply lovely... Keep spreading the message.
Another great video, Darren. Misdirection was a frequent tactic used by the narc in my last relationship. I 've never been so misquoted so much before. And I did not know how to handle it well. I'll keep an eye out here for suggestions from other targeted folk that may work.
Me neither!!! I have learned so much from Darren! The other so called experts on the internet don’t really teach practical ways to deal with this behavior nor ways to see it!!! Sooo important!
One of my thankfully estranged siblings did this to us for decades. I never fell for it because “Daddy warned me about it” but our mom is very timid and easily frightened.
Additionally there are one too many people who engage in this dysfunctional misconduct in the work environment. They are both exhausting and counterproductive, often costing departments and projects thousands of dollars/pounds worth of losses, through their inability to prioritise the company’s objectives over their ego.
My now passed brother in law would practice trying to fence you into some predetermined corner with nearly every conversation.He aways needed it to reflect his superior intelligence. Nearly every tactic you illustrated he used.His obituary described him as a "sparkling conversationalist".
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
🤦😆
This video reminded me of arguments with my ex. I remember how confusing and frustrating they were, and now I better understand why. I think I will be better prepared for this kind of thing if I encounter it again in the future. Thank you!
Soo glad you got out ...other people stay too long
husband and wife at a restaurant. wife: I saw you take a glimpse at the lady on the opposite table.
husband: you don't trust me anymore?
This is what I've been missing - how it gets from me calmly stating "A" only to wind up at point "C" - tongue tied, with my stutter back, exasperated, trying to defend myself against an insinuation, that I am quite an inferior specimen and possibly violently crazy and ruminating over how it happened.
In the latest iteration, before I saw this video, I reported a small problem at work. My boss responded, and got back to what I was doing. But her boss then confronted me (alone) and said 'you seem to have a problem resisting change'. After that, she took it further, and put it out there that she is the victim of my emotional outburst. Now I have to take classes she assigned in 'emotional intelligence'. I might just retire.
I have learned when someone says "So what you're saying is ..." or "So what I'm hearing is ..." to say to them "No, that is what YOU'RE saying. What I said was ..." and then repeat the original point.
Do this as many times S necessary. Practice!!!
Thanks Darren and I'm about to watch this now with my coffee ☕🤗 Best wishes and have a lovely day too ❤️☀️
This sounds so much like both of my younger sisters! I tried repeating myself to adnauseum and it didn’t work. I finally decided I had enough and don’t talk to them anymore.
Don;t allow yourself to become emotionally reactive with these tactics. I found it's better to laugh. Then i say something like, "OK Explain to me exactly how you made THAT assumption out of what I said! " Ha ! HA! Ha! Too funny!!!!
Humour destroys the Narcissist. I learnt this as a young boy. I have taken many beatings for this. I turn the other cheek
Darren I cracked up laughing when you said about the part where make them aware how the point they just made is the one you made in the first place because this happened me online 😂 I made a comment about something I believe in only for a random troll to aggressively come on and attack and twist my words. In fact, they made a very similar comment to mine in one of their own comment threads which I found odd they disagreed with mine but I think they felt jealous and undermined someone else like me came along with the same thought and of course being the nasty narcissistic troll they were had to rain over my comment 😅 pathetic and trolls need to find something better to do with their time instead of attacking others! Use your haters as motivators as the quote says. Thanks again Darren and best wishes ☀️
I thought I was crazy for so many years. Time and again my words were manipulated in every way possible. I have learned so much from this channel. My broken heart hurts more and more. I don’t want to believe any of this was intentional 😢
Awesome vid. Thank you! Sadly in my family this is just called having a conversation. 🥴
Ty Darren for another great video. Darren could you please explain to me why a narcissist feels the need while being verbally agressive and abusive to beat their own chest and shout out how good a man he is, and no man could do anything as good as him and how grateful I should be when I would dare to contradict or go against his opinion or judgement. It would happen all the time when I would suggest that we get a professional workman in to do a job that clearly needed a professional to repair. This is where as you said in this video I'd get the "oh your a professional roofer now, etc". I lost my confidence in living!
I made a video on motivations and beliefs of you find those helpful?
Why are you still there ...you have one life ...leave and be happy you will never understand because that behavior is designed to make you not understand so you appear stupid then they win 💯
I didn't know this type of interaction is called Straw Man argument, but omgoodness did my bf use this all the time, esp at the beginning of the relationship. I thought he was the dumbest person I had ever met, like how can you possibly glean that from what I said?? All manipulation.
Been there, done that. Narcissists do this so easily and quickly, it just boggles the mind. Drives us non NPD people NUTS! i am constantly asking him to repeat what I just said verbatim, and he can NEVER do it! EVER. Or if we go round and round, sometimes for HOURS, he will finally on the 6th, 7th, 8th try (sometimes more) begrudgingly repeat what I said, just to get me off his back and because it has become so obvious what he is doing. But I never knew what he did had a term or name, just that it was maddening beyond belief!!! This is a very helpful video! Thanks you!
Yes. My spouse would do this and I didn’t know what was happening. He also did it in reverse. When I would call out something messed up that he said, he would pretend like I was extracting different meaning from
What was intended. He would say I was straw manning him. But this was something he frequently did.
I was so confused all of the time. I figured I was just a terrible person and tried not to complain until (accidentally) some of these things came up in therapy and I was given some new insight on these tactics. Ultimate this what ended my marriage. He took something that I said and twisted it to mean I was directly insulting his mental health ( I was talking about my own mental health and feeling frustrated) he kept pushing me a corner demanding to apologize. I handled this poorly. This happened on top of a series of very traumatic events for me and I just shutdown and refused to engage in arguments. There was a third party witness so I thought I’m not going to defend myself. someone else heard what I said and the context. Instead, he said to me “ that person isn’t here so it didn’t matter that there were witnesses.
I told him to believe what he wanted…. And he did and took steps to destroy my life and reputation.
Thank you so much for sharing something that must be difficult to talk about, just know your experience may have been more common than you knew at the time. I dealt with this crazy-making tactic with a spouse for years, such a waste of time and energy. I believe your story is very helpful!
Sorry to hear what you've been through with ...they always smear you ,they do it even when you're with them ,your health and we'll being will get better once you realise that people who can be easily swayed to believe what been said about you, shouldn't have a place in your life anyways and the toxic person just helped you notice the bad apples
I hope your life is back on track. I’d say if it wasn’t that conversation, it would have been another. Have an awesome life!
@@elkekirkpatrick6481 thank you for your kind words. It’s been a great comfort to know that I’m not alone. I hope you are living the life you were meant to live on the other side of this kind of abuse.🌺
@@juliehornsby9671 thank you for the encouragement. 🌺 I believe you are right, all of this has been very revealing…not just about him but others.
Excellent resource. I couldn't answer anything to his liking because of this tactic of verbally annihilating everything I said . So with no skills I just would answer off the wall. Going back years for me. Why are you divorcing me? Me, I want to square dance. Its all i had, or get devoured.
Oh, this is very helpful for something I'm currently dealing with, perfect timing, thank you so much!
My cousin has actually changed sides in an argument against me and kept arguing. Just pointless abuse
Thank you so much for doing this videos. I learn something new every day. Knowledge is power.
Awesome info. Explained in an easy to understand way.
It can be uncertain if the misrepresentation is deliberate or accidental
I have a close friend whom I've known for decades, who just started doing this within the past few years. It's curious how he didn't do it in the past, but only just started recently. Maybe it was because I began disagreeing with him on politics, but he does it now when we aren't even discussing politics. In fact, I try really hard to avoid that topic with him anymore.
Straw manning? New concept! Thanks always need to know new things.
I have dealt with this often!
Thanks. Excellent advice that’s easy to remember.
It is new term to learn. Clarity and consistency is very important to deal with confusion and inconsistency effectively.
Mind games at the highest level. The person gets a high by doing this and gets in your head
Hey Darren,. Yep, Discuss the Intense Evil Leering Stares these these Terrible Creatures use for Intimidation
I said to him, “how you know me, and how you diagnosed me? You even didn’t see me one hour, one day, you don’t know me at all, and you said that I am borderline?” And then he get angry,.
Fascinating...my ex used2do this to me in arguments esp restating and changing my point and I was often accussed of claiming I was a scientific expert because I dared question my doctors treatment of my severe allergies and auto immune illness. I am very well educated and most importantly I'm entitled to my opinion of my medical care....do u know more than a doctor so? I was often asked? I got used2that claim... that I was saying I was an expert. I was NOT entitled to an opinion of my medical treatment. Also his daughter used to do what you mentioned to him when she wanted money...quilting him saying 'so you want the baby to starve do you?' ....knowing he would b guilted by this ludicrous scenario....all lies anyway as she had lots of money which she spent always on herself
The situation where you were questioning your doctors course of treatment may have indeed been a case of you using the the appeal to authority logical fallacy. More specifically, the Ipse dixit (Latin for “he himself said it”). This would indeed be the case if you, having no medical training, believed an expert to be wrong simply because you read somehow contrary to their opinions or you simply knew better because “you know your body better than anyone “. You are holding an opinion that is in contradiction to the general consensus by experts in that field and your dissenting opinion is based on anything less than the research and analyzing used by those to form their consensus.
Did you date my ex because he was in my end of town now he’s dating somebody from Texas but he goes to many different states!!??? He left me when I got sick I had two kids married for a long time now he’s picked up some other woman that sell for in line sink and hooker in Dallas and I feel sorry for the last girl I sent flowers to his brother-in-law‘s younger sister and she’s a social worker and couldn’t see he was narcissistic!! They can steal money hide things have multiple affairs not give a crap about their own blood (kids).
It’s sad to know that they never truly are ever happy and they expect other people to do it for them. I feel worse for the women that get involved with my ex because he did some really unethiczl and immoral things.
Even stole money from
My account! A federal offense. Mine was definitely a ConMan and I’m sure the girl he’s with now has something he wants because I don’t prey on losers. He hates heavyset women too but they will do anything and lie to people and trim like crap later he did that with his last tax bother an exercise machine he said it wasn’t really because she couldn’t lose the weight as to why he left her! 🤦♀️. She was starting her own company I guess it didn’t work out so he prays upon people like I said.
@BasketballFan Respect ✊ to you my friend. After the last 3 years of in your face corruption by Big pHarma.
Anyone still trusting Allopathic Petrochemical ‘Medicine’ has lost all capacity for critical thinking & respect for body autonomy.
There is ZERO proof of any ‘pathogenic virus’.
Virology is turtles all the way down.
That includes HIV and BS19 (only exists in silico)
It’s all about installing fear
... Narcissism on the macro scale 👁
This is happening to me RIGHT NOW... thanks so much for letting me know what's going on! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!
i just love you your words are so good so healing and clearfying thank you
This happens all the time w my birth parent. Dragon lady has all the reasons/excuses. She lives on word salad.
I said to my narcissistic wife that I don't feel appreciated, and she came back with "Oh so I always say the wrong things."
Not only invalidating my point, but making me defend her, when she was in the wrong to begin with.
I've had to totally grey-rock and direct her to long-term counselling.
Fantastic content 👍👍
My response is either "prove it" or "if that's what you want to believe."
Yes, my x told me what my words really meant 😒
And then attack me for thinking what he told me I thought
Excellent video, thank you!
Great video 💯🙌
Thank you 💝 shared love from Albuquerque.
Thank you! I think these management techniques will help me discern the narcissists from fellow imperfect but well meaning humans.
That has exactly happened to me so now I don’t want to have any conversation with the twisted brains cause there’s two of them in my life 😩
Very helpful 😊
"So, what you're saying is..." x 100, Cathy Newman.
So, what you're saying is: you hate people who use the strawman fallacy.
That made me laugh thank you 👍
Their tactics of these cowards always consists of strawman and ad hominem fallacies.
When I get a straw man thrown in my face, I try to tell them, Nice Try. Then I move on.
Spot on, as always xx
Wow, thank you, this is very helpful. This can be so frustrating & confusing I thought it was just a matter of poor perception on their part. I've gone through this so many times. Its aweful.
Also, I noticed Fox News uses this tactic very often. People fall for it, I just completely stopped watching Fox.
I often go with "you reveal more than you intend". Or, if they are really venomous, a simple "you embarrass yourself".
Do narcissist ask u questions every second of everyday? My one does, I try to keep my distance from this person as much as I can, they drain my energy and I can't help it, I always seem to react to there madness. Helppp
I have experienced this directly many times. Thank God we actually had logic courses in my university. It seems no one is taught logic anymore. I reccomend finding basic logic books and reading up for anyone watching this. It will help you pursue rational.conversation with others or if you are with a narcissist at least for your own sanity! You will see all the more clearly exactly what he is saying here and be able to consistently review in your own mind a logical premise for your own thought process and not be thrown off by the narcissists constant irrational and chaotic thought process. It is quite demonic actually. Think of how in the Bible the demonic responds to Jesus by constantly answering a question with a question. When you are relating to a person with either high levels of narcissism or NPD, they will most times create questions and word salads completely irrelevant to the point to create chaos and confusion. They love to also do this in front of others for an audience. Save yourself the time and confusion by either doing as he reccomended and simply repeating the original point or simply abandon the conversation by redirecting it! Because even if you manage to have a rational conversation with a narcissist, the probability is high that they are simply faking it to obtain some indirect reward anyway! Happy travels and remember, it is never to late to leave a narcissistic relationship! Jump.ship! You will be so glad you did!
Truths! My life is awesome now!!!! Jump ship even when you can’t see water because your odds of surviving with you mental and physical health is better than staying in a place when the narc will make sure to drown you and hold you under water with no mercy! They are truly sick!!!! I woke up one day and realized I was married to a complete stranger as they can live completely different lives that you have no idea of and it’s devastating!!! I was with one met him at 18 years of age divorced in my mid 40s and had no idea what the hell he was doing it was so elaborate how he turned everybody in my family against me and stuff . I had trust issues and he worked hard for me to build those trust issues with him bend over backwards for me to trust him for him to be the least trustworthy person I’ve ever met in my entire life. They would hand you over to a mass murderer rapist it will turnm people against you they will steal money from you go into your bank account they will tear your clothes up they will ruin them they will steal your clothes they will give your stuff to other women they will steal money from your parents! They are SICK!! RUN!!!
We made vows to God. And he’s not a piece of garbage. His behavior is not ok and I have hard boundaries. But I’m infuriated when he does this to me, luckily less frequently than ever because of boundaries. He’s often unlovable but he is trying a lot of the time. He wants to be better. I see improvements. Lots. We shouldn’t throw people away. God can help us all.
@@Portia620 wow. Mines not that bad. He does the lying and twisting and word salad once in a great while. He’s improving. I pray he keeps improving
I find that the straw man is usually inserted when someone is attempting to dictate the pace of the argument. They insert the straw man in the middle of a rant - then move on before it can be refuted - leaving the impression that it is true. You can use verbal 'stop signs' - to interupt their pace - with words like 'now' and 'so'.
"Now...(pause)...I don't think you understood what I actually said." - or - "So...(pause)...you seem to be misunderstanding what I actually said."
The 'stop sign' words interupt the pace quickly. The pause draws their attention in. You focus on their 'misunderstanding' (that it wasn't deliberate) then state that there was something different that was 'actually said'.
Intriguing. Now I understand what my husband does to me. We don't argue, we discuss. Happily married.
I just noticed all the star wars stuff in the background....😍
The best method of shutting down strawman and ad hominem attacks is
-to point out/ expose the obviousness of such attacks having occurred,
-identify/ reiterate the initial core structure of the original point/ argument,
-exploiting the distinction between the two,
-then highlighting the intended intentional effort to discredit and detract from the focal point of the issue at hand,
Primarily for the sole purpose to make the original speaker appear foolish or incorrect/ uneducated and therefore incompetent and thus inconsequential
*Don't respond to their version.*
Just say
"no, that's not what I said"
"no, you didn't listen to what I actually said"
Both are likely true.
The strawman has basis in law. Specifically Uniform Commercial Code. Lay persons call it a strawman but in terms of business code, the name in All Caps is defined under article 9-102(a)(71) as a registered organization. The All Caps name is required for all business entities, trusts, estates and corporations per UCC 1-201 (10) entitled "Conspicuous Format."
So this is what my x spouse was doing and my oldest daughter. Now i understand....
It happens people (in forums) “read between my lines”, and just have to answer that I just checked with a magnifying glass - there’s nothing written there.
I especially hate when people come up with pure and undiluted BS and I present fact or data and this factual information is twisted and thrown back at me with “So you are claiming/believing ….”.
Thank you.
Thank you
It's a breach of one's minds peace. Redeemable in law..
My narc spouse will say something, then say they didn't say it...🤔
I have had to say “ no my exact words were “ then repeat, on occasion more then once.
This was fabulous
Thank you Tegan. Hope you are well
@@DarrenFMagee Thank you Darren same to you!
Darren did you see Real Time with Bill Maher this past weekend 8/26/22? Check it out it's really funny; he put a literal life size straw man in the chair for " new rules." This description of yours is helpful and now I'll replay.
Just watched it thank you for sharing 👍
How do you handle someone living on a fixed budget, who asks, month after month after month to borrow from you (ALWAYS in this form: "I could really use a favor OR I really need a favor") in the 3rd week, but who also pays you back~? Suggesting and/or offering to help them budget hasn't worked. Saying no a few times hasn't worked. I think this person lives like this and does this to any newer friends, as well.
good video ✅
They love to twist what you say. Turning your statements into something else, Imply things with a new meaning and not the original. All in effort to make you look bad and smear you. This has happened to me a lot
The solution is to strawman back and make them defend themselves which takes the conversation back to the core point
Very thorongh presentation.
Factz
So what are they really saying when they wanted to borrow money? if you love me you'll do it for me. A good saying I had to reply was, "And if I really loved you I would be prepared to throw myself off Leeds Bridge just to prove how much I cared for you ". I will then say. Don't give me that crap and don't try and make me feel guilty for making a reasonable request. In other words, call the bastards out (please pardon my language)
The narcissist used this when I discarded them, reframing my words and then they self activated their rage tantrum
You are disrespecting me with your personal interpretation. What is your motive?
Good one! 👍
♥️
❤️🙏
I just say. "Obviously our view is different and I am getting off this merry go round.
I’ll never understand why people do this.
I do this a lot
no, gaslighting is when you're trying to make the person doubt the reality they witnessed, strawmanning is just trying to control how the conversation flows.
Call them out on it. Point out their vexatious claims and how they are disingenuous and purposefully misdirecting the conversation. Then tell them they are putting words in your mouth and making frivolous strawman arguments, and if they don't want to listen, then be gone.
Cathy Newman
An example, One of many...
Me: You've now stopped me seeing my child over 300 times insulting your own mates in your reasons aswell as accusing them to me of sleeping with me each time, Yet the only time i've ever spoken to any of your mates is when they come to me giving me lectures thinking it's me "not wanting to have him". (Evidence in messages)
Narc: Why are you so bothered about it if its them Im insulting? I bet you told them everything, How pathetic.
Me: No not at all. I just stood there and took the lectures and never even replied. You are insulting them to me with words and you are insulting me by stopping me seeing my child.
Narc: Wow whats wrong with my mates? Hows it an insult to you accusing you of sleeping with them?
They are all well to good for you anyway! Im gonna tell them all about this.
Avoids my whole issue!